Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
At 13:27 10/5/2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2001, Wez Furlong wrote: It's a notice for now; we can ramp up to a warning in 4.1 and nuke it in 4.2. I think takes too long then. 4.1 is not due for atleast 3-6 monthes I guess and 4.2 will take probably more than a year. I'd say, make it a warning in 4.0.8 and nuke it in 4.0.10 (or 4.1). What does that mean that it takes 'too long', though. Too long for what? I don't see any strong reason to nuke it at all, definitely not in the near future. Remember people, there are millions of users out there who don't appreciate us at all for every downwards-compatibility break that we make, and for a good reason. Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
On Thu, 10 May 2001, Zeev Suraski wrote: What does that mean that it takes 'too long', though. Too long for what? I don't see any strong reason to nuke it at all, definitely not in the near future. Remember people, there are millions of users out there who don't appreciate us at all for every downwards-compatibility break that we make, and for a good reason. Hmm..I haven't seen millions of emails about ANY downwards-compatibility break. I haven't seen ANY emails about them. So where do they send them? If you tell in e.g. NEWS file This version will break this and that why would anyone get pissed? They had been warned. Let them use the old versions then. --Jani -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
At 07:29 AM 5/10/2001 +0200, Jani Taskinen wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2001, Andi Gutmans wrote: At 04:03 PM 5/9/2001 -0400, Jon Parise wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:28:55PM +0200, Jani Taskinen wrote: Remove. Actually..should that mysql_db_query() be deprecated too? Starting 4.0.6 with warning? That sounds like a good move to me (provided it's just a warning for now). It probably shouldn't be completely removed until 4.1. I'd save the warning for 4.1. Really? And can you please give any reasons? And some reasoning for all these other stupid things that are dragged along from version to version and not started to be depreciated (with a warning..) ? Because a 0.0.1 version is a minor version and I don't think it is appropriate to change this kind of behavior in a minor version. There are things I would like to have changed too but I don't feel an x.x.1 version is the right time to do that. It's just my personal opinion. I respect yours too. Andi The crap about breaking someone's scripts is not any good reason. If people don't bother to read NEWS files, it's their own fault if their scripts break, IMNSHO. I'd like to see the 'break soon' movement to get stronger among the core developers. As there really are no alternatives for doing this. If you do it slowly, it will hurt more than if it's done very quickly. Like pulling a tooth.. Bloating a language with dozens of 'backwards compatibility aliases', with functions which are not supposed to be used anymore, etc. is worse thing than maybe breaking someone's scripts. There are a lot of people out there who are starting to use PHP at this very moment. If these depreciated things are not removed soon, the removing of them will bite more and more people when (if never?) it's done. And saying here that the new users don't know about these..well, go and read some of those PHP tutorials out there..many of them were written before PHP 4 was even released. As also many books. There are lot of code snippets to be downloaded out there which might also contain these depreciated aliases/functions/language constructs. --Jani p.s. Why it has to be always me who rants? Anyway, I will keep ranting until something is really DONE..and not just talked about..even if I start sounding like a broken record. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
At 01:39 PM 5/10/2001 +0200, Jani Taskinen wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2001, Zeev Suraski wrote: What does that mean that it takes 'too long', though. Too long for what? I don't see any strong reason to nuke it at all, definitely not in the near future. Remember people, there are millions of users out there who don't appreciate us at all for every downwards-compatibility break that we make, and for a good reason. Hmm..I haven't seen millions of emails about ANY downwards-compatibility break. I haven't seen ANY emails about them. So where do they send them? If you tell in e.g. NEWS file This version will break this and that why would anyone get pissed? They had been warned. Let them use the old versions then. I think what you are missing is that most PHP users aren't php-dev guys who dive into every little change in the NEWS file. I think many people expect to download a new minor version which includes additions fixes. In my opinion only bigger version number changes make people actually look closer as to what has changed. People here often forget that they aren't the average PHP user but the very advanced ones. Andi -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
*sigh* Nevermind. Let's keep bloating. --Jani On Thu, 10 May 2001, Zeev Suraski wrote: At 14:39 10/5/2001, Jani Taskinen wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2001, Zeev Suraski wrote: What does that mean that it takes 'too long', though. Too long for what? I don't see any strong reason to nuke it at all, definitely not in the near future. Remember people, there are millions of users out there who don't appreciate us at all for every downwards-compatibility break that we make, and for a good reason. Hmm..I haven't seen millions of emails about ANY downwards-compatibility break. I haven't seen ANY emails about them. So where do they send them? The big ones don't send emails. They simply don't upgrade, and they're very sour about being forced to stay behind, in terms of functionality, stability and security, because we break compatibility. I personally talked to dozens of those. If you tell in e.g. NEWS file This version will break this and that why would anyone get pissed? They had been warned. Let them use the old versions then. Just a simple example, there are dozens more - consider an ISP that has a few dozen different sites hosted on his server. Can you even begin to imagine the mess it is to upgrade his server to a version that breaks downwards compatibility? Zeev -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
Andi, I have the same opinion as you have, but it leads me to to conclusion Jani made: start deprecating the function now, and get rid of it in 4.1. This is my reasoning: if mysql_db_query() gives warning now, and is removed altogether in 4.1, the behavior you seem to pursue is achieved: a function is there for the whole minor version lifespan, and is removed right with the next major version. But, of course, you might have meant you wanted mysql_db_query to give warnings through the whole 4.1 period, and leave it out with 4.2. So, what did you mean exactly? At 16:59 10.5. 2001, Andi Gutmans wrote the following: -- At 07:29 AM 5/10/2001 +0200, Jani Taskinen wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2001, Andi Gutmans wrote: At 04:03 PM 5/9/2001 -0400, Jon Parise wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:28:55PM +0200, Jani Taskinen wrote: Remove. Actually..should that mysql_db_query() be deprecated too? Starting 4.0.6 with warning? That sounds like a good move to me (provided it's just a warning for now). It probably shouldn't be completely removed until 4.1. I'd save the warning for 4.1. Really? And can you please give any reasons? And some reasoning for all these other stupid things that are dragged along from version to version and not started to be depreciated (with a warning..) ? Because a 0.0.1 version is a minor version and I don't think it is appropriate to change this kind of behavior in a minor version. There are things I would like to have changed too but I don't feel an x.x.1 version is the right time to do that. It's just my personal opinion. I respect yours too. Andi The crap about breaking someone's scripts is not any good reason. If people don't bother to read NEWS files, it's their own fault if their scripts break, IMNSHO. I'd like to see the 'break soon' movement to get stronger among the core developers. As there really are no alternatives for doing this. If you do it slowly, it will hurt more than if it's done very quickly. Like pulling a tooth.. Bloating a language with dozens of 'backwards compatibility aliases', with functions which are not supposed to be used anymore, etc. is worse thing than maybe breaking someone's scripts. There are a lot of people out there who are starting to use PHP at this very moment. If these depreciated things are not removed soon, the removing of them will bite more and more people when (if never?) it's done. And saying here that the new users don't know about these..well, go and read some of those PHP tutorials out there..many of them were written before PHP 4 was even released. As also many books. There are lot of code snippets to be downloaded out there which might also contain these depreciated aliases/functions/language constructs. --Jani p.s. Why it has to be always me who rants? Anyway, I will keep ranting until something is really DONE..and not just talked about..even if I start sounding like a broken record. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --end of quote-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - And the eyes of them both were opened and they saw that their files were world readable and writable, so they chmoded 600 their files. - Book of Installation chapt 3 sec 7 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
I must agree with Andi here. I've seen people who obviously didn't read the migration notes when upgrading from 3.0.x to 4.0. Of course, that's their fault, but that's the way it works. At 17:25 10.5. 2001, Andi Gutmans wrote the following: -- At 01:39 PM 5/10/2001 +0200, Jani Taskinen wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2001, Zeev Suraski wrote: What does that mean that it takes 'too long', though. Too long for what? I don't see any strong reason to nuke it at all, definitely not in the near future. Remember people, there are millions of users out there who don't appreciate us at all for every downwards-compatibility break that we make, and for a good reason. Hmm..I haven't seen millions of emails about ANY downwards-compatibility break. I haven't seen ANY emails about them. So where do they send them? If you tell in e.g. NEWS file This version will break this and that why would anyone get pissed? They had been warned. Let them use the old versions then. I think what you are missing is that most PHP users aren't php-dev guys who dive into every little change in the NEWS file. I think many people expect to download a new minor version which includes additions fixes. In my opinion only bigger version number changes make people actually look closer as to what has changed. People here often forget that they aren't the average PHP user but the very advanced ones. Andi -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --end of quote-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - And the eyes of them both were opened and they saw that their files were world readable and writable, so they chmoded 600 their files. - Book of Installation chapt 3 sec 7 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
Hi All, Since Andi wants to RC1 4.0.6, I would like to know if you have an opinion about my recent patch for mysql_db_query() which allows you request an unbuffered rowset. Zeev suggested that using a different combination of function calls would be more optimal, and now that I have done some testing I have to agree with him. Should the patch stay in the code for 4.0.6 ? The reasons against were something along the lines of mysql_db_query only being there for backwards compatibility, and the extra argument could cause confusion by breaking the api rules for the mysql extension. The reasons for are that it could be handy for some. I'm impartial in the matter, as I no longer need the functionality. Should it stay or should it go? --Wez. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
I think it is best not to add this patch. Andi At 11:00 AM 5/9/2001 +0100, Wez Furlong wrote: Hi All, Since Andi wants to RC1 4.0.6, I would like to know if you have an opinion about my recent patch for mysql_db_query() which allows you request an unbuffered rowset. Zeev suggested that using a different combination of function calls would be more optimal, and now that I have done some testing I have to agree with him. Should the patch stay in the code for 4.0.6 ? The reasons against were something along the lines of mysql_db_query only being there for backwards compatibility, and the extra argument could cause confusion by breaking the api rules for the mysql extension. The reasons for are that it could be handy for some. I'm impartial in the matter, as I no longer need the functionality. Should it stay or should it go? --Wez. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
Remove. Actually..should that mysql_db_query() be deprecated too? Starting 4.0.6 with warning? --Jani On Wed, 9 May 2001, Wez Furlong wrote: Hi All, Since Andi wants to RC1 4.0.6, I would like to know if you have an opinion about my recent patch for mysql_db_query() which allows you request an unbuffered rowset. Zeev suggested that using a different combination of function calls would be more optimal, and now that I have done some testing I have to agree with him. Should the patch stay in the code for 4.0.6 ? The reasons against were something along the lines of mysql_db_query only being there for backwards compatibility, and the extra argument could cause confusion by breaking the api rules for the mysql extension. The reasons for are that it could be handy for some. I'm impartial in the matter, as I no longer need the functionality. Should it stay or should it go? --Wez. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:28:55PM +0200, Jani Taskinen wrote: Remove. Actually..should that mysql_db_query() be deprecated too? Starting 4.0.6 with warning? That sounds like a good move to me (provided it's just a warning for now). It probably shouldn't be completely removed until 4.1. -- Jon Parise ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) . Rochester Inst. of Technology http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/ : Computer Science House Member -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
At 04:03 PM 5/9/2001 -0400, Jon Parise wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:28:55PM +0200, Jani Taskinen wrote: Remove. Actually..should that mysql_db_query() be deprecated too? Starting 4.0.6 with warning? That sounds like a good move to me (provided it's just a warning for now). It probably shouldn't be completely removed until 4.1. I'd save the warning for 4.1. Andi -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] unbuffered mysql_db_query for 4.0.6?
On Thu, 10 May 2001, Andi Gutmans wrote: At 04:03 PM 5/9/2001 -0400, Jon Parise wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:28:55PM +0200, Jani Taskinen wrote: Remove. Actually..should that mysql_db_query() be deprecated too? Starting 4.0.6 with warning? That sounds like a good move to me (provided it's just a warning for now). It probably shouldn't be completely removed until 4.1. I'd save the warning for 4.1. Really? And can you please give any reasons? And some reasoning for all these other stupid things that are dragged along from version to version and not started to be depreciated (with a warning..) ? The crap about breaking someone's scripts is not any good reason. If people don't bother to read NEWS files, it's their own fault if their scripts break, IMNSHO. I'd like to see the 'break soon' movement to get stronger among the core developers. As there really are no alternatives for doing this. If you do it slowly, it will hurt more than if it's done very quickly. Like pulling a tooth.. Bloating a language with dozens of 'backwards compatibility aliases', with functions which are not supposed to be used anymore, etc. is worse thing than maybe breaking someone's scripts. There are a lot of people out there who are starting to use PHP at this very moment. If these depreciated things are not removed soon, the removing of them will bite more and more people when (if never?) it's done. And saying here that the new users don't know about these..well, go and read some of those PHP tutorials out there..many of them were written before PHP 4 was even released. As also many books. There are lot of code snippets to be downloaded out there which might also contain these depreciated aliases/functions/language constructs. --Jani p.s. Why it has to be always me who rants? Anyway, I will keep ranting until something is really DONE..and not just talked about..even if I start sounding like a broken record. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
