Re: Nader & the Green Party (Maybe they should start calling him "angry")

[Jurriaan Bendien]

I think the problem with Nader's stance is that he's "against the
corporations" but that conceptualisation or theme is unlikely to be
successful, it's essentially no different than being "against the public
service".

J.

Re: Nader & the Green Party (Maybe they should start calling him "angry")

[jlwae3]

Fyi-  Why Ralph is running  
 Statement will be released at 10:00 a.m. EST on February 23, 2004
Live at Press Conference; Watch CSPAN-2 <http://www.cspan.org/> .
Check back here at that time for copy of the text.

http://www.votenader.org/
 
-jon



From: PEN-L list on behalf of Yoshie Furuhashi
Sent: Sun 2/22/2004 1:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L] Nader & the Green Party (Maybe they should start calling him "angry")



>Michael Hoover wrote:
>
>>'best' reason why nader shouldn't run is that he is stone cold bore...
>
>But at least he has the nerve to stand up to Communist Chinese
>tyranny and those corporate purveyors of porn to children!
>
>>perhaps he should go back to doing what he does best, what
>>mainstream (specifically, 'rational choice') poli sci people call
>>'political entrepreneur', takes lead in setting up and operating
>>groups, lets others 'free ride' to give appearance of broad-based
>>support, political activity akin to 'business decision', nader as
>>'founder' of interest group lobbies/'astroturf' political orgs is
>>'good investment', nader as candidate is 'bad investment'...
>
>He lost a lot of trial lawyer funding, according to Thomas Burke
>(check out my interview with him at
><http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Radio.html>; scroll down to the
>Dec 19 2002 show). They're steamed that he cost Gore the election
>(their perception, not mine).
>
>Doug

The 2000 Nader/Green Party presidential campaign was, financially, a
minus for Ralph Nader as an individual political entrepreneur but, in
terms of gains in votes, offices, etc., a plus for the Green Party as
a mass political party in the making.

The impact of the 2000 presidential campaign on Nader: "Public
Citizen, the biggest group Nader founded, lost 20 percent of its
membership and $1 million in donations after 2000" (Dick Meyer, "Run,
Ralph, Run,"
<http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/20/opinion/meyer/main601290.shtml>.

The impact of the 2000 presidential campaign on the Green Party:

The Green Party in 2000 didn't do as well as many Green voters hoped,
but it did receive nearly 3 million votes for its presidential ticket
-- quadrupling the Green votes between 1996 and 2000:

*   Green Party
Year  Pres. Candidate  VP CandidateTotal Votes
1996   Ralph Nader  Winona LaDuke 684,872
2000   Ralph Nader  Winona LaDuke   2,882,955

<http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/government/elections/president/timeline.htm>
*

According to former New Haven Green Alderman John Halle, "The 2000
Nader presidential run significantly enhanced the profile of the
Green Party.  The number of registered Greens since then has gone up
by a factor of four, I  believe, if not more.  There are also now
over 200 local officeholders, one of whom, the second highest elected
official in San Francisco nearly became mayor" (at
<http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20040216/003874.html>).

If the Howie Hawkins wing of the Green Party get their way, the Green
Party will nominate Nader as its presidential candidate again in
2004.  According to Hawkins, "Ralph would like the Green Party
nomination, but is running independent as 'insurance' because the
Greens aren't clear if and how they want to run a presidential
campaign and won't be until their June convention, too late for
ballot access reasons in many states" ("Nader Wants Green
Nomination," Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:51:41 -0500).  I recommend to John
Halle (to whom I am cc'ing this message) that the Green Party should
nominate Nader, unless Peter Camejo wants to run himself, which he
doesn't (and I have it on good authority that he doesn't).
--
Yoshie

* Bring Them Home Now! <http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/>
* Calendars of Events in Columbus:
<http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/calendar.html>,
<http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php>, & <http://www.cpanews.org/>
* Student International Forum: <http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/>
* Committee for Justice in Palestine: <http://www.osudivest.org/>
* Al-Awda-Ohio: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio>
* Solidarity: <http://www.solidarity-us.org/>

Re: Parties & Entrepreneurs (Maybe they should start calling him "angry")

[Michael Hoover]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/22/04 01:07PM >>>
It's a vicious circle: leftists who could have become charismatic
party intellectuals and organizers become political entrepreneurs
instead because there is no mass political party on the left, and it is
extremely difficult to create any mass political party on the left
because smart leftists become political entrepreneurs rather than help
organize such a party.
Yoshie
<>

social class position/orientation of such folks a factor...

while there have, no doubt, been 'political entrepreneurs' in past
(from left, center, and right), contemporary usage often traced to
so-called 'new politics movement' of 60s and 70s, upper-middle class
professionals and intellectuals who started/strengthened 'public
interest' groups such as common cause, sierra club, environmental
defense fund, physicians for social responsibilty, public citizen,
national organization for women, etc., etc...

early on in their 'careers', new politics people played important role
in environmental, consumer, occupational health/safety policies,
influencing media, congress, and judiciary, latter signigicant in that
new politics forces often took litigation route, using lawsuits to try
to get gov't agencies to act more vigorously...

approach eschews political organization in favor of  'grassroots
mobilization' which means lobby group calls on dues-paying members
throughout country to write their elected reps in support of group's
position...   michael hoover

Nader & the Green Party (Maybe they should start calling him "angry")

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

Michael Hoover wrote:

'best' reason why nader shouldn't run is that he is stone cold bore...
But at least he has the nerve to stand up to Communist Chinese
tyranny and those corporate purveyors of porn to children!
perhaps he should go back to doing what he does best, what
mainstream (specifically, 'rational choice') poli sci people call
'political entrepreneur', takes lead in setting up and operating
groups, lets others 'free ride' to give appearance of broad-based
support, political activity akin to 'business decision', nader as
'founder' of interest group lobbies/'astroturf' political orgs is
'good investment', nader as candidate is 'bad investment'...
He lost a lot of trial lawyer funding, according to Thomas Burke
(check out my interview with him at
; scroll down to the
Dec 19 2002 show). They're steamed that he cost Gore the election
(their perception, not mine).
Doug
The 2000 Nader/Green Party presidential campaign was, financially, a
minus for Ralph Nader as an individual political entrepreneur but, in
terms of gains in votes, offices, etc., a plus for the Green Party as
a mass political party in the making.
The impact of the 2000 presidential campaign on Nader: "Public
Citizen, the biggest group Nader founded, lost 20 percent of its
membership and $1 million in donations after 2000" (Dick Meyer, "Run,
Ralph, Run,"
.
The impact of the 2000 presidential campaign on the Green Party:

The Green Party in 2000 didn't do as well as many Green voters hoped,
but it did receive nearly 3 million votes for its presidential ticket
-- quadrupling the Green votes between 1996 and 2000:
*   Green Party
Year  Pres. Candidate  VP CandidateTotal Votes
1996   Ralph Nader  Winona LaDuke 684,872
2000   Ralph Nader  Winona LaDuke   2,882,955

*
According to former New Haven Green Alderman John Halle, "The 2000
Nader presidential run significantly enhanced the profile of the
Green Party.  The number of registered Greens since then has gone up
by a factor of four, I  believe, if not more.  There are also now
over 200 local officeholders, one of whom, the second highest elected
official in San Francisco nearly became mayor" (at
).
If the Howie Hawkins wing of the Green Party get their way, the Green
Party will nominate Nader as its presidential candidate again in
2004.  According to Hawkins, "Ralph would like the Green Party
nomination, but is running independent as 'insurance' because the
Greens aren't clear if and how they want to run a presidential
campaign and won't be until their June convention, too late for
ballot access reasons in many states" ("Nader Wants Green
Nomination," Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:51:41 -0500).  I recommend to John
Halle (to whom I am cc'ing this message) that the Green Party should
nominate Nader, unless Peter Camejo wants to run himself, which he
doesn't (and I have it on good authority that he doesn't).
--
Yoshie
* Bring Them Home Now! 
* Calendars of Events in Columbus:
,
, & 
* Student International Forum: 
* Committee for Justice in Palestine: 
* Al-Awda-Ohio: 
* Solidarity: 

Parties & Entrepreneurs (Maybe they should start calling him "angry")

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

Michael Hoover wrote:

perhaps he should go back to doing what he does best, what
mainstream (specifically, 'rational choice') poli sci people call
'political entrepreneur', takes lead in setting up and operating
groups, lets others 'free ride' to give appearance of broad-based
support, political activity akin to 'business decision', nader as
'founder' of interest group lobbies/'astroturf' political orgs is
'good investment', nader as candidate is 'bad investment'...
It's a vicious circle: leftists who could have become charismatic
party intellectuals and organizers become political entrepreneurs
instead because there is no mass political party on the left, and it
is extremely difficult to create any mass political party on the left
because smart leftists become political entrepreneurs rather than
help organize such a party.
And it's impossible to make a mass political party out of a
collection of confirmed political entrepreneurs, who are like
"potatoes in a sack of potatoes," to steal Marx's phrase.
--
Yoshie
* Bring Them Home Now! 
* Calendars of Events in Columbus:
,
, & 
* Student International Forum: 
* Committee for Justice in Palestine: 
* Al-Awda-Ohio: 
* Solidarity: 

Re: Maybe they should start calling him "angry"

[Doug Henwood]

Michael Hoover wrote:

'best' reason why nader shouldn't run is that he is stone cold bore...
But at least he has the nerve to stand up to Communist Chinese
tyranny and those corporate purveyors of porn to children!
perhaps he should go back to doing what he does best,
what mainstream (specifically, 'rational choice') poli sci people call
'political entrepreneur', takes lead in setting up and operating groups,
lets others 'free ride' to give appearance of broad-based support,
political activity akin to 'business decision', nader as 'founder' of
interest group lobbies/'astroturf' political orgs is 'good investment',
nader as candidate is 'bad investment'...
He lost a lot of trial lawyer funding, according to Thomas Burke
(check out my interview with him at
; scroll down to the
Dec 19 2002 show). They're steamed that he cost Gore the election
(their perception, not mine).
Doug

Re: Maybe they should start calling him "angry"

[dmschanoes]

Why do we care whether he runs or not?  Does it make a difference in
teasing apart the intertwined strands of the organs of power, the officals
of private, state, and trade union bureaucratic property?

I don't think it does.  Not one bit.

dms

Re: Maybe they should start calling him "angry"

[Michael Hoover]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/22/04 9:23 AM >>>
nader left few 'tracks' in 2000, will leave fewer in 2000, offers little
likelihood of developing social movement potential (factors all
irrespective of whether one thinks of him as 'traitor nader' re. 2000
or not)...   michael hoover

will leaver fewer in 2000 should, quite obviously, have read 2004...

Re: Maybe they should start calling him "angry"

[Michael Hoover]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/21/04 10:25 AM >>>
NY Times, February 21, 2004
Democrats United in Asking That Nader Not Enter Race
Some of Ralph Nader's best friends are desperately trying to persuade
him
not to run for president this year.
The left-leaning Nation magazine has pleaded in an open letter, "Don't
Run."
"As I said in 2000, he's one of the most stubborn men in America," said
Joan Claybrook, a close friend of his and head of Public Citizen, a
group
that Mr. Nader founded.
Louis Proyect
<>

'best' reason why nader shouldn't run is that he is stone cold bore...

perhaps he should go back to doing what he does best,
what mainstream (specifically, 'rational choice') poli sci people call
'political entrepreneur', takes lead in setting up and operating groups,
lets others 'free ride' to give appearance of broad-based support,
political activity akin to 'business decision', nader as 'founder' of
interest group lobbies/'astroturf' political orgs is 'good investment',
nader as candidate is 'bad investment'...

nader left few 'tracks' in 2000, will leave fewer in 2000, offers little
likelihood of developing social movement potential (factors all
irrespective of whether one thinks of him as 'traitor nader' re. 2000
or not)...   michael hoover

Maybe they should start calling him "angry"

[Louis Proyect]

NY Times, February 21, 2004
Democrats United in Asking That Nader Not Enter Race
By JIM RUTENBERG
Some of Ralph Nader's best friends are desperately trying to persuade him
not to run for president this year.
The left-leaning Nation magazine has pleaded in an open letter, "Don't
Run." And yesterday Senator John Kerry's campaign delivered a not-so-subtle
statement: "It is important that we remain united in November and rally
behind the Democratic nominee, whoever that may be."
The Kerry campaign's appeal was just one in another frenzy of calls
yesterday for Mr. Nader to sit this one out, prompted by the announcement
by a Nader aide that he would reveal his intentions Sunday.
Terry McAuliffe, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, said he
had met with Mr. Nader several times to ask him not to run. "I'm urging
everybody to talk to Ralph Nader," he said in a television interview Friday
on CNN.
Ever since Mr. Nader set up a presidential exploratory committee a couple
of months ago, Democrats have reacted viscerally to the idea. Many contend
that if he had not run in 2000 Al Gore would be president, and that Mr.
Nader could get in the way of a Democratic victory this year as well.
In January Mr. Nader said that he would make a run only if he were
convinced that he had enough money and volunteers to be credible. But close
associates of Mr. Nader said they feared that despite so much outcry
against a run - there is even a liberal Web site called RalphDontRun.net -
he may just make one.
"As I said in 2000, he's one of the most stubborn men in America," said
Joan Claybrook, a close friend of his and head of Public Citizen, a group
that Mr. Nader founded.
full: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/21/politics/campaign/21NADE.html

===

Nader's nadir
Even many of his former allies don't support maverick Ralph Nader's
presidential bid. And more mainstream Democrats aren't just mad -- they're
apoplectic.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Eric Boehlert
Feb. 21, 2004  |  Word that Ralph Nader will formally announce his plan to
run for president this weekend as an independent stirred harsh words and
emotions not just among Democrats, but even among the leftists and
independents who supported Nader four years ago. Facing an election that
they regard as the most crucial in decades, they're stunned and angry that
Nader has decided to reprise his third-party candidacy from 2000, which
played such a crucial role in siphoning votes away from then Vice President
Al Gore and handing the election to George W. Bush.
"It's hypocrisy of the highest level. It's egotism of the highest level.
It's dishonesty of the highest level to say 'I'm running as an
independent,' when all he's doing is helping elect Bush, and he knows it,"
says Elizabeth Holtzman, former New York City congresswoman and U.S.
district attorney. "He's nothing but a shill for George Bush. A shill,
period."
full: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/21/nader/index.html

Louis Proyect
Marxism list: www.marxmail.org