Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Aliaksei Syrel wrote
> Bloc does not have examples yet.
> What classes/methods do you need to be commented first to understand the
> system?

I think for me the most important thing would be to have a short description
of the overall design, especially if it included the rationale. One thing I
think that doomed Morphic is that, because there was no evidence as to why
things were done a certain way, one was terrified to change anything lest it
be vitally important and misunderstood.



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Aliaksei Syrel]

>
> I'm looking at the examples of BlElement for upgrading Bloc-DragPanels.
> I'd expect BlElement to have a default eventlistener that allows moving the
> morphs around?


There is a bug and I disabled this behaviour. If you want to enable it
uncomment line in BlPasteUpEventListener>>startSlide: or just add
BlDraggingEventListener that implements dragging without adding to the hand.

In BlElement class>exampleAdvancedClipping there is twice
> addEventListener: (BlPluggableEventListener new
> whenMouseMoveDo: [ :event | event resumeBubbling ]);

It is a bug. If element has children mouse move event is not fired

P.S. thanks for bug reports on tracker :)

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:

> On 09-02-16 09:15, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:
>
>> Bloc does not have examples yet.
>> What classes/methods do you need to be commented first to understand the
>> system?
>>
>
> In BlElement class>exampleAdvancedClipping there is twice
>
> addEventListener: (BlPluggableEventListener new
> whenMouseMoveDo: [ :event | event resumeBubbling ]);
>
> I'm not sure why the second one is needed. If this is needed a lot,
> I'd prefer #propagateEvent: #mouseMove or something like that.
>
> Stephan
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Stephan Eggermont]

On 09-02-16 09:15, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:

Bloc does not have examples yet.
What classes/methods do you need to be commented first to understand the
system?


In BlElement class>exampleAdvancedClipping there is twice

addEventListener: (BlPluggableEventListener new
whenMouseMoveDo: [ :event | event resumeBubbling ]);

I'm not sure why the second one is needed. If this is needed a lot,
I'd prefer #propagateEvent: #mouseMove or something like that.

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Stephan Eggermont]

On 09-02-16 09:15, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:

Bloc does not have examples yet.
What classes/methods do you need to be commented first to understand the
system?


I'm looking at the examples of BlElement for upgrading Bloc-DragPanels. 
I'd expect BlElement to have a default eventlistener that allows moving 
the morphs around?


Stephan

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Alain Plantec via Pharo-dev]

--- Begin Message ---
and please, do not ask too much to Alex.
Alex is doing a pass (great job), and (I guess) he is doing it alone.
I will come back to Pharo and Bloc in two weeks, reimplement examples 
and adapt the first Bloc documentation that we did with Stephane.
Then it will be easier for the community to help.
Cheers
Alain

> On 9 févr. 2016, at 14:26, Alain Plantec  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 9 févr. 2016, at 13:24, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
>> 
>> On 09/02/16 11:53, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:
>>> So I'm asking: what parts of Bloc do you find especially complicated to
>>> understand. so we could concentrate on them? Root class
>>> BlElement(methods) has good doc, so please use it to start your
>>> exploration journey.
>> 
>> A lot of confusing comes from BlMorphXX things still being around all over 
>> the place. I prefer good examples as a starting point. Making 
>> Bloc-DragPanels work again?
> 
> yes, it should be easy to adapt it to the current Bloc implementation.
> I will reimplement examples.
> And you will see that things are nearly the same regarding Bloc user point of 
> view.
> Cheers
> Alain
> 
> 
>> 
>> Stephan
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 


--- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Alain Plantec via Pharo-dev]

--- Begin Message ---

> On 9 févr. 2016, at 13:24, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
> 
> On 09/02/16 11:53, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:
>> So I'm asking: what parts of Bloc do you find especially complicated to
>> understand. so we could concentrate on them? Root class
>> BlElement(methods) has good doc, so please use it to start your
>> exploration journey.
> 
> A lot of confusing comes from BlMorphXX things still being around all over 
> the place. I prefer good examples as a starting point. Making Bloc-DragPanels 
> work again?

yes, it should be easy to adapt it to the current Bloc implementation.
I will reimplement examples.
And you will see that things are nearly the same regarding Bloc user point of 
view.
Cheers
Alain


> 
> Stephan
> 
> 
> 


--- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Alain Plantec via Pharo-dev]

--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
yes, #formerOwner: and #formerPosition: are here for compatibility with Morphic.
and it will be like that for a while :)
The bloc drag&drop mechanism is implemented differently with the help of events.
Cheers
Alain

> On 9 févr. 2016, at 13:25, Aliaksei Syrel  wrote:
> 
> formerOwner: anElementOrNil
> "Set my former or remove property of argument is nil"
> 
> anElementOrNil
> ifNil: [ self removeProperty: #formerOwner ]
> ifNotNil: [ self setProperty: #formerOwner toValue: 
> anElementOrNil ]
> 
> I hate this method :) It is identical to Morph>>#formerOwner: (ctrl+c, ctrl+v)
> Basically it should be removed after reimplementation of drag&drop mechanism. 
> Current one was copied from morphic to support compatibility.
> We will need to find better solution. Drag&drop is not so easy to do right. 
> Help from community is appreciated :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Alex
> 
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
> formerOwner: anElementOrNil
> "Set my former or remove property of argument is nil"
> 
> anElementOrNil
> ifNil: [ self removeProperty: #formerOwner ]
> ifNotNil: [ self setProperty: #formerOwner toValue: 
> anElementOrNil ]
> 
> I'd prefer to see a #setProperty:toValueOrRemove: there,
> as that pattern is used a lot.
> 
> Stephan
> 
> 
> 


--- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Ben Coman]

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Aliaksei Syrel  wrote:
> Bloc does not have examples yet.
> What classes/methods do you need to be commented first to understand the
> system?
>
> On Feb 9, 2016 4:46 AM, "Sean P. DeNigris"  wrote:
>>
>> I realize it's a fast-moving work in progress, but what's the best way to
>> try
>> to understand the system?
>>
>> For example, I saw class comments, some of which seem to be out of date,
>> and
>> I no longer see many of the examples I remember from last year - maybe I
>> have to load them separately?

Maybe... How about starting with some old fashioned hand sketches,
scanned, with maybe some audio attached to the static image describing
the architecture would give people the quickest start.  Just like you
were introducing someone new who was sitting next to you -- but for
those of us aroudn the world who can't make there ;).

Or maybe (??) do an adhoc whiteboard presentation to a few people
locally that you video. It doesn't need to be nicely edited.

These might be quicker than sitting down to write class comments - and
maybe others can assist by extracting class comments from this
material.

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Aliaksei Syrel]

>
> Please add a comment in the method stating it.
> People are not reading your mind.


I know :) I'm arguing that some classes/method could wait. We need to
concentrate on most important ones. And then come to the rest.

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 1:52 PM, stepharo  wrote:

> Please add a comment in the method stating it.
> People are not reading your mind.
>
> Stef
>
> Le 9/2/16 13:25, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :
>
> formerOwner: anElementOrNil
>> "Set my former or remove property of argument is nil"
>>
>> anElementOrNil
>> ifNil: [ self removeProperty: #formerOwner ]
>> ifNotNil: [ self setProperty: #formerOwner toValue:
>> anElementOrNil ]
>
>
> I hate this method :) It is identical to Morph>>#formerOwner: (ctrl+c,
> ctrl+v)
> Basically it should be removed after reimplementation of drag&drop
> mechanism. Current one was copied from morphic to support compatibility.
> We will need to find better solution. Drag&drop is not so easy to do
> right. Help from community is appreciated :)
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Stephan Eggermont < 
> step...@stack.nl> wrote:
>
>> formerOwner: anElementOrNil
>> "Set my former or remove property of argument is nil"
>>
>> anElementOrNil
>> ifNil: [ self removeProperty: #formerOwner ]
>> ifNotNil: [ self setProperty: #formerOwner toValue:
>> anElementOrNil ]
>>
>> I'd prefer to see a #setProperty:toValueOrRemove: there,
>> as that pattern is used a lot.
>>
>> Stephan
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[stepharo]

Please add a comment in the method stating it.
People are not reading your mind.

Stef

Le 9/2/16 13:25, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :


formerOwner: anElementOrNil
"Set my former or remove property of argument is nil"

anElementOrNil
ifNil: [ self removeProperty: #formerOwner ]
ifNotNil: [ self setProperty: #formerOwner toValue: anElementOrNil ]


I hate this method :) It is identical to Morph>>#formerOwner: (ctrl+c, 
ctrl+v)
Basically it should be removed after reimplementation of drag&drop 
mechanism. Current one was copied from morphic to support compatibility.
We will need to find better solution. Drag&drop is not so easy to do 
right. Help from community is appreciated :)


Cheers,
Alex

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Stephan Eggermont > wrote:


formerOwner: anElementOrNil
"Set my former or remove property of argument is nil"

anElementOrNil
ifNil: [ self removeProperty: #formerOwner ]
ifNotNil: [ self setProperty: #formerOwner
toValue: anElementOrNil ]

I'd prefer to see a #setProperty:toValueOrRemove: there,
as that pattern is used a lot.

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[stepharo]

Le 9/2/16 11:53, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :
On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
mailto:esteba...@gmail.com>> wrote:


mmm… that’s a bad question because I would answer “all of them”,
but I understand you want to do a step to make easy for us to
understand so my answer has to be “the important ones”, but since
there is no documentation/class comments/examples I just cannot
know which  them, so is up to you (and people doing bloc) to tell
us which are “the important ones”… by adding class comments and
examples! :D


It depends :) There are a lot of obvious places in Bloc that do not 
necessarily need documentation to understand them. For example 
events. BlLostMouseFocusEvent does not need any "serious" 
documentation in first place. If you want to find out when it is being 
sent it is much faster to do cmd+n then read long class doc. I don't 
want to say that we don't need documentation.. I just want to say that 
with amount of available man-power we can't instantly add 
documentation to everything in bloc.



Sorry but if the class has an example and a comment stating.
If you want to react to LostMouseFocus do it like that

self eventListener: #LostMouseFocus

Then this is just great. So a comment is not only about what the class 
does but how to use it.


Stef



So I'm asking: what parts of Bloc do you find especially complicated 
to understand. so we could concentrate on them? Root class 
BlElement(methods) has good doc, so please use it to start your 
exploration journey.


Cheers,
Alex

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Aliaksei Syrel]

>
> A lot of confusing comes from BlMorphXX things still being around all over
> the place. I prefer good examples as a starting point. Making
> Bloc-DragPanels work again?

Exactly! :) We just physically can't do everything so fast. It will come!
Patience, patience :)
Nevertheless pointing to issues is very helpful, keep doing it

Cheers,
Alex

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 1:24 PM, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:

> On 09/02/16 11:53, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:
>
>> So I'm asking: what parts of Bloc do you find especially complicated to
>> understand. so we could concentrate on them? Root class
>> BlElement(methods) has good doc, so please use it to start your
>> exploration journey.
>>
>
> A lot of confusing comes from BlMorphXX things still being around all over
> the place. I prefer good examples as a starting point. Making
> Bloc-DragPanels work again?
>
> Stephan
>
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Aliaksei Syrel]

>
> formerOwner: anElementOrNil
> "Set my former or remove property of argument is nil"
>
> anElementOrNil
> ifNil: [ self removeProperty: #formerOwner ]
> ifNotNil: [ self setProperty: #formerOwner toValue:
> anElementOrNil ]


I hate this method :) It is identical to Morph>>#formerOwner: (ctrl+c,
ctrl+v)
Basically it should be removed after reimplementation of drag&drop
mechanism. Current one was copied from morphic to support compatibility.
We will need to find better solution. Drag&drop is not so easy to do right.
Help from community is appreciated :)

Cheers,
Alex

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:

> formerOwner: anElementOrNil
> "Set my former or remove property of argument is nil"
>
> anElementOrNil
> ifNil: [ self removeProperty: #formerOwner ]
> ifNotNil: [ self setProperty: #formerOwner toValue:
> anElementOrNil ]
>
> I'd prefer to see a #setProperty:toValueOrRemove: there,
> as that pattern is used a lot.
>
> Stephan
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Stephan Eggermont]

On 09/02/16 11:53, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:

So I'm asking: what parts of Bloc do you find especially complicated to
understand. so we could concentrate on them? Root class
BlElement(methods) has good doc, so please use it to start your
exploration journey.


A lot of confusing comes from BlMorphXX things still being around all 
over the place. I prefer good examples as a starting point. Making 
Bloc-DragPanels work again?


Stephan

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Stephan Eggermont]

formerOwner: anElementOrNil
"Set my former or remove property of argument is nil"

anElementOrNil
ifNil: [ self removeProperty: #formerOwner ]
ifNotNil: [ self setProperty: #formerOwner toValue: 
anElementOrNil ]

I'd prefer to see a #setProperty:toValueOrRemove: there,
as that pattern is used a lot.

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Aliaksei Syrel]

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
wrote:

> mmm… that’s a bad question because I would answer “all of them”, but I
> understand you want to do a step to make easy for us to understand so my
> answer has to be “the important ones”, but since there is no
> documentation/class comments/examples I just cannot know which  them, so is
> up to you (and people doing bloc) to tell us which are “the important
> ones”… by adding class comments and examples! :D


It depends :) There are a lot of obvious places in Bloc that do not
necessarily need documentation to understand them. For example
events. BlLostMouseFocusEvent does not need any "serious" documentation in
first place. If you want to find out when it is being sent it is much
faster to do cmd+n then read long class doc. I don't want to say that we
don't need documentation.. I just want to say that with amount of available
man-power we can't instantly add documentation to everything in bloc.

So I'm asking: what parts of Bloc do you find especially complicated to
understand. so we could concentrate on them? Root class BlElement(methods)
has good doc, so please use it to start your exploration journey.

Cheers,
Alex

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 09 Feb 2016, at 09:15, Aliaksei Syrel  wrote:
> 
> Bloc does not have examples yet.
> What classes/methods do you need to be commented first to understand the 
> system?
> 
mmm… that’s a bad question because I would answer “all of them”, but I 
understand you want to do a step to make easy for us to understand so my answer 
has to be “the important ones”, but since there is no documentation/class 
comments/examples I just cannot know which  them, so is up to you (and people 
doing bloc) to tell us which are “the important ones”… by adding class comments 
and examples! :D

Esteban

> On Feb 9, 2016 4:46 AM, "Sean P. DeNigris"  > wrote:
> I realize it's a fast-moving work in progress, but what's the best way to try
> to understand the system?
> 
> For example, I saw class comments, some of which seem to be out of date, and
> I no longer see many of the examples I remember from last year - maybe I
> have to load them separately?
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://forum.world.st/Bloc-Documentation-tp4876448.html 
> 
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Aliaksei Syrel]

Bloc does not have examples yet.
What classes/methods do you need to be commented first to understand the
system?
On Feb 9, 2016 4:46 AM, "Sean P. DeNigris"  wrote:

> I realize it's a fast-moving work in progress, but what's the best way to
> try
> to understand the system?
>
> For example, I saw class comments, some of which seem to be out of date,
> and
> I no longer see many of the examples I remember from last year - maybe I
> have to load them separately?
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Bloc-Documentation-tp4876448.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>

[Pharo-dev] Bloc Documentation

[Sean P. DeNigris]

I realize it's a fast-moving work in progress, but what's the best way to try
to understand the system?

For example, I saw class comments, some of which seem to be out of date, and
I no longer see many of the examples I remember from last year - maybe I
have to load them separately?



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Bloc-Documentation-tp4876448.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.