Re: [pinhole-discussion] I am so not done wondering!!!!
Never, never, never, ever be a slave to technology. Talk 2 U L8R, Jasper Taylor --- andy schmitt aschm...@warwick.net wrote: Jasper, I was a slave to my chemicals last night as I developed some 4x5's in my darkroom. My master controls my weekends and some of my weekday evenings. But my work master pays me money so I can give it to my photo master so he can torture me some more. is not!! 8*D andy Andy Is!! Silver printed pinholes on the other hand are much harder to control. With silver if I want each final image to be of the same quality the setup and recording takes time and effort. It can take me a whole day to produce one print. With digital it can take me less than one hour (from a silver negative, that is) and I am assured that every subsequent print will be identical. If then I want to do some fancy work on the image with digital it is simple, with silver it is a challenge and time consuming. Alexis Alexis And there is another thing I try to avoid, editions. I know it's what photo sales are based on, but I feel even though you can reproduce the same image again and again, you don't have to. Each time I am in the darkroom I am in a different mood, so I am not going to print the same. I never write down the exposure time or the filter or the developing time or any of that stuff. I do what moves me at the time. But at the same time I don't limit myself to an edition of 25. I can print the same negative a thousand times in a thousand different ways to please myself. But I also have never been represented by a gallery or sold a print. Unless you consider the donation print I gave to Visual Aids that sold for $50. And I love time consuming. I have a fear of boredom. Bored is what I am all day at work, so I spend hours writing emails to discussion groups and surfing the web. Lisa
[pinhole-discussion] digital wonderings
Luish wrote: but I see that most of the people just don't get what digital image is about yet. Luish, Isn't it interesting that you think people don't understand what digital can do. But I, on the other side, doing nothing digital, feel like people have forgotten the pleasures of non digital. I am shocked that on a pinhole discussion group so many people are digital. One of my basic reasons for doing pinhole is it's low level of technology. But obviously there are others like yourself who feel that too many people aren't ready for digital. Maybe we are all just defensive about our way because it is important to each of us. I personally would shrivel up and die if digital was all we had left. I could change how I do my art and do it digitally, but I wouldn't because it would be so unpleasent for me. It's all about the process. I would not enjoy the process of scanning and clicking to get a final image. My alternate personality hasn't done it's job if we don't smell toxic. When all the photo chemicals and emulsions have been used up I will have to become a conceptual photographer. All ideas, no photographs. May we all be happy in our own little worlds. Lisa
Re: [pinhole-discussion] wondering
All I can say is HUH??? I don't get it. Maybe that's why I make sure to keep my photographs and my computers very far away from each other. Are you saying that digital folk are just as obsessed with CCD's and KPT's as I am with aluminum foil, black tape boxes and plastic chemical containers of all shapes and sizes? Lisa I must desagree with you, Lisa. the digital darkroom is a totally different experience. Let's try to take a look at this subject from a perspective of ten years in the future. Photoshop and similars were first invented from the reference in the material world of silver plate behaviours, etc., but the digital deals with different atoms that we call pixels, and I believe it will grow even more different as the years go by. In phisical photography we are totaly envolved with the camera and the nature of film and paper. In digital photography we have the lenses (or not, the astronomical digital cameras are pinholes) AND the CCD, which is a chip. A chip captures what its software tells it to capture. it may capture heat or infrared or whatever set of lightwaves we wish. can you imagine if Kay Krause would program a CCD? (Krause invented the out-of-earth plugin KPT and Bryce). I believe that the CCDs we have today are only little kids playing the regular human eyes game. I have built a pinhole from my digital sony DSC-70, I saw the CCD, it is a beautiful piece of blue cristal. []s luish http://www.ignore.com.br an Ansel Adamss Lisa Reddig wrote: OK, I'm gonna be the PHOTOSHOP BAD person. I don't understand why so many people think working on a computer is easier than working in the darkroom. They will spend hours and hours dodging and burning and sharpening in front of a monitor, while complaining about how hard it is to do it in the darkroom. Why should I sit in front of a computer for hours to do what I can do sitting in a darkroom for hours? Some people are hesitant to make the switch because it is not a necessary switch. It is just a preference. Lisa ___ Post to the list as PLAIN TEXT only - no HTML Pinhole-Discussion mailing list Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? unsubscribe or change your account at http://www.???/discussion/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] wondering about photoshop sharpening
OK, I'm gonna be the PHOTOSHOP BAD person. I don't understand why so many people think working on a computer is easier than working in the darkroom. They will spend hours and hours dodging and burning and sharpening in front of a monitor, while complaining about how hard it is to do it in the darkroom. Why should I sit in front of a computer for hours to do what I can do sitting in a darkroom for hours? Some people are hesitant to make the switch because it is not a necessary switch. It is just a preference. I wouldn't even contemplate doing my photography on a computer. Computers are not part of my personal idea of myself as a photographer. Lisa the photographer spends her weekends in a darkroom, with chemicals on her hands and old mixed tapes playing on the old tape player. Lisa the employee spends her workdays in front of a computer screen sizing images for the web, typing and surfing. And back to Jean's original question: A pinhole camera can be made out of a box and a piece of aluminum foil. I'd like to see someone make a homemade SLR in one afternoon. With the cost of one SLR camera I can make a bazilion different pinhole cameras. That's one of the many reasons pinhole is different than traditional photography. And tell your sister that the tradition of blurry pictures is so old it's not even questioned in the art world any more, not even when done with a good camera. I of course am not saying blurry makes a picture good art, but it doesn't, in and of itself, make it a bad picture. That's just old school art speak for ya. Lisa I've arrived at the conclusion that *any* photographic technique can be duped digitally and don't understand why some people are hesitant to make the switch. Just remember to use your best lense and take the *sharpest* photo you can. Everything else is keyboard-frierndly. regards, joseph wonder why we don't just take traditional lens photographs and smear them a little and print them out to look like pinhole work. ___ Post to the list as PLAIN TEXT only - no HTML Pinhole-Discussion mailing list Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? unsubscribe or change your account at http://www.???/discussion/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] pinhole and strobe?
Margaret I can take pictures with a flash with my pinholes. I do it all the time. What do you get when you try it? I guess if you are using one with a really show speed it might take a lot more flashes. But I've done it with a 35mm camera modified with a pinhole on the front, and with small boxes I've made myself. Lisa From: Margaret Crowe winr...@hotmail.com Hi all, I hope I'm posting this in the right place!! Just wondering if anyone can explain to me why it's not possible to take photos with my pinhole using flashes (strobe)? MARGARET
[pinhole-discussion] Camera Obscura and Pinhole at Bienniel
So I finally made it to the Whitney Bienniel on Friday. Saturday was the last day. I thought ya'll would be interested in knowing about the pinhole photos in the show. Maybe someones already chatted about it, but I'll give my own description. Vera Lutter turned various rooms in to Camera Obscuras, one overlooking a pier in NYC and the other at the Frankfurt Airport. What was displayed are the one of a kind large paper negatives, not prints. She has taken away the problem of editioning and limiting prints by using the negatives as the final piece. They are both about 5 feet high and 15 feet wide (just a guess). Each consists of 2 or three sheets mounted on canvas on a frame. The Airport one was the most interesting. You are looking at the underbelly of a large jet and it's wings are flying out to either side. Hirsch Perlman did something quite contrary to Vera. He did pinhole photographs over many months, in a room in his apartment. In the room he would continually be modeling and arranging things made out of cardboard. Alot of humanoid/robotic figures. Some of it is rather dark and disturbing, looking at something you don't want to see in someones mind. They were titled by the day of the project and which image it was. So 28.2 would be the second image taken on day 28. Totally the opposite of Vera's paper negatives. Hirsch's images are printed 16x20, quite negatives, making streaks and spots on the prints. Vera's were pristine, perfectly exposed, printed and mounted. As final works go I would have to say I like Vera's work better. It has a better graffic quality. But I must say my aesthetics in my own work are much more like Hirsch, grungy, small and personal. Check out the Whitney web site and see for yourself. http://www.whitney.org/2002biennial/ Later Lisa ** Olly Olly Oxen Free **
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: pinhole is not about sharpness?
I like to take blurry pictures, but a picture is not good just because it is blurry. Lisa
[pinhole-discussion] On the spot camera
I think Don's idea is super. The best way to take advantage of what pinhole is all about. And it also makes each trip special with it's own camera. Thanks for the suggestion Don. I can't wait for my next vacation. Lisa - Original Message - From: D Hill I suggest for all of you who are travelling soon to try a new angle with pinhole. Create images with vessels you find once you get there - a discarded box, a hotel match-box, a toilet paper tube - anything you can make light tight is potentially a camera. This was a very exciting and invigorating re-exposure to the nature and communication of pinhole photography for me. Take care, Don -- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
Re: [pinhole-discussion] United States airline screening and film
Tom What does the x-ray damage look like? Lisa - Original Message - From: Tom Miller twmil...@mr.net To: pinhole-discussion@p at ??? Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] United States airline screening and film Hi Jeff: Learn from my recent mistakes: I flew to New Orleans in February and bought film there intending to have it processed there, too. I made exposures with a box of Portra 100T and exposed two or three rolls each of Portra 400VC and Ektachrome 64T. The trip went too quick, and I didn't get the film processed there. I ran all the film through the hand-held baggage x-ray. The Portra made it through OK; but the Extachrome 64T was ruined by this one pass through an x-ray machine. I'd recommend checking ahead to make sure that the film you want is available in Salt Lake City and have them hold it for you. Make sure that there is processing available and that the processor knows you're coming. I wasted a lot vacation time calling numerous photo stores in New Orleans only to find out that the film I wanted wasn't available. Spent a lot of time calling labs, too, only to find that their service times didn't mesh with my interary. So, I got to learn the hard way. An alternative is to FedEx film to yourself in Salt Lake City. Then you'll know that you'll have the film you want. The last I heard, FedEx was not x-raying packages; but, things are changing fast these days. A friend how beta-tests new film for manufacturers put it this way: one pass through an x-ray damages film. Tom - Original Message - From: Jeff Dilcher r...@hiddenworld.net To: pinhole-discussion@p at ??? Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:47 AM Subject: [pinhole-discussion] United States airline screening and film Hi folks, I will be taking vacation to Utah in June, and will be shooting some pinhole while out there. Can anyone tell me whether xray or other screening equitment will adversly affect color or black and white film? I primarily shoot TMAX 100, but may bring some color film as well... Maybe someone has had some recent experiences, and can shed some light on this (no pun intended). Thanks, Jeff ___ Post to the list as PLAIN TEXT only - no HTML Pinhole-Discussion mailing list Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? unsubscribe or change your account at http://www.???/discussion/ ___ Post to the list as PLAIN TEXT only - no HTML Pinhole-Discussion mailing list Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? unsubscribe or change your account at http://www.???/discussion/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] cameras from the grocery
- Original Message - From: jack durrett jd...@cox.net But I'm a pretty shameless camera-hopper. I see a new shape I want to try and I just swap out the pinhole shim. I haven't used a camera enough (a couple of weeks, maybe a month) to really put it through the ringer but so far so good. Jack Me Too. My cameras are usually really shoddy taped together recycled cardboard boxes. By the time I've taken all the pictures I want to with them they are practically useless. I do alot of repairs and taping as I go, so it ends up a big mess of tape. And they usually have some kind of flap that opens to put in and take out the film, and that becomes pretty weak from being opened and closed so much. Good thing I always have about 10 boxes of varying sizes waiting around to become cameras. Lisa
[pinhole-discussion] Houston fotofest
Hey, Is anyone going to Houston for the FotoFest in March? Lisa ** Olly Olly Oxen Free **
Re: [pinhole-discussion] RE: plastic surgery on PH cameras
- Original Message - From: ragowaring ragowar...@btinternet.com Does that mean we are dealing with a schizophrenic medium or are we just kidding ourselves that everything is going to be just fine? I don't think it's the medium that's schizophrenic, I think it's the artist. For myself I have this dislike to use the same camera on more than one project. I feel like the camera chose for me to use it shooting one thing. And when it is done with that project it has fulfilled it's reason for being. I feel hollow and empty if I try to use it on another subject, unless it is an obvious run off of the previous one and would lend itself to what has already been done. And I know this is all in my head, but that's the way I am. And it's ok, because I can make a zillion formats of camera's and always find new subjects. Lisa
Re: [pinhole-discussion] pinhole noise, secret holes, and sampling grapes
- Original Message - From: R Duarte ra...@rahji.com Here's my embarrassing contribution to the two topics... http://www.rahji.com/images/pinhole_chairhole.jpg Here's why it happened.. This is a polaroid land camera that I bought for $2 and modified so that the shutter stays open as long as you hold the button down... http://www.rahji.com/images/polaroidmishap.jpg Rob, I love the photo. The hole is almost round, but slightly smashed in on a couple of sides. And it goes real well with the metallic confusing subject. I kind of feel upside down when looking at it. And I happen to like light leaks on the side. It adds an extra dimension to the negative. Makes it more than just an illusion. I do like the solid black border as well, but the addition of the light gives some abstraction to a non abstract photo. It's doing just what emulsion does, it's registering light that hits it. It kind of knocks the viewer out of their reverie that the image they are seeing is real. It's not, it's just light hitting film or paper in some sort of order. Lisa
[pinhole-discussion] public shooting
- Original Message - From: ragowaring ragowar...@btinternet.com If you have a fear of being caught in the act however small the probability, then announce to everyone what you are doing by making you camera a parody of a camera. Have I mentioned my fear of attention from people. It makes me extremely sweaty and nervous. And especially when they want to ask me questions about what I am doing. It all just makes me uncomfortable. Some would call it shy. At this point I wouldn't even know what to shoot outside of my apartment. I have geared my ideas and images so much to where I live, that is what all my ideas are of now. And those ideas just keep coming. Lisa
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Art 21: Ann Hamilton
- Original Message - From: R Duarte ra...@rahji.com candid images of people. For fun you should check out this odd site I heard of last week. http://www.pinholespy.com/ It's a little strange, but interesting. There have been a number of well known photographers who have done sneeky pictures like that. (My favorite Harry Callahan to name one) The dillemma as always with these kinds of things is the moral one. I know legally people in public can be photographed legally. But I would feel paranoid doing it secretly. Too much stress. Kind of like stealing a grape at the fruit stand, it doen't really matter, but it stresses me out because of the minute possibility of being caught. And I guess my voyeristic tendencies are quite small. lisa
[pinhole-discussion] Burrs
- Original Message - From: Andy Schmitt aschm...@warwick.net to insure there are no burrs. I've actually had some really nice results with messy holes with lots of burrs. I use aluminum foil and just poke through with no sanding. And if you have the film close enough to the hole you can see the shape of the hole. And it ain't round, thats for sure. I can see the little fibers of torn foil, and the exact shape of the hole that is too hard to discern with the naked eye. It feels like looking through a secret hole in the wall. Like spying on someone. I did a bunch of my bedroom that have a very dirty, voyeristic quality to them. lisa
Re: [pinhole-discussion] transparency film...xray duplication film
2) I will make this on-topic, I promise. Conservation of mass as it applies to pairs of domestic pets...one loses weight, the other one gains it. I have been wanting to do some cat pinhole shotsthe tail twitching and contortions they do might be interesting with long exposures. Hey Murray I did some great pinholes of my 2 cats. I used a flash though. And when you get down at there level and flash them with the camera close up you get some great contortions of the cats body. Big tail or missing a leg or something. My 2 cats are one black and one white so I also saw the difference in the brightness. The white cat was blown out, very bright. The dark cat was hard to see, dark. All very moody because the cats were close and the flash was on them and the background went dark alot. And for an extra irony the cameras I was using (i had 2: one with one hole, one with 2 holes for a double image) were made out of Animal Cracker boxes. The specifics of the film are bw trix pan negative film. 2 1/2 x 4, made by cutting 4x5 film in half. Lisa
Re: [pinhole-discussion] A NEW DEBATE
alexis writes: My background is that of a painter but I am also a science graduate so I suppose I fall between two camps. I remember when I switched my major in college from Engineering to Photography and the head photo teacher said that was not at all strange. Science and Photography are very closely linked. I had the same chemically smell coming out of chem lab as I did coming out of the darkroom. And you spend alot of time measuring, experimenting, and documenting. lisa
Re: [pinhole-discussion] A NEW DEBATE
TIME! It is all about the time of the thing... Jack I like that. Not that I do really long exposures, but it's true. Even 5 seconds is way more noticable than 1/125. With all of my camera's it takes time to reload the film, I'm not just advancing film through a camera. So there's more time. When I move the camera and make blurs and streaks that is also like recording time. Thanks for the concept, I guess I should have thought of it before, but I will keep it in mind in the future and see how it relates to my photographing. Lisa
Re: [pinhole-discussion] A NEW DEBATE
I am so happy that we are talking about the WHY of pinhole. I have been keeping an eye on this list for a while, and alot of the technical talk is not for me (don't get me wrong, some of it is really helpful if it pertains to what I am working on). My major Why's fall in to the following 3 topics. Of course there are other reasons but these are the basics. 1) My favorite part of pinhole is it's untechnical side. It's amazing how little it takes to make a photograph. Just a hole poked in aluminum foil taped to a box with some film fitted inside. That's it. The hole doesn't have to be the right size for the optimum focal length, the exposure time can be anywhere within a wide range. Just cardboard and tape hiding the film from leaks. It's like magic. And it can all be done at home. From box to film to print. 2) Making the pinhole image is all about light to me. It's so direct, the light going in the hole on to the film. It's easier to visualize than with a regular camera. Before I take my pictures I always consider what the light source will be, natural or flash, and what that will be doing in the photograph, what it will mean in the context of that photograph. 3) My other consideration in making a pinhole picture is how the camera and film size relates to the subject. I always have one camera for one project. Usually I make the camera from some cool box I have, then I find a subject that utelizes something unique about that camera. I make my first exposures not really knowing what I am going to get. Then I see the results of the first batch and see what I like and work from there. I have no idea from the start what I am going to end up with. I have no preconseved notions, I take what I get along the way and work with it. lisa
[pinhole-discussion] editions
Hello Does anyone know anywhere online I can learn about the rules of editioning and pricing prints? Thanks lisa ** Olly Olly Oxen Free **
Re: [pinhole-discussion] finally finished my first pinhole attempt (35 mm color roll film)
Murray I think the clarity is wonderful. Blur and distortion is what pinhole is all about. The self portrait is the best. That blue color is real nice, and the odd angle from what ever the reflection is on really works. And all those big talls grasses filling up the empty space between you and the ball are nice. And the cut off head is interesting too. lisa
Re: [pinhole-discussion] color processing
I had been asking around a month or so ago to people I know about doing color processing at home. And all of them warned me of the very dangerous chemicals involved. Any tips from those of you who have been doing it. I would love to do my color at home like I do my own black and white, so I can have the contol. But the chemicals have been scaring me away. lisa
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Clouds Over Columbus
Jeff, Amazing photograph. It has a great sence of movement and pull towards the buildings in the center. And the clouds filling up the sky intensify that. Most of the other images on your sight are a lot more still, with out the dramatic lines shooting in towards the middle. Another one on your site that I like is the one with the trees and river and a bunch of what look like sticks shooting up out of the ground. There is something amazing happening to the light on the horizon at the edge of the trees. It's so fantastical and almost unreal, like a dream or a spiritual moment. lisa r
