[Phono-L] videos on the making of phonograph cylinders
http://youtu.be/aAvBl-4h4cU http://youtu.be/XS9l79FtrSU http://youtu.be/VB_YDdPRJYI The Above videos take you from Edison's cylinder blank production to how blanks are made at Borri Audio Laboratories. You will see the manufacture of metallic soap, the molding of a phonograph blank (in 1900 and present) and how the blank is trimmed and edged. Only 3 people on the planet who can share this with you. Lets stop the bickering, by the way, all of us who make these things are friends, all put a ridiculous amount of time into something not so appreciated, and sometimes ridiculed as phonographic blasphemy. Add up the time of each operation. The compound takes 7 hours to make, about an hour to mold each blank, and 10-15 minutes to trim and edge a blank. They sit for 30 days and are shaved, shaving a blank from 2.39" down to 2.196-2.170 takes 20-30 minutes. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Another cylinder maker.
Chuck and I do not live far apart, and he is a good friend of mine. His blanks are serious business, as far as he documents every small detail that happens in every batch. Every batch is sampled and tested, and each blank comes with a data sheet. As all of us who make blanks, his has a unique sound, as all of us do serious recordist should have on hand Richards, Borri and Morris blanks , and experiment with all our products to see what instruments, our blanks record the best, or what sounds best to you. All new blanks have a very similar formula, stearic acid, lye, aluminum and ceresin wax, as a base, the percentages for each of us is slightly different and some add other components as well. What I think is great about the fact that new blanks are available. Is one you do not have to cut down dictation machine blanks, which were never intended to make a lasting recording (they were designed to take a clear dictation, and be played a few times, and then shaved, after t hey were typed up. ) The Components were similar to a brown wax blank, but not of the best lasting qualities more tempering wax, more oil, and more glycerin and olaic acid than a lasting blank. Ediphone blanks are non toxic, aluminum base but paraffin, and stearic pitch make the recordings short lived. Other brands of dictation machine blanks, may contain lead stearate which can cause heath issues if one shaves enough of them down, and maybe even the swarf coming off of them. Then there are those who like to shave original brown wax cylinders. Some collectors have a low standard of what might be a cylinder not worth saving, and thus because a record may have some mold spots, or noise, then what is the harm for shaving it to make a new recording on? From 1889-1901 less than 8 million brown wax cylinders were made, there is not many of them left, each for the most, part is a unique performance, some true were pantographed but many were by the round. So when is an origi nal brown wax able to be shaved, I can't answer that question, I think if it has a few words that can be heard, leave it be! Chuck, Paul, and I offer fine blanks, at a reasonable price, and the quality can be superior to original brown wax blanks, as they are made in small quantities, under cleaner conditions, and some of the ingredients actually have improved since the 1890's. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Edison Cutter Stili
Many missed the boat on the cutting stili that Rich and I had worked on, at least 7 years ago, maybe more. I had designed the stylus and Rich made it happen. It was cupped center sapphires, as close to an original Edison 2 minute cutter that can be made, they were made long (10mm) so you could handle them, easier than the shorter ones. To my knowledge they all sold. They work great, I have used them in my recorders for many years And anyone who has any of my recordings, either acoustic or electric has heard them. If there was enough interest I sure would like to see them ordered up again, I could sure use about 20 of them to revive the dead recorders in my fleet. Yes Expert Pickups has them, but they are a chisel shaped affair, and you have to get them just right to get them to record. Making the stylus holder takes forever so I do not like to work on recorders for others, as I do not have the time, it can easily be 14 or 15 hours of work that goes by wiz bang adju sting the angle testing and re adjusting. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Not rushing old technology in todays fast paced instant I Want It NOw society.
Does the place in the Netherlands, actually make Shellac records. It seems too many people think this old technology is like going to the store and purchasing it and it is ready right away, it would be nice but that is not how it is. It is my understanding it takes a minimum of a day to make the metal parts alone to make a78. Wax cylinders for example take 3-4 hours to make the initial batch of wax, which I make 16lb batches, it must cool for a full day, and then is broken into chunks. (for example I made a batch yesterday, and finished at 5:00 P.M. At 9:30 am it is still warm to the touch. Better wax is made when you heat the wax up twice and cool. (so this takes 3 days) When it is time to mold blanks, a certain percentage of scrap wax is melted first, then the fresh new wax batch is added and it is cooked Prior to moulding it is cooked for about 45 minutes.( Scrap wax is cracked, and broken blanks, trimmed ends and shavings from the shaving machine) I forgot to mention a little scrap wax is used to make the fresh wax. For a test, the wax is poured in the mold and a blank, formed to the standard procedure and is then smashed into pieces to check to make sure the wax is ready , the interior is checked to make sure the wax is the same throughout the thickness, and no bubbles, and no layers or precipitates. If the batch passes this test The blanks are moulded when it is of a normal 75 degrees to 85 the blanks cool in still air which takes 20minuts to an hour, when it is hotter, the blanks are water cooled with warm water. If the test blank does not pass. The wax is adjusted, by adding either stearic acid, or sodium carbonate depending on if it is too hard, too soft, or precipitated. The wax is heated from 20- 45 minutes to adjust the batch. The blanks sit for about 3 hours, although sitting one day is better and are checked to make sure they are cool, and then a standard phonograph mandrel is placed inside, and the bl ank trimmed so that both ends are past each end of the mandrel. The cylinders sit another day, and are then edged and then rough shaven down to half the final thickness in other words about 2.25" thick. Then they are checked on the mandrel again. The blanks are not touched for at least 2 weeks but 30 days is better. You can record on the blanks when they are cool , and get a decent recording, but you get still better recordings when you let them season. If you record too soon on them there is a chance your grooves will shrink slightly or the blank warp a little. The blanks I make usually do not need to be reamed, it happens sometimes. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Home SN
Hi George I have Home H 1265, about when was this made, I am thinking about February 1897. It has a brass mandrel, I used to have the original carriage however it was very rusty where the half nut was, Thinking back it was a dumb mistake, I traded it for a good one that had clips, I think the original had two screw holes for the clips instead of four, the original carriage was a weighted half nut, the one I have is the spring kind. It has an Automatic reproducer. I might put it back to the weighted kind, If I could ever find one. It is a solid top work, not with the hole in the center, however the last patent date is 1893, and it has a cast iron lower pulley, and the on off, pushes the yoke rather than having its own pad, it also has the holder for the lift lever casting in the bed plate. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Cylinder blanks ect.
I do offer cylinder recording service, it is 35.00 a cylinder. I make blanks 10 for 150.00. http://members.tripod.com/~Edison_1/ is my website, I do have acoustic and electrical ways of transcribing, I rather am fond of acoustic dubbing though, it offeres more clarity and less distortion. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Two molds now producing spiral core blanks.
I finished the second blank mold last week, I have one mold that is right handed and one that makes a left handed spiral core in the blanks. I took blanks to Union IL to introduce them. While the end product is a standard 4 1/4 ( mine run 4 1/2" at times) The blanks come out of the mold thicker than an Ediphone blank, and the molds in fact will make dictation blanks that are 6" long and will even work with the Ejectomatic on the late Ediphones. Today was my first time molding with two molds, and we started molding at five, and ended at 7pm CST, and molded 6 good blanks during this time, there was one that was rejected, otherwise there would have been seven. The blanks are shaved to 2.190" in diameter, and I have a stop on the shaving knife, that when they get to that size, it stops shaving,. I am wondering if this even is too thick? I measured lots of original cylinder records and found they range from 2.130-2.175" in diameter. I want to offer the most shaves per blank. They are still the same price. New boxes will be here soon, so they will soon sold singly instead of dozens and half dozen boxes. At present though they are sold the half and full dozen until the single boxes are done. The new ordering process is that you put a suggestion, on a list, that you would like blanks, and when they are finished, you pay, and they are shipped, I think this is as fair a method. The new molds certainly have reduced the defective blank ratio to very few, and the blanks are much faster to mold. I also have a 20 year old apprentice who is learning how they are made. The first job was shaving blanks, and now watching how to mold records. My goal will be to mold 40 blanks in an 8 hour period. Sincerely Shawn Borri ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] New spiral core brown wax blanks.
I will have some examples of the new spiral core brown wax blanks I make at the Union show. http://members.tripod.com/~Edison_1/ You can see a photo of them. One new mold is done, and working, the other should be finished soon. The new design, made the reject rate only 10% instead of 60% and I am sure the more I get familiar with the new equipment, that will improve too!! The wax is much better too, much quieter. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] introducing the new recording blank.
http://members.tripod.com/edison_1/ If you look on my homepage the new 2 minute brown wax cylinder blank has come to fruition. The molds have been in planning since last summer, and the prototype was tried out a few weeks ago, and produced historically accurate blanks. It makes my old blanks look pretty crude, I will admit. Sorry guys for this, but I like improvement! They are shaved to maximum diameter of 2.185" The blanks are spiral core, like original blanks and are 2.8" in long, (They are checked on 3 phonograph mandrels to make sure they fit all machines before leaving., These blanks offer more recording time, and can be used to make masters for the hard non metallic soap records, that other make today. The molds can also produce 20th century blanks, and Ediphone blanks, When blanks come out of the mold they are 2.42" in diameter. The new equipment, is proprietary information, and will not be shared. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Re grease
I use Mobile 1 synthetic grease for springs, and I mix in some graphite to help along. I use synthetic castrol on the motor with not too much problems,. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Updates.
My new blank molds should be finished by the end of next week, so I will have examples for sale at Union this year. I am very excited, Because of constructive feedback, from you all I have been tackling the diffficluties one by one. The new blanks have an outside diamiter of almost 2.3" I know it sounds like a lot of waste wax, but this will ensure that the surface is absolutely free from any defects, and perfectly quiet and also will have a double helix spiral like the original Edison blanks. I think that output will be incereased as well as quality. I have been busy with this, so things have been slow, I hope you all appreciate the work I have done on these. Most have no idea how much goes into this. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Negovan/Borri EP
http://www.etsy.com/listing/91444053/thomas-negovan-by-popular-demand-blood Is where you can purchase a copy of this projects. The 45 rpm, eight song 10" blood red and ink EP was a 500 copy limited edition pressing, in Art Nouveau style. The masters for all songs were from brown wax that we recorded in an 1890s field recording style sound. The project was totally analog, there was no digital editing, Thank You, Shawn Borri ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Bolden Movie
I hope they release the movie, they spent over $50,000,000 on it, it has well known actors. As for Buddy Bolden record, as far as I know the cylinders were destroyed when the shed that the cylinders were kept in, was torn down in 1960. The actual recording machine that Oscar Zahn had used to make the recordings exists, it is a high case model B Standard with script Edison. You know though maybe someone went to the dump, where the cylinders were deposited and picked them up That would be great, and of such historical significance. My father picked up some brown waxes to sell the other day, and there is a home recording of a piano, and dulcimer, that has got to be one of the best home recordings I have ever heard, it is actually better than some GM releases! I am going to make some vidios of it playing and it will be for sale soon on my website. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Duke Specal RE
This was a recording session I did with Duke Special, and released by EMI for this CD in the UK, they came to Illinois to make recordings, and I was called by Dr. Mark Rubel to come in the studio for a cylinder session, I used some unique diaphragms, and the recording came out awesome! We used studio condenser microphones to get the original sound, it was as loud as a gold moulded record. I should purchase a copy for my archives. I gave a lecture at Millinkin University in Decatur IL for his class, it was on public TV. Some of my clients have been Thomas Edison Historical Park, Walt Disney, The Bolden movie, that is still in production.Myth Busters, Duke Special, Al Duval, Thomas Negovan, Full compass Audio,Pablo Helguera. I also was a runner up for librarian and cataloger at the Library of Congress. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Duke Special session.
Was doing some looking today, to see if any footage was around from recording the Irish pop artist Duke Special, and I found a little clip in the documentary on the making of "I never Thought This Day would Come" And I thought I would share it with you, look around the 19 second mark, you see my recording horn. http://youtu.be/rgJ7U5bQKtk ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 8, Issue 356
Thomas Negovan and I gave a lecture on cylinder history and recording at the TedX motivational speakers consortium in Naperville IL (1893 Columbian Exhibition.) It was a real treat to partake in this event. I know you are saying "why are you using a cygnet horn to record with, are you daft!" I tried many different ones previous to the event, and with the recorder I used this horn gave the best recording quality, plus it made it easy to play back as well. A very low noise high output cylinder issued from this event, and Thomas played in a normal playing manner. The real treat also was setting up in the lobby afterwards, and playing recordings, and having a Q.A session. There is definitely more interest with the general public, it still amazes and astounds, especially when done right. Of course many of the scientists, and lecturers were inspired by Thomas Edison. When the video goes up, you will be able to hear this as well, will update where and when this is available. Sincerely Shawn Borri http://www.flickr.com/photos/tedxnaperville/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] New cylinder record project.
Hello all, here is the latest cylinder project. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/337503446/2011-cylinder-record-to-tape-to-vinyl-all-analog-r/posts If you wonder why it takes so long to receive orders, here is an indication of why, this project was over 100 hours to complete, just my part. If I run out of materials, it may be a long time before I am able to replenish my supply of materials, which must be purchased in 50lbs+ quantities. The reject rate for blanks, was about 60%, and each blank, no matter if good or bad is 30-60 minutes to mold. The compound made in any quantity, takes a minimum of 3 hours to make, and sometimes can be 10 or more hours. I have made lots of improvements in the last few months, and recently made a monumental discovery, by finding that double pressed stearic, is close to what the original kind used by record makers for brown wax records, And for years I have been using triple pressed, and wondered why I had to use less aluminum, and caustic and more ceresine that the original recipe. I experimented last week with some double pressed, some thing I had avoided for over 10 years and had p ut away years ago. I went back to trying it out, after the experience of thousands of blanks under my belt and many years of practice. The result was astonishing, with what I know of the composition data, the last experimental blanks made a week ago, had even more properties close to the original brown wax, the right smell, and it melts the same as when you melt original "wax", and has the gelatinous stage that the triple pressed does not and most importantly, when you break the cylinder open, it has no crystal layer at all, that means the absence of streaks and stars ,what I also liked better was the quieter surface. Having talked to my suppliers, of material about the history of stearic acid, and what time period different kinds of materials came to be, there was no such thing as triple pressed stearic acid in the 1890s, it was not around until after WWI, long after the brown wax cylinders heyday. The double pressed must be cooked in a very special mannor, or it will f og and this requires very specific temperatures to be heated too, very dangerous temperatures of over 450 degrees.What I really liked is the fact the new wax followed the original formula exactly, and behaved like it should, that is a broken piece of the new wax, next to one of original 1890s brown wax was the same, and very hard to tell the new from the original. This is just so exciting all this. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] prices
The class M was $20,000.00 and the Edison Bell Commercial was $15,000.00. Charley Hummel. Had a nice selection of brown wax records. I had chats with Paul Morris, his blanks are much improved, over two years ago, they. Fit the mandrel better, and new wax formula. We talked about how difficult it is to meet orders in a timely mannor, because of the curing aspect f manufacture. It was nice talking with Larry Donley were still trying to find a lost interview with Clarence Furguson. Much enjoyed Jasper Sanfillipo Collection went with Tim Mc Cormick. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] prices
The class M was $20,000.00 and the Edison Bell Commercial was $15,000.00. Charley Hummel. Had a nice selection of brown wax records. I had chats with Paul Morris, his blanks are much improved, over two years ago, they. Fit the mandrel better, and new wax formula. We talked about how difficult it is to meet orders in a timely mannor, because of the curing aspect f manufacture. It was nice talking with Larry Donley were still trying to find a lost interview with Clarence Furguson. Much enjoyed Jasper Sanfillipo Collection went with Tim Mc Cormick. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 8, Issue 143
I know this will strike horror in some collectors,. However when LOC moved the archives from D.C. To Culpepper, I applied for a job as an audio expert there, and did make it the first interview, stage which I thought was quite an accomplishment. I am still a consultant. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] new name? OR Quit.
Effective immidiately, no longer Edison Phonograph Works. Thought about quittng this hobby someone either steals my work, claiming it as there own, makes complaints, not to mention the $200,000.00 worth of experimental live cylinders that are mia. I. Have a daughter now and I do not need all the trouble, I have put lot of time and effort and I get headaches and dissapointment back. I have got lung damage, burns ect trying to make quality product, now thanks to a Mr. S on another list I cant even give credit to my main mentor who got me through my childhood, kept me away from drugs and alcohol, I do not even smoke. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] celluloid test pressing.
Allen, the kind of cylinder it is I have only heard of one other example, It could be any company working on a celluloid cylinder, as it had no title or number on it, there was no printed title end,it was the woodflour, smooth bore core, it was brown celluloid, much the same color as brown wax, it also was not recorded at 160, but 144rpm, not a commercial record, as i think a test pressing. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] U.S. test cylinder
Allen, the core was a pressed woodflour, with a glue binder, and the celluloid was brown, it had no title, on the end, just announced Sousa's Latest March, Jack Tar Played by Hedges Orchestra. I ment it was a U.S record, the sound quality was very good. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] re what is this?
Yes, I was thinking U.S. Too! I transcribed a rare brown celluloid prototype Everlasting record, with a Yellow composit core, it was Jack Tar by Hedges Orchestra,. You could hear people talking just before the announcement, the bass response was exellent. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Re What is this.
The first time I viewed this and made my answer, I just saw the top of the recorder, which Is shaped like the Edison factory recorders, I was viewing it on a phone, and so now I went back to it, and made the photos bigger, and observed the other photo of the business end on a regular computer. It still is a recorder, I do not think it is an Edison one, although it follows the same layout of a studio recorder, shape, the advance ball knob is more star shaped on this example and Edisons are more nickel and round, though if it was a lateral recorder the cutting stylus would be pointed down towards the bottom of the casing, however in this one, it still in line with the diaphragm. The advance ball jewel is missing, and would fit in the hole in the metal spring bar, this would sit with the horn tube facing up and the star wheel facing up, to adjust the depth of the cut, this goes on a trunion style affair, where this bobs up and down on the the disc or cylinder, it looks verti cal to me, The round stud is where the cutting stylus is supposed to be mounted, the affair in the center is the linkage to the center of the diaphragm,still a really interesting piece, for sure, and it seems the jewels are the only thing missing. And still I hope whomever gets it uses it! Sincerely Shawn ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] what is this?
I thought I was among seasoned old timy collectors who knew everything, about everything! This. Is an Edison/ Walter Miller factory recording head, for studio use to make master cylinder recordings, the knob is the advance ball adjustment. This device should ONLY be in the hands of someone that is adept at, and intends, to use it for the purpose so stated, has the knowlwdge to build the special carrage to use it. It would be a shameful, for this part to be purchased someone who puts it away, never restores it , does not intend to use it, that. Would be a waste! I know how to restore it and use it, does anyone else? I had a collector tell me he had a whole Edison studio lathe, and. He put it away in some barn, and I offered to teach him how to use it ect, and he said heWould leave it where it was and did not want to sell it. Oh how frustrating! Page 45 of the new "In The Groove" has this device in place, it also can be used to record Diamond Disc masters, as well. What I w ant to know is how this is in public hands? This should be at the T.E. Historical Park, perhaps the guy who stole the signatures, stole this too? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] UJ cds
I need to redo the cd, I have the master, but my daughter broke my laptop. I should redo the whole cd with sonar the 44bx and the united audio tube pre amp with benchmark A/D convertor. It is a small state of the art studio I do phone hold commercials for, http://www.audioproductionsonline.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] wax making
The wax is made in an open carport,as making the wax has bad fumes reaching well over 400 degrees. I now use an accurate digital themometer. The molding is done at a much lower temperature, and the mold is kept warm, but the mandrel has to be cooled for each record. I have to organize and put more parts in the movie. The mold is 11 years old made by Rick Jorgensen, a joint design. To my knowledge there is no original spiral core Edison brown wax blank molds in exsistance, just BA, and GM maxtrix casings. The closet blank molds to being original are at Donley's, and belonged to Clarence Furguson. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edison brown wax manufacture
A have posted a few movies on youtube showing the process of making the aluminum stearate soap base for brown wax. Most all cylinder waxes, brown and black, Edison, and Columbia, use an aluminum soap base, the colorant, and other attitives are what make them different. C http://www.youtube.com/edisonworks ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] amberola cabinets
I woud retore the III cabinet at all costs, the shelf is not hard to duplicate. My A-150 dd had a missing shelf, and I made a new one with a mahogany board, and made a stencil of another machine and duplicated it. Many f these cabinets are almost black and very bubbed, restore it! The 150 is one of my fave cabinets. The 1-A is a belt driven machine with a motor similar to a mdel F or G triumph, I had an opera and I-A in the shop at the same time. Rebuilt both the M and L reproducers on them too. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Cal Stewart and Shawn Borri on Dr. Demento show.
I found a playlist for Dr. Demento, and it had an original Cal Stewart, and also Uncle Josh Buys a Computer by Shawn Borri (me). I have not listended to Dr D in awhile, so I was really surpised to find me on here. http://dmdb.org/cgi-bin/plinfo.pl?drd10.1106.html I have not listened to the show, though, and wonder where he found this recording, it is very rare, I only made three cylinder copies, and it was only availble on the Shawn Borri Phonograph CD that sold no copies, on MP3.com, unless someone pirated this. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] an idea
One of my ideas I always wanted to do, was open a working cylinder studio, that used the floorplan of 79 5th ave, in a turn of the century building, have the studio upstairs, and a model of an Edison dealership downstairs. The studio could record two and four minute cylinders, and diamond discs, and sells the new records, has listening booths. Ill never have the funds though to do this. I have the technical knowhow but that is it, is there grants available? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 7, Issue 196
I always notice that threads about frankenphones, and non helpul stuff like that go on forever,while. Talk about how to mold records, or how to adjust the brushes on the governor, so there is no wow , or how to. Change the electrolytic, sal amoniac for Grennet plunge battery for a class M get no responses. By the way keep the contact points on the govenor clean, the copper brushes touching with the same pressure on both sides, and make shure to keep a little above 2 amps, at all times so the motor is strong, the few. Cass Ms I heard were way out of adjustment, they should have no wow or flutter, they were recording Phonographs for goodness sakes! ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] cylinder advancements
The latest blanks are the same color, hardness and tone as a regular brown wax Edison Blanks. I have more precision equipment, a digital themometer and an ohuas laboratoy balance down to a hundreth of a gram, for more batch consistancy. The changes in color of brown blanks have nothing to do with ingrediants, Edison blanks were the same basic formula, from 1889 to the advent of four minute black blanks about 1912. Color has to do with how long the batch is cooked, all batches start out light and go darker. I have a preheat now that make bubbles a thing of the past, and consistancy throughot the thickness. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] restored or not
It depends, If a machine is original and in exellent condition, leave it alone cosmetically, although the works should be cleaned, and adjusted. I had an amberola x in the other day, and cleaned the works and put it back together the belt was original and good shape, it worked great two hours of work, the cusotomers. Came back shoked, it had not layes in sixty years. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] interview for peria magazine
I had an interviewer a few moths ago whotook the amtrack, then to my house via bycicle. Http://peoriamagazines.com/as2010/nov-dec/outside-box-inside-cylinder or go to google. Shawn Borri. Peoria magazines. Will work too. It is full page color. I actually had the record plant set up as well. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] early GMs
Yes, Allen, the numbers are very hard to see, I have The Star Spangled Banner, and In the Shadow Of the Pine. The. Grooves almost go to the end of the record, and the numbers very faint. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] early molded records
Steve,7000 series is what I have seen. I think that flat enders were made until about 1903,and yes, the surface is very thin, with thick ribs, the ribs on the cylinders. Are made. With a special knife, and this was done when the record was still expanded in the mold, and the record hot, however cool enough to retain the shape. And when they had sat a few days the ribs were Reamed to fit the taper of a phonograph mandrel. The comp was changed about 1904 for the round end records. Ebonite (which was melted at 350 degrees). And wet copper powder added to this, then stearic, soda aluminate, ceresin and pine pitch. What ebonite actually is, is a mystery, I do not think it is hard rubber, as ebonite is called for other purposes, but may have been a trade name of montan wax . The formula says you can sub caranauba with "Ebonite", and montan has properties similar to carnauba, and you do not smell rubber when you melt a 1905 era GM record, you can shure smell the pine tar. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] flat end gold molded
Kind of curious how many early , flat end Edison molded records are around. It seems many of these still have brown wax catalog numbers. I only have two. The composition for these is very similar to brown wax, except for caranauba and lampblack, and more aluminum. COLUMBIA black wax is nothing more than borwn wax with a higher comcentration of aluminum and lampblack. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Blanks for Sale and Rich Goodin Contact me.
Hi Phono L, I have 3 dozen new brown wax blanks for sale, they have channeled North American rims, and all but 2 blanks are various shades of brown, there is a white, and a yellow cream colored one in the lots, made of the same formula, they are just from an earlier batch before I started cast iron cooking them. Cooking them with cast iron gives them a different surface and homoginizes the wax better, and duplicates the original brown color, with slight reddish cast) these blanks fill the entire phonograph mandrel to facilitate a longer recording, (almost 2:45 @ 160) and may be plated to make moulds, these blanks have fine spiral ribs inside, much finer than the original Edison blanks, probably the only way to tell my blanks apart from one made in 1892! These blanks use high grade Ceresine as the tempering agent. Price is 150.00 per dozen. Contact me via email or call me at (815) 608-0024. I might have one more dozen to cast, then I am out of materials. Since 2000 I ha ve made around 2,000 pounds of banks. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edison recording saphires-Rich Goodin
Rich, several people have contacted in need of the recording points please contact me. 815-608-0024. Thanks. Shawn. > From: phono-l-requ...@oldcrank.org > Subject: Phono-L Digest, Vol 7, Issue 129 > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:00:02 -0700 > > Send Phono-L mailing list submissions to > phono-l@oldcrank.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://oldcrank.org/mailman/listinfo/phono-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > phono-l-requ...@oldcrank.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > phono-l-ow...@oldcrank.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Phono-L digest..." > > > If you reply, please change your subject line and don't include this entire > digest in your message. > > Today's Topics: > >1. Now that its over what were they thinking? (Steven Medved) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 20:48:02 + > From: Steven Medved > To: phonolist ,Phono-l > > Subject: [Phono-L] Now that its over what were they thinking? > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330459729791 > > > > -- > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > End of Phono-L Digest, Vol 7, Issue 129 > *** ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] decals
I have never really liked water slide decals, my favorite are the varnish transfer, using the solvent, and then shellac over the top, and on early machines using a bugler striping kit, to make the gold stripes, with gilding powder dissolved in artist oil , or a gold paint pen for corners, and use the solvent decals for trademark, put a thin coating of amber shellac over it.I did a whole banner decal the other day on a Triumph, and it turned out pretty good, water slide type, let it dry for a few days, then shellac over it, yup I used bulls eye, and it turned out great, you use a solution, that lets the delcal be moved around a little more, and when it dries, brush on a solvent that melts the water slide into the wood, it does not blure or anything, fills all the pors.. I wish they still had the banner in the solvent decals, they really look original. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Changes and observations making wax.
I have lost count now, of how many blank cylinders I have molded, from raw materials, it is over ten thousand probably approaching seventeen thousand! This includes experiments, and ones that did not make it. My last project was for the Buddy Bolden motion picture that is being filmed in Wilmington NC, it has been in the shooting stage for about 5 years now, and I so far have supplied over 100 blanks for this project, and the sad part is a majority of them were smashed in the film and not in the mail, but on purpose! One of my most favorite, and interesting projects of this year was making 6 blanks of the kind used to record the 1888 Edison "Trip Around The World", and Edmond Yates ect, to be displayed on the oldest wax cylinder Edison phonographs made at West Orange in mid 1887 and 1888, the precursor, to the perfected phonograph these are of course are at West Orange New Jersey, so if you want to see them they are there, I really want to see these on the phonograph s in person, I have seen photographs of them on the machines, and this was very very exciting, Mr. Fabris told me they are extremely difficult to tell apart from the originals. My venture in re discovering the wax blanks was a rather strange trip. The Cylinders I made in 2000 were composed of stearic, aluminum, dissolved in caustic and paraffin and beeswax for the tempering agent, I then did not use beeswax in the later part of 2001. I made some rather strange composition that was just saponafied double pressed stearic, and I boiled chunks of lead in the caustic, hoping a few particles would go in the wax, these had no paraffin or ceresin, and the heat of summer caused this experiments, to decompose, the records were quite hard! Both Ayslworth (Edison) and Mcdonald (Columbia) made this mistake. I also had a formula of aluminum stearate paraffin, and pine tar, this was a very brown compound. By 2002 the composition was back to the aluminum stearate and paraffin, and I then changed to ceresin as the tempering agent by the end of 2002. By 2003 I had added sodium carbonate to the wax, and this is very close to the Aylsworth Edison formula as can be, for records. My one exclusion in all this was that I had made the wax in an aluminum laboratory warmer, that had a dial that said 400 degrees, however it really only got up to 360 degrees at best, it did the job, but the wax had to be cooked for a very long time, and the wax slowly took on more aluminum from the warmer. A few weeks ago, I made my setup more authentic, by finding a nice little black, cast iron,cauldron, that makes slightly more wax than the laboratory warmer, that I have used for over 10 years,and a gas camp stove, this heats the wax all the way up to over 400 degrees, and browns the wax, and gives it that slight reddish, orange cast that you see in most original Edison blanks. The early metallic soap cylinders of 1889 had the aluminum element derived from acetate of alumina , and this was cooked in lead lined kettles, they soon after changed to a cast iron cauldron when they did away with the acetate in about 1895. Some interesting things that Jonas Aylsworth noted when experimenting with the wax was the quality of stearic acid, he had tried many different brands, and found that Mitchell's was, at the time the lowest in oleic acid and glycerin, If either of these two elements are in the phonograph wax, they are apt to cause fogging, or a leeching of these elements to come to the surface and etch the records, When there was problems with the cylinders, at the Edison works in the mid to late 90s, Aylsworth always found the problem to be the stearic, it also cause tiny bubbles to form in the wax, this was a problem with Proctor and Gamble stearic, so he told them, to set aside the P&G and use the Mitchell brand, this was done and the problem solved. Today stearic is not rendered animal fat, but palmatic acid, or derived from palm oil, instead o f bovine fat, or tallow as In Edison's day, It does not seem to get as moldy as the original kind, but is much harder, so the original formula saponafication suggestions, are way off, and has to be reduced very much, basically if you add the original amount of aluminum hydroxide and sal soda, the blanks will become almost as hard as a wax amberol! I have put over 10,000 hours, into experimenting making the formula, every day, more questions arise. Ceresin was a lignite coal wax originally, and was a refined ozoerite wax. There is no natural Ceresine made today, it is a ultra high grade paraffinic wax, the grain structure and flow much finer than paraffinic. Having asked every wax supplier I can of where I can find these elements, in there original natural state has basically none of these ingredients are in there original form! I hope you found my ramble interesting. Thee is only one other fellow, I know who has as much or more experience making wax bla
[Phono-L] various cylinder stuff
One customer of mine that over the years has used over 300 of my blanks, for saving voices of those who are the last to speak certain dialets, and to tell stories, and turn the Phonograph into characters. This is a vidio explaining his various projects, Pablo Helguera. There were very little blanks of regular white or brown, most were pink, green blue red ect. http://www.smac.us/2010/04/25/pablo-helguera/ This is something about brown wax blanks you might find interesting, that Jonas Aylsworth said. Aylsworth looking at blanks in a court case from page 30 and 31. "Yes, I can identify these as being made prior to 1893, because of the manor of making the blanks, as seen in 4, 5, and 6 especially, must be very old because when cut into it is seen that there is a change of color, the outside being a salmon color and the small portion of the interior, or middle is the original color of the cylinder. This change in color, I am familiar with and know the cause to be the gradual absorption of oxygen, which causes the stearate of iron which the record contains as an impurity derived from the iron kettles, to change to the ferric or higher oxidation stage, which produces a brownish or salmon color. It would take years for the action to penetrate the depth which it has in these two records. I observe that since the records were cut to take samples for analysis early in January up to this time, there has been no perceptible change in the lighter interior portion; the age of a composition of this kind could be fairly accurately determined by the depth of discoloration. These records are the same composition and were manufactured previous to 1893 by the Edison Manufacturing Company and Edison Phonograph Works. And which were molded into records and blanks and sold commercially _ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Electrical transcription playback.
http://www.gradolabs.com/frameset_main.htm These are wonderful cartridges, Grado Labs, they are in Brooklyn New York, and very reasonable, audiophiles love them, I have a grado green on my turntable, and you can get various stili for it, and with a frequency range of 10-50,000 cps, you can't go wrong. _ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Class M Belt Adjustment.
Edison patent 499879 shows the tension adjustment you speak of. "The Screw C serves to adjust the frame A on the box B for the purpose of tightening the driving belt as will be presently explained, and the lugs b' are slotted to permit this movement the screw b being finaly tightend after the proper adjustment of the driving belt has been secured." Patened June 20th, 1893 and applied for July 30, 1888. somewhere I have a few parts list for Perfected and class M phonographs. This adjustment screw is located just under the left end of the mandrel, there should be a casting that has this screw, as part of the bottom motor bedplate. This can be seen in Fig 1 of the patent. _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 5, Issue 260
This is kind of Terse and an angry vent. I have never recovered finacially from what happened in New York. I must apologize for what happened there. ML has really ruined my name. Larry Tedder and Thomas A Edison national Park all had not so good results either in dealings with ML. I should of known something was fishy when he contacted me and sounded like a used car salesman or a Hollywood scout. He told me he was a record producer and had connections with record companies ect, it was partiallly true, he did know some record companies, and we did go to Edison Historic site ect, and I was excited about all this. Things did go fine for the first 4 months of "Borri Records, as he called it.Borri Records was more his making than mine, what orders he actually brought into me, I made. I never wanted to really call it that anyway. The shaver in question, ML has, he also has the Edisonia reproducer, and one of my shavers, and 500 wax cylinders that I moulded and recorded and a few hundered new cylinder storage b oxes. I own only 1 shaver and it is a 1905 Edison one. From what I have seen those live cylinders, when I caught 2 of them for sale, on ebay and they went from 200.00-400.00 each they were 2 moe. recording session ones M L sold about 2 years ago. He made a vidio of those and I posted them on my website, more as evidence than anything else. If the 500 or so live experimental records are worth 100.00 each then just the cylinders taken from me are worth $50,000.00. So Shawn Borri is the biggest victim of Borri Records, pretty ironic, and the whole thing still makes me sick to this day. Today I only sell what I make no matter how much anybody pleads. When I was in upstate New York, working for ML, I worked most of the 9 months in New York from 6am one day to 2am the next day, making blanks, and 5 days a week. The cylinders paid for rent and food, I never even got to see the bills or even how many cylinders were sold or anything, the email account password and ebay passwo rd were changed. By the time I caught wind of what he was doing, it was too late, I was livid. I put my tail between my legs for being nieve and headed back home. I think total during the whole venture I had $40.00 of spending money, the rest I never saw. To know that I have put in thousands of hours, actually moulded around 10,000 blanks , and probably 20,000 or more if you consider experiments and ones that went back in the pot. since the year 2,000.00 makes me sick how much New york ruined my research. There is only 2 of us in the world who has put this much time and effort in the study of blank cylinder records, Paul Morris and myself. My greatest wish in the world is to work in a museum as a full time as curator of sound recordings, making cylinder records, and teaching about acoustic record making. I work for DHS now and basically have enough money for rent bills and diapers. I do make cylinders but I really am not able to afford the upkeep on the equipment, or have as much time. I now make 2 dozen blanks a month if I am lucky. I do consider the blanks I make now, the best of the best, I am a perfectionist so still over half the ones I mould go back in the pot, and when you consider all the steps from wax to ship ping 1-2 hours a blank is a low estimate. Cylinders can only be made in the fall early spring and winter, or in an air conditioned environment in the summer with a de humidifier. http://members.tripod.com/edison_1/id24.html Is my latest batch of blanks. All this resarch and the 78L crowd when I talked about cylinder composition, gave me jeers and called me a lier. I read all of Aylsworths notes, i have read all the Columbia formulas as well, and made models of these. Sincerely Shawn Borri > So I guess I really should not hold it against him. > > Steven Medved wrote: > > The guy was selling the records for Shawn, he never paid Shawn and just > > took the money and never sent the records. Shawn did give me a record when > > I contacted him. Shawn was happy to make the records and was not involved > > with the selling. Did you ever contact him? > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:01:07 -0500> From: chris...@cox.net> To: > > > phono-l@oldcrank.org> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] should I get Pay Pal?> > I > > > had the same problem with Shawn Borri and it still rankles. I even > > > > defended him to strangers because he had a good reputation. No apology, > > > > no refund. I understand his partner screwed him over and he had severe > > > > financial problems, which he may not yet have recovered from; and there > > > > are people who speak well of him.> > clockworkh...@aol.com wrote:> > YES > > > ! ! !> > > > I actually will bid way higher with a seller using PayPal > > > and I have gotten > > some phonographic bargains from sellers who > > > demanded only money orders. Once > > the ease and
[Phono-L] Lark Junior Phonograph??
Had a customer inquire about this machine. Figiure it probably dates from 1917-1919 or thereabouts. I saw a lark Junior phonograp in the window of a store. I want to know who makes it and how much it could be worth. they did not seem to know much about the player. It seem to be in great condition and it worked. It had an Edison Record on it. please let me know where I can get some infor on this machine. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 6, Issue 159
It has an automatic. > > According to the Paul article H1265 is from August 1897. > > What reproducer do you have? > > Steve > > > > My early Edison home is number H1265, last patent date is June 30, 1893. > > _ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Low serial number Edison home.
My early Edison home is number H1265, last patent date is June 30, 1893. (This still probably dates from around 1897). This machine has the lift lever rest on the left side, and a brass mandrel, cast iron drive pully on the bottom, not skelital topworks, Originally had the weighted feed nut, but changed carrages, because the weight was very corroded and rusty. The on and off lever presses on the governor pad, instead of having it's own The govorner weights are brass. It is a very smooth working machine, plays very well. Shawn Borri _ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] 1892 edison phonogram
The audio was at first transfered by Treusound Transfers and Christian did some work to it. I did some further work on it, today, about 1:15 you can understand some of the record. This would be the second oldest record of Mr. Edison. The record belongs to a private party, in upstate New York. The audio for this cylinder is http://www.myspace.com/thenorthamericanphonographcompany This kind of blank is similar to the blank used on the WKL Dickson sound cylinder, smooth bore. This blanks is very much like the ones I make, wonder why they did not offer them commercialy like that. I wonder if these were a batch of the recalled blanks from late december of 1888, and they may have used them for experiments just to have a use for them, even though they new they were not a permenant wax??? What little I can understand is "All is fair game", and talking about stock dividends _ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 6, Issue 150
I have not found a shure fire way yet, of shipping cylinders, I now try to by the eggs that come in a square with the 2 carton sides, and wrap my cylinder boxes in that and tape them up real good, then bubble wrap around that. The inside has bubble wrap between the 3 rows of blanks. There is nothing as disheartning as sending out a dozen cylinders which all an all is 12 hours of work, and a month of setting. I usually double the insuance on them so the customer can get there money back if they do arrive broken. I much rather hand deliver them than ship them. I sell them in storage boxes that have 12 tube pegs in them. I am a father raising children so I do not make as many anymore, and do not accept any orders, what I sell I make when I can.I estimated that in the New York adventure, I had almost $300,000.00 worth of material stolen from me. Never been quite able to recover from that, I work for DHS making $9.25/h does not leave much to do phonographs. _ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edison Historic site???
Edison historic site question. Does anyone know when the Edison historic site will open, Just curious. It will probably be a long time before I go out east again. _ Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile1_042009 From deedeebl...@yahoo.com Tue Apr 14 13:11:12 2009 From: deedeebl...@yahoo.com (DeeDee Blais) Date: Tue Apr 14 13:11:18 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Suitcase Home case only for sale - $100 Message-ID: <580727.17473...@web37002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am selling a Suitcase Home case only for $100. It's a good solid case but is missing the decal and a couple of the clips. Photos gladly sent. Please contact me off list if interested. Thanks, Jerry Blais 541-990-0781 or jerry.bl...@yahoo.com From deedeebl...@yahoo.com Tue Apr 14 13:25:19 2009 From: deedeebl...@yahoo.com (DeeDee Blais) Date: Tue Apr 14 13:25:28 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Sounds of Nostalgia Phonograph Sale 5/17/09 Message-ID: <781709.25970...@web37008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mark your calendar for May 17th for the annual Sounds of Nostalgia phonograph sale is Salem, Oregon. The sale was moved from February to May in hopes of attracting collectors from a greater distance. This show is the oldest on the west coast and has been attracting collectors for over thirty years. DeeDee and I are hosting an open house at our home in Albany, Oregon on the 16th and everyone is invited. Tables for dealers are only $20 each. If interested or have any questions, please contact me off list. Thanks, Jerry Blais From wilenz...@bellsouth.net Tue Apr 14 14:11:09 2009 From: wilenz...@bellsouth.net (Raymond Wilenzick) Date: Tue Apr 14 14:11:11 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Columbia BD "Majestic" For Sale Message-ID: <004001c9bd45$893fe970$6401a...@wilenzick> I have decided to sell from my personal collection a Columbia BD "Majestic" disc phono, and am offering to the list before putting on eBay. It is a truly majestic and impressive machine in perfect condition. Columbia's largest 3-spring motor, very quiet. Outstanding 11 panel nickel horn, 24" long, 23.5" bell (also Columbia's largest horn). Mahogany case with 12" turntable, also in outstanding condition. Same as pictured in Baumbach's book, p. 83 and Riess' book, p. 153. $2200. Contact me OFF-LIST please, if interested. Ray Wilenzick wilenz...@bellsouth.net From jackwhe...@hotmail.com Tue Apr 14 17:22:18 2009 From: jackwhe...@hotmail.com (Jack Whelan) Date: Tue Apr 14 17:23:50 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] How common is this Victor horn? In-Reply-To: <2862cf16-204c-4e7d-be9a-ddfe5089e...@mac.com> References: <49e4169e.30...@comcast.net> <2862cf16-204c-4e7d-be9a-ddfe5089e...@mac.com> Message-ID: Anytime I do a little research, it makes me appreciate the work done by authors such as Robert Baumbach, and Tim Fabrizio and George Paul (and a few other great researchers) who produce the great books of our hobby. I found a bit more information, actually pieces of information that can be researched further. Victor Distributing and Export Company (VDEC) was listed in the International Cable Directory (in conjunction with Western Union) in 1901, listed as one of Victor Talking Machines 29 Distributing Agents advertising in Scribners Magazine in 1902, The Smart Set, a magazine of cleverness, May 1903, Pearson?s Magazine May 1903. Listed as one ofVTMC?s Distributors on January 31, 1903, from Sarnoff Library. It advertised in the Philistine Magazine (yes, Elbert Hubbert) June 1905. Listed in American Trade Index (English/French) of 1906 as a manufacturer of phonograph records. Paid New York State Taxes of $45.00 in 1906, $17.17 in 1910. Listed in Directory of Directors (directors of corporations) City of New York 1907. Major fire at VDEC offices October 1907; news story says VDEC, a maker of phonographs on 4th and top floors at 77 Chambers St. NY mentions fifteen girls employed there. VDEC merged with the New York Talking Machine Company, the surviving entity after the merger according to the New York State Legislature Laws, from the One hundred thirty third session, Jan-May 1910. >From on-line text from David Sarnoff Library concerning VTMC: ?Victor's export activities may be said to have started in 1898 when Mr. Johnson made his first shipments to London. However, this consisted of supplying material for another brand. The first export shipments under Victor's trade marks were made, no doubt, through the Victor Distributing & Export Co. of New York in 1903. This company had been taken over as a wholly owned subsidiary in 1904. (I?m not so sure this information is correct). Victor apparently started to export from Camden in 1906. No records have been found of specific earlier shipments?. Have fun, Jack Whelan > Fro
[Phono-L] good phonograph
I will have to agree with Greg on the Newcomb school phonograph. This has a ceramic cartridge, however, but still sounds great, and the proper stylus for LP and 78 rpm records, We have one of them. The one we have is tube, although later on they were transistor, I prefer the sound of the tube one, they do not have the edgieness that the transistor ones have coupled with the ceramic, and even sound to me as good as a magnetic on transistor amplification. You can go out of the headphone jacks on these and go right into your computer, and transcribe 78 s, with remarkable fidelity, they are a good bang for the buck. These days I use a Dual turn table with Shure 78S cartridge, going into a Harmon Kardon tube pre. When I am feeling really vintage, I hook my Western Electric/RCA Audiometer to a set of 01a tubes, to the aux in on my HK. The WE/RCA cartridge is the same kind you can record on the RCA grooved recording discs. _ Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112008
[Phono-L] Lateral Vs Vertical.
Hello everyone. Thinking of the L and V issue, I have a very simple response from cutting records. I had recorded Laquers with the Fairchild lathe , in order to record high frequencies, I had to boost them to a dangerous level almost burning the coil up. When you record you boost highs and limit the lows, and the opposite when you play them back. I used the same head to record hill and dale cylinder records on Edison blanks, and could record the cylinders almost flat, and the lows and highs sounded very similar to the original recording, and the highs did not have to be boosted to the dangerous levels of the lateral disc of which the head was designed to cut, so it certainly seems that it is harder to record highs on lateral recordings than vertical. Some of you on the list have some of these electrically recorded cylinders in your collections with modern music on them, you can state the same I am sure. When it comes to bass however, vertical records are much harder as lifts occur, but you can increase the ambient wax temperature and record deeper grooves, and record more bass The lowest bass note I had recorded on cylinders was 16 cps, however this was a test tone, with no other frequencies added, it was very difficult to do but can be done. Lateral records record bass with relative ease, however if the volume is to high the grooves run into eachother and must be spaced apart more. (Most modern recording lathes do this automatically.) If you listen to companies that recorded lateral and vertical records you can hear much clearer records, with vertical recordings time and time again. Pathe', Gennette ect. _ Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008
[Phono-L] Blanks for Sale
Hello everyone I have 36 blanks for sale, in 3 boxes, a dozen blanks per box. PO money Order or papal. I only sell what I make. 216.00 per box, in the US. _ You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/
[Phono-L] Triumph Model F for sale
I am taking offers on a Triumph model F, in Opera style case. Let mebe honest this was a basket case machine, and needs cabinet work onthe hinges. The motor has new springs, and bull gear, it needs theproper long on and off lever, an original aduster for the tension. itis sans reproducer and horn. It will need a lid and nickel plating.Here are some links to photos of the machine. It does work finethough, and plays well. there are probably less Triumph Fs around than Operas it was available at the same time the Opera was and sopeople would have opted out and spent the 90.00 for the Opera,instead of the $75.00 for the Triumph. It has been refinished byme probably 8 years ago.http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/darksound1973/100_2101.jpghttp://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/darksound1973/100_2102.jpghttp://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/darksound1973/100_2103.jpghttp://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/darksound1973/100_2105-1.jpghttp://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/darksound1973/100_2105.jpghttp://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/darksound1973/100_2109.jpghttp://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/darksound1973/100_2100.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/darksound1973/100_2097.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/darksound1973/100_2112.jpg _ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/
[Phono-L] Napkin Rings
These are little 30 second stubby cylinders, that I have a contract with a museum with, that are specifically for school children to test their voice on cylinders. I don't sell the napkin rings as the Mould is supplied by the museum, and I am not ready to say for who. _ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_family_safety_072008
[Phono-L] Concert Records
SAs far as I know P.M. is the only maker of wax concert records. I though think he sells blank concerts too. I only make standard and napkin ring cylinders and blanks. I wish I had concert moulds for blanks, but do not as yet. I think Wizard has new concerts made of the new hard material. I do not have a concert Phonograph, anyhow to record on. _ Time for vacation? WIN what you need- enter now! http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm
[Phono-L] Duke Special cylinder session
I went to Champaign IL to Pogo Studioshttp://www.pogostudio.net/aboutpogo.htmand did a most wonderful recording with Duke Special from Ireland. Heis known for his gramophone effects in his recordings. We cut 2 songson cylinder for the up-coming CD. I am not at liberty to say anythingmore than that. Pogo Studio is owned by Mark Rubel, and has to be oneof the most compleate recording stuido and has original equipmentdesigned by Bill Putnam and used by him personally at UniversalRecording Corp.http://www.dukespecial.com/Go to the Recording in Chicago pics, and you will see them clusterdaround a horn. The horn was used to make band recordings at EdisonRecords around 1904 or so. _ Watch ?Cause Effect,? a show about real people making a real difference. Learn more. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause
[Phono-L] Union??
Hello, everyone, just wondering if we have any reports on the Union Phonograph show, I did not get to attend this year?? _ The i?m Talkathon starts 6/24/08.? For now, give amongst yourselves. http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst
[Phono-L] 1881 Bell Tainter Disc
http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/recording/images/PDRM1554a.jpg They label this as a lateral disc recording, but to me it looks vertical, just that the sound waves are near the top so they look lateral. The date 1881, many years before the Berliner disc, has anyone played this disc? Was this disc known about previous to the Berliner patent on disc records? You would think that the patent office would have not accepted the Berliner patents if this was known about?? ; _ Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?souce=EML_WL_ GoodCause
[Phono-L] Union
I most likely will not be attending this year, would like to but will probably be working. Edison Phonograph Works has a new phone number and address, I moved to Peru IL about 7 months ago. I will have some more blanks up for sale soon on the website http://members.tripod.com/~edison_1/ Will also be putting up some Wax Amberols for sale too. _ Change the world with e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld
[Phono-L] recycled cds
I actually did this a long time ago, maybe 5 years ago. I cut them on my Fairchild 199 lathe. These did not sound too bad either, the surface noise was quite low even though I did not use a good cutter but rather a ground phono needle made in a triangle plow shape. I would like a nice neumann lathe with a Grampian or westrex cutting head someday. _ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008
[Phono-L] DD and other vertical discs
The Only other records that will play on a Diamond disc are 150 tpi Vertical cut Gennett records. I think though that these were designed for machines that use steel needles in the vertical position, these are thick blue label, and you can see that they have the same groove as a DD. I notice on these that the highs are clear just like Diamond Discs, so their is for certain a clarity issue in vertical over lateral. The Vertical recording also has superiority on a quantum level. Ever notice if you sit in front of your Damond Disc, or a cylinder recording with the machine well adjusted, that if you can close your eyes You can place the instruments in the studio, in a 3 dimensional plane, even though it is supposedly a MONO system. This will, however NOT be present if you play these records back electrially. When we trasferred the cylinder records to the sound track for the Bolden movie, We used the Edison C reproducer, 56" horn and 3 microphones, as opposed to an electrical pickup, 2 Schoeps and 1 Neumann U-87 were used. We did about 3 or 4 takes with different microphone positions, and the result was a surprising surround sound spread, _ More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008 From lhera...@bu.edu Fri Apr 11 14:37:57 2008 From: lhera...@bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Fri Apr 11 14:38:48 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? In-Reply-To: <00a401c89b4e$d8d4fad0$6500a...@your4dacd0ea75> References: <410-22008441020059...@earthlink.net><007401c89b46$78949ac0$90d42...@ad.bu.edu> <00a401c89b4e$d8d4fad0$6500a...@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <007e01c89c1c$4f72cc80$2f01a...@ronlherault> Right, Bob. I would not really advocate playing a Diamond Disc regularly on anything but a DD machine. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:07 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? Ron, What you said is correct; however, the head still had to be driven by the record groove. This would create an uneven lateral pressure on the record groove and probably affected sound quality as well as record wear. The ultona arm also had a weight mounted parallel to the arm that could be moved back and forth to adjust the weight of the reproducer. I'm assuming it was designed to approximate the weight of a diamond disc reproducer as the majority of vertical records that were played on it were probably Edison diamond disks. RMV - Original Message - From: "Ron L" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? >I don't have an Ultona head, I only have the simpler one sided one. The > actual Ultona, as I remember it has a needle bar that looks just like a DD > arrangement. I believe the head can swivel as well to mimic DD geometry. > > Ron L > > -Original Message- > From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Douglas Houston > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:01 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > > Ron: Of all people on this planet, I'm probably the least to comment > intelligently about playing DD's on anything but an Edison phonograph. > But, > since, for instance, the Brunswick Ultona head plays a DD, and the disc > carries the stylus across the record, it does so on an angle not done on > an Edison player. The modulaion of the groove is then read at an angle. > Since Edison's stylus reads the modulation on a 90 degree angle to the > disc, > does this degrade the quality (fidelity) of the recording, and would the > playing angle have a detrimental effect to the disc, for the same number > of > plays? I'm drawing from memory, because I haven't owned a Brunswick > phonograph for some years, but I seem to remember that the B'wick head > plays the DD at an angle, as any oher of the "twist around" boxes did. > And, > by the way, while the Brunswick phono I had was in very good shape, the DD > I > played on it sounded far poorer than it had sounded on a DD player I once > had. > > I'm assuming of course, that the stylus pressure of the Ultona (or any > other > head) would be similar to that of a DD player. We all know that Edison > frowned upon anything but his players to play his records, but was there > any > technical substance to this, or was it simply Madison Avenue hype? > >> [Original Message] >> From: Ron L >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Date: 4/10/2008 12:07:50 PM >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? >> >> Well, you can't use a DD reproducer on anything but a DD. You could
[Phono-L] America cylinder
I had a conversation today with Judith Gray head of the Federal Cylinder Project, and Jennifer Cutting transcriber of the folk music division of The library of Congress. We were talking about the playback of the Phonautograph plates. Anyway somwhere in the conversation, I had mentioned the authenticity of the Walt Whitman cylinder, and how most of the collector community was saying it was a fraud, and not real. They said it was authentic, and were not aware that it was in question. And I still came to an iconclusive myself because I myself made a cylinder copy of the poem and the result was not that much different than the supposed fake. I used a glass diaphragm and original blank . > _ How well do you know your celebrity gossip? http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A
[Phono-L] Phonogram Blanks
I have a total of 24 blanks for sale http://members.tripod.com/~edison_1 On the Store Page. These blanks are sold in 2 lots of 12 blanks. I have a policy of only selling what I make and I do not take additional orders. First 2 emails wins the blanks. This the only fair solution to come up with. I just joined Phono L and it seems to be the most active of any of the phonograph discussion groups. _ How well do you know your celebrity gossip? http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A From eug4...@bentongue.com Sun Mar 23 16:46:52 2008 From: eug4...@bentongue.com (eug4not) Date: Sun Mar 23 17:48:01 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison C-2 etc Message-ID: <47e6b3ac.17235.518...@eug4not.bentongue.com> Hi folks, For those interested in the Edison radios, a look at Section 2 of my Site: http://www.bentogue.com will probably be interesting: It includes, among other things, Minutes of the Radio Factory Design and Manufacturing meetings, Service info and a copy of the multipage ad in the "Talking Machine and Radio Weekly" magazine introducing the second radio line at the Atlantic City RMA Trade show in 1930. Enjoy, Ben Tongue From rich-m...@octoxol.com Sun Mar 23 19:00:32 2008 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Sun Mar 23 19:00:56 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Phonogram Blanks In-Reply-To: References: <20080323190016.9704b427...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> Message-ID: <47e70b40.6040...@octoxol.com> Thomas Edison wrote: > I have a total of 24 blanks for sale http://members.tripod.com/~edison_1 On > the Store Page. These blanks are sold in 2 lots of 12 blanks. I have a > policy of only selling what I make and I do not take additional orders. First > 2 emails wins the blanks. This the only fair solution to come up with. I just > joined Phono L and it seems to be the most active of any of the phonograph > discussion groups. > _ > How well do you know your celebrity gossip? > http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From kugl...@wmconnect.com Mon Mar 24 05:14:49 2008 From: kugl...@wmconnect.com (kugl...@wmconnect.com) Date: Mon Mar 24 05:15:10 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Craigslist "Prank" Message-ID: Thanks Loran for sharing this with us. It is another fine example of how the Internet is a fantastic source for those thugs out there. A couple of things here: - Someone did the unthinkable by printing the ad, joke or no joke. - This points out the stupidity of individuals that believe every thing they read on line. Super example of this gullibility are the crazy nonsense urban legends that so many believed for so long. Many people walked around for months with their hands over their kidneys! - We, who use the net for fun an or profit, are susceptible to being taken. In fact, those that do not even use a computer are susceptible to foul play because everyone's name, address, phone number, aerial shots of property, are within reach of all within a minute or two. Back to the story... I don't believe most of those that took to the free shopping free really believed the ad. I think that they just felt that they had a 'leg to stand on' when robbing this man! As always, keep the speed limit at 78.rpm that is! Brant From rvu...@comcast.net Mon Mar 24 05:27:41 2008 From: rvu...@comcast.net (Bob) Date: Mon Mar 24 05:27:57 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Columbia Long Throat Reproducer References: <000a01c88d00$cffadda0$6401a...@user52c8f93503> <001001c88d09$de59ac60$2f01a...@ronlherault> Message-ID: <004c01c88daa$75275d90$6500a...@your4dacd0ea75> Bruce Years ago I had a Columbia AH, first style. The analyzing reproducer has a pin on the back side which fits in a hole in the traveling arm to set the needle at the correct angle to playing records. I think it had a thumb screw to hold the needle in place. I don't think the Columbia name was behind the diaphragm. It may have had a patent date; I can't remember. This inportant thing is the pin stoset the angle for playing. Bob - Original Message - From: "Ron L'Herault" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Columbia Long Throat Reproducer >I can't comment about the printing behind the diaphragm but Baumbach notes > in his Columbia Phonograph Companion II that the earliest versions of the > Analyzing reproducer did have a thumb screw rather than the spring clamp. > > Ron L > > -Original Message- > From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] >
