Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Andreas Kretschmer]

oleg yusim  wrote:

> Greetings!
> 
> I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view of Cyber Security
> assessment. In regards to the here is my question:
> 
> Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands, such as \du, \dp,
> \z, etc?

start psql with -E


Andreas
-- 
Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely
unintentional side effect.  (Linus Torvalds)
"If I was god, I would recompile penguin with --enable-fly."   (unknown)
Kaufbach, Saxony, Germany, Europe.  N 51.05082°, E 13.56889°


-- 
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

Andreas, Andrian,

Thank you very much for both pieces of information. It was very helpful.
Now, let me ask you one more question on the same topic. Is it more
granular way to control logging PosgreSQL provides, or I pretty much
reduced to choosing between mod and all?

The reason I'm asking is because with 'all" volume of daily logging becomes
truly ginormous. And for my purposes, I really do not need all the SELECT
statements to be logged. Only those, which are responsible for explicit
querying of role/privileges/roles (so, \du, \dp, \z, in essence).

Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Andreas Kretschmer <
akretsch...@spamfence.net> wrote:

> oleg yusim  wrote:
>
> > Greetings!
> >
> > I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view of Cyber
> Security
> > assessment. In regards to the here is my question:
> >
> > Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands, such as
> \du, \dp,
> > \z, etc?
>
> start psql with -E
>
>
> Andreas
> --
> Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely
> unintentional side effect.  (Linus Torvalds)
> "If I was god, I would recompile penguin with --enable-fly."   (unknown)
> Kaufbach, Saxony, Germany, Europe.  N 51.05082°, E 13.56889°
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

Thanks John, I realized that and confirmed in my logs. What I'm trying to
determine now, can I only log some SELECT statements, or I should log all
of them or none of them.

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:40 PM, John R Pierce  wrote:

> On 12/10/2015 9:58 AM, oleg yusim wrote:
>
>> I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view of Cyber
>> Security assessment. In regards to the here is my question:
>>
>> Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands, such as \du,
>> \dp, \z, etc?
>>
>
> what the other two gentlemen are trying to say is the metacommands are
> shortcuts for more complex SQL queries of the pg_catalog schema, so to log
> them, you would need to log all queries and filter for accesses to the
> pg_catalog
>
>
>
> --
> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Scott Mead]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:50 PM, oleg yusim  wrote:

> Thanks John, I realized that and confirmed in my logs. What I'm trying to
> determine now, can I only log some SELECT statements, or I should log all
> of them or none of them.
>

You can configure this to multiple levels:

 Global, per-user, per-database

ALTER USER postgres SET log_min_duration_statement=0;
ALTER DATABASE xyz SET log_min_duration_statement=0;

  That being said, you would want to make sure that the user issuing the
largest volume of queries is not set with this, otherwise, you could
potential flood your logs with every single query issued.  This has a
tendency to cause performance problems.  The other item of note is that,
once logged in, the user could change that value with a similar ALTER
statement.


--Scott
PostgreSQL database experts
http://www.openscg.com

>
> Oleg
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:40 PM, John R Pierce 
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/10/2015 9:58 AM, oleg yusim wrote:
>>
>>> I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view of Cyber
>>> Security assessment. In regards to the here is my question:
>>>
>>> Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands, such as
>>> \du, \dp, \z, etc?
>>>
>>
>> what the other two gentlemen are trying to say is the metacommands are
>> shortcuts for more complex SQL queries of the pg_catalog schema, so to log
>> them, you would need to log all queries and filter for accesses to the
>> pg_catalog
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
>> To make changes to your subscription:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>>
>
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Adrian Klaver]

On 12/10/2015 11:49 AM, oleg yusim wrote:

Andreas, Andrian,

Thank you very much for both pieces of information. It was very helpful.
Now, let me ask you one more question on the same topic. Is it more
granular way to control logging PosgreSQL provides, or I pretty much
reduced to choosing between mod and all?


Yes, overall your choices are none, ddl, mod, and all.



The reason I'm asking is because with 'all" volume of daily logging
becomes truly ginormous. And for my purposes, I really do not need all
the SELECT statements to be logged. Only those, which are responsible
for explicit querying of role/privileges/roles (so, \du, \dp, \z, in
essence).


Take a look here:

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/logfile-maintenance.html

at bottom are links to pgBadger and Nagios plugin check_postgres. I have 
used neither, so cannot comment on their useability. Still something 
like them could be used to harvest log entries into a more condensed 
file and then allow you to get rid of the old Postgres log files sooner.




Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Andreas Kretschmer
> wrote:

oleg yusim > wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view of Cyber 
Security
> assessment. In regards to the here is my question:
>
> Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands, such as \du, 
\dp,
> \z, etc?

start psql with -E


Andreas
--
Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely
unintentional side effect.  (Linus Torvalds)
"If I was god, I would recompile penguin with --enable-fly."   (unknown)
Kaufbach, Saxony, Germany, Europe.  N 51.05082°, E 13.56889°


--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org
)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general





--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.kla...@aklaver.com


--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Jerry Sievers]

Scott Mead  writes:

> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:50 PM, oleg yusim  wrote:
>
> Thanks John, I realized that and confirmed in my logs. What I'm trying to 
> determine now, can I only log some SELECT statements, or I should log all of 
> them or none
> of them.
>
> You can configure this to multiple levels:
>
>  Global, per-user, per-database
>
> ALTER USER postgres SET log_min_duration_statement=0;
> ALTER DATABASE xyz SET log_min_duration_statement=0;
>
>   That being said, you would want to make sure that the user
> issuing the largest volume of queries is not set with this, otherwise,
> you could potential flood your logs with every single query
> issued.  This has a tendency to cause performance
> problems.  

> The other item of note is that, once logged in, the
> user could change that value with a similar ALTER statement.

No, not really.  Unprivileged users can't frob those settings.


> select name, context from pg_settings where name ~ '^log.*statement$' order 
> by 1;
name|  context  
+---
 log_min_duration_statement | superuser
 log_min_error_statement| superuser
 log_statement  | superuser
(3 rows)

> select version();
   version  
  
--
 PostgreSQL 9.3.4 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Debian 4.7.2-5) 
4.7.2, 64-bit
(1 row)

> 


> create role foo;
CREATE ROLE
> set role foo;
SET
> set log_statement to 'none';
ERROR:  permission denied to set parameter "log_statement"
> set log_min_duration_statement to -1;
ERROR:  permission denied to set parameter "log_min_duration_statement"
> 

>
> --Scott
> PostgreSQL database experts
> http://www.openscg.com
>
> Oleg
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:40 PM, John R Pierce  
> wrote:
>
> On 12/10/2015 9:58 AM, oleg yusim wrote:
>
> I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view of 
> Cyber Security assessment. In regards to the here is my question:
>
> Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands, such 
> as \du, \dp, \z, etc?
>
> what the other two gentlemen are trying to say is the metacommands 
> are shortcuts for more complex SQL queries of the pg_catalog schema, so to 
> log them, you
> would need to log all queries and filter for accesses to the 
> pg_catalog
>
> --
> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>

-- 
Jerry Sievers
Postgres DBA/Development Consulting
e: postgres.consult...@comcast.net
p: 312.241.7800


-- 
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[John R Pierce]

On 12/10/2015 9:58 AM, oleg yusim wrote:
I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view of Cyber 
Security assessment. In regards to the here is my question:


Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands, such as 
\du, \dp, \z, etc?


what the other two gentlemen are trying to say is the metacommands are 
shortcuts for more complex SQL queries of the pg_catalog schema, so to 
log them, you would need to log all queries and filter for accesses to 
the pg_catalog




--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz



--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Pavel Stehule]

2015-12-10 20:49 GMT+01:00 oleg yusim :

> Andreas, Andrian,
>
> Thank you very much for both pieces of information. It was very helpful.
> Now, let me ask you one more question on the same topic. Is it more
> granular way to control logging PosgreSQL provides, or I pretty much
> reduced to choosing between mod and all?
>
> The reason I'm asking is because with 'all" volume of daily logging
> becomes truly ginormous. And for my purposes, I really do not need all the
> SELECT statements to be logged. Only those, which are responsible for
> explicit querying of role/privileges/roles (so, \du, \dp, \z, in essence).
>

There is nothing similar.

But if you can recompile psql - you can hack psql - it should be small
simple patch (less than 100 lines).

Regards

Pavel


>
> Thanks,
>
> Oleg
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Andreas Kretschmer <
> akretsch...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> oleg yusim  wrote:
>>
>> > Greetings!
>> >
>> > I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view of Cyber
>> Security
>> > assessment. In regards to the here is my question:
>> >
>> > Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands, such as
>> \du, \dp,
>> > \z, etc?
>>
>> start psql with -E
>>
>>
>> Andreas
>> --
>> Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely
>> unintentional side effect.  (Linus Torvalds)
>> "If I was god, I would recompile penguin with --enable-fly."   (unknown)
>> Kaufbach, Saxony, Germany, Europe.  N 51.05082°, E 13.56889°
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
>> To make changes to your subscription:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>>
>
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Adrian Klaver]

On 12/10/2015 09:58 AM, oleg yusim wrote:

Greetings!

I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view of Cyber
Security assessment. In regards to the here is my question:

Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands, such as
\du, \dp, \z, etc?


aklaver@killi:~> psql -d test -E
psql (9.4.4)
Type "help" for help.

aklaver@test=> \du
* QUERY **
SELECT r.rolname, r.rolsuper, r.rolinherit,
  r.rolcreaterole, r.rolcreatedb, r.rolcanlogin,
  r.rolconnlimit, r.rolvaliduntil,
  ARRAY(SELECT b.rolname
FROM pg_catalog.pg_auth_members m
JOIN pg_catalog.pg_roles b ON (m.roleid = b.oid)
WHERE m.member = r.oid) as memberof
, r.rolreplication
FROM pg_catalog.pg_roles r
ORDER BY 1;
**


postgresql.conf

log_statement = 'all'


aklaver-2015-12-10 10:12:45.177 PST-0LOG:  statement: SELECT r.rolname, 
r.rolsuper, r.rolinherit,

  r.rolcreaterole, r.rolcreatedb, r.rolcanlogin,
  r.rolconnlimit, r.rolvaliduntil,
  ARRAY(SELECT b.rolname
FROM pg_catalog.pg_auth_members m
JOIN pg_catalog.pg_roles b ON (m.roleid = b.oid)
WHERE m.member = r.oid) as memberof
, r.rolreplication
FROM pg_catalog.pg_roles r
ORDER BY 1;



Thanks,

Oleg



--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.kla...@aklaver.com


--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

Hmm... let me see if I got it right. I can set log_statement to mod
overall, and then modify it as ALTER USER postgres SET log_statement=all;
for postgres only? Also... how do we control who can run meta commands?

Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Jerry Sievers 
wrote:

> Scott Mead  writes:
>
> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:50 PM, oleg yusim  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks John, I realized that and confirmed in my logs. What I'm
> trying to determine now, can I only log some SELECT statements, or I should
> log all of them or none
> > of them.
> >
> > You can configure this to multiple levels:
> >
> >  Global, per-user, per-database
> >
> > ALTER USER postgres SET log_min_duration_statement=0;
> > ALTER DATABASE xyz SET log_min_duration_statement=0;
> >
> >   That being said, you would want to make sure that the user
> > issuing the largest volume of queries is not set with this, otherwise,
> > you could potential flood your logs with every single query
> > issued.  This has a tendency to cause performance
> > problems.
>
> > The other item of note is that, once logged in, the
> > user could change that value with a similar ALTER statement.
>
> No, not really.  Unprivileged users can't frob those settings.
>
>
> > select name, context from pg_settings where name ~ '^log.*statement$'
> order by 1;
> name|  context
> +---
>  log_min_duration_statement | superuser
>  log_min_error_statement| superuser
>  log_statement  | superuser
> (3 rows)
>
> > select version();
>version
>
> --
>  PostgreSQL 9.3.4 on x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, compiled by gcc (Debian
> 4.7.2-5) 4.7.2, 64-bit
> (1 row)
>
> >
>
>
> > create role foo;
> CREATE ROLE
> > set role foo;
> SET
> > set log_statement to 'none';
> ERROR:  permission denied to set parameter "log_statement"
> > set log_min_duration_statement to -1;
> ERROR:  permission denied to set parameter "log_min_duration_statement"
> >
>
> >
> > --Scott
> > PostgreSQL database experts
> > http://www.openscg.com
> >
> > Oleg
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:40 PM, John R Pierce 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 12/10/2015 9:58 AM, oleg yusim wrote:
> >
> > I'm new to PostgreSQL, working on it from the point of view
> of Cyber Security assessment. In regards to the here is my question:
> >
> > Is it a way to enable logging for psql prompt meta-commands,
> such as \du, \dp, \z, etc?
> >
> > what the other two gentlemen are trying to say is the
> metacommands are shortcuts for more complex SQL queries of the pg_catalog
> schema, so to log them, you
> > would need to log all queries and filter for accesses to the
> pg_catalog
> >
> > --
> > john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
> >
> > --
> > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (
> pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> > To make changes to your subscription:
> > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Sievers
> Postgres DBA/Development Consulting
> e: postgres.consult...@comcast.net
> p: 312.241.7800
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[David G. Johnston]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:46 PM, oleg yusim  wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Can you, please, give me example?
>
>
​Not readily...maybe others can.  Putting forth specific examples of what
you want to accomplish may help.

David J.​

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[John R Pierce]

On 12/10/2015 12:56 PM, oleg yusim wrote:
2) Way to ensure that only superuser can run meta commands, such as 
\du, \dp, \z


Those metacommands only exist in the psql command line tool, so to only 
restrict access to them, you'd need to modify that tool. however, that 
wouldn't stop users from directly querying pg_catalog.


Regular users HAVE to be able to read the pg_catalog metadata, as they 
are used by many wrapper libraries such as ORM's to get table 
definitions and such.   The SQL standard information_schema is 
implemented as views of pg_catalog.





--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz



--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[David G. Johnston]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:20 PM, oleg yusim  wrote:

> Also... how do we control who can run meta commands?
>

​You cannot do so directly but you can control permissions to the
underlying schema that the meta-command queries touch so that attempting to
run the meta-command fails.

This is not as simple as it may seem; visibility of the schema is
considerably more permissive than visibility of data.

David J.​

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[David G. Johnston]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:56 PM, oleg yusim  wrote:

> So what I want to accomplish is logging queries for roles/privileges with
> minimal increasing volume of logs along the way. The idea I got from
> responses in this thread so far is:
>
> 1) Set log_statement on postgresql.conf to 'mod'
> 2) Raise log_statement to 'all' but only for postgres superuser
>
> What seems to be open questions to me with this model:
>
> 1) Way to check what log_statement set to on per user basis (what table
> should I query?)
> 2) Way to ensure that only superuser can run meta commands, such as \du,
> \dp, \z
>
>
​Can you maybe bottom (or inline) post like the rest of us, please?

1)
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/interactive/catalog-pg-db-role-setting.html

2) Again, not easy if it is indeed possible without source-code hacking​.
 psql itself will not limit the user's ability to execute the command.

David J.

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

Adrian,

What I hope to achieve is to meet this requirement from Database SRG:

*Review DBMS documentation to verify that audit records can be produced
when privileges/permissions/role memberships are retrieved.*

To do that I would need to enable logging of such commands as \du, \dp, \z.
At the same time, I do not want to get 20 GB of logs on the daily basis, by
setting log_statement = 'all'. So, I'm trying to find a way in between.

Thanks,

Oleg



On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Adrian Klaver 
wrote:

> On 12/10/2015 12:56 PM, oleg yusim wrote:
>
>> So what I want to accomplish is logging queries for roles/privileges
>> with minimal increasing volume of logs along the way. The idea I got
>> from responses in this thread so far is:
>>
>> 1) Set log_statement on postgresql.conf to 'mod'
>> 2) Raise log_statement to 'all' but only for postgres superuser
>>
>> What seems to be open questions to me with this model:
>>
>> 1) Way to check what log_statement set to on per user basis (what table
>> should I query?)
>> 2) Way to ensure that only superuser can run meta commands, such as \du,
>> \dp, \z
>>
>
> Maybe if you tell us what you hope to achieve, monitoring or access denial
> and to what purpose, it might be possible to come up with a more complete
> answer.
>
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Oleg
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:50 PM, David G. Johnston
>> > wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:46 PM, oleg yusim > >wrote:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Can you, please, give me example?
>>
>>
>> ​Not readily...maybe others can.  Putting forth specific examples of
>> what you want to accomplish may help.
>>
>> David J.​
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Adrian Klaver
> adrian.kla...@aklaver.com
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

Adrian,

You seemed to be familiar with the STIG world, so how about V-ID from
Database SRG? I'm looking into STIG ID: SRG-APP-91-DB-66 right now.
Now, I do not really think it is a tall order, since the requirement speaks
about explicit calls for privilege/permission/role membership information.
Internal checks, which are going on all the time do not count.

Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Adrian Klaver 
wrote:

> On 12/10/2015 01:36 PM, oleg yusim wrote:
>
>> Adrian,
>>
>> What I hope to achieve is to meet this requirement from Database SRG:
>>
>
> So some aspect of this:
>
> https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/
>
> Can you be more specific?
>
>
>> /Review DBMS documentation to verify that audit records can be produced
>> when privileges/permissions/role memberships are retrieved./
>>
>
> That is a tall order, that is an almost constant process.
>
> /
>> /
>> To do that I would need to enable logging of such commands as \du, \dp,
>> \z. At the same time, I do not want to get 20 GB of logs on the daily
>> basis, by setting log_statement = 'all'. So, I'm trying to find a way in
>> between.
>>
>
> Any way you look at this is going to require pulling in and analyzing a
> great deal of information. That is why I asked for the specific
> requirement, to help determine exactly what is being required?
>
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Oleg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Adrian Klaver
>> > wrote:
>>
>> On 12/10/2015 12:56 PM, oleg yusim wrote:
>>
>> So what I want to accomplish is logging queries for
>> roles/privileges
>> with minimal increasing volume of logs along the way. The idea I
>> got
>> from responses in this thread so far is:
>>
>> 1) Set log_statement on postgresql.conf to 'mod'
>> 2) Raise log_statement to 'all' but only for postgres superuser
>>
>> What seems to be open questions to me with this model:
>>
>> 1) Way to check what log_statement set to on per user basis
>> (what table
>> should I query?)
>> 2) Way to ensure that only superuser can run meta commands, such
>> as \du,
>> \dp, \z
>>
>>
>> Maybe if you tell us what you hope to achieve, monitoring or access
>> denial and to what purpose, it might be possible to come up with a
>> more complete answer.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Oleg
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:50 PM, David G. Johnston
>> 
>> > >> wrote:
>>
>>  On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:46 PM, oleg yusim
>> 
>>  > >>wrote:
>>
>>  Hi David,
>>
>>  Can you, please, give me example?
>>
>>
>>  ​Not readily...maybe others can.  Putting forth specific
>> examples of
>>  what you want to accomplish may help.
>>
>>  David J.​
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adrian Klaver
>> adrian.kla...@aklaver.com 
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Adrian Klaver
> adrian.kla...@aklaver.com
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

So what I want to accomplish is logging queries for roles/privileges with
minimal increasing volume of logs along the way. The idea I got from
responses in this thread so far is:

1) Set log_statement on postgresql.conf to 'mod'
2) Raise log_statement to 'all' but only for postgres superuser

What seems to be open questions to me with this model:

1) Way to check what log_statement set to on per user basis (what table
should I query?)
2) Way to ensure that only superuser can run meta commands, such as \du,
\dp, \z

Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:50 PM, David G. Johnston <
david.g.johns...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:46 PM, oleg yusim  wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Can you, please, give me example?
>>
>>
> ​Not readily...maybe others can.  Putting forth specific examples of what
> you want to accomplish may help.
>
> David J.​
>
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Adrian Klaver]

On 12/10/2015 12:56 PM, oleg yusim wrote:

So what I want to accomplish is logging queries for roles/privileges
with minimal increasing volume of logs along the way. The idea I got
from responses in this thread so far is:

1) Set log_statement on postgresql.conf to 'mod'
2) Raise log_statement to 'all' but only for postgres superuser

What seems to be open questions to me with this model:

1) Way to check what log_statement set to on per user basis (what table
should I query?)
2) Way to ensure that only superuser can run meta commands, such as \du,
\dp, \z


Maybe if you tell us what you hope to achieve, monitoring or access 
denial and to what purpose, it might be possible to come up with a more 
complete answer.




Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:50 PM, David G. Johnston
> wrote:

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:46 PM, oleg yusim >wrote:

Hi David,

Can you, please, give me example?


​Not readily...maybe others can.  Putting forth specific examples of
what you want to accomplish may help.

David J.​





--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.kla...@aklaver.com


--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

Hi David,

Can you, please, give me example?

Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:25 PM, David G. Johnston <
david.g.johns...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:20 PM, oleg yusim  wrote:
>
>> Also... how do we control who can run meta commands?
>>
>
> ​You cannot do so directly but you can control permissions to the
> underlying schema that the meta-command queries touch so that attempting to
> run the meta-command fails.
>
> This is not as simple as it may seem; visibility of the schema is
> considerably more permissive than visibility of data.
>
> David J.​
>
>
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Adrian Klaver]

On 12/10/2015 01:36 PM, oleg yusim wrote:

Adrian,

What I hope to achieve is to meet this requirement from Database SRG:


So some aspect of this:

https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/

Can you be more specific?



/Review DBMS documentation to verify that audit records can be produced
when privileges/permissions/role memberships are retrieved./


That is a tall order, that is an almost constant process.


/
/
To do that I would need to enable logging of such commands as \du, \dp,
\z. At the same time, I do not want to get 20 GB of logs on the daily
basis, by setting log_statement = 'all'. So, I'm trying to find a way in
between.


Any way you look at this is going to require pulling in and analyzing a 
great deal of information. That is why I asked for the specific 
requirement, to help determine exactly what is being required?




Thanks,

Oleg



On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Adrian Klaver
> wrote:

On 12/10/2015 12:56 PM, oleg yusim wrote:

So what I want to accomplish is logging queries for roles/privileges
with minimal increasing volume of logs along the way. The idea I got
from responses in this thread so far is:

1) Set log_statement on postgresql.conf to 'mod'
2) Raise log_statement to 'all' but only for postgres superuser

What seems to be open questions to me with this model:

1) Way to check what log_statement set to on per user basis
(what table
should I query?)
2) Way to ensure that only superuser can run meta commands, such
as \du,
\dp, \z


Maybe if you tell us what you hope to achieve, monitoring or access
denial and to what purpose, it might be possible to come up with a
more complete answer.


Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:50 PM, David G. Johnston

>> wrote:

 On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:46 PM, oleg yusim

 >>wrote:

 Hi David,

 Can you, please, give me example?


 ​Not readily...maybe others can.  Putting forth specific
examples of
 what you want to accomplish may help.

 David J.​




--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.kla...@aklaver.com 





--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.kla...@aklaver.com


--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[John R Pierce]

On 12/10/2015 2:03 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote:


So some aspect of this:

https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/


thats a rather insane bunch of requirements.   Reads like a wish list by 
academic security researchers.


for instance
https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/2015-06-23/finding/V-58123

??!?   The database server has no clue about the difference between an 
"application that it supports" and a user directly querying.  The PSQL 
shell, or dbadmin, is an 'application that it supports'.


at this point, speaking purely as a interested outsider (I am in no way 
representing hte PG Development Group), I'd guess PostgreSQL probably 
doesn't meet 2/3rds of those 'findings'.   I truly wonder if any 
standard RDBMS supports all or even most of them?!?




--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz



--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

Adrian,

I used all those settings you suggested already, and I will suggest to use
logrotate or syslog on top of it, so no more than day worth of log would be
kept in the system. Still, I view it as a big drawback. Do you know of any
third party tools (log monitoring/analyze software, you mentioned),
PostgreSQL integrates nicely with?

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Adrian Klaver 
wrote:

> On 12/10/2015 02:13 PM, oleg yusim wrote:
>
>> Adrian,
>>
>> You seemed to be familiar with the STIG world, so how about V-ID from
>>
>
> No, I am just familiar with how search engines work:)
>
> Database SRG? I'm looking into STIG ID: SRG-APP-91-DB-66 right
>> now. Now, I do not really think it is a tall order, since the
>> requirement speaks about explicit calls for privilege/permission/role
>> membership information. Internal checks, which are going on all the time
>> do not count.
>>
>
> http://securityrules.info/about/xivik-hagym-bupih-dityx/SV-42701r3_rule
>
> Hope there is another rule that keeps someone from writing code that
> masquerades as internal checks.
>
> At any rate it seems the immediate solution is going to lie in some sort
> of log monitoring/analyze software that pulls out queries of interest and
> adds them to another file. You can limit the Postgres logs that are kept
> around using the settings here:
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/interactive/runtime-config-logging.html
>
> Some of which are:
>
> log_rotation_age (integer)
>
> When logging_collector is enabled, this parameter determines the
> maximum lifetime of an individual log file. After this many minutes have
> elapsed, a new log file will be created. Set to zero to disable time-based
> creation of new log files. This parameter can only be set in the
> postgresql.conf file or on the server command line.
>
> log_rotation_size (integer)
>
> When logging_collector is enabled, this parameter determines the
> maximum size of an individual log file. After this many kilobytes have been
> emitted into a log file, a new log file will be created. Set to zero to
> disable size-based creation of new log files. This parameter can only be
> set in the postgresql.conf file or on the server command line.
>
> log_truncate_on_rotation (boolean)
>
> When logging_collector is enabled, this parameter will cause
> PostgreSQL to truncate (overwrite), rather than append to, any existing log
> file of the same name. However, truncation will occur only when a new file
> is being opened due to time-based rotation, not during server startup or
> size-based rotation. When off, pre-existing files will be appended to in
> all cases. For example, using this setting in combination with a
> log_filename like postgresql-%H.log would result in generating twenty-four
> hourly log files and then cyclically overwriting them. This parameter can
> only be set in the postgresql.conf file or on the server command line.
>
> Example: To keep 7 days of logs, one log file per day named
> server_log.Mon, server_log.Tue, etc, and automatically overwrite last
> week's log with this week's log, set log_filename to server_log.%a,
> log_truncate_on_rotation to on, and log_rotation_age to 1440.
>
> Example: To keep 24 hours of logs, one log file per hour, but also
> rotate sooner if the log file size exceeds 1GB, set log_filename to
> server_log.%H%M, log_truncate_on_rotation to on, log_rotation_age to 60,
> and log_rotation_size to 100. Including %M in log_filename allows any
> size-driven rotations that might occur to select a file name different from
> the hour's initial file name.
>
>
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Oleg
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Adrian Klaver
>> > wrote:
>>
>> On 12/10/2015 01:36 PM, oleg yusim wrote:
>>
>> Adrian,
>>
>> What I hope to achieve is to meet this requirement from Database
>> SRG:
>>
>>
>> So some aspect of this:
>>
>> https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/
>>
>> Can you be more specific?
>>
>>
>> /Review DBMS documentation to verify that audit records can be
>> produced
>> when privileges/permissions/role memberships are retrieved./
>>
>>
>> That is a tall order, that is an almost constant process.
>>
>> /
>> /
>> To do that I would need to enable logging of such commands as
>> \du, \dp,
>> \z. At the same time, I do not want to get 20 GB of logs on the
>> daily
>> basis, by setting log_statement = 'all'. So, I'm trying to find
>> a way in
>> between.
>>
>>
>> Any way you look at this is going to require pulling in and
>> analyzing a great deal of information. That is why I asked for the
>> specific requirement, to help determine exactly what is being
>> required?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Oleg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 02:52:38PM -0800, John R Pierce wrote:
> thats a rather insane bunch of requirements.   Reads like a wish list by
> academic security researchers.

Well, I don't know.  Might be a wish list by insurance adjusters who
want to minimise liability.  At least in the United States of
Liability, I think the day is rapidly approaching where people will
need insurance against database breaches.  Therefore,

> https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/2015-06-23/finding/V-58123
> 
> ??!?   The database server has no clue about the difference between an
> "application that it supports" and a user directly querying.  The PSQL
> shell, or dbadmin, is an 'application that it supports'.

while I agree that there's no way for the RDBMS to tell when it's an
attacker mimicing an application's normal connection and query
pattern, I think there are some things you could do here that would
catch this.  For instance,

• use strong authentication mechanisms for your clients.  Kerberos
  seems like a good alternative, but TLS (SSL) certificates might
  do.  Log connections and the connection origin.  If you get
  connections for a given user from the wrong place, you know you
  have a problem.

• isolate your users, so that your application (or better, each
  instance of your application) has an associated user.  Your
  humans are not allowed to log in with this username.  Then,
  queries issued by non-application usernames are your candidate
  queries.

Again, this will not defend against, "Attacker got into my system and
subverted the application user."  You need to have other lines of
defence for that.  But depending on your auditor, this might be enough
to satisfy the condition.

Also, of course, there is the application_name (string) parameter.  In
principle, you ought to be able to filter on this.  Again, won't help
you if your application login is somehow compromised.

I agree that all of this depends on logging everything and filtering,
however.

Best regards,

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
a...@crankycanuck.ca


-- 
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Adrian Klaver]

On 12/10/2015 03:02 PM, oleg yusim wrote:

Adrian,

I used all those settings you suggested already, and I will suggest to
use logrotate or syslog on top of it, so no more than day worth of log
would be kept in the system. Still, I view it as a big drawback. Do you
know of any third party tools (log monitoring/analyze software, you
mentioned), PostgreSQL integrates nicely with?


Well just the ones I mentioned previously and found here:

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/interactive/logfile-maintenance.html



Oleg





--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.kla...@aklaver.com


--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Adrian Klaver]

On 12/10/2015 02:13 PM, oleg yusim wrote:

Adrian,

You seemed to be familiar with the STIG world, so how about V-ID from


No, I am just familiar with how search engines work:)


Database SRG? I'm looking into STIG ID: SRG-APP-91-DB-66 right
now. Now, I do not really think it is a tall order, since the
requirement speaks about explicit calls for privilege/permission/role
membership information. Internal checks, which are going on all the time
do not count.


http://securityrules.info/about/xivik-hagym-bupih-dityx/SV-42701r3_rule

Hope there is another rule that keeps someone from writing code that 
masquerades as internal checks.


At any rate it seems the immediate solution is going to lie in some sort 
of log monitoring/analyze software that pulls out queries of interest 
and adds them to another file. You can limit the Postgres logs that are 
kept around using the settings here:


http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/interactive/runtime-config-logging.html

Some of which are:

log_rotation_age (integer)

When logging_collector is enabled, this parameter determines the 
maximum lifetime of an individual log file. After this many minutes have 
elapsed, a new log file will be created. Set to zero to disable 
time-based creation of new log files. This parameter can only be set in 
the postgresql.conf file or on the server command line.


log_rotation_size (integer)

When logging_collector is enabled, this parameter determines the 
maximum size of an individual log file. After this many kilobytes have 
been emitted into a log file, a new log file will be created. Set to 
zero to disable size-based creation of new log files. This parameter can 
only be set in the postgresql.conf file or on the server command line.


log_truncate_on_rotation (boolean)

When logging_collector is enabled, this parameter will cause 
PostgreSQL to truncate (overwrite), rather than append to, any existing 
log file of the same name. However, truncation will occur only when a 
new file is being opened due to time-based rotation, not during server 
startup or size-based rotation. When off, pre-existing files will be 
appended to in all cases. For example, using this setting in combination 
with a log_filename like postgresql-%H.log would result in generating 
twenty-four hourly log files and then cyclically overwriting them. This 
parameter can only be set in the postgresql.conf file or on the server 
command line.


Example: To keep 7 days of logs, one log file per day named 
server_log.Mon, server_log.Tue, etc, and automatically overwrite last 
week's log with this week's log, set log_filename to server_log.%a, 
log_truncate_on_rotation to on, and log_rotation_age to 1440.


Example: To keep 24 hours of logs, one log file per hour, but also 
rotate sooner if the log file size exceeds 1GB, set log_filename to 
server_log.%H%M, log_truncate_on_rotation to on, log_rotation_age to 60, 
and log_rotation_size to 100. Including %M in log_filename allows 
any size-driven rotations that might occur to select a file name 
different from the hour's initial file name.





Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Adrian Klaver
> wrote:

On 12/10/2015 01:36 PM, oleg yusim wrote:

Adrian,

What I hope to achieve is to meet this requirement from Database
SRG:


So some aspect of this:

https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/

Can you be more specific?


/Review DBMS documentation to verify that audit records can be
produced
when privileges/permissions/role memberships are retrieved./


That is a tall order, that is an almost constant process.

/
/
To do that I would need to enable logging of such commands as
\du, \dp,
\z. At the same time, I do not want to get 20 GB of logs on the
daily
basis, by setting log_statement = 'all'. So, I'm trying to find
a way in
between.


Any way you look at this is going to require pulling in and
analyzing a great deal of information. That is why I asked for the
specific requirement, to help determine exactly what is being required?


Thanks,

Oleg



On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Adrian Klaver

>> wrote:

 On 12/10/2015 12:56 PM, oleg yusim wrote:

 So what I want to accomplish is logging queries for
roles/privileges
 with minimal increasing volume of logs along the way.
The idea I got
 from responses in this thread so far is:

 1) Set log_statement on postgresql.conf to 'mod'
 2) Raise log_statement to 'all' but only for postgres
superuser

 

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Tom Lane]

oleg yusim  writes:
> What I hope to achieve is to meet this requirement from Database SRG:
> *Review DBMS documentation to verify that audit records can be produced
> when privileges/permissions/role memberships are retrieved.*

> To do that I would need to enable logging of such commands as \du, \dp, \z.
> At the same time, I do not want to get 20 GB of logs on the daily basis, by
> setting log_statement = 'all'. So, I'm trying to find a way in between.

As multiple people have noted, it's a serious error to imagine that your
requirement is "log \du etc".  Those are just handy macros for queries on
the system catalogs, which could also be done in other ways.  What you
seem to need is server-side logging of queries that access specific system
catalog columns.  There's no out-of-the-box facility for that right now,
short of log_statement = all which you've already rejected.

It'd be possible to write a C-code extension that did something like
that, and some work in that direction has already gone on; the pg_audit
extension that didn't quite get into 9.5 might come close to your
requirements.

regards, tom lane


-- 
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

Thanks Tom, I get what you are saying and that seems to be final at this
stage. I will write pg_audit down, though.

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:

> oleg yusim  writes:
> > What I hope to achieve is to meet this requirement from Database SRG:
> > *Review DBMS documentation to verify that audit records can be produced
> > when privileges/permissions/role memberships are retrieved.*
>
> > To do that I would need to enable logging of such commands as \du, \dp,
> \z.
> > At the same time, I do not want to get 20 GB of logs on the daily basis,
> by
> > setting log_statement = 'all'. So, I'm trying to find a way in between.
>
> As multiple people have noted, it's a serious error to imagine that your
> requirement is "log \du etc".  Those are just handy macros for queries on
> the system catalogs, which could also be done in other ways.  What you
> seem to need is server-side logging of queries that access specific system
> catalog columns.  There's no out-of-the-box facility for that right now,
> short of log_statement = all which you've already rejected.
>
> It'd be possible to write a C-code extension that did something like
> that, and some work in that direction has already gone on; the pg_audit
> extension that didn't quite get into 9.5 might come close to your
> requirements.
>
> regards, tom lane
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[oleg yusim]

John,

I can answer that - Oracle and MS SQL do, or at least there were able to
convince DISA that they do (STIGs for them are present here:
http://iase.disa.mil/stigs/Pages/a-z.aspx). That actually benefits those
products greatly - from the point of view of security they, once hardened,
meet Federal security requirements and such can be used in multiple
products other DBs can't (for that very reason).

Thanks,

Oleg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:52 PM, John R Pierce  wrote:

> On 12/10/2015 2:03 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote:
>
>>
>> So some aspect of this:
>>
>> https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/
>>
>
> thats a rather insane bunch of requirements.   Reads like a wish list by
> academic security researchers.
>
> for instance
>
> https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/2015-06-23/finding/V-58123
>
> ??!?   The database server has no clue about the difference between an
> "application that it supports" and a user directly querying.  The PSQL
> shell, or dbadmin, is an 'application that it supports'.
>
> at this point, speaking purely as a interested outsider (I am in no way
> representing hte PG Development Group), I'd guess PostgreSQL probably
> doesn't meet 2/3rds of those 'findings'.   I truly wonder if any standard
> RDBMS supports all or even most of them?!?
>
>
>
>
> --
> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
>

Re: [GENERAL] Loggingt psql meta-commands

[Adrian Klaver]

On 12/10/2015 02:58 PM, oleg yusim wrote:
> John,
> 
> I can answer that - Oracle and MS SQL do, or at least there were able to 
> convince DISA that they do (STIGs for them are present here: 
> http://iase.disa.mil/stigs/Pages/a-z.aspx). That actually benefits those 
> products greatly - from the point of view of security they, once 
> hardened, meet Federal security requirements and such can be used in 
> multiple products other DBs can't (for that very reason).


Caveats apply. 

>From U_SQL_Server_2012_V1R8_Overview.pdf:

"
1. INTRODUCTION
1.1 Executive Summary
The SQL Server 2012 Overview, along with the SQL Server 2012 Security Technical
Implementation Guide (STIG), provides the technical security policies, 
requirements and
implementation details for applying security concepts to Microsoft SQL Server 
2012. This
document is meant to improve the security of Department of Defense (DoD) 
information systems.
The requirements in the accompanying STIG do not necessarily prevent or 
mitigate all attacks
against a poorly designed application which uses SQL Server. Please refer to 
the Application
Security and Development STIG for application requirements. Consideration must 
be given to the
placement of SQL server inside a forest to ensure evaluation of risk within the 
environment is
considered. Risk includes introduction of risk to SQL Server from other 
applications or
workstations as well as risk from introduction of SQL server itself into an 
established
environment.
Please note additional guidance exists that applies to SQL Server, even though 
it is non-SQL-
specific and therefore not explicitly called out in the SQL Server 2012 STIG. 
This includes the
Windows environment as well as the networking requirements including firewall 
protection, DMZ
requirements, and Windows host requirements.
"

"..Furthermore, DISA implies no warranty that the application of all specified
configurations will make a system 100% secure. ..."


> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Oleg
> 
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:52 PM, John R Pierce  > wrote:
> 
> On 12/10/2015 2:03 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote:
> 
> 
> So some aspect of this:
> 
> https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/
> 
> 
> thats a rather insane bunch of requirements.   Reads like a wish
> list by academic security researchers.
> 
> for instance
> 
> https://www.stigviewer.com/stig/database_security_requirements_guide/2015-06-23/finding/V-58123
> 
> ??!?   The database server has no clue about the difference between
> an "application that it supports" and a user directly querying.  The
> PSQL shell, or dbadmin, is an 'application that it supports'.
> 
> at this point, speaking purely as a interested outsider (I am in no
> way representing hte PG Development Group), I'd guess PostgreSQL
> probably doesn't meet 2/3rds of those 'findings'.   I truly wonder
> if any standard RDBMS supports all or even most of them?!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> )
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
> 
> 


-- 
Adrian Klaver
adrian.kla...@aklaver.com


-- 
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general