Re: [GENERAL] Linux equivalent library for "postgres.lib" from Windows

2016-11-10 Thread David Guyot
If you are looking for the name of the package providing the postgres
library, it will probably change over the distros; under Debian, you're
probably looking for libpq5 for the library itself, but I don't know the
name of the package containing debugging symbols for this one.

Depending on your development language, the corresponding package name can be 
different, and there can be a package with debugging symbols.

Regards.

Le mardi 08 novembre 2016 à 05:01 +, Gadamsetty, Kiran a écrit :
> We are depending on postgres.lib while creating a postgre extension for 
> windows. 
> We need to know the equivalent library in Linux to build the same in Linux to 
> get the symbols resolve correctly.
> 
> Any help is appreciated.
> 
> -Kiran G 
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux equivalent library for "postgres.lib" from Windows

2016-11-09 Thread Gadamsetty, Kiran
We are depending on postgres.lib while creating a postgre extension for 
windows. 
We need to know the equivalent library in Linux to build the same in Linux to 
get the symbols resolve correctly.

Any help is appreciated.

-Kiran G 



-Original Message-
From: Michael Paquier [mailto:michael.paqu...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 9:21 AM
To: Gadamsetty, Kiran 
Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org; Kumar, Sunil(RM engineering) 

Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Linux equivalent library for "postgres.lib" from Windows

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Gadamsetty, Kiran  
wrote:
> I am new to the product and in windows “postgres.lib” provides certain 
> functions which we are using in windows for creating extensions.
>
> Now I am porting the project to Linux and there no straight library 
> with this name in Linux binaries packages.
>
> Can someone please advise the equivalent library for postgres.lib in Linux?

There is no need to go down to this level of details perhaps? You could just 
use the PGXS infrastructure to guess it for you.
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Michael

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux equivalent library for "postgres.lib" from Windows

2016-11-08 Thread Albe Laurenz
John R Pierce wrote:
>> I am new to the product and in windows “postgres.lib” provides certain 
>> functions which we are
>> using in windows for creating extensions.
>> 
>> Now I am porting the project to Linux and there no straight library with 
>> this name in Linux
>> binaries packages.
>> 
>> Can someone please advise the equivalent library for postgres.lib in Linux?
> 
> I am not sure what this postgres.lib is, what are the functions you're using ?

With MSVC, you have to link with the mylibrary.lib file if you want to use
functions from the shared library mylibrary.dll.
This is not necessary on Linux, where references to a shared library are 
resolved
at load time.

So the answer to the original question is that there is no replacement
for postgres.lib on Linux because you don't need it to link with PostgreSQL.
It is enough to #include the required PostgreSQL headers during compilation.

Some information on how to link on Linux can be found here:
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/xfunc-c.html#DFUNC
But as others have remarked, using PGXS is much better than doing
it by hand.

Yours,
Laurenz Albe

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux equivalent library for "postgres.lib" from Windows

2016-11-07 Thread Michael Paquier
On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 1:29 PM, John R Pierce  wrote:
> I am not sure what this postgres.lib is, what are the functions you're using
> ?

It contains references to all the exposed functions of the backend on
Windows. Using something like dumpbin /exports postgres.lib would show
exactly that if I recall correctly. But, anyway, what Kiran is looking
for here is to build his stuff via PGXS.
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux equivalent library for "postgres.lib" from Windows

2016-11-07 Thread John R Pierce

On 11/7/2016 7:51 PM, Michael Paquier wrote:

There is no need to go down to this level of details perhaps? You
could just use the PGXS infrastructure to guess it for you.


+1 I forgot to mention PGXS, that provides a portable method of 
building server-side extensions.


See https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/extend-pgxs.html


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux equivalent library for "postgres.lib" from Windows

2016-11-07 Thread John R Pierce

On 11/6/2016 9:28 PM, Gadamsetty, Kiran wrote:


I am new to the product and in windows “postgres.lib” provides certain 
functions which we are using in windows for creating extensions.


Now I am porting the project to Linux and there no straight library 
with this name in Linux binaries packages.


Can someone please advise the equivalent library for postgres.lib in 
Linux?




I am not sure what this postgres.lib is, what are the functions you're 
using ?


libpq.so is the standard postgres client library.  it provides the 
PQxx functions documented here, 
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/libpq.html


or are you talking about the SPI_x functions used by C functions 
being called within postgresql ?






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Re: [GENERAL] Linux equivalent library for "postgres.lib" from Windows

2016-11-07 Thread Michael Paquier
On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Gadamsetty, Kiran
 wrote:
> I am new to the product and in windows “postgres.lib” provides certain
> functions which we are using in windows for creating extensions.
>
> Now I am porting the project to Linux and there no straight library with
> this name in Linux binaries packages.
>
> Can someone please advise the equivalent library for postgres.lib in Linux?

There is no need to go down to this level of details perhaps? You
could just use the PGXS infrastructure to guess it for you.
-- 
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[GENERAL] Linux equivalent library for "postgres.lib" from Windows

2016-11-07 Thread Gadamsetty, Kiran
Hi,

I am new to the product and in windows "postgres.lib" provides certain 
functions which we are using in windows for creating extensions.
Now I am porting the project to Linux and there no straight library with this 
name in Linux binaries packages.

Can someone please advise the equivalent library for postgres.lib in Linux?

Thanks,
Kiran G


Re: [GENERAL] Linux replication to FreeBSD problem

2014-08-20 Thread Jov
Yes,it is locale problem.
I do some more testing,and find that in my DB locale which is
zh_CN.UTF-8,the indexes on FreeBSD slave can works if the indexed data is
lower case ascii,it can't find data contain upper case.

Explicit set the column collate to "C" can solve the problem.
I will recreate all the index with collate "C".

Thanks very much!

Jov
blog: http:amutu.com/blog 


2014-08-20 23:36 GMT+08:00 Tom Lane :

> Adrian Klaver  writes:
> > On 08/20/2014 07:53 AM, Jov wrote:
> >> I setup a PG 9.3.5 master on CentOS 6 x86_64,and 2 screaming replicaton
> >> slaves,one on CentOS6 x86_64,the other on FreeBSD 10 amd64.
> >> The replication work fine for a week,But today I find a problem on sql
> >> running on FreeBSD:simple sql use index do not return result.If I
> >> disable the index ,use seqscan,then I can get correct result.
>
> > I would say FreeBSD is not similar enough to Linux(CentOS) to make this
> > work reliably with binary replication.
>
> The most likely theory as to the source of the problem is that the locale
> names used by the CentOS machine are not recognized by the FreeBSD OS,
> and/or imply slightly different sort orderings.  So a text index that's
> correctly sorted according to the CentOS machine is not correctly sorted
> according to FreeBSD, leading to search failures.
>
> You could probably make this case work reliably if you used C locale on
> both systems; the behavior of that is pretty portable.
>
> regards, tom lane
>
>
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux replication to FreeBSD problem

2014-08-20 Thread Tom Lane
Adrian Klaver  writes:
> On 08/20/2014 07:53 AM, Jov wrote:
>> I setup a PG 9.3.5 master on CentOS 6 x86_64,and 2 screaming replicaton
>> slaves,one on CentOS6 x86_64,the other on FreeBSD 10 amd64.
>> The replication work fine for a week,But today I find a problem on sql
>> running on FreeBSD:simple sql use index do not return result.If I
>> disable the index ,use seqscan,then I can get correct result.

> I would say FreeBSD is not similar enough to Linux(CentOS) to make this 
> work reliably with binary replication.

The most likely theory as to the source of the problem is that the locale
names used by the CentOS machine are not recognized by the FreeBSD OS,
and/or imply slightly different sort orderings.  So a text index that's
correctly sorted according to the CentOS machine is not correctly sorted
according to FreeBSD, leading to search failures.

You could probably make this case work reliably if you used C locale on
both systems; the behavior of that is pretty portable.

regards, tom lane


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux replication to FreeBSD problem

2014-08-20 Thread Adrian Klaver

On 08/20/2014 07:53 AM, Jov wrote:

I setup a PG 9.3.5 master on CentOS 6 x86_64,and 2 screaming replicaton
slaves,one on CentOS6 x86_64,the other on FreeBSD 10 amd64.
The replication work fine for a week,But today I find a problem on sql
running on FreeBSD:simple sql use index do not return result.If I
disable the index ,use seqscan,then I can get correct result.




So,Is this a un-support replication method?


https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Binary_Replication_Tutorial#5_Minutes_to_Simple_Replication

You must have the right setup to make this work:

2 servers with similar operating systems (e.g both Linux 64-bit).

I would say FreeBSD is not similar enough to Linux(CentOS) to make this 
work reliably with binary replication.




Jov
blog: http:amutu.com/blog 



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[GENERAL] Linux replication to FreeBSD problem

2014-08-20 Thread Jov
I setup a PG 9.3.5 master on CentOS 6 x86_64,and 2 screaming replicaton
slaves,one on CentOS6 x86_64,the other on FreeBSD 10 amd64.
The replication work fine for a week,But today I find a problem on sql
running on FreeBSD:simple sql use index do not return result.If I disable
the index ,use seqscan,then I can get correct result.

psql (9.3.5)
Type "help" for help.^
xx=> explain analyze verbose select order_id from orders where order_id =
'AAGJfwJYUzD3';
 QUERY PLAN


 Bitmap Heap Scan on public.orders  (cost=4.47..31.06 rows=7 width=17)
(actual time=0.317..0.317 rows=0 loops=1)
   Output: order_id
   Recheck Cond: ((orders.order_id)::text = 'AAGJfwJYUzD3'::text)
   ->  Bitmap Index Scan on orders_order_id_idx  (cost=0.00..4.47 rows=7
width=0) (actual time=0.252..0.252 rows=0 loops=1)
 Index Cond: ((orders.order_id)::text = 'AAGJfwJYUzD3'::text)
 Total runtime: 0.753 ms
(6 rows)

xx=> set enable_indexonlyscan to f;
SET
xx=> set enable_indexscan to f;
SET
xx=> set enable_bitmapscan to f;
SET
forex=> explain analyze verbose select order_id from orders where order_id
= 'AAGJfwJYUzD3';
 QUERY PLAN

-
 Seq Scan on public.orders  (cost=0.00..2185.69 rows=7 width=17) (actual
time=70.003..71.238 rows=1 loops=1)
   Output: order_id
   Filter: ((orders.order_id)::text = 'AAGJfwJYUzD3'::text)
   Rows Removed by Filter: 63481
 Total runtime: 71.379 ms
(5 rows)

So,Is this a un-support replication method?

Jov
blog: http:amutu.com/blog 


Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-11 Thread D'Arcy J.M. Cain
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 17:15:28 +0300
Achilleas Mantzios  wrote:
> pl/java has nothing to do with this. The argument against using
> packages/ports for postgresql upgrades, is that upgrades in general
> involve :
> - reading HISTORY thoroughly and understanding every bit of it,
> especially the migration part, and the changes part

Do this before installing anything.

> - backing up the current database

Also this.

> - installing the new binaries

This is the only thing that the ports or pkgsrc (NetBSD) facility does
for you.

> - running pg_upgrade
> - solving problems that pg_upgrade detects and trying again
> - testing your in house C/Java/etc... functions
> - testing your whole app + utilities against the new version

After installing the upgrade all of this has to be done.  None of it is
going to be done by ports/pkgsrc/apt-get or any other install
facility including your own brain sweat.  All ports/pkgsrc does for you
is the install part.

> Now, tell me, how much of this can
> the /usr/ports/databases/postgresqlXX-server port can do? Would you

Step 3.  Period.

> trust the system to do this for you in an automated maybe weekly  pkg
> upgrade task that would handle e.g. cdrecord and postgresql-xxx in
> the same manner ?

I wouldn't trust any system to blindly install any program I certainly
wouldn't automate any upgrades on a production server.  The most I
would do automatically is build the latest package for manual
installation.

> Now about writing ports, i can say to you this is a PITA. Its a great
> concept, but you must truly commit to having a part of your life slot
> maintaining the port you submitted. This could be fun at first, but
> in the long run, this is not easy.

Why?  Once you submit your port to the community you could update when
you could or poke the community to do it for you.  All hail open source.

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-11 Thread Achilleas Mantzios

On 11/04/2014 15:05, Alban Hertroys wrote:
Although it is getting a bit specific, would you care to elaborate why you would advice strongly against using ports or packages for Postgres on FreeBSD? Because that’s a rather strong statement 
you’re making and so far the only argument I’ve seen is that there is no port for pl/java. I’m curious as to why you are so strongly set on custom-compiling Postgres. BTW, isn’t the usual solution 
to a missing port to create your own (local) port? I can’t claim I have ever done that (never needed to), but apparently that’s the way to go about it. The obvious benefit is that it will fit in 
with the package management system, while you could even provide the port to others if you’d be willing to take responsibility for maintaining that port. 


pl/java has nothing to do with this. The argument against using packages/ports 
for postgresql
upgrades, is that upgrades in general involve :
- reading HISTORY thoroughly and understanding every bit of it, especially the 
migration part,
and the changes part
- backing up the current database
- installing the new binaries
- running pg_upgrade
- solving problems that pg_upgrade detects and trying again
- testing your in house C/Java/etc... functions
- testing your whole app + utilities against the new version

Now, tell me, how much of this can the /usr/ports/databases/postgresqlXX-server 
port can do?
Would you trust the system to do this for you in an automated maybe weekly  pkg 
upgrade task
that would handle e.g. cdrecord and postgresql-xxx in the same manner ?

Now about writing ports, i can say to you this is a PITA. Its a great concept, 
but you must truly
commit to having a part of your life slot maintaining the port you submitted. 
This could be fun at first,
but in the long run, this is not easy.


Fair enough.


You are welcome :)


Alban Hertroys
--
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cut the trees and you'll find there is no forest.






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Head of IT DEV
IT DEPT
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-11 Thread D'Arcy J.M. Cain
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 09:16:04 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:
> Curious: Why not consider OpenBSD also?

Or NetBSD.

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-11 Thread Steve Litt
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 14:05:43 +0200
Alban Hertroys  wrote:

> My advice to the OP:
> 
> Install FreeBSD on a system to play around with, get a feel for how
> it works and whether you like it or not. See how it performs with
> Postgres on different file-systems; UFS2 or ZFS - UFS is the faster
> of the two, but ZFS makes up for that big time in maintainability if
> you provide it with enough memory. If you require locale-specific
> collations (native language specific sort ordering), check that it
> does what you expect.

Curious: Why not consider OpenBSD also?

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-11 Thread Alban Hertroys
On 11 Apr 2014, at 12:39, Achilleas Mantzios  
wrote:

I moved this bit of the conversation up as it’s relevant to the OP:

> On 11/04/2014 13:05, Alban Hertroys wrote:
>> On 11 Apr 2014, at 8:04, Achilleas Mantzios  
>> wrote:

>>> I don't mean to scare the OP, but FreeBSD is not for everyone.
>> And that (again) could be said about any OS. Even Windows or OS X.
>> It depends on what you intend to use it for and what prior experience, 
>> preconceptions and expectations you might have.
> Playing with words aside, going with FreeBSD is not for the average Ubuntu 
> user.

(Words are fun!)

That was actually what I was getting at. A user coming from Ubuntu will have 
some preconceived ideas about how things work (because that’s how Ubuntu does 
things) that get in their way when moving to a different OS where they 
sometimes work just slightly differently.

My advice to the OP:

Install FreeBSD on a system to play around with, get a feel for how it works 
and whether you like it or not.
See how it performs with Postgres on different file-systems; UFS2 or ZFS - UFS 
is the faster of the two, but ZFS makes up for that big time in maintainability 
if you provide it with enough memory.
If you require locale-specific collations (native language specific sort 
ordering), check that it does what you expect.

If you instead put your database on FreeBSD straight away, you’ve suddenly made 
yourself responsible for a system that you do not know how to maintain or tune 
properly.

There are solutions to that of course, such as hiring someone to maintain it 
for you or to educate you in how to maintain it yourself (which might not be a 
bad idea for your current situation with Ubuntu either).

>>> Example of base system part :
>>> Recently I had to install pl-java on my FreeBSD workstation. There was a 
>>> problem with libtrh, postgresql should be recompiled
>>> with explicitly setting : -lpthread in 
>>> /usr/local/src/postgresql-9.3.4/src/backend/Makefile, without this the 
>>> backend would simply hang
>>> at the very first invocation of a java function. This came after detailed 
>>> following or email exchange of various hackers groups
>>> in both pgsql and FreeBSD lists, to describe the issue as accurately as 
>>> possible, to help debug as most as possible, to talk
>>> to the right people, to give them incentive to answer back, etc.
>> It seems to me that the reason you were custom compiling Postgres in the 
>> first place was a problem with the port. I’m sure tracking down the problem 
>> wasn’t easy, but that is not really relevant to the topic. Ports break 
>> sometimes (on any OS) and it would have been sufficient to contact the port 
>> maintainer about the issue.
> No, i wasn't compiling postgresql from standard distribution because of a 
> problem with the port.
> (although the port had the same exact behavior)
> I always run postgresql compiled by hand, since I see no reason to sacrifice 
> my peace of mind
> for a short-lived joy going with the ports or PKGng system.
> As a matter of fact, PostgreSQL is among the few software packages that i 
> would advice strongly
> against using ports or pkgs of any kind. Might work in Debian. Would not risk 
> this in FreeBSD.

Although it is getting a bit specific, would you care to elaborate why you 
would advice strongly against using ports or packages for Postgres on FreeBSD? 
Because that’s a rather strong statement you’re making and so far the only 
argument I’ve seen is that there is no port for pl/java. I’m curious as to why 
you are so strongly set on custom-compiling Postgres.

BTW, isn’t the usual solution to a missing port to create your own (local) 
port? I can’t claim I have ever done that (never needed to), but apparently 
that’s the way to go about it. The obvious benefit is that it will fit in with 
the package management system, while you could even provide the port to others 
if you’d be willing to take responsibility for maintaining that port.

>> And yes, I have edited Makefiles, although the need hasn’t risen recently.
> With plain vanilla ports it is rarely needed.

True, that’s usually only necessary in the rare case that a port isn’t 
compiling or when you’re stubborn about not wanting certain dependencies (I 
know someone who used to be dead-set against gettext, for example).

>> Oh, and please try not to top-post when replying on this list.
> I did just for this message, because i did not feel appropriate to quote 
> anything that the previous
> poster wrote.

Fair enough.

Alban Hertroys
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-11 Thread Achilleas Mantzios

On 11/04/2014 13:05, Alban Hertroys wrote:

On 11 Apr 2014, at 8:04, Achilleas Mantzios  
wrote:


Basically it goes beyond what ppl would describe as OS holly wars.
If one chooses to go by FreeBSD, then he better be prepared to handle the 
burden, both the part that is
imposed by the OS administration itself, as well as the part that is a side 
effect of the different base system.

Example of admin part :
Generally, compiling postgresql from source gives more freedom than be stuck on 
the OS's ports or PKGng
system. (the later being a very handy and welcome addition to FreeBSD).
Now what if e.g. the user wants pgsql software X (e.g. pgadmin3, p5-Pg, etc...) 
only to find out that most of those
ports need postgresql client as a dependency. He/she must be prepared to work 
his way through :
- manual installations (gmake config && gmake && gmake install)
- /usr/ports
- PKG binary installations
in decreasing order of freedom but increasing order of easiness, and in many 
cases work through a combination
of the above.

That argument holds for any package system on any OS I know of. Once you start 
custom compiling things outside the control of the package management system, 
you’re on your own.

I am not against FreeBSD in any way, as a matter of fact i am struggling for 
about 20 years
to keep it alive at least in my working environment, being my primary 
development workstation.

Custom compiling may give more freedom, but it’s hardly ever necessary on 
FreeBSD. For example, the only ports that I ever had to custom compile were 
ports for software I was developing, which of course no package management 
system can keep track of.

Try to install/setup PgSQL-backed openldap with unixODBC when your KDE has 
iodbc as a prerequisite.
Or try to install pljava, for which of course no OS port/OS package/PgSQL 
extension exists, yet.
Good luck with any of those.

In general, the various options the port Makefile provides for customisation 
are quite sufficient. It’s a plus to the ports system that you get any options 
at all.


Example of base system part :
Recently I had to install pl-java on my FreeBSD workstation. There was a 
problem with libtrh, postgresql should be recompiled
with explicitly setting : -lpthread in 
/usr/local/src/postgresql-9.3.4/src/backend/Makefile, without this the backend 
would simply hang
at the very first invocation of a java function. This came after detailed 
following or email exchange of various hackers groups
in both pgsql and FreeBSD lists, to describe the issue as accurately as 
possible, to help debug as most as possible, to talk
to the right people, to give them incentive to answer back, etc.

It seems to me that the reason you were custom compiling Postgres in the first 
place was a problem with the port. I’m sure tracking down the problem wasn’t 
easy, but that is not really relevant to the topic. Ports break sometimes (on 
any OS) and it would have been sufficient to contact the port maintainer about 
the issue.

No, i wasn't compiling postgresql from standard distribution because of a 
problem with the port.
(although the port had the same exact behavior)
I always run postgresql compiled by hand, since I see no reason to sacrifice my 
peace of mind
for a short-lived joy going with the ports or PKGng system.
As a matter of fact, PostgreSQL is among the few software packages that i would 
advice strongly
against using ports or pkgs of any kind. Might work in Debian. Would not risk 
this in FreeBSD.

For a quick (temporary) fix, you could probably have fixed the port by editing 
the port Makefile. With that, there’s no reason anymore to “custom compile” 
postgres and it leaves the dependency tracking of the port in place. Editing 
Makefiles is indeed not for everyone, but at least you _can_ do that on 
FreeBSD. Not every package management system will let you do that.

Sure, but the way to do this is not by simply editing a Makefile, but with 
writing an extra patch
inside /usr/ports/databases/postgresql93-server/files/ . Which is more burden 
than easiness.

And yes, I have edited Makefiles, although the need hasn’t risen recently.

With plain vanilla ports it is rarely needed.

I don't mean to scare the OP, but FreeBSD is not for everyone.

And that (again) could be said about any OS. Even Windows or OS X.
It depends on what you intend to use it for and what prior experience, 
preconceptions and expectations you might have.

Playing with words aside, going with FreeBSD is not for the average Ubuntu user.


Oh, and please try not to top-post when replying on this list.

I did just for this message, because i did not feel appropriate to quote 
anything that the previous
poster wrote.

On 11/04/2014 00:50, Jan Wieck wrote:

On 04/10/14 17:25, Christofer C. Bell wrote:

I'm not wanting to get after anyone here, but I want it on the record
that I am not the source of the above quote discouraging the use of
Ubuntu in a server role.  That would be Bruce Momjian. While Bruce is
enti

Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-11 Thread Alban Hertroys
On 11 Apr 2014, at 8:04, Achilleas Mantzios  
wrote:

> Basically it goes beyond what ppl would describe as OS holly wars.
> If one chooses to go by FreeBSD, then he better be prepared to handle the 
> burden, both the part that is
> imposed by the OS administration itself, as well as the part that is a side 
> effect of the different base system.
> 
> Example of admin part :
> Generally, compiling postgresql from source gives more freedom than be stuck 
> on the OS's ports or PKGng
> system. (the later being a very handy and welcome addition to FreeBSD).
> Now what if e.g. the user wants pgsql software X (e.g. pgadmin3, p5-Pg, 
> etc...) only to find out that most of those
> ports need postgresql client as a dependency. He/she must be prepared to work 
> his way through :
> - manual installations (gmake config && gmake && gmake install)
> - /usr/ports
> - PKG binary installations
> in decreasing order of freedom but increasing order of easiness, and in many 
> cases work through a combination
> of the above.

That argument holds for any package system on any OS I know of. Once you start 
custom compiling things outside the control of the package management system, 
you’re on your own.

Custom compiling may give more freedom, but it’s hardly ever necessary on 
FreeBSD. For example, the only ports that I ever had to custom compile were 
ports for software I was developing, which of course no package management 
system can keep track of.

In general, the various options the port Makefile provides for customisation 
are quite sufficient. It’s a plus to the ports system that you get any options 
at all.

> Example of base system part :
> Recently I had to install pl-java on my FreeBSD workstation. There was a 
> problem with libtrh, postgresql should be recompiled
> with explicitly setting : -lpthread in 
> /usr/local/src/postgresql-9.3.4/src/backend/Makefile, without this the 
> backend would simply hang
> at the very first invocation of a java function. This came after detailed 
> following or email exchange of various hackers groups
> in both pgsql and FreeBSD lists, to describe the issue as accurately as 
> possible, to help debug as most as possible, to talk
> to the right people, to give them incentive to answer back, etc.

It seems to me that the reason you were custom compiling Postgres in the first 
place was a problem with the port. I’m sure tracking down the problem wasn’t 
easy, but that is not really relevant to the topic. Ports break sometimes (on 
any OS) and it would have been sufficient to contact the port maintainer about 
the issue.

For a quick (temporary) fix, you could probably have fixed the port by editing 
the port Makefile. With that, there’s no reason anymore to “custom compile” 
postgres and it leaves the dependency tracking of the port in place. Editing 
Makefiles is indeed not for everyone, but at least you _can_ do that on 
FreeBSD. Not every package management system will let you do that.

And yes, I have edited Makefiles, although the need hasn’t risen recently.

> I don't mean to scare the OP, but FreeBSD is not for everyone.

And that (again) could be said about any OS. Even Windows or OS X.
It depends on what you intend to use it for and what prior experience, 
preconceptions and expectations you might have.

Oh, and please try not to top-post when replying on this list.

> On 11/04/2014 00:50, Jan Wieck wrote:
>> On 04/10/14 17:25, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
>>> I'm not wanting to get after anyone here, but I want it on the record
>>> that I am not the source of the above quote discouraging the use of
>>> Ubuntu in a server role.  That would be Bruce Momjian. While Bruce is
>>> entitled to his opinion, it's not one I agree with and I don't want a
>>> Google search years from now to tie my name to that viewpoint.
>> 
>> Who (in their right mind) would ever think of anything but BSD in a server 
>> role?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Jan

Alban Hertroys
--
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cut the trees and you'll find there is no forest.



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-10 Thread Achilleas Mantzios

Basically it goes beyond what ppl would describe as OS holly wars.
If one chooses to go by FreeBSD, then he better be prepared to handle the 
burden, both the part that is
imposed by the OS administration itself, as well as the part that is a side 
effect of the different base system.

Example of admin part :
Generally, compiling postgresql from source gives more freedom than be stuck on 
the OS's ports or PKGng
system. (the later being a very handy and welcome addition to FreeBSD).
Now what if e.g. the user wants pgsql software X (e.g. pgadmin3, p5-Pg, etc...) 
only to find out that most of those
ports need postgresql client as a dependency. He/she must be prepared to work 
his way through :
- manual installations (gmake config && gmake && gmake install)
- /usr/ports
- PKG binary installations
in decreasing order of freedom but increasing order of easiness, and in many 
cases work through a combination
of the above.

Example of base system part :
Recently I had to install pl-java on my FreeBSD workstation. There was a 
problem with libtrh, postgresql should be recompiled
with explicitly setting : -lpthread in 
/usr/local/src/postgresql-9.3.4/src/backend/Makefile, without this the backend 
would simply hang
at the very first invocation of a java function. This came after detailed 
following or email exchange of various hackers groups
in both pgsql and FreeBSD lists, to describe the issue as accurately as 
possible, to help debug as most as possible, to talk
to the right people, to give them incentive to answer back, etc.

I don't mean to scare the OP, but FreeBSD is not for everyone.

On 11/04/2014 00:50, Jan Wieck wrote:

On 04/10/14 17:25, Christofer C. Bell wrote:

I'm not wanting to get after anyone here, but I want it on the record
that I am not the source of the above quote discouraging the use of
Ubuntu in a server role.  That would be Bruce Momjian. While Bruce is
entitled to his opinion, it's not one I agree with and I don't want a
Google search years from now to tie my name to that viewpoint.


Who (in their right mind) would ever think of anything but BSD in a server role?




Jan




--
Achilleas Mantzios
Head of IT DEV
IT DEPT
Dynacom Tankers Mgmt



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-10 Thread Jan Wieck

On 04/10/14 17:25, Christofer C. Bell wrote:

I'm not wanting to get after anyone here, but I want it on the record
that I am not the source of the above quote discouraging the use of
Ubuntu in a server role.  That would be Bruce Momjian. While Bruce is
entitled to his opinion, it's not one I agree with and I don't want a
Google search years from now to tie my name to that viewpoint.


Who (in their right mind) would ever think of anything but BSD in a 
server role?





Jan

--
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Senior Software Engineer
http://slony.info


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-10 Thread Christofer C. Bell
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 3:36 PM, François Beausoleil
 wrote:
>
> Le 2014-04-09 à 16:20, Bruce Momjian a écrit :
>
> On Wed, Apr  9, 2014 at 10:02:07AM -0500, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
>
> This highlights a more fundamental problem of the difference between a
> workstation-based on OS like Ubuntu and a server-based one like Debian
> or FreeBSD.  I know Ubuntu has a "server" version, but fundamentally
> Ubuntu's selection of kernels and feature churn make it less than ideal
> for server deployments.
>
> I am sure someone can post that they use Ubuntu just fine for server
> deployments, but I continue to feel that Ubuntu is chosen by
> administrators because it an OS they are familiar with on workstations,
> rather than it being the best choice for servers.
>
>
> I'm not a full-time sysadmin. I chose Ubuntu because I have familiarity with
> it, and because installing Puppet on it installed the certificates and
> everything I needed to get going. I tried Debian, but I had to fight and
> find the correct procedures to install the Puppet certificates and all.
> Ubuntu saved me some time back then.
>
> Cheers!
> François

I'm not wanting to get after anyone here, but I want it on the record
that I am not the source of the above quote discouraging the use of
Ubuntu in a server role.  That would be Bruce Momjian. While Bruce is
entitled to his opinion, it's not one I agree with and I don't want a
Google search years from now to tie my name to that viewpoint.

Thanks!

-- 
Chris

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent
the Universe." -- Carl Sagan


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-10 Thread Stuart Bishop
On 4 April 2014 11:03, François Beausoleil  wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance issues 
> on a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot, between 5 
> and 50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate some of the 
> issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering FreeBSD, but I'm 
> willing to learn if I'll get some performance enhancements out of the switch.

Ubuntu 14.04 LTS is being released in a few days and you might have
more success with its newer kernel. And try different schedulers if
you haven't already - IIRC switching to deadline resolved one of our
load problems.

-- 
Stuart Bishop 
http://www.stuartbishop.net/


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-09 Thread Alan Hodgson
On Wednesday, April 09, 2014 09:02:02 PM Brent Wood wrote:
> Given the likely respective numbers of each OS actually out there, I'd
> suggests BSD is very over-represented in the high uptime list which is
> suggestive.

Suggestive of ... sysadmins who don't do kernel updates?



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-09 Thread Brent Wood
Not a great help with which Linux to run, nor Postgres focused, but may be of 
interest, & very relevant to the subject line..

Given the likely respective numbers of each OS actually out there, I'd suggests 
BSD is very over-represented in the high uptime list which is suggestive.

http://uptime.netcraft.com/perf/reports/performance/Hosters?orderby=epercent

Cheers,

Brent Wood


Brent Wood
Principal Technician - GIS and Spatial Data Management
Programme Leader - Environmental Information Delivery
+64-4-386-0529 | 301 Evans Bay Parade, Greta Point, Wellington | 
www.niwa.co.nz<http://www.niwa.co.nz>
[NIWA]<http://www.niwa.co.nz>

From: pgsql-general-ow...@postgresql.org [pgsql-general-ow...@postgresql.org] 
on behalf of Fran?ois Beausoleil [franc...@teksol.info]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:36 AM
To: Bruce Momjian
Cc: Christofer C. Bell; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

Le 2014-04-09 ? 16:20, Bruce Momjian a ?crit :

On Wed, Apr  9, 2014 at 10:02:07AM -0500, Christofer C. Bell wrote:

This highlights a more fundamental problem of the difference between a
workstation-based on OS like Ubuntu and a server-based one like Debian
or FreeBSD.  I know Ubuntu has a "server" version, but fundamentally
Ubuntu's selection of kernels and feature churn make it less than ideal
for server deployments.

I am sure someone can post that they use Ubuntu just fine for server
deployments, but I continue to feel that Ubuntu is chosen by
administrators because it an OS they are familiar with on workstations,
rather than it being the best choice for servers.

I'm not a full-time sysadmin. I chose Ubuntu because I have familiarity with 
it, and because installing Puppet on it installed the certificates and 
everything I needed to get going. I tried Debian, but I had to fight and find 
the correct procedures to install the Puppet certificates and all. Ubuntu saved 
me some time back then.

Cheers!
Fran?ois



<>

Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-09 Thread Bosco Rama
On 04/09/14 14:46, Scott Marlowe wrote:
> 
> I'm not deploying any new distro version that soon. :) I know folks
> just putting 12.04 into prod to replace etch and lenny. :)

You can easily get the 3.11.0 kernel on 12.04.4 LTS by installing
the linux-generic-lts-saucy package.  IIRC, the fix for the iowait
issue was committed into 3.9.x but the first Ubuntu kernel that
appeared with the fix was the one for 'saucy'.


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-09 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Steve Atkins  wrote:
>
> On Apr 9, 2014, at 1:33 PM, Scott Marlowe  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Christofer C. Bell
>>  wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:03 PM, François Beausoleil
>>>  wrote:
 Hi all!

 Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance 
 issues on a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot, 
 between 5 and 50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate 
 some of the issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering 
 FreeBSD, but I'm willing to learn if I'll get some performance 
 enhancements out of the switch.

 $ uname -a
 Linux munn.ca.seevibes.com 3.2.0-58-generic #88-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 
 17:37:58 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>>>
>>> From the research I've done online, this is likely your issue.  Kernel
>>> 3.2.0 has some issues that directly and severely impact I/O wait times
>>> for PostgreSQL.  The suggested fixes (that seem to have worked for
>>> most people reporting in) are to revert the OS to Ubuntu Server 10.04
>>> or to install one of the HWE (HardWare Enablement) kernels into the
>>> 12.04 system (this would be one of the kernels from a later release of
>>> Ubuntu provided in the 12.04 repositories).
>>
>> 12.04 supports 3.8.0 directly. There's a site on putting 3.10.17 or so
>> on it as well I found by googling for it. You need 3.10+ if you wanna
>> play with bcache which is how I found it. But you don't need to jump
>> through any hoops to get 3.8.0 on 12.04.4 LTS
>
> Or wait  8 days for14.04 LTS with kernel 3.14.

I'm not deploying any new distro version that soon. :) I know folks
just putting 12.04 into prod to replace etch and lenny. :)
-- 
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-09 Thread Steve Atkins

On Apr 9, 2014, at 1:33 PM, Scott Marlowe  wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Christofer C. Bell
>  wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:03 PM, François Beausoleil
>>  wrote:
>>> Hi all!
>>> 
>>> Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance issues 
>>> on a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot, between 5 
>>> and 50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate some of 
>>> the issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering FreeBSD, but 
>>> I'm willing to learn if I'll get some performance enhancements out of the 
>>> switch.
>>> 
>>> $ uname -a
>>> Linux munn.ca.seevibes.com 3.2.0-58-generic #88-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 
>>> 17:37:58 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>> 
>> From the research I've done online, this is likely your issue.  Kernel
>> 3.2.0 has some issues that directly and severely impact I/O wait times
>> for PostgreSQL.  The suggested fixes (that seem to have worked for
>> most people reporting in) are to revert the OS to Ubuntu Server 10.04
>> or to install one of the HWE (HardWare Enablement) kernels into the
>> 12.04 system (this would be one of the kernels from a later release of
>> Ubuntu provided in the 12.04 repositories).
> 
> 12.04 supports 3.8.0 directly. There's a site on putting 3.10.17 or so
> on it as well I found by googling for it. You need 3.10+ if you wanna
> play with bcache which is how I found it. But you don't need to jump
> through any hoops to get 3.8.0 on 12.04.4 LTS

Or wait  8 days for14.04 LTS with kernel 3.14.

Cheers,
  Steve

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-09 Thread François Beausoleil

Le 2014-04-09 à 16:20, Bruce Momjian a écrit :

> On Wed, Apr  9, 2014 at 10:02:07AM -0500, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
> 
> This highlights a more fundamental problem of the difference between a
> workstation-based on OS like Ubuntu and a server-based one like Debian
> or FreeBSD.  I know Ubuntu has a "server" version, but fundamentally
> Ubuntu's selection of kernels and feature churn make it less than ideal
> for server deployments.
> 
> I am sure someone can post that they use Ubuntu just fine for server
> deployments, but I continue to feel that Ubuntu is chosen by
> administrators because it an OS they are familiar with on workstations,
> rather than it being the best choice for servers.

I'm not a full-time sysadmin. I chose Ubuntu because I have familiarity with 
it, and because installing Puppet on it installed the certificates and 
everything I needed to get going. I tried Debian, but I had to fight and find 
the correct procedures to install the Puppet certificates and all. Ubuntu saved 
me some time back then.

Cheers!
François

smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature


Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-09 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Christofer C. Bell
 wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:03 PM, François Beausoleil
>  wrote:
>> Hi all!
>>
>> Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance issues 
>> on a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot, between 5 
>> and 50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate some of the 
>> issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering FreeBSD, but I'm 
>> willing to learn if I'll get some performance enhancements out of the switch.
>>
>> $ uname -a
>> Linux munn.ca.seevibes.com 3.2.0-58-generic #88-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 
>> 17:37:58 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
> From the research I've done online, this is likely your issue.  Kernel
> 3.2.0 has some issues that directly and severely impact I/O wait times
> for PostgreSQL.  The suggested fixes (that seem to have worked for
> most people reporting in) are to revert the OS to Ubuntu Server 10.04
> or to install one of the HWE (HardWare Enablement) kernels into the
> 12.04 system (this would be one of the kernels from a later release of
> Ubuntu provided in the 12.04 repositories).

12.04 supports 3.8.0 directly. There's a site on putting 3.10.17 or so
on it as well I found by googling for it. You need 3.10+ if you wanna
play with bcache which is how I found it. But you don't need to jump
through any hoops to get 3.8.0 on 12.04.4 LTS

-- 
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-09 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Wed, Apr  9, 2014 at 10:02:07AM -0500, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:03 PM, François Beausoleil
>  wrote:
> > Hi all!
> >
> > Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance issues 
> > on a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot, between 5 
> > and 50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate some of 
> > the issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering FreeBSD, but 
> > I'm willing to learn if I'll get some performance enhancements out of the 
> > switch.
> >
> > $ uname -a
> > Linux munn.ca.seevibes.com 3.2.0-58-generic #88-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 
> > 17:37:58 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
> 
> From the research I've done online, this is likely your issue.  Kernel
> 3.2.0 has some issues that directly and severely impact I/O wait times
> for PostgreSQL.  The suggested fixes (that seem to have worked for
> most people reporting in) are to revert the OS to Ubuntu Server 10.04
> or to install one of the HWE (HardWare Enablement) kernels into the
> 12.04 system (this would be one of the kernels from a later release of
> Ubuntu provided in the 12.04 repositories).

This highlights a more fundamental problem of the difference between a
workstation-based on OS like Ubuntu and a server-based one like Debian
or FreeBSD.  I know Ubuntu has a "server" version, but fundamentally
Ubuntu's selection of kernels and feature churn make it less than ideal
for server deployments.

I am sure someone can post that they use Ubuntu just fine for server
deployments, but I continue to feel that Ubuntu is chosen by
administrators because it an OS they are familiar with on workstations,
rather than it being the best choice for servers.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

  + Everyone has their own god. +


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-09 Thread Christofer C. Bell
On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:03 PM, François Beausoleil
 wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance issues 
> on a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot, between 5 
> and 50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate some of the 
> issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering FreeBSD, but I'm 
> willing to learn if I'll get some performance enhancements out of the switch.
>
> $ uname -a
> Linux munn.ca.seevibes.com 3.2.0-58-generic #88-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 17:37:58 
> UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

From the research I've done online, this is likely your issue.  Kernel
3.2.0 has some issues that directly and severely impact I/O wait times
for PostgreSQL.  The suggested fixes (that seem to have worked for
most people reporting in) are to revert the OS to Ubuntu Server 10.04
or to install one of the HWE (HardWare Enablement) kernels into the
12.04 system (this would be one of the kernels from a later release of
Ubuntu provided in the 12.04 repositories).

-- 
Chris

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent
the Universe." -- Carl Sagan


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-08 Thread Vick Khera
On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:03 AM, François Beausoleil
 wrote:
> Our workload is lots of data import, followed by many queries to summarize 
> (daily and weekly reports). Our main table is a wide table that represents 
> Twitter and Facebook interactions. Most of our reports work on a week's worth 
> of data (table is partitioned by week), and the tables are approximately 25 
> GB plus 5 GB of indices, per week. Of course, while reports are ongoing, 
> we're also importing next week's data.
>
> The host is a dedicated hardware machine at online.fr
>
> : 128 GB RAM, 2 x 3TB disk in RAID 1 configuration.

I use FreeBSD pretty much exclusively. I would recommend using it to
anyone, but as others have said, there is a learning curve. If you are
comfortable on the command line, the curve is not that great. From a
postgres perspective, there is not that much difference once you dig
thru google to find a good set of OS settings (I'm happy to share
mine.)

That all said, I think you should do two things: First, improve your
disk system. Is your RAID soft or hardware? What file system do you
run on it? You want the file system to be the fastest you can have
that has the features you need. Pg is pretty good about crash
recovery, so having a log-based file system is not absolutely
necessary to save you there, but it depends on how much downtime you
can take for fsck to run. Since you're on spinning platters, you want
to peel off your pg_xlog directory to another set of drives in mirror
configuration. I personally like SSDs for this.  You probably also do
not need the lvm layer here either. You imply that you are analyzing
one week while loading the next week. Perhaps set up a second disk
mirror (instead of RAID10 all of the disks) and use a separate
postgres table space to load the data on the "other" mirror from the
one you are currently analyzing, like odd/even week numbers.

The second item is that you said you are using "wide tables". You will
be amazed at how much better you could do by properly normalizing your
data as you import it, rather than what seems like just storing log
events and picking out what you need for your summaries. Postgres is
exceptionally good at optimizing queries with joins and summaries. I
would put forth some effort simplifying how you store the data to
match more closely with the answers you want from it.


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-04 Thread Achilleas Mantzios

As a side note, when we migrated the exact same pgsql 8.3 system from linux 
kernel 2.6 to 3.6,
we experienced an almost dramatic slowdown by 6 times.
Linux Kernel's were known to have issues around those dates, i recall.
We had to set synchronous_commit to off, this gave a huge boost ,
but this was no longer "apples" vs "apples".

On 04/04/2014 07:03, François Beausoleil wrote:

Hi all!

Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance issues on 
a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot, between 5 and 
50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate some of the 
issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering FreeBSD, but I'm 
willing to learn if I'll get some performance enhancements out of the switch.

Our workload is lots of data import, followed by many queries to summarize 
(daily and weekly reports). Our main table is a wide table that represents 
Twitter and Facebook interactions. Most of our reports work on a week's worth 
of data (table is partitioned by week), and the tables are approximately 25 GB 
plus 5 GB of indices, per week. Of course, while reports are ongoing, we're 
also importing next week's data.

The host is a dedicated hardware machine at online.fr: 128 GB RAM, 2 x 3TB disk 
in RAID 1 configuration.

I started thinking of this after reading "PostgreSQL pain points" at 
https://lwn.net/Articles/591723/. In the comments, bronson says FreeBSD does not exhibit 
the same problems (slow fsync, double buffering). On the list here, I've read about 
problems with certain kernel versions on Ubuntu.

I'm not expecting anything magical, just some general guidelines and hints. Did 
anybody do the migration and was happier after?

Thanks for any hints!
François Beausoleil

$ uname -a
Linux munn.ca.seevibes.com 3.2.0-58-generic #88-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 17:37:58 
UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

$ psql -U postgres -c "select version()"
version
-
  PostgreSQL 9.1.11 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 
4.6.3-1ubuntu5) 4.6.3, 64-bit

/proc/cpuinfo says: 8 CPUs, identified as "Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2609 0 @ 
2.40GHz"




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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-04 Thread François Beausoleil

Le 2014-04-04 à 08:11, Ray Stell a écrit :

> 
> On Apr 4, 2014, at 12:03 AM, François Beausoleil  wrote:
> 
>> I have some performance issues on a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. 
>> iowait varies a lot, between 5 and 50%. 
> 
> Is the SAN dedicated to this app?  I wonder if the i/o, if not related to 
> your app, is being pressed by some other system/s that are also on the SAN?  
> You'll need to relate the wait events to your activities. I've been squeezed 
> like that in the past. 

There are no SAN: it's a dedicated machine, dedicated hardware. As John Pierce 
guessed, having more disks would help. I should probably look more towards that 
than switching OS.

Thanks!
François

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-04 Thread Ray Stell

On Apr 4, 2014, at 12:03 AM, François Beausoleil  wrote:

> I have some performance issues on a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. 
> iowait varies a lot, between 5 and 50%. 

Is the SAN dedicated to this app?  I wonder if the i/o, if not related to your 
app, is being pressed by some other system/s that are also on the SAN?  You'll 
need to relate the wait events to your activities. I've been squeezed like that 
in the past. 


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-04 Thread Achilleas Mantzios

FreeBSD is OK if you are experienced. As a system it requires much more 
maturity by the admin
than lets say Ubuntu which is targeted at a larger user base.
I'd say, explore your other Linux options first, since you already have 
experience with Linux.
FreeBSD requires a much bigger learning curve.

On 04/04/2014 07:03, François Beausoleil wrote:

Hi all!

Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance issues on 
a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot, between 5 and 
50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate some of the 
issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering FreeBSD, but I'm 
willing to learn if I'll get some performance enhancements out of the switch.

Our workload is lots of data import, followed by many queries to summarize 
(daily and weekly reports). Our main table is a wide table that represents 
Twitter and Facebook interactions. Most of our reports work on a week's worth 
of data (table is partitioned by week), and the tables are approximately 25 GB 
plus 5 GB of indices, per week. Of course, while reports are ongoing, we're 
also importing next week's data.

The host is a dedicated hardware machine at online.fr: 128 GB RAM, 2 x 3TB disk 
in RAID 1 configuration.

I started thinking of this after reading "PostgreSQL pain points" at 
https://lwn.net/Articles/591723/. In the comments, bronson says FreeBSD does not exhibit 
the same problems (slow fsync, double buffering). On the list here, I've read about 
problems with certain kernel versions on Ubuntu.

I'm not expecting anything magical, just some general guidelines and hints. Did 
anybody do the migration and was happier after?

Thanks for any hints!
François Beausoleil

$ uname -a
Linux munn.ca.seevibes.com 3.2.0-58-generic #88-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 17:37:58 
UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

$ psql -U postgres -c "select version()"
version
-
  PostgreSQL 9.1.11 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 
4.6.3-1ubuntu5) 4.6.3, 64-bit

/proc/cpuinfo says: 8 CPUs, identified as "Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2609 0 @ 
2.40GHz"




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Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-03 Thread Amitabh Kant
On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 9:33 AM, François Beausoleil wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance
> issues on a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot,
> between 5 and 50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate
> some of the issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering
> FreeBSD, but I'm willing to learn if I'll get some performance enhancements
> out of the switch.
>
> Our workload is lots of data import, followed by many queries to summarize
> (daily and weekly reports). Our main table is a wide table that represents
> Twitter and Facebook interactions. Most of our reports work on a week's
> worth of data (table is partitioned by week), and the tables are
> approximately 25 GB plus 5 GB of indices, per week. Of course, while
> reports are ongoing, we're also importing next week's data.
>
> The host is a dedicated hardware machine at online.fr: 128 GB RAM, 2 x
> 3TB disk in RAID 1 configuration.
>
> I started thinking of this after reading "PostgreSQL pain points" at
> https://lwn.net/Articles/591723/. In the comments, bronson says FreeBSD
> does not exhibit the same problems (slow fsync, double buffering). On the
> list here, I've read about problems with certain kernel versions on Ubuntu.
>
> I'm not expecting anything magical, just some general guidelines and
> hints. Did anybody do the migration and was happier after?
>
> Thanks for any hints!
> François Beausoleil
>
> $ uname -a
> Linux munn.ca.seevibes.com 3.2.0-58-generic #88-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3
> 17:37:58 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
> $ psql -U postgres -c "select version()"
>version
>
> -
>  PostgreSQL 9.1.11 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc
> (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5) 4.6.3, 64-bit
>
> /proc/cpuinfo says: 8 CPUs, identified as "Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2609 0
> @ 2.40GHz"
>
>

Cannot give you a comparison, but running couple of dedicated PG servers
(9.1 & 9.2) on FreeBSD 9.x. Not seen much of a problem, apart from tuning
some sysctl variables for higher memory usage. My hardware uses either SAS
or SSD disks. RAM varies between 32 to 128 GB between various servers. My
workload is more of lots of small read and writes.

Amitabh


Re: [GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-03 Thread John R Pierce

On 4/3/2014 9:03 PM, François Beausoleil wrote:

The host is a dedicated hardware machine at online.fr: 128 GB RAM, 2 x 3TB disk 
in RAID 1 configuration.


just a passing comment...

3TB disks are 7200rpm and suitable for nearline bulk storage (or desktop 
use), not high performance database random access. you'd get way more IO 
throughput with a raid10 array of 15k rpm SAS disks, maybe 10 x 600GB or 
whatever, or with a suitable SSD configuration, although 3TB of SSD 
might get expensive.




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[GENERAL] Linux vs FreeBSD

2014-04-03 Thread François Beausoleil
Hi all!

Does PG perform that much better on FreeBSD? I have some performance issues on 
a Ubuntu 12.04 which I'd like to resolve. iowait varies a lot, between 5 and 
50%. Does FreeBSD better schedule I/O, which could alleviate some of the 
issues, or not at all? I have no experience administering FreeBSD, but I'm 
willing to learn if I'll get some performance enhancements out of the switch.

Our workload is lots of data import, followed by many queries to summarize 
(daily and weekly reports). Our main table is a wide table that represents 
Twitter and Facebook interactions. Most of our reports work on a week's worth 
of data (table is partitioned by week), and the tables are approximately 25 GB 
plus 5 GB of indices, per week. Of course, while reports are ongoing, we're 
also importing next week's data.

The host is a dedicated hardware machine at online.fr: 128 GB RAM, 2 x 3TB disk 
in RAID 1 configuration.

I started thinking of this after reading "PostgreSQL pain points" at 
https://lwn.net/Articles/591723/. In the comments, bronson says FreeBSD does 
not exhibit the same problems (slow fsync, double buffering). On the list here, 
I've read about problems with certain kernel versions on Ubuntu.

I'm not expecting anything magical, just some general guidelines and hints. Did 
anybody do the migration and was happier after?

Thanks for any hints!
François Beausoleil

$ uname -a
Linux munn.ca.seevibes.com 3.2.0-58-generic #88-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 17:37:58 
UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

$ psql -U postgres -c "select version()"
   version
-
 PostgreSQL 9.1.11 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 
4.6.3-1ubuntu5) 4.6.3, 64-bit

/proc/cpuinfo says: 8 CPUs, identified as "Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2609 0 @ 
2.40GHz"



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux OOM-Killer

2014-03-17 Thread Adrian Klaver

On 03/17/2014 04:21 AM, basti wrote:

uname -a
Linux h2085616 3.2.0-3-amd64 #1 SMP Mon Jul 23 02:45:17 UTC 2012 x86_64
GNU/Linux

At any time there are not more than 20-30 Connections at once.

Swap is disabled.
free -m
  total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem: 32215  16163  16051  0 40  14842
-/+ buffers/cache:   1281  30934
Swap:0  0  0


With the updates there is a little bit tricky:
https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Nov2013ReplicationIssue

If you are currently using 9.2.4, 9.1.9 or 9.0.13 and use any form of
builtin replication do not install the most recent update. Instead, wait
for the next update (9.2.6, 9.1.11 and 9.0.15) to come out.

Options for users who have already updated, or are running 9.3, include:

 if you are using 9.2.5, 9.1.10 or 9.0.14, downgrade your replica
servers to the prior update release (9.2.4, 9.1.9 or 9.0.13).




Well basically the above is saying (in your case) avoid 9.1.10 by either 
staying below 9.1.10 or skipping over it to a higher version. FYI 
currently the 9.1.x series is at 9.1.12



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux OOM-Killer

2014-03-17 Thread Albe Laurenz
basti wrote:
>>> Since a few days we had problems with the Linux OOM-Killer.
>>> Some simple query that normally take around 6-7 minutes now takes 5 hours.
>>> We did not change any configuration values the last days.
>>>
>>> First of all I have set
>>>
>>> vm.overcommit_memory=2
>>> vm.overcommit_ratio=80

> Swap is disabled.
> free -m
>  total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
> Mem: 32215  16163  16051  0 40  14842
> -/+ buffers/cache:   1281  30934
> Swap:0  0  0

That together means that you cannot use more than 80% of your
RAM.  Are you hitting that limit?

See the description of overcommit_ratio in
https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysctl/vm.txt

I would definitely add some swap.

Yours,
Laurenz Albe

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux OOM-Killer

2014-03-17 Thread Karsten Hilbert
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 12:21:30PM +0100, basti wrote:

> uname -a
> Linux h2085616 3.2.0-3-amd64 #1 SMP Mon Jul 23 02:45:17 UTC 2012 x86_64
> GNU/Linux
> 
> At any time there are not more than 20-30 Connections at once.
> 
> Swap is disabled.
> free -m
>  total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
> Mem: 32215  16163  16051  0 40  14842
> -/+ buffers/cache:   1281  30934
> Swap:0  0  0

One really should add at least a bit of swap (and monitor
it closely) such that an out of physical RAM situation
does not amount to a hard limit.

It doesn't matter if it is slow.

Karsten
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux OOM-Killer

2014-03-17 Thread basti
uname -a
Linux h2085616 3.2.0-3-amd64 #1 SMP Mon Jul 23 02:45:17 UTC 2012 x86_64
GNU/Linux

At any time there are not more than 20-30 Connections at once.

Swap is disabled.
free -m
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
Mem: 32215  16163  16051  0 40  14842
-/+ buffers/cache:   1281  30934
Swap:0  0  0


With the updates there is a little bit tricky:
https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Nov2013ReplicationIssue

If you are currently using 9.2.4, 9.1.9 or 9.0.13 and use any form of
builtin replication do not install the most recent update. Instead, wait
for the next update (9.2.6, 9.1.11 and 9.0.15) to come out.

Options for users who have already updated, or are running 9.3, include:

if you are using 9.2.5, 9.1.10 or 9.0.14, downgrade your replica
servers to the prior update release (9.2.4, 9.1.9 or 9.0.13).



On 17.03.2014 12:12, Tomas Vondra wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 17 Březen 2014, 11:45, basti wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> we have a database master Version:
>> PostgreSQL 9.1.6 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Debian
>> 4.7.2-2) 4.7.2, 64-bit
>> and a WAL-Replication Slave with hot-standby version:
>> PostgreSQL 9.1.9 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Debian
>> 4.7.2-5) 4.7.2, 64-bit.
> 
> You're missing >18 months of fixes on the master (slightly less on the
> slave).
> 
>> Since a few days we had problems with the Linux OOM-Killer.
>> Some simple query that normally take around 6-7 minutes now takes 5 hours.
>> We did not change any configuration values the last days.
>>
>> First of all I have set
>>
>> vm.overcommit_memory=2
>> vm.overcommit_ratio=80
>>
>> Here are some values of my DB-Master config, the Server has 32GB RAM and
>> is only for database, no other service.
>> Did anybody see some mistakes?
> 
> How much swap do you have?
> 
>> I'am not shure if work_mem, maintenance_work_mem and
>> effective_cache_size is set correct.
> 
> That's hard to say. I don't see any immediate issue there, but it really
> depends on your application. For example 200 connections with
> work_mem=192MB may be dangerous if many connections are active at the same
> time.
> 
>>
>> /etc/postgresql/9.1/main/postgresql.conf
>>
>> max_connections = 200
>> ssl = true
>> shared_buffers = 6GB # min 128kB
>> work_mem = 192MB # min 64kB
>> maintenance_work_mem = 1GB   # min 1MB
>> wal_level = hot_standby
>> synchronous_commit = off
>> wal_buffers = 16MB
>> checkpoint_segments = 16
>> checkpoint_completion_target = 0.9
>> archive_mode = on
>> archive_command = 'rsync -a %p -e "ssh -i
>> /var/lib/postgresql/.ssh/id_rsa"
>> postgres@my_postgres_slave:/var/lib/postgresql/9.1/wals/dolly_main/%f
>> > max_wal_senders = 1
>> wal_keep_segments = 32
>> random_page_cost = 2.0
>> effective_cache_size = 22GB
>> default_statistics_target = 100
>> constraint_exclusion = off
>> join_collapse_limit = 1
>> logging_collector = on
>> log_directory = 'pg_log'
>> log_filename = 'postgresql-%Y-%m-%d.log'
>> log_min_duration_statement = 4
>> log_lock_waits = on
>> track_counts = on
>> autovacuum = on
>> log_autovacuum_min_duration = 5000
>> autovacuum_max_workers = 4
>> datestyle = 'iso, dmy'
>> deadlock_timeout = 1s
> 
> So what does the query do? Show us explain plan (explain analyze would be
> nice, but if it's running so slow).
> 
> Which kernel is this? When the OOM strikes, it should print detailed into
> into the log - what does it say?
> 
> When you look at "top" output, which processes consume most memory? Are
> there multiple backends consuming a lot of memory? What queries are they
> running?
> 
> Assuming you have a monitoring system in place, collecting memory stats
> (you should have that), what does it say about history? Is there a sudden
> increase in consumed memory or something suspicious?
> 
> regards
> Tomas
> 


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux OOM-Killer

2014-03-17 Thread Tomas Vondra
Hi,

On 17 Březen 2014, 11:45, basti wrote:
> Hello,
>
> we have a database master Version:
> PostgreSQL 9.1.6 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Debian
> 4.7.2-2) 4.7.2, 64-bit
> and a WAL-Replication Slave with hot-standby version:
> PostgreSQL 9.1.9 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Debian
> 4.7.2-5) 4.7.2, 64-bit.

You're missing >18 months of fixes on the master (slightly less on the
slave).

> Since a few days we had problems with the Linux OOM-Killer.
> Some simple query that normally take around 6-7 minutes now takes 5 hours.
> We did not change any configuration values the last days.
>
> First of all I have set
>
> vm.overcommit_memory=2
> vm.overcommit_ratio=80
>
> Here are some values of my DB-Master config, the Server has 32GB RAM and
> is only for database, no other service.
> Did anybody see some mistakes?

How much swap do you have?

> I'am not shure if work_mem, maintenance_work_mem and
> effective_cache_size is set correct.

That's hard to say. I don't see any immediate issue there, but it really
depends on your application. For example 200 connections with
work_mem=192MB may be dangerous if many connections are active at the same
time.

>
> /etc/postgresql/9.1/main/postgresql.conf
>
> max_connections = 200
> ssl = true
> shared_buffers = 6GB  # min 128kB
> work_mem = 192MB  # min 64kB
> maintenance_work_mem = 1GB# min 1MB
> wal_level = hot_standby
> synchronous_commit = off
> wal_buffers = 16MB
> checkpoint_segments = 16
> checkpoint_completion_target = 0.9
> archive_mode = on
> archive_command = 'rsync -a %p -e "ssh -i
> /var/lib/postgresql/.ssh/id_rsa"
> postgres@my_postgres_slave:/var/lib/postgresql/9.1/wals/dolly_main/%f
>  max_wal_senders = 1
> wal_keep_segments = 32
> random_page_cost = 2.0
> effective_cache_size = 22GB
> default_statistics_target = 100
> constraint_exclusion = off
> join_collapse_limit = 1
> logging_collector = on
> log_directory = 'pg_log'
> log_filename = 'postgresql-%Y-%m-%d.log'
> log_min_duration_statement = 4
> log_lock_waits = on
> track_counts = on
> autovacuum = on
> log_autovacuum_min_duration = 5000
> autovacuum_max_workers = 4
> datestyle = 'iso, dmy'
> deadlock_timeout = 1s

So what does the query do? Show us explain plan (explain analyze would be
nice, but if it's running so slow).

Which kernel is this? When the OOM strikes, it should print detailed into
into the log - what does it say?

When you look at "top" output, which processes consume most memory? Are
there multiple backends consuming a lot of memory? What queries are they
running?

Assuming you have a monitoring system in place, collecting memory stats
(you should have that), what does it say about history? Is there a sudden
increase in consumed memory or something suspicious?

regards
Tomas



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[GENERAL] Linux OOM-Killer

2014-03-17 Thread basti
Hello,

we have a database master Version:
PostgreSQL 9.1.6 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Debian
4.7.2-2) 4.7.2, 64-bit
and a WAL-Replication Slave with hot-standby version:
PostgreSQL 9.1.9 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Debian
4.7.2-5) 4.7.2, 64-bit.

Since a few days we had problems with the Linux OOM-Killer.
Some simple query that normally take around 6-7 minutes now takes 5 hours.
We did not change any configuration values the last days.

First of all I have set

vm.overcommit_memory=2
vm.overcommit_ratio=80

Here are some values of my DB-Master config, the Server has 32GB RAM and
is only for database, no other service.
Did anybody see some mistakes?

I'am not shure if work_mem, maintenance_work_mem and
effective_cache_size is set correct.

/etc/postgresql/9.1/main/postgresql.conf

max_connections = 200   
ssl = true  
shared_buffers = 6GB# min 128kB
work_mem = 192MB# min 64kB
maintenance_work_mem = 1GB  # min 1MB
wal_level = hot_standby 
synchronous_commit = off
wal_buffers = 16MB  
checkpoint_segments = 16
checkpoint_completion_target = 0.9  
archive_mode = on   
archive_command = 'rsync -a %p -e "ssh -i
/var/lib/postgresql/.ssh/id_rsa"
postgres@my_postgres_slave:/var/lib/postgresql/9.1/wals/dolly_main/%f
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-17 Thread Vincent Veyron
Le dimanche 13 janvier 2013 à 18:27 +, Shaun Thomas a écrit :

> I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat curious: 
> what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid PostgreSQL 
> installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between RHEL, CentOS, and 
> Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else thought.
> 

A few interesting comments for you in this discussion, maybe :

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/01/17/160249/centos-59-released



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-16 Thread SUNDAY A. OLUTAYO

- Original Message -
From: "Stuart Bishop" 
To: "Bruce Momjian" 
Cc: "Scott Marlowe" , "SUNDAY A. OLUTAYO" 
, "Gavin Flower" , "Chris 
Ernst" , pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:00:56 PM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 08:46:58PM -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote:
>> The reasons to NOT use ubuntu under PostgreSQL are primarily that 1:
>> they often choose a pretty meh grade kernel with performance
>> regressions for their initial LTS release.  I.e. they'll choose a
>> 3.4.0 kernel over a very stable 3.2.latest kernel, and then patch away
>> til the LTS becomes stable.  This is especially problematic the first
>> 6 to 12 months after an LTS release.

I wouldn't call it a reason not to use Ubuntu, but a reason why you
might want to use the previous LTS release. The kernel chosen needs to
be supported for 5 years, yet remain stable enough for the supported
application releases to be supported for 5 years.


On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Bruce Momjian  wrote:

> This really sums it up for me.  Do you need the most recent kernel with
> all the performance enhancements and new hardware support, and if so,
> are you willing to accept frequent updates and breakage as the bugs are
> fixed?

I hear lots of people like to wait for the .1 release of the LTS for
this sort of reason. It seems a common policy for applications too,
steering clear of .0 releases in favor of waiting for the initial
patch release.

-- 
Stuart Bishop 
http://www.stuartbishop.net/

I always wait for one year to lapse before upgrading to the latest LTS



Thanks, 

Sunday Olutayo 



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-16 Thread Stuart Bishop
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 08:46:58PM -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote:
>> The reasons to NOT use ubuntu under PostgreSQL are primarily that 1:
>> they often choose a pretty meh grade kernel with performance
>> regressions for their initial LTS release.  I.e. they'll choose a
>> 3.4.0 kernel over a very stable 3.2.latest kernel, and then patch away
>> til the LTS becomes stable.  This is especially problematic the first
>> 6 to 12 months after an LTS release.

I wouldn't call it a reason not to use Ubuntu, but a reason why you
might want to use the previous LTS release. The kernel chosen needs to
be supported for 5 years, yet remain stable enough for the supported
application releases to be supported for 5 years.


On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Bruce Momjian  wrote:

> This really sums it up for me.  Do you need the most recent kernel with
> all the performance enhancements and new hardware support, and if so,
> are you willing to accept frequent updates and breakage as the bugs are
> fixed?

I hear lots of people like to wait for the .1 release of the LTS for
this sort of reason. It seems a common policy for applications too,
steering clear of .0 releases in favor of waiting for the initial
patch release.

-- 
Stuart Bishop 
http://www.stuartbishop.net/


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-15 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Bruce Momjian  wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 08:46:58PM -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote:
>> The reasons to NOT use ubuntu under PostgreSQL are primarily that 1:
>> they often choose a pretty meh grade kernel with performance
>> regressions for their initial LTS release.  I.e. they'll choose a
>> 3.4.0 kernel over a very stable 3.2.latest kernel, and then patch away
>> til the LTS becomes stable.  This is especially problematic the first
>> 6 to 12 months after an LTS release.
>
> This really sums it up for me.  Do you need the most recent kernel with
> all the performance enhancements and new hardware support, and if so,
> are you willing to accept frequent updates and breakage as the bugs are
> fixed?

Yeah.  If you just started development and expect to deploy in 6 to 12
months time it's pretty acceptable.  If the distro's been out a year
it's ok.  If you already have a solid and reliable infrastructure,
then you should be doing a LOT of stress testing before using a new
distro.


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-15 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 08:46:58PM -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote:
> The reasons to NOT use ubuntu under PostgreSQL are primarily that 1:
> they often choose a pretty meh grade kernel with performance
> regressions for their initial LTS release.  I.e. they'll choose a
> 3.4.0 kernel over a very stable 3.2.latest kernel, and then patch away
> til the LTS becomes stable.  This is especially problematic the first
> 6 to 12 months after an LTS release.

This really sums it up for me.  Do you need the most recent kernel with
all the performance enhancements and new hardware support, and if so,
are you willing to accept frequent updates and breakage as the bugs are
fixed?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

  + It's impossible for everything to be true. +


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-15 Thread Vincent Veyron
Le mardi 15 janvier 2013 à 07:52 -0700, Scott Marlowe a écrit :
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 4:54 AM, Vincent Veyron  wrote:
> > Le lundi 14 janvier 2013 à 16:35 -0600, Shaun Thomas a écrit :
> >
> >> My personal server is on Debian too, with a similar uptime. But we
> >> recently ran into this guy on our 12.04 Ubuntu systems:
> >>
> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1055222
> >>
> >
> > Ha, so you seem to need to use the X windows system, which I do not use
> > on my servers, so I can't speak for that.
> 
> I don't see how that shows the previous poster needs X Windows.

Admittedly inferred from reading this thread :

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/9069/benefiting-of-sched-autogroup-enabled-on-the-desktop

and the fact that the systems were turned off, so not online servers but
workstations.

I might have been jumping to conclusions (I did write seem to need)

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-15 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 4:54 AM, Vincent Veyron  wrote:
> Le lundi 14 janvier 2013 à 16:35 -0600, Shaun Thomas a écrit :
>
>> My personal server is on Debian too, with a similar uptime. But we
>> recently ran into this guy on our 12.04 Ubuntu systems:
>>
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1055222
>>
>
> Ha, so you seem to need to use the X windows system, which I do not use
> on my servers, so I can't speak for that.

I don't see how that shows the previous poster needs X Windows.


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-15 Thread Vincent Veyron
Le mardi 15 janvier 2013 à 12:54 +0100, Daniel Verite a écrit :
>   Vincent Veyron wrote:
> 
> > 
> > > On Debian/Ubuntu, the default behavior is to have SSL enabled out
> > > of the box, including for TCP connections to localhost.
> > 
> > It is in Ubuntu, but not in Debian.
> 
> No, I've seen it a number of times with Debian. pg_createcluster will enable
> SSL in postgresql.conf if it finds usable certificates under /etc/ssl.
> When it doesn't, it's because of an antiquated version of postgresql-common,
> or lack of certificates, or non-standard permissions to them.
> 

I stand corrected! You appear to be right, I should have checked my
notes :

#edit /etc/postgresql/8.4/main/postgresql.conf
#ssl=true

after upgrading from 8.3

Sorry about that.

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-15 Thread Daniel Verite
Vincent Veyron wrote:

> 
> > On Debian/Ubuntu, the default behavior is to have SSL enabled out
> > of the box, including for TCP connections to localhost.
> 
> It is in Ubuntu, but not in Debian.

No, I've seen it a number of times with Debian. pg_createcluster will enable
SSL in postgresql.conf if it finds usable certificates under /etc/ssl.
When it doesn't, it's because of an antiquated version of postgresql-common,
or lack of certificates, or non-standard permissions to them.

More generally, Ubuntu vs Debian is not relevant for Postgres packages, they
are essentially identical at comparable version levels.

Best regards,
-- 
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-15 Thread Vincent Veyron
Le lundi 14 janvier 2013 à 16:35 -0600, Shaun Thomas a écrit :

> My personal server is on Debian too, with a similar uptime. But we 
> recently ran into this guy on our 12.04 Ubuntu systems:
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1055222
> 

Ha, so you seem to need to use the X windows system, which I do not use
on my servers, so I can't speak for that.


> Even calling canonical to ask about buying a support contract got us an 
> automated "We'll contact you within two business days" response, which 
> isn't exactly ideal. So we're strongly considering RHEL, because at 
> least they would call us back, and would give us some small amount of 
> peace knowing we could maybe get some assistance since we don't exactly 
> have a kernel dev on staff to find things like this.


I understand the reasoning; but I wonder : would it make sense for you
to pick one of the well known systems mentionned above thread, with a
specialist(*) catering to your installation/maintenance needs, and then
have another different one as a standby backup, ready to take over in
case of need?

I'm asking this because I try to find a way out of the 'big corporation
only talking to the big corporation' paradigm.

(* : typically a linux nerd, with long hair, a beard and shorts, who
knows his stuff; not a corporate drone)

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-14 Thread T. E. Lawrence

On 15.01.2013, at 00:28, Rich Shepard  wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013, T. E. Lawrence wrote:
> 
>> When forced on Linux we like Debian because it is so conservative (which
>> can sometimes drive one crazy, especially if one needs some cutting edge
>> feature).
> 
> T.
> 
>  Take a look at Slackware, too. Well back from the bleeding edge, but
> that's available if you must. :-)
> 
> Rich

Slackware is an interesting thing.

It is a distribution, as ancient as Debian, but far less known (at lest from 
the entrance of my cave).

Unfortunately I have never had the time to get to know it, but I know reliable 
people who think very high of it.

T.


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-14 Thread T. E. Lawrence
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat curious: 
> what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid PostgreSQL 
> installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between RHEL, CentOS, and 
> Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else thought.

We were on dedicated FreeBSD servers since FreeBSD 4/5 w/ PostgreSQL 7/8.

Then, when the cloud servers came and Rackspace had no FreeBSD, we changed to 
Debian.

Since Rackspace have FreeBSD, we are on FreeBSD 9 w/ PostgreSQL 9.

Nearly 200 GB database, 4 CPU cores, 8 GB RAM, some tables with more than 500m 
records, master w/ two slaves on asynchronous streaming replication.

Zero trouble.

We like FreeBSD, because, like PostgreSQL, it is a solid thing and not glued 
together like Linux.

When forced on Linux we like Debian because it is so conservative (which can 
sometimes drive one crazy, especially if one needs some cutting edge feature).

T.


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-14 Thread Shaun Thomas

On 01/14/2013 04:19 PM, Vincent Veyron wrote:


The only downtime I had in over two years was due a forced bios upgrade
by the hosting service, and I have no formal training in server
administration. Debian stable certainly works.


My personal server is on Debian too, with a similar uptime. But we 
recently ran into this guy on our 12.04 Ubuntu systems:


https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1055222

I sent a message to [Performance] a while back suggesting disabling this 
setting, and it's still true. But apparently if you set 
sched_autogroup_enabled to 0 via sysctl, you won't be able to boot 
because the kernel will panic before it finishes. Using the setting at 
all makes reboots crash. And apparently, some tasks can occasionally get 
into a bad state such that deallocating them causes a  kernel oops 
in set_task_cpu. That's hilariously bad, and all due to a merge from 
upstream from a few months ago.


I probably wrongly attributed this to Ubuntu since it's the top result 
in searching for 'sched_autogroup_enabled panic', but the real point was 
that there doesn't seem to be any official support. We couldn't escalate 
this problem to anyone anywhere, except by tagging the bug report or 
opening our own.


Even calling canonical to ask about buying a support contract got us an 
automated "We'll contact you within two business days" response, which 
isn't exactly ideal. So we're strongly considering RHEL, because at 
least they would call us back, and would give us some small amount of 
peace knowing we could maybe get some assistance since we don't exactly 
have a kernel dev on staff to find things like this.


We did figure it out eventually, but it took a couple hours to figure 
out why the machines wouldn't boot, and all weekend to fully isolate the 
problem as the cause of the other crashes.


So of course, we had to ask. I know this could have (and has, in my 
experience) happen to any distro, but it just seems more... prevalent in 
Ubuntu.


Then again, our older RHEL systems crashed like it was their job when we 
were using our onboard Broadcom NICs. Maybe we're expecting too much.


--
Shaun Thomas
OptionsHouse | 141 W. Jackson Blvd. | Suite 500 | Chicago IL, 60604
312-676-8870
stho...@optionshouse.com

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-14 Thread Vincent Veyron
Le lundi 14 janvier 2013 à 18:03 +0100, Daniel Verite a écrit :

> On Debian/Ubuntu, the default behavior is to have SSL enabled out
> of the box, including for TCP connections to localhost.

It is in Ubuntu, but not in Debian.

To the OP : I maintain three servers using Debian stable, each facing
the internet.  Lightly loaded (about 5 full time users each, using
specialized applications).  

The only maintenance I have is to regularly do 
apt-get update && apt-get upgrade.

The only downtime I had in over two years was due a forced bios upgrade
by the hosting service, and I have no formal training in server
administration. Debian stable certainly works.

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-14 Thread Daniel Verite
Edson Richter wrote:

> Do you have any fact that support RHEL being slower than others?
> I would like to improve our servers if we can get some ideas - so far, 
> we have tried Ubuntu LTS servers, and seems just as fast as RHEL for 
> PostgreSQL (tests made by issuing heavy queries).

On Debian/Ubuntu, the default behavior is to have SSL enabled out
of the box, including for TCP connections to localhost.
That may be a good idea for remote access, but for local/LAN connections,
it can slow things down quite significantly . The problem is that people end
up using SSL without needing or knowing it.

Of course it can be turned off by using hostnossl for specific hosts in
pg_hba.conf, or globally with SSL=off in postgresql.conf, or using Unix
domain sockets for local connections, but people not well-versed in PG are
often not aware of this.

Other than that, the rest of the packaging is awesome, especially the layer
that make it possible to manage several simultaneous PG instances.

Best regards,
-- 
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-14 Thread Gavin Flower

On 14/01/13 22:24, Hendrik Visage wrote:




On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Shaun Thomas 
mailto:stho...@optionshouse.com>> wrote:


Hey guys,

I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was
somewhat curious: what would be your ideal Linux distribution for
a nice solid PostgreSQL installation? We've kinda bounced back and
forth between RHEL, CentOS, and Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering
what everyone else thought.


Find the one that suits *you* (or rather your employer/client) and use 
that ;)


We can debate the pros and cons of each and every distro, and in the 
end it'll be the one that suits your (or your client/employer's) needs 
and makes you (or your client/employer) happy that'll win the battle.


In the bigger enterprises, RHEL and SuSE typically wins.
As you go down the Centos/Fedora/Ubuntu/Debians start to become more 
prevalent (license costs etc.)


The questions you'll need to ask and investigate:
1) Do I want license/support that I can pay somebody to look into my 
OS troubles?

2) How "active" is the community for this distro?
3) Which distros are the people around you using? (ie. 
replacement/backups/etc.)

4) Do you want bleeding/leading/stable/old releases?
5) Can you compile from source for this?
6) What OSes are your hosting/etc. supporting? (for the servers on the 
net out there)

7) Am I/company/client happy with this choice?


In essence...

It is that most irritating replies a highly paid consultant can give: 
"It depends!"


You have to decide what are the important criteria for your situation, 
the above list is a good starting point.  I would add 'security" & 
'performance' requirements.  I am well aware, that if I had attempted to 
provide a list, that I would have missed some of the questions Shaun 
raised.  I am sure other people can add good questions as well.


A lot depends on your actual situation, and your intended use cases.

In a few months, I may have to go through the same exercise for real. :-(


Cheers,
Gavin



Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-14 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Edson Richter  wrote:
> Em 14/01/2013 01:46, Scott Marlowe escreveu:
>>
>> My preference personally is for debian based distros since they
>> support the rather more elegant pg wrappers that allow you to run
>> multiple versions and multiple clusters of those versions with very
>> easy commands.  RHEL is great for building a stable but not
>> necessarily ultra faster server, and if you can afford their
>> commercial support it IS top notch.  Debian and Ubuntu feel much the
>> same to me, from the command line, on a server.
>
>
> Do you have any fact that support RHEL being slower than others?
> I would like to improve our servers if we can get some ideas - so far, we
> have tried Ubuntu LTS servers, and seems just as fast as RHEL for PostgreSQL
> (tests made by issuing heavy queries).

It's not that RHEL is real slow.  But in a lot of orgnizations you
might be running a 3 or 4 year old release, which may or may not be
real fast on newer hardware.  This isn't just RHEL, it's any old
release.  A lot of older kernels don't get the best of performance out
of numa or late model RAID controllers and so on.  OTOH they're often
very stable.  If RHEL5 is say 10% slower than the latest Fedora
release, that's likely a fair tradeoff of stability and support versus
performance.  I've been working with an older Debian release lately
and it's definitely quite a bit slower than ubuntu 12.04 on the same
biggish iron hardware.


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-14 Thread Hendrik Visage
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Shaun Thomas wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat
> curious: what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid
> PostgreSQL installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between RHEL,
> CentOS, and Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else thought.
>

Find the one that suits *you* (or rather your employer/client) and use that
;)

We can debate the pros and cons of each and every distro, and in the end
it'll be the one that suits your (or your client/employer's) needs and
makes you (or your client/employer) happy that'll win the battle.

In the bigger enterprises, RHEL and SuSE typically wins.
As you go down the Centos/Fedora/Ubuntu/Debians start to become more
prevalent (license costs etc.)

The questions you'll need to ask and investigate:
1) Do I want license/support that I can pay somebody to look into my OS
troubles?
2) How "active" is the community for this distro?
3) Which distros are the people around you using? (ie.
replacement/backups/etc.)
4) Do you want bleeding/leading/stable/old releases?
5) Can you compile from source for this?
6) What OSes are your hosting/etc. supporting? (for the servers on the net
out there)
7) Am I/company/client happy with this choice?


Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Condor

On 2013-01-14 00:44, Gavin Flower wrote:

On 14/01/13 07:27, Shaun Thomas wrote:


Hey guys,

I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat 
curious: what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid 
PostgreSQL installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between 
RHEL, CentOS, and Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else 
thought.


--
Shaun Thomas
OptionsHouse | 141 W. Jackson Blvd | Suite 500 | Chicago IL, 60604
312-676-8870
stho...@optionshouse.com

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 I would tend use Fedora for development, but would consider CentOS
(or RHEL, if we had the budget) for production - I avoid Ubuntu like
the plague.

 Cheers,
 Gavin


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I use Slackware and for me it's the perfect one. Some words are 
rotating in my mind:
There is no good or bad linux, exists only one that which you know and 
can work.


Cheers,
Hristo


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Scott Marlowe  wrote:
> Most importantly, if you've got LOTS of talent for one distro or
> another, you're probably best off exploiting it.  If 95% of all the
> developers and ops crew run Ubuntu or Debian, stick to one of them.
> If they favor Fedora / RHEL stick to that.  If they work on windows,
> find a new job if at all possible.

+1. It's the little things that make the difference; I can casually
switch across from any of our client boxes to any of our servers,
because they ALL run Debian Squeeze. And my home boxes and my personal
server are also all either Debian Squeeze or some flavour of Ubuntu.
Keep things as similar as possible and you avoid wasting time over
trivialities like whether you can run ifconfig without becoming root
first, or which shells and scripting languages you have available (for
me, Python, bash, and Pike cover all my normal needs). Downtime costs
you, yes, but also, don't keep your developers waiting, child! Why,
their time is worth a thousand pounds a minute (in 1871 currency).

And +1 to the last comment, too :)

ChrisA


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Gavin Flower

On 14/01/13 16:46, Scott Marlowe wrote:

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:06 PM, SUNDAY A. OLUTAYO  wrote:

4 reasons:

  1. One place where I worked Ubuntu was standard, I tried it and found
 that it lacked at least a couple of desktop features in GNOME 2 that
 I found very useful into Fedora. Fortunately, I was allowed to
 revert back to Fedora. Prior to that, I was using Fedora mainly by
 default.

  2. Twice I came across features that I liked and Ubuntu seemed to imply
 they had done them, later I found the projects been initiated and
 sponsored largely by Red Hat. Especially as Red Hat is in the top
 ten contributors to the kernel, and the contribution of Ubuntu is
 not significant.

  3. Ubuntu distributions are now starting to be filled with crapware and
 ant-privacy features features.

  4. Ubuntu seems very good at collecting fanbois.

Not one of those is a good reason to avoid Ubuntu server for pgsql.
There are reasons to not use it, but those are not them.  I've run
PostgreSQL servers on Redhat (before RHEL existed and there was JUST
Redhat) 5.1, RHEL 4, 5 and 6, Debian Lenny and Squeeze, just one on an
old version of Suse, and on Ubuntu server 8.04LTS and 10.04LTS and
12.04LTS.

My preference personally is for debian based distros since they
support the rather more elegant pg wrappers that allow you to run
multiple versions and multiple clusters of those versions with very
easy commands.  RHEL is great for building a stable but not
necessarily ultra faster server, and if you can afford their
commercial support it IS top notch.  Debian and Ubuntu feel much the
same to me, from the command line, on a server.

The reasons to NOT use ubuntu under PostgreSQL are primarily that 1:
they often choose a pretty meh grade kernel with performance
regressions for their initial LTS release.  I.e. they'll choose a
3.4.0 kernel over a very stable 3.2.latest kernel, and then patch away
til the LTS becomes stable.  This is especially problematic the first
6 to 12 months after an LTS release.  Ubuntu support is a pitiful
thing compared to RHEL support.  I've reported bugs for RHEL that were
fixed within weeks, or at least a workaround came out pretty quick.
I've reported LTS bugs that are now YEARS old and Canonical has done
NOTHING to fix them.  There's a bug in 10.04LTS workstation for
instance that meant you couldn't have > 1 profile for a given WAP.
Never fixed.  Only recommendation was to upgrade.  From an LTS.  sigh.

There are reasons TO use Ubuntu as well.  Of if you are running very
late model hardware you can't get good support from an older release,
and using a more recent, possibly not LTS release is a good way to get
best performance.  I have often installed a late model release like
11.10, to get support for odd / new / interesting / high performance
hardware, and then at a later date could update that platform to an
LTS release for stability.  Note that I often waited til a good 3 or 4
months after the next release before I even started testing it, let
alone upgrading to it.  Ubuntu often has fairly late model versions of
many packages like pgsql or php or whatever that more RHEL like
distros will not get due to their longer release cycles.  It's easier
to add a ppa: repo to debian or ubuntu than to add an RPM repo to RHEL
and I've found they're usually better maintained and / or more up to
date.

Simple answer of course is that there is no simple answer.

Frequently released / updated distros (fedora, ubuntu non-LTS, debian
beta and so on) are GREAT for doing initial development on, as once
the stable branch based on it comes out you'll be deploying against
something with a long stable release branch.  So the latest version of
Ruby, Perl, PHP, Python and so on are on the server, as are the
latest, or nearly so, versions of pgsql and slony and other packages.

Long term distros (debian stable, Ubuntu LTS, RHEL) are all good for
deploying things on you don't need the latest and greatest hardware
support nor the absolute fastest performance but instead stability are
paramount.  When downtime costs you $10k a minute, using the latest
code is not always the best idea.

Most importantly, if you've got LOTS of talent for one distro or
another, you're probably best off exploiting it.  If 95% of all the
developers and ops crew run Ubuntu or Debian, stick to one of them.
If they favor Fedora / RHEL stick to that.  If they work on windows,
find a new job if at all possible.

I have zero experience of setting up Linux as a _PRODUCTION_ server.

If I had to support one myself, I would probably consider RHEL. Anyhow, 
I would do some serious research before making a final decision.  Even 
if I had made such a decision a year ago, I would still need to reassess 
the situation if I had to do it again - things keep changing.


I would be very reluctant to choose an Apple or Microsoft O/S for a 
production server.



Cheers,
Gavin




Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Edson Richter

Em 14/01/2013 01:46, Scott Marlowe escreveu:

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:06 PM, SUNDAY A. OLUTAYO  wrote:

4 reasons:

  1. One place where I worked Ubuntu was standard, I tried it and found
 that it lacked at least a couple of desktop features in GNOME 2 that
 I found very useful into Fedora. Fortunately, I was allowed to
 revert back to Fedora. Prior to that, I was using Fedora mainly by
 default.

  2. Twice I came across features that I liked and Ubuntu seemed to imply
 they had done them, later I found the projects been initiated and
 sponsored largely by Red Hat. Especially as Red Hat is in the top
 ten contributors to the kernel, and the contribution of Ubuntu is
 not significant.

  3. Ubuntu distributions are now starting to be filled with crapware and
 ant-privacy features features.

  4. Ubuntu seems very good at collecting fanbois.

Not one of those is a good reason to avoid Ubuntu server for pgsql.
There are reasons to not use it, but those are not them.  I've run
PostgreSQL servers on Redhat (before RHEL existed and there was JUST
Redhat) 5.1, RHEL 4, 5 and 6, Debian Lenny and Squeeze, just one on an
old version of Suse, and on Ubuntu server 8.04LTS and 10.04LTS and
12.04LTS.

My preference personally is for debian based distros since they
support the rather more elegant pg wrappers that allow you to run
multiple versions and multiple clusters of those versions with very
easy commands.  RHEL is great for building a stable but not
necessarily ultra faster server, and if you can afford their
commercial support it IS top notch.  Debian and Ubuntu feel much the
same to me, from the command line, on a server.


Do you have any fact that support RHEL being slower than others?
I would like to improve our servers if we can get some ideas - so far, 
we have tried Ubuntu LTS servers, and seems just as fast as RHEL for 
PostgreSQL (tests made by issuing heavy queries).


Thanks,

Edson




The reasons to NOT use ubuntu under PostgreSQL are primarily that 1:
they often choose a pretty meh grade kernel with performance
regressions for their initial LTS release.  I.e. they'll choose a
3.4.0 kernel over a very stable 3.2.latest kernel, and then patch away
til the LTS becomes stable.  This is especially problematic the first
6 to 12 months after an LTS release.  Ubuntu support is a pitiful
thing compared to RHEL support.  I've reported bugs for RHEL that were
fixed within weeks, or at least a workaround came out pretty quick.
I've reported LTS bugs that are now YEARS old and Canonical has done
NOTHING to fix them.  There's a bug in 10.04LTS workstation for
instance that meant you couldn't have > 1 profile for a given WAP.
Never fixed.  Only recommendation was to upgrade.  From an LTS.  sigh.

There are reasons TO use Ubuntu as well.  Of if you are running very
late model hardware you can't get good support from an older release,
and using a more recent, possibly not LTS release is a good way to get
best performance.  I have often installed a late model release like
11.10, to get support for odd / new / interesting / high performance
hardware, and then at a later date could update that platform to an
LTS release for stability.  Note that I often waited til a good 3 or 4
months after the next release before I even started testing it, let
alone upgrading to it.  Ubuntu often has fairly late model versions of
many packages like pgsql or php or whatever that more RHEL like
distros will not get due to their longer release cycles.  It's easier
to add a ppa: repo to debian or ubuntu than to add an RPM repo to RHEL
and I've found they're usually better maintained and / or more up to
date.

Simple answer of course is that there is no simple answer.

Frequently released / updated distros (fedora, ubuntu non-LTS, debian
beta and so on) are GREAT for doing initial development on, as once
the stable branch based on it comes out you'll be deploying against
something with a long stable release branch.  So the latest version of
Ruby, Perl, PHP, Python and so on are on the server, as are the
latest, or nearly so, versions of pgsql and slony and other packages.

Long term distros (debian stable, Ubuntu LTS, RHEL) are all good for
deploying things on you don't need the latest and greatest hardware
support nor the absolute fastest performance but instead stability are
paramount.  When downtime costs you $10k a minute, using the latest
code is not always the best idea.

Most importantly, if you've got LOTS of talent for one distro or
another, you're probably best off exploiting it.  If 95% of all the
developers and ops crew run Ubuntu or Debian, stick to one of them.
If they favor Fedora / RHEL stick to that.  If they work on windows,
find a new job if at all possible.






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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:06 PM, SUNDAY A. OLUTAYO  wrote:
> 4 reasons:
>
>  1. One place where I worked Ubuntu was standard, I tried it and found
> that it lacked at least a couple of desktop features in GNOME 2 that
> I found very useful into Fedora. Fortunately, I was allowed to
> revert back to Fedora. Prior to that, I was using Fedora mainly by
> default.
>
>  2. Twice I came across features that I liked and Ubuntu seemed to imply
> they had done them, later I found the projects been initiated and
> sponsored largely by Red Hat. Especially as Red Hat is in the top
> ten contributors to the kernel, and the contribution of Ubuntu is
> not significant.
>
>  3. Ubuntu distributions are now starting to be filled with crapware and
> ant-privacy features features.
>
>  4. Ubuntu seems very good at collecting fanbois.

Not one of those is a good reason to avoid Ubuntu server for pgsql.
There are reasons to not use it, but those are not them.  I've run
PostgreSQL servers on Redhat (before RHEL existed and there was JUST
Redhat) 5.1, RHEL 4, 5 and 6, Debian Lenny and Squeeze, just one on an
old version of Suse, and on Ubuntu server 8.04LTS and 10.04LTS and
12.04LTS.

My preference personally is for debian based distros since they
support the rather more elegant pg wrappers that allow you to run
multiple versions and multiple clusters of those versions with very
easy commands.  RHEL is great for building a stable but not
necessarily ultra faster server, and if you can afford their
commercial support it IS top notch.  Debian and Ubuntu feel much the
same to me, from the command line, on a server.

The reasons to NOT use ubuntu under PostgreSQL are primarily that 1:
they often choose a pretty meh grade kernel with performance
regressions for their initial LTS release.  I.e. they'll choose a
3.4.0 kernel over a very stable 3.2.latest kernel, and then patch away
til the LTS becomes stable.  This is especially problematic the first
6 to 12 months after an LTS release.  Ubuntu support is a pitiful
thing compared to RHEL support.  I've reported bugs for RHEL that were
fixed within weeks, or at least a workaround came out pretty quick.
I've reported LTS bugs that are now YEARS old and Canonical has done
NOTHING to fix them.  There's a bug in 10.04LTS workstation for
instance that meant you couldn't have > 1 profile for a given WAP.
Never fixed.  Only recommendation was to upgrade.  From an LTS.  sigh.

There are reasons TO use Ubuntu as well.  Of if you are running very
late model hardware you can't get good support from an older release,
and using a more recent, possibly not LTS release is a good way to get
best performance.  I have often installed a late model release like
11.10, to get support for odd / new / interesting / high performance
hardware, and then at a later date could update that platform to an
LTS release for stability.  Note that I often waited til a good 3 or 4
months after the next release before I even started testing it, let
alone upgrading to it.  Ubuntu often has fairly late model versions of
many packages like pgsql or php or whatever that more RHEL like
distros will not get due to their longer release cycles.  It's easier
to add a ppa: repo to debian or ubuntu than to add an RPM repo to RHEL
and I've found they're usually better maintained and / or more up to
date.

Simple answer of course is that there is no simple answer.

Frequently released / updated distros (fedora, ubuntu non-LTS, debian
beta and so on) are GREAT for doing initial development on, as once
the stable branch based on it comes out you'll be deploying against
something with a long stable release branch.  So the latest version of
Ruby, Perl, PHP, Python and so on are on the server, as are the
latest, or nearly so, versions of pgsql and slony and other packages.

Long term distros (debian stable, Ubuntu LTS, RHEL) are all good for
deploying things on you don't need the latest and greatest hardware
support nor the absolute fastest performance but instead stability are
paramount.  When downtime costs you $10k a minute, using the latest
code is not always the best idea.

Most importantly, if you've got LOTS of talent for one distro or
another, you're probably best off exploiting it.  If 95% of all the
developers and ops crew run Ubuntu or Debian, stick to one of them.
If they favor Fedora / RHEL stick to that.  If they work on windows,
find a new job if at all possible.


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread David Boreham


I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat 
curious: what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid 
PostgreSQL installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between 
RHEL, CentOS, and Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else 
thought.


We run CentOS (mixture of 5 and 6, but 6 in all newer installations). 
I've never used Ubuntu so can't comment on it.
We get PG from the PGDG repository, after disabling the distribution's 
PG installation in order to maintain tight control over the build/version.







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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Edson Richter

Em 13/01/2013 16:27, Shaun Thomas escreveu:

Hey guys,

I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat curious: 
what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid PostgreSQL 
installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between RHEL, CentOS, and 
Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else thought.

--
Shaun Thomas
OptionsHouse | 141 W. Jackson Blvd | Suite 500 | Chicago IL, 60604
312-676-8870
stho...@optionshouse.com



__

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this email


I do use CentOS 5 and 6 for servers - they run without any glitches in 
decent servers. Don't use then on self made servers with 
strange/alternative SATA Raid controlers, it is the hell on earth. Use 
good hardware and you will be fine.

Check the HCL of RedHat Enterprise.

Edson




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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Adrian Klaver

On 01/13/2013 04:07 PM, Chris Ernst wrote:

On 01/13/2013 03:44 PM, Gavin Flower wrote:

I've seen the opinion of "avoid Ubuntu like the plague" expressed many
times, but it is never followed up with any solid reasoning.  Can you
(or anyone else) give specific details on exactly why you believe Ubuntu
should be avoided?


My take is that you have to look at Ubuntu as two distinct lines of 
distributions, desktop and server. I got into it for the desktop  and 
stayed for the server. The "avoid like a plague" tag tends to apply to 
the desktop line and to an extent is valid. Canonical seems to be 
leading a parade of one on a new graphical look for the desktop. So if 
you use the desktop version and follow the six month release cycle you 
are in for a ride. You can avoid that somewhat by using a LTS desktop, 
but the change will come and you will have to deal.


The server line on the other hand avoids the graphical desktop issue, so 
it tends to be less 'interesting'. If you stick with the LTS releases 
then it becomes even more stable. The nice part is that with PPAs you 
can backport newer releases of software to older LTS releases. For 
example and to get back on topic the Postgres PPA maintained by Martin Pitt:


https://launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/postgresql



 - Chris






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adrian.kla...@gmail.com


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Gavin Flower
Please don't top post, add your comments at the end as per the norm for 
this group.


On 14/01/13 12:06, SUNDAY A. OLUTAYO wrote:

Ubuntu did the marketing for linux and many more. Some people are just haters. 
Can you tell us about upstart?

Sent from my LG Mobile

Gavin Flower  wrote:

On 14/01/13 13:07, Chris Ernst wrote:

On 01/13/2013 03:44 PM, Gavin Flower wrote:

I would tend use Fedora for development, but would consider CentOS (or
RHEL, if we had the budget) for production - I avoid Ubuntu like the
plague.

I happen to be doing my own research on this matter.  I tend to lean
more toward RHEL or CentOS for production servers just because there
seem to be more people using it in that capacity and it seem to be
easier to get solid support or advice for those. But I prefer Ubuntu
for my laptop mainly because of the size of the community, available
PPAs, ease of administration, etc...

Ultimately, it seem to come down to what you are most
familiar/comfortable managing.  I don't see much practical difference
between the distributions other than the versions of various software
that they ship with by default.  But that is usually rather easy to
change according to your needs anyway.

I've seen the opinion of "avoid Ubuntu like the plague" expressed many
times, but it is never followed up with any solid reasoning. Can you
(or anyone else) give specific details on exactly why you believe
Ubuntu should be avoided?

 - Chris




4 reasons:

  1. One place where I worked Ubuntu was standard, I tried it and found
 that it lacked at least a couple of desktop features in GNOME 2 that
 I found very useful into Fedora. Fortunately, I was allowed to
 revert back to Fedora. Prior to that, I was using Fedora mainly by
 default.

  2. Twice I came across features that I liked and Ubuntu seemed to imply
 they had done them, later I found the projects been initiated and
 sponsored largely by Red Hat. Especially as Red Hat is in the top
 ten contributors to the kernel, and the contribution of Ubuntu is
 not significant.

  3. Ubuntu distributions are now starting to be filled with crapware and
 ant-privacy features features.

  4. Ubuntu seems very good at collecting fanbois.

If I were to change from Fedora, I would probably go back to Debian.



Cheers,
Gavin

 I don't know much about 'upstart'  - Fedora uses systemd:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd


Cheers,
Gavin



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread SUNDAY A. OLUTAYO
Ubuntu did the marketing for linux and many more. Some people are just haters. 
Can you tell us about upstart? 

Sent from my LG Mobile

Gavin Flower  wrote:

On 14/01/13 13:07, Chris Ernst wrote:
> On 01/13/2013 03:44 PM, Gavin Flower wrote:
>> I would tend use Fedora for development, but would consider CentOS (or
>> RHEL, if we had the budget) for production - I avoid Ubuntu like the 
>> plague.
>
> I happen to be doing my own research on this matter.  I tend to lean 
> more toward RHEL or CentOS for production servers just because there 
> seem to be more people using it in that capacity and it seem to be 
> easier to get solid support or advice for those. But I prefer Ubuntu 
> for my laptop mainly because of the size of the community, available 
> PPAs, ease of administration, etc...
>
> Ultimately, it seem to come down to what you are most 
> familiar/comfortable managing.  I don't see much practical difference 
> between the distributions other than the versions of various software 
> that they ship with by default.  But that is usually rather easy to 
> change according to your needs anyway.
>
> I've seen the opinion of "avoid Ubuntu like the plague" expressed many 
> times, but it is never followed up with any solid reasoning. Can you 
> (or anyone else) give specific details on exactly why you believe 
> Ubuntu should be avoided?
>
> - Chris
>
>
>
4 reasons:

 1. One place where I worked Ubuntu was standard, I tried it and found
that it lacked at least a couple of desktop features in GNOME 2 that
I found very useful into Fedora. Fortunately, I was allowed to
revert back to Fedora. Prior to that, I was using Fedora mainly by
default.

 2. Twice I came across features that I liked and Ubuntu seemed to imply
they had done them, later I found the projects been initiated and
sponsored largely by Red Hat. Especially as Red Hat is in the top
ten contributors to the kernel, and the contribution of Ubuntu is
not significant.

 3. Ubuntu distributions are now starting to be filled with crapware and
ant-privacy features features.

 4. Ubuntu seems very good at collecting fanbois.

If I were to change from Fedora, I would probably go back to Debian.



Cheers,
Gavin


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Gavin Flower

On 14/01/13 13:07, Chris Ernst wrote:

On 01/13/2013 03:44 PM, Gavin Flower wrote:

I would tend use Fedora for development, but would consider CentOS (or
RHEL, if we had the budget) for production - I avoid Ubuntu like the 
plague.


I happen to be doing my own research on this matter.  I tend to lean 
more toward RHEL or CentOS for production servers just because there 
seem to be more people using it in that capacity and it seem to be 
easier to get solid support or advice for those. But I prefer Ubuntu 
for my laptop mainly because of the size of the community, available 
PPAs, ease of administration, etc...


Ultimately, it seem to come down to what you are most 
familiar/comfortable managing.  I don't see much practical difference 
between the distributions other than the versions of various software 
that they ship with by default.  But that is usually rather easy to 
change according to your needs anyway.


I've seen the opinion of "avoid Ubuntu like the plague" expressed many 
times, but it is never followed up with any solid reasoning. Can you 
(or anyone else) give specific details on exactly why you believe 
Ubuntu should be avoided?


- Chris




4 reasons:

1. One place where I worked Ubuntu was standard, I tried it and found
   that it lacked at least a couple of desktop features in GNOME 2 that
   I found very useful into Fedora. Fortunately, I was allowed to
   revert back to Fedora. Prior to that, I was using Fedora mainly by
   default.

2. Twice I came across features that I liked and Ubuntu seemed to imply
   they had done them, later I found the projects been initiated and
   sponsored largely by Red Hat. Especially as Red Hat is in the top
   ten contributors to the kernel, and the contribution of Ubuntu is
   not significant.

3. Ubuntu distributions are now starting to be filled with crapware and
   ant-privacy features features.

4. Ubuntu seems very good at collecting fanbois.

If I were to change from Fedora, I would probably go back to Debian.



Cheers,
Gavin


Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Steve Atkins

On Jan 13, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Shaun Thomas  wrote:

> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat curious: 
> what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid PostgreSQL 
> installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between RHEL, CentOS, and 
> Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else thought.


Either would be fine. RHEL is a bit more Enterprisey - which is either good or 
bad, depending on your use case. They're more conservative with updates than 
Ubuntu - which is good for service stability, but can be painful when you're 
stuck between using ancient versions of some app or stepping into the minefield 
of third party repos. (CentOS is pretty much just RHEL without support and 
without some of the management tools).

Ubuntu LTS is solid, and has good support for running multiple Postgresql 
clusters simultaneously, which is very handy if you're supporting multiple apps 
against the same database server, and they require different releases. I've 
been told that they occasionally make incompatible changes across minor 
releases, which is Bad, but it's never happened anywhere I've noticed - I've no 
idea if it's an actual issue or "Well, back in the 2004 release, they…" 
folklore.

I run both in production, both on VMs and real metal. I tend to use Ubuntu LTS 
for new installations just because I'm marginally more comfortable in the 
Ubuntu CLI environment, but there's really not much to choose between them.

Cheers,
  Steve



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Chris Ernst  wrote:
> I've seen the opinion of "avoid Ubuntu like the plague" expressed many
> times, but it is never followed up with any solid reasoning.  Can you (or
> anyone else) give specific details on exactly why you believe Ubuntu should
> be avoided?

I switched from Ubuntu to Debian a while ago, mainly on account of the
desktop environment, but moving servers as well for consistency.
Ubuntu has its advantages. At the moment, I'm half way through
patching a Debian system to the latest kernel and a recent Upstart
(rather than sysvinit), but Ubuntu already comes with a fairly recent
kernel and Upstart is the default.

So far, I haven't seen any particular reason to detest Ubuntu or
Debian. Both of them quite happily run everything I want, although
once it's been a year or two since the OS release, there's a strong
tendency to build stuff from source rather than rely on the aptitude
repositories - the repos lag a bit. But I'm okay with that. Maybe it's
an issue for other situations, though, in which case it's a
recommendation for Ubuntu probably.

In terms of PostgreSQL, I've always been using the OpenSCG package,
and have had no problems whatsoever (9.1).

ChrisA


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Chris Ernst

On 01/13/2013 03:44 PM, Gavin Flower wrote:

I would tend use Fedora for development, but would consider CentOS (or
RHEL, if we had the budget) for production - I avoid Ubuntu like the plague.


I happen to be doing my own research on this matter.  I tend to lean 
more toward RHEL or CentOS for production servers just because there 
seem to be more people using it in that capacity and it seem to be 
easier to get solid support or advice for those.  But I prefer Ubuntu 
for my laptop mainly because of the size of the community, available 
PPAs, ease of administration, etc...


Ultimately, it seem to come down to what you are most 
familiar/comfortable managing.  I don't see much practical difference 
between the distributions other than the versions of various software 
that they ship with by default.  But that is usually rather easy to 
change according to your needs anyway.


I've seen the opinion of "avoid Ubuntu like the plague" expressed many 
times, but it is never followed up with any solid reasoning.  Can you 
(or anyone else) give specific details on exactly why you believe Ubuntu 
should be avoided?


- Chris



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread SUNDAY A. OLUTAYO
I use Ubuntu for development and production, it is rock solid. 



Thanks, 

Sunday Olutayo 


- Original Message -

From: "Gavin Flower"  
To: "Shaun Thomas"  
Cc: "pgsql-general@postgresql.org"  
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:44:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences? 


On 14/01/13 07:27, Shaun Thomas wrote: 


Hey guys,

I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat curious: 
what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid PostgreSQL 
installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between RHEL, CentOS, and 
Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else thought.

--
Shaun Thomas
OptionsHouse | 141 W. Jackson Blvd | Suite 500 | Chicago IL, 60604
312-676-8870 stho...@optionshouse.com 
__

See http://www.peak6.com/email_disclaimer/ for terms and conditions related to 
this email 

I would tend use Fedora for development, but would consider Cent OS (or RHEL, 
if we had the budget) for production - I avoid Ubuntu like the plague. 


Cheers, 
Gavin 



Re: [GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Gavin Flower

On 14/01/13 07:27, Shaun Thomas wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat curious: 
what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid PostgreSQL 
installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between RHEL, CentOS, and 
Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else thought.

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I would tend use Fedora for development, but would consider CentOS (or 
RHEL, if we had the budget) for production - I avoid Ubuntu like the plague.



Cheers,
Gavin


[GENERAL] Linux Distribution Preferences?

2013-01-13 Thread Shaun Thomas
Hey guys,

I'm not sure the last time I saw this discussion, but I was somewhat curious: 
what would be your ideal Linux distribution for a nice solid PostgreSQL 
installation? We've kinda bounced back and forth between RHEL, CentOS, and 
Ubuntu LTS, so I was wondering what everyone else thought.

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312-676-8870
stho...@optionshouse.com



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-27 Thread Leonardo M . Ramé
On 2012-09-27 11:21:04 -0300, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
> On 2012-09-27 11:02:48 -0300, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
> > On 2012-09-27 06:53:57 -0700, Adrian Klaver wrote:
> > > On 09/27/2012 04:46 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
> > > >On 2012-09-27 11:51:46 +0800, a...@hsk.hk wrote:
> > > >>Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >>Could you provide the steps and commands you used to compile 9.1?
> > > >>
> > > >>I want to reproduce your case in my machine
> > > >>
> > > >>Regards
> > > >>Arthur
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >Yes, I downloaded postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz from the PostgreSql web site,
> > > >then did this:
> > > >
> > > >tar xvfz postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz
> > > >cd postgresql-9.1.5
> > > >./configure
> > > >make
> > > >make install
> > > 
> > > By any chance did you in the past install a Postgres RPM that may
> > > introduced 32 bit libraries that the source is linking against?
> > > 
> > 
> > Is it possible to force linking against only to libraries residing in my
> > /usr/lib64 ?.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Leonardo M. Ramé
> > Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
> > Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
> > X5000EPT -- Córdoba
> > Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
> > Cel.: +54 9 351 6629292
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> > To make changes to your subscription:
> > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
> 
> I'd executed this command to remove all 32 bit packages from the system
> (remember this is an OpenSuse system):
> 
> rpm -qa --qf '%{name}.%{arch}\n' | grep 'i[36]86$' | xargs rpm -e
> 
> But it returned "rpm: no packages given for erase". So, there shouldn't
> be 32bit libraries in the system.
> 
> 

I've found the culpit:

:#ldd /lib/libpthread-2.4.so
linux-vdso32.so.1 =>  (0x0010)
libc.so.6 => /lib/power6x/libc.so.6 (0x07e8c000)
/lib/ld.so.1 (0xf7fe1000)

Now I must find out how to install libpthread for 64 bits.

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Re: [GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-27 Thread Leonardo M . Ramé
On 2012-09-27 11:02:48 -0300, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
> On 2012-09-27 06:53:57 -0700, Adrian Klaver wrote:
> > On 09/27/2012 04:46 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
> > >On 2012-09-27 11:51:46 +0800, a...@hsk.hk wrote:
> > >>Hi,
> > >>
> > >>Could you provide the steps and commands you used to compile 9.1?
> > >>
> > >>I want to reproduce your case in my machine
> > >>
> > >>Regards
> > >>Arthur
> > >>
> > >
> > >Yes, I downloaded postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz from the PostgreSql web site,
> > >then did this:
> > >
> > >tar xvfz postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz
> > >cd postgresql-9.1.5
> > >./configure
> > >make
> > >make install
> > 
> > By any chance did you in the past install a Postgres RPM that may
> > introduced 32 bit libraries that the source is linking against?
> > 
> 
> Is it possible to force linking against only to libraries residing in my
> /usr/lib64 ?.
> 
> -- 
> Leonardo M. Ramé
> Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
> Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
> X5000EPT -- Córdoba
> Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
> Cel.: +54 9 351 6629292
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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I'd executed this command to remove all 32 bit packages from the system
(remember this is an OpenSuse system):

rpm -qa --qf '%{name}.%{arch}\n' | grep 'i[36]86$' | xargs rpm -e

But it returned "rpm: no packages given for erase". So, there shouldn't
be 32bit libraries in the system.


Regards,
-- 
Leonardo M. Ramé
Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
X5000EPT -- Córdoba
Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-27 Thread Leonardo M . Ramé
On 2012-09-27 06:53:57 -0700, Adrian Klaver wrote:
> On 09/27/2012 04:46 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
> >On 2012-09-27 11:51:46 +0800, a...@hsk.hk wrote:
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>Could you provide the steps and commands you used to compile 9.1?
> >>
> >>I want to reproduce your case in my machine
> >>
> >>Regards
> >>Arthur
> >>
> >
> >Yes, I downloaded postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz from the PostgreSql web site,
> >then did this:
> >
> >tar xvfz postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz
> >cd postgresql-9.1.5
> >./configure
> >make
> >make install
> 
> By any chance did you in the past install a Postgres RPM that may
> introduced 32 bit libraries that the source is linking against?
> 

Is it possible to force linking against only to libraries residing in my
/usr/lib64 ?.

-- 
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Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
X5000EPT -- Córdoba
Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-27 Thread Leonardo M . Ramé
On 2012-09-27 06:53:57 -0700, Adrian Klaver wrote:
> On 09/27/2012 04:46 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
> >On 2012-09-27 11:51:46 +0800, a...@hsk.hk wrote:
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>Could you provide the steps and commands you used to compile 9.1?
> >>
> >>I want to reproduce your case in my machine
> >>
> >>Regards
> >>Arthur
> >>
> >
> >Yes, I downloaded postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz from the PostgreSql web site,
> >then did this:
> >
> >tar xvfz postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz
> >cd postgresql-9.1.5
> >./configure
> >make
> >make install
> 
> By any chance did you in the past install a Postgres RPM that may
> introduced 32 bit libraries that the source is linking against?
> 

Well, this is an inherited server, so everything is possible. Let me
check.

-- 
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Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
X5000EPT -- Córdoba
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Re: [GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-27 Thread Adrian Klaver

On 09/27/2012 04:46 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:

On 2012-09-27 11:51:46 +0800, a...@hsk.hk wrote:

Hi,

Could you provide the steps and commands you used to compile 9.1?

I want to reproduce your case in my machine

Regards
Arthur



Yes, I downloaded postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz from the PostgreSql web site,
then did this:

tar xvfz postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz
cd postgresql-9.1.5
./configure
make
make install


By any chance did you in the past install a Postgres RPM that may 
introduced 32 bit libraries that the source is linking against?




This, apart from copying the server files, created the
/usr/local/pgsql/lib directory, where I have libpq.so and many more
shared libraries.




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Re: [GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-27 Thread Leonardo M . Ramé
On 2012-09-27 21:44:21 +0800, a...@hsk.hk wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have tried to compile it in my local machine, I could not reproduce the 
> issue yet.
> 
> Does anyone else have idea what the reason would be? Would the issue come 
> from the config file? 
> 
> Regards
> Arthur 
>  
> On 27 Sep 2012, at 7:46 PM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:
> 
> > On 2012-09-27 11:51:46 +0800, a...@hsk.hk wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> Could you provide the steps and commands you used to compile 9.1?
> >> 
> >> I want to reproduce your case in my machine
> >> 
> >> Regards
> >> Arthur
> >> 
> > 
> > Yes, I downloaded postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz from the PostgreSql web site,
> > then did this:
> > 
> > tar xvfz postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz
> > cd postgresql-9.1.5
> > ./configure
> > make
> > make install
> > 
> > This, apart from copying the server files, created the
> > /usr/local/pgsql/lib directory, where I have libpq.so and many more
> > shared libraries.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Leonardo M. Ramé
> > Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
> > Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
> > X5000EPT -- Córdoba
> > Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
> > Cel.: +54 9 351 6629292
> > 
> 

Arthur, could you post the results of "ldd
/usr/local/pgsql/lib/libpq.so" ?.

-- 
Leonardo M. Ramé
Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
X5000EPT -- Córdoba
Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
Cel.: +54 9 351 6629292



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-27 Thread a...@hsk.hk
Hi,

I have tried to compile it in my local machine, I could not reproduce the issue 
yet.

Does anyone else have idea what the reason would be? Would the issue come from 
the config file? 

Regards
Arthur 
 
On 27 Sep 2012, at 7:46 PM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:

> On 2012-09-27 11:51:46 +0800, a...@hsk.hk wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Could you provide the steps and commands you used to compile 9.1?
>> 
>> I want to reproduce your case in my machine
>> 
>> Regards
>> Arthur
>> 
> 
> Yes, I downloaded postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz from the PostgreSql web site,
> then did this:
> 
> tar xvfz postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz
> cd postgresql-9.1.5
> ./configure
> make
> make install
> 
> This, apart from copying the server files, created the
> /usr/local/pgsql/lib directory, where I have libpq.so and many more
> shared libraries.
> 
> -- 
> Leonardo M. Ramé
> Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
> Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
> X5000EPT -- Córdoba
> Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
> Cel.: +54 9 351 6629292
> 



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-27 Thread Leonardo M . Ramé
On 2012-09-27 11:51:46 +0800, a...@hsk.hk wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Could you provide the steps and commands you used to compile 9.1?
> 
> I want to reproduce your case in my machine
> 
> Regards
> Arthur
> 

Yes, I downloaded postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz from the PostgreSql web site,
then did this:

tar xvfz postgresql-9.1.5.tar.gz
cd postgresql-9.1.5
./configure
make
make install

This, apart from copying the server files, created the
/usr/local/pgsql/lib directory, where I have libpq.so and many more
shared libraries.

-- 
Leonardo M. Ramé
Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
X5000EPT -- Córdoba
Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
Cel.: +54 9 351 6629292



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-26 Thread a...@hsk.hk
Hi,

Could you provide the steps and commands you used to compile 9.1?

I want to reproduce your case in my machine

Regards
Arthur

On 27 Sep 2012, at 7:46 AM, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote:

> Hi, I compiled PostgreSql 9.1 from sources in a OpenSuse 10.1 PowerPC
> machine. While trying to test one application, I've got errors just
> before connecting to the database, and found my app is loading
> linux-vdso64.so.1 while libpq.so uses linux-vdso32.so.1
> 
> This means the PostgreSql libraries where compiled in 32 bits?. This is
> what ldd gives:
> 
> ldd /usr/local/pgsql/lib/libpq.so
> linux-vdso32.so.1 => (0x0010)
> libpthread.so.0 => /lib/power6x/libpthread.so.0 (0x6ff85000)
> libc.so.6 => /lib/power6x/libc.so.6 (0x6fe11000)
> /lib/ld.so.1 (0x0800)
> 
> How can I force PostgreSql to compile in 64 bits?.
> 
> Regards,
> -- 
> Leonardo M. Ramé
> Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
> Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
> X5000EPT -- Córdoba
> Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
> Cel.: +54 9 351 6629292
> 
> 
> 
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[GENERAL] Linux PowerPC 64bits issue

2012-09-26 Thread Leonardo M . Ramé
Hi, I compiled PostgreSql 9.1 from sources in a OpenSuse 10.1 PowerPC
machine. While trying to test one application, I've got errors just
before connecting to the database, and found my app is loading
linux-vdso64.so.1 while libpq.so uses linux-vdso32.so.1

This means the PostgreSql libraries where compiled in 32 bits?. This is
what ldd gives:

ldd /usr/local/pgsql/lib/libpq.so
linux-vdso32.so.1 => (0x0010)
libpthread.so.0 => /lib/power6x/libpthread.so.0 (0x6ff85000)
libc.so.6 => /lib/power6x/libc.so.6 (0x6fe11000)
/lib/ld.so.1 (0x0800)

How can I force PostgreSql to compile in 64 bits?.

Regards,
-- 
Leonardo M. Ramé
Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
X5000EPT -- Córdoba
Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
Cel.: +54 9 351 6629292



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Re: [GENERAL] Linux, Hungarian charset (Win1250) is supports the hungarian collation?

2011-03-23 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On mån, 2011-03-21 at 11:22 +0100, Durumdara wrote:
> The language is Windows 1250 (ISO-8859-2).
> 
> I remembered that when I tried in 8.1 to create database as same in Windows:
> 
> CharSet: Win1250
> Collation: - (disabled, and it is handled as HUN - iso-8859-2)
> 
> then I failed.
> 
> Because in Linux (Ubuntu as I remembered) the collation with Win1250 is not
> supports, only C ordering.
> Only one possible way was that if change CharSet to UTF, then collation can
> be Windows1250...
> 
> But I want to avoid the UTF hell if possible.
> 
> Because now I don't have Linux here, I cannot test the PG 9.0...
> 
> May Latin2 is the solution, but may Latin2 is also supports only C
> collation.

On Linux you can use locale hu_HU.iso88592.  It should do what you want.



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[GENERAL] Linux, Hungarian charset (Win1250) is supports the hungarian collation?

2011-03-21 Thread Durumdara
Dear Everybody!

We need to choice a DB for our new project.
Two of the databases are possible to choose.

1.) PGSQL 9.x

2.) FireBird 2.x

We needs to serve 75/80 users in a time.
The client platform is Windows, Delphi based applications with [Zeos/PGDAC]
or [IBX/ZEOS].
The server is may Windows, but in other place may Linux!

I want to ask about PG, because formerly I experienced a strange thing with
it, and I need to check that is possible to use it against FB in the
project.

The language is Windows 1250 (ISO-8859-2).

I remembered that when I tried in 8.1 to create database as same in Windows:

CharSet: Win1250
Collation: - (disabled, and it is handled as HUN - iso-8859-2)

then I failed.

Because in Linux (Ubuntu as I remembered) the collation with Win1250 is not
supports, only C ordering.
Only one possible way was that if change CharSet to UTF, then collation can
be Windows1250...

But I want to avoid the UTF hell if possible.

Because now I don't have Linux here, I cannot test the PG 9.0...

May Latin2 is the solution, but may Latin2 is also supports only C
collation.

The hungarian language have special accents. The good order is:

AÁEÉIÍOÓÖŐUÜŰ

Can anybody help me to see this in Linux and PG 9.x?


Thanks for your help:
dd


Re: [GENERAL] linux server configuration

2011-01-06 Thread Carlos Mennens
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Sim Zacks  wrote:
> We are about to build a new database server, our plan is to use Debian.
>
> Is there documentation of recommended server configurations for Linux, such
> as kernel parameters, preferred file system, etc that work best with
> postgresql?
>
> I'm not talking about the pg configuration, which I have seen a lot of
> documentation about, more on getting the OS ready.

My company has two identical PostgreSQL servers running on Debian
(Squeeze) & we didn't tune the kernel and left it as it was installed
by Debian. I partitioned the drives as 'ext4' & and the data is stored
on a iSCSI NAS (RAID 5) configuration. The servers have been rock
solid. Just be super careful that you don't blindly upgrade the server
(using apt-get upgrade) and accidentally swap from 8.4 > 9.0. I ran
into this problem and it was very messy. This is a PG issue however,
not a Debian issue. On a side note I've ran PostgreSQL 8.4 in a
production environment on the following:

- CentOS 5 64-bit
- RHEL 5 64-bit
- Arch Linux 64-bit
- Ubuntu 10.04 Server
- Slackware Linux 13 64-bit
- Gentoo Linux (Uggh) 64-bit

Out of all those distributions, I can honestly say that between Arch
Linux and Debian, no other distribution comes close.

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Re: [GENERAL] linux server configuration

2011-01-06 Thread Vick Khera
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Scott Marlowe  wrote:
> As a followup, I'd like to point out that you can probably get more
> performance wise from hardware upgrades than from tuning your OS.
> Something as simple as an $800 caching RAID controller can make a
>

Totally agree here.  Throwing hardware at the problem is a very cost
effective solution to performance issues! :)

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Re: [GENERAL] linux server configuration

2011-01-06 Thread Scott Marlowe
As a followup, I'd like to point out that you can probably get more
performance wise from hardware upgrades than from tuning your OS.
Something as simple as an $800 caching RAID controller can make a
workstation class machine into a monster performer, going from 250 tps
to 3000 tps with one simple change.  Tuning might get you from 250 to
275.  Hardware upgrades can take you much much further.  Memory
upgrades are cheap (I just ordered 8 Gigs for my laptop for $89).  4G
ECC RAM is pretty cheap for servers too.  Any newly minted database
server with less than 16 gigs of ram is inexcusable today.  32 is
really the minimum I'd throw at a new server now.  Also, very fast 8
or 12 core cpus, both from intel and amd, are cheap too. An 8 core
2.0GHz Magny Cours on newegg is only $275.  Put a pair of those in a
db server with 32 Gigs ram and a decent caching RAID controller and a
handful of decent hard drives and you don't really need to do a lot of
tuning.  Even a 4 drive machine can give a good account of itself with
that hardware.

What I'm trying to say is don't spend tons of time tuning slow
hardware, you'll get at most a few % gain.

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Re: [GENERAL] linux server configuration

2011-01-06 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 4:20 AM, Sim Zacks  wrote:
> We are about to build a new database server, our plan is to use Debian.
>
> Is there documentation of recommended server configurations for Linux, such
> as kernel parameters, preferred file system, etc that work best with
> postgresql?

This really depends on your hardware.  If you're running a battery
backed caching RAID controller it's a good idea to lobotamize the io
scheduler since it just gets in the way at that point:

echo noop > /sys/block/sda/queue/scheduler

On our machines with 128G of ram, we have occasionally seen swap
storms for no apparent reason, and have turned off swap.

/sbin/swapoff -a

On a machine with 16 or more cores, the linux kernel may decide to use
the zone reclaim mode, which is supposed to keep memory pinned in the
bank accessible by a certain cpu / core for things like
virtualization.  This leads to disasterous performance on file servers
and pg servers.  Turn it off in /etc/sysctl.conf:

vm.zone_reclaim_mode = 0

For most uses, linux doesn't need a lot of tuning really.  Turning the
scheduler to noop gained us a bit of performance especially as load
increases it's more noticeable that the OS is no longer trying to do
the RAID controller's job.  If you want to hunt for more tips, search
through Greg Smith's site, or buy his excellent pg 9.0 performance
book.  It'll keep you occupied for days and days with all the cool
stuff you can do to make fast pg machines.

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Re: [GENERAL] linux server configuration

2011-01-06 Thread Peter Geoghegan
I don't think that it makes sense to look at PG tuning and server
tuning as two separate tasks. XFS was recently benchmarked using
bonnie++ by Greg Smith, with interesting results:

http://blog.2ndquadrant.com/en/2010/04/the-return-of-xfs-on-linux.html

That said, my guess is that the majority of large Linux installations
are using ext3 or ext4. It isn't the case that there's a favoured
filesystem for Postgres.

The kernel parameters that you'll want to change are sysV IPC parameters:

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/kernel-resources.html

If you want a guide to choosing hardware for Postgres, I can highly
recommend Greg Smith's new book, "Postgresql 9 High performance".

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[GENERAL] linux server configuration

2011-01-06 Thread Sim Zacks

We are about to build a new database server, our plan is to use Debian.

Is there documentation of recommended server configurations for Linux, 
such as kernel parameters, preferred file system, etc that work best 
with postgresql?


I'm not talking about the pg configuration, which I have seen a lot of 
documentation about, more on getting the OS ready.




Thanks

Sim


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Re: [GENERAL] Linux: PAE or x64

2010-12-15 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 17:34, Scott Marlowe  wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Peter Geoghegan
>  wrote:
>> Actually, there is a 64-bit port for windows now. I don't think I
>> misrepresented Magnus - the post suggested that the then-lack of a
>> 64-bit windows port wasn't a pressing issue, and that various
>> technical considerations *partially* justified there not being one at
>> the time (the word size of binaries, and more importantly PG's
>> architecture). It's an assessment that I agreed with.
>
> Also there was (is?) the issue that the pg / shared memory system used
> on windows is apparently quite inefficient at using large amounts of
> memory, so there was no pressing need there for 64 bitness either.

I think there still is, but I don't think anybody has run any proper
benchmarks on different sizes of shared buffers on Win64. That would
be some useful information to have, if anybody's listening.. (all my
64-bit windows boxes are in VMs on "cloud infrastructure" and those
not very suitable for benchmarking..)

Another case was DW-style loads where you actually want to be able to
use gigabytes of memory in a single backend for sort/hash operations
and such. For that, there was no workarond...

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 Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

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