[Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Richard Kenneth Eng]

Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ

I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my expectations.

At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to promote
Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.

Richard

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Guillermo Polito]

Hi Richard,

I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic messages 
in the future.

This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any kind 
of propaganda (pharo related or not).
You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about Pharo.
So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.

I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic 
messages.
And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main 
topic of the list (like me).

Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs another 
channel?
I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of this 
list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
   https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org 


Thanks for your comprehension,
Guille

> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng  
> escribió:
> 
> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ 
> 
> 
> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my expectations.
> 
> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to promote 
> Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
> 
> Richard

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Richard Sargent]

I've found this topic both interesting and upsetting at times. I do
understand the desire to address Pharo issues without getting sidetracked
by other topics.

However, this particular thread started as a Pharo user's success story.
Didn't it? Isn't Pharo the implementation used for the contest? Are all
success stories to be banned as a consequence, intended or otherwise?


On Sat, Feb 8, 2020, 11:24 Guillermo Polito 
wrote:

> Hi Richard,
>
> I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
> messages in the future.
>
> This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any
> kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
> You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about
> Pharo.
> So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.
>
> I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
> messages.
> And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main
> topic of the list (like me).
>
> Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs
> another channel?
> I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
> this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
>https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
>
> Thanks for your comprehension,
> Guille
>
> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng 
> escribió:
>
> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
>
> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my expectations.
>
> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>
> Richard
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[horrido]

So this forum is only for Pharo newcomers who have questions? Seems rather
limiting.

When I join other language forums, I look for information about the language
I'm investigating as a newcomer. This can include the language's
capabilities, limitations, real-world usage, new tools, philosophical basis,
and so on. General information across a broad spectrum of topics.

And, yes, even trivia and factoids that I might find interesting. I
appreciate that you don't find this interesting, but other forum visitors
may.

If the Pharo users forum wants to, it could do something as draconian as
StackOverflow does: put a tight leash on submitted questions and boot out
everybody who doesn't comply. This is one reason I don't go to StackOverflow
very often — they aren't welcoming to people who just want to learn general
things.

I've told my readers that the Pharo users forum is welcoming. Please don't
make a liar out of me.



Guillermo Polito wrote
> Hi Richard,
> 
> I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
> messages in the future.
> 
> This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any
> kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
> You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about
> Pharo.
> So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.
> 
> I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
> messages.
> And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main
> topic of the list (like me).
> 
> Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs
> another channel?
> I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
> this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
>https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
> ;
> 
> Thanks for your comprehension,
> Guille
> 
>> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng <

> horrido.hobbies@

> > escribió:
>> 
>> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
>> ;
>> 
>> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my
>> expectations.
>> 
>> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
>> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>> 
>> Richard





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Guillermo Polito]

Hi Richard,

I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic messages 
in the future.

This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any kind 
of propaganda (pharo related or not).
You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about Pharo.
So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.

I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic 
messages.
And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main 
topic of the list (like me).

Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs another 
channel?
I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of this 
list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
   https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org

Thanks for your comprehension,
Guille

> El 8 feb 2020, a las 23:33, horrido  escribió:
> 
> So this forum is only for Pharo newcomers who have questions? Seems rather
> limiting.
> 
> When I join other language forums, I look for information about the language
> I'm investigating as a newcomer. This can include the language's
> capabilities, limitations, real-world usage, new tools, philosophical basis,
> and so on. General information across a broad spectrum of topics.
> 
> And, yes, even trivia and factoids that I might find interesting. I
> appreciate that you don't find this interesting, but other forum visitors
> may.
> 
> If the Pharo users forum wants to, it could do something as draconian as
> StackOverflow does: put a tight leash on submitted questions and boot out
> everybody who doesn't comply. This is one reason I don't go to StackOverflow
> very often — they aren't welcoming to people who just want to learn general
> things.
> 
> I've told my readers that the Pharo users forum is welcoming. Please don't
> make a liar out of me.
> 
> 
> 
> Guillermo Polito wrote
>> Hi Richard,
>> 
>> I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
>> messages in the future.
>> 
>> This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any
>> kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
>> You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about
>> Pharo.
>> So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.
>> 
>> I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
>> messages.
>> And this only chases off this list people really interested about the main
>> topic of the list (like me).
>> 
>> Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs
>> another channel?
>> I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
>> this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
>>   https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
>>  
>> >;
>> 
>> Thanks for your comprehension,
>> Guille
>> 
>>> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng <
> 
>> horrido.hobbies@
> 
>> > escribió:
>>> 
>>> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ 
>>> 
>>>  >;
>>> 
>>> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my
>>> expectations.
>>> 
>>> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
>>> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>>> 
>>> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users]

--- Begin Message ---
I guess I have to re-ask again since nobody answered my question from 
this week...


Where can we post Pharo 
questions/remarks/thoughts/you-might-want-to-have-a-look-at-this-cool-idea/whatever 
(or anything that could be of any interest to Pharoers) ?


MAYBE we need another list...

This is getting ridiculous!  The guy spends energy, time, effort and is 
able to gather 13K in prizes and puts Pharo to the forefront with this 
cool contest in schools, makes a lot of youngsters learn & use Pharo for 
their projects, puts up a website, makes videos, writes blog posts, 
PROMOTES Pharo and he gets slapped for posting here ?!?!  WTF ???


Where should he post?  Where should I post ?

On 2020-02-08 17:35, Guillermo Polito wrote:

Hi Richard,

I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic 
messages in the future.



--
-
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
Instagram: Chef_Benito
IRC: lamneth
GitHub: bstjean
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)


--- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Pierce Ng]

On Sat, Feb 08, 2020 at 05:50:18PM -0500, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users wrote:
> MAYBE we need another list...

Maybe Richard just needs to adjust the style of his mails...

> This is getting ridiculous!  The guy spends energy, time, effort and is able
> to gather 13K in prizes and puts Pharo to the forefront with this cool
> contest in schools, makes a lot of youngsters learn & use Pharo for their
> projects, puts up a website, makes videos, writes blog posts, PROMOTES Pharo
> and he gets slapped for posting here ?!?!  WTF ???

Like if the subject of Richard's mail is "Pharo success story part 3:
blah blah" and his opening paragraph is descriptive, similar to what you
wrote above, I'd read the mail and watch the video. As it is, his mail
is content-free and comes across purely as self-promotion.

Pierce

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[horrido]

Self-promotion??? I generally dislike inserting myself personally into
Smalltalk advocacy. My campaign is all about Smalltalk; I'm just the
vehicle.

If you're referring to my comment "at the risk of sounding immodest," I am
rightfully proud of my video. It does a damn good job of promoting Pharo.
Beyond that, however, I don't ever want this campaign to be about me.

So what self-promotion are you referring to?

As for "content-free," the video is good content, at least, from the
perspective of marketing. Of course, you wouldn't think it was valid content
if you don't believe in marketing Pharo, a sentiment that I think is
unfortunately shared by many in this forum.



Pierce Ng-3 wrote
> On Sat, Feb 08, 2020 at 05:50:18PM -0500, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users
> wrote:
>> MAYBE we need another list...
> 
> Maybe Richard just needs to adjust the style of his mails...
> 
>> This is getting ridiculous!  The guy spends energy, time, effort and is
>> able
>> to gather 13K in prizes and puts Pharo to the forefront with this cool
>> contest in schools, makes a lot of youngsters learn & use Pharo for their
>> projects, puts up a website, makes videos, writes blog posts, PROMOTES
>> Pharo
>> and he gets slapped for posting here ?!?!  WTF ???
> 
> Like if the subject of Richard's mail is "Pharo success story part 3:
> blah blah" and his opening paragraph is descriptive, similar to what you
> wrote above, I'd read the mail and watch the video. As it is, his mail
> is content-free and comes across purely as self-promotion.
> 
> Pierce





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Pavel Krivanek]

so 8. 2. 2020 v 23:33 odesílatel horrido  napsal:

> So this forum is only for Pharo newcomers who have questions? Seems rather
> limiting.
>
> When I join other language forums, I look for information about the
> language
> I'm investigating as a newcomer. This can include the language's
> capabilities, limitations, real-world usage, new tools, philosophical
> basis,
> and so on. General information across a broad spectrum of topics.
>
> And, yes, even trivia and factoids that I might find interesting. I
> appreciate that you don't find this interesting, but other forum visitors
> may.
>
> If the Pharo users forum wants to, it could do something as draconian as
> StackOverflow does: put a tight leash on submitted questions and boot out
> everybody who doesn't comply. This is one reason I don't go to
> StackOverflow
> very often — they aren't welcoming to people who just want to learn general
> things.
>
> I've told my readers that the Pharo users forum is welcoming. Please don't
> make a liar out of me.
>

We do not need to make a liar out of you. See your old e-mails:







*So, is Pharo being used to fight Ebola? Not exactly, but who cares?
I'mtrying to change people's perception. I'm trying to *move* them. If I
haveto exaggerate, I will do so.Has everybody heard of Smalltalk? Of course
not. And it doesn't matter. I'mtaking /literary licence/. As a writer and a
marketer, I am allowed to dothis.*

-- Pavel

Guillermo Polito wrote
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> > I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
> > messages in the future.
> >
> > This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse
> any
> > kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
> > You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question about
> > Pharo.
> > So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.
> >
> > I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
> > messages.
> > And this only chases off this list people really interested about the
> main
> > topic of the list (like me).
> >
> > Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs
> > another channel?
> > I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
> > this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
> >https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
> > <
> https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org>;
> >
> > Thanks for your comprehension,
> > Guille
> >
> >> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng <
>
> > horrido.hobbies@
>
> > > escribió:
> >>
> >> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
> >> ;
> >>
> >> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my
> >> expectations.
> >>
> >> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
> >> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
> >>
> >> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Pavel Krivanek]

so 8. 2. 2020 v 23:58 odesílatel Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <
pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> napsal:

> I guess I have to re-ask again since nobody answered my question from
> this week...
>
> Where can we post Pharo
> questions/remarks/thoughts/you-might-want-to-have-a-look-at-this-cool-idea/whatever
>
> (or anything that could be of any interest to Pharoers) ?
>
> MAYBE we need another list...
>
> This is getting ridiculous!  The guy spends energy, time, effort and is
> able to gather 13K in prizes and puts Pharo to the forefront with this
> cool contest in schools, makes a lot of youngsters learn & use Pharo for
> their projects, puts up a website, makes videos, writes blog posts,
> PROMOTES Pharo and he gets slapped for posting here ?!?!  WTF ???
>

You need to see the whole story. This guy with a messianic syndrome started
his aggressive campaign by spitting on every other programming language and
he is constantly spamming the social media by void articles that are often
full of lies while showing whole community in a very bad light of fanatic
fools. He (alone) came with the idea of the competition and started to
demand money for it. Then he started to blame anyone who didn't want to
provide money to him. He is constantly rejecting any critique and feedback
so do not be surprised that otherwise very friendly people are losing
their patience.

-- Pavel


>
> Where should he post?  Where should I post ?
>
> On 2020-02-08 17:35, Guillermo Polito wrote:
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> > I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
> > messages in the future.
> >
> --
> -
> Benoît St-Jean
> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
> Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
> Pinterest: benoitstjean
> Instagram: Chef_Benito
> IRC: lamneth
> GitHub: bstjean
> Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
> "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[horrido]

Exaggeration is not a lie, especially in the context of /marketing/. We've
all seen marketing campaigns on television, in social media and magazines.
They all contain exaggerations and half-truths. You don't seem to understand
what marketing is all about.



Pavel Krivanek-3 wrote
> so 8. 2. 2020 v 23:33 odesílatel horrido <

> horrido.hobbies@

> > napsal:
> 
>> So this forum is only for Pharo newcomers who have questions? Seems
>> rather
>> limiting.
>>
>> When I join other language forums, I look for information about the
>> language
>> I'm investigating as a newcomer. This can include the language's
>> capabilities, limitations, real-world usage, new tools, philosophical
>> basis,
>> and so on. General information across a broad spectrum of topics.
>>
>> And, yes, even trivia and factoids that I might find interesting. I
>> appreciate that you don't find this interesting, but other forum visitors
>> may.
>>
>> If the Pharo users forum wants to, it could do something as draconian as
>> StackOverflow does: put a tight leash on submitted questions and boot out
>> everybody who doesn't comply. This is one reason I don't go to
>> StackOverflow
>> very often — they aren't welcoming to people who just want to learn
>> general
>> things.
>>
>> I've told my readers that the Pharo users forum is welcoming. Please
>> don't
>> make a liar out of me.
>>
> 
> We do not need to make a liar out of you. See your old e-mails:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So, is Pharo being used to fight Ebola? Not exactly, but who cares?
> I'mtrying to change people's perception. I'm trying to *move* them. If I
> haveto exaggerate, I will do so.Has everybody heard of Smalltalk? Of
> course
> not. And it doesn't matter. I'mtaking /literary licence/. As a writer and
> a
> marketer, I am allowed to dothis.*
> 
> -- Pavel
> 
> Guillermo Polito wrote
>> > Hi Richard,
>> >
>> > I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
>> > messages in the future.
>> >
>> > This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse
>> any
>> > kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
>> > You’re not asking a question about Pharo, nor answering a question
>> about
>> > Pharo.
>> > So I personally find all these emails off-topic and uninteresting.
>> >
>> > I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such
>> off-topic
>> > messages.
>> > And this only chases off this list people really interested about the
>> main
>> > topic of the list (like me).
>> >
>> > Maybe this shows this competition / PR campaign you’re running needs
>> > another channel?
>> > I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose**
>> of
>> > this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
>> >https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
>> > <
>> https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org>;
>> >
>> > Thanks for your comprehension,
>> > Guille
>> >
>> >> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng <
>>
>> > horrido.hobbies@
>>
>> > > escribió:
>> >>
>> >> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
>> >> ;
>> >>
>> >> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my
>> >> expectations.
>> >>
>> >> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
>> >> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>> >>
>> >> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>>
>>





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[horrido]

Now, who's telling lies?

I have never "demanded" money for the competition. I've asked for donations
through Kickstarter and GoFundMe. I didn't demand anything from LabWare;
they were so impressed with my campaign, they offered to support it. Your
characterization of me is inaccurate and unfair and downright insulting. I
really don't understand where your vitriol is coming from.

I have never "blamed" anybody for not donating. People are free to donate or
not; I understand that and it's fine.

Your characterization of my social media posts as "void articles" is also
very insulting. As I said in another post, you don't seem to understand what
marketing is all about. To you, anything that isn't technical information
nor source code is void and vacuous.

I don't "reject" feedback. I listen to it and if it makes sense, I act on
it. Do all your feedback make sense? If I don't believe it makes sense, am I
"rejecting" it? You seem to think that I should accept your feedback without
question. Why should I? Who are you?

You say I've been "spitting on every other programming language." It's fair
game to compare Smalltalk with other languages. Am I "spitting" when I point
out the weaknesses of other languages? Why are those languages off limits?

Your use of loaded terms like "messianic" and "demand" and "blame" and
"reject" shows that you are strongly biased against me. I don't know what I
did to deserve your disdain, but I won't stand for it. I have my dignity and
my grace. You, on the other hand, have no honour.

And just for the record, many people appreciate my effort and support it.
Does it please everybody? Of course not, nor should it. So if some of you
are impatient with me, what am I supposed to do with that?



Pavel Krivanek-3 wrote
> so 8. 2. 2020 v 23:58 odesílatel Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <

> pharo-users@.pharo

>> napsal:
> 
>> I guess I have to re-ask again since nobody answered my question from
>> this week...
>>
>> Where can we post Pharo
>> questions/remarks/thoughts/you-might-want-to-have-a-look-at-this-cool-idea/whatever
>>
>> (or anything that could be of any interest to Pharoers) ?
>>
>> MAYBE we need another list...
>>
>> This is getting ridiculous!  The guy spends energy, time, effort and is
>> able to gather 13K in prizes and puts Pharo to the forefront with this
>> cool contest in schools, makes a lot of youngsters learn & use Pharo for
>> their projects, puts up a website, makes videos, writes blog posts,
>> PROMOTES Pharo and he gets slapped for posting here ?!?!  WTF ???
>>
> 
> You need to see the whole story. This guy with a messianic syndrome
> started
> his aggressive campaign by spitting on every other programming language
> and
> he is constantly spamming the social media by void articles that are often
> full of lies while showing whole community in a very bad light of fanatic
> fools. He (alone) came with the idea of the competition and started to
> demand money for it. Then he started to blame anyone who didn't want to
> provide money to him. He is constantly rejecting any critique and feedback
> so do not be surprised that otherwise very friendly people are losing
> their patience.
> 
> -- Pavel
> 
> 
>>
>> Where should he post?  Where should I post ?
>>
>> On 2020-02-08 17:35, Guillermo Polito wrote:
>> > Hi Richard,
>> >
>> > I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
>> > messages in the future.
>> >
>> --
>> -
>> Benoît St-Jean
>> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
>> Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
>> Pinterest: benoitstjean
>> Instagram: Chef_Benito
>> IRC: lamneth
>> GitHub: bstjean
>> Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
>> "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)
>>
>>
>>





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Ben Coman]

Hi Guille,

Full disclosure, I've spent the past 6 months using my discretionary hobby
time
programming the infrastructure for this competition using Pharo, so my
viewpoint may be biased.

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 at 03:25, Guillermo Polito 
wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
messages in the future.
>
> This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse
any kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).

This list is not just for asking questions.  There are plenty of [ANN]
posts advertising new libraries
and blogs articles.  Following completion of the competition, the MIT
licensed code repository will be announced here.
Hopefully it may provide an engaging exercise for Pharo teachers to their
with their students.


> I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
messages.

Unfortunately the original post was quite bare and failed to show how it
was Pharo-topical.
So I can understand how it triggered you.  I hope the additional background
info provided here alleviates some of your concern about it.


> I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
>https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org

The purpose I see there seems fairly generic... "This is the general
mailing list for users of Pharo."

The competition is programmed in Pharo and Pharo is promoted later in the
video with screens like...

[image: image.png]
[image: image.png]

But that promotion is not the main thing.  The main thing is simply that
this is-A competition programmed using Pharo,
and as such this list seems reasonable a reasonable place discuss it.
Although the "smalltalk" title of the video is not ideal,
that was the name of the competition when it was originally going to use
VisualWorks, and so it carried over.

A final thing to consider is how welcomed the dozens of competing students
may feel if they are watching this list
and see their Pharo based competition spurned by the community.

So with this additional perspective, may one post a week be allowed to
share the progress of the competition?

cheers -ben


> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng 
escribió:
>
> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
>
> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my expectations.
>
> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>
> Richard
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[horrido]

Thanks, Ben.

> Although the "smalltalk" title of the video is not ideal, that was the
> name of the competition when it was originally going to use VisualWorks,
> and so it carried over.

Not only that, but if you look at jrmpc.ca, it uses the word "Smalltalk" all
over the place. The sponsors include LabWare (who doesn't use Pharo),
Simberon (who doesn't use Pharo), and TSUG (Toronto *Smalltalk* User Group).
It's "Smalltalk" everywhere! And that's fine because Pharo is a Smalltalk.



Ben Coman wrote
> Hi Guille,
> 
> Full disclosure, I've spent the past 6 months using my discretionary hobby
> time
> programming the infrastructure for this competition using Pharo, so my
> viewpoint may be biased.
> 
> On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 at 03:25, Guillermo Polito <

> guillermopolito@

> >
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Richard,
>>
>> I’d like to invite you to refrain yourself from posting such off-topic
> messages in the future.
>>
>> This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse
> any kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
> 
> This list is not just for asking questions.  There are plenty of [ANN]
> posts advertising new libraries
> and blogs articles.  Following completion of the competition, the MIT
> licensed code repository will be announced here.
> Hopefully it may provide an engaging exercise for Pharo teachers to their
> with their students.
> 
> 
>> I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic
> messages.
> 
> Unfortunately the original post was quite bare and failed to show how it
> was Pharo-topical.
> So I can understand how it triggered you.  I hope the additional
> background
> info provided here alleviates some of your concern about it.
> 
> 
>> I know you don’t agree, but I invite you to read here the **purpose** of
> this list, just for respect to people subscribed to it:
>>https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org
> 
> The purpose I see there seems fairly generic... "This is the general
> mailing list for users of Pharo."
> 
> The competition is programmed in Pharo and Pharo is promoted later in the
> video with screens like...
> 
> [image: image.png]
> [image: image.png]
> 
> But that promotion is not the main thing.  The main thing is simply that
> this is-A competition programmed using Pharo,
> and as such this list seems reasonable a reasonable place discuss it.
> Although the "smalltalk" title of the video is not ideal,
> that was the name of the competition when it was originally going to use
> VisualWorks, and so it carried over.
> 
> A final thing to consider is how welcomed the dozens of competing students
> may feel if they are watching this list
> and see their Pharo based competition spurned by the community.
> 
> So with this additional perspective, may one post a week be allowed to
> share the progress of the competition?
> 
> cheers -ben
> 
> 
>> El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng <

> horrido.hobbies@

> >
> escribió:
>>
>> Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
>>
>> I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my
>> expectations.
>>
>> At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
> 
> 
> image.png (28K)
> ;
> image.png (91K)
> ;





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Ben Coman]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 at 08:01, horrido  wrote:

>
> > Although the "smalltalk" title of the video is not ideal, that was the
> > name of the competition when it was originally going to use VisualWorks,
> > and so it carried over.
>
> Not only that, but if you look at jrmpc.ca, it uses the word "Smalltalk"
> all
> over the place. The sponsors include LabWare (who doesn't use Pharo),
> Simberon (who doesn't use Pharo), and TSUG (Toronto *Smalltalk* User
> Group).
> It's "Smalltalk" everywhere!


That is what it is. Can't change it.  The sponsors are being very generous.


And that's fine because Pharo is a Smalltalk.
>

But pushing that line here may generate further controversy around the
competition that will not help anyones cause.
There are other forums you can do that.  Here lets focus on the "Pharo"
aspects of the competition. :)

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[Guillermo Polito]

Hi Ben,

> El 9 feb 2020, a las 21:01, Ben Coman  escribió:
> 
> > This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse any 
> > kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
> 
> This list is not just for asking questions.  There are plenty of [ANN] posts 
> advertising new libraries 
> and blogs articles.  Following completion of the competition, the MIT 
> licensed code repository will be announced here. 
> Hopefully it may provide an engaging exercise for Pharo teachers to their 
> with their students.

I know, and I don’t mind announcements from time to time.
But announcements are generally marked with [ANN], and are kind of self 
explanatory.
The mail Richard sent is, and I’m sorry to be harsh, spam.

> > I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such off-topic 
> > messages.
> 
> Unfortunately the original post was quite bare and failed to show how it was 
> Pharo-topical.
> So I can understand how it triggered you.  I hope the additional background 
> info provided here alleviates some of your concern about it.

Maybe. Maybe Richard could work his emails a bit more?

I’ll quote his original email:

> > El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng  > > escribió:
> >
> > Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ 
> > 
> >
> > I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my expectations.
> >
> > At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to promote 
> > Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
> >
> > Richard

I particularly, who hasn’t followed the competition, am completely lost with 
this email.
With the risk of sounding harsh, again, but trying to give some feedback 
Richard can work on:
- The subject does not imply it is an announcement, nor what the results are 
related to or how they got there
- For those that are not following this competition: what is this round 1? Are 
there many of them? What is this about? are there many teams?
- There is no single link to the competition website, what this is about, 
whoever contributed to it...
- Clicking on the link gives a video with a title that is as ambiguous as this 
email :(
- I check the description of the video: what is there in the video? not clear. 
How will it appear in a youtube search in the future?
   At least it seems there are links to the website...
   Yet, Really? do I have to watch the video before I can know if this is 
interesting for me or not? :P

Happily these points could be addressed in the future.

> So with this additional perspective, may one post a week be allowed to share 
> the progress of the competition?

Can the posts have better quality? :/

Still, I’d feel more confortable with an alternative, such as using discord.
What about having a dedicated #jmrpc channel on discord where people could ask 
questions too?

What about twitter? I havent seen this on twitter. Is it there?

Now, I already spent too much on this :)
Time to get back to something productive.

Cheers,
Guille

Re: [Pharo-users] The results are in!

[horrido]

I shall endeavour to make my posts more meaningful, starting with [ANN]. My
bad.



Guillermo Polito wrote
> Hi Ben,
> 
>> El 9 feb 2020, a las 21:01, Ben Coman <

> btc@

> > escribió:
>> 
>> > This list is for people to *ask* questions about Pharo. Not to diffuse
>> any kind of propaganda (pharo related or not).
>> 
>> This list is not just for asking questions.  There are plenty of [ANN]
>> posts advertising new libraries 
>> and blogs articles.  Following completion of the competition, the MIT
>> licensed code repository will be announced here. 
>> Hopefully it may provide an engaging exercise for Pharo teachers to their
>> with their students.
> 
> I know, and I don’t mind announcements from time to time.
> But announcements are generally marked with [ANN], and are kind of self
> explanatory.
> The mail Richard sent is, and I’m sorry to be harsh, spam.
> 
>> > I have the feeling this list has been lately flooded with such
>> off-topic messages.
>> 
>> Unfortunately the original post was quite bare and failed to show how it
>> was Pharo-topical.
>> So I can understand how it triggered you.  I hope the additional
>> background info provided here alleviates some of your concern about it.
> 
> Maybe. Maybe Richard could work his emails a bit more?
> 
> I’ll quote his original email:
> 
>> > El 8 feb 2020, a las 19:12, Richard Kenneth Eng <

> horrido.hobbies@

>   horrido.hobbies@

> >> escribió:
>> >
>> > Round 1 — #1 Leading Team: https://youtu.be/QWHeN5WXfBQ
>> ;
>> >
>> > I'm actually quite amazed by their effort. They surpassed my
>> expectations.
>> >
>> > At the risk of sounding immodest, I think this is a terrific way to
>> promote Smalltalk (Pharo). I think the video is an absolute blast.
>> >
>> > Richard
> 
> I particularly, who hasn’t followed the competition, am completely lost
> with this email.
> With the risk of sounding harsh, again, but trying to give some feedback
> Richard can work on:
> - The subject does not imply it is an announcement, nor what the results
> are related to or how they got there
> - For those that are not following this competition: what is this round 1?
> Are there many of them? What is this about? are there many teams?
> - There is no single link to the competition website, what this is about,
> whoever contributed to it...
> - Clicking on the link gives a video with a title that is as ambiguous as
> this email :(
> - I check the description of the video: what is there in the video? not
> clear. How will it appear in a youtube search in the future?
>At least it seems there are links to the website...
>Yet, Really? do I have to watch the video before I can know if this is
> interesting for me or not? :P
> 
> Happily these points could be addressed in the future.
> 
>> So with this additional perspective, may one post a week be allowed to
>> share the progress of the competition?
> 
> Can the posts have better quality? :/
> 
> Still, I’d feel more confortable with an alternative, such as using
> discord.
> What about having a dedicated #jmrpc channel on discord where people could
> ask questions too?
> 
> What about twitter? I havent seen this on twitter. Is it there?
> 
> Now, I already spent too much on this :)
> Time to get back to something productive.
> 
> Cheers,
> Guille





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html