Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Robert Cummings]

This was a private "REPLY" to you. So you're just an asshole now.

Cheers,
Rob.


On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 23:16, John Nichel wrote:
> Robert Cummings wrote:
> > On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 21:07, John Nichel wrote:
> > 
> >>I suggested the same thing...albeit not as nice as you ;) and got a, 
> >>"Kiss my ass" response.
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > WOW, 2 posts in about 2 hours, both 24 hours after the thread died.
> > Seems like you're the only one keeping the thread going. I'm not sure
> > how to explain to you, how ridiculous you seem.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Rob.
> 
> Don't look now Rob, but someone else just posted to the threadand 
> not off of either of my posts.  I really don't need you to explain 
> anything to me, cause if I want an example on 'ridiculous', I'll reread 
> your little flame warover top-posting vs bottom-posting no less.  I 
> will do something though, that you claimed you were going to do '24 
> hours' ago, and not post anymore to this topic.
> 
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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[John Nichel]

Robert Cummings wrote:
On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 21:07, John Nichel wrote:

I suggested the same thing...albeit not as nice as you ;) and got a, 
"Kiss my ass" response.



WOW, 2 posts in about 2 hours, both 24 hours after the thread died.
Seems like you're the only one keeping the thread going. I'm not sure
how to explain to you, how ridiculous you seem.
Cheers,
Rob.
Don't look now Rob, but someone else just posted to the threadand 
not off of either of my posts.  I really don't need you to explain 
anything to me, cause if I want an example on 'ridiculous', I'll reread 
your little flame warover top-posting vs bottom-posting no less.  I 
will do something though, that you claimed you were going to do '24 
hours' ago, and not post anymore to this topic.

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RE: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Javier Muniz]

Agreed, and the flexibility of smarty allows for quite a bit more
functionality for the template developer... Anyone seriously considering
template engines should take a hard look at Smarty.

Just my $0.02.

Oh, and if you don't like top-posting, ignore this msg, as I will
undoubtedly ignore your response (actually I won't even have the chance, I
have at this point configured my anti-spam software to automatically delete
msgs with "top post" or "bottom post" in them, and suggest that other users
of this list do the same).

-Javier

-Original Message-
From: Chris Hubbard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:13 PM
To: Bas; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!


Bas,
Looks interesting.  But why would I use bhtml when I've got Smarty and
10,000 other templating systems to choose from? I'm not interested in the
vauge promises of speed.  I'm only interested in systems that make it easier
for me to code.  Smarty makes it easier for me to code.  How does bhtml help
me?

And ditto on the comments about posting code.  Please find a way to make it
readable. Chris

-Original Message-
From: Bas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!


Okay, i am happy that BTML 2.0 is released(finally)

It is also known as BTML Template Edition.

The 3 files(the parser, a simple template and a test BTML-file)

btmltpl.php
---
' => $title, '<%text%>' => $text, '<%images%>' =>
$images, '<%links%>' => $links);

$html = strtr($tpldata, $trans);

return $html;

}

function parseTags($file) {

/* readfile... here */

$filedata = file_get_contents($file);

$tag_match =("!\s*(.*?)\s*!is");

preg_match_all($tag_match, $filedata, $matches);

for ($i=0; $i< count($matches[0]); $i++) {

$tagname = $matches[1][$i];

$tag['tagname'] = $tagname;

$tag['value'] = $matches[2][$i];

$tags[] = $tag;

}

return $tags;

}

include_once "template.php";

$filename = $_GET['name'];

$bttags = parseTags($filename);

// echo "";

foreach($bttags as $tag) {

switch($tag['tagname']) {

case 'title':

$title = $tag['value'];

// echo "" . $tag['value'] . "";

// echo "" . $tag['value'] . "";

break;

case 'heading':

$completetext .= "" . $tag['value'] . "";

// echo "" . $tag['value'] . "";

break;

case 'image':

if (!empty($tag['value'])) {

// echo "";

$images .= "";

}

break;

case 'text':

// echo nl2br($tag['value']);

$completetext .= nl2br($tag['value']);

break;

case 'nl':

// echo "\n";

$completetext .= "";

break;

case 'template':

$templatefile = $tag['value'];

break;

case 'link':

$links .= "" . $tag['value'] . ""

}

}



// echo "";

if (empty($templatefile)) {

echo tpl2html($title, $images, $completetext);

} else {

echo tpl2html($title, $images, $completetext, $templatefile);

}

?>

---

simple.tpl

---



<%title%>



<%title%>



<%text%>

Images: 

<%images%>





---

And test.btm

---



Welcome to BTML page v1!





Welcome to my BTML page!!! This is an experimentally version of HTML!!!

Bye!!!









Bye



---



Hope that you like it and please tell me wat you think of it,





Bas

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[John Nichel]

Ryan A wrote:
Guys,

I dont mean to get into your very heartfelt flaming / arguement but can you
take this offlist please?
Cheers,
-Ryan
I suggested the same thing...albeit not as nice as you ;) and got a, 
"Kiss my ass" response.

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[DvDmanDT]

Well, if the historians want to read it later, that's their problem... :D
J/k, but think about all mess they have to go through when reading the posts
with comments in the middle of the mails... In my opinion it's best to read
the entire thread anyway, cause ppl trim posts...

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"Jason Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
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> On Saturday 08 November 2003 03:35, Robert Cummings wrote:
> > I disagree.
>
> Yes, I think you disagreed with me last time as well :-)
>
> And if you keep doing that I might to forced to start using InterJinn!
>
> > I usually trim replies regardless of whether I top or bottom
> > post.
>
> And kudos to you for that, but ...
>
> > And while I didn't have to scroll to read this email, I often have
> > to scroll for longer emails when it is bottom posted. Which seems kinda
> > silly to me since I've already read the thread.
>
> ... but the mailing list is not about *you*. Who cares if *you* have
already
> read it because *you* was following the thread? Think about the future
> historians who will be reading these archives - and the incoherent mess
> they'll have to trawl through because of top-posting!
>
> -- 
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> Open Source Software Systems Integrators
> * Web Design & Hosting * Internet & Intranet Applications Development *
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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Robert Cummings]

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 14:54, Jason Wong wrote:
> On Saturday 08 November 2003 03:35, Robert Cummings wrote:
> > I disagree. 
> 
> Yes, I think you disagreed with me last time as well :-)

Great to be consistent.

> And if you keep doing that I might to forced to start using InterJinn!

I think the InterJinn references grow tiresome since they have little to
do with any debate or argument at hand.

> ... but the mailing list is not about *you*. Who cares if *you* have already 
> read it because *you* was following the thread? Think about the future 
> historians who will be reading these archives - and the incoherent mess 
> they'll have to trawl through because of top-posting!

understandably it is not about me, understandably it is about everyone.
Now lemme think on this, I'm not the only top poster, thus the involved
universe of top posters already extends beyond me. I guess you don't
believe in evolving systems. I'm sure people told Columbus that the
world wasn't about him and that he should stop arguing that the world
was round. I guess by this logic, we wouldn't advance because nobody
would dare to challenge the masses *pt*. Buncha' sheep I tell ya.

Cheers,
Rob.
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RE: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Robert Cummings]

Actually researhc seems to be showing that our brains process visual
information in parallel versus serial. Thus your assertion seems
somewhat flawed. And I'm sure you understood my intentional typo of
"researhc" since your brain more than likely read it in all at once
rather than as a series of characters.

Cheers,
Rob.

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 14:53, Chris W. Parker wrote:
>
> The point still stands that our brains are not trained to read that way.
> Any publication in English is not written like that, where the new
> information comes before the old information. Old information always
> comes first.
> 
> Sure you can retrain your brain to read the wrong way, but why go to the
> trouble?

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RE: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Chris W. Parker]

Robert Cummings 
on Friday, November 07, 2003 11:35 AM said:

> And while I didn't have to scroll to read this email, I
> often have to scroll for longer emails when it is bottom posted.
> Which seems kinda silly to me since I've already read the thread.

The only reason for that is because the person doing the replying did
not trim the previous email enough. MOST of the time when I see bottom
posting the person has left the entire email intact including the
persons sig. In those cases I'd rather have the post at the top because
it makes the bottom posting practically worthless.

> A. dog
>> Q. What is your favourite animal?
>>> A. blue
 Q. What is your favourite colour?
> 
> Looks pretty darned obvious to me. Amazing how some people use out of
> context examples to bolster their arguments. It's like watching the
> news these days.

It's not "pretty darned obvious" everyone because the way a normal
person off the street would read that is probably like this (in both of
my examples you have to assume that the person doing the reading knows
what >, >>, >>>, and  means):

1. There eyes will read "A. dog"
2. Then they will realize that that sentence is in reply to something
else.
3. Then they will read the next line "Q. What is your favourite
animal?".
4. Then they will realize that that sentence is in reply to something
else.
5. Then they will read "A. blue"
6. Then they will realize that that sentence is in reply to something
else.
7. Then they will read "Q. What is your favourite colour?"

If it was done the correct way:

 Q. What is your favourite colour?
>>> A. blue
>> Q. What is your favourite animal?
> A. dog

a person would read it like the following:

1. Read the first line "Q. What is your favourite colour?"
2. Read the next line knowing it's in reply to the first (no realization
is involved because it's immediately obvious).
3. Read the next line knowing it's in reply to the first (no realization
is involved because it's immediately obvious).
4. Read the next line knowing it's in reply to the first (no realization
is involved because it's immediately obvious).


So it's still the same thing even though your example is a little more
accurate for the context of mailing lists.

The point still stands that our brains are not trained to read that way.
Any publication in English is not written like that, where the new
information comes before the old information. Old information always
comes first.

Sure you can retrain your brain to read the wrong way, but why go to the
trouble?



Chris.
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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Jason Wong]

On Saturday 08 November 2003 03:35, Robert Cummings wrote:
> I disagree. 

Yes, I think you disagreed with me last time as well :-)

And if you keep doing that I might to forced to start using InterJinn!

> I usually trim replies regardless of whether I top or bottom
> post. 

And kudos to you for that, but ...

> And while I didn't have to scroll to read this email, I often have
> to scroll for longer emails when it is bottom posted. Which seems kinda
> silly to me since I've already read the thread.

... but the mailing list is not about *you*. Who cares if *you* have already 
read it because *you* was following the thread? Think about the future 
historians who will be reading these archives - and the incoherent mess 
they'll have to trawl through because of top-posting!

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* Web Design & Hosting * Internet & Intranet Applications Development *
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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Robert Cummings]

I disagree. I usually trim replies regardless of whether I top or bottom
post. And while I didn't have to scroll to read this email, I often have
to scroll for longer emails when it is bottom posted. Which seems kinda
silly to me since I've already read the thread.

While I'm at it someone did something like the following earlier:

A. dog
Q. What is your favourite animal?
A. blue
Q. What is your favourite colour?

Now what they failed to do was show where previous posts had been quoted
which REALLY makes a difference in perception. Allow me to examplify:

A. dog
> Q. What is your favourite animal?
> > A. blue
> > > Q. What is your favourite colour?

Looks pretty darned obvious to me. Amazing how some people use out of
context examples to bolster their arguments. It's like watching the news
these days.

Cheers,
Rob.

On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 14:20, Jason Wong wrote:
> 
> I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the very act of top-posting 
> encourages people not to trim posts. They just hit reply, stick their 
> comments on top and post it off leaving sh*tload of crap on the end.
> 
> Like this post, unless you're reading this on a Blackberry then I doubt you'll 
> have much scrolling to do.
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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Jason Wong]

On Friday 07 November 2003 21:12, DvDmanDT wrote:
> Oh.. I'm personally trying to avoid not top-posting, cause I think it's
> nicer when ppl place the message at the top where I can read it instantly
> without scrolling down.. :s So why bottompost?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the very act of top-posting 
encourages people not to trim posts. They just hit reply, stick their 
comments on top and post it off leaving sh*tload of crap on the end.

Like this post, unless you're reading this on a Blackberry then I doubt you'll 
have much scrolling to do.

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Burhan Khalid]

Marek Kilimajer wrote:

Jay Blanchard wrote:

[snip]
snobs jump in
[/snip]
What is funny about that is that it is those snobs who folks ask their
questions to. It is those snobs who solve problems for others. It is
those snobs who have learned and experienced so that others may benefit.
Hi, while we are at it, is it possible to fix your mail client to 
include References or In-Reply-To header? Broken threading is more 
annoying to me that (top|bottom)-posting. ;)
Along the same topic, does anyone know what magic header tells Mozilla 
mail to add the Newsgroup: header? I've been trying to figure this out 
for some time now.

On some mailing lists, it shows up on (seemingly) random emails.

Free Tip :

  Want to avoid "array index undefined" Notices? Verify your indexes 
before you use the array in a statement. My favorite method is :

  $var = isset($foo['index']) ? $foo['index'] : NULL;

  Practical example :

  $username = isset($_POST['username']) ? $_POST['username'] : NULL;

  Other ways to do the same :

  if(isset($_POST['username'])) {
 $username = $_POST['username'];
  } else { $username = NULL; }
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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Ryan A]

Guys,

I dont mean to get into your very heartfelt flaming / arguement but can you
take this offlist please?

Cheers,
-Ryan

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Marek Kilimajer]

Jay Blanchard wrote:

[snip]
snobs jump in
[/snip]
What is funny about that is that it is those snobs who folks ask their
questions to. It is those snobs who solve problems for others. It is
those snobs who have learned and experienced so that others may benefit.
Hi, while we are at it, is it possible to fix your mail client to 
include References or In-Reply-To header? Broken threading is more 
annoying to me that (top|bottom)-posting. ;)

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RE: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Jay Blanchard]

[snip]
snobs jump in
[/snip]

What is funny about that is that it is those snobs who folks ask their
questions to. It is those snobs who solve problems for others. It is
those snobs who have learned and experienced so that others may benefit.

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Eric Wood]

I mainly bottom-post, but sometimes top-post.  I love it when snobs jump in
and add no meaningful information to the technical subject of the thread
(like I'm doing now) but instead get on their soap-box about "you must
always bottom post, blah, blah, blah, it messes up my way of reading."

And for the heck of it, I've going to top *and* bottom post

DvDmanDT wrote:
> Oh.. I'm personally trying to avoid not top-posting, cause I think
> it's nicer when ppl place the message at the top where I can read it
> instantly without scrolling down.. :s So why bottompost?

That said, I think bottom posting (with proper stripping of the original
message) is overall the best way to go.

-eric wood

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RE: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Jay Blanchard]

[snip]
Well, that's a bit overdue... I don't reverse the order of my posts...
But
anyway... I guess not everyone (you for example) follow threads like I
do...
[/snip]

If you top post you ARE reversing the order of the post. And everyone
does not follow threads the way that you do. Top posting has been a
concern on usenet and mailing lists since before you typed your first
line of code. The newbie list mentions it.

BTW PHP rocks!  

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[DvDmanDT]

Well, that's a bit overdue... I don't reverse the order of my posts... But
anyway... I guess not everyone (you for example) follow threads like I do...

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"Jay Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on mailing lists?

[snip]
Oh.. I'm personally trying to avoid not top-posting, cause I think it's
nicer when ppl place the message at the top where I can read it
instantly
without scrolling down.. :s So why bottompost?
[/snip]

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RE: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Jay Blanchard]

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on mailing lists?

[snip]
Oh.. I'm personally trying to avoid not top-posting, cause I think it's
nicer when ppl place the message at the top where I can read it
instantly
without scrolling down.. :s So why bottompost?
[/snip]

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[DvDmanDT]

Oh.. I'm personally trying to avoid not top-posting, cause I think it's
nicer when ppl place the message at the top where I can read it instantly
without scrolling down.. :s So why bottompost?

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"Burhan Khalid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Pablo Gosse wrote:
>
> > Hi Burhan.  I have a quick question about what you write below that I
> > don't want to post to the whole list?
> >
> > What is it meant to "top post"?  I've mainly been a lurker in forums
> > such as phpbuilder and devshed until recently, but this list is proving
> > to be a much better resource than those two.
> >
> > Can you please let me know what it means to "top post" when you have a
> > moment?
> >
>
> Top post means posting on top of the text (what you did). Always paste
> below the text that you are replying to (what I did).
>
> -- 
> Burhan Khalid
> phplist[at]meidomus[dot]com
> http://www.meidomus.com
> ---
> "Documentation is like sex: when it is good,
>   it is very, very good; and when it is bad,
>   it is better than nothing."

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Eugene Lee]

On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 01:55:45PM +0300, Burhan Khalid wrote:
: 
: Pablo Gosse wrote:
: >
: >What is it meant to "top post"?  I've mainly been a lurker in forums
: >such as phpbuilder and devshed until recently, but this list is
: >proving to be a much better resource than those two.
: 
: Top post means posting on top of the text (what you did). Always paste 
: below the text that you are replying to (what I did).

http://www.faqs.org/docs/jargon/T/top-post.html

http://www.faqs.org/docs/jargon/B/bottom-post.html

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Burhan Khalid]

Pablo Gosse wrote:

Hi Burhan.  I have a quick question about what you write below that I
don't want to post to the whole list?
What is it meant to "top post"?  I've mainly been a lurker in forums
such as phpbuilder and devshed until recently, but this list is proving
to be a much better resource than those two.
Can you please let me know what it means to "top post" when you have a
moment?
Top post means posting on top of the text (what you did). Always paste 
below the text that you are replying to (what I did).

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Burhan Khalid
phplist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com
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 it is very, very good; and when it is bad,
 it is better than nothing."
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RE: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Chris Hubbard]

Bas,
Looks interesting.  But why would I use bhtml when I've got Smarty and
10,000 other templating systems to choose from?
I'm not interested in the vauge promises of speed.  I'm only interested in
systems that make it easier for me to code.  Smarty makes it easier for me
to code.  How does bhtml help me?

And ditto on the comments about posting code.  Please find a way to make it
readable.
Chris

-Original Message-
From: Bas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!


Okay, i am happy that BTML 2.0 is released(finally)

It is also known as BTML Template Edition.

The 3 files(the parser, a simple template and a test BTML-file)

btmltpl.php
---
' => $title, '<%text%>' => $text, '<%images%>' =>
$images, '<%links%>' => $links);

$html = strtr($tpldata, $trans);

return $html;

}

function parseTags($file) {

/* readfile... here */

$filedata = file_get_contents($file);

$tag_match =("!\s*(.*?)\s*!is");

preg_match_all($tag_match, $filedata, $matches);

for ($i=0; $i< count($matches[0]); $i++) {

$tagname = $matches[1][$i];

$tag['tagname'] = $tagname;

$tag['value'] = $matches[2][$i];

$tags[] = $tag;

}

return $tags;

}

include_once "template.php";

$filename = $_GET['name'];

$bttags = parseTags($filename);

// echo "";

foreach($bttags as $tag) {

switch($tag['tagname']) {

case 'title':

$title = $tag['value'];

// echo "" . $tag['value'] . "";

// echo "" . $tag['value'] . "";

break;

case 'heading':

$completetext .= "" . $tag['value'] . "";

// echo "" . $tag['value'] . "";

break;

case 'image':

if (!empty($tag['value'])) {

// echo "";

$images .= "";

}

break;

case 'text':

// echo nl2br($tag['value']);

$completetext .= nl2br($tag['value']);

break;

case 'nl':

// echo "\n";

$completetext .= "";

break;

case 'template':

$templatefile = $tag['value'];

break;

case 'link':

$links .= "" . $tag['value'] . ""

}

}



// echo "";

if (empty($templatefile)) {

echo tpl2html($title, $images, $completetext);

} else {

echo tpl2html($title, $images, $completetext, $templatefile);

}

?>

---

simple.tpl

---



<%title%>



<%title%>



<%text%>

Images: 

<%images%>





---

And test.btm

---



Welcome to BTML page v1!





Welcome to my BTML page!!! This is an experimentally version of HTML!!!

Bye!!!









Bye



---



Hope that you like it and please tell me wat you think of it,





Bas

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Re: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Burhan Khalid]

Chris W. Parker wrote:

Bas 
on Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:21 AM said:

Okay, i am happy that BTML 2.0 is released(finally)


You need to get a website and post a link to the site instead of posting
a giant email with code that's not even indented and probably wrapped in
some places.
Agree with CP here -- please don't post large code get some webspace, or 
use www.pastebin.com; please don't send attachments; please don't send 
your messages priority, request return reciepts; please turn of vacation 
auto-responders, please use plain text, and above all else, please don't 
top post.

(where's that weekly newbie email?)

--
Burhan Khalid
phplist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com
---
"Documentation is like sex: when it is good,
 it is very, very good; and when it is bad,
 it is better than nothing."
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RE: [PHP] BTML 2.0 released!!!

[Chris W. Parker]

Bas 
on Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:21 AM said:

> Okay, i am happy that BTML 2.0 is released(finally)

You need to get a website and post a link to the site instead of posting
a giant email with code that's not even indented and probably wrapped in
some places.



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