Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Russell Senior]

I am all for exploring weird corners out of curiosity.  But your aversion
to using network devices to do networking is just perverse.

I spent the Thursday-Saturday re-exploring dial-up modem networking. Turns
out I had 5 dial-up modems of various descriptions in my basement. I was at
ToorCamp on Orcas Island in the San Juan Islands in northwestern
Washington, where ShadyTel had set up a temporary telephone system complete
with twisted pair runs to tents and T1 trunk lines between upper and lower
camp, and indecipherable service request forms. Along with some others, I
rediscovered (approximately) how mgetty works. We made and answered dialup
phone calls, we re-remembered Hayes AT commands, and wrote a
rudimentary-but-effective bulletin board system using Bash, the Bourne
Again Shell. We had mixed success with fax, because we hadn't brought a fax
machine with us, and it was difficult to find reliable information on the
internet today that described how to send random images on a file system
from a scannerless fax/modem. It was all great fun. For a few days. Because
we all knew how to do it once, and it had a nostalgic appeal.

When I got home, I gladly returned to ethernet. Because I want to be able
to copy files to accomplish other goals before my brief biological
existence has expired.

If you want to avoid ethernet, it would be super helpful to explain why, so
we can better understand the motivation behind your constraints.

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 9:05 AM, wes  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 6:43 AM, Richard Owlett 
> wrote:
>
> > On 06/24/2018 06:48 PM, wes wrote:
> >
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> I've just ordered one so I can play with it for a bit myself. Perhaps at
> >> the next Linux Clinic, if we have time, we can invite Richard to
> >> participate remotely.
> >>
> >
> > Should be "educational" ;/
> > I know of the existence of software, but have never attempted using.
> > What software is used? Is there a good tutorial for someone coming to it
> > cold?
>
>
> What do you normally use to copy files? Probably something similar to that.
>
>
> >
> >
> >> I also found the following writeups of people doing similar things with
> >> this device:
> >>
> >> http://paulswasteland.blogspot.com/2014/01/getting-prolific-
> >> pl-2501-based-usb-to.html
> >> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/
> >> host-to-host-cable%3B-no-usb0-779573/
> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/516923
> >> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131042
> >>
> >> The last one suggests that it "just works" - the previous 3 are older
> and
> >> talk about requiring a patch to a kernel module to get this cable to
> work.
> >> We don't really know what Richard's particular situation is.
> >>
> >
> > The last one triggered some searches and following a mish-mash of links.
> > I saw multiple mention of "USBNET" but I don't any Debian references
> > although the are Ubuntu related links.
> >
> > When searching Synaptic separately for Avahi and zeroconf I do have
> > several modules installed. Am I missing a particular module. I'm
> currently
> > running Debian 9 but don't have the DVD set. I have a Debian 8 set and
> will
> > do a less minimalist install.
> >
> > I also suspect that I need to use an older version to math what various
> > references were using. I suspect that change of device naming conventions
> > is muddying the waters - I've DVD sets going back to Squeeze.
> >
> >
> You can probably avoid that requirement by configuring the network
> interfaces manually, assuming there is not some missing piece of the puzzle
> here. I haven't yet seen you attempt that and report results (maybe I
> missed it).
>
> -wes
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[wes]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 6:43 AM, Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 06/24/2018 06:48 PM, wes wrote:
>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I've just ordered one so I can play with it for a bit myself. Perhaps at
>> the next Linux Clinic, if we have time, we can invite Richard to
>> participate remotely.
>>
>
> Should be "educational" ;/
> I know of the existence of software, but have never attempted using.
> What software is used? Is there a good tutorial for someone coming to it
> cold?


What do you normally use to copy files? Probably something similar to that.


>
>
>> I also found the following writeups of people doing similar things with
>> this device:
>>
>> http://paulswasteland.blogspot.com/2014/01/getting-prolific-
>> pl-2501-based-usb-to.html
>> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/
>> host-to-host-cable%3B-no-usb0-779573/
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/516923
>> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131042
>>
>> The last one suggests that it "just works" - the previous 3 are older and
>> talk about requiring a patch to a kernel module to get this cable to work.
>> We don't really know what Richard's particular situation is.
>>
>
> The last one triggered some searches and following a mish-mash of links.
> I saw multiple mention of "USBNET" but I don't any Debian references
> although the are Ubuntu related links.
>
> When searching Synaptic separately for Avahi and zeroconf I do have
> several modules installed. Am I missing a particular module. I'm currently
> running Debian 9 but don't have the DVD set. I have a Debian 8 set and will
> do a less minimalist install.
>
> I also suspect that I need to use an older version to math what various
> references were using. I suspect that change of device naming conventions
> is muddying the waters - I've DVD sets going back to Squeeze.
>
>
You can probably avoid that requirement by configuring the network
interfaces manually, assuming there is not some missing piece of the puzzle
here. I haven't yet seen you attempt that and report results (maybe I
missed it).

-wes
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[wes]

Zeroconf, that's what I was thinking of. I thought Avahi was standard on
Debian these days?

Then again, who knows what's actually running out there in the weeds past
Estacada...

-wes

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 5:44 PM, Larry Brigman 
wrote:

> The local 169.254 address is part of zeroconf.  If that package (avahi on
> some distros) isn't loaded or the service is disabled/not running then
> there won't be any autoconfiguration.
> I did see that one of the interfaces was up with link(UP,LOWER_UP) in the
> output.
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:48 PM wes  wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Tyrell Jentink 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > What are you even on about? It's a network device... "Gates and
> Company"
> > > uses a really complicated, error prone piece of crap sync software to
> do
> > a
> > > one-time sync from a system running an old version of Windows to a
> system
> > > running a newer version of Windows... Linux can very very certainly
> > > outperform it... What we can't help you with is what you aren't
> > explaining:
> > >
> >
> > I haven't followed every detail of this thread, so I apologize if the
> > following is a repeat of some earlier post.
> >
> > This is the device he's working with:
> >
> > https://sewelldirect.com/usb2bridgecable
> >
> > http://prolificusa.com/product/pl25a1-hi-speed-usb-
> host-host-bridge-controller/
> > http://www.prolific.com.tw/US/ShowProduct.aspx?pcid=43
> >
> > I've just ordered one so I can play with it for a bit myself. Perhaps at
> > the next Linux Clinic, if we have time, we can invite Richard to
> > participate remotely.
> >
> > I also found the following writeups of people doing similar things with
> > this device:
> >
> >
> > http://paulswasteland.blogspot.com/2014/01/getting-
> prolific-pl-2501-based-usb-to.html
> >
> > https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-
> networking-3/host-to-host-cable%3B-no-usb0-779573/
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/516923
> > https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131042
> >
> > The last one suggests that it "just works" - the previous 3 are older and
> > talk about requiring a patch to a kernel module to get this cable to
> work.
> > We don't really know what Richard's particular situation is.
> >
> > I do realize that network interfaces are created; however the lack of
> > autoconfig and the "state UNKNOWN" worry me. He should at least be
> getting
> > a self-generated 169.254 address.
> >
> > I also realize it can be frustrating when advice is offered to someone
> and
> > they ask the same question again as if you hadn't said anything in the
> > first place. Usually I find in these cases that it comes from the other
> > person misunderstanding the advice. I do this not infrequently, though
> now
> > that I'm familiar with this behavioral quirk, I will admit to it. If this
> > is so frustrating to you that you feel the need to become cross about
> it, I
> > would have to suggest that you decline to reply further. Others are
> likely
> > to take up the baton in your place. This is a group effort, after all.
> >
> > -wes
> > ___
> > PLUG mailing list
> > PLUG@pdxlinux.org
> > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >
> ___
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Larry Brigman]

The local 169.254 address is part of zeroconf.  If that package (avahi on
some distros) isn't loaded or the service is disabled/not running then
there won't be any autoconfiguration.
I did see that one of the interfaces was up with link(UP,LOWER_UP) in the
output.

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:48 PM wes  wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Tyrell Jentink 
> wrote:
>
> > What are you even on about? It's a network device... "Gates and Company"
> > uses a really complicated, error prone piece of crap sync software to do
> a
> > one-time sync from a system running an old version of Windows to a system
> > running a newer version of Windows... Linux can very very certainly
> > outperform it... What we can't help you with is what you aren't
> explaining:
> >
>
> I haven't followed every detail of this thread, so I apologize if the
> following is a repeat of some earlier post.
>
> This is the device he's working with:
>
> https://sewelldirect.com/usb2bridgecable
>
> http://prolificusa.com/product/pl25a1-hi-speed-usb-host-host-bridge-controller/
> http://www.prolific.com.tw/US/ShowProduct.aspx?pcid=43
>
> I've just ordered one so I can play with it for a bit myself. Perhaps at
> the next Linux Clinic, if we have time, we can invite Richard to
> participate remotely.
>
> I also found the following writeups of people doing similar things with
> this device:
>
>
> http://paulswasteland.blogspot.com/2014/01/getting-prolific-pl-2501-based-usb-to.html
>
> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/host-to-host-cable%3B-no-usb0-779573/
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/516923
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131042
>
> The last one suggests that it "just works" - the previous 3 are older and
> talk about requiring a patch to a kernel module to get this cable to work.
> We don't really know what Richard's particular situation is.
>
> I do realize that network interfaces are created; however the lack of
> autoconfig and the "state UNKNOWN" worry me. He should at least be getting
> a self-generated 169.254 address.
>
> I also realize it can be frustrating when advice is offered to someone and
> they ask the same question again as if you hadn't said anything in the
> first place. Usually I find in these cases that it comes from the other
> person misunderstanding the advice. I do this not infrequently, though now
> that I'm familiar with this behavioral quirk, I will admit to it. If this
> is so frustrating to you that you feel the need to become cross about it, I
> would have to suggest that you decline to reply further. Others are likely
> to take up the baton in your place. This is a group effort, after all.
>
> -wes
> ___
> PLUG mailing list
> PLUG@pdxlinux.org
> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[wes]

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Tyrell Jentink  wrote:

> What are you even on about? It's a network device... "Gates and Company"
> uses a really complicated, error prone piece of crap sync software to do a
> one-time sync from a system running an old version of Windows to a system
> running a newer version of Windows... Linux can very very certainly
> outperform it... What we can't help you with is what you aren't explaining:
>

I haven't followed every detail of this thread, so I apologize if the
following is a repeat of some earlier post.

This is the device he's working with:

https://sewelldirect.com/usb2bridgecable
http://prolificusa.com/product/pl25a1-hi-speed-usb-host-host-bridge-controller/
http://www.prolific.com.tw/US/ShowProduct.aspx?pcid=43

I've just ordered one so I can play with it for a bit myself. Perhaps at
the next Linux Clinic, if we have time, we can invite Richard to
participate remotely.

I also found the following writeups of people doing similar things with
this device:

http://paulswasteland.blogspot.com/2014/01/getting-prolific-pl-2501-based-usb-to.html
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/host-to-host-cable%3B-no-usb0-779573/
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/516923
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131042

The last one suggests that it "just works" - the previous 3 are older and
talk about requiring a patch to a kernel module to get this cable to work.
We don't really know what Richard's particular situation is.

I do realize that network interfaces are created; however the lack of
autoconfig and the "state UNKNOWN" worry me. He should at least be getting
a self-generated 169.254 address.

I also realize it can be frustrating when advice is offered to someone and
they ask the same question again as if you hadn't said anything in the
first place. Usually I find in these cases that it comes from the other
person misunderstanding the advice. I do this not infrequently, though now
that I'm familiar with this behavioral quirk, I will admit to it. If this
is so frustrating to you that you feel the need to become cross about it, I
would have to suggest that you decline to reply further. Others are likely
to take up the baton in your place. This is a group effort, after all.

-wes
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Tyrell Jentink]

https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2350138
That forum question addresses the issues at hand very well... You are using
a USB cable that emulates an Ethernet adapter, so switch out device names
accordingly, but there is literally no distinction from the software side.

IF IT WERE ME, I would do the file transfer through SSH/SCP: Install/Enable
SSH on one side, and use scp on the other side... He does offer advice on
the details in the answer above.

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018, 14:56 Chuck Hast  wrote:

> You know, I had this running with one of my cell phones and not
> intentionally,
> I would plug the thing into one of my laptops and it would setup the usual
> connection to move files around, BUT it would also setup a network
> connection,
> trying to use the cellular as another network path out (as if the Ethernet
> and
> WiFi connections did not count) It was such a PITA that one day I got tired
> of
> having to go in and kill it so I went in and killed it for good.
>
> But if you did an ifconfig you saw a network connection with assigned IP
> addys
> and all. I will see if I can get it to do so again, and try to see if I can
> get you
> the info on what it did.
>
> I did NOTHING to the system it did it all, the phone was and AT Android
> phone, a Galaxy S5 rugged.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Richard Owlett 
> wrote:
>
> > On 06/24/2018 10:01 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:
> >
> >> On 06/24/2018 07:24 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 06/23/2018 11:09 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:>
> >>>
>  Similarly for either end of cable plugged in to receptacle 1.
> 
> 
>  richard@debian-jan13:~$ # left end of cable in receptacle 1
>  richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
>  enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo
> 
>  richard@debian-jan13:~$ # right end of cable in receptacle 1
>  richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
>  enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo
> 
> >>>
> >>> I realize this is part learning experience for you, but I don't think
> >>> you necessarily need to be exploring the bowels of the sysfs
> (/sys/...) for
> >>> this.  Please post the output of the 'ip addr' command on both ends.
>  You
> >>> may already have a working connection between the two machines.
> >>>
> >>> galen
> >>>
> >>
> >> Oops.  I meant to send that to the plug list.  Please reply on the list.
> >>
> >>
> > This is ~ 1/2 of what you requested
> > I ran this on my laptop with only cable connected
> > The relevant lines begins "57:"
> >
> > root@debian-jan13:/home/richard# ip addr
> > 1: lo:  mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group
> > default qlen 1
> > link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
> > inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
> >valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> > inet6 ::1/128 scope host
> >valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> > 2: enp0s25:  mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast
> > state DOWN group default qlen 1000
> > link/ether f0:de:f1:0c:d5:db brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> > 57: enp0s26u1u1u1:  mtu 1500 qdisc
> > pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN group default qlen 1000
> > link/ether 52:95:7f:8a:28:57 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> > inet6 fe80::5095:7fff:fe8a:2857/64 scope link
> >
> > This was run on my laptop with nothing but mouse and cable connected.
> > I do not have a flash drive available to report what the desktop saw {via
> > sneaker net}
> >
> > To create context I will quote your post saying:>>> I realize this is
> part
> > learning experience for you, ...
> >
> > This project originally started in order to transfer files between a
> > laptop and a desktop without benefit of flash_drive &/or sneaker_net.
> > I purchased a thingy which claimed to do that in a WindoZe environment.
> >
> > Can Linux not outperform Gates & co?
> >
> > An underlying question is "Why *NOT*"?
> > There is an underlying comment.
> > Debian (Linux in general) has known what to do with absolutely *ANY* USB
> > device used. Why *NOT* this item? ?? ???  :<
> >
> > I cannot see that the "system" lacks info.
> > It needs to be told what to do with it.
> >
> > P.S. I was dealing with "customer"/"tech" support half century ago.
> > *NOT* same industry ;/ But you learn what are useful questions.
> > I'm missing something ;/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > PLUG mailing list
> > PLUG@pdxlinux.org
> > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
> I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
> Ph 4:13 KJV
> Todo lo puedo en Cristo que me fortalece.
> Fil 4:13 RVR1960
> ___
> PLUG mailing list
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>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Chuck Hast]

You know, I had this running with one of my cell phones and not
intentionally,
I would plug the thing into one of my laptops and it would setup the usual
connection to move files around, BUT it would also setup a network
connection,
trying to use the cellular as another network path out (as if the Ethernet
and
WiFi connections did not count) It was such a PITA that one day I got tired
of
having to go in and kill it so I went in and killed it for good.

But if you did an ifconfig you saw a network connection with assigned IP
addys
and all. I will see if I can get it to do so again, and try to see if I can
get you
the info on what it did.

I did NOTHING to the system it did it all, the phone was and AT Android
phone, a Galaxy S5 rugged.



On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 06/24/2018 10:01 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:
>
>> On 06/24/2018 07:24 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/23/2018 11:09 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:>
>>>
 Similarly for either end of cable plugged in to receptacle 1.


 richard@debian-jan13:~$ # left end of cable in receptacle 1
 richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
 enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo

 richard@debian-jan13:~$ # right end of cable in receptacle 1
 richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
 enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo

>>>
>>> I realize this is part learning experience for you, but I don't think
>>> you necessarily need to be exploring the bowels of the sysfs (/sys/...) for
>>> this.  Please post the output of the 'ip addr' command on both ends.   You
>>> may already have a working connection between the two machines.
>>>
>>> galen
>>>
>>
>> Oops.  I meant to send that to the plug list.  Please reply on the list.
>>
>>
> This is ~ 1/2 of what you requested
> I ran this on my laptop with only cable connected
> The relevant lines begins "57:"
>
> root@debian-jan13:/home/richard# ip addr
> 1: lo:  mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group
> default qlen 1
> link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
> inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
>valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> inet6 ::1/128 scope host
>valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> 2: enp0s25:  mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast
> state DOWN group default qlen 1000
> link/ether f0:de:f1:0c:d5:db brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> 57: enp0s26u1u1u1:  mtu 1500 qdisc
> pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN group default qlen 1000
> link/ether 52:95:7f:8a:28:57 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> inet6 fe80::5095:7fff:fe8a:2857/64 scope link
>
> This was run on my laptop with nothing but mouse and cable connected.
> I do not have a flash drive available to report what the desktop saw {via
> sneaker net}
>
> To create context I will quote your post saying:>>> I realize this is part
> learning experience for you, ...
>
> This project originally started in order to transfer files between a
> laptop and a desktop without benefit of flash_drive &/or sneaker_net.
> I purchased a thingy which claimed to do that in a WindoZe environment.
>
> Can Linux not outperform Gates & co?
>
> An underlying question is "Why *NOT*"?
> There is an underlying comment.
> Debian (Linux in general) has known what to do with absolutely *ANY* USB
> device used. Why *NOT* this item? ?? ???  :<
>
> I cannot see that the "system" lacks info.
> It needs to be told what to do with it.
>
> P.S. I was dealing with "customer"/"tech" support half century ago.
> *NOT* same industry ;/ But you learn what are useful questions.
> I'm missing something ;/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> PLUG@pdxlinux.org
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>



-- 

Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Ph 4:13 KJV
Todo lo puedo en Cristo que me fortalece.
Fil 4:13 RVR1960
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Tyrell Jentink]

What are you even on about? It's a network device... "Gates and Company"
uses a really complicated, error prone piece of crap sync software to do a
one-time sync from a system running an old version of Windows to a system
running a newer version of Windows... Linux can very very certainly
outperform it... What we can't help you with is what you aren't explaining:

What are you trying to do?

If the answer is "Kludge this cable I know nothing about into sharing files
from one system to another," the answer appears to be simple, and we have
told you OVER and OVER:

You plug it into two computers.
You configure a static network connection on each side (Exactly like you
would with any network)
Then you share the files with {scp|rsync|Samba|NFS, or any other file
sharing technology you so choose),

And your done.

What are you asking?

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018, 14:10 Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 06/24/2018 10:01 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:
> > On 06/24/2018 07:24 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:
> >> On 06/23/2018 11:09 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:>
> >>> Similarly for either end of cable plugged in to receptacle 1.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> richard@debian-jan13:~$ # left end of cable in receptacle 1
> >>> richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
> >>> enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo
> >>>
> >>> richard@debian-jan13:~$ # right end of cable in receptacle 1
> >>> richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
> >>> enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo
> >>
> >> I realize this is part learning experience for you, but I don't think
> >> you necessarily need to be exploring the bowels of the sysfs
> >> (/sys/...) for this.  Please post the output of the 'ip addr' command
> >> on both ends.   You may already have a working connection between the
> >> two machines.
> >>
> >> galen
> >
> > Oops.  I meant to send that to the plug list.  Please reply on the list.
> >
>
> This is ~ 1/2 of what you requested
> I ran this on my laptop with only cable connected
> The relevant lines begins "57:"
>
> root@debian-jan13:/home/richard# ip addr
> 1: lo:  mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN
> group default qlen 1
>  link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
>  inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
> valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
>  inet6 ::1/128 scope host
> valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> 2: enp0s25:  mtu 1500 qdisc
> pfifo_fast state DOWN group default qlen 1000
>  link/ether f0:de:f1:0c:d5:db brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> 57: enp0s26u1u1u1:  mtu 1500 qdisc
> pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN group default qlen 1000
>  link/ether 52:95:7f:8a:28:57 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
>  inet6 fe80::5095:7fff:fe8a:2857/64 scope link
>
> This was run on my laptop with nothing but mouse and cable connected.
> I do not have a flash drive available to report what the desktop saw
> {via sneaker net}
>
> To create context I will quote your post saying:>>> I realize this is
> part learning experience for you, ...
>
> This project originally started in order to transfer files between a
> laptop and a desktop without benefit of flash_drive &/or sneaker_net.
> I purchased a thingy which claimed to do that in a WindoZe environment.
>
> Can Linux not outperform Gates & co?
>
> An underlying question is "Why *NOT*"?
> There is an underlying comment.
> Debian (Linux in general) has known what to do with absolutely *ANY* USB
>   device used. Why *NOT* this item? ?? ???  :<
>
> I cannot see that the "system" lacks info.
> It needs to be told what to do with it.
>
> P.S. I was dealing with "customer"/"tech" support half century ago.
> *NOT* same industry ;/ But you learn what are useful questions.
> I'm missing something ;/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/24/2018 10:01 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:

On 06/24/2018 07:24 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:

On 06/23/2018 11:09 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:>

Similarly for either end of cable plugged in to receptacle 1.


richard@debian-jan13:~$ # left end of cable in receptacle 1
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo

richard@debian-jan13:~$ # right end of cable in receptacle 1
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo


I realize this is part learning experience for you, but I don't think 
you necessarily need to be exploring the bowels of the sysfs 
(/sys/...) for this.  Please post the output of the 'ip addr' command 
on both ends.   You may already have a working connection between the 
two machines.


galen


Oops.  I meant to send that to the plug list.  Please reply on the list.



This is ~ 1/2 of what you requested
I ran this on my laptop with only cable connected
The relevant lines begins "57:"

root@debian-jan13:/home/richard# ip addr
1: lo:  mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN 
group default qlen 1

link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
inet6 ::1/128 scope host
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: enp0s25:  mtu 1500 qdisc 
pfifo_fast state DOWN group default qlen 1000

link/ether f0:de:f1:0c:d5:db brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
57: enp0s26u1u1u1:  mtu 1500 qdisc 
pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN group default qlen 1000

link/ether 52:95:7f:8a:28:57 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
inet6 fe80::5095:7fff:fe8a:2857/64 scope link

This was run on my laptop with nothing but mouse and cable connected.
I do not have a flash drive available to report what the desktop saw 
{via sneaker net}


To create context I will quote your post saying:>>> I realize this is 
part learning experience for you, ...


This project originally started in order to transfer files between a 
laptop and a desktop without benefit of flash_drive &/or sneaker_net.

I purchased a thingy which claimed to do that in a WindoZe environment.

Can Linux not outperform Gates & co?

An underlying question is "Why *NOT*"?
There is an underlying comment.
Debian (Linux in general) has known what to do with absolutely *ANY* USB 
 device used. Why *NOT* this item? ?? ???  :<


I cannot see that the "system" lacks info.
It needs to be told what to do with it.

P.S. I was dealing with "customer"/"tech" support half century ago.
*NOT* same industry ;/ But you learn what are useful questions.
I'm missing something ;/








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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/23/2018 12:49 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 06/23/2018 11:35 AM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018, 09:23 Richard Owlett  wrote:


On 06/20/2018 06:40 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 06/19/2018 11:10 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:
  [*SNIP*]

Well, your Prolific PL25A1-based cable isn't just two Ethernet chips
back to back, but it's close.  It uses the same networking framework
as USB to Ethernet adapters.  Here's a bit of info on the driver.
This is as much for Russell as for you.


With both ends of the cable connected, please run the ip addr command
on one of your hosts and post the complete output.


Will be in this afternoon's post.



I'm late.
But the delay has been educational.
Several times, when asked to run command XYZ, the response has been of
the general form "that response was not consistent with what was
previously posted about that command *AND/OR* what was reported for
command ABC".



No... If I understand what you're getting at, that has been addressed, 
and

I was wrong... Everything looked plenty consistent, I just looked too
quickly.

OK, before you continue to get too far off track... Everything is 
perfect.

You have a network interface, dmesg told you it's name.

Now you can configure it like any other network interface. I assume 
you are

still using Debian?


Yes, the current stable release (Stretch)


Here is their relevant documentation:
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration


*ARRRGH*!
I says in part:

As of Stretch, the old network names like eth0, eth1 have gone away
as the device name can change. The new names are similar to these:
enp6s0, enp8s0, enp0s31f6, enp5s0. 

It then ignores the issue and all examples in old style.

These are my commented results for running "ls /sys/class/net/".
Note that the only consistent characters are those indicated by "^".
Obviously there is some magical incantation to use it *no matter* where 
it's plugged in.

I'm frustrated.

richard@debian-jan13:~$ # no wifi connected
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  lo

richard@debian-jan13:~$ # wifi in receptacle 1
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo
  ^^^


richard@debian-jan13:~$ # wifi in receptacle 4
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u4  lo
  ^^^


richard@debian-jan13:~$ # wifi back in 1
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo
  ^^^



Similarly for either end of cable plugged in to receptacle 1.


richard@debian-jan13:~$ # left end of cable in receptacle 1
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo

richard@debian-jan13:~$ # right end of cable in receptacle 1
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo






You SHOULD even be able to do it in NetworkManager... Just set static IP
addresses on both sides.


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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/23/2018 11:35 AM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018, 09:23 Richard Owlett  wrote:


On 06/20/2018 06:40 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 06/19/2018 11:10 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:
  [*SNIP*]

Well, your Prolific PL25A1-based cable isn't just two Ethernet chips
back to back, but it's close.  It uses the same networking framework
as USB to Ethernet adapters.  Here's a bit of info on the driver.
This is as much for Russell as for you.


With both ends of the cable connected, please run the ip addr command
on one of your hosts and post the complete output.


Will be in this afternoon's post.



I'm late.
But the delay has been educational.
Several times, when asked to run command XYZ, the response has been of
the general form "that response was not consistent with what was
previously posted about that command *AND/OR* what was reported for
command ABC".



No... If I understand what you're getting at, that has been addressed, and
I was wrong... Everything looked plenty consistent, I just looked too
quickly.

OK, before you continue to get too far off track... Everything is perfect.
You have a network interface, dmesg told you it's name.

Now you can configure it like any other network interface. I assume you are
still using Debian?


Yes, the current stable release (Stretch)


Here is their relevant documentation:
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration


*ARRRGH*!
I says in part:

As of Stretch, the old network names like eth0, eth1 have gone away
as the device name can change. The new names are similar to these:
enp6s0, enp8s0, enp0s31f6, enp5s0. 

It then ignores the issue and all examples in old style.

These are my commented results for running "ls /sys/class/net/".
Note that the only consistent characters are those indicated by "^".
Obviously there is some magical incantation to use it *no matter* where 
it's plugged in.

I'm frustrated.

richard@debian-jan13:~$ # no wifi connected
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  lo

richard@debian-jan13:~$ # wifi in receptacle 1
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo
 ^^^


richard@debian-jan13:~$ # wifi in receptacle 4
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u4  lo
 ^^^


richard@debian-jan13:~$ # wifi back in 1
richard@debian-jan13:~$  ls /sys/class/net/
enp0s25  enp0s29u1u1u1  lo
 ^^^






You SHOULD even be able to do it in NetworkManager... Just set static IP
addresses on both sides.


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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Tyrell Jentink]

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018, 09:23 Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 06/20/2018 06:40 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > On 06/19/2018 11:10 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:
> >  [*SNIP*]
> >> Well, your Prolific PL25A1-based cable isn't just two Ethernet chips
> >> back to back, but it's close.  It uses the same networking framework
> >> as USB to Ethernet adapters.  Here's a bit of info on the driver.
> >> This is as much for Russell as for you.
> >> 
> >>
> >> With both ends of the cable connected, please run the ip addr command
> >> on one of your hosts and post the complete output.
> >
> > Will be in this afternoon's post.
> >
>
> I'm late.
> But the delay has been educational.
> Several times, when asked to run command XYZ, the response has been of
> the general form "that response was not consistent with what was
> previously posted about that command *AND/OR* what was reported for
> command ABC".
>

No... If I understand what you're getting at, that has been addressed, and
I was wrong... Everything looked plenty consistent, I just looked too
quickly.

OK, before you continue to get too far off track... Everything is perfect.
You have a network interface, dmesg told you it's name.

Now you can configure it like any other network interface. I assume you are
still using Debian? Here is their relevant documentation:
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration

You SHOULD even be able to do it in NetworkManager... Just set static IP
addresses on both sides.
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/19/2018 11:10 AM, Galen Seitz wrote:

On 06/19/2018 08:15 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

Plug in one end of cable
[ 1882.167155] usb 4-1.1.4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using 
ehci-pci
[ 1882.278177] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device found, idVendor=067b, 
idProduct=25a1
[ 1882.278183] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, 
SerialNumber=0

[ 1882.278187] usb 4-1.1.4: Product: USB Transfer Cable
[ 1882.278191] usb 4-1.1.4: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
[ 1882.301597] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at 
usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.4, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1, 
1e:1c:40:06:14:68

[ 1882.301642] usbcore: registered new interface driver plusb
[ 1882.306204] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: renamed from usb0
[ 1882.333434] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u4: link is not 
ready



Plug in other end of cable also
[ 1887.342562] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have 
been dropped
[ 1887.342580] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have 
been dropped
[ 1887.344176] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have 
been dropped
[ 1887.344197] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have 
been dropped
[ 1906.022817] usb 4-1.1.3: new high-speed USB device number 5 using 
ehci-pci
[ 1906.133374] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device found, idVendor=067b, 
idProduct=25a1
[ 1906.133381] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, 
SerialNumber=0

[ 1906.133385] usb 4-1.1.3: Product: USB Transfer Cable
[ 1906.133389] usb 4-1.1.3: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
[ 1906.134334] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at 
usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.3, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1, 
1e:1c:40:06:14:68

[ 1906.152962] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: renamed from usb0
[ 1906.185788] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u3: link is not 
ready
[ 1911.405952] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have 
been dropped
[ 1911.405966] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have 
been dropped
[ 1911.407590] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have 
been dropped
[ 1911.407614] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have 
been dropped

root@debian-jan13:/home/richard#


Well, your Prolific PL25A1-based cable isn't just two Ethernet chips 
back to back, but it's close.  It uses the same networking framework as 
USB to Ethernet adapters.  Here's a bit of info on the driver.  This is 
as much for Russell as for you.



With both ends of the cable connected, please run the ip addr command on 
one of your hosts and post the complete output.


Will be in this afternoon's post.




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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/19/2018 07:43 PM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:

Oh, your right... I looked too quickly this morning. Everything looks fine!

Still more Ethernet than the "No Ethernet" that Richard originally stated
as his mission statement.



I was explicitly trying to avoid using "USB-ethernet adapter", "Ethernet 
cable", "USB-ethernet adapter" KLUDGE due to idiosyncratic requirements.


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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/19/2018 07:07 PM, Russell Senior wrote:

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:02 AM, Tyrell Jentink  wrote:


On the second side, the interface name is enp0s29u1u1u4. On the first side,
the output doesn't make sense, I would try again.



What part doesn't make sense?  It looks like he unplugged and replugged in
a different USB port and the interface name changed accordingly.


The first cable end was not unplugged.
Better formatted output of "dmesg", "lsusb -v", "lsusb -t" coming this 
afternoon.




Fwiw, I am not a fan of "predictable network interface names".  I find
eth0, eth1 ... ethN vastly more predictable, but never mind about that.


Suspect that is related to my confusion - more later.

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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Russell Senior]

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:02 AM, Tyrell Jentink  wrote:

> On the second side, the interface name is enp0s29u1u1u4. On the first side,
> the output doesn't make sense, I would try again.
>

What part doesn't make sense?  It looks like he unplugged and replugged in
a different USB port and the interface name changed accordingly.

Fwiw, I am not a fan of "predictable network interface names".  I find
eth0, eth1 ... ethN vastly more predictable, but never mind about that.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 08:16 Richard Owlett  wrote:

>
> > Plug in one end of cable
> > [ 1882.167155] usb 4-1.1.4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using
> > ehci-pci
> > [ 1882.278177] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device found, idVendor=067b,
> > idProduct=25a1
> > [ 1882.278183] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
> > SerialNumber=0
> > [ 1882.278187] usb 4-1.1.4: Product: USB Transfer Cable
> > [ 1882.278191] usb 4-1.1.4: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
> > [ 1882.301597] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at
> > usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.4, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1,
> > 1e:1c:40:06:14:68
> > [ 1882.301642] usbcore: registered new interface driver plusb
> > [ 1882.306204] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: renamed from usb0
> > [ 1882.333434] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u4: link is not
> ready
> >
> >
> > Plug in other end of cable also
> > [ 1887.342562] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been
> > dropped
> > [ 1887.342580] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been
> > dropped
> > [ 1887.344176] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been
> > dropped
> > [ 1887.344197] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been
> > dropped
> > [ 1906.022817] usb 4-1.1.3: new high-speed USB device number 5 using
> > ehci-pci
> > [ 1906.133374] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device found, idVendor=067b,
> > idProduct=25a1
> > [ 1906.133381] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
> > SerialNumber=0
> > [ 1906.133385] usb 4-1.1.3: Product: USB Transfer Cable
> > [ 1906.133389] usb 4-1.1.3: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
> > [ 1906.134334] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at
> > usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.3, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1,
> > 1e:1c:40:06:14:68
> > [ 1906.152962] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: renamed from usb0
> > [ 1906.185788] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u3: link is not
> ready
> > [ 1911.405952] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been
> > dropped
> > [ 1911.405966] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been
> > dropped
> > [ 1911.407590] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been
> > dropped
> > [ 1911.407614] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been
> > dropped
> > root@debian-jan13:/home/richard#
>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Galen Seitz]

On 06/19/2018 09:02 AM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:

On the second side, the interface name is enp0s29u1u1u4. On the first side,
the output doesn't make sense, I would try again.

BUT, of interest, it looks like the hardware in the middle of the cable
turns out to be two Prolific USB-to-serial adapters back to back in
Ethernet Emulator mode... So, while this WILL work, it was also suggested
already, and failed the "Not ethernet" requirement in the original problem
statement...


Yes, the only place where this is "serial" is on the two USB links to 
the Prolific PL25A1 device.


For those that are interested, I took a quick look at the datasheet. 
The PL25A1 is basically two USB bulk endpoints back to back, with large 
fifos in between.  There's also an 8032 microcontroller.  The 
combination of the usbnet and plusb kernel modules makes this look like 
a simple network interface.



galen
--
Galen Seitz
gal...@seitzassoc.com
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Galen Seitz]

On 06/19/2018 08:15 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

Plug in one end of cable
[ 1882.167155] usb 4-1.1.4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using 
ehci-pci
[ 1882.278177] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device found, idVendor=067b, 
idProduct=25a1
[ 1882.278183] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, 
SerialNumber=0

[ 1882.278187] usb 4-1.1.4: Product: USB Transfer Cable
[ 1882.278191] usb 4-1.1.4: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
[ 1882.301597] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at 
usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.4, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1, 
1e:1c:40:06:14:68

[ 1882.301642] usbcore: registered new interface driver plusb
[ 1882.306204] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: renamed from usb0
[ 1882.333434] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u4: link is not ready


Plug in other end of cable also
[ 1887.342562] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1887.342580] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1887.344176] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1887.344197] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1906.022817] usb 4-1.1.3: new high-speed USB device number 5 using 
ehci-pci
[ 1906.133374] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device found, idVendor=067b, 
idProduct=25a1
[ 1906.133381] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, 
SerialNumber=0

[ 1906.133385] usb 4-1.1.3: Product: USB Transfer Cable
[ 1906.133389] usb 4-1.1.3: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
[ 1906.134334] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at 
usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.3, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1, 
1e:1c:40:06:14:68

[ 1906.152962] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: renamed from usb0
[ 1906.185788] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u3: link is not ready
[ 1911.405952] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1911.405966] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1911.407590] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1911.407614] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped

root@debian-jan13:/home/richard#


Well, your Prolific PL25A1-based cable isn't just two Ethernet chips 
back to back, but it's close.  It uses the same networking framework as 
USB to Ethernet adapters.  Here's a bit of info on the driver.  This is 
as much for Russell as for you.



With both ends of the cable connected, please run the ip addr command on 
one of your hosts and post the complete output.


galen
--
Galen Seitz
gal...@seitzassoc.com
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Tyrell Jentink]

On the second side, the interface name is enp0s29u1u1u4. On the first side,
the output doesn't make sense, I would try again.

BUT, of interest, it looks like the hardware in the middle of the cable
turns out to be two Prolific USB-to-serial adapters back to back in
Ethernet Emulator mode... So, while this WILL work, it was also suggested
already, and failed the "Not ethernet" requirement in the original problem
statement...

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 08:16 Richard Owlett  wrote:

> Plug in one end of cable
> [ 1882.167155] usb 4-1.1.4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using
> ehci-pci
> [ 1882.278177] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device found, idVendor=067b,
> idProduct=25a1
> [ 1882.278183] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
> SerialNumber=0
> [ 1882.278187] usb 4-1.1.4: Product: USB Transfer Cable
> [ 1882.278191] usb 4-1.1.4: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
> [ 1882.301597] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at
> usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.4, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1,
> 1e:1c:40:06:14:68
> [ 1882.301642] usbcore: registered new interface driver plusb
> [ 1882.306204] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: renamed from usb0
> [ 1882.333434] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u4: link is not ready
>
>
> Plug in other end of cable also
> [ 1887.342562] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been
> dropped
> [ 1887.342580] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been
> dropped
> [ 1887.344176] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been
> dropped
> [ 1887.344197] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been
> dropped
> [ 1906.022817] usb 4-1.1.3: new high-speed USB device number 5 using
> ehci-pci
> [ 1906.133374] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device found, idVendor=067b,
> idProduct=25a1
> [ 1906.133381] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
> SerialNumber=0
> [ 1906.133385] usb 4-1.1.3: Product: USB Transfer Cable
> [ 1906.133389] usb 4-1.1.3: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
> [ 1906.134334] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at
> usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.3, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1,
> 1e:1c:40:06:14:68
> [ 1906.152962] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: renamed from usb0
> [ 1906.185788] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u3: link is not ready
> [ 1911.405952] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been
> dropped
> [ 1911.405966] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been
> dropped
> [ 1911.407590] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been
> dropped
> [ 1911.407614] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been
> dropped
> root@debian-jan13:/home/richard#
>
>
>
>
> On 06/19/2018 08:12 AM, Russell Senior wrote:
> > Just as an example of something remotely like what you might expect to
> see
> > in the dmesg output, here's what I see when I plug a usb-ethernet adapter
> > into a Ubuntu 16.04 USB 3 port:
> >
> > [...]
> > [2793539.351788] usb 3-2: new SuperSpeed USB device number 2 using
> xhci_hcd
> > [2793539.378837] usb 3-2: New USB device found, idVendor=0b95,
> > idProduct=1790
> > [2793539.378846] usb 3-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
> > SerialNumber=3
> > [2793539.378851] usb 3-2: Product: AX88179
> > [2793539.378856] usb 3-2: Manufacturer: ASIX Elec. Corp.
> > [2793539.378861] usb 3-2: SerialNumber: 50B61F4505
> > [2793540.800220] ax88179_178a 3-2:1.0 eth0: register 'ax88179_178a' at
> > usb-:00:14.0-2, ASIX AX88179 USB 3.0 Gigabit Ethernet,
> 00:50:b6:1f:45:05
> > [2793540.801218] usbcore: registered new interface driver ax88179_178a
> > [2793540.842186] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready
> > [2793541.169959] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready
> >
> > The link is not ready because I haven't connected an ethernet cable to
> the
> > adapter, nor an active device to the other end of the ethernet cable.
> > Note, in my case I see the ethernet interface is named eth0. Your mileage
> > may vary.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:27 AM, Russell Senior <
> russ...@personaltelco.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> So, do you see the usbN interface or not?
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:12 AM, Richard Owlett 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 06/19/2018 06:45 AM, Russell Senior wrote:
> >>>
>  Here is someone 10 years ago, using debian:
> 
> 
>  https://jonmccune.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/prolific-pl-25a1-
>  usb-to-usb-bridge-in-linux/
> 
> >>>
> >>> Now bookmarked. I read. It stated in part "... a new usbX network
> >>> interface (view with `ifconfig -a`)."
> >>> I tried and was given much - need to read up to understand what it
> tells
> >>> me.
> >>>
> >>> Then I read the rest of your post ;/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  What your distribution does (even if it is still Debian) might be
>  different
>  today, but it looks like it creates a network interface (usbN, in this
>  case).  Again, your mileage might vary, but the dmesg output should
> tell
>  you what 

Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Larry Brigman]

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:13 AM Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 06/19/2018 06:45 AM, Russell Senior wrote:
> > Here is someone 10 years ago, using debian:
> >
> >
> >
> https://jonmccune.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/prolific-pl-25a1-usb-to-usb-bridge-in-linux/
>
> Now bookmarked. I read. It stated in part "... a new usbX network
> interface (view with `ifconfig -a`)."
> I tried and was given much - need to read up to understand what it tells
> me.
>
> Then I read the rest of your post ;/
>
> ifconfig will only output the interfaces that have been configured.  If
the usbN interface(or some other name) has been created but not configured,
you will only see it in the dmesg or the ip link command output.
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

Plug in one end of cable
[ 1882.167155] usb 4-1.1.4: new high-speed USB device number 4 using 
ehci-pci
[ 1882.278177] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device found, idVendor=067b, 
idProduct=25a1
[ 1882.278183] usb 4-1.1.4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, 
SerialNumber=0

[ 1882.278187] usb 4-1.1.4: Product: USB Transfer Cable
[ 1882.278191] usb 4-1.1.4: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
[ 1882.301597] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at 
usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.4, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1, 
1e:1c:40:06:14:68

[ 1882.301642] usbcore: registered new interface driver plusb
[ 1882.306204] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: renamed from usb0
[ 1882.333434] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u4: link is not ready


Plug in other end of cable also
[ 1887.342562] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1887.342580] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1887.344176] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1887.344197] plusb 4-1.1.4:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u4: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1906.022817] usb 4-1.1.3: new high-speed USB device number 5 using 
ehci-pci
[ 1906.133374] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device found, idVendor=067b, 
idProduct=25a1
[ 1906.133381] usb 4-1.1.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, 
SerialNumber=0

[ 1906.133385] usb 4-1.1.3: Product: USB Transfer Cable
[ 1906.133389] usb 4-1.1.3: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc.
[ 1906.134334] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 usb0: register 'plusb' at 
usb-:00:1d.0-1.1.3, Prolific PL-2301/PL-2302/PL-25A1/PL-27A1, 
1e:1c:40:06:14:68

[ 1906.152962] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: renamed from usb0
[ 1906.185788] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enp0s29u1u1u3: link is not ready
[ 1911.405952] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1911.405966] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1911.407590] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped
[ 1911.407614] plusb 4-1.1.3:1.0 enp0s29u1u1u3: kevent 12 may have been 
dropped

root@debian-jan13:/home/richard#




On 06/19/2018 08:12 AM, Russell Senior wrote:

Just as an example of something remotely like what you might expect to see
in the dmesg output, here's what I see when I plug a usb-ethernet adapter
into a Ubuntu 16.04 USB 3 port:

[...]
[2793539.351788] usb 3-2: new SuperSpeed USB device number 2 using xhci_hcd
[2793539.378837] usb 3-2: New USB device found, idVendor=0b95,
idProduct=1790
[2793539.378846] usb 3-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
SerialNumber=3
[2793539.378851] usb 3-2: Product: AX88179
[2793539.378856] usb 3-2: Manufacturer: ASIX Elec. Corp.
[2793539.378861] usb 3-2: SerialNumber: 50B61F4505
[2793540.800220] ax88179_178a 3-2:1.0 eth0: register 'ax88179_178a' at
usb-:00:14.0-2, ASIX AX88179 USB 3.0 Gigabit Ethernet, 00:50:b6:1f:45:05
[2793540.801218] usbcore: registered new interface driver ax88179_178a
[2793540.842186] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready
[2793541.169959] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready

The link is not ready because I haven't connected an ethernet cable to the
adapter, nor an active device to the other end of the ethernet cable.
Note, in my case I see the ethernet interface is named eth0. Your mileage
may vary.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:27 AM, Russell Senior 
wrote:


So, do you see the usbN interface or not?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:12 AM, Richard Owlett 
wrote:


On 06/19/2018 06:45 AM, Russell Senior wrote:


Here is someone 10 years ago, using debian:


https://jonmccune.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/prolific-pl-25a1-
usb-to-usb-bridge-in-linux/



Now bookmarked. I read. It stated in part "... a new usbX network
interface (view with `ifconfig -a`)."
I tried and was given much - need to read up to understand what it tells
me.

Then I read the rest of your post ;/




What your distribution does (even if it is still Debian) might be
different
today, but it looks like it creates a network interface (usbN, in this
case).  Again, your mileage might vary, but the dmesg output should tell
you what interface name is assigned.

You could also compare the output before and after plugging in the cable
of
the command: ip addr

For example:

   ip addr > /tmp/before-plugging.txt
   [plug in device]
   ip addr > /tmp/after-plugging.txt
   diff -u /tmp/before-plugging.txt /tmp/after-plugging.txt

The difference should be the newly created network interface.



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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Russell Senior]

Now that you know how to find the interface names, you can use them to
replace eth0 in my examples.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:14 AM, Russell Senior 
wrote:

>
>
>
> The description says, in part:
>
> "Supported by Linux kernel 3.0 and later as a high-speed virtual network
> interface, no special file transfer support."
>
> That implies the cable should provide a network interface to both sides.
>
> What happens when you plug it in?  Look in dmesg (near the bottom right
> after you plug it in) and you should see something that implies a network
> interface has been created.
>
> Then, since it is a a direct network connection, and neither end is
> running a DHCP server, you will need to give both sides a static or manual
> network configuration.
>
> On host A, at shell prompt, you can run the command:
>
>   ip addr add 192.168.66.1/24 dev eth0
>
> and on host B:
>
>   ip addr add 192.168.66.2/24 dev eth0
>
> note that you will need to replace "eth0" with whatever interface name you
> find in dmesg.  It might well have a different name, and the names might be
> different on the two hosts.  You will need to do that every time you plug
> in the cable, or figure out how your distribution can do this for you when
> you plug in the cable.
>
> From a shell on host A, you can then run a command:
>
>   scp  192.168.66.2:
>
> and the file will land with the same name on in your home directory on
> host B.  That assumes your usernames are the same on both computers.  More
> generally:
>
>   scp   192.168.66.2: filename-where-you-want-it-to-land-on-host-B>
>
> "scp" is the secure copy command.  You can also use the command "rsync" to
> move larger swaths of files.  See manpages for scp and rsync for full
> details.
>
>
>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/19/2018 06:45 AM, Russell Senior wrote:

Here is someone 10 years ago, using debian:


https://jonmccune.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/prolific-pl-25a1-usb-to-usb-bridge-in-linux/

What your distribution does (even if it is still Debian) might be different
today, but it looks like it creates a network interface (usbN, in this
case).  Again, your mileage might vary, but the dmesg output should tell
you what interface name is assigned.

You could also compare the output before and after plugging in the cable of
the command: ip addr

For example:

  ip addr > /tmp/before-plugging.txt
  [plug in device]
  ip addr > /tmp/after-plugging.txt
  diff -u /tmp/before-plugging.txt /tmp/after-plugging.txt

The difference should be the newly created network interface.


The output of the "diff" command was visually cluttered.
I found it easier to just run "ip addr" for each of my test cases. None 
of the tests exceeded the display capability of MATE Terminal.


I have a four port USB expander. I did of one/both end(s) of cable 
plugged in and using permutation of which port(s) used.


All results were of the form:

8: enp0s29u1u1u4:  mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast 
state UNKNOWN group default qlen 1000
link/ether 5a:29:e7:d9:d6:dd brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff


ONLY

  mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UNKNOWN 
group default qlen 1000

was consistent throughout.

All other content was dependent ONLY on physical port used.

More later.




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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Russell Senior]

Just as an example of something remotely like what you might expect to see
in the dmesg output, here's what I see when I plug a usb-ethernet adapter
into a Ubuntu 16.04 USB 3 port:

[...]
[2793539.351788] usb 3-2: new SuperSpeed USB device number 2 using xhci_hcd
[2793539.378837] usb 3-2: New USB device found, idVendor=0b95,
idProduct=1790
[2793539.378846] usb 3-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
SerialNumber=3
[2793539.378851] usb 3-2: Product: AX88179
[2793539.378856] usb 3-2: Manufacturer: ASIX Elec. Corp.
[2793539.378861] usb 3-2: SerialNumber: 50B61F4505
[2793540.800220] ax88179_178a 3-2:1.0 eth0: register 'ax88179_178a' at
usb-:00:14.0-2, ASIX AX88179 USB 3.0 Gigabit Ethernet, 00:50:b6:1f:45:05
[2793540.801218] usbcore: registered new interface driver ax88179_178a
[2793540.842186] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready
[2793541.169959] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready

The link is not ready because I haven't connected an ethernet cable to the
adapter, nor an active device to the other end of the ethernet cable.
Note, in my case I see the ethernet interface is named eth0. Your mileage
may vary.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:27 AM, Russell Senior 
wrote:

> So, do you see the usbN interface or not?
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:12 AM, Richard Owlett 
> wrote:
>
>> On 06/19/2018 06:45 AM, Russell Senior wrote:
>>
>>> Here is someone 10 years ago, using debian:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://jonmccune.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/prolific-pl-25a1-
>>> usb-to-usb-bridge-in-linux/
>>>
>>
>> Now bookmarked. I read. It stated in part "... a new usbX network
>> interface (view with `ifconfig -a`)."
>> I tried and was given much - need to read up to understand what it tells
>> me.
>>
>> Then I read the rest of your post ;/
>>
>>
>>
>>> What your distribution does (even if it is still Debian) might be
>>> different
>>> today, but it looks like it creates a network interface (usbN, in this
>>> case).  Again, your mileage might vary, but the dmesg output should tell
>>> you what interface name is assigned.
>>>
>>> You could also compare the output before and after plugging in the cable
>>> of
>>> the command: ip addr
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>>   ip addr > /tmp/before-plugging.txt
>>>   [plug in device]
>>>   ip addr > /tmp/after-plugging.txt
>>>   diff -u /tmp/before-plugging.txt /tmp/after-plugging.txt
>>>
>>> The difference should be the newly created network interface.
>>>
>>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Russell Senior]

So, do you see the usbN interface or not?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:12 AM, Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 06/19/2018 06:45 AM, Russell Senior wrote:
>
>> Here is someone 10 years ago, using debian:
>>
>>
>> https://jonmccune.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/prolific-pl-25a1-
>> usb-to-usb-bridge-in-linux/
>>
>
> Now bookmarked. I read. It stated in part "... a new usbX network
> interface (view with `ifconfig -a`)."
> I tried and was given much - need to read up to understand what it tells
> me.
>
> Then I read the rest of your post ;/
>
>
>
>> What your distribution does (even if it is still Debian) might be
>> different
>> today, but it looks like it creates a network interface (usbN, in this
>> case).  Again, your mileage might vary, but the dmesg output should tell
>> you what interface name is assigned.
>>
>> You could also compare the output before and after plugging in the cable
>> of
>> the command: ip addr
>>
>> For example:
>>
>>   ip addr > /tmp/before-plugging.txt
>>   [plug in device]
>>   ip addr > /tmp/after-plugging.txt
>>   diff -u /tmp/before-plugging.txt /tmp/after-plugging.txt
>>
>> The difference should be the newly created network interface.
>>
>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/19/2018 06:45 AM, Russell Senior wrote:

Here is someone 10 years ago, using debian:


https://jonmccune.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/prolific-pl-25a1-usb-to-usb-bridge-in-linux/


Now bookmarked. I read. It stated in part "... a new usbX network 
interface (view with `ifconfig -a`)."

I tried and was given much - need to read up to understand what it tells me.

Then I read the rest of your post ;/




What your distribution does (even if it is still Debian) might be different
today, but it looks like it creates a network interface (usbN, in this
case).  Again, your mileage might vary, but the dmesg output should tell
you what interface name is assigned.

You could also compare the output before and after plugging in the cable of
the command: ip addr

For example:

  ip addr > /tmp/before-plugging.txt
  [plug in device]
  ip addr > /tmp/after-plugging.txt
  diff -u /tmp/before-plugging.txt /tmp/after-plugging.txt

The difference should be the newly created network interface.


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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Tyrell Jentink]

Wow... He doesn't know what dmesg is, and you're throwing him straight into
pipes, tail, and less? What's wrong with just running a command naked?

This is how people get overwhelmed... And overwhelmed people start asking
questions like "How do I make my Linux system single-user?"

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 04:38 Russell Senior 
wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:22 AM, Richard Owlett 
> wrote:
>
> > On 06/18/2018 10:14 AM, Russell Senior wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:55 AM, Richard Owlett 
> >> wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>> You say "USB Master-USB Master" cable.  Which one?
> 
> 
> >>> I didn't buy online but from local computer store.
> >>> This page describes what I bought.
> >>> https://www.castleproductshop.com/products/Plugable-Windows-
> >>> Transfer-Cable-for-Windows-10-8-1-8-7-Vista-XP-Includes/588583685
> >>>
> >>>
> >> The description says, in part:
> >>
> >> "Supported by Linux kernel 3.0 and later as a high-speed virtual network
> >> interface, no special file transfer support."
> >>
> >> That implies the cable should provide a network interface to both sides.
> >>
> >> What happens when you plug it in?  Look in dmesg (near the bottom right
> >> after you plug it in) and you should see something that implies a
> network
> >> interface has been created.
> >>
> >
> > I found /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/dmesg dated last year.
> > It was not changed when I plugged or unplugged the cable.
> > HOWEVER, MATE's Network Icon never showed completion.
> > Am I looking in right place?
> >
>
> No, I mean run the dmesg command and look at the tail, something like this:
>
>  # dmesg | tail -n 20
>
> right after you have plugged in the cable.  The tail command prints only
> the (in this case) last 20 lines of output.  If you want to see more, you
> can pipe to less instead:
>
>   # dmesg | less
>
> ... and you can scroll around.
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/18/2018 12:58 PM, Galen Seitz wrote:

On 06/18/2018 02:55 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 06/18/2018 02:44 AM, Russell Senior wrote:

 >

That said, consider the following questions as you begin your quest:

You say "networking".  Can you define what you mean by that word?


A LAN with only two computers at a time.



You say "USB Master-USB Master" cable.  Which one?


I didn't buy online but from local computer store.
This page describes what I bought.
https://www.castleproductshop.com/products/Plugable-Windows-Transfer-Cable-for-Windows-10-8-1-8-7-Vista-XP-Includes/588583685 





And, what is your goal in this "networking"?



It started as file sharing. I was using "sneaker net" with flash drives.
When I found that standard Linux can use utilities originally aimed at 
Ethernet for this hardware, the purpose became educational. 
Philosophically very similar to motivation of _Linux from Scratch_ 
without "compile, link, load", but targeting networks.


I must say that I would find it highly amusing if it were discovered 
that said "Transfer-Cable" were to contain two USB to Ethernet adapters 
wired together.  That wart in the middle is certainly big enough for 
that to be the case.


One of the references {which???} said it was based on the USB-serial 
product.




Please post the output from the lsusb command after connecting the cable.



Done. See my reply to Russell.





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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/18/2018 10:14 AM, Russell Senior wrote:

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:55 AM, Richard Owlett  wrote:
[snip]

You say "USB Master-USB Master" cable.  Which one?



I didn't buy online but from local computer store.
This page describes what I bought.
https://www.castleproductshop.com/products/Plugable-Windows-
Transfer-Cable-for-Windows-10-8-1-8-7-Vista-XP-Includes/588583685



The description says, in part:

"Supported by Linux kernel 3.0 and later as a high-speed virtual network
interface, no special file transfer support."

That implies the cable should provide a network interface to both sides.

What happens when you plug it in?  Look in dmesg (near the bottom right
after you plug it in) and you should see something that implies a network
interface has been created.


I found /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/dmesg dated last year.
It was not changed when I plugged or unplugged the cable.
HOWEVER, MATE's Network Icon never showed completion.
Am I looking in right place?

I did a similar exercise yesterday using "lsusb -t" and "lsusb -v"
The relevant extracts are:> With mouse connected, plugin left end of cable
richard@debian-jan13:~$ lsusb -t 
/:  Bus 04.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=ehci-pci/3p, 480M

|__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/8p, 480M
|__ Port 1: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
|__ Port 1: Dev 16, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, 
Driver=plusb, 480M
|__ Port 3: Dev 15, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, 
Driver=usbhid, 1.5M

With mouse connected, plugin both ends of cable
/:  Bus 04.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=ehci-pci/3p, 480M
|__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/8p, 480M
|__ Port 1: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
|__ Port 1: Dev 17, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, 
Driver=plusb, 480M
|__ Port 2: Dev 18, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, 
Driver=plusb, 480M
|__ Port 3: Dev 15, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, 
Driver=usbhid, 1.5M


Do lsusb -v > /home/richard/Desktop/bothends.txt
Extract relavant entries



Bus 004 Device 018: ID 067b:25a1 Prolific Technology, Inc. PL25A1 Host-Host 
Bridge
Device Descriptor:
  bLength18
  bDescriptorType 1
  bcdUSB   2.00
  bDeviceClass  255 Vendor Specific Class
  bDeviceSubClass 0 
  bDeviceProtocol 0 
  bMaxPacketSize064

  idVendor   0x067b Prolific Technology, Inc.
  idProduct  0x25a1 PL25A1 Host-Host Bridge
  bcdDevice   80.06
  iManufacturer   1 
  iProduct2 
  iSerial 0 
  bNumConfigurations  1

  Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength   39
bNumInterfaces  1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration  0 
bmAttributes 0x80

  (Bus Powered)
MaxPower  100mA
Interface Descriptor:
  bLength 9
  bDescriptorType 4
  bInterfaceNumber0
  bAlternateSetting   0
  bNumEndpoints   3
  bInterfaceClass   255 Vendor Specific Class
  bInterfaceSubClass  0 
  bInterfaceProtocol  0 
  iInterface  0 
  Endpoint Descriptor:

bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81  EP 1 IN
bmAttributes3
  Transfer TypeInterrupt
  Synch Type   None
  Usage Type   Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0008  1x 8 bytes
bInterval   1
  Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x02  EP 2 OUT
bmAttributes2
  Transfer TypeBulk
  Synch Type   None
  Usage Type   Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200  1x 512 bytes
bInterval   0
  Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x83  EP 3 IN
bmAttributes2
  Transfer TypeBulk
  Synch Type   None
  Usage Type   Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0200  1x 512 bytes
bInterval   0

Bus 004 Device 017: ID 067b:25a1 Prolific Technology, Inc. PL25A1 Host-Host 
Bridge
Device Descriptor:
  bLength18
  bDescriptorType 1
  bcdUSB   2.00
  bDeviceClass  255 Vendor Specific Class
  bDeviceSubClass 0 
  bDeviceProtocol 0 
  bMaxPacketSize064

  idVendor   0x067b Prolific Technology, Inc.
  idProduct  0x25a1 PL25A1 Host-Host Bridge
  bcdDevice   80.06
  iManufacturer   1 
  iProduct2 
  iSerial 0 

Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Galen Seitz]

On 06/18/2018 02:55 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 06/18/2018 02:44 AM, Russell Senior wrote:

>

That said, consider the following questions as you begin your quest:

You say "networking".  Can you define what you mean by that word?


A LAN with only two computers at a time.



You say "USB Master-USB Master" cable.  Which one?


I didn't buy online but from local computer store.
This page describes what I bought.
https://www.castleproductshop.com/products/Plugable-Windows-Transfer-Cable-for-Windows-10-8-1-8-7-Vista-XP-Includes/588583685 





And, what is your goal in this "networking"?



It started as file sharing. I was using "sneaker net" with flash drives.
When I found that standard Linux can use utilities originally aimed at 
Ethernet for this hardware, the purpose became educational. 
Philosophically very similar to motivation of _Linux from Scratch_ 
without "compile, link, load", but targeting networks.


I must say that I would find it highly amusing if it were discovered 
that said "Transfer-Cable" were to contain two USB to Ethernet adapters 
wired together.  That wart in the middle is certainly big enough for 
that to be the case.


Please post the output from the lsusb command after connecting the cable.


galen
--
Galen Seitz
gal...@seitzassoc.com
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Russell Senior]

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:55 AM, Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 06/18/2018 02:44 AM, Russell Senior wrote:
>
>> "Richard" == Richard Owlett  writes:
>>>
>>
>> Richard> For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on
>> Richard> networking *TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER"
>> Richard> cable. There are "cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users
>> Richard> with ethernet.
>>
>> One important thing to bear in mind, no one here seems to know the
>> answer to your question (perhaps because we don't really know what your
>> question is). The right, free-open-source choice here is to face and
>> slay the dragon yourself, and then report back.
>>
>
> Dragon not slain, wounded only.
>
> Selected Topics/Links
>>
>> USBNET
>>
>> http://www.linux-usb.org/usbnet/
>> http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/?selected=usb
>> http://www.zeroconf.org/
>>
>> Some man pages
>>
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/usbutils/lsusb.8.en.html
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/usbutils/usb-devices.1.en.html
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/usbutils/usbhid-dump.8.en.html
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/libusb2-dev/libusb.3.en.html
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/openssh-client/ssh.1.en.html
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/openssh-client/scp.1.en.html
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/freebsd-ppp/ppp.8.en.html
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/freebsd-manpages/ip.4freebsd.en.html
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/iproute2/ip.8.en.html
>> https://manpages.debian.org/stable/manpages/ip.7.en.html
>>
>> misc info
>>
>> https://www.castleproductshop.com/products/Plugable-Windows-
>> Transfer-Cable-for-Windows-10-8-1-8-7-Vista-XP-Includes/588583685
>> https://packages.debian.org/stable/usbutils
>> https://sources.debian.org/patches/usbutils/1:007-4/01-updat
>> e-usb-ids.diff/
>>
>
>
>
>
>> That said, consider the following questions as you begin your quest:
>>
>> You say "networking".  Can you define what you mean by that word?
>>
>
> A LAN with only two computers at a time.
>
>
>> You say "USB Master-USB Master" cable.  Which one?
>>
>
> I didn't buy online but from local computer store.
> This page describes what I bought.
> https://www.castleproductshop.com/products/Plugable-Windows-
> Transfer-Cable-for-Windows-10-8-1-8-7-Vista-XP-Includes/588583685
>

The description says, in part:

"Supported by Linux kernel 3.0 and later as a high-speed virtual network
interface, no special file transfer support."

That implies the cable should provide a network interface to both sides.

What happens when you plug it in?  Look in dmesg (near the bottom right
after you plug it in) and you should see something that implies a network
interface has been created.

Then, since it is a a direct network connection, and neither end is running
a DHCP server, you will need to give both sides a static or manual network
configuration.

On host A, at shell prompt, you can run the command:

  ip addr add 192.168.66.1/24 dev eth0

and on host B:

  ip addr add 192.168.66.2/24 dev eth0

note that you will need to replace "eth0" with whatever interface name you
find in dmesg.  It might well have a different name, and the names might be
different on the two hosts.  You will need to do that every time you plug
in the cable, or figure out how your distribution can do this for you when
you plug in the cable.

>From a shell on host A, you can then run a command:

  scp  192.168.66.2:

and the file will land with the same name on in your home directory on host
B.  That assumes your usernames are the same on both computers.  More
generally:

  scp   192.168.66.2
:

"scp" is the secure copy command.  You can also use the command "rsync" to
move larger swaths of files.  See manpages for scp and rsync for full
details.
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Tomas K]

On Sun, 2018-06-17 at 20:39 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/17/2018 05:50 PM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:
> > Oh... I guess I only answered one question...
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > To the second question: When you want to do something that no one
> > else has ever done,
FTFY: or nobody seems to be interested in solving networking that way.

That being said - I noted people genuinely trying to advice you the
best they thought would help you solve your problem. There is little
point being too upset about the fact that ethernet and TCP/IP stack
rules networking these days.

It was definitely easier to build coal fired steam engine for
educational purpose or to use acoustic couplers for networking decades
ago than it is now. There sure was more accessible, and up to date
information, and useful hardware around. Though, coal fire steam
engines maybe coming back again.

> 
> Actually it has been done.
> It's just not popular ;/
> 
> > why would you expect anyone to know how to do it?
> 
> Actually I'm finding much information on "having it my way".
> I ask NARROWLY focused questions and am told "DON'T" ;<
> 
> > If you want to
> > be the first, then go do that... But people who need their hands
> > held don't
> > usually succeed in the undoable.
> 
> Not is it not only "doable". It *HAS* been done.
> An underlying motive is education.
> 
> > 
> > It's really not a "Computer literacy" issue... 
> 
> Agreed ;>
> It just surfaced at the same time and might be considered equally 
> 'off-topic".
> 
> 
> 
> > It's a "When you can't tell
> > who's in charge, it's probably you..." issue.
> > 
> > On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 15:29 Richard Owlett 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > I have two questions I wish to discuss.
> > > Both likely push the limits of being "On Topic".
> > > Is there a forum on which either (preferably *BOTH*) would be "On
> > > Topic"?
> > > 
> > > The more general question
> > > 
> > > On my last visit to our local public library I picked up a glossy
> > > 16
> > > page four color brochure titled _Free Computer Training and
> > > Professional
> > > Development Resources_ .
> > > 
> > > In that brochure the word "Mac" occurs twice. "Linux" *NEVER*
> > > occurs.
> > > Keyboarding skills are mentioned. They also ask the question
> > > "Does
> > > grammar matter?"
> > > 
> > > Can anyone point me to a "library like" resource  recognizing
> > > that
> > > Micro$oft has competition?
> > > 
> > > There has to be somebody with more "academic integrity".
> > > 
> > > My second question has only a temporal relationship to above.
> > > 
> > > For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on
> > > networking
> > > *TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER" cable. There are
> > > "cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users with ethernet.
> > > 
> > > I've been asking questions on a distro specific list.
> > > The predominant response is *DON'T*
> > > 
> > > Ignoring the *TRIVIAL* aspects of technical(sick) aspects
> > > I wish to do XYZ, That the rest of world does pqrz is
> > > *IRRELEVANT*
> > > I have already found *EDUCATIONAL* value in chosen path.
> > > 
> > > Where may I ask *MY* questions without being told to "get lost"?
> > > 
> > > TIA
> > > 
> 
> 
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/18/2018 02:44 AM, Russell Senior wrote:

"Richard" == Richard Owlett  writes:


Richard> For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on
Richard> networking *TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER"
Richard> cable. There are "cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users
Richard> with ethernet.

One important thing to bear in mind, no one here seems to know the
answer to your question (perhaps because we don't really know what your
question is). The right, free-open-source choice here is to face and
slay the dragon yourself, and then report back.


Dragon not slain, wounded only.


Selected Topics/Links

USBNET

http://www.linux-usb.org/usbnet/
http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/?selected=usb
http://www.zeroconf.org/

Some man pages

https://manpages.debian.org/stable/usbutils/lsusb.8.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/usbutils/usb-devices.1.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/usbutils/usbhid-dump.8.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/libusb2-dev/libusb.3.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/openssh-client/ssh.1.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/openssh-client/scp.1.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/freebsd-ppp/ppp.8.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/freebsd-manpages/ip.4freebsd.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/iproute2/ip.8.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/manpages/ip.7.en.html

misc info

https://www.castleproductshop.com/products/Plugable-Windows-Transfer-Cable-for-Windows-10-8-1-8-7-Vista-XP-Includes/588583685
https://packages.debian.org/stable/usbutils
https://sources.debian.org/patches/usbutils/1:007-4/01-update-usb-ids.diff/






That said, consider the following questions as you begin your quest:

You say "networking".  Can you define what you mean by that word?


A LAN with only two computers at a time.



You say "USB Master-USB Master" cable.  Which one?


I didn't buy online but from local computer store.
This page describes what I bought.
https://www.castleproductshop.com/products/Plugable-Windows-Transfer-Cable-for-Windows-10-8-1-8-7-Vista-XP-Includes/588583685



And, what is your goal in this "networking"?



It started as file sharing. I was using "sneaker net" with flash drives.
When I found that standard Linux can use utilities originally aimed at 
Ethernet for this hardware, the purpose became educational. 
Philosophically very similar to motivation of _Linux from Scratch_ 
without "compile, link, load", but targeting networks.







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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

When I asked "Can anyone point me to a "library like" resource 
recognizing that Micro$oft has competition?", I thought there would so 
few examples I never considered a web search. My bad ;{


Did a DuckDuckGo search and received pages of hits.
Thanks.

On 06/17/2018 09:20 PM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:

Kalispell's library has changed... A lot... Since I was last there. BUT, I
wasn't the only one to take note of their Linux based systems:
http://openoffice.blogs.com/openoffice/libraries/

As for Reno... It does look like Linux has continued to be a priority since
I was last paying attention:
https://www.washoecountylibrary.us/about/reports-files/Washoe%2520County%2520Library%2520Technology%2520Plan%2520Dec%25202013%2520final.pdf

But no one has talked about it... Searching their event listing for terms
like "OpenOffice," "Linux," and "FOSS" don't bring any current results, and
this was the most recent article I could find:
http://thisisreno.com/2010/02/library-schedules-open-source-software-information-sessions/

There is also a Library Freedom Project, promoting Linux in libraries.
https://libraryfreedomproject.org/gnulinuxinthelibrary/

There is also Koha, an enterprise-class library management software that is
both open source and runs on Linux: https://koha-community.org

A quick Google search suggests libraries all over the country offering all
kinds of classes and programs and attempts to save money using Linux...

I mean... A little bit of imagination and your favorite search engine
should be arsenal enough for you to blow yourself up with...

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 18:30 Richard Owlett  wrote:


ROFL^^GRIN^^SNICKER

Can you give me links?
I intend to fight with a bureaucracy. Need ammo ;/


On 06/17/2018 05:41 PM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:

I don't consider this to be off topic...

But aren't you the one that lives (Several states) east of Estacada? How

is

any advice I'm about to give going to help anyone? In light of that...

The county libraries in Reno, NV offer classes in open source software.
Last I looked (Erm... Several years ago), it was "Mostly" OpenOffice.org
and Firefox literacy, but they promised to teach them on Linux

machines...

So maybe it matured well.

The county libraries in Kalispell, MT don't even HAVE windows computers
(Or, they didn't when I was last there, again, several years ago);
Everything was based on multiple terminal nodes plugged into central
servers running Linux (As early as 2006, no less!), And they also offered
classes...

So... I guess if "libraries that know Microsoft has competition" are what
your after... Yes, they exist.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 15:29 Richard Owlett  wrote:


I have two questions I wish to discuss.
Both likely push the limits of being "On Topic".
Is there a forum on which either (preferably *BOTH*) would be "On

Topic"?


The more general question

On my last visit to our local public library I picked up a glossy 16
page four color brochure titled _Free Computer Training and Professional
Development Resources_ .

In that brochure the word "Mac" occurs twice. "Linux" *NEVER* occurs.
Keyboarding skills are mentioned. They also ask the question "Does
grammar matter?"

Can anyone point me to a "library like" resource  recognizing that
Micro$oft has competition?

There has to be somebody with more "academic integrity".

My second question has only a temporal relationship to above.

For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on networking
*TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER" cable. There are
"cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users with ethernet.

I've been asking questions on a distro specific list.
The predominant response is *DON'T*

Ignoring the *TRIVIAL* aspects of technical(sick) aspects
I wish to do XYZ, That the rest of world does pqrz is *IRRELEVANT*
I have already found *EDUCATIONAL* value in chosen path.

Where may I ask *MY* questions without being told to "get lost"?

TIA



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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Russell Senior]

> "Richard" == Richard Owlett  writes:

Richard> For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on
Richard> networking *TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER"
Richard> cable. There are "cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users
Richard> with ethernet.

One important thing to bear in mind, no one here seems to know the
answer to your question (perhaps because we don't really know what your
question is). The right, free-open-source choice here is to face and
slay the dragon yourself, and then report back.

That said, consider the following questions as you begin your quest:

You say "networking".  Can you define what you mean by that word?

You say "USB Master-USB Master" cable.  Which one?

And, what is your goal in this "networking"?


-- 
Russell Senior
russ...@personaltelco.net
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Tyrell Jentink]

Kalispell's library has changed... A lot... Since I was last there. BUT, I
wasn't the only one to take note of their Linux based systems:
http://openoffice.blogs.com/openoffice/libraries/

As for Reno... It does look like Linux has continued to be a priority since
I was last paying attention:
https://www.washoecountylibrary.us/about/reports-files/Washoe%2520County%2520Library%2520Technology%2520Plan%2520Dec%25202013%2520final.pdf

But no one has talked about it... Searching their event listing for terms
like "OpenOffice," "Linux," and "FOSS" don't bring any current results, and
this was the most recent article I could find:
http://thisisreno.com/2010/02/library-schedules-open-source-software-information-sessions/

There is also a Library Freedom Project, promoting Linux in libraries.
https://libraryfreedomproject.org/gnulinuxinthelibrary/

There is also Koha, an enterprise-class library management software that is
both open source and runs on Linux: https://koha-community.org

A quick Google search suggests libraries all over the country offering all
kinds of classes and programs and attempts to save money using Linux...

I mean... A little bit of imagination and your favorite search engine
should be arsenal enough for you to blow yourself up with...

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 18:30 Richard Owlett  wrote:

> ROFL^^GRIN^^SNICKER
>
> Can you give me links?
> I intend to fight with a bureaucracy. Need ammo ;/
>
>
> On 06/17/2018 05:41 PM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:
> > I don't consider this to be off topic...
> >
> > But aren't you the one that lives (Several states) east of Estacada? How
> is
> > any advice I'm about to give going to help anyone? In light of that...
> >
> > The county libraries in Reno, NV offer classes in open source software.
> > Last I looked (Erm... Several years ago), it was "Mostly" OpenOffice.org
> > and Firefox literacy, but they promised to teach them on Linux
> machines...
> > So maybe it matured well.
> >
> > The county libraries in Kalispell, MT don't even HAVE windows computers
> > (Or, they didn't when I was last there, again, several years ago);
> > Everything was based on multiple terminal nodes plugged into central
> > servers running Linux (As early as 2006, no less!), And they also offered
> > classes...
> >
> > So... I guess if "libraries that know Microsoft has competition" are what
> > your after... Yes, they exist.
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 15:29 Richard Owlett  wrote:
> >
> >> I have two questions I wish to discuss.
> >> Both likely push the limits of being "On Topic".
> >> Is there a forum on which either (preferably *BOTH*) would be "On
> Topic"?
> >>
> >> The more general question
> >>
> >> On my last visit to our local public library I picked up a glossy 16
> >> page four color brochure titled _Free Computer Training and Professional
> >> Development Resources_ .
> >>
> >> In that brochure the word "Mac" occurs twice. "Linux" *NEVER* occurs.
> >> Keyboarding skills are mentioned. They also ask the question "Does
> >> grammar matter?"
> >>
> >> Can anyone point me to a "library like" resource  recognizing that
> >> Micro$oft has competition?
> >>
> >> There has to be somebody with more "academic integrity".
> >>
> >> My second question has only a temporal relationship to above.
> >>
> >> For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on networking
> >> *TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER" cable. There are
> >> "cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users with ethernet.
> >>
> >> I've been asking questions on a distro specific list.
> >> The predominant response is *DON'T*
> >>
> >> Ignoring the *TRIVIAL* aspects of technical(sick) aspects
> >> I wish to do XYZ, That the rest of world does pqrz is *IRRELEVANT*
> >> I have already found *EDUCATIONAL* value in chosen path.
> >>
> >> Where may I ask *MY* questions without being told to "get lost"?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/17/2018 06:04 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018, Richard Owlett wrote:


In that brochure the word "Mac" occurs twice. "Linux" *NEVER* occurs.
Keyboarding skills are mentioned. They also ask the question "Does 
grammar

matter?"


Richard,

   Not an answer to your question, but an explanation of what you saw.
Microsoft and Apple are for-profit companies. The latter gave schools Apple
IIe computers which produced a couple of generations who equate 'Apple' and
'computer.' No one makes money selling linux so there's no incentive to
mention it.

   I am constantly amused to read the papers accompanying a piece of
hardware, such as my new Mediasonic 4-bay external hard drive enclosure,
that carefully describe its compatability with Windows 7, 8, (probably
others I've forgotten) and Mac with a minmum OS version number. They don't
need to include that it's compatible with all flavors of linux, *BSD, and
similar OSes which, incidently, don't need a cdrom with drivers to use the
hardware.

   Forgive your local library.


*NO WAY* !
There's the issue of "academic integrity".
If I'm going to fight a bureaucracy, I need references to someone doing 
it right.


If you disagree, I'll sick on you the ghost of a History professor I had 
in the early 60's.




As they buy hardware using public funds they
must follow county purchasing policies. These, most likely, don't mention
linux at all.

Rich




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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/17/2018 05:50 PM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:

Oh... I guess I only answered one question...






To the second question: When you want to do something that no one else has
ever done,


Actually it has been done.
It's just not popular ;/


why would you expect anyone to know how to do it?


Actually I'm finding much information on "having it my way".
I ask NARROWLY focused questions and am told "DON'T" ;<


If you want to
be the first, then go do that... But people who need their hands held don't
usually succeed in the undoable.


Not is it not only "doable". It *HAS* been done.
An underlying motive is education.



It's really not a "Computer literacy" issue... 


Agreed ;>
It just surfaced at the same time and might be considered equally 
'off-topic".





It's a "When you can't tell
who's in charge, it's probably you..." issue.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 15:29 Richard Owlett  wrote:


I have two questions I wish to discuss.
Both likely push the limits of being "On Topic".
Is there a forum on which either (preferably *BOTH*) would be "On Topic"?

The more general question

On my last visit to our local public library I picked up a glossy 16
page four color brochure titled _Free Computer Training and Professional
Development Resources_ .

In that brochure the word "Mac" occurs twice. "Linux" *NEVER* occurs.
Keyboarding skills are mentioned. They also ask the question "Does
grammar matter?"

Can anyone point me to a "library like" resource  recognizing that
Micro$oft has competition?

There has to be somebody with more "academic integrity".

My second question has only a temporal relationship to above.

For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on networking
*TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER" cable. There are
"cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users with ethernet.

I've been asking questions on a distro specific list.
The predominant response is *DON'T*

Ignoring the *TRIVIAL* aspects of technical(sick) aspects
I wish to do XYZ, That the rest of world does pqrz is *IRRELEVANT*
I have already found *EDUCATIONAL* value in chosen path.

Where may I ask *MY* questions without being told to "get lost"?

TIA




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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Ben Koenig]

Working in tech support gives me all the ammo I could possibly need.

I worked with a customer a few weeks back who was having an issue with one
of my company's USB devices. It wasn't being recognized in Windows 10.
Worked on a Mac just fine, but he needed a certain piece of software to do
his job. Imagine my surprise the next morning when he emails in and says he
solved it by installing Kali Linux

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Richard Owlett  wrote:

> ROFL^^GRIN^^SNICKER
>
> Can you give me links?
> I intend to fight with a bureaucracy. Need ammo ;/
>
>
>
> On 06/17/2018 05:41 PM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:
>
>> I don't consider this to be off topic...
>>
>> But aren't you the one that lives (Several states) east of Estacada? How
>> is
>> any advice I'm about to give going to help anyone? In light of that...
>>
>> The county libraries in Reno, NV offer classes in open source software.
>> Last I looked (Erm... Several years ago), it was "Mostly" OpenOffice.org
>> and Firefox literacy, but they promised to teach them on Linux machines...
>> So maybe it matured well.
>>
>> The county libraries in Kalispell, MT don't even HAVE windows computers
>> (Or, they didn't when I was last there, again, several years ago);
>> Everything was based on multiple terminal nodes plugged into central
>> servers running Linux (As early as 2006, no less!), And they also offered
>> classes...
>>
>> So... I guess if "libraries that know Microsoft has competition" are what
>> your after... Yes, they exist.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 15:29 Richard Owlett  wrote:
>>
>> I have two questions I wish to discuss.
>>> Both likely push the limits of being "On Topic".
>>> Is there a forum on which either (preferably *BOTH*) would be "On Topic"?
>>>
>>> The more general question
>>>
>>> On my last visit to our local public library I picked up a glossy 16
>>> page four color brochure titled _Free Computer Training and Professional
>>> Development Resources_ .
>>>
>>> In that brochure the word "Mac" occurs twice. "Linux" *NEVER* occurs.
>>> Keyboarding skills are mentioned. They also ask the question "Does
>>> grammar matter?"
>>>
>>> Can anyone point me to a "library like" resource  recognizing that
>>> Micro$oft has competition?
>>>
>>> There has to be somebody with more "academic integrity".
>>>
>>> My second question has only a temporal relationship to above.
>>>
>>> For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on networking
>>> *TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER" cable. There are
>>> "cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users with ethernet.
>>>
>>> I've been asking questions on a distro specific list.
>>> The predominant response is *DON'T*
>>>
>>> Ignoring the *TRIVIAL* aspects of technical(sick) aspects
>>> I wish to do XYZ, That the rest of world does pqrz is *IRRELEVANT*
>>> I have already found *EDUCATIONAL* value in chosen path.
>>>
>>> Where may I ask *MY* questions without being told to "get lost"?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Richard Owlett]

ROFL^^GRIN^^SNICKER

Can you give me links?
I intend to fight with a bureaucracy. Need ammo ;/


On 06/17/2018 05:41 PM, Tyrell Jentink wrote:

I don't consider this to be off topic...

But aren't you the one that lives (Several states) east of Estacada? How is
any advice I'm about to give going to help anyone? In light of that...

The county libraries in Reno, NV offer classes in open source software.
Last I looked (Erm... Several years ago), it was "Mostly" OpenOffice.org
and Firefox literacy, but they promised to teach them on Linux machines...
So maybe it matured well.

The county libraries in Kalispell, MT don't even HAVE windows computers
(Or, they didn't when I was last there, again, several years ago);
Everything was based on multiple terminal nodes plugged into central
servers running Linux (As early as 2006, no less!), And they also offered
classes...

So... I guess if "libraries that know Microsoft has competition" are what
your after... Yes, they exist.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 15:29 Richard Owlett  wrote:


I have two questions I wish to discuss.
Both likely push the limits of being "On Topic".
Is there a forum on which either (preferably *BOTH*) would be "On Topic"?

The more general question

On my last visit to our local public library I picked up a glossy 16
page four color brochure titled _Free Computer Training and Professional
Development Resources_ .

In that brochure the word "Mac" occurs twice. "Linux" *NEVER* occurs.
Keyboarding skills are mentioned. They also ask the question "Does
grammar matter?"

Can anyone point me to a "library like" resource  recognizing that
Micro$oft has competition?

There has to be somebody with more "academic integrity".

My second question has only a temporal relationship to above.

For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on networking
*TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER" cable. There are
"cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users with ethernet.

I've been asking questions on a distro specific list.
The predominant response is *DON'T*

Ignoring the *TRIVIAL* aspects of technical(sick) aspects
I wish to do XYZ, That the rest of world does pqrz is *IRRELEVANT*
I have already found *EDUCATIONAL* value in chosen path.

Where may I ask *MY* questions without being told to "get lost"?

TIA



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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Tyrell Jentink]

Oh... I guess I only answered one question...

To the second question: When you want to do something that no one else has
ever done, why would you expect anyone to know how to do it? If you want to
be the first, then go do that... But people who need their hands held don't
usually succeed in the undoable.

It's really not a "Computer literacy" issue... It's a "When you can't tell
who's in charge, it's probably you..." issue.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 15:29 Richard Owlett  wrote:

> I have two questions I wish to discuss.
> Both likely push the limits of being "On Topic".
> Is there a forum on which either (preferably *BOTH*) would be "On Topic"?
>
> The more general question
>
> On my last visit to our local public library I picked up a glossy 16
> page four color brochure titled _Free Computer Training and Professional
> Development Resources_ .
>
> In that brochure the word "Mac" occurs twice. "Linux" *NEVER* occurs.
> Keyboarding skills are mentioned. They also ask the question "Does
> grammar matter?"
>
> Can anyone point me to a "library like" resource  recognizing that
> Micro$oft has competition?
>
> There has to be somebody with more "academic integrity".
>
> My second question has only a temporal relationship to above.
>
> For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on networking
> *TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER" cable. There are
> "cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users with ethernet.
>
> I've been asking questions on a distro specific list.
> The predominant response is *DON'T*
>
> Ignoring the *TRIVIAL* aspects of technical(sick) aspects
> I wish to do XYZ, That the rest of world does pqrz is *IRRELEVANT*
> I have already found *EDUCATIONAL* value in chosen path.
>
> Where may I ask *MY* questions without being told to "get lost"?
>
> TIA
>
>
>
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Re: [PLUG] [OT ? ?? ???] Linux and computer literacy

[Tyrell Jentink]

I don't consider this to be off topic...

But aren't you the one that lives (Several states) east of Estacada? How is
any advice I'm about to give going to help anyone? In light of that...

The county libraries in Reno, NV offer classes in open source software.
Last I looked (Erm... Several years ago), it was "Mostly" OpenOffice.org
and Firefox literacy, but they promised to teach them on Linux machines...
So maybe it matured well.

The county libraries in Kalispell, MT don't even HAVE windows computers
(Or, they didn't when I was last there, again, several years ago);
Everything was based on multiple terminal nodes plugged into central
servers running Linux (As early as 2006, no less!), And they also offered
classes...

So... I guess if "libraries that know Microsoft has competition" are what
your after... Yes, they exist.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 15:29 Richard Owlett  wrote:

> I have two questions I wish to discuss.
> Both likely push the limits of being "On Topic".
> Is there a forum on which either (preferably *BOTH*) would be "On Topic"?
>
> The more general question
>
> On my last visit to our local public library I picked up a glossy 16
> page four color brochure titled _Free Computer Training and Professional
> Development Resources_ .
>
> In that brochure the word "Mac" occurs twice. "Linux" *NEVER* occurs.
> Keyboarding skills are mentioned. They also ask the question "Does
> grammar matter?"
>
> Can anyone point me to a "library like" resource  recognizing that
> Micro$oft has competition?
>
> There has to be somebody with more "academic integrity".
>
> My second question has only a temporal relationship to above.
>
> For IDIOSYNCRATIC and weird local constraints I am working on networking
> *TWO* computers via a "USB MASTER-USB MASTER" cable. There are
> "cookbook"{sic/sick}" for "normal"(sic) users with ethernet.
>
> I've been asking questions on a distro specific list.
> The predominant response is *DON'T*
>
> Ignoring the *TRIVIAL* aspects of technical(sick) aspects
> I wish to do XYZ, That the rest of world does pqrz is *IRRELEVANT*
> I have already found *EDUCATIONAL* value in chosen path.
>
> Where may I ask *MY* questions without being told to "get lost"?
>
> TIA
>
>
>
> ___
> PLUG mailing list
> PLUG@pdxlinux.org
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>
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