Re: IETF - Let's Get Started
Hi everybody, 2008/10/8 Ovid [EMAIL PROTECTED]: We understand what a lot of basic issues are, so let's get some traction on this. As the next thing we need is a group charter (if we already have one, and I just haven't noticed, ignore this e-mail), I've copied the charter format from RFC 2418 to make a skeleton charter at testanything.org: http://testanything.org/wiki/index.php/IETF_WG_Proposed_Charter Two small and one big question: 1. Who is/are going to be the chair(s)? 2. Which area of IETF are we under? You can see the list of areas at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/wg-dir.html. 3. We need to write a description of the problem being solved, and the objectives of this WG. I'll try coming up with a description tonight or tomorrow, but please feel free to beat me to it. cheers, Gaurav
IETF - Let's Get Started
I'm a bit disappointed that after all of our effort to get the TAP IETF process started, we have let it languish. I'd like to restart this effort. We understand what a lot of basic issues are, so let's get some traction on this. Background links: Initial proposal discussion: http://testanything.org/wiki/index.php/Initial_IETF_proposal_discussion Notes on the IETF process: http://testanything.org/wiki/index.php/TAP_at_IETF:_Notes Sign up for the IETF mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tap TAP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_Anything_Protocol Cheers, Ovid -- Buy the book - http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/ Tech blog- http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/ Twitter - http://twitter.com/OvidPerl Official Perl 6 Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6
IETF list? (was Re: JSON TAP Diagnostics?)
Ovid wrote: Folks, this really, really needs to go to the IETF list. What IETF list? -- Ahh email, my old friend. Do you know that revenge is a dish that is best served cold? And it is very cold on the Internet!
Re: IETF list? (was Re: JSON TAP Diagnostics?)
On 21 Aug 2008, at 23:37, Michael G Schwern wrote: What IETF list? https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tap -- Andy Armstrong, Hexten
Re: IETF
Ovid wrote: One issue Salve raised is that the IETF apparently requires *physical* meetings three times a year. Short of people individually ponying up the money, this suggests some form of sponsorship. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I roll to disbelieve. It seems not like the IETF to dictate the structure of a working group so rigidly. RFC 2418 [1] backs this up with things like there are few hard and fast rules on organizing or conducting working group activities and each working group will determine the balance of email and face-to-face sessions that is appropriate for achieving its milestones. All we should need is a mailing list and a bit of structure on top of that. You might be conflating the IETF's own rules [2] with the Working Group rules. [3] We'd be a Working Group. [1] ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2418.txt [2] http://www.ietf.org/tao.html#anchor10 [3] http://www.ietf.org/tao.html#anchor28 -- Robrt: People can't win Schwern: No, but they can riot after the game.
Re: IETF
(Now copying to appropriate lists, hence the response not being trimmed) --- On Mon, 18/8/08, Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ovid wrote: One issue Salve raised is that the IETF apparently requires *physical* meetings three times a year. Short of people individually ponying up the money, this suggests some form of sponsorship. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I roll to disbelieve. It seems not like the IETF to dictate the structure of a working group so rigidly. RFC 2418 [1] backs this up with things like there are few hard and fast rules on organizing or conducting working group activities and each working group will determine the balance of email and face-to-face sessions that is appropriate for achieving its milestones. All we should need is a mailing list and a bit of structure on top of that. You might be conflating the IETF's own rules [2] with the Working Group rules. [3] We'd be a Working Group. [1] ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2418.txt [2] http://www.ietf.org/tao.html#anchor10 [3] http://www.ietf.org/tao.html#anchor28 Schwern, I can't tell from reading the references you provide whether or what you're saying is correct, but I *think* so. Salve, can you comment on this? If we don't have to be physically present for such IETF meetings, that might help. Cheers, Ovid -- Buy the book - http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/ Tech blog- http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/ Twitter - http://twitter.com/OvidPerl Official Perl 6 Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6
Re: IETF
* Ovid [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-18 15:30]: Schwern, I can't tell from reading the references you provide whether or what you're saying is correct, but I *think* so. I think your initial mail was misleading and Schwern promptly misunderstood you. What Salve brought up is not that the *working group* needs to attend IETF meetings thrice yearly, but *the chairman* of the WG does. We’re talking about one person, the chair, not about the entire working group. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/
Re: IETF
--- On Mon, 18/8/08, Aristotle Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think your initial mail was misleading and Schwern promptly misunderstood you. What Salve brought up is not that the *working group* needs to attend IETF meetings thrice yearly, but *the chairman* of the WG does. Ah, yes. I think that's true (partially). As I recall the discussion, the person attending does not need to be the chairman, but merely someone who is intimately familiar with what's going on. If that's correct, one person, three times a year, would be required. Or I could be smoking crack. Cheers, Ovid -- Buy the book - http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/ Tech blog- http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/ Twitter - http://twitter.com/OvidPerl Official Perl 6 Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6
Re: IETF
Aristotle Pagaltzis said:
* Ovid [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-18 15:30]:
Schwern, I can't tell from reading the references you provide whether
or what you're saying is correct, but I *think* so.
I think your initial mail was misleading and Schwern promptly
misunderstood you. What Salve brought up is not that the *working group*
needs to attend IETF meetings thrice yearly, but *the chairman* of the
WG does.
We’re talking about one person, the chair, not about the entire
working group.
As I see it, The purpose of the IETF meetings are to give WG members
well-planned and regular opportunities for high-bandwidth discussions
about their issues. I haven't seen any requirements that WG Chairs MUST
attend these, but according to RFC 2418 section 6.1, it's the Chair's
responsibility to help the discussions move forward, including by
arranging BOFs at IETF meetings.
There are lots of details here I don't know about, so I propose we wait a
little with this discussion until we have the WG mailing list up and
running, where Lisa Dusseault and Chris Newman can answer questions like
these.
I've sent in the request for setting up the list now, and everyone who
voted +1 for list creation has been added already. :)
- Salve
--
#!/usr/bin/perl
sub AUTOLOAD{$AUTOLOAD=~/.*::(\d+)/;seek(DATA,$1,0);print# Salve Joshua Nilsen
getc DATA}$='};{';@_=unpack(C*,unpack(u*,':4@,$'.# [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
'2!--5-(50P%$PL,!0X354UC-PP%/0\`'.\n));eval {'@_'}; __END__ is near! :)
File/Line # (Was: IETF)
On Aug 18, 2008, at 02:53, Ovid wrote: Also, pulling in people developing TAP for things other than Perl would be good (such as David Wheeler's PostgreSQL work. That came up a few times as uri/line# diagnostic information isn't quite as applicable there). Well, it would be handy if I could get at it, because if I get an error in a .sql file, psql will tell me what line the error occurred on. I should ask if I can somehow get at that information dynamically. But I don't have file or line numbers in Test.Builder (JavaScript). I don't believe it's possible to get that info in JS, is it? Best, David
Re: File/Line # (Was: IETF)
--- On Mon, 18/8/08, David E. Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I don't have file or line numbers in Test.Builder (JavaScript). I don't believe it's possible to get that info in JS, is it? This is precicely part of the reason we want non-Perl implementations represented. The core idea behind file and line is not because we want file and line, but because we want developers (and tools) to be able to instantly find the test source which generated the error in question. This is why specifying uri in lieu of file is so useful. Cheers, Ovid -- Buy the book - http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/ Tech blog- http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/ Twitter - http://twitter.com/OvidPerl Official Perl 6 Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6
Re: File/Line # (Was: IETF)
On Aug 18, 2008, at 15:08, Ovid wrote: --- On Mon, 18/8/08, David E. Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I don't have file or line numbers in Test.Builder (JavaScript). I don't believe it's possible to get that info in JS, is it? This is precicely part of the reason we want non-Perl implementations represented. The core idea behind file and line is not because we want file and line, but because we want developers (and tools) to be able to instantly find the test source which generated the error in question. This is why specifying uri in lieu of file is so useful. URI? I don't have access to that, either. Best, David
Re: File/Line # (Was: IETF)
* David E. Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-18 19:25]: I don't believe it's possible to get that info in JS, is it? Just seen: http://eriwen.com/javascript/js-stack-trace/ Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/
