Re: Perl 6 Summary for week ending 20020728
On 1 Aug 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The mailing list archives are still not searchable (tell me about it), but Brent Dax points out that the ever wonderful Google has the site: keyword to do search restriction. I foresee a handy little autobookmark appearing on my galeon toolbar real soon now. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=perl.perl6 (via colobus (by Jim Winstead), colobus patches (by me) and Stanford NNTP (by Russ Allbery)). Stephen Rawls has a problem; Spamassassin thinks his patches are spam. Spamassassin didn't play nicely with 5.8.0RC1 which we used until yesterday when Robert upgraded it. 1 It's late. Don't worry about that. I'm sure I'm not the only one to really appreciate it, whenever it comes out. Thanks! Actually, feedback on this would be good; in general adding the links is the most time consuming and tedious part of writing the summaries, requiring a net connection and time to check the links. Which leads me to wonder if I can't write links as predictable google searches using the message-id. Time to experiment methinks. nntp.perl.org supports linking by message-id. -- ask bjoern hansen, http://askbjoernhansen.com/ !try; do();
Re: More 6PAN musings: local namespaces
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Damian Conway) writes: Larry has previously mentioned the prospect of Perl 6 module names being extended to include version number and author. Yes, we even talked about it extensively at the CPAN meeting in Monterey 2 years ago. =) -- ask bjoern hansen, http://askbjoernhansen.com/ !try; do();
Perl6/Parrot status
Hi, I am tired of people thinking that we are not getting anywhere at all, so if (some|any|every)one can send me a reasonably updated text for the Where are we section at http://www.parrotcode.org/ and likewise for http://dev.perl.org/perl6/status then I would most appreciate it. :-) - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do();
TPC5 Onion slides
Hi, I can't find Larry's slides from TPC5 online anywhere. Is it just me or what? :) - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than 100M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
Re: http://www.ora.com/news/vhll_1299.html
On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Sam Tregar wrote: [...] On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Adam Turoff wrote: Um, that's not what the article was talking about The proposal is to use an XML syntax to program in existing VHLL languages, including Perl. This would supposedly allow programmers to embed drawings as documentation my first thought was, =pod for xml resource image source visio3000.png /source /image /resource =cut - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do();
Re: list logs?
On Sun, 6 May 2001, Dan Brian wrote: Logs on archive.develooper.com for p6l and p5p haven't been written to since 4/27. I assume somebody is already looking at it, or updates are scheduled for longer periods than before? I haven't had time to get them updating again since I moved the perl.org mail to the new box. real soon now, real soon now. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do();
Re: Flexible parsing (was Tying Overloading)
On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Michael G Schwern wrote: Unfortunately, the perl6-language archive doesn't seem to go back far enough to cover the .perlrc discussion. Is the old archive still around? don't know which archive you are talking about, but http://archive.develooper.com/perl6-language%40perl.org/ should have all mails sent to perl6-language from it's start to a few days ago when I moved stuff around. http://archive.develooper.com/perl6-language%40perl.org/msg2.html - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than 100M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
string concatenation operator - please stop.
To me this whole thing looks like bike shedding at it's worst at this point. Please stop and read this http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING and possibly this http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=506636+517178+/usr/local/www/db/text/1999/freebsd-hackers/19991003.freebsd-hackers before writing more on the subject, huh? - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do();
Re: Parsing perl 5 with perl 6 (was Re: Larry's Apocalypse 1)
On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Tim Bunce wrote: [...] That beautiful code will be beautifully _open_ to _external_ extensions. And that is how I imagine that Perl 5 support should be implemented. Exactly. I am pretty sure that already at the meeting in Monterey someone suggested that Perl5 should be the first test of the language extension mechanism. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do();
Re: Apocalypse 1 from Larry
On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, A. C. Yardley wrote: 16 bdb Keep default Perl free of constraints such as warnings and strict. 73 adb All Perl core functions should return objects ^ [...] I might at some point add a ``d'' for Deferred, if I really think it's too soon to decide something. is already in effect? No. Read again. The two first flags was an a-f "grade". - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
Re: State of PDD 0
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote: I have created perl6-announce-pdd. Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for clues. by the way, Adam Turoff was kind and volunteered to take the PDD archive pumpkin like he was handling the bazillion RFC's. [EMAIL PROTECTED] will thus go to him now. Be sure to buy him an extra beer or three at TPC[1]. - ask [1] or just go and pick it up at the bar for him if they are free. :) -- ask bjoern hansen - http://ask.netcetera.dk/
Re: State of PDD 0
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Bryan C. Warnock wrote: On Tuesday 20 February 2001 17:38, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote: I have created perl6-announce-pdd. Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for clues. How should the submission process work? As for the RFC's? Can you confirm the actual submission address? Are we using perl-pdd? And did we want to make this Perl 6 specific, or Perl generic (like perl-qa is)? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] after sending the (unnumbered) PDD to perl6-internals and I will add it to the list. Will be changed when the PDD traffic gets higher. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://ask.netcetera.dk/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
Re: RFC 39 (v3) Perl should have a print operator
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Bart Lateur wrote: Those are not the semantics of print. It returns true (1) if successful, and false (undef) otherwise. You cannot change that. If I write print "0", it bloody well shan't be returning false. Oh, why not? Does anybody actually *ever* check the return value of print? I think it's not as if we'd break a lot of code. uh, what? you don't do much socket programming now, do you? sockets breaks all the time. Disks runs out of space while you write to files. and so on and so on. Problem is: if you need defined() to see if the print was succesful, you cannot return what was printed as well. It's one thing or the other. So you cannot have it both ways. I really don't understand why you want to have what's printed. If you need it in a variable, you can just make the variable first and then print. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
Re: RFC 39 (v3) Perl should have a print operator
On 8 Sep 2000, Chaim Frenkel wrote: Oh, why not? Does anybody actually *ever* check the return value of print? I think it's not as if we'd break a lot of code. ABH uh, what? you don't do much socket programming now, do you? sockets ABH breaks all the time. Disks runs out of space while you write to ABH files. and so on and so on. Could someone enlighten this poor soul and tell me what I _can_ do with an error return from a print or close? rollback transactions to the database, flag the thing you tried to do as something that should be retried, close and reopen the socket connection and try again, send a mail to the NOC that the world is on fire, etcetera, etcetera ... Tim always refers to http://search.cpan.org/doc/TIMB/DBI_Talk4_2000/sld024.htm Reporting it may be useless (disk full). eh? I like to get someone aware of it so the problem can be fixed. I also like my application to stop doing whatever it tried to do and if possibly know what it didn't do so it can try it again later. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
new list: perl6-language-regex
subscribe by sending mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] more details at http://dev.perl.org/lists LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CHAIR: Mark-Jason Dominus [EMAIL PROTECTED] MISSION:Draft and discuss RFCs related to regexp language issues in Perl 6. Report weekly to Language WG. DEADLINE: September 30th (semi-permanent sublist) - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
new list: perl6-language-data@perl.org
subscribe by sending mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] more information at http://dev.perl.org/lists LIST: perl6-language-data CHAIR: Jeremy Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] MISSION:Discuss and draft RFCS for Perl 6 language features related to the Perl Data Language (PDL) and numeric Perl in general. Report weekly to the Language WG. DEADLINE: September 30th - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
Re: Permanent sublists (was Re: Language WG report, August 16th2000)
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Peter Scott wrote: [...] Ask, can you change the deadlines on these lists to be "as long as it takes" or similar? Sorry I didn't chime in earlier, but I would like to say that I prefer published deadlines. Reason: people will talk for as long as you give 'em. However long a meeting is scheduled for, that's how long it will take. We're already reaching the point of diminishing returns in several discussions IMHO; if we let 'em drag on forever they may turn ugly. Something like that was also the original intention for having "deadlines" (shamelines) in the first place. They should be used not as "uhu, the time is up. We gotta stop so there won't be any IO in perl6" but rather as "hey, we hit the date again. If we haven't gotten anything done we probably did something wrong and should think about how it is we're trying to reach the goal". - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
Re: RFC 97 (v1) prototype-based method overloading
On 14 Aug 2000, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote:
This and other RFCs are available on the web at
http://dev.perl.org/rfc/
=head1 TITLE
prototype-based method overloading
=head1 VERSION
Maintainer: David Nicol [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 14 Aug 2000
Version: 1
Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Number: 97
=head1 ABSTRACT
When I read the chapter on OO in the second edition camel book I
was saddened that C++ style method overloading was not explicitly
described. Ever hopeful, I wrote some quick code that I hoped would
do what I meant and discovered that it didn't. This document is
an attempt to remedy the situation.
=head1 SUMMARY
$frog_t = qs(frog);
sub listargs($){ print "One arg, $_[0]"}
sub listargs($$){ print "Two args, $_[0] and $[1]"}
sub listargs($$frog_t){ print "$_[0] and a frog $[1]"}
sub listargs { throw argsyntax, "odd arguments to listargs" }
my frog $k = new frog(type=tree);
listargs("franz","tree"); # prints "Two args..."
listargs("franz",$k); # prints "franz and ..."
listargs($k,"franz"); # throws an argsyntax error
=head1 DESCRIPTION
It it now possible to define two subroutines with the same
name but different interfaces without error. Perl will puzzle
out which one to call in a given situation based on lexical
information available in the program text.
Defining two subroutines with both the same name and the same calling
interface is undefined and may be an error. This may change.
No coercion protocol is defined at this time.
This document will be updated as a protocol for coercing
function calls with arguments that don't explicitly match is
developed, such as having a method name (which is now
distinct from a method, but still a strong grouping characteristic)
have a "coercion" method associated with it which would
indicate what to do if no prototypes matched.
For now, for the greatest ease
for implementors, calls to method Cfoo that exactly match none of the
prototypes of defined subroutines named Cfoo
will fall through to a Cfoo with no prototype, should one exist.
Programmers using this feature are advised to include a full coercion
system into their unprototyped methods, when writing in a strongly typed
environment.
=head1 IMPLEMENTATION
At compile time, the keys in the big hash (be it global or per-package
or per-class) that holds the mapping from the names of the classes
to their coderefs is extended to include the prototype as part of the
name of each method. The nature of this extension is beyond the
scope of this document.
=head1 REFERENCES
RFC 57: Subroutine prototypes and parameters
RFC 61: Interfaces for linking C objects into perlsubs
RFC 75: first class interface definitions
Programming Perl, 2ed
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Re: RFC 98 (v1) context-based method overloading
yOn 14 Aug 2000, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote:
This and other RFCs are available on the web at
http://dev.perl.org/rfc/
=head1 TITLE
context-based method overloading
=head1 VERSION
Maintainer: David Nicol [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 14 Aug 2000
Version: 1
Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Number: 98
=head1 ABSTRACT
The other way C++ allows you to overload a named function is
by return type. This document is a companion piece to
a similarly named one about protoypes. It replaces old Perl's
"wantscalar" and "wantarray" kluges, which can now be deprecated,
with a cleaner interface allowing decisions which are possible to
make at compile time to be made then.
=head1 DESCRIPTION
Defining multiple subroutines with both the same name and the same calling
interface that explicitly return items of differing types is now
allowed. subject to the following:
=over
=item compile-time
the return-type expectation of all method calls meaning to take advantage
of this feature must be clear from explicit type tags available at compile time.
=item what constitutes a context?
We are familiar with "scalar context" and "array context" from perl5 and
previous. Perl6 gives us user-defined contexts as well as user defined
types or all sorts. Any unique string can be a context, for the purposes
of context-based method overloading, and Perl will attempt to guess a
reasonable base class for the given "context." Use of undeclared context
specifiers will of course generate warnings.
=item interaction with prototype-based and traditional overloading
A traditional perlsub may be considered the simultaneous
definition of two routines,
C$ sub(PROTO){body} and
C@ sub(PROTO){body}.
It is now possible to differentiate between these two explicitly.
=item guaranteed sane values
The return context is considered before considering the types of the
arguments, and in the case of no exact match, the fallback is to a
default method defined to work in the given context rather than to
the default method for the name, should one exist.
=item specification incomplete
Further points to discuss and agree on include the relation of this
mechanism to inheritance, and multiple inheritance, and the meta-alteration
of all aspects of the mechanism.
=back
=head1 IMPLEMENTATION
At compile time, the keys in the big hash (be it global or per-package
or per-class) that holds the mapping from the names of the classes
to their coderefs are further extended to include,
as well as the prototype,
the declared type of the return values, when specified,
as part of the
name of each method.
=head1 REFERENCES
RFC 21: Replace Cwantarray with a generic Cwant function
RFC 57: Subroutine prototypes and parameters
RFC 61: Interfaces for linking C objects into perlsubs
RFC 75: first class interface definitions
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new lists: perl6-language-flow, perl6-language-io and perl6-language-unlink
WORKING GROUP: perl6-language-flow CHAIR: uri guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] MISSION: Draft, discuss, and revise RFCs relating to flow control in Perl 6, eg switch/case, looping, etc. Suggest/request other flowcontrol-related lists if appropriate DEADLINE: 3 weeks, extensible on request (end 26th August?) DESCRIPTION: Submit flowcontrol-related RFCs to the Perl 6 librarian as they are developed. WORKING GROUP: perl6-language-unlink CHAIR: Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] MISSION: Discuss and redraft RFC 29. Draft and discuss an opposing RFC *or* rename RFC 29 to "ways of dealing with unlink()" and discuss various viewpoints. DEADLINE: 1 week (end August 12th) DESCRIPTION: Submit redrafted RFC 29 to perl6-language. Optionally submit opposing RFC. WORKING GROUP: perl6-language-io CHAIR: Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] MISSION: Draft and discuss I/O related RFCs, including (but not limited to) RFCs 14 and 30. DEADLINE: 3 weeks, extensible on request (end August 26) DESCRIPTION: Submit I/O related RFCs to the Perl 6 librarian as they are developed. -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
new list: perl6-language-strict
subscription information at http://dev.perl.org/ WORKING GROUP: perl6-language-strict CHAIR: J. David Blackstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daniel Chetlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] MISSION:Discuss the use of the strict pragma in Perl 6 DEADLINE: 18 August 2000 DESCRIPTION:Redrafted versions of Perl RFCs 6 and 16, sent to the librarian and hence to the perl6-language list - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
new list: perl6-language-subs
more details at http://dev.perl.org/lists.shtml WORKING GROUP: perl6-language-subs CHAIR: Tim Jenness [EMAIL PROTECTED] Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] (if he wants it) MISSION: Draft, discuss, and revise RFCs relating to subroutines in Perl 6, eg named parameters, want(), prototyping DEADLINE: 3 weeks, extensible on request (end 25th August?) DESCRIPTION: Submit subroutine-related RFCs to the Perl 6 librarian as they are developed. -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
Re: RFC stuff
On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Simon Cozens wrote: Is there an open NNTP server running with all these as the perl.* groups? That would help a lot. It would, yes. I've been toying with the idea of setting one up, but I think it should be news.perl.org Russ talked about doing that. I think it would have to be called nntp.perl.org. Ask, are you busy enough yet? :) Just about. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
new list: perl6-language-mlc
subscribe information and more at: http://tmtowtdi.perl.org/ List name: perl6-language-mlc Chair: Michael J. Mathews [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charter:Discuss and redraft the multiline comments RFC Timescale: 1 week (end Thursday 10th August) Deliverables: Michael to post the redrafted RFC back to perl6-language - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
