Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Alexander Burger]

Hi Arie,

>  - don't limit the page to use 60% of the browser window, it's a waste
> > of real-estate (too much whitespace on left/right). That technique
> > should be reserved for blogs/articles.
> >
> 
> ​Well, that choice was made long ago by Alexander Burger himself. Nothing
> has changed.​

Well, just for the records, that was actually not me but Erik Gustafson, who
made the last big rewrite of the Wiki.

In fact, I'm usually not concerned about style issues at all, as I do all
browsing in a plain text browser (w3m).

♪♫ Alex

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Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Arie van Wingerden]

Hi Nehal,

I see.Well, my biggest wish is to add more useful content than changing the
layout.

For me personally, the layout wasn't so nice. Guessing that this would be
the case for other people, I started to try to help.

Maybe we should wait for a while for all reactions.

Ultimate choice could be to restore the "old" CSS.

Thanks for commenting.

Best,
   Arie

Op ma 25 jun. 2018 om 07:20 schreef Nehal :

> I agree with Alexander. Base font would be better if bigger as before. I
> don't have much issue with look and feel of italicized content but base
> text be bigger (also with bigger base text italics may have to redefined)

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Arie van Wingerden]

Hi Alexander,


I haven't been following the recent website changes, but right now it
> seems the picolisp.com website is much worse than it used to be. A
> regression.
>

​Well, that is a blow to take in ...


>   - text is too small. Please use browser relative sizes in "em" and "%"
> instead of "px".
>

​OK. Good.
​

>   - don't put code samples in "bold". This is very hard to read.
>

​Maybe for some people, but for people with worse vision that might be
completely different.


>  - don't use italics for headers and section headers.
>

​That really is a question of "taste" I think!​ Isn't it?


>   - code samples background colour fights with text. bg should be much
> lighter.
>

​Weird. It is the same background color as ever ...​

   - don't use black #000 for text, but something a bit lighter like #222

> or #333.
>

​Again, I know for a fact that visually impaired people *hate* vague
letters.
What is so bad?​

 - don't limit the page to use 60% of the browser window, it's a waste
> of real-estate (too much whitespace on left/right). That technique
> should be reserved for blogs/articles.
>

​Well, that choice was made long ago by Alexander Burger himself. Nothing
has changed.​


> I'm not a designer, but I think the above is common sense.
>

​I'm not a designer as well. For me the changes seem an improvement

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Nehal]

I agree with Alexander. Base font would be better if bigger as before. I
don't have much issue with look and feel of italicized content but base
text be bigger (also with bigger base text italics may have to redefined).
The earlier wiki settings were also great and only some categorization of
articles was required. I got extremely occupied in other things and
couldn't focus on organization in last months here however it was well
placed in my mind.

With further suggestions from Mr Burger, I think we should focus on giving
quality articles that are well managed and organized. Fonts, look and
presence were great even before.

I have also not followed this discussion closely. So if this is being done
with collective decision making then it may be ok to continue with
improvements. I'll be happy to contribute in any way I can. :)


Regards,
Nehal

सा विद्या या विमुक्तये

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 7:10 AM Alexander Williams 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I haven't been following the recent website changes, but right now it
> seems the picolisp.com website is much worse than it used to be. A
> regression.
>
> A few issues I noted:
>
>  - text is too small. Please use browser relative sizes in "em" and "%"
> instead of "px".
>
>  - don't put code samples in "bold". This is very hard to read.
>
>  - don't use italics for headers and section headers.
>
>  - code samples background colour fights with text. bg should be much
> lighter.
>
>  - don't use black #000 for text, but something a bit lighter like #222
> or #333.
>
>  - don't limit the page to use 60% of the browser window, it's a waste
> of real-estate (too much whitespace on left/right). That technique
> should be reserved for blogs/articles.
>
> I'm not a designer, but I think the above is common sense.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> AW
>
>

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Alexander Williams]

Hello,

I haven't been following the recent website changes, but right now it
seems the picolisp.com website is much worse than it used to be. A
regression.

A few issues I noted:

 - text is too small. Please use browser relative sizes in "em" and "%"
instead of "px".

 - don't put code samples in "bold". This is very hard to read.

 - don't use italics for headers and section headers.

 - code samples background colour fights with text. bg should be much
lighter.

 - don't use black #000 for text, but something a bit lighter like #222
or #333.

 - don't limit the page to use 60% of the browser window, it's a waste
of real-estate (too much whitespace on left/right). That technique
should be reserved for blogs/articles.

I'm not a designer, but I think the above is common sense.

Cheers,


AW



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Arie van Wingerden]

Hi Olaf,

tomorrow I'll post my complete proposal of changes.

Thx. for testing!
   Arie

2018-06-21 15:49 GMT+02:00 O.Hamann :

> Hi Arie,
>
> called the page on 2 different smartphones, Tablet and Desktop (but
> Firefox everywhere) and found headers and text okay.
>
> Text is zoomable and responsive in landscape/portrait mode.
>
> I like it  (except the lightgreen background color :-), but that's out of
> scope of headers and top text).
>
> Greetings, Olaf
>
>
>
> On 18.06.2018 11:16, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
>> everybody to have a look at this page:
>> https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation
>>
>> Question:
>> - are the headers OK?
>> - is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?
>>
>>
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[O.Hamann]

Hi Arie,

called the page on 2 different smartphones, Tablet and Desktop (but 
Firefox everywhere) and found headers and text okay.


Text is zoomable and responsive in landscape/portrait mode.

I like it  (except the lightgreen background color :-), but that's out 
of scope of headers and top text).


Greetings, Olaf


On 18.06.2018 11:16, Arie van Wingerden wrote:

Hi all,

since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
everybody to have a look at this page:
https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation

Question:
- are the headers OK?
- is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?




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Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[David Bloom]

Looks clean to me.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 5:20 AM Arie van Wingerden  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
> everybody to have a look at this page:
> https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation
>
> Question:
> - are the headers OK?
> - is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?
>
> Note that we wish to recognize visually impaired people!
>
> Please react before friday 22th of june 2018.
>
> After that we'll change the defaults.
>
> Best,
>Arie
>

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Arie van Wingerden]

Hi Karl-Heinz,

yes. I understand that :)

After friday I'll post my proposed changes here.
With those it will be possible to use the CSS defaults by the easy Wiki
mark-up.

Thx. for helping!
   Arie

2018-06-19 23:12 GMT+02:00 Karl-Heinz Kreis :

> Hi Arie,
>
> When the markup for headings is updated in the wiki.css, you won't have
> to retype that again and again. In wiki-markup that should read like
> 
> ${
> 5{Start here}
> *{
> -{ first }
> -{ second }
> }
> }
> 
> With '${' on a line for itself you get an empty Style attribute, which
> reverts to standard, set by global and css settings done earlier.
> As Example i have edited the Introduction at the start of the
> Documentation page.
>
> My Best, Karl-Heinz
>
>
> > Hi Karl-Heinz,
> >
> > ok. That is out of my reach :)
> >
> > @Alex can we take that into account when updating the rest of the CSS?
> >
> > Thx!
> >Arie
>

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Karl-Heinz Kreis]

Hi Arie,

When the markup for headings is updated in the wiki.css, you won't have
to retype that again and again. In wiki-markup that should read like

${
5{Start here}
*{ 
-{ first }
-{ second }
}
}

With '${' on a line for itself you get an empty Style attribute, which
reverts to standard, set by global and css settings done earlier. 
As Example i have edited the Introduction at the start of the
Documentation page.

My Best, Karl-Heinz


> Hi Karl-Heinz,
> 
> ok. That is out of my reach :)
> 
> @Alex can we take that into account when updating the rest of the CSS?
> 
> Thx!
>Arie


pgpGLeNWkrdmF.pgp
Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Alexander Burger]

Hi Arie,

> ok. That is out of my reach :)
> 
> @Alex can we take that into account when updating the rest of the CSS?

Yes, just let me know what you want to have changed.

♪♫ Alex

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Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Arie van Wingerden]

Hi Karl-Heinz,

ok. That is out of my reach :)

@Alex can we take that into account when updating the rest of the CSS?

Thx!
   Arie

2018-06-18 14:16 GMT+02:00 Karl-Heinz Kreis :

> Hi all,
>
> On the Menu on top, try a lighter textcolor, ie. lightgrey, to enhance
> contrast. Stark white could be to much...
>
> On the generated html:
>
> The Text enclosed in divs does function as heading, so better use
> headings (example below). The divs are better suited to enclose a
> complet sublist, see 2nd example below. That snippet actually works in
> a testing page :). The necessary Styles can be placed into the .css
> file.
>
> Hopefully my remarks will help.
>
>
> Best, khk
>
> P.S.:
> My knowledge of HTML and CSS stems from reworking a CMS-free Site, ftp
> access only, which was the the produce of Dreamweaver in the hands of a
> printer ;)
>
>
>  example of generated html
> Start here
>
> 
>https://software-lab.de/doc/tut.html;>A PicoLisp
> Tutorial Explore the language on this guided tour. Refreshments
> to follow!
>...
>  https://software-lab.de/doc/index.html;>The Common
>  Index The essential PicoLisp documentation in one gloriously
>  hyperlinked document.
> 
> 
> Start here
> 
> Test
> more text...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
> > everybody to have a look at this page:
> > https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation
> >
> > Question:
> > - are the headers OK?
> > - is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?
> >
> > Note that we wish to recognize visually impaired people!
> >
> > Please react before friday 22th of june 2018.
> >
> > After that we'll change the defaults.
> >
> > Best,
> >Arie
>
>

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Arie van Wingerden]

Hi Jean-Christophe,

the top text just serves as an example for what I intend to change the rest
of the Wiki default text to.
Because I now still have to insert CSS per each paragraph, I only did it
for this one piece of text :)

Best,
   Arie

2018-06-18 13:11 GMT+02:00 Jean-Christophe Helary :

> Arie,
>
> Is there a reason why there are 2 different fonts: one for the
> Introduction and one for the rest ?
>
> JC
>
>
> On Jun 18, 2018, at 18:16, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
> everybody to have a look at this page: https://picolisp.com/
> wiki/?Documentation
>
> Question:
> - are the headers OK?
> - is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?
>
> Note that we wish to recognize visually impaired people!
>
> Please react before friday 22th of june 2018.
>
> After that we'll change the defaults.
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
>
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
>
>
>

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Karl-Heinz Kreis]

Hi all,

On the Menu on top, try a lighter textcolor, ie. lightgrey, to enhance
contrast. Stark white could be to much...

On the generated html:

The Text enclosed in divs does function as heading, so better use
headings (example below). The divs are better suited to enclose a
complet sublist, see 2nd example below. That snippet actually works in
a testing page :). The necessary Styles can be placed into the .css
file.

Hopefully my remarks will help.


Best, khk

P.S.:
My knowledge of HTML and CSS stems from reworking a CMS-free Site, ftp
access only, which was the the produce of Dreamweaver in the hands of a
printer ;)


 example of generated html
Start here


   https://software-lab.de/doc/tut.html;>A PicoLisp
Tutorial Explore the language on this guided tour. Refreshments
to follow!
   ...
 https://software-lab.de/doc/index.html;>The Common
 Index The essential PicoLisp documentation in one gloriously
 hyperlinked document. 


Start here

Test
more text...

...

  


> Hi all,
> 
> since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
> everybody to have a look at this page:
> https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation
> 
> Question:
> - are the headers OK?
> - is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?
> 
> Note that we wish to recognize visually impaired people!
> 
> Please react before friday 22th of june 2018.
> 
> After that we'll change the defaults.
> 
> Best,
>Arie



pgpYIyczEIleH.pgp
Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

Arie,

Is there a reason why there are 2 different fonts: one for the Introduction and 
one for the rest ?

JC

> On Jun 18, 2018, at 18:16, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask everybody 
> to have a look at this page: https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation 
> 
> 
> Question:
> - are the headers OK?
> - is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?
> 
> Note that we wish to recognize visually impaired people!
> 
> Please react before friday 22th of june 2018.
> 
> After that we'll change the defaults.
> 
> Best,
>Arie

Jean-Christophe Helary
---
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune