Re: [PLUG] Desktop machine failures

[Denis Heidtmann]

On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Bill Barry  wrote:
>
>
> For some reason there is a remnant of the old grub hanging around on
> your system and occasionally your system is trying to boot from it.
> You might diagnose the problem by running sudo bootinfoscript
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bootinfoscript/
> and looking at the RESULTS.TXT file it creates.
> Bill
>

You are correct, but I certainly do not know what all the stuff in
 RESULTS.TXT means to me.  Here is what appears to be essential (let me
know if you need more):

  Boot Info Script 0.61  [1 April 2012]


= Boot Info Summary:
===

 => Grub Legacy (v0.97) is installed in the MBR of /dev/sda and looks on
the
same drive in partition #1 for /boot/grub/stage2 and
/boot/grub/menu.lst.

sda1:
__

File system:   ext3
Boot sector type:  -
Boot sector info:
Operating System:  Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS
Boot files:/boot/grub/menu.lst /etc/fstab
   /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf

sda2:
__

File system:   Extended Partition
Boot sector type:  -
Boot sector info:

sda5:
__

File system:   swap
Boot sector type:  -
Boot sector info:


Doesn't this say that Legacy Grub is what is always used?

What actions do you recommenced?

Thanks so much for your help.

-Denis
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Re: [PLUG] Desktop machine failures

[Bill Barry]

On Jul 13, 2015 10:43 AM, "Denis Heidtmann" 
wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Bill Barry  wrote:
> >
> >
> > For some reason there is a remnant of the old grub hanging around on
> > your system and occasionally your system is trying to boot from it.
> > You might diagnose the problem by running sudo bootinfoscript
> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/bootinfoscript/
> > and looking at the RESULTS.TXT file it creates.
> > Bill
> >
>
> You are correct, but I certainly do not know what all the stuff in
>  RESULTS.TXT means to me.  Here is what appears to be essential (let me
> know if you need more):
>
>   Boot Info Script 0.61  [1 April 2012]
>
>
> = Boot Info Summary:
> ===
>
>  => Grub Legacy (v0.97) is installed in the MBR of /dev/sda and looks on
> the
> same drive in partition #1 for /boot/grub/stage2 and
> /boot/grub/menu.lst.
>
> sda1:
> __
>
> File system:   ext3
> Boot sector type:  -
> Boot sector info:
> Operating System:  Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS
> Boot files:/boot/grub/menu.lst /etc/fstab
>/boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf
>
> sda2:
> __
>
> File system:   Extended Partition
> Boot sector type:  -
> Boot sector info:
>
> sda5:
> __
>
> File system:   swap
> Boot sector type:  -
> Boot sector info:
>
>
> Doesn't this say that Legacy Grub is what is always used?
>
> What actions do you recommenced?
>
> Thanks so much for your help.
>
> -Denis
>
Yes, this shows the system is using grub legacy and I am pretty sure that
is what is causing your boot problems. There is a page here
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Upgrading

describing how to upgrade to grub2.

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Re: [PLUG] What CMS to use ?

[Louis Kowolowski]

OK. From that, I don’t see anything that requires any particular technology, 
language, etc.

You may want to investigate some static site generators, and, to be fair in 
comparisons, check out things like wordpress, drupal, etc

Pick the one that looks like it will do what you want and be the least amount 
of effort to maintain going forward (this could be either on the server side, 
or the client side. for example upgrading pkgs on a regular basis may not be 
something you want to do. you may decide you want to be able to manage content 
via the browser. etc.)


> On Jul 11, 2015, at 2:51 PM, Pete Lancashire  wrote:
> 
> It is time for me to start putting stuff on my website. One section will be
> litterly 1,000s of scanned magazines, catalogs etc, Then another topics of
> interest, musings etc.
> 
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Louis Kowolowski 
> wrote:
> 
>> If you go with something that is PHP based, be careful. There are *lots*
>> of exploits for PHP.
>> 
>> What kind of requirements do you have?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 10, 2015, at 12:18 PM, Nat Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You can read about them here: http://www.opensourcecms.com/
>>> 
>>> IMO, WordPress simplest, drupal is super powerful and extensible, and
>>> joomla has a pretty admin interface.
>>> …
>>> ___
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>> 
>> --
>> Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org
>> 
>> Cryptomonkeys:
>> http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ 
>> 
>> Making life more interesting for people since 1977
>> 
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Re: [PLUG] What CMS to use ?

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, Louis Kowolowski wrote:

> You may want to investigate some static site generators, and, to be fair
> in comparisons, check out things like wordpress, drupal, etc

   Some time last year there were reports of a wordpress vulnerability that
was being exploited; probably fixed by now.

> Pick the one that looks like it will do what you want and be the least
> amount of effort to maintain going forward (this could be either on the
> server side, or the client side. for example upgrading pkgs on a regular
> basis may not be something you want to do. you may decide you want to be
> able to manage content via the browser. etc.)

   If the ISP hosts the software Pete needs only provide the content.

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] What CMS to use ?

[Nathan Williams]

if you can get away with it, i'd suggest a static site generator like
middleman or jekyll. much easier to host and operate, and way fewer
security considerations.

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 1:46 PM Rich Shepard 
wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, Louis Kowolowski wrote:
>
> > You may want to investigate some static site generators, and, to be fair
> > in comparisons, check out things like wordpress, drupal, etc
>
>Some time last year there were reports of a wordpress vulnerability that
> was being exploited; probably fixed by now.
>
> > Pick the one that looks like it will do what you want and be the least
> > amount of effort to maintain going forward (this could be either on the
> > server side, or the client side. for example upgrading pkgs on a regular
> > basis may not be something you want to do. you may decide you want to be
> > able to manage content via the browser. etc.)
>
>If the ISP hosts the software Pete needs only provide the content.
>
> Rich
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Re: [PLUG] Desktop machine failures

[Denis Heidtmann]

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Bill Barry  wrote:
>
> Yes, this shows the system is using grub legacy and I am pretty sure that
> is what is causing your boot problems. There is a page here
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Upgrading
>
> describing how to upgrade to grub2.
>
> Bill
>
> Help!  Got through all that, up  through successful chainloading Grub 2.
Test booted; worked fine.  So then I entered sudo
upgrade-from-grub-legacy.  Now I am presented with a screen asking what
devices to install Grub on: /dev/sda and /dev/sda1.  I want to select
/dev/sda, but I can select neither!  Tab moves the highlight from the [ ]
in front of each choice, then to OK, but I cannot make a mark in either of
the [ ] spaces.  Note that the instruction said I would be presented with
this choice earlier in the upgrade process at step 4, but it was not
presented.

So, how to safely recover from this?

Thanks,

-Denis
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Re: [PLUG] What CMS to use ?

[Pete Lancashire]

>>   If the ISP hosts the software Pete needs only provide the content.

They do, and I don't get 'root', its basically use an app they provide, or
if everything fits in PHP then you can upload to your document-root.

I don't mind going with something that starting off with would be overkill.
I hate getting trapped in a corner later on.



On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Rich Shepard 
wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, Louis Kowolowski wrote:
>
> > You may want to investigate some static site generators, and, to be fair
> > in comparisons, check out things like wordpress, drupal, etc
>
>Some time last year there were reports of a wordpress vulnerability that
> was being exploited; probably fixed by now.
>
> > Pick the one that looks like it will do what you want and be the least
> > amount of effort to maintain going forward (this could be either on the
> > server side, or the client side. for example upgrading pkgs on a regular
> > basis may not be something you want to do. you may decide you want to be
> > able to manage content via the browser. etc.)
>
>If the ISP hosts the software Pete needs only provide the content.
>
> Rich
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Re: [PLUG] What CMS to use ?

[Louis Kowolowski]

I’m partial to that as well, but I also know that they can be a PITA sometimes, 
depending on how you want to format your documents. I’ve gone many rounds 
creating tables in rst and md and its absolutely horrible.


> On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:01 PM, Nathan Williams  wrote:
> 
> if you can get away with it, i'd suggest a static site generator like
> middleman or jekyll. much easier to host and operate, and way fewer
> security considerations.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 1:46 PM Rich Shepard 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, Louis Kowolowski wrote:
>> 
>>> You may want to investigate some static site generators, and, to be fair
>>> in comparisons, check out things like wordpress, drupal, etc
>> 
>>   Some time last year there were reports of a wordpress vulnerability that
>> was being exploited; probably fixed by now.
>> 
>>> Pick the one that looks like it will do what you want and be the least
>>> amount of effort to maintain going forward (this could be either on the
>>> server side, or the client side. for example upgrading pkgs on a regular
>>> basis may not be something you want to do. you may decide you want to be
>>> able to manage content via the browser. etc.)
>> 
>>   If the ISP hosts the software Pete needs only provide the content.
>> 
>> Rich
>> ___
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>> 
> ___
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--
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Cryptomonkeys:   http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ 


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Re: [PLUG] Forking F/OSS

[Louis Kowolowski]

I think the real problem, as unpopular as it is to discuss, is people. People 
want to do certain things, behave in certain ways. When you have a F/OSS group, 
you can’t force people to behave in particular ways because they always have 
the option to go join a group that lets them do what they want. This could be 
true for code style, revision control, unit tests, when/how often releases 
should happen, etc. Almost every aspect has groups on both sides for what and 
how things should happen. I believe that until you figure out a way to solve 
the human problems, adding/creating/changing tools won’t make any real 
difference.


> On Jul 12, 2015, at 2:37 PM, Keith Lofstrom  wrote:
> 
> Firefox, Flash, Gnome ...
> 
> It seems that F/OSS development is migrating away from stability
> and towards inept and self-indulgent experimentation. 
> 
> Traditionally, F/OSS development is a way to develop skills and
> demonstrate competence - which is a path to "A Real Job".  When
> competence actually earns a job (and a family, and a house, and
> aging parents, and ...) there is no longer time for major
> participation in F/OSS, and the boring but necessary tracking
> down of security flaws and functional bugs. 
> 
> ( note: boring == not properly automated )
> 
> So we are left with the less employable developers, and those
> participating in order to Try Glitzy New Stuff as opposed to those
> interested in bullet-proof bug-free iterations of old-but-complete
> functionality.  Meanwhile, many of us users would like a platform
> that worked the same way forever (without the bugs, and with drivers
> for new hardware), so we can build our own elaborations on top. 
> I want software bedrock for my own intellectual skyscrapers,
> I do not want to be a temporary visitor in someone else's.
> 
> If we must make transitions (say from 32 to 64 bits) we want our
> old stuff to remain working, and new 64 bit tools to retain all
> the legacy capabilities of the 32 bit tools.  Most of us have
> plenty of other Real World change to cope with.  We want to use
> the tools we already have to help us with that Real World.  If
> I have a bit of wonky but usable code from 1990, I want to keep
> using it in 2015 or 2025, perhaps emulated in a secure container.
> 
> Richard Stallman natters about software's Four Freedoms, but as
> the trite saying goes, "freedom isn't free".  When I've argued
> with him (is there any other way to interact with this guy?),
> he seems oblivious to the fact that the freedoms he demands are
> purchased by supporting the equally valid (and different)
> freedoms of those who have come to depend on the software he
> and his allies have developed.  If user freedoms are ignored,
> then "free" software becomes too expensive to use, and is
> regretfully abandoned.  Stallman and his posse then must
> find Real Jobs, possibly involving sinks and dishes. 
> 
> It does not have to be this way.  Stallman can have Four
> Freedoms (or five or six or twenty) if he helps create freedoms
> for others.  Creating freedom can be a lot more efficient with
> adequate attention to efficient and robust production tools.
> This is where F/OSS can really shine.  Give us control of the
> tools, and we shape what is made from them.
> 
> A small device like an iPhone goes through thousands of tests
> during assembly.  It is made from components that go through
> hundreds of thousands of tests on their way from candidate
> geological ore body to reliable subcomponent.  All those steps
> are hyperautomated, not touched by human hands. This results in
> an iPhone sells for hundreds rather than millions of dollars. 
> The electronics industry, and the materials and equipment
> industries that feed it, are a vast assembly of automated
> procedures and billions of lines of code, with well defined
> interfaces, transforming the messy cacaphony of raw nature
> and human personality into discrete and predictable products.
> 
> Meanwhile, almost all software, libre or proprietary, suffers
> from way too many flaws, and way too few tools and techniques
> to prevent or detect and repair those flaws.   So software
> breaks, and we expend vast effort working around the flaws
> until somebody is motivated to fix it with quite primitive
> software diagnosis, development, and repair tools.  Which
> AFAIK, still mostly consists of eyeballs and human experience.
> 
> So, I should not call for chastizing sloppy, inept developers
> and their ideological leaders, as emotionally tempting as
> that is.  Instead, let's treat this as an engineering and
> automation problem.  What tools can we create to take human
> weakness out of the development loop, what systems can we
> create to automate the production and testing of software? 
> How can we multiply eyeballs with algorithms?
> 
> What certifications can we create for software that show
> ordinary software consumers that these tools and systems have
> been used properly?  How do we evolve the certifications so

Re: [PLUG] Desktop machine failures

[Bill Barry]

On Jul 13, 2015 2:04 PM, "Denis Heidtmann" 
wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Bill Barry  wrote:
> >
> > Yes, this shows the system is using grub legacy and I am pretty sure
that
> > is what is causing your boot problems. There is a page here
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Upgrading
> >
> > describing how to upgrade to grub2.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > Help!  Got through all that, up  through successful chainloading Grub 2.
> Test booted; worked fine.  So then I entered sudo
> upgrade-from-grub-legacy.  Now I am presented with a screen asking what
> devices to install Grub on: /dev/sda and /dev/sda1.  I want to select
> /dev/sda, but I can select neither!  Tab moves the highlight from the [ ]
> in front of each choice, then to OK, but I cannot make a mark in either of
> the [ ] spaces.  Note that the instruction said I would be presented with
> this choice earlier in the upgrade process at step 4, but it was not
> presented.
>
> So, how to safely recover from this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Denis
> _

You want to choose /dev/sda, not sda1.
Space bar should choose the one want, but I am not sure.

Bill
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Re: [PLUG] Desktop machine failures

[Denis Heidtmann]

More below

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Denis Heidtmann 
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Bill Barry  wrote:
>>
>> Yes, this shows the system is using grub legacy and I am pretty sure that
>> is what is causing your boot problems. There is a page here
>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Upgrading
>>
>> describing how to upgrade to grub2.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Help!  Got through all that, up  through successful chainloading Grub 2.
> Test booted; worked fine.  So then I entered sudo
> upgrade-from-grub-legacy.  Now I am presented with a screen asking what
> devices to install Grub on: /dev/sda and /dev/sda1.  I want to select
> /dev/sda, but I can select neither!  Tab moves the highlight from the [ ]
> in front of each choice, then to OK, but I cannot make a mark in either of
> the [ ] spaces.  Note that the instruction said I would be presented with
> this choice earlier in the upgrade process at step 4, but it was not
> presented.
>
> So, how to safely recover from this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Denis
>

As I moved from a screen "are you sure you want to select NO drives..."
back to "select drives...", The terminal flashed up briefly.  I had to take
a video to see what it said..."dpkg: warning: version 'dummy-version' has
bad syntax: version number does not start with digit."  During the earlier
stuff there were warnings about virtual box version string having an
invalid character in the version number.

Can I just ^c out of this, or is it already in a bad state?

-Denis
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Re: [PLUG] Desktop machine failures

[Denis Heidtmann]

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Bill Barry  wrote:

> On Jul 13, 2015 2:04 PM, "Denis Heidtmann" 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Bill Barry  wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, this shows the system is using grub legacy and I am pretty sure
> that
> > > is what is causing your boot problems. There is a page here
> > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Upgrading
> > >
> > > describing how to upgrade to grub2.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > Help!  Got through all that, up  through successful chainloading Grub
> 2.
> > Test booted; worked fine.  So then I entered sudo
> > upgrade-from-grub-legacy.  Now I am presented with a screen asking what
> > devices to install Grub on: /dev/sda and /dev/sda1.  I want to select
> > /dev/sda, but I can select neither!  Tab moves the highlight from the [ ]
> > in front of each choice, then to OK, but I cannot make a mark in either
> of
> > the [ ] spaces.  Note that the instruction said I would be presented with
> > this choice earlier in the upgrade process at step 4, but it was not
> > presented.
> >
> > So, how to safely recover from this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -Denis
> > _
>
> You want to choose /dev/sda, not sda1.
> Space bar should choose the one want, but I am not sure.
>
> Bill


Spacebar was it!  I must have tried most of the keys to no avail.  (Why not
any key, or a msg. saying which key to use??!)

I am so glad you remembered.

-Denis
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Re: [PLUG] What CMS to use ?

[Nathan Williams]

yeah, true enough. in my experience tables aren't usually too bad (using
the | formatting instead of raw html), but some of the formatting (e.g.
code snippets) can be a little rough if you use straight jekyll without any
plugins. if you use a turbo-charged system on top like octopress or
something, it comes pre-baked with a lot of plugins that help take the pain
out of the formatting (or just let you embed a gist url). usually still not
perfect, but i'd say enough to put it on par with wordpress or one of the
other systems, which in my experience also have tons of problems in that
particular area.


On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 2:34 PM Louis Kowolowski 
wrote:

> I’m partial to that as well, but I also know that they can be a PITA
> sometimes, depending on how you want to format your documents. I’ve gone
> many rounds creating tables in rst and md and its absolutely horrible.
>
>
> > On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:01 PM, Nathan Williams 
> wrote:
> >
> > if you can get away with it, i'd suggest a static site generator like
> > middleman or jekyll. much easier to host and operate, and way fewer
> > security considerations.
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 1:46 PM Rich Shepard 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, Louis Kowolowski wrote:
> >>
> >>> You may want to investigate some static site generators, and, to be
> fair
> >>> in comparisons, check out things like wordpress, drupal, etc
> >>
> >>   Some time last year there were reports of a wordpress vulnerability
> that
> >> was being exploited; probably fixed by now.
> >>
> >>> Pick the one that looks like it will do what you want and be the least
> >>> amount of effort to maintain going forward (this could be either on the
> >>> server side, or the client side. for example upgrading pkgs on a
> regular
> >>> basis may not be something you want to do. you may decide you want to
> be
> >>> able to manage content via the browser. etc.)
> >>
> >>   If the ISP hosts the software Pete needs only provide the content.
> >>
> >> Rich
> >> ___
> >> PLUG mailing list
> >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
> >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >>
> > ___
> > PLUG mailing list
> > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
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>
> --
> Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org
> 
> Cryptomonkeys:
> http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ 
>
> Making life more interesting for people since 1977
>
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Re: [PLUG] What CMS to use ?

[Louis Kowolowski]

I haven’t looked at jekyll in probably 2 years. I’m been playing a bit with 
pelican and I end up with something like:

-- 
  **Exporting a client profile/bundle**
 - -
  -   Remote Access Server: TCP   [![OpenVPN TCP Viscosity Client Export 
1](/images/thumb.pfsense-and-openvpn-OpenVPN-TCP-Client-Export-01.jpg)](/images/pfsense-and-openvpn-OpenVPN-TCP-Client-Export-01.jpg)
  -   Host name resolution: IP
  -   Verify Server CN: Automatic
  -   Random Local Port: Checked
 -- 

This is supposedly the easy way to do it. The other way is something like:

+++
| col 1   | col 2   |
++———-+
| row 2  | row 2|
++——— +

And, as you might imagine, this is not particularly condusive to getting any 
work done, because you’re constantly focusing on making sure things line up 
properly so they will render.

I don’t know what the solution is (since both rST and Markdown both share this 
awesomeness) but it would be really nice to get something that lets people get 
back to focusing on the content instead of the presentation (that all gets 
interpreted and re-rendered anyway)


> On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:57 PM, Nathan Williams  wrote:
> 
> yeah, true enough. in my experience tables aren't usually too bad (using
> the | formatting instead of raw html), but some of the formatting (e.g.
> code snippets) can be a little rough if you use straight jekyll without any
> plugins. if you use a turbo-charged system on top like octopress or
> something, it comes pre-baked with a lot of plugins that help take the pain
> out of the formatting (or just let you embed a gist url). usually still not
> perfect, but i'd say enough to put it on par with wordpress or one of the
> other systems, which in my experience also have tons of problems in that
> particular area.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 2:34 PM Louis Kowolowski 
> wrote:
> 
>> I’m partial to that as well, but I also know that they can be a PITA
>> sometimes, depending on how you want to format your documents. I’ve gone
>> many rounds creating tables in rst and md and its absolutely horrible.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:01 PM, Nathan Williams 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> if you can get away with it, i'd suggest a static site generator like
>>> middleman or jekyll. much easier to host and operate, and way fewer
>>> security considerations.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 1:46 PM Rich Shepard 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, Louis Kowolowski wrote:
 
> You may want to investigate some static site generators, and, to be
>> fair
> in comparisons, check out things like wordpress, drupal, etc
 
  Some time last year there were reports of a wordpress vulnerability
>> that
 was being exploited; probably fixed by now.
 
> Pick the one that looks like it will do what you want and be the least
> amount of effort to maintain going forward (this could be either on the
> server side, or the client side. for example upgrading pkgs on a
>> regular
> basis may not be something you want to do. you may decide you want to
>> be
> able to manage content via the browser. etc.)
 
  If the ISP hosts the software Pete needs only provide the content.
 
 Rich
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>> 
>> --
>> Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org
>> 
>> Cryptomonkeys:
>> http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ 
>> 
>> Making life more interesting for people since 1977
>> 
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--
Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org
Cryptomonkeys:   http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/

Making life more interesting for people since 1977

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[PLUG] OSCON, free expo hall pass code?

[Keith Lofstrom]

Did we get a user code for free EXPO hall passes at OSCON this
year?  I can pay the $50 if needed, but that is two or three
used technical books.

Keith

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Re: [PLUG] OSCON, free expo hall pass code?

[John Jason Jordan]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 22:19:36 -0700
Keith Lofstrom  dijo:

>Did we get a user code for free EXPO hall passes at OSCON this
>year?  I can pay the $50 if needed, but that is two or three
>used technical books.

PLUGEXPO
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Re: [PLUG] OSCON, free expo hall pass code?

[Keith Lofstrom]

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:29:32PM -0700, n...@aliens.la wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:41:00PM -0700, John Jason Jordan wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:52:29PM -0700, Galen Seitz wrote:

> PLUGEXPO

Thank you so much.  PLUG has so many helpful people,
it makes me proud to be associated with you all.

Keith

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