RE: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Hi, > As a PHP security advocate for the last few years, I can tell you that > Curt is absolutely correct. In fact, poor open source applications written > in PHP are the top reason why PHP is considered insecure by the > programming community at large. This is a myth that is very difficult to > dispel, and it shows how powerful perception can be. Myth it is for sure. We've passed 7 security audits in a row here. All PHP systems. -Dan Joseph -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
> Well i think in a way that getting programmers certified is one thing. I > also think that there might be a need for software certification. > Where it would validate that the standars have been fallowed, check the > quality of the code, check for security, check for proper docummentation > (comments, uml, user docs) > Some what like the ISO 9002 certification but more software oriented. It sounds like you're describing what I'd expect to see from someone with an IS / IT degree. -Ed -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
> -Original Message- > Of course, we tried very hard to make this one have a fair amount of value > but not just be difficult for the sake of being difficult. Why not offer multiple PHP certifications varied by topic and complexity? Will certs expire? =) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Chris Shiflett wrote: --- John Nichel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I understand where you're coming from, and I'm sure with your involvement in the project it will be top notch. I've always been impressed with your work, and am eagerly awaiting your O'Reilly book. ;) Thanks for the compliments. :-) I'm behind schedule on the book but am working very hard on it right now. It should hit shelves by the end of the year at least. In the meantime, I did write a lot of stuff down in a PDF: http://shiflett.org/php-security.pdf It's certainly not complete, since this was just the workbook for a 3 hour tutorial I gave at OSCON, but it has a few important topics. Plus, it's free. :-) Yeah, I grabbed that last week or so, and printed it out. Some of the items I've seen posted to this list (either by you, or that damn Holmes guy ;) But there were quite a few points that made be go back and check my code. -- By-Tor.com It's all about the Rush http://www.by-tor.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
--- John Nichel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I understand where you're coming from, and I'm sure with your > involvement in the project it will be top notch. I've always been > impressed with your work, and am eagerly awaiting your O'Reilly > book. ;) Thanks for the compliments. :-) I'm behind schedule on the book but am working very hard on it right now. It should hit shelves by the end of the year at least. In the meantime, I did write a lot of stuff down in a PDF: http://shiflett.org/php-security.pdf It's certainly not complete, since this was just the workbook for a 3 hour tutorial I gave at OSCON, but it has a few important topics. Plus, it's free. :-) > Those in management (non-tech) still like that piece of paper > though, so that will help all legitimacy to PHP in that area. The > geeks are going to be a tougher crowd to convince though. Yeah, and being a part of the geek crowd, I'm more interested in what my peers think. :-) Chris = Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Well i think in a way that getting programmers certified is one thing. I also think that there might be a need for software certification. Where it would validate that the standars have been fallowed, check the quality of the code, check for security, check for proper docummentation (comments, uml, user docs) Some what like the ISO 9002 certification but more software oriented. I think this would help php be more accepted by large compagnies, banks and gouvernements. It would also reassure the company that buy a software. The problem with this it would requiert alot of work! Certify programmers is just solving one part of the problem. Certifying software and business is the big piece and where money will be involed.! On Sat, 2004-08-28 at 11:57, Chris Shiflett wrote: > --- Yann Larrivee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I personally dont beleive in this. It is juste another way to make > > money ;) Every body in the indeustry should know that. > > Disclaimer: I assisted in the creation of the Zend PHP Certification. > > You're right - this is another way to make money. However, based on my > interpretation of what you're suggesting, I think you're wrong about where > Zend intends to make that money. You really think they're going to make a > significant amount of money from people paying to take this certification? > > Zend is a major company that will grow as PHP itself grows. This > certification helps PHP in the enterprise and make it seem like a more > legitimate option for companies looking to spend a lot of money on their > Web infrastructure. It also helps the entire PHP community, whether we get > certified or not. The more PHP is used, the more demand for PHP developers > there will be, the higher the salaries will be, etc. > > > PHP.net has nothing to do with it, execpt that some people from the > > php.net team help put it together. > > I assume you mean the PHP Group has nothing to do with it (php.net is a > domain name with no other significance), and you're right. Of course, Zend > is a much more appropriate entity for this. I'd prefer that the PHP Group > spend their time making PHP better and better. > > > Hostely, what kind of market value does the certification has? Go get > > sun certified at least it has some sort of history and value. > > You should think about that for a minute (apply some good common sense). > > Chris > > = > Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ > > PHP Security - O'Reilly > Coming Fall 2004 > HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams > http://httphandbook.org/ > PHP Community Site > http://phpcommunity.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Chris Shiflett wrote: --- John Nichel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm not big on certs myself. How many MCSE's have we seen who can't find the power switch? ;) This was a big concern for me when working with Zend on their certification. Especially in the open source communities, certifications are not considered to be very valuable, and MCSE is the top reason for this. Of course, we tried very hard to make this one have a fair amount of value but not just be difficult for the sake of being difficult. I think we did a pretty good job, but only time will tell. Regardless of whether we did a good job with it, the perception of certifications that comes from seeing clueless MCSEs everywhere is definitely an obstacle within the community. Outside of the community (where the PHBs reign), this certification is definitely a good thing for all of us. Chris I understand where you're coming from, and I'm sure with your involvement in the project it will be top notch. I've always been impressed with your work, and am eagerly awaiting your O'Reilly book. ;) There used to be a time when certifications actually meant something (back when I got A+ certified, it was still considered to be a good thing in the tech community). Microsoft and their cookie cutter 'engineers' have really hurt the whole value of a certification in the tech sector. Those in management (non-tech) still like that piece of paper though, so that will help all legitimacy to PHP in that area. The geeks are going to be a tougher crowd to convince though. -- By-Tor.com It's all about the Rush http://www.by-tor.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
--- John Nichel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not big on certs myself. How many MCSE's have we seen who can't > find the power switch? ;) This was a big concern for me when working with Zend on their certification. Especially in the open source communities, certifications are not considered to be very valuable, and MCSE is the top reason for this. Of course, we tried very hard to make this one have a fair amount of value but not just be difficult for the sake of being difficult. I think we did a pretty good job, but only time will tell. Regardless of whether we did a good job with it, the perception of certifications that comes from seeing clueless MCSEs everywhere is definitely an obstacle within the community. Outside of the community (where the PHBs reign), this certification is definitely a good thing for all of us. Chris = Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
--- Dan Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Its good that there's a PHP Cert, PHP/Zend should endorse one. http://www.zend.com/store/education/certification/zend-php-certification.php Chris = Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
--- Curt Zirzow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OSS doesn't make a person better programmer, you can easily write > an OSS app and still lack any knowledge of proper writting. As a PHP security advocate for the last few years, I can tell you that Curt is absolutely correct. In fact, poor open source applications written in PHP are the top reason why PHP is considered insecure by the programming community at large. This is a myth that is very difficult to dispel, and it shows how powerful perception can be. Chris = Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
--- John Nichel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Know what helps me get php jobs? A resume that details almost 6 > years of php programming. Disclaimer: I assisted in the creation of the Zend PHP Certification. This is a very good point. However, and I'm speaking from experience, how do you verify these types of statements when you're looking at more than a hundred resumes? Zend gives me a place online to verify whether someone is certified. With a pretty simple PHP script, I can automate this process. What I've done in the past is have a simple online test that people take when they apply, and this at least gives me some idea whether the applicant is worth bringing in for an interview (or calling for a phone interview). This has worked fairly well, but it's pretty time consuming for me, and it definitely has problems: It has to either be very long (or narrow in scope), I have no assurance that the applicant is the one taking the test, and the applicant can't use these test results anywhere else. Of course, certifications are only useful when the employer places the right amount of value in them. I've seen certifications discussed in several different communities over the past 10 years, and there always seem to be extremists on both sides - certifications are worthless or certifications will get you hired. A PHP certification only tells me that the applicant knows PHP pretty well at a fundamental level. Whether they can apply this knowledge, have the experience I'm looking for, have a personality that works well in my team, and questions like these are things I need to answer for myself in the hiring process. A certification does not replace the need to do any work to find a good employee. Chris = Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
--- Yann Larrivee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry another reply, there use to be the .geek php certification that > was annonced on php.net then was removed right off like 2 days > after) > > Was it cause of some pressure of a companie and group of people? > You tell me. OK, I will. No. > It was not really professional according to me, but you cant kill the > competition like this, well at least not in opensource world. I'd suggest that you not speak until you know what you're talking about. I had volunteered to assist with the DotGeek certifications, and I can tell you that no group of people other than the PHP community itself had anything to do with that effort being stopped. In fact, in the forum discussion surrounding it, most people were calling for Zend to create an official one. Chris = Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
--- Yann Larrivee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I personally dont beleive in this. It is juste another way to make > money ;) Every body in the indeustry should know that. Disclaimer: I assisted in the creation of the Zend PHP Certification. You're right - this is another way to make money. However, based on my interpretation of what you're suggesting, I think you're wrong about where Zend intends to make that money. You really think they're going to make a significant amount of money from people paying to take this certification? Zend is a major company that will grow as PHP itself grows. This certification helps PHP in the enterprise and make it seem like a more legitimate option for companies looking to spend a lot of money on their Web infrastructure. It also helps the entire PHP community, whether we get certified or not. The more PHP is used, the more demand for PHP developers there will be, the higher the salaries will be, etc. > PHP.net has nothing to do with it, execpt that some people from the > php.net team help put it together. I assume you mean the PHP Group has nothing to do with it (php.net is a domain name with no other significance), and you're right. Of course, Zend is a much more appropriate entity for this. I'd prefer that the PHP Group spend their time making PHP better and better. > Hostely, what kind of market value does the certification has? Go get > sun certified at least it has some sort of history and value. You should think about that for a minute (apply some good common sense). Chris = Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification OT
* Thus wrote John Nichel: > John Holmes wrote: > > >From: "Jay Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >>Probably Holmes. > > > > > >Not officially. Might look into it, though, but this is really just a > >hobby for me. :) > > > >I think that if you've been on the list for over a year, you should be > >certified automatically. heh... > > > >---John Holmes... > > WooHooI found posts from me dating back to 2002 on this list. Funny > though, I know I've been posting here since '99 or '00. Might have been > under a different email address. Ah, well. did you look in the php.version4 list? it was the interum list for the transition between php3 and php4 dated from May 1999 to Jun 2000, this list was started in Jan of 2000. http://zirzow.dyndns.org/html/mlists/ ps. the layout is totally under construction ;) Curt -- First, let me assure you that this is not one of those shady pyramid schemes you've been hearing about. No, sir. Our model is the trapezoid! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification OT
John Holmes wrote: From: "Jay Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Probably Holmes. Not officially. Might look into it, though, but this is really just a hobby for me. :) I think that if you've been on the list for over a year, you should be certified automatically. heh... ---John Holmes... WooHooI found posts from me dating back to 2002 on this list. Funny though, I know I've been posting here since '99 or '00. Might have been under a different email address. Ah, well. -- By-Tor.com It's all about the Rush http://www.by-tor.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification OT
[snip] > Probably Holmes. Not officially. Might look into it, though, but this is really just a hobby for me. :) I think that if you've been on the list for over a year, you should be certified automatically. heh... [/snip] I can see it now If you have replied 'RTFM" more than once a week, you might be certified. If you have used the word 'foo' in a sentence, you might be certified. If you think ASP sucks, you might be certified. If you Well, you get the idea... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification OT
Jay Blanchard wrote: [snip] ...certification stuff... [/snip] I am certified. So they tell me. And Nichel too. Probably Holmes. Defiinitely Wong, maybe wight. I don't think *THAT* 'cert' will help us in the job market. ;) -- By-Tor.com It's all about the Rush http://www.by-tor.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification OT
From: "Jay Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Probably Holmes. Not officially. Might look into it, though, but this is really just a hobby for me. :) I think that if you've been on the list for over a year, you should be certified automatically. heh... ---John Holmes... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
John Holmes wrote: From: "Dan Joseph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I just saw that: http://www.phparch.com/cert/ Hmm... there are no practice exams posted... See here: http://www.phparch.com/discuss/index.php/t/710/235/ ---John Holmes... Cool...I was wondering why we haven't seen him around lately. Congrats John! -- By-Tor.com It's all about the Rush http://www.by-tor.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Dan Joseph wrote: Hi, Know what helps me get php jobs? A resume that details almost 6 years of php programming. That's what most employers want. Certifications are a lot of times looked at as watered down, and over-issued. A lot of companies also use them as training pieces with their internal staff, meaning, they send them out for training, they get certified, and the employer sees the training was completed successfully. Its good that there's a PHP Cert, PHP/Zend should endorse one. -Dan Joseph I'm not big on certs myself. How many MCSE's have we seen who can't find the power switch? ;) But what I like about a cert for something like php is that more upper management will take it as a serious language. For some reason, that's their proof. -- By-Tor.com It's all about the Rush http://www.by-tor.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification OT
[snip] ...certification stuff... [/snip] I am certified. So they tell me. And Nichel too. Probably Holmes. Defiinitely Wong, maybe wight. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Hi, > Know what helps me get php jobs? A resume that details almost 6 years > of php programming. That's what most employers want. Certifications are a lot of times looked at as watered down, and over-issued. A lot of companies also use them as training pieces with their internal staff, meaning, they send them out for training, they get certified, and the employer sees the training was completed successfully. Its good that there's a PHP Cert, PHP/Zend should endorse one. -Dan Joseph -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
From: "Dan Joseph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I just saw that: http://www.phparch.com/cert/ Hmm... there are no practice exams posted... See here: http://www.phparch.com/discuss/index.php/t/710/235/ ---John Holmes... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Hmm... there are no practice exams posted... > I just saw that: http://www.phparch.com/cert/ -Dan Joseph -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Again I point out that this certification starts to make PHP valid in the commercial world. I completely agree with everyone that certs usually aren't worth the paper they are printed on when it comes to technical expertise but to a PHB or client who doesn't know any better except buzz words, a "certified php developer" sounds better. Even I(who would take a seasoned programmer over a certified guy anyday), would probably prefer to hire "certified php" developers because you know what??? It's an easier sell to potential clients. Granted, you have to hire one or two guys who actually know what their doing to keep the ship floating but nevertheless it's an easier sell if you have "certified php developers" on board. -Brent - Original Message - From: "Curt Zirzow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PHP List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification > * Thus wrote Yann Larrivee: > > For shure a beginner will benefit from this has it is problably give him > > a salary increase compared to the guy that is not certified (we all know > > that php developper are under paid) So this part is good. > > It will also eliminate some people out of the market for shure at some > > point. > > A certifcate most likely wont get you a salary increase, but it will > be favored in consideration of equal experience. > > > > > Yep emplyers will use it to evaluate people, but like i said i you want > > to get good exprience just work on a open source software if you don't > > have any work experience. > > OSS doesn't make a person better programmer, you can easily write > an OSS app and still lack any knowledge of proper writting. > > > > > Now has far has sun certification how it will help you get a php job. > > Well depends what kind of job you are looking for. A job where you only > > do php 24/7 or you do other stuff on the side (Java, C++, PHP, ...) > > I still dont see how sun has anything to do with anything, unless > your against OSS philosophy. > > > > > If so then beeing certified PHP just assure that you know PHP and some > > principles. > > Assuring someone that you have *some* is much better than the lack > of proof otherwise. > > > If you thake the sun certification it is been there for a far longer > > time ans since your job requires both in this case the sun certification > > means more. > > > > But certifications are just there to prove your level of understanding. > > So if I have a certificate of 'ed' that make it better than having > a sun certificat since 'ed' has been around longer than sun. And > should land me a much better PHP job. > > > Curt > -- > First, let me assure you that this is not one of those shady pyramid schemes > you've been hearing about. No, sir. Our model is the trapezoid! > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
* Thus wrote Yann Larrivee: > For shure a beginner will benefit from this has it is problably give him > a salary increase compared to the guy that is not certified (we all know > that php developper are under paid) So this part is good. > It will also eliminate some people out of the market for shure at some > point. A certifcate most likely wont get you a salary increase, but it will be favored in consideration of equal experience. > > Yep emplyers will use it to evaluate people, but like i said i you want > to get good exprience just work on a open source software if you don't > have any work experience. OSS doesn't make a person better programmer, you can easily write an OSS app and still lack any knowledge of proper writting. > > Now has far has sun certification how it will help you get a php job. > Well depends what kind of job you are looking for. A job where you only > do php 24/7 or you do other stuff on the side (Java, C++, PHP, ...) I still dont see how sun has anything to do with anything, unless your against OSS philosophy. > > If so then beeing certified PHP just assure that you know PHP and some > principles. Assuring someone that you have *some* is much better than the lack of proof otherwise. > If you thake the sun certification it is been there for a far longer > time ans since your job requires both in this case the sun certification > means more. > > But certifications are just there to prove your level of understanding. So if I have a certificate of 'ed' that make it better than having a sun certificat since 'ed' has been around longer than sun. And should land me a much better PHP job. Curt -- First, let me assure you that this is not one of those shady pyramid schemes you've been hearing about. No, sir. Our model is the trapezoid! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Exactly it think that experience is probably the only valuable thing there is. For shure a beginner will benefit from this has it is problably give him a salary increase compared to the guy that is not certified (we all know that php developper are under paid) So this part is good. It will also eliminate some people out of the market for shure at some point. Yep emplyers will use it to evaluate people, but like i said i you want to get good exprience just work on a open source software if you don't have any work experience. Now has far has sun certification how it will help you get a php job. Well depends what kind of job you are looking for. A job where you only do php 24/7 or you do other stuff on the side (Java, C++, PHP, ...) If so then beeing certified PHP just assure that you know PHP and some principles. If you thake the sun certification it is been there for a far longer time ans since your job requires both in this case the sun certification means more. But certifications are just there to prove your level of understanding. Yann On Fri, 2004-08-27 at 00:23, John Nichel wrote: > John Holmes wrote: > > Yann Larrivee wrote: > > > >> If you wanna show if you can programme well, sun would do the job. > > > > > > I burn easily. HTF is a Sun certification going to help you get a PHP > > job? Like Curt said, take the practice test and then decide. > > > > Know what helps me get php jobs? A resume that details almost 6 years > of php programming. > > That and the fact that I will work for hardware. ;) > > -- > By-Tor.com > It's all about the Rush > http://www.by-tor.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:52:12 -0700, Ed Lazor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The site has a spot where you can search for locations in your area that > give the test. Buy a voucher and then call the nearest place giving the > test and schedule to take it. I was thinking there was (hopefully free) practice exams to take -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
The site has a spot where you can search for locations in your area that give the test. Buy a voucher and then call the nearest place giving the test and schedule to take it. > -Original Message- > From: Matt M. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:30 PM > To: Curt Zirzow > Cc: PHP General > Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification > > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 03:18:31 +, Curt Zirzow > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > go and take the practice test and find out. > > It is late and I am probably just missing it, but how do you take the > practice exams? Do you have to buy something before you can take > them? > > Anyone know? > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 03:18:31 +, Curt Zirzow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > go and take the practice test and find out. It is late and I am probably just missing it, but how do you take the practice exams? Do you have to buy something before you can take them? Anyone know? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
John Holmes wrote: Yann Larrivee wrote: If you wanna show if you can programme well, sun would do the job. I burn easily. HTF is a Sun certification going to help you get a PHP job? Like Curt said, take the practice test and then decide. Know what helps me get php jobs? A resume that details almost 6 years of php programming. That and the fact that I will work for hardware. ;) -- By-Tor.com It's all about the Rush http://www.by-tor.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
A PHP certification can help to show a non programmer (hint: your future boss) that you know wtf you are doing. I think it's about time PHP had some kind of certification program to show the rest of the world that PHP is a serious language. There are many employers out there who think that you have to know Java, C#, ASP, or some other gay .NET crap to accomplish something. It's like a university degree - it shows initiative. Go OSS! I'm going to do it. I'm all over it. ...like stink on yann! > If you wanna show if you can programme well, sun would do the job. WTF? I can prograe! Jim Grill - Original Message - From: "Yann Larrivee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "John Holmes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "PHP General" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification > What is a PHP certification anyway. > > TO see if you know the modules/functions ? Or see if you know how to > programme well. > > If you wanna show if you can programme well, sun would do the job. > > Yann > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Yann Larrivee wrote: If you wanna show if you can programme well, sun would do the job. I burn easily. HTF is a Sun certification going to help you get a PHP job? Like Curt said, take the practice test and then decide. -- ---John Holmes... Amazon Wishlist: www.amazon.com/o/registry/3BEXC84AB3A5E/ php|architect: The Magazine for PHP Professionals – www.phparch.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
* Thus wrote Yann Larrivee: > What is a PHP certification anyway. go and take the practice test and find out. > > TO see if you know the modules/functions ? Or see if you know how to > programme well. Just hope they dont run it through a spel checker. > > If you wanna show if you can programme well, sun would do the job. well.. that is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen said here. Curt -- First, let me assure you that this is not one of those shady pyramid schemes you've been hearing about. No, sir. Our model is the trapezoid! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
* Thus wrote Yann Larrivee: > On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 18:07, Kevin Waterson wrote: > > This one time, at band camp, "Marcos Thiago M. Fabis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I just saw that: http://www.phparch.com/cert/ > > > > What do they mean by 'official' certification? > > Is this sanctioned by php.net? > > > > Not at all. > I personally dont beleive in this. It is juste another way to make money > ;) Every body in the indeustry should know that. Anything anyone does is for some sort of financial gain, even if its for free. > > Hostely, what kind of market value does the certification has? Go get > sun certified at least it has some sort of history and value. It has a lot of market value. Having a sun certification and trying to get a job writing PHP on a BSD box, isn't going to have any value whats so ever. By having a certification of some sort, it helps another person know that: 1. The person has solid knowledge of what a seasoned community considers standard. 2. That the person has the commitment to go and understand these standards and compare himself with them to ensure he is doing things properly. 3. Let onself know where he/she stands within the standards. These characteristics are good to have when trying to land a job of any sort, and can help you get in the door for that crucial interview. php|a is a well respected publishing company and have the people behind it to back it up. Curt -- First, let me assure you that this is not one of those shady pyramid schemes you've been hearing about. No, sir. Our model is the trapezoid! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
What is a PHP certification anyway. TO see if you know the modules/functions ? Or see if you know how to programme well. If you wanna show if you can programme well, sun would do the job. Yann -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
I personally believe this is a great thing to have out there, especially one which has commercial backing from one of the central php development companies out there. It starts to validate PHP as an trusted, enterprise language which PHB's can start to turn to for development solutions. It can only help the PHP community, not hurt it. -Brent - Original Message - From: "John Holmes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Yann Larrivee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "PHP General" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification > Yann Larrivee wrote: > > > Hostely, what kind of market value does the certification has? Go get > > sun certified at least it has some sort of history and value. > > Hmmm... I guess that would depend if you're trying to get a job with Sun > or with PHP, wouldn't it?? > > Just like any other certification, this could give employers a base idea > of what you should be capable of. The actual interview and your > portfolio will seal the deal, eh? > > -- > > ---John Holmes... > > Amazon Wishlist: www.amazon.com/o/registry/3BEXC84AB3A5E/ > > php|architect: The Magazine for PHP Professionals – www.phparch.com > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Yann Larrivee wrote: Hostely, what kind of market value does the certification has? Go get sun certified at least it has some sort of history and value. Hmmm... I guess that would depend if you're trying to get a job with Sun or with PHP, wouldn't it?? Just like any other certification, this could give employers a base idea of what you should be capable of. The actual interview and your portfolio will seal the deal, eh? -- ---John Holmes... Amazon Wishlist: www.amazon.com/o/registry/3BEXC84AB3A5E/ php|architect: The Magazine for PHP Professionals – www.phparch.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
Sorry another reply, there use to be the .geek php certification that was annonced on php.net then was removed right off like 2 days after) Was it cause of some pressure of a companie and group of people ? You tell me. It was not really professional according to me, but you cant kill the competition like this , well at least not in opensource world. Yann -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 18:07, Kevin Waterson wrote: > This one time, at band camp, "Marcos Thiago M. Fabis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I just saw that: http://www.phparch.com/cert/ > > What do they mean by 'official' certification? > Is this sanctioned by php.net? > Not at all. I personally dont beleive in this. It is juste another way to make money ;) Every body in the indeustry should know that. PHP.net has nothing to do with it, execpt that some people from the php.net team help put it together. Hostely, what kind of market value does the certification has? Go get sun certified at least it has some sort of history and value. Yann > Kevin > - > __ > (_ \ > _) ) > | / / _ ) / _ | / ___) / _ ) > | | ( (/ / ( ( | |( (___ ( (/ / > |_| \) \_||_| \) \) > Kevin Waterson > Port Macquarie, Australia -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Oficial Certification
This one time, at band camp, "Marcos Thiago M. Fabis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just saw that: http://www.phparch.com/cert/ What do they mean by 'official' certification? Is this sanctioned by php.net? Kevin - __ (_ \ _) ) | / / _ ) / _ | / ___) / _ ) | | ( (/ / ( ( | |( (___ ( (/ / |_| \) \_||_| \) \) Kevin Waterson Port Macquarie, Australia -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
