Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-22 Thread Greg Sabino Mullane

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Hash: SHA1


 I know, since some Mailinglist I am on are migrated to Majordomo2.
 Afaik does Mailman not support the nomail Option.

 BTW, majordomo may not support 'nomail', but it does allow you to add
 additional email addresses to a primary email, which I find to be far
 easier for dealing with multiple accounts.

Just for the record, both Mailman and Majordomo support the nomail
option. More specifically, all the Postgres lists do, and a number of
subscribers are using this feature.

- --
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End Point Corporation
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-21 Thread Jim Nasby

On Sep 13, 2006, at 9:05 AM, Michelle Konzack wrote:

Majordomo2 support a nomail option as well ...


I know, since some Mailinglist I am on are migrated to Majordomo2.
Afaik does Mailman not support the nomail Option.


BTW, majordomo may not support 'nomail', but it does allow you to add  
additional email addresses to a primary email, which I find to be far  
easier for dealing with multiple accounts.

--
Jim Nasby[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EnterpriseDB  http://enterprisedb.com  512.569.9461 (cell)



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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-14 Thread Michelle Konzack
Hello Marc,

Am 2006-09-09 12:50:36, schrieb Marc G. Fournier:

 And I missed this one from Joshua ... but, we aren't running Majordomo 
 from GreatCircle, we are running Majordomo2 (http://www.mj2.org) which is 
 very much being actively support ...

I have seen...

 Majordomo2 support a nomail option as well ...

I know, since some Mailinglist I am on are migrated to Majordomo2.
Afaik does Mailman not support the nomail Option.

Same for ezmlm, sympha, and smartlist.

Greetings
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


-- 
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Michelle Konzack   Apt. 917  ICQ #328449886
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-14 Thread Stefan Kaltenbrunner
Michelle Konzack wrote:
 Hello Marc,
 
 Am 2006-09-09 12:50:36, schrieb Marc G. Fournier:
 
 And I missed this one from Joshua ... but, we aren't running Majordomo 
 from GreatCircle, we are running Majordomo2 (http://www.mj2.org) which is 
 very much being actively support ...
 
 I have seen...
 
 Majordomo2 support a nomail option as well ...
 
 I know, since some Mailinglist I am on are migrated to Majordomo2.
 Afaik does Mailman not support the nomail Option.
 
 Same for ezmlm, sympha, and smartlist.

fwiw: sympa - and that one has a nomail option for ages ...


Stefan

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-09 Thread Michelle Konzack
Am 2006-09-07 06:15:15, schrieb Joshua D. Drake:

 Honestly, it may be time we start looking at mailman.

 From what I can tell Majordomo isn't even supported any longer. 
 Secondly we get some better management (not great but better) interfaces 
 with mailman.
 
 Mailman is a supported, large, active, FOSS community project that is 
 battle tested in the current field much more so then Majordomo. Holding 
 on with a dying breaths to old software is silly.

When do you want to migrate?

I have this question, because mailman can set to nomail if someone
is subscribe (I am subscribed with two E-Mails an get ALL messages
twice) but I need it to write from different locations or preventing
to get messages bounced, because a worm hit my linux4michelle Mailbox
(currently I get over 14.000 Spams and Viruses per day) which has
only 500 MBytes...

Greetings
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


-- 
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-09 Thread Marc G. Fournier

On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Michelle Konzack wrote:


Am 2006-09-07 06:15:15, schrieb Joshua D. Drake:


Honestly, it may be time we start looking at mailman.



From what I can tell Majordomo isn't even supported any longer.
Secondly we get some better management (not great but better) interfaces
with mailman.


And I missed this one from Joshua ... but, we aren't running Majordomo 
from GreatCircle, we are running Majordomo2 (http://www.mj2.org) which is 
very much being actively support ...



Mailman is a supported, large, active, FOSS community project that is
battle tested in the current field much more so then Majordomo. Holding
on with a dying breaths to old software is silly.


When do you want to migrate?

I have this question, because mailman can set to nomail if someone
is subscribe (I am subscribed with two E-Mails an get ALL messages
twice) but I need it to write from different locations or preventing
to get messages bounced, because a worm hit my linux4michelle Mailbox
(currently I get over 14.000 Spams and Viruses per day) which has
only 500 MBytes...


Majordomo2 support a nomail option as well ...


Marc G. Fournier   Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED]  MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-08 Thread Marc G. Fournier

On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:

As much as I dislike majordomo, I'm not seeing a strong argument here 
for replacing it. As far as I can tell, there are no problems with our 
using it: the unsubscribe-in-subject thing was added to pgsql-general 
and seems to be working just fine.


Actually, am going to add it so that you can do it as part of the To 
address too ... just found out what I was missing for that one ... that 
will clean up the linking from the web for subscribe/unsubscribe, I think 
...


BTW, for those that want the multi-line behaviour, there is a mj2 mailing 
list ... post there with the RFC references you have, and see if they will 
fix it ... the guys are pretty responsive if there is an argument for it 
...


the list is at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...


Marc G. Fournier   Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
 Marc G. Fournier wrote:
 On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
 
 In any case I don't see any reason to let the broken software continue 
 to be broken.  Surely there must be an updated version which corrects 
 this bug?  A patch at least?  I mean, I can't be the only one 
 complaining about it.
 
 Based on this thread, and the fact that you are the first to have ever 
 noticed/commented about it ... ya, you are the only one complaining 
 about it :)
 
 Honestly, it may be time we start looking at mailman.

Please don't, unless Majordomo is really broken and unfixed (i.e. there
isn't a newer version with the bug fixed).  What version are we running?
May I assume we are running a rather obsolete version?  Like the version
we are running of CVS, which doesn't support the usage of

LocalKeyword=PostgreSQL=CVSHeader
KeywordExpand=iPostgreSQL

in CVSROOT/config

which replaces the old, unsupported, broken hack of putting

tag=PostgreSQL=CVSHeader

in CVSROOT/options.  I've been wanting to propose an upgrade to that as
well.

-- 
Alvaro Herrerahttp://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Joshua D. Drake

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Alvaro Herrera wrote:

In any case I don't see any reason to let the broken software continue 
to be broken.  Surely there must be an updated version which corrects 
this bug?  A patch at least?  I mean, I can't be the only one 
complaining about it.
Based on this thread, and the fact that you are the first to have ever 
noticed/commented about it ... ya, you are the only one complaining 
about it :)

Honestly, it may be time we start looking at mailman.


Please don't, unless Majordomo is really broken and unfixed (i.e. there
isn't a newer version with the bug fixed).  What version are we running?


From what I can tell Majordomo isn't even supported any longer. 
Secondly we get some better management (not great but better) interfaces 
with mailman.


Mailman is a supported, large, active, FOSS community project that is 
battle tested in the current field much more so then Majordomo. Holding 
on with a dying breaths to old software is silly.


Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake



--

   === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
 Alvaro Herrera wrote:
 Joshua D. Drake wrote:
 Marc G. Fournier wrote:
 On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
 
 In any case I don't see any reason to let the broken software continue 
 to be broken.  Surely there must be an updated version which corrects 
 this bug?  A patch at least?  I mean, I can't be the only one 
 complaining about it.
 Based on this thread, and the fact that you are the first to have ever 
 noticed/commented about it ... ya, you are the only one complaining 
 about it :)
 Honestly, it may be time we start looking at mailman.
 
 Please don't, unless Majordomo is really broken and unfixed (i.e. there
 isn't a newer version with the bug fixed).  What version are we running?
 
 From what I can tell Majordomo isn't even supported any longer. 
 Secondly we get some better management (not great but better) interfaces 
 with mailman.
 
 Mailman is a supported, large, active, FOSS community project that is 
 battle tested in the current field much more so then Majordomo. Holding 
 on with a dying breaths to old software is silly.

Can Mailman do moderation over email?  If it can do that, then I'm all
for it.  If it can't, which was the case last time I checked (more than
a year ago or two, I admit), then I repeat my plea that it's not done.
Moderation over www is a PITA.  My MUA allows me to accept/reject a
message in a single keystroke.  If I had to fetch a webpage any time I
wanted to approve a post I'd abandon the job pretty quickly.

-- 
Alvaro Herrerahttp://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Magnus Hagander
  ever noticed/commented about it ... ya, you are the only one
  complaining about it :)
  Honestly, it may be time we start looking at mailman.
 
  Please don't, unless Majordomo is really broken and unfixed (i.e.
  there isn't a newer version with the bug fixed).  What version
 are we running?
 
  From what I can tell Majordomo isn't even supported any longer.
 Secondly we get some better management (not great but better)
 interfaces with mailman.

Seriously, I think that's the first time anybody said anything good
about the mailman interfaces Just the stuff I have to do for the
pgFoundry lists (of which I have only *two*) is just so much pain. (who
came up with such a brilliant thing as
different-password-for-everything-you-do? It's just god-awful if you
have more than one list..)


If we're changing anyway, I think we should seriously consider Sympa,
IMHO. For one thing, it can store it's Config and userlists and stuf in
a PostgreSQL database, so if you're not happy with the interface, it's
fairly trivial to whack something else up. Or if you need to do batch
changes or something... I'm not advocating a change though - I'll stand
neutral on that - but *if* we're going to change...


//Magnus


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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Joshua D. Drake


Mailman is a supported, large, active, FOSS community project that is 
battle tested in the current field much more so then Majordomo. Holding 
on with a dying breaths to old software is silly.


Can Mailman do moderation over email?  If it can do that, then I'm all
for it.  If it can't, which was the case last time I checked (more than
a year ago or two, I admit), then I repeat my plea that it's not done.
Moderation over www is a PITA.  My MUA allows me to accept/reject a


O.k. this is a little silly. This constant old school, we have to be 
able to administer things from email is counter-productive. Email is 
dead, long live www! ;)


Seriously though, from a list administrator point of view, someone who 
has to manage many, many lists moderation over email is the PITA. It is 
much nicer to just view a nice long list in a web brower, select a 
couple that I want to keep -- and submit. The rest get thrown away.


Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake



--

   === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Joshua D. Drake


Seriously, I think that's the first time anybody said anything good
about the mailman interfaces Just the stuff I have to do for the
pgFoundry lists (of which I have only *two*) is just so much pain. (who
came up with such a brilliant thing as
different-password-for-everything-you-do? It's just god-awful if you
have more than one list..)


You don't have to have a different password for everything you do. Could 
you elaborate as to what you are talking about?





If we're changing anyway, I think we should seriously consider Sympa,


Well no one said we were changing, I just made the suggestion. I have 
never seen or even of heard of Sympa for that matter. Unless it has a 
very large, active, supported community -- I am not interested in the least.


Joshua D. Drake



--

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Magnus Hagander
  Seriously, I think that's the first time anybody said anything
 good
  about the mailman interfaces Just the stuff I have to do for
 the
  pgFoundry lists (of which I have only *two*) is just so much
 pain.
  (who came up with such a brilliant thing as
  different-password-for-everything-you-do? It's just god-awful if
 you
  have more than one list..)
 
 You don't have to have a different password for everything you do.
 Could you elaborate as to what you are talking about?

For example, to manage my pgFoundry lists, I have to log in with one
password to manage pginstaller-devel and a different one to manage
pginstaller-cvs (which has been discontinued, but keeps getting spams
that notify me - at least it used to). Sure, I can set them to the same,
but...

Same goes as a user of mailman lists.


What I want is to log in to lists.postgresql.org, and get an interface
that wil show me everything about the lists i'm subscribed to
(capability to change my flags etc) and everything about the ones I'm
admin for (which I'm not for any on pgsql.org, but in principle - admin
requests, moderation requests etc).

It's possible this can be done in other versions of mailman than the
ones I've been exposed to, in which case the point isn't valid given
those would be the versions we'd talk about.


  If we're changing anyway, I think we should seriously consider
 Sympa,
 
 Well no one said we were changing, I just made the suggestion.

Oh, I know that. I just wanted to get the suggestion into a possible
discussion about it.


 I have never seen or even of heard of Sympa for that matter. Unless
 it has a very large, active, supported community -- I am not
 interested in the least.

It has a pretty large community supporting it in France, IIRC. Certainly
not as big as mailman, though.

//Magnus


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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
 
 Mailman is a supported, large, active, FOSS community project that is 
 battle tested in the current field much more so then Majordomo. Holding 
 on with a dying breaths to old software is silly.
 
 Can Mailman do moderation over email?  If it can do that, then I'm all
 for it.  If it can't, which was the case last time I checked (more than
 a year ago or two, I admit), then I repeat my plea that it's not done.
 Moderation over www is a PITA.  My MUA allows me to accept/reject a
 
 O.k. this is a little silly. This constant old school, we have to be 
 able to administer things from email is counter-productive. Email is 
 dead, long live www! ;)
 
 Seriously though, from a list administrator point of view, someone who 
 has to manage many, many lists moderation over email is the PITA. It is 
 much nicer to just view a nice long list in a web brower, select a 
 couple that I want to keep -- and submit. The rest get thrown away.

For each moderation request I get, I press a single key.  Either A or
R (yes, I wrote a script for this and set up a mutt macro.  Does you
MUA allow you to bind keys to macros?).  And I get to see the message to
check if it's actual spam or not.  These condensed lists of yours are a
mess because you can't readily tell without looking at the content, thus
leading to opening new windows or tabs.  Plus, I get the moderation
requests on the regular inbox, so they get handled right away and
discarded (the single key macro I wrote takes care of deleting the mail
as well).

I don't see how the web stuff can be any simpler.

-- 
Alvaro Herrerahttp://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Joshua D. Drake


Same goes as a user of mailman lists.


What I want is to log in to lists.postgresql.org, and get an interface
that wil show me everything about the lists i'm subscribed to
(capability to change my flags etc) and everything about the ones I'm
admin for (which I'm not for any on pgsql.org, but in principle - admin
requests, moderation requests etc).


O.k. from list to list yes you are correct. Hmmm... I wonder how they 
handle the token... (decides to take a look after the class he is 
teaching today).


Joshua D. Drake


--

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Joshua D. Drake


I don't see how the web stuff can be any simpler.


I view a single page, select the items I wish to keep, hit a single 
button, I am done and I don't have to clutter my inbox.


This discussion is all about how people work. Most people *DO NOT* work 
from email the way Alvaro and and some of the other hackers do.


I do not use email for todo lists, sending commands to servers, 
moderating lists. I use it for email, which is to say I communicate with 
people with it. I receive attachments of contracts I need to sign and 
requests for work.


When I open my email it is bad enough I have some spam to deal with, I 
don't want a bunch of emails that have nothing to do with my actual 
email cluttering my inbox. Administrative commands, for me -- belong in 
an interface that is separate from my business medium.


Joshua D. Drake





--

   === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Dave Page


-Original Message-
From: Joshua D. Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Joshua D. Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]; Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED]; General 
pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Sent: 07/09/06 14:27
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

 O.k. this is a little silly. This constant old school, we have to be 
 able to administer things from email is counter-productive. Email is 
dead, long live www! ;)

As someone who has been building webapps since the (very) early 90's I'm far 
from a www-luddite, but it'll be a cold day in hell when I willingly moderate 
any of the pg lists using mailman's interface (or mj's for that matter) - and 
yes, I do moderate a few of them.

Regards, Dave
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-07 Thread Greg Sabino Mullane

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


As someone who does a lot of moderation using both mailman and
majordomo every single day, I can assure everyone that both
of them suck in their own way. Majordomo is nice in that I can
view a whole bunch of lists at once, and accept/reject en masse,
across many lists. Plus, it has a gazillion options, some of which
are useful and that mailman does not have yet. Majordomo stinks because
it only shows the from on the main moderation page, and not the
subject line, which would *really* speed up the moderating. Mailman
is nice in that it shows the subject, but also gives a whole irritating
box per message, which makes quick moderating a pain. I'd rather have
a single line list.

 Plus, I get the moderation requests on the regular inbox, so they get
 handled right away and discarded (the single key macro I wrote takes
 care of deleting the mail as well).

 I don't see how the web stuff can be any simpler.

You've got to be kidding: that sounds horrible. I don't want an email
for every message that comes in. I want to handle them all at once,
on /my time frame/. In addition, many of the lists I moderate are
admin'ed by more than one person, so sending the message to all
moderators is extremely inefficient.

As much as I dislike majordomo, I'm not seeing a strong argument here
for replacing it. As far as I can tell, there are no problems with our
using it: the unsubscribe-in-subject thing was added to pgsql-general
and seems to be working just fine.

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
End Point Corporation 610-983-9073
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200609071154
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-06 Thread Marc G. Fournier

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Alvaro Herrera wrote:

In any case I don't see any reason to let the broken software continue 
to be broken.  Surely there must be an updated version which corrects 
this bug?  A patch at least?  I mean, I can't be the only one 
complaining about it.


Based on this thread, and the fact that you are the first to have ever 
noticed/commented about it ... ya, you are the only one complaining about 
it :)



Marc G. Fournier   Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED]  MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-09-06 Thread Joshua D. Drake

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Alvaro Herrera wrote:

In any case I don't see any reason to let the broken software continue 
to be broken.  Surely there must be an updated version which corrects 
this bug?  A patch at least?  I mean, I can't be the only one 
complaining about it.


Based on this thread, and the fact that you are the first to have ever 
noticed/commented about it ... ya, you are the only one complaining 
about it :)


Honestly, it may be time we start looking at mailman.

Joshua D. Drake





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Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED]  MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Alvaro Herrera
I noticed that Majordomo drops the second and subsequent lines of a
Subject: line in message before dispatching for some reason.  It has
done this for some time; I noticed it some time ago in pgsql-es-ayuda
but I thought it may be a bug in my MUA.  But I just saw it happened to
a mail from Bruce as well.

Is this fixable?

-- 
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PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Bruce Momjian
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
 I noticed that Majordomo drops the second and subsequent lines of a
 Subject: line in message before dispatching for some reason.  It has
 done this for some time; I noticed it some time ago in pgsql-es-ayuda
 but I thought it may be a bug in my MUA.  But I just saw it happened to
 a mail from Bruce as well.

Can you have multi-line subject lines?  I didn't think that was
possible.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  EnterpriseDBhttp://www.enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Bruce Momjian wrote:
 Alvaro Herrera wrote:
  I noticed that Majordomo drops the second and subsequent lines of a
  Subject: line in message before dispatching for some reason.  It has
  done this for some time; I noticed it some time ago in pgsql-es-ayuda
  but I thought it may be a bug in my MUA.  But I just saw it happened to
  a mail from Bruce as well.
 
 Can you have multi-line subject lines?  I didn't think that was
 possible.

Yes.  This is the header of a mail you sent to -patches:

From: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zdenek Kotala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED], pgsql-patches@postgresql.org
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [PATCHES] Allow commenting of variables in


Note the Subject is truncated w.r.t. the mail you were responding, which
had this:

From: Zdenek Kotala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: pgsql-patches@postgresql.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:44:19 +0200
Subject: Re: [PATCHES] Allow commenting of variables in postgresql.conf to -

See your sent-mail folder, you'll see that the message you actually sent
had something like this:

Subject: Re: [PATCHES] Allow commenting of variables in
postgresql.conf to -


What happened with the second line?  What I concluded has happened, from
observations on the other list, Majordomo removed it.

-- 
Alvaro Herrerahttp://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Guido Neitzer

On 23.08.2006, at 16:31 Uhr, Alvaro Herrera wrote:


Can you have multi-line subject lines?  I didn't think that was
possible.


Yes.  This is the header of a mail you sent to -patches:


Aha? Subject is an unstructured header field and according to RFC  
2822 [1]:


888888
2.2.1. Unstructured Header Field Bodies


   Some field bodies in this standard are defined simply as
   unstructured (which is specified below as any US-ASCII characters,
   except for CR and LF) with no further restrictions.  These are
   referred to as unstructured field bodies.  Semantically,  
unstructured

   field bodies are simply to be treated as a single line of characters
   with no further processing (except for header folding and
   unfolding as described in section 2.2.3).

888888

So they don't contain line feeds or carriage returns and so the can't  
be multi-line. If a mail client sends multi line subjects it does  
something against the RFC and I assume with that, it does something  
wrong.


This is the theory in RFC 2822 as far as I understand it.

cug

[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2822

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Erik Jones
It most likely conforms strictly to a 
href=http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc822#page-21;Rfc 822/a which is 
the standard, and mostly canonical, and allows for CR and LF but not the 
two together (CRLF), if I'm reading it correctly:


text=  any CHAR, including bare; = atoms, specials,
CR  bare LF, but NOT   ;  comments and
including CRLF ;  quoted-strings are
;  NOT recognized.

optional-field =

/  Message-ID:   msg-id
/  Resent-Message-ID :   msg-id
/  In-Reply-To   :  *(phrase / msg-id)
/  References:  *(phrase / msg-id)
/  Keywords  :  #phrase
/  Subject   :  *text
/  Comments  :  *text
/  Encrypted : 1#2word
/  extension-field  ; To be defined
/  user-defined-field   ; May be pre-empted



Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Bruce Momjian wrote:
  

Alvaro Herrera wrote:


I noticed that Majordomo drops the second and subsequent lines of a
Subject: line in message before dispatching for some reason.  It has
done this for some time; I noticed it some time ago in pgsql-es-ayuda
but I thought it may be a bug in my MUA.  But I just saw it happened to
a mail from Bruce as well.
  

Can you have multi-line subject lines?  I didn't think that was
possible.



Yes.  This is the header of a mail you sent to -patches:

From: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zdenek Kotala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED], pgsql-patches@postgresql.org
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [PATCHES] Allow commenting of variables in


Note the Subject is truncated w.r.t. the mail you were responding, which
had this:

From: Zdenek Kotala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: pgsql-patches@postgresql.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:44:19 +0200
Subject: Re: [PATCHES] Allow commenting of variables in postgresql.conf to -

See your sent-mail folder, you'll see that the message you actually sent
had something like this:

Subject: Re: [PATCHES] Allow commenting of variables in
postgresql.conf to -


What happened with the second line?  What I concluded has happened, from
observations on the other list, Majordomo removed it.

  



--
erik jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]
software development
emma(r)


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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Guido Neitzer wrote:

 888888
 2.2.1. Unstructured Header Field Bodies
 
 
Some field bodies in this standard are defined simply as
unstructured (which is specified below as any US-ASCII characters,
except for CR and LF) with no further restrictions.  These are
referred to as unstructured field bodies.  Semantically,  
 unstructured
field bodies are simply to be treated as a single line of characters
with no further processing (except for header folding and
unfolding as described in section 2.2.3).
 
 888888

So see what folding means.  Section 2.2.3 says

2.2.3. Long Header Fields


   Each header field is logically a single line of characters comprising
   the field name, the colon, and the field body.  For convenience
   however, and to deal with the 998/78 character limitations per line,
   the field body portion of a header field can be split into a multiple
   line representation; this is called folding.  The general rule is
   that wherever this standard allows for folding white space (not
   simply WSP characters), a CRLF may be inserted before any WSP.  For
   example, the header field:

   Subject: This is a test

   can be represented as:

   Subject: This
is a test


-- 
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PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Guido Neitzer

On 23.08.2006, at 16:51 Uhr, Alvaro Herrera wrote:


Guido Neitzer wrote:


888888
2.2.1. Unstructured Header Field Bodies


   Some field bodies in this standard are defined simply as
   unstructured (which is specified below as any US-ASCII  
characters,

   except for CR and LF) with no further restrictions.  These are
   referred to as unstructured field bodies.  Semantically,
unstructured
   field bodies are simply to be treated as a single line of  
characters

   with no further processing (except for header folding and
   unfolding as described in section 2.2.3).

888888


So see what folding means.  Section 2.2.3 says

2.2.3. Long Header Fields


   Each header field is logically a single line of characters  
comprising

   the field name, the colon, and the field body.  For convenience
   however, and to deal with the 998/78 character limitations per  
line,
   the field body portion of a header field can be split into a  
multiple

   line representation; this is called folding.  The general rule is
   that wherever this standard allows for folding white space (not
   simply WSP characters), a CRLF may be inserted before any WSP.  For
   example, the header field:


Interesting. Haven't seen that. Thanks for the hint. Not really  
intuitive, but okay.


cug



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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Joshua D. Drake

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Bruce Momjian wrote:

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

I noticed that Majordomo drops the second and subsequent lines of a
Subject: line in message before dispatching for some reason.  It has
done this for some time; I noticed it some time ago in pgsql-es-ayuda
but I thought it may be a bug in my MUA.  But I just saw it happened to
a mail from Bruce as well.

Can you have multi-line subject lines?  I didn't think that was
possible.


Yes.  This is the header of a mail you sent to -patches:


To further this:

RCPT TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
m550 5.7.1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Relaying denied. Proper 
authentication required.

RCPT TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
250 2.1.5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recipient ok
data
354 Enter mail, end with . on a line by itself
Subject: asdf
asdfasdf


hello
.
250 2.0.0 k7NFEHfh005371 Message accepted for delivery
RCPT TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
503 5.0.0 Need MAIL before RCPT
MAIL FROM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
250 2.1.0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender ok
RCPT TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
250 2.1.5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recipient ok
data
354 Enter mail, end with . on a line by itself
Subject: asdfasdfasdf
asdfasdfasdfaasdffasdfasdasdf

this is a test
.
250 2.0.0 k7NFEHfi005371 Message accepted for delivery


Both of these came through with proper multi line subjects.

Joshua D. Drake



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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Bernhard Weisshuhn

Guido Neitzer wrote:

So they don't contain line feeds or carriage returns and so the can't  
be multi-line. If a mail client sends multi line subjects it does  
something against the RFC and I assume with that, it does something  wrong.


This is the theory in RFC 2822 as far as I understand it.


I think he referred to a long subject line being folded as per section 
2.2.3 of rfc2822.


--
bkw

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I noticed that Majordomo drops the second and subsequent lines of a
 Subject: line in message before dispatching for some reason.  It has
 done this for some time; I noticed it some time ago in pgsql-es-ayuda
 but I thought it may be a bug in my MUA.  But I just saw it happened to
 a mail from Bruce as well.

 Is this fixable?

Even though multi-line Subject: is theoretically legal according to the
RFCs, it's certainly an awful idea; how many MUAs do you know that
provide more than one line to display the subject in a normal view?
So I don't really care if Majordomo truncates the subject --- I wouldn't
see the rest of it anyway.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Tom Lane wrote:
 Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  I noticed that Majordomo drops the second and subsequent lines of a
  Subject: line in message before dispatching for some reason.  It has
  done this for some time; I noticed it some time ago in pgsql-es-ayuda
  but I thought it may be a bug in my MUA.  But I just saw it happened to
  a mail from Bruce as well.
 
  Is this fixable?
 
 Even though multi-line Subject: is theoretically legal according to the
 RFCs, it's certainly an awful idea; how many MUAs do you know that
 provide more than one line to display the subject in a normal view?
 So I don't really care if Majordomo truncates the subject --- I wouldn't
 see the rest of it anyway.

Huh, but the MUA auto-unfolds it for view.  Both mutt and Elm do that
fine -- the folding and unfolding.  I would think exmh is pretty
thoroughly broken if it didn't.

We can do an experiment and send you a Cc'ed message through the list
and a copy to you directly.  The direct copy should have the full
subject, and the list one would be truncated.

-- 
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Tom Lane wrote:
 Even though multi-line Subject: is theoretically legal according to the
 RFCs, it's certainly an awful idea; how many MUAs do you know that
 provide more than one line to display the subject in a normal view?
 So I don't really care if Majordomo truncates the subject --- I wouldn't
 see the rest of it anyway.

 Huh, but the MUA auto-unfolds it for view.  Both mutt and Elm do that
 fine -- the folding and unfolding.  I would think exmh is pretty
 thoroughly broken if it didn't.

Well, if I actually choose to read the message, sure I'll see all of it.
The point here is that you've got one line (and only about 50 characters
at that) to get my attention, and so I'm perfectly fine with list
software that, erm, strongly encourages brevity of Subject: headers.
If you're composing a paragraph it ought to be in the message body,
not the subject.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Tom Lane wrote:
 Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Tom Lane wrote:
  Even though multi-line Subject: is theoretically legal according to the
  RFCs, it's certainly an awful idea; how many MUAs do you know that
  provide more than one line to display the subject in a normal view?
  So I don't really care if Majordomo truncates the subject --- I wouldn't
  see the rest of it anyway.
 
  Huh, but the MUA auto-unfolds it for view.  Both mutt and Elm do that
  fine -- the folding and unfolding.  I would think exmh is pretty
  thoroughly broken if it didn't.
 
 Well, if I actually choose to read the message, sure I'll see all of it.
 The point here is that you've got one line (and only about 50 characters
 at that) to get my attention, and so I'm perfectly fine with list
 software that, erm, strongly encourages brevity of Subject: headers.
 If you're composing a paragraph it ought to be in the message body,
 not the subject.

Have a look at how mutt displays the message index:

  69   L Aug 23 Zdenek Kotala   (  37) Re: [PATCHES] Allow commenting of 
variables in postgresql.conf to -
  70   L Aug 23 Bruce Momjian   (  52) -Re: [PATCHES] Allow commenting of 
variables in

Note that the rest of the second subject line could still use the same
space as the line above it.

I mostly don't use 80-line terminals to read mail anymore because
there's so much stuff that's too wide.  Subjects have already less space
available because of those [FOOBAR] stuff that's prepended to it.  (I
noticed a couple of days ago that you strip those.  Maybe I should do
that too.)

In any case I don't see any reason to let the broken software continue
to be broken.  Surely there must be an updated version which corrects
this bug?  A patch at least?  I mean, I can't be the only one
complaining about it.

-- 
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Re: [GENERAL] Majordomo drops multi-line Subject:

2006-08-23 Thread Joshua D. Drake


Even though multi-line Subject: is theoretically legal according to the
RFCs, it's certainly an awful idea; how many MUAs do you know that
provide more than one line to display the subject in a normal view?
So I don't really care if Majordomo truncates the subject --- I wouldn't
see the rest of it anyway.



Well my MUA actually reads the new line and makes it a single line.


Joshua D. Drake




regards, tom lane

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