RE: Underscores v Hyphens (Was: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul)
-Original Message-
From: Smylers [mailto:smyl...@stripey.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:20 AM
To: perl6-language@perl.org
Subject: Re: Underscores v Hyphens (Was: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32]
backtraces
overhaul)
Moritz Lenz writes:
Am 23.08.2011 10:46, schrieb Damian Conway:
... why hidden_from_backtrace instead of hidden-from-backtrace?
... low-level things are spelled with underscores, while we reserve
the minus character for user-space code.
So the idea is that if Perl 6 has an identifier zapeth_clunk itself that
leaves zapeth-clunk free to be used by developers to mean something
else?
Is that something we want to enable?
Code with identifiers that differ only in word separators sounds like it
would be most confusing to maintain. Are there specific circumstances in
which it would be useful?
[snip]
This feature came about (along with Larry's generalization to include 's)
in response to a question I posed back around 2008 (IIRC) about the
feasibility of a P6 module to allow hyphens in identifiers.
(BTW, I frequently mix hyphens with underscores to make space-free file
names with hyphenated dates, hyphenated words, and so on. But I wouldn't
want hyphens and underscores treated as equivalent, just as I wouldn't want
upper and lowercase letters treated as equivalent. Then again, use strict;
is my friend, so I don't anticipate non-trivial problems with such sorts
non-equivalences. YMMV.)
Here is a reply of mine to an old thread on this topic; others have
independently expressed somewhat similar sentiments.
===
[Sun 4/11/2010 12:45 AM]
From: Mark J. Reed [mailto:markjr...@gmail.com]
[...]
Perl borrows vocabulary almost exclusively from English, but it is
not English, and its conventions are not those of English. (And the
conventions around hyphens that people are citing are quite specifically
those of standard written English; other writing systems, even those using
the same alphabet and mostly the same punctuation, have different rules).
Consider s/English/Linux/ for example. :-)
One consideration leading up to allowing - in P6 identifiers (initially in
the context of an optional syntax-tweaking module) involved compatibility
with fairly common usage in {directory and file} names (where spaces are
avoided for cross-platform reasons). I've always thought {Lisp variable
names and Unix/Linux file names} with hyphens (versus underscores) were
{more readable and substantially easier to type (during long typing
sessions)}.
http://groups.google.com/group/perl.perl6.language/browse_thread/thread/1625
baa7eead0d71/
http://groups.google.com/group/perl.perl6.compiler/browse_thread/thread/e6cc
5dc9360ada36/c59f2fb1f49b80f5?lnk=gstq=r28689#c59f2fb1f49b80f5
I would personally like to see hyphens used as the standard word
separator,
with underscores available for exceptions - say, naming a Perl interface
method exactly the same as the underlying C function it provides access
to.
[...]
++!
===
Best Regards,
Conrad
Conrad Schneiker
www.AthenaLab.com
RE: underscores vs hyphens (was Re: A new era for Temporal)
From: Mark J. Reed [mailto:markjr...@gmail.com]
[...]
Perl borrows vocabulary almost exclusively from English, but it is
not English, and its conventions are not those of English. (And the
conventions around hyphens that people are citing are quite specifically
those of standard written English; other writing systems, even those using
the same alphabet and mostly the same punctuation, have different rules).
Consider s/English/Linux/ for example. :-)
One consideration leading up to allowing - in P6 identifiers (initially in
the context of an optional syntax-tweaking module) involved compatibility with
fairly common usage in {directory and file} names (where spaces are avoided for
cross-platform reasons). I've always thought {Lisp variable names and
Unix/Linux file names} with hyphens (versus underscores) were {more readable
and substantially easier to type (during long typing sessions)}.
http://groups.google.com/group/perl.perl6.language/browse_thread/thread/1625baa7eead0d71/
http://groups.google.com/group/perl.perl6.compiler/browse_thread/thread/e6cc5dc9360ada36/c59f2fb1f49b80f5?lnk=gstq=r28689#c59f2fb1f49b80f5
I would personally like to see hyphens used as the standard word separator,
with underscores available for exceptions - say, naming a Perl interface
method exactly the same as the underlying C function it provides access to.
[...]
++!
Best regards,
Conrad
Conrad Schneiker
www.AthenaLab.com
RE: Logo considerations
Here's my latest suggestion:
http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm
It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below)
and Ross Kendall's suggestions at
(http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas).
For a smaller sized Rakudo logo,
just remove the text between the proposed Perl 6 logo
and the Parrot logo.
The proposed Perl 6 logo is a coronene molecule
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronene).
PS: Suggested {Perl6, Parrot, Parrot languages, and CXAN}
ecosystem slogan: brainware of the semantic web.
Best regards,
Conrad
Conrad Schneiker
www.AthenaLab.com
-Original Message-
From: Damian Conway [mailto:dam...@conway.org]
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:40 AM
To: Conrad Schneiker
Cc: Perl6
Subject: Re: Logo considerations
Conrad Schneiker suggested:
Graphene has amazing electron transport characteristics due to quantum
effects (including superimposed wave-functions), and manifests
pseudo-relativistic phenomena:
I really love the various graphene connotations.
However, the proposed logo needs to be much simpler and more abstract.
Logos that combine text and symbols rarely work well.
Maybe just something like one of the attached graphics (only redone by someone
with actual graphical design skills ;-)?
The slogan under the suggested logo is an attempt to update the
venerable Perl [5] is the duck tape of the web slogan to Rakudo
(Perl 6 on Parrot VM) is the braintricity of the web.
Not so keen on braintricity; though it does lead to other ideas.
For example, perhaps we could update:
Perl 5 is the duct tape of the internet
to:
Perl 6 is the neurotransmitter of the semantic web
;-)
Damian
RE: Logo considerations
-Original Message-
From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:conrad.schnei...@gmail.com]
Here's my latest suggestion:
http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm
It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below)
and Ross Kendall's suggestions at
(http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas).
For a smaller sized Rakudo logo,
just remove the text between the proposed Perl 6 logo
and the Parrot logo.
The proposed Perl 6 logo is a coronene molecule
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronene).
PS: Suggested {Perl6, Parrot, Parrot languages, and CXAN}
ecosystem slogan: brainware of the semantic web.
Forgot to mention that (per Larry's suggestions)
you could also regard the Perl 6 logo as a
stylized flower, and you could round the
outer corners a bit to soften the logo.
Best regards,
Conrad
Conrad Schneiker
www.AthenaLab.com
RE: Logo considerations
From: Guy Hulbert [mailto:gwhulb...@eol.ca] On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 11:38 -0700, Conrad Schneiker wrote: Here's my latest suggestion: http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below) and Ross Kendall's suggestions at (http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas). For a smaller sized Rakudo logo, just remove the text between the proposed Perl 6 logo and the Parrot logo. For the small logo, you could super-impose the Parrot on top of the molecule ... and for pugs: http://www.bnpositive.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/starwars-pugs.jpg That's awful! And outrageously hilarious. The Yoda image + molecule (aka hexa-flower) gets my vote for Pugs (although it's not my decision to make). Best regards, Conrad Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com
Recommended Perl 6 best practices?
Is there something more up-to-date concerning Perl 6 best practices that are presently-recommended (by p6l or @Larry) than the following item on the Perl 6 wiki? http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_books_and_media Perl 5 Books with Perl 6 Relevance * Perl Best Practices by Damian Conway. Even though this currently applies to Perl 5, most of the principles also apply to Perl 6. This book is the semi-officially recommended guideline for people developing core Perl 6 modules and tests. Until the Perl 6 version of Perl Best Practices is (hopefully) available a year or 2 from now, would it meanwhile be useful to create a Perl 6 wiki page devoted to this subject, which would be linked to this documentation page (among others)? http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?documentation Best regards, Conrad Schneiker http://www.athenalab.com/ www.AthenaLab.com Official Perl 6 Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6
RE: [svn:parrot] r28689 - trunk/languages/perl6/t (- versus _)
Moritz Lenz wrote (on perl6-compiler)
Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
+S02-builtin_data_types/num.t
S02-builtin_data_types/type.t
S02-literals/autoref.t
S02-literals/hex_chars.t# pure
S02-literals/radix.t
S02-polymorphic_types/subset-code.t # pure
S02-polymorphic_types/subset-range.t
+S03-operators/assign-is-not-binding.t
S03-operators/autoincrement.t # pure
S03-operators/comparison.t
S03-operators/context.t
In the test suite, could we perhaps aim for some
consistency on the use of hyphens versus underscores,
or at least articulate when one is used versus the other?
For example, assign-is-not-binding.t versus hex_chars.t
in the above.
Personally I vastly prefer hyphens to underscores,
Same here. Since the directly names already match m/^S\d\d-/ I'll
assume
that will be our standard.
but I
suspect people have good reasons for preferring underscores.
One reason (probably not a good one) is to use the same
convention as programming language variable names (which is
typically more of a CamelCase versus not_Camel_case issue).
Likewise, I suspect some people would also prefer hyphens to
either {underscores or CamelCase} in variable names as well (as
in Lisp).
So would a user-supplied Perl 6 syntax-morphing module to allow
use of embedded-hyphens in variable names (and other names, such
as labels and subs) to Perl 6 (with minimally-sane adjustments
needed to make hyphen-related operator parsing unambiguous) be
reasonably feasible? Or does this open a messy Pandora's box of
cascading language-redesign kludges?
(I suspect similar issues came up in language design discussions,
but my initial searches didn't turn up anything directly
relevant.)
Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker
www.AthenaLab.com
Official Perl 6 Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6
Official Parrot Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot
Awesome Cross the Finish Line Rakudo Perl 6 Grant
This is the new addition near top of Perl 6 wiki to thank Ian Hague (and to help counter public skepticism about the prospects of Perl 6): Awesome Cross the Finish Line grant for Rakudo Perl 6 Thank you Ian Hague! * See TPF receives large donation in support of Perl 6 developmentlink. * This should see us through the first official early production-level release of Rakudo Perl 6. * Please consider following Ian's example. ** There's still a lot of additional valuable support work that could also be done on Perl 6, Parrot, key Perl 6 CPAN modules, and so on. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 Official Parrot Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot
Perl 6 Donors, Sponsors, and Supporters on Perl 6 Wiki (Thanks Ian Hague and Vienna.pm!)
With Ian Hague's great donation, plus recent support from the Vienna.pm, it seemed like time to create a separate wiki page for such things: http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_donors_sponsors_and_sup porters I've also added a prominent link to this from near the top of the Perl 6 wiki front page, among other places. Please help reward our sponsors and stimulate others by spreading this link around whenever appropriate opportunities arise. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 Official Parrot Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot
Fundraising follow-up
Pleases direct follow-ups to just perl6-users. Its been about a month and a half since the first time that I brought up the topic of fundraising. So I want to find out what the prospects are of decisively resolving the earmarked funding issue within The Perl Foundation any time soon. Otherwise, I would like to take the initiative to set up a Parrot Platform Foundation specifically to handle earmarked grants for Rakudo, the Parrot VM, C6PAN, and any other Perl 6 projects of interest, such as SMOP. (I want to avoid using Perl in the Foundation's name, to avoid any confusion with TPF.) I know that others have differing strong opinions and grand visions on how they want things to be done. That fine. In the mean time, I want to pursue several more modest and presently-available opportunities for supporting Perl 6 developers, which are presently falling through the cracks. TIMTOWTDI. You know what I want for Christmas. The clock is ticking. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 Official Parrot Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot
RE: Fundraising follow-up
Richard, That's great news! (The time to get an answer wasn't an issue per se, but whether and when any answer at all might be forthcoming, especially given the previously expressed concerns and doubts of others that a positive answer would likely result. Under such conditions, it would be pointless to wait in the dark for 3, 6, 9, or whatever more months, instead of pursuing other options.) For purposes of earmarked development grants, does TPF prefer and recommend http://www.thepoint.com/ to channel earmarked donations to TPF? Or would it be best to wait a little longer for more conclusive TPF discussions on this? In this context, 2 specific cases of interest from past discussions are: (1) Getting 10 $500 commitments to fund chromatic's proposed month of intensive Parrot project work. (2) Providing a means to arrange (some number of) monthly contributions to fund ruoso's proposed work on SMOP's runtime. Once the means to handle these 2 paradigm cases is in place, a lot of useful work could be handled by replicating these cases with suitable substitutions of numbers, people, and tasks. I am certainly interested in helping with setting this up, if there's something useful I can do. (And of course, once this is set up, I am still interested in soliciting donations along such lines.) Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com http://www.athenalab.com/ Official Perl 6 Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 Official Parrot Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Dice Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:29 PM To: Conrad Schneiker Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; perl6-language@perl.org Subject: Re: Fundraising follow-up Conrad, Regarding targeted, earmarked funding - I have investigated the legalities, tax implications, etc. of what is involved. The result of my investigation is that it is do-able within the construct of TPF. The other question is one of creation of a technical platform for implementing this. There is a discussion within TPF of how we might accomplish this, or how it might otherwise be accomplished. For instance, one member of TPF pointed out that http://www.thepoint.com/ already exists and could provide the necessary infrastructure. So if the goal is (and only is) to connect Perl 6 developers with funding collected from various sources piggybacking off of this site could be the easiest way. My concern and the concern of TPF is maximum and best possible support of Perl, including Perl 6, given our resource limitations. I try to direct my time to what can be best accomplished in that context. This particular matter has received considerable attention, but so have other matters in the past 6 weeks as well. It seems to me that you too are energetic in your support of Perl 6 and have capability in this regard. If there is a project that you think you can devote attention to in such a way that the likelihood of success is maximized while not incurring the trouble of having anyone else on the critical path of the project plan then I would not want you to feel encumbered by TPF or anyone else. I think the main thing that TPF can offer is a legal structure: we have experience in meeting world-wide tax code requirements (as various countries will look upon grants of this kind as being income), and we have experience dealing with Things Going Wrong, including legal council identified and retained, insurance policies, limited liability of directors of the corporation, and similar. These things are important in Real Life and they are difficult and costly to replicate. Something I would ask you to consider is that 1.5 months _is not_ a lot of time, _especially_ for a volunteer organization. If that isn't going to work for you then I understand; there's a lot to be said for individual JDFI, which can be very efficient. But it doesn't scale into certain realms. Maybe this is one of those realms, maybe it isn't. The plan currently under discussion within TPF is the one written up by Richard Hainsworth on March 11, with body beginning Richard Dice covered some crucial questions below. I will email Karen Pauley, the new TPF Steering Committee chair, with your email address. If this matches the kind of program you are interested in then maybe you could be the implementation volunteer on the TPF version of the project? Cheers, - Richard On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Conrad Schneiker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pleases direct follow-ups to just perl6-users. It's been about a month and a half since the first time that I brought up the topic of fundraising. So I want to find out what the prospects are of decisively resolving the earmarked funding issue within The Perl Foundation any time soon. Otherwise, I would like to take the initiative to set up a Parrot Platform Foundation specifically to handle earmarked grants for Rakudo, the Parrot VM, C6PAN
RE: Perl 6 fundraising and related topics.
From: Gabor Szabo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 2:04 PM On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Dave Rolsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, Joshua Gatcomb wrote: I am mostly ignoring the rest of what others have said in this thread because I think it is detracting from your intention of getting money to people to work more. Here is one thing that has frustrated me about TPF. They are a non-profit organization. Yeah, kind of suprising that would be the frustrating thing. The issue is that they can't take money from Bob to give to Sue to work on Bob's widget. This is an extreme oversimplification but in general, they have to abide by the rules that allow them to keep their non-profit status. Where am I going with this? This doesn't make any sense to me. There's nothing about being a nonprofit that prevents TPF from accepting donations targeted to a specific program. There's a bit of accounting overhead to make it happen, but it's perfectly legal and in keeping with TPF's 501c3 status and its mission. I don't know but I think I was told at least once that TPF cannot handle donations targeted to a specific person. That might of course be different then targeting at specific program, I am not familiar what 501c3 means. Personally - and there might be few others - I'd be much more comfortable to give money to a specific target or person than to a general pool. What I was hoping for a long time is to be able to give a modest amount on a monthly basis. Currently AFAIK TPF can only accept stand alone payments. IMHO many people in the community would be ready to give 5-10-20 USD/month but it would be much harder to get them give 100 or 200 USD once a year. How hard would it be to enable (Paypal?) recurring monthly payments to TPF? How hard would it be to allow people to target their money to a specific project/person? TPF can then still focus on raising money from corporations. Good ideas/questions. TIMTOWTDI. A couple of quick comments (for everyone): (1) Richard Dice (TPF) recently left for a week of $work travel and might not be able to reply for a while, so please be patient and considerate. (2) Please direct all follow-ups to just the perl6-users list. My apologies to others with likewise-cluttered in-boxes for neglecting to request this in my initial post. Meanwhile, thanks for everyone's suggestions. I'm sure that we'll eventually see some major improvements, one way or another. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 - Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot - Official Parrot Wiki
RE: Perl 6 fundraising and related topics.
On Thursday 21 February 2008 06:25:42 Joshua Gatcomb wrote: On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:23 PM, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I could take a month's sabbatical from my day job for $5000 without losing insurance coverage or other benefits. That's slightly more than Audrey's $100/day, I know, but it's substantially less than my consulting rate and somewhat less than my salary too. I could probably make 100 - 150 high-quality commits to Parrot in that 30 day period. Perhaps more. I'm probably not the only Parrot/Perl 6 hacker in this situation. I was beginning to wonder if my post to the thread had gotten eaten. Thanks for replying. I probably didn't do a good job of tying the two portions of my reply together, but if I were to go to the donation page and I saw Project: Allow chromatic for 1 month to work exclusively on parrot Deliverables (if applicable): 100 - 150 high quality commits Required: $5000 Current: $0 I would be very inclined to make a donation. In fact, if you can find 9 other people willing to do so - I will cut a check for $500 any time you are ready. That's besides the point. Not to me it isn't. :-) Count me in as person #1 of the 9 others. I don't believe just getting more money is the solution. I think we need to do a number of things: 1. Identify people, like you, who are in a position to trade time for money and the projects they will work on 2. Allow people to choose where their money will go (if that's what they want to do) 3. Do it in a way that causes the least amount of fighting Good ideas. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot Official Parrot Wiki
RE: Perl 6 fundraising and related topics.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 1:24 AM Whilst debating issues like parrot vs pugs, or single-track vs parellel track development, can be quite interesting, especially if it induces Larry to compare straight lines to mountains and railroads, it is likely to be more useful to have suggestions like chromatic's - 1month of dedicated work for $5000. How about adding a page to one of the web sites where offers of help, time and expense, can be made? Very good idea. ++ Any takers? I would, but my internet connectivity is severely constrained atm. That will change from April 15th on, if noone made it until then, I'll do. But it would be shame to wait that long ;-) We have the Perl 6 wiki. That might be a good way to set up a preliminary version. I could help out this weekend, but right now I've got to catch up on sleep and $work. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot Official Parrot Wiki
RE: Perl 6 fundraising and related topics.
From: Geoffrey Broadwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:20 PM On Thu, 2008-02-21 at 18:45 -0500, Joshua Gatcomb wrote: On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:23 PM, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. Allow people to choose where their money will go (if that's what they want to do) Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that this can't be done directly because of rules surrounding TPF's non-profit status. Someone else pointed out the problems with TPF officers benefitting directly from the donations, even though some of the current and former TPF officers would be great candidates for support. Which made me think ... wasn't this why Mozilla created a corporation? Personally, I think it's ridiculous that a non-profit can't be an umbrella facilitator for directed donations (if that is in fact the case). But if that is really the way of things, can TPF go the Mozilla route to break the logjam? Or could we even just go to that Mozilla corporation? Given that Mozilla is a Perl 6 supporter, would they be willing to handle earmarked Perl 6 donations in lieu of TPF (for a limited time, say 2 years)? Their major name recognition as a solid entity could be very helpful in attracting major donations prior to Perl 6's first production release. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot Official Parrot Wiki
Perl 6 fundraising and related topics.
During the course of collecting material for the Perl 6 wiki section on Perl 6 articles and presentations (http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_articles_and_presentat ions), I've repeatedly encountered remarks about how much Perl 6 development is constrained by the fairly severe time and energy constraints of its overwhelmingly volunteer development team. So over the next few months, I'm planning to learn about fundraising, and see what I can accomplish on behalf of Perl 6 development. To that end, I'm soliciting: (1) your suggestions for preparation, (2) your ideas for proposals, and (3) your reasons why the Perl 6 ecosystem (including Parrot and CPAN6) is one of the world's greatest and and most extremely leveraged causes (technically, economically, and socially). I'll also put whatever fundraising-oriented material I come up with on the Perl 6 wiki, to help and encourage others along similar lines. Thanks much in advance. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 - Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot - Official Parrot Wiki
FW: Parrot 0.5.2 Released
François Perrad wrote: Bob Rogers wrote: On behalf of the Parrot team, I'm proud to announce Parrot 0.5.2 P.e. nipalensis. Parrot (http://parrotcode.org/) is a virtual machine aimed at running all dynamic languages. The Windows setup is available on http://parrotwin32.sourceforge.net/ with a perl6.exe for the first time. Very cool! I wanted to feature this on the Perl 6 wiki, but when I first naively gave this a try (on Win XP Pro), here's what I got: C:\parrot-0.5.2\binperl6 -e say 'Hello World!' Null PMC access in isa() current instr.: 'parrot;Perl6Object;make_proto' pc 55 (src/gen_builtins.pir:76) called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6Str;onload' pc 415 (src/gen_builtins.pir:332) called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Compiler;main' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1) (Got same results trying to use a file. Also tried putting bin dir on path.) Any special setup required for this? As a non-developer, it wasn't obvious where I should look for info. I didn't see a doc dir or README in the installation dir, and I didn't see anything obvious at http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot Official Parrot Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5 Official Perl 5 Wiki
Perl 6 wiki: (new) Perl 6 Marketplace and Perl 6 Books and Media
Latest changes below. As always, your contributions are solicited. (You can send me info if you don't have time to add it yourself.) New: Perl 6 Marketplace (for products, services, training, off-wiki job info) http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_marketplace Perl 6 Books and Media (existing and forthcoming) http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_books_and_media Updated: Perl 6 Articles and Presentations http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_articles_and_presentati ons Perl 6 People http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_people Thanks: to Michal Jurosz (http://perl6.cz/wiki/Perl_6_and_Parrot_links) for lots of useful info. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 - Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot - Official Parrot Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5 - Official Perl 5 Wiki
Perl 6 wiki: (new) Perl 6 Articles and Presentations
Just added a Perl 6 Articles and Presentations section to the Perl 6 wiki: http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_articles_and_presentati ons (It's the last item listed under Introduction on the Perl 6 wiki home page.) Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 -- Official Perl 6 Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot -- Official Parrot Wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5 -- Official Perl 5 Wiki
Big update to the Perl 6 Workplace Wiki
# FYI. The note below was originally posted on perl.perl6.users. # Thought some folks here should also be interested in this. # # Background: # # http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.internals/34764 # Announcing the Perl 6 and Parrot wiki workspaces # # http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.users/357 # From: Andy Lester [mailto:andy[at]petdance.com] # # I'm working with Ask about doing something # at perl.org in the next week or two. Ive just finished a big update to the Perl 6 Workplace Wiki. It got big enough that I started splitting it into subsidiary pages. The main page is still pretty long, but Ive added a table of contents to make it easier to find things on it. Please give it a look, and please add useful stuff to it. http://rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi # Main page. http://rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi#the_long_perl_6_super_feature_list http://rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi?glossary_of_perl_6_terms_and_jargon PS: Once again, I want to thank the folks at perl.net.au for doing the original wikifying of my Perl 6 Users FAQ on their Perl 6 Wiki a few months ago. Being able to cut and paste most of the pre-formatted content with links already in place (with very minimal post-copy tweaking) saved a tremendous amount of time. Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology. Check out the new Perl 6 Workplace Wiki: http://rakudo.org/perl6
RE: Big update to the Perl 6 Workplace Wiki
Mark Summersault asked what the license for this Wiki is going to be. Below is what I plugged in for the time being. It's my best guess of what the leading lights of #perl6 and @Larry would be reasonably happy with (and thus it should also be appropriate for something eventually living on or near perl.org). Copyright and License * (c) 2006 under the same (always latest) license(s) used by the Perl 6 /src branch of the Pugs trunk. * See http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/README for the latest details. * See the GPL-2, Artistic-2.0b5, and MIT files in http://svn.perl.org/perl6/pugs/trunk/LICENSE/ for the full license texts. # FYI. The note below was originally posted on perl.perl6.users. # Thought some folks here should also be interested in this. # # Background: # # http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.internals/34764 # Announcing the Perl 6 and Parrot wiki workspaces # # http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.users/357 # From: Andy Lester [mailto:andy[at]petdance.com] # # I'm working with Ask about doing something # at perl.org in the next week or two. Ive just finished a big update to the Perl 6 Workplace Wiki. It got big enough that I started splitting it into subsidiary pages. The main page is still pretty long, but Ive added a table of contents to make it easier to find things on it. Please give it a look, and please add useful stuff to it. http://rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi # Main page. http://rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi#the_long_perl_6_super_feature_list http://rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi?glossary_of_perl_6_terms_and_jargon Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology. Check out the new Perl 6 Workplace Wiki: http://rakudo.org/perl6
RE: (Existing) Perl 6 Wiki: (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6)
From: Michael Mathews I for one, think a Perl6-users wiki would be extremely useful, I'm just not sure why a site that distinguishes itself as a portal for the Australian and New Zealand Perl community makes the most sense I was only thinking of the availability of an existing Perl 6 Wiki, not the site as such. (particularly to anyone trying to find the Perl6-users wiki from outside this mailing list). My guess is that that's a pretty much location-independent problem, unless (for examples), (1) you get perl.org to host a Perl 6 users wiki, (2) you get perl.org and allied sites to put a prominent link to it on their main Perl 6 pages, and so on. Okay, New Zealand and Australia have parrots but the connection is a stretch. Isn't Larry and/or Damian from Australia? Maybe that's the connection? The only connection was that it turned up fairly high on the list when I googled for perl6 and wiki. (However: Damian Conway holds a Ph.D. in Computer Science and is an Honorary Associate Professor with the School of Computer Science and Software Engineering at Monash University, Melbourne, Australia.) I'm just askin'... HTH Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam technology.)
(Existing) Perl 6 Wiki: (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6).
I was googling around, looking for the most suitable Perl Wiki for a possible addition of a Perl 6 section, and happened across this site: Perl 6 Wiki: (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6). Their posted policies, FAQ, and (http://perl.net.au/wiki/PerlNet:About), seem to be very favorably inclined to serving the purposes of recent Perl 6 Wiki proposals made on comp.perl6.lang and comp.perl6.users. (I've cc'd their contact on this note.) If previous Perl 6 Wiki proponents are OK with this site, then we could perhaps post a note on comp.perl6.announce about it, and informally encourage people to make use of it for the time being. (And of course, I've already added the above Perl 6 Wiki link to the Perl 6 Users FAQ.) Best regards, Conrad Schneiker www.athenalab.com/ http://www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm www. http://www.AthenaLab.com AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam technology.)
Re: (Existing) Perl 6 Wiki: (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6)
Please see forwarded note below. (( Paul: Didn't see this show up in the archives, so I'm forwarding it on your behalf. Looks like you have to be subscribed to post. Details for doing that are in: http://www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm Also please look at a posted reply: http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/25399 Could you switch to an existing Perl 5 based wiki for the time being? )) -- Forwarded message -- From: Paul Fenwick Date: May 23, 2006 1:03 AM [...] G'day Conrad and P6ers, My apology for this being a very brief note. I'm on an interstate training assignment until the end of the week, and I'm scrounging net access where I can. Conrad Schneiker wrote: [snip] Their posted policies, FAQ, and (http://perl.net.au/wiki/PerlNet:About), seem to be very favorably inclined to serving the purposes of recent Perl 6 Wiki proposals made on comp.perl6.lang and comp.perl6.users. (I've cc'd their contact on this note.) As one of the PerlNet admins, I'd be delighted if PerlNet was used to assist in any Perl 6 development, discussions, or other activities. PerlNet exists to provide support for the Perl community, and if there's anything I can do to make it more suitable to help the Perl 6 effort, then I'd be very happy to do my best to make it happen. All the very best, Paul -- Paul Fenwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia| Fax: +61 3 9354 2681
Perl 6 User FAQ (perl.perl6.meta) -- Version: 2006-05-13 (beta 2)
This note is crossposted to perl.perl6.language; please include perl.perl6.meta on replies.] Feedback on the draft FAQ below will be appreciated. TIA. Anyone have a contact at Google they can ping about getting Google Groups to start picking up comp.perl6.meta? = Perl 6 User FAQ (perl.perl6.meta) == Version: 2006-05-14 (beta 2) TABLE OF CONTENTS * About perl.perl6.meta (and this FAQ) * About Perl 6 # True marketing hype, in both senses. :-) * General Perl 6 status # On the move! * Latest Perl 6 developments * Perl 6 info and docs # For the few that will RTFM first. :-) * Where to get Perl 6 # - I want it now!! - * Useful Perl 6 modules * Perl 6 features in the latest Perl 5 * Perl 5 modules implementing Perl 6 features * Incremental migration from Perl 5 to Perl 6 * Other useful resources * How you can help out with Perl 6 * Glossary * Copyright, license, and disclosure === About perl.perl6.meta (and this FAQ) === (Newbie warning! Perl 6 is still UNDER CONSTRUCTION. Don't make important plans that depend on it just yet. Please see other sections below about intermediate Perl 6-related solutions you can use now.) A major aim of this newsgroup (NG) is to help out early-adapters of Perl 6 (including early learners and early test drivers). This is a forum for seeking and sharing the latest general news and information about *using* (versus creating) Perl 6. (Presently, the other Perl 6 NGs are primarily for developers *of* Perl 6, versus for Perl 6 developers.) However, the time for sharing the -Ofun more widely has arrived. Some enterprising folks are already using *pieces* of the emerging Perl 6 infrastructure for $work. Parts of Perl 6 are being implemented in Perl 5 (some internally, some as modules). Wider experimentation with Perl 6 will help test out the emerging collection of docs, and help determine practical priorities for improvements. Suggested additional content (preferably including the content, or links to it) and corrections for this FAQ are always welcome. Please post them to perl.perl6.meta with the subject line FAQ feedback. Think of this NG as the prototype for the future comp.lang.perl6.misc NG. When traffic warrants it, we'll apply for official Usenet big 8 comp.* status. You can access this NG several ways: * Point your newsreader to (nntp.perl.org). Need a decent Windows newsreader? (http://www.mozilla.com/thunderbird/) works for me. * Some time soon, you should also be able to find us on Google Groups. * Subject lines of NG posts with link to each post can be found at this archive: (http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.meta). * Here's the RSS feed: (http://www.nntp.perl.org/rss/perl.perl6.meta.rdf). FAQ to do notes and meta-comments are in double angle bracket pairs, as illustrated here. === About Perl 6 === What is Perl 6? Perl 6 is an extensively refactored, super-modernized, and ultra-supercharged derivative of Perl 5. Simple things will still be simple to do, but you'll have enormously more programming leverage available for tackling challenging tasks. Here is a good introductory article on why Perl 6 is needed, and what it is: (http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2006/01/12/what_is_perl_6.html). When it comes to embracing embrace and extend, Perl 6 is exceptionally promiscuous: Perl 6 has (selectively) borrowed widely from our many friends, including Ruby, Python, Smalltalk, Lisp, Haskell, and others. Here is a brief summary of some notable Perl 6 features, starting from the list in (http://dev.perl.org/perl6/faq.html), plus a variety of additions and extensions: * optional explicit strong typing * proper parameter lists * active metadata on values, variables, subroutines, and types * declarative classes with strong encapsulation * full OO exception handling * support for the concurrent use of multiple versions of a module * extensive and powerful introspection facilities (including of POD) * LL and LR grammars (including a built-in grammar for Perl 6 itself) * subroutine overloading * multiple dispatch (multimethods) * named arguments * a built-in switch statement * hierarchical construction and destruction * distributive method dispatch * method delegation * named regexes * overlapping and exhaustive regex matches within a string * named captures * parse-tree pruning * incremental regex matching against input streams * macros (that are implemented in Perl itself) * full Unicode processing support * user-definable operators (from the full Unicode set) * chained comparisons * a universally accessible aliasing mechanism * lexical exporting (via a cleaner, declarative syntax) * multimorphic equality tests * state variables * hypothetical variables * hyperoperators (i.e. vector processing) * function currying * junctions (i.e. superpositional values, subroutines, and types) * coroutines * better threading * better garbage collection * much better foreign function interface (cross-language support) *
Re: RFC: Community Education Page -- perl.perl6.meta
David K Storrs wrote: Hmmm...This doesn't seem to have particularly grabbed the popular imagination among the Perl6 crowd. Well, I think it's the Perl5 crowd that is in much more need of having its imagination grabbed. :-) [big snip] Anyway, I very much like your ideas. (And Juerd's suggestion too.) I also think this thread is the sort of thing that would be a suitable topic of discussion on perl.perl6.meta. And some of your content would be useful for the (very preliminary) Perl 6 User FAQ that was recently posted there. At present, I'm getting to perl.perl6.meta through nntp.perl.org, and it will hopefully appear in Google Groups in the not too distant future. Meanwhile, you can see the archives at (http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.meta). I don't know if mail subscription is working for it. (This follows-up some #perl6 discussions in the preceding week about starting a general Perl 6 discussion NG. The idea is to first resurrect an old pre-existing group for this purpose, hence perl.perl6.meta. I'm about a week behind on reading the other *6* groups and #perl6, so I may have missed more recent discussions. I hope to be caught up by the end of the week.) Anyway, for the time being, I want to encourage you (and anyone else here) to cross-post (or move) discussions pertaining to *use* of Perl 6 (versus to internal stuff of ongoing language design and so on) to perl.perl6.meta. Likewise for other topics, such as marketing/evangelism, discussions of IDE support, brainstorming on how to get ponie funded, and so on. And if the Perl6 community doesn't think it's a good idea, then I won't bother. Have you asked on #perl6? Comments? Just do it. You already know it's a good idea. You're asking people that are already insanely busy and very intensely concentrated on what they are already doing, and who are extremely (development) results-oriented, so it's unlikely you'll get much encouragement under such circumstances. Also, if you consider the Perl 6 community to include everyone who has ever downloaded and run Pugs and plans to use Perl 6, you might only be reaching 1% of that group with this thread. You can mine most of the information you need from archives. If you supplement that with a judicious question or two, every other day or so, on a variety of appropriate forums, you'll have a first class site in a couple of months. Conrad Schneiker
Re: RFC: Community Education Page -- perl.perl6.meta
David K Storrs wrote: Hmmm...This doesn't seem to have particularly grabbed the popular imagination among the Perl6 crowd. Well, I think it's the Perl5 crowd that is in much more need of having its imagination grabbed. :-) [big snip] Anyway, I very much like your ideas. (And Juerd's suggestion too.) I also think this thread is the sort of thing that would be a suitable topic of discussion on perl.perl6.meta. And some of your content would be useful for the (very preliminary) Perl 6 User FAQ that was recently posted there. At present, I'm getting to perl.perl6.meta through nntp.perl.org, and it will hopefully appear in Google Groups in the not too distant future. Meanwhile, you can see the archives at (http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.meta). I don't know if mail subscription is working for it. (This follows-up some #perl6 discussions in the preceding week about starting a general Perl 6 discussion NG. The idea is to first resurrect an old pre-existing group for this purpose, hence perl.perl6.meta. I'm about a week behind on reading the other *6* groups and #perl6, so I may have missed more recent discussions. I hope to be caught up by the end of the week.) Anyway, for the time being, I want to encourage you (and anyone else here) to cross-post (or move) discussions pertaining to *use* of Perl 6 (versus to internal stuff of ongoing language design and so on) to perl.perl6.meta. Likewise for other topics, such as marketing/evangelism, discussions of IDE support, brainstorming on how to get ponie funded, and so on. And if the Perl6 community doesn't think it's a good idea, then I won't bother. Have you asked on #perl6? Comments? Just do it. You already know it's a good idea. You're asking people that are already insanely busy and very intensely concentrated on what they are already doing, and who are extremely (development) results-oriented, so it's unlikely you'll get much encouragement under such circumstances. Also, if you consider the Perl 6 community to include everyone who has ever downloaded and run Pugs and plans to use Perl 6, you might only be reaching 1% of that group with this thread. You can mine most of the information you need from archives. If you supplement that with a judicious question or two, every other day or so, on a variety of appropriate forums, you'll have a first class site in a couple of months. Conrad Schneiker
Re: RFC: Community Education Page -- perl.perl6.meta
David K Storrs wrote: Hmmm...This doesn't seem to have particularly grabbed the popular imagination among the Perl6 crowd. Well, I think it's the Perl5 crowd that is in much more need of having its imagination grabbed. :-) [big snip] Anyway, I very much like your ideas. (And Juerd's suggestion too.) I also think this thread is the sort of thing that would be a suitable topic of discussion on perl.perl6.meta. And some of your content would be useful for the (very preliminary) Perl 6 User FAQ that was recently posted there. At present, I'm getting to perl.perl6.meta through nntp.perl.org, and it will hopefully appear in Google Groups in the not too distant future. Meanwhile, you can see the archives at (http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.meta). I don't know if mail subscription is working for it. (This follows-up some #perl6 discussions in the preceding week about starting a general Perl 6 discussion NG. The idea is to first resurrect an old pre-existing group for this purpose, hence perl.perl6.meta. I'm about a week behind on reading the other *6* groups and #perl6, so I may have missed more recent discussions. I hope to be caught up by the end of the week.) Anyway, for the time being, I want to encourage you (and anyone else here) to cross-post (or move) discussions pertaining to *use* of Perl 6 (versus to internal stuff of ongoing language design and so on) to perl.perl6.meta. Likewise for other topics, such as marketing/evangelism, discussions of IDE support, brainstorming on how to get ponie funded, and so on. And if the Perl6 community doesn't think it's a good idea, then I won't bother. Have you asked on #perl6? Comments? Just do it. You already know it's a good idea. You're asking people that are already insanely busy and very intensely concentrated on what they are already doing, and who are extremely (development) results-oriented, so it's unlikely you'll get much encouragement under such circumstances. Also, if you consider the Perl 6 community to include everyone who has ever downloaded and run Pugs and plans to use Perl 6, you might only be reaching 1% of that group with this thread (since most of the extended Perl 6 community may have to concentrate on Perl 5 $work for the time being). You can mine most of the information you need from archives. If you supplement that with a judicious question or two, every other day or so, on a variety of appropriate forums, you'll have a first class site in a couple of months. Conrad Schneiker
