date:20151015


Hello,

I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option.
https://www.linode.com/pricing

I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is simply 
an example and one of my options.


I have not used such a service before.

How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case?
Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a problem?

I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to play 
with a web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and not the 
standard LAMP setup that so commonly offered.


Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly 
appreciated.


Thanks.

Jimmie

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

2015-10-15 Thread Mariano Martinez Peck

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Jimmie Houchin 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option.
> https://www.linode.com/pricing
>
> I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is simply an
> example and one of my options.
>
> I have not used such a service before.
>
>
I am using Linode and running Pharo and GemStone there (CentOS 7). So far
no problem and Linode seem very very cool.

> How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case?
> Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a problem?
>

It's not in my case. Linode does invoice for cpu cycles, you simply has CPU
assigned and you do not care if it is 100% 24 hours a day or 10% used.
Other services like amazon etc do care about CPU cycles (the price is based
somehow on that I think), but not in Linode or other VPS-like.

>
> I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to play with
> a web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and not the standard
> LAMP setup that so commonly offered.
>

I am very happy with Linode. It supports many nice things like having
multiple virtual images, clone them, backups, etc.
For example, I have a Linode template VM that is "ready to run my app" and
then I can clone such VM for each site (app instance) we deploy.
We have a daily backup, weekly, monthly and one more free slot.

> Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly
> appreciated.
>
>
I think it depends on the type of app. For my case, I do not want to host
myself anymore. So I would go for cloud based for sure. Then, you have the
VPS like or the amazon-like. Both allow you to grow. I guess you may choose
this depending on your type of app. In any case, you end up having a OS
where you simply install Pharo and that's it.

-- 
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

2015-10-15 Thread Andres Fortier

As an alternative, Openshift has a free plan that includes 3 small gears
(512RAM - 1GB storage IIRC). I've used to host different things (mostly RoR
apps) but I think there should be no problem on hosting a Pharo app with a
DIY cartridge.

Just 2 cts.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <
marianop...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Jimmie Houchin 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option.
>> https://www.linode.com/pricing
>>
>> I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is simply
>> an example and one of my options.
>>
>> I have not used such a service before.
>>
>>
> I am using Linode and running Pharo and GemStone there (CentOS 7). So far
> no problem and Linode seem very very cool.
>
>
>> How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case?
>> Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a problem?
>>
>
> It's not in my case. Linode does invoice for cpu cycles, you simply has
> CPU assigned and you do not care if it is 100% 24 hours a day or 10% used.
> Other services like amazon etc do care about CPU cycles (the price is based
> somehow on that I think), but not in Linode or other VPS-like.
>
>
>>
>> I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to play
>> with a web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and not the
>> standard LAMP setup that so commonly offered.
>>
>
> I am very happy with Linode. It supports many nice things like having
> multiple virtual images, clone them, backups, etc.
> For example, I have a Linode template VM that is "ready to run my app" and
> then I can clone such VM for each site (app instance) we deploy.
> We have a daily backup, weekly, monthly and one more free slot.
>
>
>> Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
> I think it depends on the type of app. For my case, I do not want to host
> myself anymore. So I would go for cloud based for sure. Then, you have the
> VPS like or the amazon-like. Both allow you to grow. I guess you may choose
> this depending on your type of app. In any case, you end up having a OS
> where you simply install Pharo and that's it.
>
>
>
> --
> Mariano
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Updated Pharo By Example

Thanks a lot Dimitris! It was really needed. Now I can point to updated 
documentation in my data week workshops here.


Cheers,

Offray

On 15/10/15 08:47, Tudor Girba wrote:

+1!

Doru

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe > wrote:


Thank you for taking care of this update, this is a very important
community resource.

> On 15 Oct 2015, at 14:42, Dimitris Chloupis
> wrote:
>
> First of all thanks to all the people helping with the
documentation.
>
> Now I think its the time to replace the old PBE with UPBE , we
dont need to change the website just link to the newest pdf here
>
>

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/UpdatedPharoByExample.pdf
>
> Because UPBE at this moment is light years ahead of PBE. I just
added doc for Spotter, Dark Theme, and the new Nautilus icons.
>
> If any of you wants to fix something on UPBE and does not have
the confidence to do it directly , because you dont understand
Pillar or you dont feel confident yet with Pharo you can still
help me tremendously by adding your comment , your corrected text
or your addition documentation as github issue here and I will put
it in the book ASAP.
>
>
https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample/issues
>
> I will be resolving at least one issue per week from now on to
make sure that UPBE is being pushed forward and remains by far the
most up to date documentation of Pharo anywhere in this universe.
But I cannot guarantee for other universes.
>
> So please help , even a tiny bit of help is great because we can
all make Pharo far easier for newcomers with much better
documentation and expand UPBE to every direction.
>
> All hail Pharo !





--
www.tudorgirba.com 

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-users] Updated Pharo By Example

2015-10-15 Thread Dimitris Chloupis

thanks guys

I can compromise for the time being with the user not going to the website
, searching for doc and founding documentation for pharo 1.4 while the
version he/she has is pharo 5 when we already have a book that is fairly up
to date.

Is there anyone responsible for the PBE website ? Can we make the change ?

Also please use this thread to post your blog posts and own tutorials I
could use for UPBE. I am in the process of reading the humaneassesment
documentation but I welcome also others. Any form of tutorial or article is
welcomed.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 6:31 PM Damien Cassou 
wrote:

>
> Hi Dimitris,
>
> Dimitris Chloupis  writes:
>
> > First of all thanks to all the people helping with the documentation.
> >
> > Now I think its the time to replace the old PBE with UPBE, we dont
> > need to change the website just link to the newest pdf here
>
> I agree UPBE is important. I want to finish EnterprisePharo and the Mooc
> first and then focus on UPBE. I want to get printed copies of it in book
> stores as we did we the other books. This will take time, but with your
> help and the help of the community, we will get there.
>
> --
> Damien Cassou
> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
>
> "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
> losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

2015-10-15 Thread Esteban Lorenzano


> On 15 Oct 2015, at 17:17, Jimmie Houchin  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option.
> https://www.linode.com/pricing
> 
> I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is simply an 
> example and one of my options.
> 
> I have not used such a service before.
> 
> How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case?

as far as you install all the 32bits libraries, you are ok :)

> Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a problem?

no, I have similar services. 
I have more problems with the obsession of MongoDB to take over my RAM than 
with Pharo (and I run 4 pharo boxes in 1gb memory) :)

Esteban

> 
> I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to play with a 
> web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and not the standard LAMP 
> setup that so commonly offered.
> 
> Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly 
> appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Jimmie
>

Re: [Pharo-users] [Moose-dev] Re: Data Kitchen: A data visualization project powered by Pharo. Feedback welcomed.



On 15/10/15 08:57, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

Done!
I did my bit!

Give your heart guys! It takes 2 minutes.



+1 (please share your love, only 2 minutes).

BTW, I answered your comment. From yesterday to today the project went 
from almost 300 views to almost 500. Still away from views leaders, but 
nice to know this communities (Moose, Pharo, OKNF) can be so responsive.


Cheers,

Offray

Re: [Pharo-users] Updated Pharo By Example

2015-10-15 Thread Tudor Girba

+1!

Doru

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:

> Thank you for taking care of this update, this is a very important
> community resource.
>
> > On 15 Oct 2015, at 14:42, Dimitris Chloupis 
> wrote:
> >
> > First of all thanks to all the people helping with the documentation.
> >
> > Now I think its the time to replace the old PBE with UPBE , we dont need
> to change the website just link to the newest pdf here
> >
> >
> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/UpdatedPharoByExample.pdf
> >
> > Because UPBE at this moment is light years ahead of PBE. I just added
> doc for Spotter, Dark Theme, and the new Nautilus icons.
> >
> > If any of you wants to fix something on UPBE and does not have the
> confidence to do it directly , because you dont understand Pillar or you
> dont feel confident yet with Pharo you can still help me tremendously by
> adding your comment , your corrected text or your addition documentation as
> github issue here and I will put it in the book ASAP.
> >
> > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample/issues
> >
> > I will be resolving at least one issue per week from now on to make sure
> that UPBE is being pushed forward and remains by far the most up to date
> documentation of Pharo anywhere in this universe. But I cannot guarantee
> for other universes.
> >
> > So please help , even a tiny bit of help is great because we can all
> make Pharo far easier for newcomers with much better documentation and
> expand UPBE to every direction.
> >
> > All hail Pharo !
>
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-users] [Moose-dev] Data Kitchen: A data visualization project powered by Pharo. Feedback welcomed.

2015-10-15 Thread Alexandre Bergel

Done! 
I did my bit!

Give your heart guys! It takes 2 minutes.

Alexandre
-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:07 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In my effort to more create more meaningful computer mediated experiences for 
> me and other and to use Pharo as a medium for that I have proposed the 
> following project:
> 
> ---
> 
> - Name: Data Kitchen: Frictionless data, moldable tools, pocket 
> infrastructures & permanent workshops for community empowerment
> - url: 
> https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/data/entries/data-kitchen-frictionless-data-moldable-tools-pocket-infrastructures-permanent-workshops-for-community-empowerment
> 
> ---
> 
> It combines the ideas of moldable tools, agile visualization in this 
> community with some of other like frictionless data, by Open Knowledge 
> Foundation and what I call "pocket infrastructures". Any feedback is 
> welcomed. You can make it here in this list, but if you can made it on their 
> platform, from a simple "heart" (+1) or drop me a line, it would be greatly 
> appreciated and it will help to make more visible the project.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Offray
> 
> 
> ___
> Moose-dev mailing list
> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS


Thanks for all of the replies and suggestions.

Thanks to the smart man in the room. I will explore DigitalOcean and 
setup up a droplet when ready.


Thanks for the referral.

Jimmie

On 10/15/2015 02:20 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

On 15 Oct 2015, at 20:54, Esteban A. Maringolo  wrote:

2015-10-15 15:52 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :

On 15 Oct 2015, at 20:24, Esteban A. Maringolo  wrote:

I use DigitalOcean, a 2 core-VPS with 1GB ram could host 10 concurrent
images without any issues, other than the constant ~5% CPU use while
idle. I/O was the bottleneck, so no race conditions between the
different images.

I second that, even the smallest instance, 512 MB RAM at $5, is more than 
enough for a couple of Pharo images. Just try it.

https://www.digitalocean.com/?refcode=6a0334a169dc

You are smarter than me ;-)

;-)

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

Okay, I didn't know if you were referring to Grafoscopio or not. I did
not know it would be using Fossil for storage.

I downloaded and will explore next week.

Thanks.

Jimmie

On 10/15/2015 05:37 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:

Hi Jimmie,

My idea is to connect Pharo with the external world, starting from
what I need/know, but also I try to not use every single stuff in
other languages. My main criteria for selecting from other ecosystems
is simplicity. I want to make Pharo compatible with my own history
(which is kind of similar to the ones of many non-pharoers), so that
bridge can be crossed by others.

This is the app I'm refering to:

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio

Is the one I'm making to finally learn Smalltalk with limited time, so
lots of rookie code everywhere, but works (mostly for me now).
Hopefully I will have more time to learn and improve it. I have some
text I have done using it, with open innovation and open/citizen
science as themes (only in Spanish) and recently I made a proposal on
how to use/extend it (I have been publicizing it in another thread but
details are on [1])

[1]
https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/data/entries/data-kitchen-frictionless-data-moldable-tools-pocket-infrastructures-permanent-workshops-for-community-empowerment

Cheers,

Offray

On 15/10/15 17:10, Jimmie Houchin wrote:

Hello Offray,

If we didn't have the big push for GitHub. I would love to see a
Fossil source code interface for Pharo. If we had this we could
potentially replace SmalltalkHub with something more functional
almost instantly. This is a big assumption, but possibly correct. But
since it comes with a web ui it has a start. I just don't know what
would be involved in making it suitable for a community of projects.
I just find SmalltalkHub painful. I haven't actually started using
Fossil yet. Just watched the videos and began reading the book and
drinking the kool-aid. :)

I do love how pro-active he is being in suggesting big things to
established products or ideas.

While I am very pro doing as much stuff in Pharo as possible. ie: not
using every tool out there from other languages, Python, Ruby, etc.

I do think it is a good thing when it comes to things like data
persistence to be ready to use solutions that help people feel
comfortable that they could have an exit strategy should Pharo some
how crash, go crazy, quit working or simply fade away like many
believe Smalltalk already has. It could make some people a little
more comfortable in a Pharo solution.

He talks about LibreOffice and what benefits it could have if it used
SQLite rather than a pile of files for persistency. What if Pharo was
the app and SQLite the persistency for the document? We could do our
own office suite or whatever. We would have a portable, future proof,
application file format that people beyond the Pharo/Smalltalk
community could feel good about.

Which app of yours are you referring to?

Thanks for your input.

Jimmie

On 10/15/2015 03:49 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:

Hi Jimmie,

Nice to see you exploring bridges between Pharo and the external
world (that was my message about how I planned to contribute to
pharo) and thanks for the reference about the "Git: just say no"
video from Hipp (food for my rants with git possessed friends ;-) ).

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghtpJnrdgbo

My app uses fossil for storage and exports documents in plain text
using STON[2] format and with this combination I can have a remote
storage facility which is also pretty portable (just depending on
Pharo and a fossil portable binaries). Because I'm working with
documents, STON files can have long text inside, which is treated by
fossil like binaries and I had not have the time to explore some
Sven's suggestions to make it diff friendly. Also I would like some
yaml import export on Pharo (maybe via STON). Pharo + Yaml/STON +
Fossil could bring us some kind of free schema, human readable,
external and distributed storage system that can talk pretty well
with the rest of the world.

Anyway I just want to point that are more people interested in
simple and external persistence using Hipps ideas and products.
Maybe fossil + STON can work for you also.

[2] https://github.com/svenvc/ston/blob/master/ston-paper.md

Keep us posted,

Offray

On 15/10/15 12:58, Jimmie Houchin wrote:

Hello,

I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would
keep all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and
Pharo is great at persistence in the image.

But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the
database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to
structure my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect
writing my own database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.

Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do
not want to require my wife or

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite


Hi Jimmie,

Nice to see you exploring bridges between Pharo and the external world 
(that was my message about how I planned to contribute to pharo) and 
thanks for the reference about the "Git: just say no" video from Hipp 
(food for my rants with git possessed friends ;-) ).


[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghtpJnrdgbo

My app uses fossil for storage and exports documents in plain text using 
STON[2] format and with this combination I can have a remote storage 
facility which is also pretty portable (just depending on Pharo and a 
fossil portable binaries). Because I'm working with documents, STON 
files can have long text inside, which is treated by fossil like 
binaries and I had not have the time to explore some Sven's suggestions 
to make it diff friendly. Also I would like some yaml import export on 
Pharo (maybe via STON). Pharo + Yaml/STON + Fossil could bring us some 
kind of free schema, human readable, external and distributed storage 
system that can talk pretty well with the rest of the world.


Anyway I just want to point that are more people interested in simple 
and external persistence using Hipps ideas and products. Maybe fossil + 
STON can work for you also.


[2] https://github.com/svenvc/ston/blob/master/ston-paper.md

Keep us posted,

Offray

On 15/10/15 12:58, Jimmie Houchin wrote:

Hello,

I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would 
keep all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo 
is great at persistence in the image.


But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the 
database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to 
structure my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect 
writing my own database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.


Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not 
want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to 
install anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No 
PostgreSQL or MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.


This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.

In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of 
applications come and go.
(and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older 
than probably half the people here.)


Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works 
and Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We 
loved the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and 
just do stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly 
and sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the 
point that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will 
have to move my data.


Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant 
limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.


My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but 
LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly 
looked at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or 
right tool for the job.


So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my 
learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially 
settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is 
embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file 
I create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else 
in Pharo.


SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A 
trusted, reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable 
as is Pharo.


Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he 
believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.


SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk

2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application 
File Format

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc

The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I 
encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including 
his anti-git video.
I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be 
interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of 
using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be 
the only one. But that isn't a biggie for me.

TL;DW (didn't watch)
Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a 
(zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos 
as the wrong way, LibreOffice and git.


I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. 
We gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that 
is nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all 
of the software world.


For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable 
persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who 
don't trust the image for their data.

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

Hi Jimmie,

My idea is to connect Pharo with the external world, starting from what
I need/know, but also I try to not use every single stuff in other
languages. My main criteria for selecting from other ecosystems is
simplicity. I want to make Pharo compatible with my own history (which
is kind of similar to the ones of many non-pharoers), so that bridge can
be crossed by others.

This is the app I'm refering to:

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio

Is the one I'm making to finally learn Smalltalk with limited time, so
lots of rookie code everywhere, but works (mostly for me now). Hopefully
I will have more time to learn and improve it. I have some text I have
done using it, with open innovation and open/citizen science as themes
(only in Spanish) and recently I made a proposal on how to use/extend it
(I have been publicizing it in another thread but details are on [1])

[1]
https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/data/entries/data-kitchen-frictionless-data-moldable-tools-pocket-infrastructures-permanent-workshops-for-community-empowerment

Cheers,

Offray

On 15/10/15 17:10, Jimmie Houchin wrote:

Hello Offray,

If we didn't have the big push for GitHub. I would love to see a
Fossil source code interface for Pharo. If we had this we could
potentially replace SmalltalkHub with something more functional almost
instantly. This is a big assumption, but possibly correct. But since
it comes with a web ui it has a start. I just don't know what would be
involved in making it suitable for a community of projects. I just
find SmalltalkHub painful. I haven't actually started using Fossil
yet. Just watched the videos and began reading the book and drinking
the kool-aid. :)

I do love how pro-active he is being in suggesting big things to
established products or ideas.

While I am very pro doing as much stuff in Pharo as possible. ie: not
using every tool out there from other languages, Python, Ruby, etc.

Which app of yours are you referring to?

Thanks for your input.

Jimmie

On 10/15/2015 03:49 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:

Hi Jimmie,

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghtpJnrdgbo

Anyway I just want to point that are more people interested in simple
and external persistence using Hipps ideas and products. Maybe fossil
+ STON can work for you also.

[2] https://github.com/svenvc/ston/blob/master/ston-paper.md

Keep us posted,

Offray

On 15/10/15 12:58, Jimmie Houchin wrote:

Hello,

I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would
keep all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and
Pharo is great at persistence in the image.

Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do
not want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to
install anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No
PostgreSQL or MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.

This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.

In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite


Hello Offray,

If we didn't have the big push for GitHub. I would love to see a Fossil 
source code interface for Pharo. If we had this we could potentially 
replace SmalltalkHub with something more functional almost instantly. 
This is a big assumption, but possibly correct. But since it comes with 
a web ui it has a start. I just don't know what would be involved in 
making it suitable for a community of projects. I just find SmalltalkHub 
painful. I haven't actually started using Fossil yet. Just watched the 
videos and began reading the book and drinking the kool-aid. :)


I do love how pro-active he is being in suggesting big things to 
established products or ideas.


While I am very pro doing as much stuff in Pharo as possible. ie: not 
using every tool out there from other languages, Python, Ruby, etc.


I do think it is a good thing when it comes to things like data 
persistence to be ready to use solutions that help people feel 
comfortable that they could have an exit strategy should Pharo some how 
crash, go crazy, quit working or simply fade away like many believe 
Smalltalk already has. It could make some people a little more 
comfortable in a Pharo solution.


He talks about LibreOffice and what benefits it could have if it used 
SQLite rather than a pile of files for persistency. What if Pharo was 
the app and SQLite the persistency for the document? We could do our own 
office suite or whatever. We would have a portable, future proof, 
application file format that people beyond the Pharo/Smalltalk community 
could feel good about.


Which app of yours are you referring to?

Thanks for your input.

Jimmie


On 10/15/2015 03:49 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:

Hi Jimmie,

Nice to see you exploring bridges between Pharo and the external world 
(that was my message about how I planned to contribute to pharo) and 
thanks for the reference about the "Git: just say no" video from Hipp 
(food for my rants with git possessed friends ;-) ).


[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghtpJnrdgbo

My app uses fossil for storage and exports documents in plain text 
using STON[2] format and with this combination I can have a remote 
storage facility which is also pretty portable (just depending on 
Pharo and a fossil portable binaries). Because I'm working with 
documents, STON files can have long text inside, which is treated by 
fossil like binaries and I had not have the time to explore some 
Sven's suggestions to make it diff friendly. Also I would like some 
yaml import export on Pharo (maybe via STON). Pharo + Yaml/STON + 
Fossil could bring us some kind of free schema, human readable, 
external and distributed storage system that can talk pretty well with 
the rest of the world.


Anyway I just want to point that are more people interested in simple 
and external persistence using Hipps ideas and products. Maybe fossil 
+ STON can work for you also.


[2] https://github.com/svenvc/ston/blob/master/ston-paper.md

Keep us posted,

Offray

On 15/10/15 12:58, Jimmie Houchin wrote:

Hello,

I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would 
keep all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and 
Pharo is great at persistence in the image.


But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the 
database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to 
structure my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect 
writing my own database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.


Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not 
want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to 
install anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No 
PostgreSQL or MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.


This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.

In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of 
applications come and go.
(and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older 
than probably half the people here.)


Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works 
and Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We 
loved the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and 
just do stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly 
and sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the 
point that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will 
have to move my data.


Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant 
limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.


My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but 
LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly 
looked at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or 
right tool for the job.


So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my 
learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially 
settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

2015-10-15 Thread olivier auverlot

Hi,

OVH have a very cool plan with Debian7 or 8.

https://www.ovh.com/fr/vps/vps-ssd.xml

Olivier ;-)

2015-10-15 17:40 GMT+02:00 Andres Fortier :

> As an alternative, Openshift has a free plan that includes 3 small gears
> (512RAM - 1GB storage IIRC). I've used to host different things (mostly RoR
> apps) but I think there should be no problem on hosting a Pharo app with a
> DIY cartridge.
>
> Just 2 cts.
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <
> marianop...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Jimmie Houchin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option.
>>> https://www.linode.com/pricing
>>>
>>> I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is simply
>>> an example and one of my options.
>>>
>>> I have not used such a service before.
>>>
>>>
>> I am using Linode and running Pharo and GemStone there (CentOS 7). So far
>> no problem and Linode seem very very cool.
>>
>>
>>> How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case?
>>> Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a problem?
>>>
>>
>> It's not in my case. Linode does invoice for cpu cycles, you simply has
>> CPU assigned and you do not care if it is 100% 24 hours a day or 10% used.
>> Other services like amazon etc do care about CPU cycles (the price is based
>> somehow on that I think), but not in Linode or other VPS-like.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to play
>>> with a web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and not the
>>> standard LAMP setup that so commonly offered.
>>>
>>
>> I am very happy with Linode. It supports many nice things like having
>> multiple virtual images, clone them, backups, etc.
>> For example, I have a Linode template VM that is "ready to run my app"
>> and then I can clone such VM for each site (app instance) we deploy.
>> We have a daily backup, weekly, monthly and one more free slot.
>>
>>
>>> Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>> I think it depends on the type of app. For my case, I do not want to host
>> myself anymore. So I would go for cloud based for sure. Then, you have the
>> VPS like or the amazon-like. Both allow you to grow. I guess you may choose
>> this depending on your type of app. In any case, you end up having a OS
>> where you simply install Pharo and that's it.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mariano
>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
>>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

2015-10-15 Thread Stephan Eggermont


On 15-10-15 17:22, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:



On 15 Oct 2015, at 17:17, Jimmie Houchin  wrote:

Hello,

I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option.
https://www.linode.com/pricing

I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is simply an 
example and one of my options.

I have not used such a service before.

How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case?


We run a few pharo images with a pier site each behind nginx on the 
smallest ($5/mnd) DigitalOcean VPS.


Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS


Thanks for the reply.

Sounds like a winner to me.

Jimmie

On 10/15/2015 10:32 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:



On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Jimmie Houchin > wrote:


Hello,

I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option.
https://www.linode.com/pricing

I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is
simply an example and one of my options.

I have not used such a service before.


I am using Linode and running Pharo and GemStone there (CentOS 7). So 
far no problem and Linode seem very very cool.


How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case?
Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a
problem?


It's not in my case. Linode does invoice for cpu cycles, you simply 
has CPU assigned and you do not care if it is 100% 24 hours a day or 
10% used.  Other services like amazon etc do care about CPU cycles 
(the price is based somehow on that I think), but not in Linode or 
other VPS-like.



I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to
play with a web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and
not the standard LAMP setup that so commonly offered.


I am very happy with Linode. It supports many nice things like having 
multiple virtual images, clone them, backups, etc.
For example, I have a Linode template VM that is "ready to run my app" 
and then I can clone such VM for each site (app instance) we deploy.

We have a daily backup, weekly, monthly and one more free slot.


Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly
appreciated.


I think it depends on the type of app. For my case, I do not want to 
host myself anymore. So I would go for cloud based for sure. Then, you 
have the VPS like or the amazon-like. Both allow you to grow. I guess 
you may choose this depending on your type of app. In any case, you 
end up having a OS where you simply install Pharo and that's it.




--
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

I use DigitalOcean, a 2 core-VPS with 1GB ram could host 10 concurrent
images without any issues, other than the constant ~5% CPU use while
idle. I/O was the bottleneck, so no race conditions between the
different images.

Regards!

Esteban A. Maringolo


2015-10-15 15:00 GMT-03:00 Jimmie Houchin :
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Sounds like a winner to me.
>
> Jimmie
>
>
> On 10/15/2015 10:32 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Jimmie Houchin 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option.
>> https://www.linode.com/pricing
>>
>> I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is simply an
>> example and one of my options.
>>
>> I have not used such a service before.
>>
>
> I am using Linode and running Pharo and GemStone there (CentOS 7). So far no
> problem and Linode seem very very cool.
>
>>
>> How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case?
>> Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a problem?
>
>
> It's not in my case. Linode does invoice for cpu cycles, you simply has CPU
> assigned and you do not care if it is 100% 24 hours a day or 10% used.
> Other services like amazon etc do care about CPU cycles (the price is based
> somehow on that I think), but not in Linode or other VPS-like.
>
>>
>>
>> I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to play with
>> a web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and not the standard
>> LAMP setup that so commonly offered.
>
>
> I am very happy with Linode. It supports many nice things like having
> multiple virtual images, clone them, backups, etc.
> For example, I have a Linode template VM that is "ready to run my app" and
> then I can clone such VM for each site (app instance) we deploy.
> We have a daily backup, weekly, monthly and one more free slot.
>
>>
>> Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>
> I think it depends on the type of app. For my case, I do not want to host
> myself anymore. So I would go for cloud based for sure. Then, you have the
> VPS like or the amazon-like. Both allow you to grow. I guess you may choose
> this depending on your type of app. In any case, you end up having a OS
> where you simply install Pharo and that's it.
>
>
>
> --
> Mariano
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

Garage's SQLite driver is a clone, albeit outdated, of the NBSQLite3 codebase.

So you better stick with NBSQlite3.
Esteban A. Maringolo


2015-10-15 15:31 GMT-03:00 Jimmie Houchin :
> I would love to have an independent full featured, sold out to SQLite,
> adapter for Pharo. However, I have not written one.
>
> The one I have installed but yet to try is the one that is included in
> Garage.
> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~DBXTalk/Garage
>
> But while looking at the link above, I see that it is based upon PharoExtras
> / NBSQLite3.
> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3
>
> I will have to check on that one and see about going to the source. I was
> considering if necessary doing my own FFI later. Might not be required.
>
> I am not looking for any kind of generic database api to save me from SQL. I
> am not looking for being able to switch from SQLite to PostgreSQL.
>
> I want one that is sold out to being the best way to use SQLite. I don't
> want an ORM to save me from SQL. I want sold out opinionated software. :)
>
> So when I get back to the project, probably next week. I will definitely
> look at the NBSQLite3.
>
> Hopefully one of these two will meet your goals, which may be different than
> mine.
>
>
> Jimmie
>
>
>
> On 10/15/2015 01:05 PM, Robert Withers wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jimmie,
>>
>> Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like
>> to evaluate this technology for my stack.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Robet
>>
>> On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep
>>> all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is
>>> great at persistence in the image.
>>>
>>> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the
>>> database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure
>>> my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own
>>> database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.
>>>
>>> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not
>>> want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install
>>> anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or
>>> MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.
>>>
>>> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.
>>>
>>> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of
>>> applications come and go.
>>> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than
>>> probably half the people here.)
>>>
>>> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and
>>> Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved
>>> the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do
>>> stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and
>>> sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point
>>> that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to
>>> move my data.
>>>
>>> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant
>>> limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.
>>>
>>> My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but
>>> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked
>>> at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool
>>> for the job.
>>>
>>> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my
>>> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially
>>> settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is
>>> embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I
>>> create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in
>>> Pharo.
>>>
>>> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted,
>>> reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is
>>> Pharo.
>>>
>>> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he
>>> believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.
>>>
>>> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk
>>>
>>> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File
>>> Format
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc
>>>
>>> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I
>>> encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his
>>> anti-git video.
>>> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be
>>> interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of
>>> using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the
>>> only one. But that isn't a biggie for me.
>>> TL;DW (didn't watch)
>>> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a
>>> (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as
>>> the wrong way,

[Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite


Hello,

I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep 
all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is 
great at persistence in the image.


But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the 
database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure 
my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own 
database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.


Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not 
want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install 
anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or 
MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.


This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.

In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of 
applications come and go.
(and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than 
probably half the people here.)


Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and 
Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved 
the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do 
stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and 
sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point 
that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to 
move my data.


Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant 
limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.


My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but 
LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked 
at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool 
for the job.


So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my 
learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially 
settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is 
embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I 
create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in Pharo.


SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted, 
reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is Pharo.


Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he 
believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.


SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk

2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File 
Format

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc

The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I 
encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his 
anti-git video.
I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be 
interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of 
using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the 
only one. But that isn't a biggie for me.

TL;DW (didn't watch)
Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a 
(zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as 
the wrong way, LibreOffice and git.


I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We 
gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is 
nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of 
the software world.


For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable 
persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who 
don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with 
people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of 
course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people.


I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have 
previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be 
building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project 
generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like 
projects.


Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated.

Thanks.

Jimmie

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

2015-10-15 Thread Robert Withers


Hi Jimmie,

Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like 
to evaluate this technology for my stack.


Thank you,
Robet

On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:

Hello,

I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep
all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is
great at persistence in the image.

But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the
database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure
my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own
database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.

Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not
want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install
anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or
MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.

This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.

In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of
applications come and go.
(and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than
probably half the people here.)

Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and
Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved
the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do
stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and
sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point
that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to
move my data.

Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant
limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.

My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but
LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked
at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool
for the job.

So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my
learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially
settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is
embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I
create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in
Pharo.

SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted,
reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is Pharo.

Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he
believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.

SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk

2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File
Format
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc

The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I
encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his
anti-git video.
I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be
interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of
using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the
only one. But that isn't a biggie for me.
TL;DW (didn't watch)
Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a
(zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as
the wrong way, LibreOffice and git.

I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We
gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is
nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of
the software world.

For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable
persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who
don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with
people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of
course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people.

I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have
previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be
building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project
generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like
projects.

Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated.

Thanks.

Jimmie

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

I haven't used SQLite in Pharo, but I used it in Android. It is a
pretty complete database solution, self contained in a single file
(and a shared library ;-)).

I already posted the slides of the PgCon where Richard Hipp states
that SQLite is the replacement of fopen() and not of a whole RDBMS:
http://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/attachments/319_PGCon2014OpeningKeynote.pdf

You already have drivers for it here:
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3

Regards!



Esteban A. Maringolo


2015-10-15 15:05 GMT-03:00 Robert Withers :
> Hi Jimmie,
>
> Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like to
> evaluate this technology for my stack.
>
> Thank you,
> Robet
>
>
> On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep
>> all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is
>> great at persistence in the image.
>>
>> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the
>> database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure
>> my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own
>> database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.
>>
>> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not
>> want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install
>> anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or
>> MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.
>>
>> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.
>>
>> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of
>> applications come and go.
>> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than
>> probably half the people here.)
>>
>> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and
>> Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved
>> the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do
>> stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and
>> sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point
>> that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to
>> move my data.
>>
>> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant
>> limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.
>>
>> My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but
>> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked
>> at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool
>> for the job.
>>
>> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my
>> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially
>> settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is
>> embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I
>> create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in
>> Pharo.
>>
>> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted,
>> reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is Pharo.
>>
>> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he
>> believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.
>>
>> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk
>>
>> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File
>> Format
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc
>>
>> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I
>> encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his
>> anti-git video.
>> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be
>> interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of
>> using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the
>> only one. But that isn't a biggie for me.
>> TL;DW (didn't watch)
>> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a
>> (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as
>> the wrong way, LibreOffice and git.
>>
>> I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We
>> gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is
>> nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of
>> the software world.
>>
>> For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable
>> persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who
>> don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with
>> people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of
>> course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people.
>>
>> I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have
>> previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be
>> building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

I would love to have an independent full featured, sold out to SQLite, 
adapter for Pharo. However, I have not written one.


The one I have installed but yet to try is the one that is included in 
Garage.

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~DBXTalk/Garage

But while looking at the link above, I see that it is based upon 
PharoExtras / NBSQLite3.

http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3

I will have to check on that one and see about going to the source. I 
was considering if necessary doing my own FFI later. Might not be required.


I am not looking for any kind of generic database api to save me from 
SQL. I am not looking for being able to switch from SQLite to PostgreSQL.


I want one that is sold out to being the best way to use SQLite. I don't 
want an ORM to save me from SQL. I want sold out opinionated software. :)


So when I get back to the project, probably next week. I will definitely 
look at the NBSQLite3.


Hopefully one of these two will meet your goals, which may be different 
than mine.



Jimmie


On 10/15/2015 01:05 PM, Robert Withers wrote:

Hi Jimmie,

Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely 
like to evaluate this technology for my stack.


Thank you,
Robet

On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:

Hello,

I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep
all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is
great at persistence in the image.

But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the
database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure
my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own
database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.

Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not
want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install
anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or
MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.

This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.

In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of
applications come and go.
(and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than
probably half the people here.)

Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and
Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved
the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do
stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and
sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point
that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to
move my data.

Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant
limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.

My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but
LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked
at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool
for the job.

So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my
learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially
settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is
embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I
create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in
Pharo.

SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted,
reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is 
Pharo.


Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he
believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.

SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk

2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File
Format
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc

The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I
encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his
anti-git video.
I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be
interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of
using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the
only one. But that isn't a biggie for me.
TL;DW (didn't watch)
Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a
(zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as
the wrong way, LibreOffice and git.

I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We
gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is
nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of
the software world.

For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable
persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who
don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with
people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

2015-10-15 Thread Robert Withers


Thanks to both of you for the links. I appreciate you.

Robert

On 10/15/2015 02:22 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:

I haven't used SQLite in Pharo, but I used it in Android. It is a
pretty complete database solution, self contained in a single file
(and a shared library ;-)).

I already posted the slides of the PgCon where Richard Hipp states
that SQLite is the replacement of fopen() and not of a whole RDBMS:
http://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/attachments/319_PGCon2014OpeningKeynote.pdf

You already have drivers for it here:
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3

Regards!



Esteban A. Maringolo


2015-10-15 15:05 GMT-03:00 Robert Withers :

Hi Jimmie,

Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like to
evaluate this technology for my stack.

Thank you,
Robet


On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:


Hello,

I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep
all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is
great at persistence in the image.

But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the
database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure
my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own
database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.

Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not
want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install
anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or
MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.

This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.

In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of
applications come and go.
(and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than
probably half the people here.)

Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and
Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved
the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do
stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and
sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point
that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to
move my data.

Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant
limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.

My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but
LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked
at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool
for the job.

So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my
learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially
settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is
embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I
create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in
Pharo.

SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted,
reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is Pharo.

Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he
believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.

SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk

2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File
Format
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc

The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I
encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his
anti-git video.
I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be
interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of
using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the
only one. But that isn't a biggie for me.
TL;DW (didn't watch)
Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a
(zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as
the wrong way, LibreOffice and git.

I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We
gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is
nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of
the software world.

For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable
persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who
don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with
people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of
course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people.

I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have
previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be
building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project
generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like
projects.

Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

2015-10-15 Thread Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Jimmie,

Your approach seems very good from my point of view. As you know, making
directly SQL queries or even writing mappings via a relational mapper are
always a pain. So, my comment is that if you are willing to NOT have acid,
transactions, and many other of the relational db features, you can use a
simple one-file based approach like using plain Fuel, or even SandstoneDB
with Fuel. This scales well for small/medium apps. The good thing with this
approaches is that you do not need to map classes to tables,  and avoid
having write queries etc. Pros and cons, as always.

Cheers,

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Robert Withers 
wrote:

> Thanks to both of you for the links. I appreciate you.
>
> Robert
>
>
> On 10/15/2015 02:22 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:
>
>> I haven't used SQLite in Pharo, but I used it in Android. It is a
>> pretty complete database solution, self contained in a single file
>> (and a shared library ;-)).
>>
>> I already posted the slides of the PgCon where Richard Hipp states
>> that SQLite is the replacement of fopen() and not of a whole RDBMS:
>>
>> http://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/attachments/319_PGCon2014OpeningKeynote.pdf
>>
>> You already have drivers for it here:
>> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3
>>
>> Regards!
>>
>>
>>
>> Esteban A. Maringolo
>>
>>
>> 2015-10-15 15:05 GMT-03:00 Robert Withers :
>>
>>> Hi Jimmie,
>>>
>>> Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like
>>> to
>>> evaluate this technology for my stack.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Robet
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
>>>

 Hello,

 I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep
 all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is
 great at persistence in the image.

 But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the
 database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure
 my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own
 database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.

 Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not
 want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install
 anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or
 MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.

 This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.

 In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of
 applications come and go.
 (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than
 probably half the people here.)

 Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and
 Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved
 the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do
 stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and
 sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point
 that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to
 move my data.

 Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant
 limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering.

 My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but
 LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked
 at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool
 for the job.

 So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my
 learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially
 settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is
 embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I
 create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in
 Pharo.

 SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted,
 reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is
 Pharo.

 Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he
 believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.

 SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk

 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File
 Format
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc

 The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I
 encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his
 anti-git video.
 I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be
 interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of
 using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the
 only one. But that isn't a biggie

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS