Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Henry Hertz Hobbit]

If you are asked for your pass-phrase for the encrypted disk
that may be just fine.  My previous comment was not worded properly.
What I was concerned about is somebody using either Hibernate
or Suspend with no disk encryption at all.   But whether you use
disk encryption or not you still bypass the login. At least
with full disk encryption you are asked for the disk encryption
password. If you are happy with just the disk encryption password
prompt so am I, UNLESS it contains MY sensitive data.  If it has
my medical or other sensitive data on it then I would be far
happier that you not only used full disk encryption but that
you also just shut it down rather than doing a hibernate
or a suspend.

If you are having no problems with an encrypted SWAP I also
see no problems other than the performance issues.  If you
can live with those ... so can I.  It is what ever makes you
happy.  All I know is that until I used Hibernate I have
never saw anything in my SWAP other than garbage.

My major concern is that with stolen lap-tops from a medium
security facility is that somebody should not be using
Hibernate / Suspend without that disk encryption w. password
prompt at a minimum.  I suspect a LOT of laptop owners
(Linux, Macintosh, and Windows) are doing exactly that
though - using their laptops with no disk encryption at all.
Then they leave them on their desk at work while they go to
lunch, in their car, and in other insecure places thinking
that they will be okay with them put into hibernate / suspend
mode.  I don't think they will be okay. There are too many
horror stories of escaped highly sensitive data on laptops
not using ANY encryption much less full disk encryption to
not issue some sort of warning that hibernate / suspend is
a security risk, albeit lessened if you use disk encryption.

HHH

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Von Fugal]

> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 11:26:57 -0600
> Shane Hathaway  wrote:
> > It sounds like you're using hibernation with an encrypted swap
> > device. Is that even possible? ;-)  Has it worked before?
> 
> I have no idea. Considering the security implications of running
> without an encrypted swap partition, I hope so.

Indeed.

> But for serious security concerns (while going through the Terminally
> Stupid Agency's line to get fondled, riding in NYC taxis, e.g.), shut
> the thing down completely. If you have an encrypted swap area or
> encrypted file system(s), remember that those are mounted during the
> suspension or hibernation, so if bad guys can get the machine up from
> suspension or hibernation, they have bypassed your encryption.

Precisely, as HHH has addressed.

> With that in mind, maybe I should get rid of the encryption in the
> swap partition?

What ever for? This makes it more secure how?

Here's what I would do if I were really worried about my memory and my
data while travelling and also worried about using hibernate.

Use cryptswap! Swap may not always have useful stuff in it, and it
probably doesn't get keystrokes to your pgp keys, but it has other
things like keys for filesystem encryption, ESPECIALLY if you hibernate.
Hibernation pushes ALL memory to the disk. So ANYTHING related to
actively decrypting any mounted filesystem or a currently unlocked pgp
key (it has to have a copy of the unlocked version in memory to USE the
key) WILL get pushed to disk, so yes, you better have it on an encrypted
swap.

Then, I would get one of those teeny tiny usb flash drives, put the key
for the cryptswap on it. I am sure there HAS to be a way to configure
initrd to read the cryptswap key off of the usb drive, though I've never
done it. Then, when you hibernate, simply pull out the usb drive and put
it somewhere separate from your laptop, like, in a filling. ;) Or maybe
just a pocket. Then you could not resume from hibernate without the
drive, with the encryption key, in the laptop.

As far as not using hibernate when you travel, we as humans are
fallible. If you use hibernate at all, and you're worried about this
stuff, then that is not a good aproach. You could have used your laptop
tuesday, hibernated it that night. Not used it at all on wednesday, then
pack it up for the airport on thursday. You also were lucky enough to
remember that it was hibernated, but you're running late, and don't have
time to resume and shut down again... you get the idea. You can pull out
a usb drive when you're running late.

> However, hibernation
> writes a memory image to a swap partition, where bad guys can recover
> it.
Not if it's encrypted, and you've secured the key as I described or
password protect the cryptswap resume (this is possible right?)

> Suspension does not, so it leaves one less thing around for the bad
> guys to recover.
> http://www.charlescurley.com/blog/archives/2009/12/05/how_to_secure_your_laptop_before_crossing_the_border/index.html
Someone else mentioned this is not true. It is however much more
involved to get stuff off of volatile memory than to read a stable swap.
But also it is entirely possible that there is sensitive stuff in swap
anyway...

Just use cryptswap, and employ a method of making the cryptswap
unavailable without a password or a detachable device.

I also sure hope that when you boot on a configured cryptswap, that the
OS doesn't 'know' some static key to the encryption and enable the swap
the same way each time... obviously it would have to for hibernate,
which is why I would have it 'know' that key on a separate device, or
have it be password protected. But for a cold boot, say someone presses
the power, waits until initrd is done setting up the cryptswap, then
interrupts and freezes the ram and recovers the key to cryptswap, and
then recovers the swap from last time you shut down... no, it won't be
clean!! I really don't know how it works though, so I'd be interested if
someone can shed some light on it. New random encryption key on
cryptswap for each boot would be the way it should be.

Von Fugal
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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Von Fugal]

> Processing triggers for initramfs-tools ...
> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.32-22-generic
> cryptsetup: WARNING: found more than one resume device candidate:
>  /dev/mapper/cryptswap1
>  /dev/sda6
>  UUID=20dc692f-2a20-4799-83ec-e0fb6ac69d71
> cryptsetup: WARNING: target cryptswap1 has a random key, skipped
> 
> 
> Actually they are all the same device, but the software wouldn't
> necessarily know that.

They are the same underlying device, but they are not the same.
/dev/mapper/cryptswap1 has a layer of encryption ontop of it. /dev/sda6
does not. If you really want cryptswap, you probably also want to
hibernate encrypted, too. Otherwise, your memory gets dumped unencrypted
on hybernate, which is even worse than your swap not being encrypted.

I don't think there would be a problem with hybernating on a crypted
swap, it is the initrd that sets up the encryption layer, is it not?
Sounds like you might need to do a non-random key though.

Von Fugal
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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Henry Hertz Hobbit]

On 06/25/2010 04:05 AM, Henry Hertz Hobbit wrote:



Now that you have got it to suspend / hibernate you can
either continue to do it and delete this message or
read more and decide if you really want to use hibernate
or suspend at all.  TAP THE DELETE BUTTON NOW!

> # dd bs=1048576 count=128 if=/dev/sda7 of=/tmp/SWAP
> $ okteta /tmp/SWAP &

I should hasten to add I don't mean you should zero the entire
SWAP space.  I have the following characters at 0xFF6 ... 0xFFF
in my SWAP and where ever they are at they should probably be
preserved unless the swapper itself over-writes them:

SWAPSPACE2

And for Ubuntu 10.04 make sure you select the second safe mode
and then boot up to the root login before you start dd'ing away
the evidence. Reboot immediately after you have done the dd.

I have already done it with an offset past that since I am NOT
using full disk encryption (multiple OS problems) and I don't
want that hibernate that was stuffed into my SWAP to stay around.
Now SWAP will probably stay there with lots of zeros in it
instead of the random garbage it had before.  It was shocking to
see just how much stuff hibernate rammed into the SWAP space.

The problem I am seeing with this whole scenario is because he
mentioned full disk encryption.  What good does full disk
encryption do you if you suspend / hibernate?  You have basically
made that protection for a laptop null and void if your laptop
ever gets lost / stolen as long as there is still enough power
to boot up.  It kind of reminds me of the people using the
Enigma cipher that had combination outside / inside indicators
for their message settings that had three characters each.  So
what did they pick?  LON-DON, MAD-RID, BER-LIN, ... Why did
they do that?  "The Enigma machine is unbreakable, so we will
just use these keys since they are easy to remember." Let's
use hibernate / suspend because we know that Linux is so
infinitely secure that it will be okay.  Every set of security
mechanisms and procedures are no better than their weakest link,

Even if you aren't using full disk encryption I still see a
problem with hibernate / suspend.  If I steal your laptop at
a busy airport I am still home free.  I just hit the power
button and I am in.  Let's use hibernate / suspend to save
a few seconds will be a thief's best friend.

Let's also not encrypt our files because Linux is so much
superior to Windows. I can probably make bank on some of the
people that responded not using encryption on your files as
well.  For the some users it is because they are counting on
their full disk encryption for their entire protection which
the hibernate / suspend just bypassed.  For the users without
full disk encryption it is because they are smug in their belief
that Linux is so infinitely superior that you don't need to do
anything more than just run Linux and all the worlds ills go
away.

Are you sure you want to use the Hibernate / Suspend feature?
This especially holds for a machine that is highly portable.  I
worked for a DoD contractor once and they said they had two
Solaris Tadpole laptops.  You couldn't prove it by me because I
never saw them.  They were there in November when I arrived on
contract and by the next August when my contract had been extended
not just once but twice and they were begging me to stay longer
both of those Tadpoles were gone - STOLEN! This was at a place
a lot more secure than where most of you people's laptops are at.

I repeat - hibernate / suspend is a security nightmare.  But at
least you know how to do it if it gets lost from the menu.

HHH

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Henry Hertz Hobbit]

On 06/24/2010 06:58 PM, Jon Jensen wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010, Charles Curley wrote:



Skip to: "TO HIBERNATE / SUSPEND" and only come back and
read the rest of this if you want to.  It is underlined
so it is easy to find.

The main thing that I have different is that my Ubuntu 10.04
is a CLEAN install and that I don't have an encrypted swap.
With 5 GB RAM, hibernation is about the only thing that would
use the swap.  I have five times more memory than I have swap
because I have learned the hard way that unlike Solaris, BSD,
and other 'nix systems Linux doesn't seem to use swap properly.

You have so many other things going on that it is hard to
isolate what is causing the problem.  I don't think it is
the encryption.

I NEVER upgrade Linux (any distro) because I have had *WAY*
too many problems TRYING to do that.  Most of you have never
had it so good as to work with AIX or Solaris where upgrades
are not only possible but are a matter of course.  For Linux
I don't use LVM but have a separate / and /home partitions
and cascade what I want coming back out into the new system
into a save area in /home and let the install recreate a
new / partition but leave the /home partition alone and install
fresh.  My accounts are moved thusly before the new install:

/home/hobbit  ---> /home/oldhobbit

If I can't preserve the /home (ext3 ---> ext4, et al) then I
write my $HOME and configs I want to preserve to a CD.  I don't
know that I am going to do now because Brasero on Ubuntu 10.04
does NOT WORK!  The world for CD writing software that works!
Nothing fancy - just creating and copying CDs is all I need.
That is too much to ask for.

I let it create ALL of the new GNOME files and other stuff
FRESH and propagate the stuff I need from the oldhobbit
account back into the new hobbit account.  Data files are
just moved over.  Things like .bashrc, .profile, etcetera
just have the settings I want recreated.  The changes that
take longest are to get rid of all those silly ls, egrep,
fgrep, grep and other commands giving me stupid colors.

What is the payoff?  I have a Hibernate option hanging off
of the Indicator Applet Session menu, and it works.  But if
you are mixing and matching an older version of Gnome config
files with a newer version of Gnome all kinds of things can
screw up.  I thought every Linux person did it my way.
I don't mean the / & /home duo - I mean the trashing of ALL
old windowing config files and recreation of new ones by
the new version of Gnume, KDE, et al. Most of the people
I know use either vtwm or twm, but the process is about the
same.

I guess I am wrong because some people are under the delusion
that Linux is upgradeable - IT AIN'T.  Been there, done that,
won't go that way again.  I have tried several Linux distros
and compared to Solaris or AIX you are infinitely better off
to just START FRESH.  Even there you are sometimes better
starting off fresh for the windows config files as well.

TO HIBERNATE / SUSPEND:
===
Now, I think the following options will allow you to get
hibernate to work.  Once you get it working I leave it to
you to decide whether ot use it or not - for me the quetion
is already answered and it is NOT, even for a laptop!

1.  Create a new account.  See if the Hibernate option shows
up hanging off of the Indicator Applet Session menu.  Mine does
not show a suspend.  That means it has either been done away
with or that is something optional you have to add some sort
of package to get it, but the binary is up in /usr/sbin.  If
this works, copying all of your data files from your ${HOME}
folder some place else (I use a 1777 /home/perm dir), deleting
the old account name from the new account name and recreating
the old account name and doing what I do (detailed previously)
may do the job of getting menu choices to show up right and
work.  So much changes from even one version to another of the
SAME Linux  distro that the only thing that is constant is
change.

2. If that doesn't work or you don't want to try it then these
are the actual binaries the menu was using to achieve it (the
first was what it used for me):

pm-hibernate
pm-suspend --help

There are lots of options and that was why I gave the man page,
especially for pm-suspend.

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man8/pm-suspend.8.html

Type the following in a terminal window:

$ sudo pm-hibernate

When you power back up make sure you hit ^C in the terminal
window. Now, why don't I like it?  I AM NOT PROMPTED FOR A
LOGIN!  As far as I am concerned you can forget stuff like
you reading my RAM (theoretically possible but not very
practicable) or stuff stuck in /swap.  I am sorry, but I have
dd'd the stuff in swap and usually get NOTHING of value. Some
of you guys talk about it.  I actually do it and have modified
GRUB files with cat and hex editors to get them to work.  I
analyze malware and work at the binary level about 20% of the
time.  Before the next install I am going to attempt to dd the

Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Shane Hathaway]

On 06/24/2010 12:54 PM, Jessie Morris wrote:
> On 6/24/10 12:48 PM, Charles Curley wrote:
>> Depends on how long you plan to shut down. If you will exhaust the the
>> battery in suspension, then use hibernation. However, hibernation
>> writes a memory image to a swap partition, where bad guys can recover
>> it. Suspension does not, so it leaves one less thing around for the bad
>> guys to recover.
>>
>> http://www.charlescurley.com/blog/archives/2009/12/05/how_to_secure_your_laptop_before_crossing_the_border/index.html
>>
>>
> That is a lie. You can recover encryption keys and other data from
> memory if done right.
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/cryogenically-frozen-ram-bypasses-all-disk-encryption-methods/900

That article is now 2 years old.  Has anything been done about that 
vulnerability?  The attack looks easy and seems to require no special 
hardware.  (Freeze the RAM with a dusting can, pull the RAM, put the RAM 
in your own computer, and use some special OS to read it.)

Shane

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Jon Jensen]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010, Charles Curley wrote:

>> It sounds like you're using hibernation with an encrypted swap device. 
>> Is that even possible? ;-)  Has it worked before?
>
> I have no idea. Considering the security implications of running without 
> an encrypted swap partition, I hope so.
>
> But for serious security concerns (while going through the Terminally 
> Stupid Agency's line to get fondled, riding in NYC taxis, e.g.), shut 
> the thing down completely. If you have an encrypted swap area or 
> encrypted file system(s), remember that those are mounted during the 
> suspension or hibernation, so if bad guys can get the machine up from 
> suspension or hibernation, they have bypassed your encryption.
>
> With that in mind, maybe I should get rid of the encryption in the swap 
> partition?

I definitely wouldn't. You could end up with various unencrypted stuff in 
there which makes all your other encryption kind of a waste of time.

A couple of good alternatives are:

* Have no swap partition. For a laptop it's often not needed.

* Have your suspension or hibernation scripts run `swapoff -a` and then 
when you resume, create a new random swap partition encryption key from 
scratch and re-enable swap.

A less-good alternative that nevertheless is the one I personally use at 
the moment:

* Don't suspend or hibernate at all. :)

Jon

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Jessie Morris]

On 6/24/10 12:48 PM, Charles Curley wrote:
> Depends on how long you plan to shut down. If you will exhaust the the
> battery in suspension, then use hibernation. However, hibernation
> writes a memory image to a swap partition, where bad guys can recover
> it. Suspension does not, so it leaves one less thing around for the bad
> guys to recover.
>
> http://www.charlescurley.com/blog/archives/2009/12/05/how_to_secure_your_laptop_before_crossing_the_border/index.html
>
>
That is a lie. You can recover encryption keys and other data from 
memory if done right. 
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/cryogenically-frozen-ram-bypasses-all-disk-encryption-methods/900

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 11:26:57 -0600
Shane Hathaway  wrote:

> On 06/24/2010 09:44 AM, Charles Curley wrote:
> > I realized that what was farkled was not the kernel itself, but the
> > initrd. So I made a backup copy of the fallback kernel's initrd. I
> > then purged the hibernate package. In the process of removing it,
> > apt created a new initrd -- replacing the farkled one, not the
> > fallback initrd. So that solved that problem.
> >
> > I have rebooted to the newer kernel.
> >
> > I still don't have a menu entry for hibernating, though.
> 
> It sounds like you're using hibernation with an encrypted swap
> device. Is that even possible? ;-)  Has it worked before?

I have no idea. Considering the security implications of running
without an encrypted swap partition, I hope so.

But for serious security concerns (while going through the Terminally
Stupid Agency's line to get fondled, riding in NYC taxis, e.g.), shut
the thing down completely. If you have an encrypted swap area or
encrypted file system(s), remember that those are mounted during the
suspension or hibernation, so if bad guys can get the machine up from
suspension or hibernation, they have bypassed your encryption.

With that in mind, maybe I should get rid of the encryption in the
swap partition?

> 
> Also, I am interested to hear if you have really had a good
> experience with hibernation on Linux.  On my laptop, sleeping works
> well, but resuming from hibernation takes far too long to be
> worthwhile.

Depends on how long you plan to shut down. If you will exhaust the the
battery in suspension, then use hibernation. However, hibernation
writes a memory image to a swap partition, where bad guys can recover
it. Suspension does not, so it leaves one less thing around for the bad
guys to recover.

http://www.charlescurley.com/blog/archives/2009/12/05/how_to_secure_your_laptop_before_crossing_the_border/index.html

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Brian Simons]

On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 11:26 -0600, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> It sounds like you're using hibernation with an encrypted swap
> device. 
> Is that even possible? ;-)  Has it worked before? 

I've got encrypted swap on my laptop and I can hibernate just fine.
Ubuntu alternate install with dm-crypt and LVM handling all the
partitions on the encrypted disk. My initrd works the magic necessary to
boot and restore using this setup.


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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[David Landry]

Using an SSD and 2GB of RAM, it takes about the same amount of time to
boot to the login screen as it does to use hibernate and restore all the
programs that I have up.  I don't normally hibernate, though.  This
netbook has a crazy battery life.

David Landry

On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 11:36 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 06/24/2010 11:26 AM, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> > Also, I am interested to hear if you have really had a good experience 
> > with hibernation on Linux.  On my laptop, sleeping works well, but 
> > resuming from hibernation takes far too long to be worthwhile.
> 
> On my Fedora 12 laptop (netbook really), with 2 GB of RAM, recovering
> from hibernate takes about a very long time indeed, almost as long as a
> clean boot.
> 
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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Michael Torrie]

On 06/24/2010 11:26 AM, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> Also, I am interested to hear if you have really had a good experience 
> with hibernation on Linux.  On my laptop, sleeping works well, but 
> resuming from hibernation takes far too long to be worthwhile.

On my Fedora 12 laptop (netbook really), with 2 GB of RAM, recovering
from hibernate takes about a very long time indeed, almost as long as a
clean boot.

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Shane Hathaway]

On 06/24/2010 09:44 AM, Charles Curley wrote:
> I realized that what was farkled was not the kernel itself, but the
> initrd. So I made a backup copy of the fallback kernel's initrd. I then
> purged the hibernate package. In the process of removing it, apt
> created a new initrd -- replacing the farkled one, not the fallback
> initrd. So that solved that problem.
>
> I have rebooted to the newer kernel.
>
> I still don't have a menu entry for hibernating, though.

It sounds like you're using hibernation with an encrypted swap device. 
Is that even possible? ;-)  Has it worked before?

Also, I am interested to hear if you have really had a good experience 
with hibernation on Linux.  On my laptop, sleeping works well, but 
resuming from hibernation takes far too long to be worthwhile.

Shane

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 09:22:34 -0600
Charles Curley  wrote:

> I'm tempted to remove the hibernate package, and see if I can recover
> the farkled kernel, but I'm afraid I'll farkle this one. I have one
> other kernel installed, and it was left over from Komic Koala, so I'm
> not sure it will work with Ludicrous Lynx libraries, etc. So, time to
> back up the system and prepare for a fresh installation. Oh, fun.

I realized that what was farkled was not the kernel itself, but the
initrd. So I made a backup copy of the fallback kernel's initrd. I then
purged the hibernate package. In the process of removing it, apt
created a new initrd -- replacing the farkled one, not the fallback
initrd. So that solved that problem.

I have rebooted to the newer kernel.

I still don't have a menu entry for hibernating, though.

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 08:57:17 -0600
Charles Curley  wrote:

> Still no menu entry, but I may have to log out and in again to get it
> back.

That was a disaster.

I installed the hibernate package, as noted, and got the complaint. I
logged out and back in again. No menu entry.

I rebooted. I got a message about being unable to stat the device
"/dev/mapper/cryptswap1". Well, doh, this is while we are still running
off the initrd, and encryption hasn't been set up.

So there's a prompt to type in the name of the correct device. Doesn't
work: I get no characters echoed as I type, and no action after I hit
return.

I hit CTL-ALT-DEL, and that works (!). I fell back to an older kernel,
which does work.

I'm tempted to remove the hibernate package, and see if I can recover
the farkled kernel, but I'm afraid I'll farkle this one. I have one
other kernel installed, and it was left over from Komic Koala, so I'm
not sure it will work with Ludicrous Lynx libraries, etc. So, time to
back up the system and prepare for a fresh installation. Oh, fun.

Switching to a distribution like Debian that is not bleeding edge is
getting more attractive every day.

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:49:18 -0600
Charles Curley  wrote:

> I've just upgraded my four year old lenovo R51 laptop from Ubuntu
> Komic Koala to Ludicrous Lynx. In the process, the menu option to
> hibernate has gone away. It didn't work under Komic Koala, but this
> is not the solution I was expecting.
> 
> How do I get it back so I can see if it works?
> 

Hmmm, possibly the upgrade forgot to install a packaged called (wait
for it) "hibernate"?

I installed the package, and aptitude took the opportunity to get rid of
a lot of packages. I hope they were all old, obsolete packages. I guess
I will find out.

In the process of doing that, I got this message:

Setting up hibernate (1.99-1.1) ...

Processing triggers for initramfs-tools ...
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.32-22-generic
cryptsetup: WARNING: found more than one resume device candidate:
 /dev/mapper/cryptswap1
 /dev/sda6
 UUID=20dc692f-2a20-4799-83ec-e0fb6ac69d71
cryptsetup: WARNING: target cryptswap1 has a random key, skipped


Actually they are all the same device, but the software wouldn't
necessarily know that.

Still no menu entry, but I may have to log out and in again to get it
back.

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Spencer Gibb]

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Charles Curley
 wrote:
> Interesting. What is the script? I don't have gnomenu and no entries
> for it in gconf-editor.

$ gconftool -a /apps/gnomenu
 Tab_Efect = 1
 Control_Panel = gnome-control-center
 Help = yelp
 ListSize = 10
 Run = /usr/lib/gnomenu/Gnome_run_dialog.py
 Network_Config = nm-connection-editor
 System_Icons = 1
 LogoutNow = gnome-session-save --logout
 size = 24
 Hibernate = python -u /usr/lib/gnomenu/session-manager.py hibernate
 Suspend = python -u /usr/lib/gnomenu/session-manager.py suspend
 Bind_Key = Super_L
 Show_Thumb = 1
 TabHover = 0
 Shutdown = python -u /usr/lib/gnomenu/session-manager.py shutdown
 Lock = gnome-screensaver-command --lock
 Shownetandemail = 1
 Package_Manager = gksu synaptic
 orientation = top
 Logout = gnome-session-save --logout-dialog
 GtkColors = 1
 Prog_List = 0
 Sound_Theme = None
 AdminRun = gksu
 IconSize = 24
 Search = gnome-search-tool
 SuperL = 1
 Show_Tips = 1
 Button_Name = Ubuntu
 Power = gnome-session-save --shutdown-dialog
 Restart = python -u /usr/lib/gnomenu/session-manager.py reboot
 User = gnome-about-me
 Menu_Name = Menu
 Icon_Name = Newstyles

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 08:22:38 -0600
Spencer Gibb  wrote:

> Possibility:
> run gconf-editor search for hibernate in keys and values.  I found a
> Hibernate item that points to a python script under
> /apps/gnomenu/Hibernate

Interesting. What is the script? I don't have gnomenu and no entries
for it in gconf-editor.

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Spencer Gibb]

Possibility:
run gconf-editor search for hibernate in keys and values.  I found a
Hibernate item that points to a python script under
/apps/gnomenu/Hibernate

--
Spencer

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Charles Curley
 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 06:45:27 -0600
> Aaron Toponce  wrote:
>
> > On 06/23/2010 07:56 PM, Henry Hertz Hobbit wrote:
> > > https://launchpad.net/indicator-applet
> > >
> > > I assume you meant that it was lost from the indicator-applet menu.
> > > You should just be able to message it yourself in a terminal and
> > > background it if it gets lost from the indicator-applet menu.
> >
> > What does the indecator-applet have to do with hibernating your
> > computer?
>
> I go to where I expect to find a Hibernate option, in the right end of
> the upper panel, and I see what looks like an "on/off" button. I right
> click on it, and select "about". It says, "Indicator Applet Session
> 0.3.7". So someone (the Gnome folks? Canonical?) used the indicator
> applet to build that menu.
>
> --
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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 06:45:27 -0600
Aaron Toponce  wrote:

> On 06/23/2010 07:56 PM, Henry Hertz Hobbit wrote:
> > https://launchpad.net/indicator-applet
> >
> > I assume you meant that it was lost from the indicator-applet menu.
> > You should just be able to message it yourself in a terminal and
> > background it if it gets lost from the indicator-applet menu.
> 
> What does the indecator-applet have to do with hibernating your
> computer?

I go to where I expect to find a Hibernate option, in the right end of
the upper panel, and I see what looks like an "on/off" button. I right
click on it, and select "about". It says, "Indicator Applet Session
0.3.7". So someone (the Gnome folks? Canonical?) used the indicator
applet to build that menu.

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:51:16 -0600
Michael Torrie  wrote:

> On 06/24/2010 06:45 AM, Aaron Toponce wrote:
> > On 06/23/2010 07:56 PM, Henry Hertz Hobbit wrote:
> >> https://launchpad.net/indicator-applet
> >> 
> >> I assume you meant that it was lost from the indicator-applet
> >> menu. You should just be able to message it yourself in a terminal
> >> and background it if it gets lost from the indicator-applet menu.
> > 
> > What does the indecator-applet have to do with hibernating your 
> > computer?
> 
> Perhaps this bug?
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/+bug/597938

Right. Which I just filed. :-)

> 
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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Michael Torrie]

On 06/24/2010 06:45 AM, Aaron Toponce wrote:
> On 06/23/2010 07:56 PM, Henry Hertz Hobbit wrote:
>> https://launchpad.net/indicator-applet
>> 
>> I assume you meant that it was lost from the indicator-applet
>> menu. You should just be able to message it yourself in a terminal
>> and background it if it gets lost from the indicator-applet menu.
> 
> What does the indecator-applet have to do with hibernating your 
> computer?

Perhaps this bug?

https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/+bug/597938

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Aaron Toponce]

On 06/23/2010 07:56 PM, Henry Hertz Hobbit wrote:
> https://launchpad.net/indicator-applet
>
> I assume you meant that it was lost from the indicator-applet menu.
> You should just be able to message it yourself in a terminal and
> background it if it gets lost from the indicator-applet menu.

What does the indecator-applet have to do with hibernating your computer?

> This
> is given in  order of relevance from least to most likely for what
> you want.:
> 
> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/index.html

RTFM?

> http://preview.tinyurl.com/29tbbwm

More RTFM?

> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man8/pm-suspend.8.html

Probably the first helpful thing you've posted so far.

> It beats me where it is at in the config files.  I have a headache
> (not from this) so I am going to lay down and hopefully die.

Uh, good luck with that?

> I wasn't able to send it.   The power went down right when I
> went to click the send button.I was able to save it and quickly
> shut down GandalfTW.  I didn't think I would need to move Sauron
> over onto the UPS  Anybody know what is causing the power in South
> Provo to go down?  This is the second time this has happened and
> in a space of just few weeks between each time.  I am sorry but
> this time I am not going to buy the statement that some technician
> screwed it up.  TWICE?  I think they have trojan in their Windows
> driven SCADA system and don't want to admit it.

...and now you're hijacking the thread, just like you did before (not
that the previous paragraph really made any sense).

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Henry Hertz Hobbit]

On 06/22/2010 03:49 PM, Charles Curley wrote:
> I've just upgraded my four year old lenovo R51 laptop from Ubuntu Komic
> Koala to Ludicrous Lynx. In the process, the menu option to hibernate
> has gone away. It didn't work under Komic Koala, but this is not the
> solution I was expecting.
> 
> How do I get it back so I can see if it works?
> 

Start here and work out from there:

https://launchpad.net/indicator-applet

I assume you meant that it was lost from the indicator-applet menu.
You should just be able to message it yourself in a terminal and
background it if it gets lost from the indicator-applet menu.  This
is given in  order of relevance from least to most likely for what
you want.:

https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/index.html
http://preview.tinyurl.com/29tbbwm
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man8/pm-suspend.8.html

It beats me where it is at in the config files.  I have a headache
(not from this) so I am going to lay down and hopefully die.

I wasn't able to send it.   The power went down right when I
went to click the send button.I was able to save it and quickly
shut down GandalfTW.  I didn't think I would need to move Sauron
over onto the UPS  Anybody know what is causing the power in South
Provo to go down?  This is the second time this has happened and
in a space of just few weeks between each time.  I am sorry but
this time I am not going to buy the statement that some technician
screwed it up.  TWICE?  I think they have trojan in their Windows
driven SCADA system and don't want to admit it.

HHH

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Michael Torrie]

On 06/23/2010 11:33 AM, Henry Hertz Hobbit wrote:
> On 06/22/2010 03:49 PM, Charles Curley wrote:
>> I've just upgraded my four year old lenovo R51 laptop from Ubuntu Komic
>> Koala to Ludicrous Lynx. In the process, the menu option to hibernate
>> has gone away. It didn't work under Komic Koala, but this is not the
>> solution I was expecting.

> I do advise changing your $PATH from:
> 
> export PATH=${HOME}/bin:${PATH}
> 
> to:
> 
> export PATH=${PATH}:${HOME}/bin

I don't think Charles' needs to be changed.  In fact, I'm a little
confused as to how anything you posted addresses his hibernation problem.

You may not need hibernate on your desktop machine, but on a laptop both
hibernate and suspend are pretty important.


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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 17:33:45 +
Henry Hertz Hobbit  wrote:

> On 06/22/2010 03:49 PM, Charles Curley wrote:
> > I've just upgraded my four year old lenovo R51 laptop from Ubuntu
> > Komic Koala to Ludicrous Lynx. In the process, the menu option to
> > hibernate has gone away. It didn't work under Komic Koala, but this
> > is not the solution I was expecting.
> > 
> > How do I get it back so I can see if it works?
> 
> Hmm, haven't all the hibernating creatures in the northern hemisphere
> come out of hibernation?  Seriously, it works for me but I am using
> not a laptop but a desktop machine with an MSI board, hardly something
> needing it.  I am still searching for whether it is in the Gnome
> config files but so far - blank.  I will let you know if I find it.
> It has to be there some place, but so far I have only looked at my
> files and it is probably in the sys files.  We are talking Gnome
> rather than KDE, correct?

Yes, Gnome.

My problem is I don't see a menu entry for it. There are some low level
tools to do the actual hibernation, but I suspect they may leave some
apps in a broken state; those apps must be notified first so they can
clean up their acts.

> 
> All I want is for the screen saver to lock the screen when it starts
> while I am gone.  It does that.  It also handles my ASUS monitor which
> is why after not getting the res right I dumped 9.10 and went to
> 10.04 LTS.  In fact it does wonderful with everything except those
> PCI parallel boards which I am still fighting.  I also have the HP
> JetDirect card but I would like to find which filter works with the
> HP-LJ-4P printer first.

HP does a good job of supporting their printers; check on the
HPLIP project web page. I've compiled and installed the source more
than once because it did a better job than the packages.

If you want to put a question to the list, try a separate email with a
new subject. People who are ignoring this thread because they aren't
interested in it (or they dislike me or something :-) will miss your
question.

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Re: Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Henry Hertz Hobbit]

On 06/22/2010 03:49 PM, Charles Curley wrote:
> I've just upgraded my four year old lenovo R51 laptop from Ubuntu Komic
> Koala to Ludicrous Lynx. In the process, the menu option to hibernate
> has gone away. It didn't work under Komic Koala, but this is not the
> solution I was expecting.
> 
> How do I get it back so I can see if it works?

Hmm, haven't all the hibernating creatures in the northern hemisphere
come out of hibernation?  Seriously, it works for me but I am using
not a laptop but a desktop machine with an MSI board, hardly something
needing it.  I am still searching for whether it is in the Gnome config
files but so far - blank.  I will let you know if I find it.  It has
to be there some place, but so far I have only looked at my files
and it is probably in the sys files.  We are talking Gnome rather than
KDE, correct?

All I want is for the screen saver to lock the screen when it starts
while I am gone.  It does that.  It also handles my ASUS monitor which
is why after not getting the res right I dumped 9.10 and went to
10.04 LTS.  In fact it does wonderful with everything except those
PCI parallel boards which I am still fighting.  I also have the HP
JetDirect card but I would like to find which filter works with the
HP-LJ-4P printer first.  I finally gave up on OpenSuse 11.2 ever
finding the right filter.  Once I have that I can probably make it
work with the LPR protocol via the JetDirect but if I do that it
will never work with Windows - who cares?  I am almost never running
Windows.  Unfortunately, the PCI parallel cards DO work with
Windows. So did the USB ---> Parallel cable and Linux didn't know
what to do with that either.  It would be nice to have something
that works with BOTH.

I haven't installed DesktopBSD yet, but I would much prefer GRUB 1
where I can just go stick in the line I want.  GRUB 2 is over-kill.
I did change the /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ with a chmod 644 to get
rid of those silly memtest options.  Oh yes, I do defeat the sudo
way of doing things by just starting an xterm with sudo. So far,
init  has never killed it and I have had it running for almost a
week.  I figure if it hasn't killed it by then it is not going to.
Now you know why I want to lock my screen when I walk away!  Yes,
I do need a root xterm hanging around all the time for what I do,
and yes, I know how to handle it.

I do advise changing your $PATH from:

export PATH=${HOME}/bin:${PATH}

to:

export PATH=${PATH}:${HOME}/bin

I have no idea what they are thinking there.  If you need to
over-ride something in /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin put
it into /usr/local/bin or /usr/local/sbin and put those first
in the $PATH.  But IF the trojans ever come to Linux (I am
beginning to think it will never happen), replacing the system
ls, ps, et al with ones in your ${HOME}/bin can be done without
you even knowing it was done. I have done it.  Are you sure you
want both Java and JavaScript enabled all the time in Firefox?
Are you sure you don't want to run Firefox without NoScript?
The University of Utah Mathematics department mandates Firefox
only and NoScript on all operating systems.

HHH

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Yes, we have no hibernate today

[Charles Curley]

I've just upgraded my four year old lenovo R51 laptop from Ubuntu Komic
Koala to Ludicrous Lynx. In the process, the menu option to hibernate
has gone away. It didn't work under Komic Koala, but this is not the
solution I was expecting.

How do I get it back so I can see if it works?

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