Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2016, John Jason Jordan wrote:

> For my next exercise I am going to see if I can set up rsync to keep the
> contents of my external USB 3.0 drive synced with the Synology. I have
> never figured out rsync, so I am going to start a new thread.

John,

   Probably the only rsync options you need are -avz (archive, verbose,
compress the transfer). That's what I use for my daily dirvish backups and
when synchronizing subdirectories on my laptop with those on my workstation.

   Many years ago Paul Heinlein taught me to be very careful of the one
potential gotcha': how the destination directory is specified. It's well
explained in the man page, but you gotta' pay attention while reading it.
Using the man page examples:

rsync -avz *.c foo:src/

This would transfer all files matching the pattern *.c from the
current directory to the directory src on the machine foo. If any of
the files already exist on the remote system then the rsync
remote-update protocol is used to update the file by sending only the
differences.

   This is most likely what you want to specify in your shell script. In your
case it might be something like

rsync -avz /path/to/source/directory :/path/to/destination/

   Terminating slash required.

   If, for example, you're using your NAS partition as the source and your
workstation as the destination and use

rsync -avz foo:src/bar /data/tmp
or
rwync -avz :/path/to/source /path/to/destination

your destination will contain the files in /path/to/destination/source

Happy transferring,

Rich


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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Tomas Kuchta]

I cannot remember what Synology model you have:
a) If you have ARM based model - than the file system is most likely ext4
b) if you have one of the + models with intel CPU then it is likely btrfs

On the client/PC you are using it as network files system SMB/NFS depending how 
you mounted it. So the actual HDD file system is not visible to you. If you'd 
start exporting iSCSI devices then you can format them as you wish on client, 
due to them being block devices.

If you put in the second drive and use it for redundancy (RAID 1) than the 
HDDs should be a) LVM raid volume b) btrfs raid volume.

Tomas 


On Friday, July 08, 2016 06:03:11 PM John Jason Jordan wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 15:47:45 -0700
> 
> John Jason Jordan  dijo:
> >I'm probably pretty close, but need help figuring out the rest.
> 
> Success! I was missing the Sharing stuff in the web-based setup utility.
> 
> >Also, I have no idea how the disk is formatted, or even if it is
> >formatted at all.
> 
> I'd still like to know this, and before I start putting stuff on the
> drive. I know that it is formatted because I can now drag and drop
> files to it. I assume that Western Digital shipped the drive
> unformatted, so that means that the Synology setup utility must have
> formatted it. I pored through everything in the Setup utility looking
> for what filesystem it used, but without success. I did find disk
> information, including size, S.M.A.R.T. information, usage, and even
> the WD serial number, but not a word about the filesystem. Any
> suggestions, short of taking the disk out of the Synology and attaching
> it to my desktop computer where I can use Gparted or something?
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[John Jason Jordan]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:18:06 -0700
wes  dijo:

>> so that means that the Synology setup utility must have
>> formatted it.

>This may or may not be the case. If it did, it probably used some
>Linuxy filesystem. Either way, it is unlikely that you will be able to
>affect its decision; it probably only supports 1 filesystem, whatever
>that may be. It doesn't matter, either, as your interaction with it
>does not involve interacting with the file system. You interact with
>its network share, it takes care of the rest.

I finally found the answer, buried several layers deep in the DSM
utility. Your guess was right, it is ext4. I was only concerned because
I have a lot of files over 4GB in size, so if it was something like
FAT32 I would have issues.

For my next exercise I am going to see if I can set up rsync to keep
the contents of my external USB 3.0 drive synced with the Synology. I
have never figured out rsync, so I am going to start a new thread.
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[wes]

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 6:03 PM, John Jason Jordan 
wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 15:47:45 -0700
> John Jason Jordan  dijo:
>
> >I'm probably pretty close, but need help figuring out the rest.
>
> Success! I was missing the Sharing stuff in the web-based setup utility.
>
> >Also, I have no idea how the disk is formatted, or even if it is
> >formatted at all.
>
> I'd still like to know this, and before I start putting stuff on the
> drive. I know that it is formatted because I can now drag and drop
> files to it. I assume that Western Digital shipped the drive
> unformatted,


I would not assume this. Most drives are shipped formatted NTFS these days
(formerly FAT32).


> so that means that the Synology setup utility must have
> formatted it.


This may or may not be the case. If it did, it probably used some Linuxy
filesystem. Either way, it is unlikely that you will be able to affect its
decision; it probably only supports 1 filesystem, whatever that may be. It
doesn't matter, either, as your interaction with it does not involve
interacting with the file system. You interact with its network share, it
takes care of the rest.


> I pored through everything in the Setup utility looking
> for what filesystem it used,
> ...
> not a word about the filesystem. Any
> suggestions, short of taking the disk out of the Synology and attaching
> it to my desktop computer where I can use Gparted or something?
>
>
I believe the Synology probably supports a command line interface via SSH.
There are probably options in the setup GUI to control this behavior. Then
you can get access to more information and more options than the friendly
GUI would offer.

-wes
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[John Jason Jordan]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 15:47:45 -0700
John Jason Jordan  dijo:
 
>I'm probably pretty close, but need help figuring out the rest.

Success! I was missing the Sharing stuff in the web-based setup utility.

>Also, I have no idea how the disk is formatted, or even if it is
>formatted at all. 

I'd still like to know this, and before I start putting stuff on the
drive. I know that it is formatted because I can now drag and drop
files to it. I assume that Western Digital shipped the drive
unformatted, so that means that the Synology setup utility must have
formatted it. I pored through everything in the Setup utility looking
for what filesystem it used, but without success. I did find disk
information, including size, S.M.A.R.T. information, usage, and even
the WD serial number, but not a word about the filesystem. Any
suggestions, short of taking the disk out of the Synology and attaching
it to my desktop computer where I can use Gparted or something?
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[John Jason Jordan]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:38:47 -0700
wes  dijo:

>> Whichever of these is the easiest is the one I want. :)
>>
>> Ideally the contents of the drive would be visible in a Thunar window
>> so I can just drag and drop files the same as I do with my current
>> USB 3.0 external drive. It would make my life a lot easier if I
>> don't have to access the drive from a separate FTP program or web
>> browser.

>This is exactly how SMB works. Thunar probably has a "connect to
>another computer" or similarly-worded option somewhere. This is what
>you'll use the first time. Then you can create a shortcut on your
>desktop and just not worry about it any more. At least, not til your
>router assigns the device a new IP address.

The Red Pro drive and the Synology arrove this morning. I installed the
drive, hooked up the power and ethernet and all seems well, except for
connectivity. 

The Netgear R6250 sees it and assigned it 192.168.0.101. The Synology
has a power light and four green lights - Disk 1, Disk 2, LAN and
Status. The LAN light is blinking and the others are solid, except for
Disk 2, since I installed only one 6TB disk.

The Synology came with a single printed sheet for instructions. Brief,
but adequate to get it put together. At the end it says to go to
http://findsynology.com, which brings up a web-based configuration
utility. I got through it OK (enabled SMB and NSF, not the others), but
must have missed a step, since I can't figure out how to put files on
it. 

Thunar displays a panel on the left which shows devices. If a device is
not yet mounted it appears grayed out. The Synology does not appear at
all. Poking around in Thunar I found Go > Browse Network, which
displays DISKSTATION, R6250, Synology, and Windows Network. None has
the folder icon; they look like text files, and all are 0 bytes. I
tried clicking on them and got a 'permission denied' message.
Right-clicking on Properties I see that they are owned by root:root.

I'm probably pretty close, but need help figuring out the rest.

Also, I have no idea how the disk is formatted, or even if it is
formatted at all. 
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[John Jason Jordan]

On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 21:04:39 -0700
John Jason Jordan  dijo:

>I need a NAS system which includes a two-bay enclosure capable of
>holding two 6TB drives, and I want to start out with just one 6TB
>drive. 

Thanks again to all for the help and suggestions. Just now I placed an
order with Amazon for the Synology DS216j ($170) and one WD Red Pro
drive WD6002FFWX ($285). I crossed my fingers as I clicked on the
Confirm Purchase button. 
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Tomas Kuchta]

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 12:26:59 PM wes wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 9:49 PM, Tomas Kuchta 
> wrote:
> > On Friday, June 24, 2016 04:21:17 PM wes wrote:
> > > > I do not see too many positives for using SMB on linux, without real
> > 
> > samba
> > 
> > > > user space mount option available.
> > > 
> > > As much as I hesitate to spend any time advocating for M$-originated
> > > technologies, I must say I do not see the challenge here. I mount SMB
> > > shares (from all walks of OS life) in my userspace without any elevated
> > > privileges all the time. When I need them to persist, I write a cronjob
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > > monitor their status and restore them as needed.
> > 
> > Just wondering - Would you share how do you mount SMB in user space?
> > I mean mount not type smb://serverName/dir into some sort of GUI browser.
> 
> mount -t cifs //10.3.14.123/c$ ~/c -ouser=wes
> 
> it then prompts for my password, and mounts the share
> 
> -wes

Thanks, This is not user space mount though - it requires root access and 
imagine having 15 users not sharing passwords. This is the obstacle to using 
SMB on Linux as I see it.

If you put the password to a file and protect it, then there is no user 
separation/access control as all the files on the SMB share will be owned by 
single user. If you figure out a way around mount for a user, and you have two 
different users trying to mount the same thing using different users - then 
you are toast too. If a user forgets to umount then you need root intervention 
too.

I do not want to sound negative about usefulness of SMB on Linux - I was 
really hoped that someone knows how to make it work as per Unix/Linux. :-)

Anyway, let's not hijack this post to SMB bashing.
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Tomas Kuchta]

Is this linux forum? Did I miss something?

On Friday, June 24, 2016 11:20:26 PM r...@dimstar.net wrote:
> > On Jun 24, 2016, at 9:49 PM, Tomas Kuchta 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Just wondering - Would you share how do you mount SMB in user space?
> > I mean mount not type smb://serverName/dir into some sort of GUI browser
> 
> But that is exactly how you mount in Windows. Then you assign a drive
> letter, and poof, it's mounted. This can be either in a file explorer or
> work alike or at a command prompt.
> 
> On OS X, one opens the finder, an navigates to the /Volumes/DriveName, and
> the drive was auto mounted for me...
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Michael Dexter]

On 6/25/16 4:41 PM, Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 03:47:18PM -0500, Louis Kowolowski wrote:
>>> Regarding XFS, why would you need ways to zero out data? I
>>> thought the whole point was to keep the data…isn’t that why we’re
>>> storing it? I mean…srsly.
> To prevent those that should have access to what is private to
> getting at it.

Encrypt.

Unless you mean the nulling-out of files:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=xfs%20null%20files

(I love the solved, not solved nature of it.)

Michael
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Louis Kowolowski]

On Jun 25, 2016, at 6:41 PM, Michael Rasmussen  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 03:47:18PM -0500, Louis Kowolowski wrote:
>> Regarding XFS, why would you need ways to zero out data? I thought the whole 
>> point was to keep the data…isn’t that why we’re storing it? I mean…srsly.
> 
> To prevent those that should have access to what is private to getting at it.
> 
As in, a way that other filesystems don’t need to offer? or because you can’t 
write directly to the underlying devices (is this disallowed in Linux now)? 
Lastly, why does it need to be ‘ways’ instead of ‘a way’? I’m not asking a 
security/privacy question. I’m familiar with the issues surrounding the 
needs/desires of encrypting/wiping disks. This seems more like a architectural 
question. Why they felt the need to provide more than one way of zeroing out 
the data, via calls within the filesystem (with associated tools).

--
Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org 

Cryptomonkeys:   http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ 


Making life more interesting for people since 1977

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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Michael Rasmussen]

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 03:47:18PM -0500, Louis Kowolowski wrote:
> Regarding XFS, why would you need ways to zero out data? I thought the whole 
> point was to keep the data…isn’t that why we’re storing it? I mean…srsly.

To prevent those that should have access to what is private to getting at it.

-- 
  Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity
Only dogs like bones.
~ http://someoneoncetoldme.com/gallery/19122007
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Louis Kowolowski]

On Jun 24, 2016, at 12:41 AM, Michael Dexter  wrote:
> 
> On 6/22/16 9:52 AM, Vedanta Teacher wrote:
>> This may or may not help... but ixsystems sells a FreeNAS Mimi
>> with 4 bays for $999 @ https://www.ixsystems.com/freenas-mini/
>> I've never used the FreeNAS OS myself .
> 
> Well, some of us have. In fact, I have been doing 3+ years of FreeNAS 
> support. Love or hate FreeNAS, it's the OpenZFS you want:
> 
> https://www.ixsystems.com/blog/openzfs-vs-the-competition/
> 
> Nothing comes close, and I base that statement on extensive research, 
> though I don't fully know what EMC does under the hood because it's 
> proprietary. No, not Btrfs. They borked the volume manager, have space 
> accounting issues and still think in terms of say, the fstab and fsck. 
> My favorite: Forget to tell Btrfs your data is compressed etc. and it 
> appears corrupt, until you remember you have to do that kind of thing 
> manually. XFS? Search for "XFS null files". They found ways to 
> (repeatedly) zero-out data in case of a panic, even with READ-ONLY 
> MOUNTS! How did they pull that off?
> 
> Anyway, watch for FreeNAS 10 and while you'll probably say the $999 plus 
> disks Mini is expensive, that's a solid piece of hardware for protecting 
> your data. ECC RAM, etc.
> 
++

I’ve been using FreeNAS for close to 10yrs now. Don’t want to use anything else.

I haven’t looked at the VNX stuff. Clarrion was running a stripped down version 
of Windows. Isilon of course is FreeBSD based. Ditto with Netapp.

Regarding XFS, why would you need ways to zero out data? I thought the whole 
point was to keep the data…isn’t that why we’re storing it? I mean…srsly.

--
Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org 

Cryptomonkeys:   http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ 


Making life more interesting for people since 1977

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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[wes]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 9:49 PM, Tomas Kuchta 
wrote:

>
>
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 04:21:17 PM wes wrote:
> > > I do not see too many positives for using SMB on linux, without real
> samba
> > > user space mount option available.
> >
> > As much as I hesitate to spend any time advocating for M$-originated
> > technologies, I must say I do not see the challenge here. I mount SMB
> > shares (from all walks of OS life) in my userspace without any elevated
> > privileges all the time. When I need them to persist, I write a cronjob
> to
> > monitor their status and restore them as needed.
>
> Just wondering - Would you share how do you mount SMB in user space?
> I mean mount not type smb://serverName/dir into some sort of GUI browser.
>
>
mount -t cifs //10.3.14.123/c$ ~/c -ouser=wes

it then prompts for my password, and mounts the share

-wes
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[r...@dimstar.net]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 9:49 PM, Tomas Kuchta  
> wrote:
> 
> Just wondering - Would you share how do you mount SMB in user space?
> I mean mount not type smb://serverName/dir into some sort of GUI browser

But that is exactly how you mount in Windows. Then you assign a drive letter, 
and poof, it's mounted. This can be either in a file explorer or work alike or 
at a command prompt. 

On OS X, one opens the finder, an navigates to the /Volumes/DriveName, and the 
drive was auto mounted for me...
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Tomas Kuchta]

On Friday, June 24, 2016 04:21:17 PM wes wrote:
> > I do not see too many positives for using SMB on linux, without real samba
> > user space mount option available.
> 
> As much as I hesitate to spend any time advocating for M$-originated
> technologies, I must say I do not see the challenge here. I mount SMB
> shares (from all walks of OS life) in my userspace without any elevated
> privileges all the time. When I need them to persist, I write a cronjob to
> monitor their status and restore them as needed.

Just wondering - Would you share how do you mount SMB in user space?
I mean mount not type smb://serverName/dir into some sort of GUI browser.

Thanks, T

> 
> If I had a truly enterprise class problem to solve, I would go to the extra
> effort of getting NFS to work. Then, it usually remains working for the
> remainder of the life of the universe.
> 
> -wes
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[alan]

>>
>>
>>
>> I do not see too many positives for using SMB on linux, without real
>> samba
>> user space mount option available.
>>
>>
> As much as I hesitate to spend any time advocating for M$-originated
> technologies, I must say I do not see the challenge here. I mount SMB
> shares (from all walks of OS life) in my userspace without any elevated
> privileges all the time. When I need them to persist, I write a cronjob to
> monitor their status and restore them as needed.
>
> If I had a truly enterprise class problem to solve, I would go to the
> extra
> effort of getting NFS to work. Then, it usually remains working for the
> remainder of the life of the universe.

My only concern would be making sure the underlying file system was case
sensitive and supported the proper file system extensions. (Such as
SE_LINUX labels.)

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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[wes]

>
>
>
> I do not see too many positives for using SMB on linux, without real samba
> user space mount option available.
>
>
As much as I hesitate to spend any time advocating for M$-originated
technologies, I must say I do not see the challenge here. I mount SMB
shares (from all walks of OS life) in my userspace without any elevated
privileges all the time. When I need them to persist, I write a cronjob to
monitor their status and restore them as needed.

If I had a truly enterprise class problem to solve, I would go to the extra
effort of getting NFS to work. Then, it usually remains working for the
remainder of the life of the universe.

-wes
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Tomas Kuchta]

On Friday, June 24, 2016 02:52:10 PM John Jason Jordan wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:38:47 -0700
> 
> wes  dijo:
> >On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 12:25 PM, John Jason Jordan
> >
> > wrote:
> >> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:23:02 -0700
> >> 
> >> wes  dijo:
> >> >Most NAS devices support multiple protocols. NFS is relatively rare
> >> >these days. I would expect it to support SMB (Windows-style file
> >> >sharing) which is supported fairly ubiquitously.
> >> >
> >> >From the Synology description/features sheet:
> >> The Most Compatible Sharing
> >> Enjoy seamless files sharing across Windows, Mac, and Linux
> >> platforms as DS216j offers comprehensive network protocol
> >> support including FTP, SMB2, AFP, NFS and WebDAV.
> >> 
> >> Whichever of these is the easiest is the one I want. :)
> >> 
> >> Ideally the contents of the drive would be visible in a Thunar window
> >> so I can just drag and drop files the same as I do with my current
> >> USB 3.0 external drive. It would make my life a lot easier if I
> >> don't have to access the drive from a separate FTP program or web
> >> browser.
> >
> >This is exactly how SMB works. Thunar probably has a "connect to
> >another computer" or similarly-worded option somewhere. This is what
> >you'll use the first time. Then you can create a shortcut on your
> >desktop and just not worry about it any more. At least, not til your
> >router assigns the device a new IP address.
> 
> Assuming the Synology NAS enclosure has a Mac address or some other
> way that my router can identify it, I can just assign it an IP address
> in the router. I have already done that for all the computers, printers,
> and other paraphernalia on my home ethernet. Each device also has a
> label on it displaying its IP address. I discovered a long time ago
> that labels are more reliable than the mysterious functions of my
> hippocampus.
> 
> >From my limited experience with NFS, that is also how it is supposed to
> 
> work, except I could never get it fully working. The problem was
> getting my desktop computer to mount an external USB drive connected to
> the laptop. I could mount /media/jjj on the laptop, but nothing
> further. Considering my failure with NFS, I'm ready to try SMB2.

I smell what might be your NFS problem:

On the Server:
You cannot export "double" mount with NFS v3 or v4 anymore and you need to use 
NFS name space correctly. What you need to do is to exprort '/' or '/media' 
which exist in your '/' mount and then also export '/media/jjj' separately.

On the Client:
You mount your /media/jjj and you should be good.

Words of wisdom:
Sharing USB drive over NFS or SMB is not really great idea unless you have the 
drive and its connectivity welded together. It is data loss disaster waiting 
to happen unless you are really good at being 150% right at unmounting the 
NFS/SMB shares everywhere and also unmounting that USB drive before unplugging 
it. One mistake and you could really be sorry, even if you make sure NOT to 
use async mode.

That being said - you new NAS will have the drive inside, so I guess your 
'double mount' export problem should not exist anymore.

For all the SMB lovers:
How do you intend to share/mount it in multi-user setup?
  a) If you mount it for everyone as root, then you end up with all files being 
owned by single user = no access control.
  b) If you do not mount it, then you have to hand out root/sudo access to 
everyone to be able to mount the SMB share.
  c) If you work around through gui smd:// clients, then you have to make 
a local file copy before editing a file ... and other nasties.

I do not see too many positives for using SMB on linux, without real samba 
user space mount option available.



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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[wes]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:52 PM, John Jason Jordan 
wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:38:47 -0700
> wes  dijo:
>
> >On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 12:25 PM, John Jason Jordan
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:23:02 -0700
> >> wes  dijo:
> >>
> >> >Most NAS devices support multiple protocols. NFS is relatively rare
> >> >these days. I would expect it to support SMB (Windows-style file
> >> >sharing) which is supported fairly ubiquitously.
> >>
> >> >From the Synology description/features sheet:
> >>
> >> The Most Compatible Sharing
> >> Enjoy seamless files sharing across Windows, Mac, and Linux
> >> platforms as DS216j offers comprehensive network protocol
> >> support including FTP, SMB2, AFP, NFS and WebDAV.
> >>
> >> Whichever of these is the easiest is the one I want. :)
> >>
> >> Ideally the contents of the drive would be visible in a Thunar window
> >> so I can just drag and drop files the same as I do with my current
> >> USB 3.0 external drive. It would make my life a lot easier if I
> >> don't have to access the drive from a separate FTP program or web
> >> browser.
>
> >This is exactly how SMB works. Thunar probably has a "connect to
> >another computer" or similarly-worded option somewhere. This is what
> >you'll use the first time. Then you can create a shortcut on your
> >desktop and just not worry about it any more. At least, not til your
> >router assigns the device a new IP address.
>
> Assuming the Synology NAS enclosure has a Mac address or some other
> way that my router can identify it, I can just assign it an IP address
> in the router. I have already done that for all the computers, printers,
> and other paraphernalia on my home ethernet. Each device also has a
> label on it displaying its IP address. I discovered a long time ago
> that labels are more reliable than the mysterious functions of my
> hippocampus.
>

Everything that connects to a network has a MAC address.


>
> >From my limited experience with NFS, that is also how it is supposed to
> work, except I could never get it fully working. The problem was
> getting my desktop computer to mount an external USB drive connected to
> the laptop. I could mount /media/jjj on the laptop, but nothing
> further. Considering my failure with NFS, I'm ready to try SMB2.
>
>
No, NFS is WAY harder to get working than SMB. It's the old trade-off,
hard-to-setup vs reliable. NFS swings left, SMB swings right.

I should think of a better word to use in this context than "swing". I'll
think about that later.

-wes
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[John Jason Jordan]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:38:47 -0700
wes  dijo:

>On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 12:25 PM, John Jason Jordan
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:23:02 -0700
>> wes  dijo:
>>
>> >Most NAS devices support multiple protocols. NFS is relatively rare
>> >these days. I would expect it to support SMB (Windows-style file
>> >sharing) which is supported fairly ubiquitously.
>>
>> >From the Synology description/features sheet:
>>
>> The Most Compatible Sharing
>> Enjoy seamless files sharing across Windows, Mac, and Linux
>> platforms as DS216j offers comprehensive network protocol
>> support including FTP, SMB2, AFP, NFS and WebDAV.
>>
>> Whichever of these is the easiest is the one I want. :)
>>
>> Ideally the contents of the drive would be visible in a Thunar window
>> so I can just drag and drop files the same as I do with my current
>> USB 3.0 external drive. It would make my life a lot easier if I
>> don't have to access the drive from a separate FTP program or web
>> browser.

>This is exactly how SMB works. Thunar probably has a "connect to
>another computer" or similarly-worded option somewhere. This is what
>you'll use the first time. Then you can create a shortcut on your
>desktop and just not worry about it any more. At least, not til your
>router assigns the device a new IP address.

Assuming the Synology NAS enclosure has a Mac address or some other
way that my router can identify it, I can just assign it an IP address
in the router. I have already done that for all the computers, printers,
and other paraphernalia on my home ethernet. Each device also has a
label on it displaying its IP address. I discovered a long time ago
that labels are more reliable than the mysterious functions of my
hippocampus.

>From my limited experience with NFS, that is also how it is supposed to
work, except I could never get it fully working. The problem was
getting my desktop computer to mount an external USB drive connected to
the laptop. I could mount /media/jjj on the laptop, but nothing
further. Considering my failure with NFS, I'm ready to try SMB2.
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[wes]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 12:25 PM, John Jason Jordan 
wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:23:02 -0700
> wes  dijo:
>
> >Most NAS devices support multiple protocols. NFS is relatively rare
> >these days. I would expect it to support SMB (Windows-style file
> >sharing) which is supported fairly ubiquitously.
>
> >From the Synology description/features sheet:
>
> The Most Compatible Sharing
> Enjoy seamless files sharing across Windows, Mac, and Linux
> platforms as DS216j offers comprehensive network protocol
> support including FTP, SMB2, AFP, NFS and WebDAV.
>
> Whichever of these is the easiest is the one I want. :)
>
> Ideally the contents of the drive would be visible in a Thunar window
> so I can just drag and drop files the same as I do with my current USB
> 3.0 external drive. It would make my life a lot easier if I don't have
> to access the drive from a separate FTP program or web browser.
>
>
This is exactly how SMB works. Thunar probably has a "connect to another
computer" or similarly-worded option somewhere. This is what you'll use the
first time. Then you can create a shortcut on your desktop and just not
worry about it any more. At least, not til your router assigns the device a
new IP address.

-wes
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, John Jason Jordan wrote:

> Ideally the contents of the drive would be visible in a Thunar window so I
> can just drag and drop files the same as I do with my current USB 3.0
> external drive. It would make my life a lot easier if I don't have to
> access the drive from a separate FTP program or web browser.

John,

   Unless NFS has changed since I had it set up here, once configured the
partitions look like they're local and you can cd to them or access files as
you would on your local system.

Rich

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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[John Jason Jordan]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:23:02 -0700
wes  dijo:

>Most NAS devices support multiple protocols. NFS is relatively rare
>these days. I would expect it to support SMB (Windows-style file
>sharing) which is supported fairly ubiquitously.

>From the Synology description/features sheet:

The Most Compatible Sharing
Enjoy seamless files sharing across Windows, Mac, and Linux
platforms as DS216j offers comprehensive network protocol
support including FTP, SMB2, AFP, NFS and WebDAV.

Whichever of these is the easiest is the one I want. :)

Ideally the contents of the drive would be visible in a Thunar window
so I can just drag and drop files the same as I do with my current USB
3.0 external drive. It would make my life a lot easier if I don't have
to access the drive from a separate FTP program or web browser.
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Michael Dexter]

On 6/22/16 9:52 AM, Vedanta Teacher wrote:
> This may or may not help... but ixsystems sells a FreeNAS Mimi
> with 4 bays for $999 @ https://www.ixsystems.com/freenas-mini/
> I've never used the FreeNAS OS myself .

Well, some of us have. In fact, I have been doing 3+ years of FreeNAS 
support. Love or hate FreeNAS, it's the OpenZFS you want:

https://www.ixsystems.com/blog/openzfs-vs-the-competition/

Nothing comes close, and I base that statement on extensive research, 
though I don't fully know what EMC does under the hood because it's 
proprietary. No, not Btrfs. They borked the volume manager, have space 
accounting issues and still think in terms of say, the fstab and fsck. 
My favorite: Forget to tell Btrfs your data is compressed etc. and it 
appears corrupt, until you remember you have to do that kind of thing 
manually. XFS? Search for "XFS null files". They found ways to 
(repeatedly) zero-out data in case of a panic, even with READ-ONLY 
MOUNTS! How did they pull that off?

Anyway, watch for FreeNAS 10 and while you'll probably say the $999 plus 
disks Mini is expensive, that's a solid piece of hardware for protecting 
your data. ECC RAM, etc.

Michael
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Tomas Kuchta]

I can highly recommend Synology, DSxxx

I use Synology NAS for about 6 years after switching from Netgear Readynas. 
Compared to what I could build myself and/or Readynas - Synology is faster, 
has more features, quiet, lower power, cheaper and absolutely trouble free.

Having NAS is not free (as in beer), but it saves me a lot of $ over time on 
client storage, allow me to centralize and share storage, makes backup 
possible, and simple. I usually upgrade in about 5 years and keep the old unit 
for critical data backup. I would recommend using redundant setup if you do 
not want to risk loosing data, be it raid1,5 or 6. I use raid 5 in 4 disk 
unit.

I access the data on NAS  by NFS on linux and by CIFS/SMB on Windows. Note 
that using CIFS/SMB shares needs creating local users on the NAS which is then 
best to configure as AD + join your win PCs to it in order to manage all users 
centrally. If you do not use NAS as AD, you will need to synchronize clients-
NAS users manually.
Bonus points: if using local AD for logins you will avoid all this Win 10 
forced upgrade mess completely.

Hope it helps,
Tomas

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 09:04:39 PM John Jason Jordan wrote:
> I need a NAS system which includes a two-bay enclosure capable of
> holding two 6TB drives, and I want to start out with just one 6TB
> drive. From my research so far I have determined that Western
> Digital red drives are the best for this application, so the WD
> WD60EFRX drive is at the top of my list. Suggestions for alternatives
> are welcome.
> 
> The enclosure, however, is a point of major confusion. It's amazing how
> little actual information manufacturers web site give you. I'm sick of
> reading how many photos of my loved ones I can place on the device.
> 
> Since I'm leaning toward the WD drive above, WD enclosures would be
> my first choice. Western Digital sells enclosures, but as far as I can
> tell they only sell them as a unit with drives, i.e., if I buy a two-bay
> enclosure it will come with two drives.
> 
> My major confusions about the enclosures are about all the various
> software features that they come with. My house is wired with Cat6
> ethernet, but all my computers are Linux only. None of the web sites
> tell me much about the software on the enclosure. But maybe I just need
> to plan to nuke the software the enclosure comes with and replace it
> with open source bits.
> 
> I need some education.
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[wes]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 11:50 AM, John Jason Jordan 
wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 08:40:46 -0700
> David Gibbons  dijo:
>
> >I've been very happy with my Synology, replaced a home built Freenas
> >and lost none of the features/functionality I was using in freenas.
> >Less management overhead, lower power usage. A+++ Would buy again.
>
> Thanks to all for the suggestions.
>
> I am currently considering a Synology DS216j with one 6TB Western
> Digital Red Pro drive (WD6002FFWX). The DS216j has two bays so I can
> add a second drive later. The Red Pro drives have a five-year warranty
> as opposed to a three-year warranty for the regular red drives. Both
> Western Digital and Synology list this combination as compatible.
>
> I assume the connection will be by NFS. That bothers me because I once
> spent a month fiddling with my laptop and desktop computers trying to
> get the desktop to mount a USB drive attached to the laptop. I never
> succeeded.
>
>
Most NAS devices support multiple protocols. NFS is relatively rare these
days. I would expect it to support SMB (Windows-style file sharing) which
is supported fairly ubiquitously.

-wes
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[John Jason Jordan]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 08:40:46 -0700
David Gibbons  dijo:

>I've been very happy with my Synology, replaced a home built Freenas
>and lost none of the features/functionality I was using in freenas.
>Less management overhead, lower power usage. A+++ Would buy again.

Thanks to all for the suggestions. 

I am currently considering a Synology DS216j with one 6TB Western
Digital Red Pro drive (WD6002FFWX). The DS216j has two bays so I can
add a second drive later. The Red Pro drives have a five-year warranty
as opposed to a three-year warranty for the regular red drives. Both
Western Digital and Synology list this combination as compatible.

I assume the connection will be by NFS. That bothers me because I once
spent a month fiddling with my laptop and desktop computers trying to
get the desktop to mount a USB drive attached to the laptop. I never
succeeded. 
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[Vedanta Teacher]

This may or may not help... but ixsystems sells a FreeNAS Mimi
with 4 bays for $999 @ https://www.ixsystems.com/freenas-mini/
I've never used the FreeNAS OS myself .

Blessings,
Paul W.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 9:04 PM, John Jason Jordan 
wrote:

> I need a NAS system which includes a two-bay enclosure capable of
> holding two 6TB drives, and I want to start out with just one 6TB
> drive. From my research so far I have determined that Western
> Digital red drives are the best for this application, so the WD
> WD60EFRX drive is at the top of my list. Suggestions for alternatives
> are welcome.
>
> The enclosure, however, is a point of major confusion. It's amazing how
> little actual information manufacturers web site give you. I'm sick of
> reading how many photos of my loved ones I can place on the device.
>
> Since I'm leaning toward the WD drive above, WD enclosures would be
> my first choice. Western Digital sells enclosures, but as far as I can
> tell they only sell them as a unit with drives, i.e., if I buy a two-bay
> enclosure it will come with two drives.
>
> My major confusions about the enclosures are about all the various
> software features that they come with. My house is wired with Cat6
> ethernet, but all my computers are Linux only. None of the web sites
> tell me much about the software on the enclosure. But maybe I just need
> to plan to nuke the software the enclosure comes with and replace it
> with open source bits.
>
> I need some education.
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[David Gibbons]

I've been very happy with my Synology, replaced a home built Freenas and
lost none of the features/functionality I was using in freenas. Less
management overhead, lower power usage. A+++ Would buy again.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 7:03 AM, r...@dimstar.net  wrote:

> Synology  runs Linux under the hood. Im running several of them at several
> different clients.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 21, 2016, at 9:04 PM, John Jason Jordan 
> wrote:
> >
> > I need a NAS system which includes a two-bay enclosure capable of
> > holding two 6TB drives, and I want to start out with just one 6TB
> > drive. From my research so far I have determined that Western
> > Digital red drives are the best for this application, so the WD
> > WD60EFRX drive is at the top of my list. Suggestions for alternatives
> > are welcome.
> >
> > The enclosure, however, is a point of major confusion. It's amazing how
> > little actual information manufacturers web site give you. I'm sick of
> > reading how many photos of my loved ones I can place on the device.
> >
> > Since I'm leaning toward the WD drive above, WD enclosures would be
> > my first choice. Western Digital sells enclosures, but as far as I can
> > tell they only sell them as a unit with drives, i.e., if I buy a two-bay
> > enclosure it will come with two drives.
> >
> > My major confusions about the enclosures are about all the various
> > software features that they come with. My house is wired with Cat6
> > ethernet, but all my computers are Linux only. None of the web sites
> > tell me much about the software on the enclosure. But maybe I just need
> > to plan to nuke the software the enclosure comes with and replace it
> > with open source bits.
> >
> > I need some education.
> > ___
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> > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org
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>
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Re: [PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[r...@dimstar.net]

Synology  runs Linux under the hood. Im running several of them at several 
different clients. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2016, at 9:04 PM, John Jason Jordan  wrote:
> 
> I need a NAS system which includes a two-bay enclosure capable of
> holding two 6TB drives, and I want to start out with just one 6TB
> drive. From my research so far I have determined that Western
> Digital red drives are the best for this application, so the WD
> WD60EFRX drive is at the top of my list. Suggestions for alternatives
> are welcome.
> 
> The enclosure, however, is a point of major confusion. It's amazing how
> little actual information manufacturers web site give you. I'm sick of
> reading how many photos of my loved ones I can place on the device.
> 
> Since I'm leaning toward the WD drive above, WD enclosures would be
> my first choice. Western Digital sells enclosures, but as far as I can
> tell they only sell them as a unit with drives, i.e., if I buy a two-bay
> enclosure it will come with two drives. 
> 
> My major confusions about the enclosures are about all the various
> software features that they come with. My house is wired with Cat6
> ethernet, but all my computers are Linux only. None of the web sites
> tell me much about the software on the enclosure. But maybe I just need
> to plan to nuke the software the enclosure comes with and replace it
> with open source bits. 
> 
> I need some education. 
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[PLUG] NAS System suggestions

[John Jason Jordan]

I need a NAS system which includes a two-bay enclosure capable of
holding two 6TB drives, and I want to start out with just one 6TB
drive. From my research so far I have determined that Western
Digital red drives are the best for this application, so the WD
WD60EFRX drive is at the top of my list. Suggestions for alternatives
are welcome.

The enclosure, however, is a point of major confusion. It's amazing how
little actual information manufacturers web site give you. I'm sick of
reading how many photos of my loved ones I can place on the device.

Since I'm leaning toward the WD drive above, WD enclosures would be
my first choice. Western Digital sells enclosures, but as far as I can
tell they only sell them as a unit with drives, i.e., if I buy a two-bay
enclosure it will come with two drives. 

My major confusions about the enclosures are about all the various
software features that they come with. My house is wired with Cat6
ethernet, but all my computers are Linux only. None of the web sites
tell me much about the software on the enclosure. But maybe I just need
to plan to nuke the software the enclosure comes with and replace it
with open source bits. 

I need some education. 
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