Re: Does anyone use ventoy ?

[Herminio Hernandez Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

It is a great tool
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2024, at 1:46 PM, joe--- via PLUG-discuss 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone on the PLUG list
> have experience using Ventoy?
> 
> A friend used his Ventoy USB flash
> stick to install Linux Mint on a
> used thinkpad t470 that I purchased.
> 
> But I then discovered that the newer
> Linux Mint version that he installed
> does not have many KDE capabilties
> that I have always had on my older
> thinkpad laptops.
> 
> So I downloaded Ventoy from
> https://ventoy.net ... hoping to
> install kubuntu to get those valuable
> KDE capabilities that I need.
> 
> When I tried to install Ventoy, the
> system said: "Congratulations! Ventoy
> has been successfully installed to the
> device" ... However, the USB is blank.
> 
> So, I purchased a Ventoy USB from ebay:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/364756232958
> 
> But it came with no instructions, and
> I cannot figure out how to get it to
> boot on the used thinkpad t480 that I
> purchased with win-10 installed.
> 
> I use Linux exclusively and have zero
> experience with windblows.
> 
> j...@actionline.com
> ===
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Re: Cisco SME ...

[Herminio Hernandez Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

I have work worked Cisco iOS and NX-OS series of switches. I am currently a Sr. Network Engineer for a MSP in the valley. What exactly do you need done. If you need to email me directly with details let me know. Sent from my iPhoneOn Jul 5, 2023, at 12:01 AM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss  wrote:Catalysts are still mostly the same beasts they've been for 20 years, shouldn't be anything weird or special if you have any familiarity with cisco switching at all.Primarily a network engineer/architect/consultant for year 20+ years with cisco and a bit of everything else - just post what you want to do, glad to offer advice, or if sensitive, unicast me off-list.-mbOn Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 9:25 PM Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss  wrote:Does anyone in this community do Cisco consulting or is otherwise a stud with Cisco Switches?I bought a 48 port POE+ Cisco Catalyst 9300x, and while I am more than confident in my ability to "Google it, and figure shit out" ... I feel it was too large of a purchase to "wing it", and would prefer an expert to guide me through some initial setup.I've configure plenty of switches in my day, but it's my first Cisco since my CCNA "cram course" (which I only got an CCENT from) back in 2013.Willing to pay an hourly fee, if it helps to grease the track!Would prefer a CCNP or demonstrated  equivalent experience. Thanks!--Thanks,AlexanderSent from my Google Pixel 7 Pro
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Re: Cisco SME ...

[Herminio Hernandez Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

I am a network engineer. Been working on Cisco since 2008. What is the issue?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2023, at 9:25 PM, Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Does anyone in this community do Cisco consulting or is otherwise a stud with 
> Cisco Switches?
> 
> I bought a 48 port POE+ Cisco Catalyst 9300x, and while I am more than 
> confident in my ability to "Google it, and figure shit out" ... I feel it was 
> too large of a purchase to "wing it", and would prefer an expert to guide me 
> through some initial setup.
> 
> I've configure plenty of switches in my day, but it's my first Cisco since my 
> CCNA "cram course" (which I only got an CCENT from) back in 2013.
> 
> Willing to pay an hourly fee, if it helps to grease the track!
> 
> Would prefer a CCNP or demonstrated  equivalent experience. Thanks!
> 
> --
> Thanks,
> Alexander
> 
> Sent from my Google Pixel 7 Pro
> ---
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Re: ot- holes

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

Stay safe guys!

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 3:10 PM Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> It's coming through Maricopa now...
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2022, at 2:44 PM, Michael via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>
> Boy oh Boy. we just had a major storm blow through here. Our fence
> has survived fifteen years of hurricanes until this storm (not a
> hurricane). It was only missing one tiny section where a tree fell on it
> but now there are three GAPING holes,
>
>
> --
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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Re: how to get filezilla or best option ...

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

here is the syntax
send
scp file user@server:~/directory
rec
scp ser@server:~/directory file

On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 4:52 PM joe--- via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> Today, I tried to install filezilla on my linux
> laptop and it did not work. What is the best option?
>
> I can ssh from one of my linux laptops into another
> one on my home network, but I don't know the syntax
> to ftp from one to the other. And I don't know any
> other way to send to or retrieve from one to the other.
>
> I tried 'scp' but don't know the correct syntax.
>
> ===
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Re: downgrade darktable

[Herminio Hernandez Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

Adding line to /etc/pacman.conf

IgnorePkg = darktables

Be warned this may break things. 

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/pacman#Skip_package_from_being_upgraded

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 9, 2022, at 11:48 AM, Michael via PLUG-discuss 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> how can I go back to the previous version and make it so that updating the 
> computer won't upgrade darktable? My computer is not powerful enough for 3.8. 
> The lag is not too horrible but enough that I don't want the new features.
> 
> I run ARCH
> 
> -- 
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
> ---
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Re: Kdenlive + Audacity noise reduction

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

I was able to re-mux the clean audio and video using MKVToolNix_GUI. It is
in the Debian rep. Synced up perfectly

Herminio

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 3:36 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> I've done something like this with audacity, but not a good while to
> remember exactly how.
>
> Some 6-7 years ago I was excited about starting a business, and was
> playing with building a call IVR system that I recorded my own voice audio
> for voice prompts, but picked up the rest of crap in my house too.  I used
> some basic noise filters through standard installed filters to remove stuff
> almost brainlessly.  I remember a buddy of mine checking it out for me, he
> asked me if I did these professionally edited or something, and was just
> like "nah, me screwing around", but it ended up being really clean audio
> recording through my Jabra 510 speakerphone.
>
> For your use case with video, you'll probably need to extract the audio
> stream, run it through audacity with the noise filter, re-mux it back in.
> I don't deal with video editing really to tell you the best method there,
> but probably containerize it as a mkv.  I'm sure you ought to be able to
> mux the audio/video feeds with existing tools, mostly what folks do with
> video all day for pira^H^H^H^Huploaded videos all day.
>
> HTH!
>
> -mb
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:15 AM Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> I have a video that I want to reduce noise. I can extract the audio and
>> cancell the noise via Audacity. However when I try to join it to the video
>> clip in Kdenlive it is out of sync. I have looked and cannot find a
>> solution for this. Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Herminio
>> ---
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Re: Kdenlive + Audacity noise reduction

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

I was using an iPhone to record the Video. I wonder if that was
contributing.

Herminio

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 12:27 PM Brian Cluff via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> I've never had that problem.  I actually do this for every video I've made
> for plug.  I just use the export audio function from within kdenlive and
> then do whatever processing I need to do on it and then simply save it back
> out as a wav again (or more recently a flac file so save space) and load it
> into kdenlive, making sure to line the beginning of the audio clip up with
> the beginning of it's video.  They've lined up every single time.  You just
> have to make sure that you don't cut any parts out from either the video or
> the audio before reassembling them in kdenlive.
>
> That being said if you somehow did get your audio off, you'll need for
> look for some visual clue as to when things happen and simply slide the
> audio over until it lines up.  I used to have to do this for every single
> plug video when I first started because I was capturing the audio
> completely separate from the video.  Ideally you would use a clapperboard
> or just simply have someone on camera clap once so you could see the clap
> and line up the corresponding clap sound with the clap motion.
>
> Brian Cluff
>
> On 9/21/21 11:15 AM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I have a video that I want to reduce noise. I can extract the audio and
> cancell the noise via Audacity. However when I try to join it to the video
> clip in Kdenlive it is out of sync. I have looked and cannot find a
> solution for this. Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Herminio
>
> ---
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>
>
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Kdenlive + Audacity noise reduction

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

All,

I have a video that I want to reduce noise. I can extract the audio and
cancell the noise via Audacity. However when I try to join it to the video
clip in Kdenlive it is out of sync. I have looked and cannot find a
solution for this. Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,
Herminio
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Re: Linux Friendly Color Printer

[Herminio Hernandez Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

I am pretty sure there a hplip package that most distos come with that should 
have the drivers. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 30, 2021, at 11:12 AM, Sebastian  wrote:
> 
> All their printers?
> 
>> On 6/30/21 11:11 AM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. wrote:
>> HP is Linux friendly
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jun 30, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Sebastian via PLUG-discuss 
>>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alright, everyone, the day has come...
>>> 
>>> I want a new color printer. And as you might expect: I want it to also
>>> be friendly for Linux users.
>>> 
>>> Suggestions?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
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Re: Linux Friendly Color Printer

[Herminio Hernandez Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

HP is Linux friendly

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 30, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Sebastian via PLUG-discuss 
>  wrote:
> 
> Alright, everyone, the day has come...
> 
> I want a new color printer. And as you might expect: I want it to also
> be friendly for Linux users.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> 
> ---
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Re: Squid Proxy question

[Herminio Hernandez Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

You want HA Proxy to do what you want. YouTube Lawrence systems HA Proxy. He 
has great video tutorials on it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 20, 2021, at 12:39 PM, keith Miller via PLUG-discuss 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I have installed and been working now PfSense firewall awesome product
> I have about 9 domain I  host from home and through lack of knowledge also 
> have 8 static IP's for those domains
> I have known about Squid proxy and I BELIEVE its ability to allow me to host 
> all 8 domain behind one public IP
> pfsense has a installable module for squid proxy is my ASSUMPTION correct 
> about what squid proxy does and if I install it
> will it mess with my working domain right now.
> 
> -- 
> Keith D. Miller
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Re: PfSense + ubiquity

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

Can you  login to the FW via the LAN interface? Can you  ping the FW LAN
interface? Check the routing and NAT policy on the FW. All outbound traffic
should NAT to the FW WAN interface and there should be a default (0.0.0.0/0)
route to the internet.

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:27 PM Seabass via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> I'm with Mac, I think it is not the firewall, but if you have the ability
> to plug it into a display with a keyboard, you can use that for
> configuration and modify a different device at the same time.
>
> Makes it easier to troubleshoot by giving you the ability to configure
> your pfSense ports at the same time.
>
>
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 09:04:35 -0700
> From: Donald Mac McCarthy 
> To: "Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss"
> 
> Subject: Re: pfSense + Ubiquity
> Message-ID: <18adfa38-3e72-7b0a-e31a-1ddf175d7...@oscontext.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I can help - but I am unavailable to do so until tomorrow.
>
> Make sure there are not any thing other than default VLANs on the
> interfaces to start with. Ubiquiti is famous for not havinght eSFP+
> ports active in the default configuration, and I believe the switch has
> all the ports to shutdown on default config as well.
>
> I think it is the switch not passing traffic through - no the firewall.
>
> Mac
> Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss wrote on 5/2/20 8:53 AM:
> > Does anyone out there have experience with pfSence and Ubiquity switches?
> >
> > I have zero with either but that didn't stop me from buying both 
> > how hard could it be?! LOL.
> >
> > I bought a Negate XG-1537-1U. I bought a Unifi Pro 24 PoE switch.
> >
> > I can configure the FW immediately after
> > firstboot/restore-default-configs, but only if i set the LAN interface
> > to be the cable that goes directly to my laptop. That's great, but
> > that does shit for the downstream switch.
> >
> > I have a 10GB SFP+ Port that I want to configure as the downstream
> > port to ubiquity, but any configuration other than mentioned above
> > fails  and I'm now on my 12th "Reset To Factory Defaults" ... any
> > help on this would be greatly appreciated!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alexander
> >
> > Sent from my Galaxy S10+
> >
> >
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>
> --
> Donald "Mac" McCarthy
> Director, Field Operations
> Open Source Context
> +1.602.584.4445
> m...@oscontext.com
> https://oscontext.com
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> End of PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 179, Issue 2
> 
>
>
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Re: video card for watching videos

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via PLUG-discuss]

What do you currently have?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:18 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> I'm looking for a new video card.  I'll use it mainly for watching
> videos.  I'm looking for something that will play h265 video and not bog
> down my system.  What should I look for in a video card?  thanks
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Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 178, Issue 1

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

I have Ubports running on Nexus tablet. I like it for what it is. Hoping the 
make more improvements. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 1, 2020, at 5:51 PM, Stephen Partington  wrote:
> 
> 
> Oh neat. I am glad it was picked up. 
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 5:40 PM Todd Cole  wrote:
>> Ubuntu touch is still active as 
>> https://ubports.com/
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:54 PM Stephen Partington  
>>> wrote:
>>> Ubuntu touch was really nice. but the lack of app support was crippling. i 
>>> was sad but unsurprised when they sent it EOL.
>>> 
>>> Are they trying to reinvigorate it?
>>> 
 On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 12:44 PM Stephen Elliott  
 wrote:
 Is anyone using Ubuntu Touch on a handset? Which handsets work in the US? 
 
 This looks like an option I would like to try.
 
 Thx
 Stephen Elliott
 
 -Original Message-
 From: PLUG-discuss  On Behalf Of 
 plug-discuss-requ...@lists.phxlinux.org
 Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 12:00 PM
 To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
 Subject: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 178, Issue 1
 
 Send PLUG-discuss mailing list submissions to
 plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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 You can reach the person managing the list at
 plug-discuss-ow...@lists.phxlinux.org
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than 
 "Re: Contents of PLUG-discuss digest..."
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
1. OT: Wireless Routers and Access Points (Nathan (PLUGAZ))
2. Re: COVID-19 OSS help desk (Aaron Jones)
3. Re: OT: Wireless Routers and Access Points (Stephen Partington)
4. Re: OT: Wireless Routers and Access Points (Nathan (PLUGAZ))
5. Re: OT: Wireless Routers and Access Points
   (techli...@phpcoderusa.com)
6. Re: OT: Wireless Routers and Access Points (Stephen Partington)
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:57:54 -0500
 From: "Nathan (PLUGAZ)" 
 To: Main PLUG discussion list 
 Subject: OT: Wireless Routers and Access Points
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
 
 
 
 Hey All,
 
 My dd-wrt router is getting on in years and seems to be failing quite a 
 bit. I'm looking for some recommendations for routers. I have a linux box 
 that sits between my cable modem and my network, so I really don't need a 
 big router, really just an access point. Nevertheless, I enjoy looking at 
 pretty stats and such about my wireless clients.
 
 Any suggestions?
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 2
 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:54:52 -0700
 From: Aaron Jones 
 To: Main PLUG discussion list 
 Subject: Re: COVID-19 OSS help desk
 Message-ID:
 
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
 
 Going to advertise this to my students.
 
 Thanks.
 Aaron
 
 On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:49 AM der.hans  wrote:
 
 > moin moin,
 >
 > a forum for people working on stopping COVID-19 to get help with Free 
 > and Open Source software they're using.
 >
 > If you're working on a solution using FLOSS, then you can join and ask 
 > quesitons.
 >
 > If not, you can still offer useful responses to those with questions.
 >
 > https://covid-oss-help.org/
 >
 > ciao,
 >
 > der.hans
 > --
 > #  https://www.LuftHans.com   https://www.PhxLinux.org
 > #  Linux Fest Northwest cancelled, working to get presentations online 
 > #  https://www.lfnw.org/conferences/2020
 > #  "... the social skills of a cow on acid." - der.hans
 > ---
 > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To 
 > subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
 > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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 --
 
 Message: 3
 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 19:14:54 -0700
 From: Stephen Partington 
 To: plu...@codezilla.xyz,  Main PLUG discussion list
 
 Subject: Re: OT: Wireless Routers and Access Points
 Message-ID:
 
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
 
 Ubiquity wireless mesh APs are about 80-100 right now.
 

Re: Need Network Engineer for Small Project

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

I can meet with you. What is your availability?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 2, 2020, at 6:57 PM, George Toft  wrote:
> 
> Need Network Engineer to consult/guide for a few hours on a small project.
> 
> Existing: Three node mesh VPN between three locations.  Been in-place since 
> 2012.  Recently upgraded VPN devices (Linksys LRT-224's) as a part of the 
> next step.  However, the VPN device at one node is not the default gateway 
> for that LAN segment - the old device is as it is bound to a public IP 
> address that the customer's customers access by IP address and not name.  
> Added static routes to LAN devices to route traffic to the other two nodes 
> via the VPN device.  This has been working since September. This doesn't mean 
> we can't reconfigure if we have to.
> 
> Next Step: Customer wants two ISP connections using different media.  Old ISP 
> is Cox Business.  New ISP is CenturyLink.  Have installed new devices at 
> office and data center and created second VPN tunnel between these two nodes. 
>  Unable to get traffic to reliably use second VPN.  I can get the traffic to 
> go down the CenturyLink VPN, but only by configuring the CenturyLink devices 
> with the same IP addresses as the Cox devices.  This is OK for an emergency, 
> but not the desired end result.
> 
> Final step: Get traffic to fail-over from one tunnel to the other when the 
> primary VPN fails.  Cox has already notified customer that the cable needs to 
> be replaced and there will be several days of downtime, so this is a 
> certainty.
> 
> Lots more details to share.  Need to show topology.  If you're with me at 
> this point, saying "Uh-huh, George, easy stuff" then please email me.  I'm 
> willing to pay, so this will get you some fine craft beer, not that free 
> beer.  I anticipate a preliminary meeting to discuss requirements, then some 
> on-site working sessions.
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> George Toft
> 
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Re: How to find which switch port is associated with a particular outlet

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Unplugging the cable and see what lights go out is one way. If the switch is a 
manger switch probably has lldp enabled then you can install lldp on your 
laptop. Then plug you laptop in and you should see what port you are connected. 
There is good documentation online on how to do this. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Mark Phillips  wrote:
> 
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Re: New Router Purchase

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

The edge router is a solid device. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2019, at 12:32 PM, Stephen Partington  wrote:
> 
> 
> I would suggest that you look at the ubiquity edgerouter lite. 3 ports, 1 
> Wan, 2 lan, and a management port. Capable of a good amount of traffic. And 
> it gets you all sorts of business class features for a good price. Then you 
> can do wifi however you like. It's about 130 and will go on sale for down to 
> 95. I use one happily connecting it to a switch and from there to my wifi 
> servers etc. 
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 12:17 PM  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It appears I am having Internet router problems.  Occasionally I will not be 
>> able to access the Internet for a few seconds to a minute or so.  This 
>> morning I was not able to access the Internet at all. 
>> 
>> I am with Cox and have a home office business account.  I called Cox and 
>> they suggested bypassing my router and connect directly to their modem.  
>> That worked.  Based on that I think my router is going bad.  
>> 
>> I had turned off the modem and the router for a maybe an hour or so while I 
>> did other things.  I now have access.
>> 
>> I would like a secure router.  Cox says almost any modern router will be 
>> secure.  Security is a big issue.  When I look at all the WiFi that is 
>> available in my neighborhood I see maybe 10 routers.  That is scary! 
>> 
>> Since I have a business account that allows servers I have been using port 
>> forwarding.  I am a programmer and occasionally I fire up my laptop turned 
>> server for testing. 
>> 
>> I also have set up my WiFi to only accept those devices that I have 
>> configured by MAC address. 
>> 
>> Any toughs on my pending router purchase?
>> 
>> Thank you so much for all your feedback!!
>> 
>> Keith 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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asciidoc book editor

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Hans,

Have you looked at this app?

https://asciidocfx.com/
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Re: OT: Need help editing a YouTube video ...

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I have done some video editing for YT? What do you need done?

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 12:07 PM Joe Lowder  wrote:

> Friends ... I need help editing a YouTube video and I
> am willing to pay a tutor to help me get the job done.
>
> Please reply offline to: joe(at)actionline.com
>
>
>
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Re: Port 80/443 router conflict

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

The issue most of of the box routers have pretty basic port-forwarding. If
you are already forarding 80/443 to one server then you will not be able to
use it on another server unless you have more than public ip address.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 2:14 PM Carlton Brooks 
wrote:

> I have a successful homeassistant setup running on a NUC with a
> letsencrypt certificate. It uses Port 80 and 443 for internet access.
>
> I just bought a Synology NAS disk station DS918+ to do all my bacups etc.
>
> If I want to access the outside world with the NAS with an SSL or
> Letsencrypt certificate, I again need to have port 80/443 open.
>
> This is where I need help. I will admit the lack of knowledge at this
> point but I do know that two devices can not share the same ports, but
> how might I configure the NAS to gain outside secure access.
>
> I can get a domain name but am confused as to using a DDNS or cname to
> gain access.
>
> Any help in "somewhat" simple terms would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Carlton Brooks
>
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Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

What are your networking issues?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 7, 2019, at 2:21 AM, Stephen Partington  wrote:
> 
> Right now Grub is about the only thing working right. i am having the 
> weirdest time trying to learn how to do networking the arch way. their 
> documentation has decidedly gotten worse.
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:16 PM Michael Butash  wrote:
>> What sort of FS structure do you use for yours?  Arch and it's grub 
>> configuration is highly broken for me, and many other folks right now, so 
>> I'm sure it's something particular to my build.
>> 
>> I've been afraid to update my dekstop lately just in case same issues there 
>> now, but there is little difference between them at this point I can find 
>> that one works, and the other does not, other than a lack of raid.
>> 
>> -mb
>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM Stephen Partington  
>>> wrote:
>>> I had Nvidia/Intel working on a Lattitude 5580 with bumblebee working well. 
>>> In the case of my specific AW it is a G-Sync enabled display, so there is 
>>> no Mux chip to swap between intel and Nvidia graphics. Native screen and 
>>> all physical connectors are connected directly to the nvidia GPU, and the 
>>> Intel chip does not do much unless you have thunderbolt working. But it 
>>> worked well with Ubuntu so i don't expect much with regards to Arch. Arch 
>>> will likely have more behavior issues with Wifi.
>>> 
 On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:54 AM Eric Oyen  wrote:
 Speaking of BSD environments…
 
 Well, Theo DeRaadt still won’t make his OS accessible. In fact, he expects 
 someone like me to go through the process of coding the apps, patching and 
 finally submitting to the ports system (for lengthly review, etc.). All I 
 wanted was to have BrilTTY included as a possible startup option on the 
 installation disks for OpenBSD.
 
 Now, there is an accessibility project going over at NetBSD, but I haven’t 
 had a lot of time to download and try it out. The forums are still abuzz 
 with technical issues and the like and ORCA still would have to be patched 
 and ported in order to work on an X Desktop there. So, unless things 
 radically change, I am stuck with a few Linux Distros and not much hope 
 for a more secure OS anytime soon.
 
 If I had a ride up to the black hat convention in Las Vegas next time Theo 
 is there, I might meet with him in open forum and have him explain before 
 a very public audience why it is that many blind users like me are left 
 out of the picture on his OS. Perhaps it might spur him into action and to 
 doing the right thing. Or, it might cause him to dig in and never do 
 anything (I hope for the former, but expect the latter, if you know what I 
 mean). We blind users expect to be able to use technology and there really 
 is no longer any excuse not to make Operating systems accessible..
 
 Anyway, that’s my take on the BSD world. And yes, like you, I don’t want 
 to have to face breakages, moved items or removed items that I found 
 useful. You know how it is with engineers, they just love to change things!
 
 -Eric
 From the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Technology for all Dept.
 
 
> On Mar 5, 2019, at 12:39 AM, Thomas Scott  
> wrote:
> 
> I've moved towards arch and even BSD in personal use over the past few 
> years away from ubuntu. I don't want massive changes, I want solid, slow 
> changes. Funny how when I first got into Linux a decade ago, I loved the 
> "cutting edge", now when I see something new, I'm more likely to yell at 
> my computer "You moved that WHERE?!". 
> 
> In the day (night) job, it's RH. As MB noted, when it comes to the 
> enterprise, it's still supreme. Especially with Openstack gaining as much 
> ground as it has, Canonical lags far behind RH and even Mirantis in 
> support. Kind of sad to see my old favorite dwindle so much.  
> 
>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 12:00 AM Eric Oyen  wrote:
>> Well, from an accessibility standpoint, Ubbuntu is one of the better 
>> distros around. ORCA screen reader, BrlTTY, speak, emacsspeak and 
>> several others are available and even the initial setup is accessible. I 
>> haven’t tried this on arch yet and until I research it, I can’t give a 
>> qualified opinion on arch.
>> 
>> -Eric
>> From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Dept of Research and 
>> Development.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 4, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Michael Butash  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's little things like that that make the distro to be honest.  Don't 
>>> piss me off, don't die catastrophically randomly, don't upgrade and 
>>> leave me at some nebulous boot prompt.  Ubuntu did that to me too many 
>>> times, Arch has been downright gentile by comparison, particularly for 
>>> as complex a setup as I have 

Re: Arch definition of simplicity?

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Here is a good thread from the arch forums
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1149530#p1149530

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 11:47 AM Steve Litt 
wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 14:15:14 -0700
> Stephen Partington  wrote:
>
> > From https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux
> >
> > "Arch Linux defines simplicity as *without unnecessary additions or
> > modifications*.
>
> Given such a definition, it would be interesting to hear Arch's
> explanation of substituting the million LOC systemd for the very skinny
> sysvinit, runit, s6, busybox or OpenRC init systems.
>
> SteveT
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Re: Arch definition of simplicity?

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

There is a huge thread in the arch mailing list on this. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 6, 2019, at 11:47 AM, Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 14:15:14 -0700
> Stephen Partington  wrote:
> 
>> From https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux
>> 
>> "Arch Linux defines simplicity as *without unnecessary additions or
>> modifications*. 
> 
> Given such a definition, it would be interesting to hear Arch's
> explanation of substituting the million LOC systemd for the very skinny
> sysvinit, runit, s6, busybox or OpenRC init systems.
> 
> SteveT
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Re: Potential Phoenix Area Collective Meetup - March 25th

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I will be interested

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 7:46 AM Aaron Jones  wrote:

> All,
>
> http://www.dc602.com/
> https://www.phx2600.org/
>
> And others are trying to put together a meet and greet on March 25th
> around the Tempe AZ area. They have extended an invitation to PLUG and are
> interested in having some of our members make an appearance.
>
> If you think you would like to attend this meeting and hang out with some
> of the other computer collectives and hacker groups, please let me know or
> email packetvital...@gmail.com and express an interest if you feel
> comfortable doing so. Their stated goal is to 'get all these disparate
> groups together and help them to get to know each other'.
>
> I don't know nor do I endorse any of these folks but networking is always
> a good idea and meeting people can help open doors potentially, so YMMV.
>
> See you all at the SPLUG meeting this month!
>
> Thanks!
> Aaron
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Re: security: apt redirect bug

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Thanks Hans!

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 10:08 PM der.hans  wrote:

> moin moin,
>
> a security flaw was discovered in apt that allows a remote man in the
> middle attacker to inject a malicious package that will be installed by
> root.
>
> Use '-o Acquire::http::AllowRedirect=false' option for apt tools to
> disable the redirect that's vulnerable in order to install the updates.
>
> Also, use upgrade rather than dist-upgrade or full-upgrade for now to
> prevent installation of packages that aren't already installed.
>
> In fact, perhaps look at the upgrade list and specifically install the apt
> packages from it.
>
> Disabling AllowRedirect has been working for me with both debian and
> Ubuntu.
>
> --
>   apt -o Acquire::http::AllowRedirect=false update
>   apt -o Acquire::http::AllowRedirect=false upgrade
> --
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2019/msg00010.html
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> #  https://www.LuftHans.com   https://www.PhxLinux.org
> #  ... All true wisdom is found on T-shirts.
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Re: android question

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

If it is a AT device then you are dead in the water. There is no way to
unlock the bootloader on those deives.

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 10:52 PM Stephen Partington 
wrote:

> This really will vary depending on the device. And if you are still paying
> for it. If paid you can try the provider you bought it from.
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 9:00 PM Snyder, Alexander J <
> a...@misteralexander.com wrote:
>
>> There are lots of quality bootloader tools here. Also, lots of custom
>> ROMs. Beware virus and spyware, only use ROMs the community vouches for,
>> from known/respected people.
>>
>> https://forum.xda-developers.com/android
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alexander.
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S8+
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 20:39 Jim >
>>> Does anyone know of a way to unlock the bootloader of an android device
>>> if the manufacturer has locked it and won't supply a code to unlock it?
>>> Where would be a good place to look?
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Re: google cloud print

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

I am assuming you have tried this

https://support.google.com/cloudprint/answer/1686197?hl=en

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 11, 2018, at 8:17 PM, Michael  wrote:
> 
> How do you print remotely with google cloud print?
> 
> 
> -- 
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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Re: google cloud print

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

According to Google you can

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 11, 2018, at 8:17 PM, Michael  wrote:
> 
> How do you print remotely with google cloud print?
> 
> 
> -- 
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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Re: CentOS 6/7

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

A lot of the changes are to the migration to Systemd as the init system

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2018, at 1:25 PM, Bob Elzer  wrote:
> 
> It's called progress.
> 
> but I agree it was a shock that first time booting. To me the biggest change 
> was going to systemd, but I actually like it better and it boots a whole lot 
> faster.
> 
> as for the network device names, I believe the names correspond to where the 
> device is on the motherboard, it really makes it hard to preconfigure it when 
> you don't know what it's going to be called that first time.
> 
> The one thing that annoys me is they changed the order of the new service 
> command it was
> service name  command ie service httpd restart
> 
> now it's. systemctl restart httpd
> 
> I don't know why they flipped the order.
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018, 12:40 PM Snyder, Alexander J > wrote:
>> Why did things have to change so dramatically between CentOS 6 and 7?
>> 
>> Does anyone know why networking devices aren't eth0/1/2/3 but are now 
>> ens0f0/enp0d0.
>> 
>> Also getting into single user mode now is (IMHO) unnecessarily complicated 
>> (typing 'single' versus now 'init=/sysroot/bin/bash').
>> 
>> Im not sure what to even Google to get the explanation im seeking, so I 
>> thought I'd ask the brain trust!
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Alexander.
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Re: HP ENVY Photo 7855

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

What distro are you running?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Matt Graham  wrote:
> 
>> On 2018-10-25 19:28, Michael wrote:
>> It didn't work. Whether I selected USB or NEY I got the same response:
>> error: No device selected/specified or that supports this functionality.
>>   $ hp-setup -i 192.168.0.5 <- found in the printer settings
>> HP Linux Imaging and Printing System (ver. 3.16.3)
> [massive snip]
> 
> The manufacturer's website at 
> https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supported_devices/ 
> says you need to have at least 3.17.9 of hplip to have everything supported 
> on an HP Envy Photo 7855.  The older version you have installed apparently 
> doesn't do scanning, but it can print.  So it's time to upgrade your hplip.  
> There's got to be something more recent; that's kind of an older version 
> AFAICT and I don't have ebuilds for anything older than 3.18.6 here.  Hey, at 
> least you don't need the proprietary hplip-plugin package!
> 
> -- 
> Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress
> There is no Darkness in Eternity
> But only Light too dim for us to see.
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Re: A word of thanks to PLUG ...

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

People helping people that is community

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2018, at 6:44 PM, der.hans  wrote:
> 
> Am 25. Oct, 2018 schwätzte Joe Lowder so:
> 
> moin moin,
> 
> Awesome. Glad to help! ( says someone who almost definitely din't help
> with a printing problem :) )
> 
> Thanks for the thanks. That's why we do what we do, we want to help people
> out.
> 
> ciao,
> 
> der.hans
> 
>> Friends ...
>> 
>> There are simply no words to adequately express
>> how thankful I am for all of my terrific friends
>> in PLUG.
>> 
>> Again today, I found myself stuck with yet another
>> glitch (printer not responding, again); so I turned
>> again to the PLUG Mailing List Archive where I found
>> the solution that I needed (reset the printer's IP).
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: HP ENVY Photo 7855

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Yes my HP is on the network and the scanning works fine. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2018, at 7:09 PM, Michael  wrote:
> 
> so this means I need to connect it via network? 
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 1:53 PM Herminio Hernandez, Jr. 
>>  wrote:
>> I have the same issue on my HP ENVY 4500! Here is how I fixed it. 
>> 
>> 1. remove your printer
>> 
>> 2. run this command in terminal as sudo 'hp-setup -i ip address of printer'
>>-go through the set up wizard in the terminal and print you test page
>> 
>> 3. open simple scan and you should then see your printer. also goto 
>> preferences in simple scan and set the resolution
>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:35 AM Brian Cluff  wrote:
>>> Do you have the printer connected via USB or the network?
>>> 
>>> Brian Cluff
>>> 
>>>> On 10/25/18 3:40 AM, Michael wrote:
>>>> nope... didn't work.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:06 PM Brian Cluff  wrote:
>>>>> Try running your scanner software with sudo from the command line and see 
>>>>> if that makes it work.  If it does, then it's a permissions issue.  You  
>>>>> probably just need to add yourself to the scanner group and then logout 
>>>>> and back in and it will work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brian Cluff
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 10/24/18 7:40 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>>>> I got this printer and it print beautiful photos I was so 
>>>>>> excited. Then I discovered that the scanner doesn't work (bummer). 
>>>>>> Anyone know how to get it running> I sent a support request to HP but 
>>>>>> they haven'y gotten back to me yet. (it has been a couple of days) The 
>>>>>> information they requested is after my signature followed by my attempt 
>>>>>> to fix it
>>>>>> From what I've gleaned from it  plugins are not installed (which and how 
>>>>>> eludes me) and dependencies are not installed.
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  $ hp-check -t
>>>>>> Saving output in log file: /home/bmike1/hp-check.log
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> HP Linux Imaging and Printing System (ver. 3.16.3)
>>>>>> Dependency/Version Check Utility ver. 15.1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Copyright (c) 2001-15 HP Development Company, LP
>>>>>> This software comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
>>>>>> This is free software, and you are welcome to distribute it
>>>>>> under certain conditions. See COPYING file for more details.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Note: hp-check can be run in three modes:
>>>>>> 1. Compile-time check mode (-c or --compile): Use this mode before 
>>>>>> compiling the
>>>>>> HPLIP supplied tarball (.tar.gz or .run) to determine if the proper 
>>>>>> dependencies
>>>>>> are installed to successfully compile HPLIP. 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 2. Run-time check mode (-r or --run): Use this mode to determine if a 
>>>>>> distro
>>>>>> supplied package (.deb, .rpm, etc) or an already built HPLIP supplied 
>>>>>> tarball   
>>>>>> has the proper dependencies installed to successfully run.   
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Both compile- and run-time check mode (-b or --both) (Default): This 
>>>>>> mode
>>>>>> will check both of the above cases (both compile- and run-time 
>>>>>> dependencies).   
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Check types: 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a. EXTERNALDEP - External Dependencies   
>>>>>>   
>>>>>> b. GENERALDEP - General Dependencies (required both at compile and run 
>>>>>> time)
>>>>>> c. COMPILEDEP - Compile time Dependencies
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> d. [All are run-time checks] 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PYEXT SCANCONF QUEUES PERMISSION 
>>

Re: HP ENVY Photo 7855

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I have the same issue on my HP ENVY 4500! Here is how I fixed it.

1. remove your printer

2. run this command in terminal as sudo 'hp-setup -i *ip address of
printer'*
*   -*go through the set up wizard in the terminal and print you test page

3. open simple scan and you should then see your printer. also goto
preferences in simple scan and set the resolution

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:35 AM Brian Cluff  wrote:

> Do you have the printer connected via USB or the network?
>
> Brian Cluff
> On 10/25/18 3:40 AM, Michael wrote:
>
> nope... didn't work.
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:06 PM Brian Cluff  wrote:
>
>> Try running your scanner software with sudo from the command line and see
>> if that makes it work.  If it does, then it's a permissions issue.  You
>> probably just need to add yourself to the scanner group and then logout and
>> back in and it will work.
>>
>> Brian Cluff
>>
>> On 10/24/18 7:40 PM, Michael wrote:
>>
>> I got this printer and it print beautiful photos I was so
>> excited. Then I discovered that the scanner doesn't work (bummer). Anyone
>> know how to get it running> I sent a support request to HP but they haven'y
>> gotten back to me yet. (it has been a couple of days) The information they
>> requested is after my signature followed by my attempt to fix it
>> From what I've gleaned from it  plugins are not installed (which and how
>> eludes me) and dependencies are not installed.
>> --
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>>  $ hp-check -t
>> Saving output in log file: /home/bmike1/hp-check.log
>>
>> HP Linux Imaging and Printing System (ver. 3.16.3)
>> Dependency/Version Check Utility ver. 15.1
>>
>> Copyright (c) 2001-15 HP Development Company, LP
>> This software comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
>> This is free software, and you are welcome to distribute it
>> under certain conditions. See COPYING file for more details.
>>
>> Note: hp-check can be run in three modes:
>> 1. Compile-time check mode (-c or --compile): Use this mode before
>> compiling the
>> HPLIP supplied tarball (.tar.gz or .run) to determine if the proper
>> dependencies
>> are installed to successfully compile HPLIP.
>>
>> 2. Run-time check mode (-r or --run): Use this mode to determine if a
>> distro
>> supplied package (.deb, .rpm, etc) or an already built HPLIP supplied
>> tarball
>> has the proper dependencies installed to successfully run.
>>
>> 3. Both compile- and run-time check mode (-b or --both) (Default): This
>> mode
>> will check both of the above cases (both compile- and run-time
>> dependencies).
>>
>> Check types:
>>
>> a. EXTERNALDEP - External Dependencies
>>
>> b. GENERALDEP - General Dependencies (required both at compile and run
>> time)
>> c. COMPILEDEP - Compile time Dependencies
>>
>> d. [All are run-time checks]
>>
>> PYEXT SCANCONF QUEUES PERMISSION
>>
>>
>> Status Types:
>> OK
>> MISSING   - Missing Dependency or Permission or Plug-in
>> INCOMPAT  - Incompatible dependency-version or Plugin-version
>>
>> warning: linuxmint-18.3 version is not supported. Using linuxmint-17.3
>> versions dependencies to verify and install...
>>
>> ---
>> | SYSTEM INFO |
>> ---
>>
>>  Kernel: 4.15.0-36-generic #39~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Tue Sep 25 08:59:23 UTC
>> 2018 GNU/Linux
>>  Host: MikesBeast
>>  Proc: 4.15.0-36-generic #39~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Tue Sep 25 08:59:23 UTC
>> 2018 GNU/Linux
>>  Distribution: linuxmint 18.3
>>  Bitness: 64 bit
>>
>>
>> ---
>> | HPLIP CONFIGURATION |
>> ---
>>
>> HPLIP-Version: HPLIP 3.16.3
>> HPLIP-Home: /usr/share/hplip
>> warning: HPLIP-Installation: Auto installation is not supported for
>> linuxmint distro  18.3 version
>>
>> Current contents of '/etc/hp/hplip.conf' file:
>> # hplip.conf.  Generated from hplip.conf.in by configure.
>>
>> [hplip]
>> version=3.16.3
>>
>> [dirs]
>> home=/usr/share/hplip
>> run=/var/run
>> ppd=/usr/share/ppd/hplip/HP
>> ppdbase=/usr/share/ppd/hplip
>> doc=/usr/share/doc/hplip
>> html=/usr/share/doc/hplip-doc
>> icon=no
>> cupsbackend=/usr/lib/cups/backend
>> cupsfilter=/usr/lib/cups/filter
>> drv=/usr/share/cups/drv
>> bin=/usr/bin
>> apparmor=/etc/apparmor.d
>> # Following values are determined at configure time and cannot be changed.
>> [configure]
>> network-build=yes
>> libusb01-build=no
>> pp-build=yes
>> gui-build=yes
>> scanner-build=yes
>> fax-build=yes
>> dbus-build=yes
>> cups11-build=no
>> doc-build=yes
>> shadow-build=no
>> hpijs-install=yes
>> foomatic-drv-install=yes
>> foomatic-ppd-install=yes
>> foomatic-rip-hplip-install=no
>> hpcups-install=yes
>> cups-drv-install=yes
>> cups-ppd-install=no
>> internal-tag=3.16.3
>> restricted-build=no
>> ui-toolkit=qt4
>> qt3=no
>> qt4=yes
>> policy-kit=yes
>> lite-build=no
>> udev_sysfs_rules=no
>> hpcups-only-build=no
>> hpijs-only-build=no
>> apparmor_build=no
>>
>>
>> Current contents of '/var/lib/hp/hplip.state' file:
>> Plugins are not installed. Could not access file: No such file or
>> directory
>>
>> 

Re: bonding

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

For bonding it is never a good idea to bond different port speeds. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 9, 2018, at 1:09 PM, Aaron Jones  wrote:
> 
> You are still limited by the pipe and the sending/receiving box. It’s 
> probably not gonna work like you think. You will most likely slow your 
> connection down. 
> 
> But ... 
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/53499/how-to-merge-multiple-internet-connections-into-one
> 
> Try it out and report back. 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 9, 2018, at 1:03 PM, Jim  wrote:
>> 
>> My computer has 100 megabit ethernet on the motherboard.  I've disabled that 
>> so I can use the gigabit ethernet card I added.  If I were to bond those 
>> adapters, could i get 1.1 gigabit?  How would I do this?
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> 
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Re: Steam Jumps for New Wine Variant?

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I am currently testing games some work and some do not. Steam has a
whitelist that is growing

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:33 AM Stephen Partington 
wrote:

>
> https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/08/valves-steam-play-uses-vulkan-to-bring-more-windows-games-to-linux/
>
> This is pretty fascinating in my book... Just that they are building a
> Wine / VKd3d fork in tandem...
>
> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>
> Stephen
>
> ---
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Dell Optiplex 3020 for sale

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I have a Dell Optiplex 3020 for sale. It has intel core i3, 4GB of RAM.
7200 RPM Drive. I have an older Nvidia GPU in it as well. I am look to sell
for $325. If anyone is interested please let me know.

Thanks
Herminio
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Re: OT: Looking for Network Engineer for Small Project

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

I do networking for a living. What do you need?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 26, 2018, at 11:01 AM, George Toft  wrote:
> 
> I have a small VPN project where I need some advice.  Any networking folks 
> want to make some beer money?
> 
> (I'll be out of town the next 4 days, so if I don't respond immediately, do 
> be offended - I'll get back to you on Monday.)
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> George Toft
> 
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Re: #eFail is #reFail

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Any thought on this response from the GnuPG
https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2018-May/060334.html

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:21 PM, Matthew Crews 
wrote:

> Never been a fan of HTML emails anyway. Its too bad that most websites
> that have email communications insist on emailing you with HTML.
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Re: #eFail is #reFail

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

So it looks like a good way to send secure message is write them as text
files, encrypt them via GPG and send as attachments. Am I right?

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 3:52 PM, Joseph Sinclair <plug-discuss...@stcaz.net>
wrote:

> The EFF recommendation is primarily an abundance of caution for the
> community who use PGP for mail as many such users are at risk of serious
> and targeted attack.
> PGP being enabled won't open a threat vector for some other attack.
> Having it enabled in email may, however, allow a targeted attack to expose
> the decrypted content of those emails; so for now (if you have very
> high-value encrypted emails) it may be better to export PGP email and
> decrypt at the command line for reading in a text editor.
>
> TL;DR
> Overall this is a class of attacks that could expose the plain text of
> emails encrypted with S/MIME or PGP, but requires enough effort and skill
> that it's mostly an issue for individuals who are using PGP or S/MIME to
> defend against serious threats, such as criminal organizations or state
> actors, and have emails containing sufficient value to justify the level of
> effort involved.
> All users should disable HTML in email by default, regardless, as that is
> a major attack vector that has no known mitigation (and likely never will),
> HTML may be enabled for individual (unencrypted) messages as needed.
> Encrypted email should, of course, never be anything other than plain text
> (with separately encrypted attachments if needed).
>
> Below is my (admittedly limited) full assessment for those who might be
> interested.
>
> The vulnerabilities requires two major factors:
> 1) The attacker must have the original encrypted message (the ciphertext)
> still encrypted.  These are most concerning as Man-in-the-Middle attacks.
> 2) The client must (generally) have HTML email supported and enabled
> (note, HTML isn't the only backchannel available, but it's the most likely
> and by far the easiest to implement).
>
> Note that all of these techniques export some amount of the decrypted
> data, but not a massive amount.  Somewhere between 4 and 200 bytes.  They
> can be repeated, however, within a final multipart MIME email to obtain the
> full text.
>
> How it works, in short form:
> If you have HTML enabled on view, the attacker can send you a message in
> HTML format with the ciphertext buried within the HTML (e.g. inside the
> href attribute of a img tag), and use url packing (putting tracking text in
> a URL after the resource path) to send that text to a server.  The client
> will happily decrypt the contents, then attempt to access the url, sending
> the decrypted data to the server as part of the request.
> If you have one of the HTML email clients (e.g. most webmail clients) that
> allow script within the email, then a script could easily send the *entire*
> decrypted content to the server, and then display *only* that to the user;
> successfully hiding its tracks while obtaining the full decrypted message.
> Webmail clients should probably never be used with PGP or S/MIME.
>
> What the attacker does is grab the encrypted message, modify it to take
> advantage of one of the discussed techniques, and then forward it on to the
> intended recipient.
> In the simplest case, the attacker just wraps the content in properly
> structured HTML (ideally with script) and adjusts the MIME structure, then
> send it on.  If HTML is enabled, this can be enough.
> If a more advanced approach is required (and script isn't available), then
> the data can be restructured in several ways using flaws in specific block
> encryption modes (specifically CBC and CFB) to obtain small amounts of data
> in each MIME part; repeating the attack enough times to get most or all of
> the data (up to around 500 MIME parts).  The message looks funny, and might
> be suspicious, but it still has a decent chance of working.
> With even more effort, a non-HTML backchannel might be used, something
> like MIME external data blocks and DNS sniffing, or PGP key lookups, but
> the amount of data obtained in this way will be quite limited.
>
> GPG includes certain mechanisms to prevent the more difficult attacks
> against the OpenPGP specification, although it cannot do much about a leaky
> client.  Not all clients enable those features or respond to reported
> security issues properly, however, so while GPG is (or can be) secure, its
> use in email may not be, depending on the client.
> Some mail gateways that apply encryption at the gateway are vulnerable,
> although most can be configured to be secure, and some are secure in the
> default configuration (details for these are not provided, of course).
>
> On 2018-05-14 01:58 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
> > So t

Re: #eFail is #reFail

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

So this why the EFF is recommending this
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/05/disabling-pgp-thunderbird-enigmail

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 1:24 PM, der.hans  wrote:

> moin moin,
>
> lots of news about "new" PGP and S/MIME handling security issues.
>
> Considering GnuPG addressed it 15 years ago, it doesn't seem to be new :)
>
> Also, email clients automatically displaying remote content has never
> been safe.
>
> Summary seems to be:
>
> 1. Using text mail rather than html mail mitigates one of the disclosed
> issues.
>
> 2. Disabling old ciphers or having a mail client that properly handles
> decryption warnings and/or sanitizes messages will work for the other.
>
> See mailpile's response for the latter.
>
> https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2018-May/060315.html
>
> https://www.mailpile.is/blog/2018-05-14_PGP_Security_Alert.html
>
> One good thing to come out of this is that I now know about mailpile :)
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> #  https://www.LuftHans.com   https://www.PhxLinux.org
> #  Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Laptop for compiling.

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Go to craigslist and search for laptops. you set the price range from
500-700. There are some really good choices that will work well under Linux

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 11:05 PM, trent shipley 
wrote:

> I'm thinking about getting a new laptop. Mine is several years old, and
> while it's quite serviceable, it boots really slowly, and it doesn't like
> to run a guest Ubuntu OS under Oracle VirtualBox. Also, I foresee more
> compiling in my future, even though of late I've been rather truant about
> working on my own through my Haskell book. I will say no more about the R
> book. I don't game, because it is addicting, and therefore bad for me.
>
> I tend to try to get as much life as possible out of a computer, because I
> am poor. I have heard good things about ASUS. I see more Linux in my
> future, but I have to have Windows and since Windows tends to come
> preinstalled, I expect it would be my native, host OS.
>
> I'd like to spend $500, but could (and probably will) stretch to $700.
>
> What could I expect to get for that, and what would you suggest.
>
> Trent.
>
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Change Twitter password

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Someone there committed an ID10T error. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-twitter-passwords/twitter-says-glitch-exposed-substantial-number-of-users-passwords-idUSKBN1I42JG
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Re: children of spectre

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

These on AMD chips as well?

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:38 AM, der.hans <pl...@lufthans.com> wrote:

> Am 03. May, 2018 schwätzte Herminio Hernandez, Jr. so:
>
> moin moin,
>
> Just when you thought it could not get any worst... so when will we be
>> moving to RISC??
>>
>
> We're already on risky :).
>
> I expect we will continue having new vulns discovered for at least the
> next couple years.
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:12 AM, Stephen Partington <cryptwo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> struth
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:11 AM, der.hans <pl...@lufthans.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> moin moin,
>>>>
>>>> 8 new intel flaws set for announcement.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Exclusive-Spectre-NG-Multipl
>>>> e-new-Intel-CPU-flaws-revealed-several-serious-4040648.html
>>>>
>>>> At least one of the kids appears to be much worse than spectre.
>>>>
>>>> "an attacker could launch exploit code in a virtual machine (VM) and
>>>> attack the host system from there – the server of a cloud hoster, for
>>>> example. Alternatively, it could attack the VMs of other customers
>>>> running
>>>> on the same server."
>>>>
>>>> "Intel's Software Guard Extensions (SGX), which are designed to protect
>>>> sensitive data on cloud servers, are also not Spectre-safe."
>>>>
>>>> ciao,
>>>>
>>>> der.hans
>>>> --
>>>> #  https://www.LuftHans.com   https://www.PhxLinux.org
>>>> #  "But you could teach these skills to a high-school student, and you
>>>> could
>>>> #  probably teach them to an artist."  -- Richard Roberts
>>>> ---
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
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>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> #  https://www.LuftHans.com   https://www.PhxLinux.org
> #  "I decry the current tendency to seek patents on algorithms.  There are
> #  better ways to earn a living than to prevent other people from making
> use
> #  of one's contributions to computer science."  -- Donald E. Knuth
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Re: children of spectre

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Just when you thought it could not get any worst... so when will we be
moving to RISC??

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:12 AM, Stephen Partington 
wrote:

> struth
>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:11 AM, der.hans  wrote:
>
>> moin moin,
>>
>> 8 new intel flaws set for announcement.
>>
>> https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Exclusive-Spectre-NG-Multipl
>> e-new-Intel-CPU-flaws-revealed-several-serious-4040648.html
>>
>> At least one of the kids appears to be much worse than spectre.
>>
>> "an attacker could launch exploit code in a virtual machine (VM) and
>> attack the host system from there – the server of a cloud hoster, for
>> example. Alternatively, it could attack the VMs of other customers running
>> on the same server."
>>
>> "Intel's Software Guard Extensions (SGX), which are designed to protect
>> sensitive data on cloud servers, are also not Spectre-safe."
>>
>> ciao,
>>
>> der.hans
>> --
>> #  https://www.LuftHans.com   https://www.PhxLinux.org
>> #  "But you could teach these skills to a high-school student, and you
>> could
>> #  probably teach them to an artist."  -- Richard Roberts
>> ---
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>
> Stephen
>
>
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Re: laptop

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

ThinkPads run Linux great. You can find some on Craigslist for decent prices. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 6:34 PM, Andrew McRobb  wrote:
> 
> Thinkpads I hear run Linux very well.
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 6:14 PM kevin  wrote:
>> I have a run of the mill i5 based HP we purchased at Costgo for under $500.  
>> Runs Archlinux just fine.  Completely took the Windows off it.
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> From: Michael 
>> Date: 3/26/18 7:10 PM (GMT-07:00)
>> To: PLUG 
>> Subject: laptop
>> 
>> which laptop runs linux well? I can not afford a 800 dollar system 76 
>> computer. i am willing to spend 5-600 dollars. preferably less. i just need 
>> to be able to run darktable and video editing software.
>> 
>> -- 
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>> ---
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> -- 
> Andrew McRobb
> Full-time Software Developer
> Part-time Freelancer
> mcrobb.info
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Re: Hosted Netflow collector/analyzer

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

ntop is a great tool of netflow collecting

https://www.ntop.org/

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 7:57 PM, Steve B  wrote:

> Are there any Mikrotik users on the list? I'm interested in gaining some
> additional info about my network traffic and am looking for a Netflow
> collector/analyzer SaaS. Polygraph.io was mentioned at a previous MUM and
> they are both Mikrotik friendly and have a very intuitive UI. However, they
> don't accept residential/enthusiast clients.
>
> Is anyone here on the list familiar with a company that offers this type
> of service for non-commercial businesses or for the SOHO market?
>
>
>
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Re: HTML5 as JS

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Mozilla confirms this bug is exploitable. I am making sure JavaScript is
off by default and only enabled in pages where I want it to.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/mozilla-confirms-web-based-execution-vector-for-meltdown-and-spectre-attacks/

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 1:36 AM, der.hans <pl...@lufthans.com> wrote:

> Am 05. Jan, 2018 schwätzte Herminio Hernandez, Jr. so:
>
> moin moin,
>
> Yeah, JavaScript's annoying. I've been using NoScript to block it outright
> for years. I only allow certain sites to have JavaScript. Some of those
> sites only get JavaScript when I'm trying to checkout. Some get their own
> browser instance before I allow them to have JavaScript.
>
> Recently JavaScript has been used to do bitcoin mining via web browsers
> and it's had several security issues over the years.
>
> It can't escape the sandbox if it never runs :).
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
>
>
> Damn Stallman was right again
>>
>> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/po/javascript-trap.ja-en.html
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 10:52 PM, Andrew McRobb <andrewmcr...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> JavaScript being the Raccoon? heh
>>>
>>> Andrew McRobb
>>> Full-time Software Developer
>>> Part-time Freelancer
>>> mcrobb.info
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 8:46 PM, Ed <p...@0x1b.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> More like raccoons to oranges...
>>>> 8)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 4:59 PM, der.hans <pl...@lufthans.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Am 04. Jan, 2018 schwätzte Andrew McRobb so:
>>>>>
>>>>> moin moin Andrew,
>>>>>
>>>>> cool, sounds like having umatrix or NoScript blocking javascript is
>>>>>
>>>> still
>>>>
>>>>> sufficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> Need to make sure 

Re: HTML5 as JS

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Damn Stallman was right again

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/po/javascript-trap.ja-en.html

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 10:52 PM, Andrew McRobb 
wrote:

> JavaScript being the Raccoon? heh
>
> Andrew McRobb
> Full-time Software Developer
> Part-time Freelancer
> mcrobb.info
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 8:46 PM, Ed  wrote:
>
>> More like raccoons to oranges...
>> 8)
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 4:59 PM, der.hans  wrote:
>> > Am 04. Jan, 2018 schwätzte Andrew McRobb so:
>> >
>> > moin moin Andrew,
>> >
>> > cool, sounds like having umatrix or NoScript blocking javascript is
>> still
>> > sufficient.
>> >
>> > Need to make sure 

Re: How to get ffmpeg installed on my system?

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

If Debian based then dpkg -l ffmpeg should to tell you if it is installed. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 2, 2018, at 8:36 PM, James Mcphee <jmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> dpkg makes me think debian or *buntu.  apt-cache search ffmpeg to see 
> packages available that have it in there.  if it were me, i'd probably 
> install dvdrip and use the perl tools that frontend libffmpeg.
> 
>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. 
>> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What distro do you use?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Jan 2, 2018, at 7:53 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote:
>> >
>> > When I tried to run this to convert a video:
>> >
>> > cat workshop2.VOB | ffmpeg -i - workit.mp4
>> >
>> > This was the result:
>> >
>> > ffmpeg: command not found
>> >
>> > When searching my system for ffmpeg, I found lots
>> > of entries, but apparently not the right thing.
>> >
>> > Or ... what do I need to differently to get this to work?
>> >
>> >
>> > locate ffmpeg | fgrep lib
>> > /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstffmpegcolorspace.so
>> > /usr/lib/kde4/ffmpegthumbs.so
>> > /usr/lib/kde4/k3bffmpegdecoder.so
>> > /usr/lib/kde4/kffmpegthumbnailer.so
>> > /usr/lib/kde4/kfilemetadata_ffmpegextractor.so
>> > /usr/lib/transcode/export_ffmpeg.so
>> > /usr/lib/transcode/import_ffmpeg.so
>> > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libffmpegthumbnailer.so.4
>> > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libffmpegthumbnailer.so.4.0.8
>> > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstffmpeg.so
>> > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstffmpegcolorspace.so
>> > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstffmpegscale.so
>> > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libquicktime2/lqt_ffmpeg.so
>> > /usr/share/doc/libffmpegthumbnailer4
>> > /usr/share/doc/libxine1-ffmpeg
>> > /usr/share/doc/libffmpegthumbnailer4/changelog.Debian.gz
>> > /usr/share/doc/libffmpegthumbnailer4/copyright
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/ffmpegthumbs.list
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/ffmpegthumbs.md5sums
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg:amd64.list
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg:amd64.md5sums
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/kffmpegthumbnailer.list
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/kffmpegthumbnailer.md5sums
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.list
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.md5sums
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.postinst
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.postrm
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.shlibs
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libxine1-ffmpeg.list
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libxine1-ffmpeg.md5sums
>> > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libxine1-ffmpeg.postinst
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
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>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> James McPhee
> jmc...@gmail.com
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Re: How to get ffmpeg installed on my system?

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

What distro do you use?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 2, 2018, at 7:53 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote:
> 
> When I tried to run this to convert a video:
> 
> cat workshop2.VOB | ffmpeg -i - workit.mp4
> 
> This was the result:
> 
> ffmpeg: command not found
> 
> When searching my system for ffmpeg, I found lots
> of entries, but apparently not the right thing.
> 
> Or ... what do I need to differently to get this to work?
> 
> 
> locate ffmpeg | fgrep lib
> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstffmpegcolorspace.so
> /usr/lib/kde4/ffmpegthumbs.so
> /usr/lib/kde4/k3bffmpegdecoder.so
> /usr/lib/kde4/kffmpegthumbnailer.so
> /usr/lib/kde4/kfilemetadata_ffmpegextractor.so
> /usr/lib/transcode/export_ffmpeg.so
> /usr/lib/transcode/import_ffmpeg.so
> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libffmpegthumbnailer.so.4
> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libffmpegthumbnailer.so.4.0.8
> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstffmpeg.so
> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstffmpegcolorspace.so
> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstffmpegscale.so
> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libquicktime2/lqt_ffmpeg.so
> /usr/share/doc/libffmpegthumbnailer4
> /usr/share/doc/libxine1-ffmpeg
> /usr/share/doc/libffmpegthumbnailer4/changelog.Debian.gz
> /usr/share/doc/libffmpegthumbnailer4/copyright
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/ffmpegthumbs.list
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/ffmpegthumbs.md5sums
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg:amd64.list
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg:amd64.md5sums
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/kffmpegthumbnailer.list
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/kffmpegthumbnailer.md5sums
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.list
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.md5sums
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.postinst
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.postrm
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libffmpegthumbnailer4.shlibs
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libxine1-ffmpeg.list
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libxine1-ffmpeg.md5sums
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/libxine1-ffmpeg.postinst
> 
> 
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Re: smartphone question

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

inquiring for a friend.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Aaron Jones <retro64...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Only for crimes generally. What are you trying to do?
>
> On Dec 20, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. <
> herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> do most departments off this service?
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Aaron Jones <retro64...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The Police Department.
>>
>> > On Dec 20, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. <
>> herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Does anyone know a reliable service for smartphone forensics?
>> > ---
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>
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Re: smartphone question

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

do most departments off this service?

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Aaron Jones <retro64...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The Police Department.
>
> > On Dec 20, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. <
> herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know a reliable service for smartphone forensics?
> > ---
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smartphone question

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Does anyone know a reliable service for smartphone forensics?
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Re: Dtmf over rj45

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Steve is right you can use RJ45 to transmit. The signal but Ethernet switch are 
expecting Ethernet frames. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 7:18 AM, Stephen Partington  wrote:
> 
> Are you talking about embedding this sort of functional noise into a line 
> being used by ethernet? and yes most quality switches would try to clean up 
> the noise in order to secure the data unless it just created enough of an 
> interruption to just disrupt the connection as a whole.
> 
> RJ45 is a socket type so you can wire it to do whatever you want. you can use 
> cat 4,5,6 cable to transport anything you want. I know multiple sites that 
> wired ethernet cable for POTS just because it gave them the ability to do a 
> number of things based on need. 
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Aaron Jones  wrote:
>> Any one have any experience with dtmf (beeps and boops over phone) but using 
>> rj45 instead of rj11?
>> 
>> I viewed a claim that the intel me can produce dtmf instructions that will 
>> be regarded as noise by tools like wireshark and can be used to transfer 
>> things like encryption keys surreptitiously over the net without being seen 
>> by monitoring tools.
>> 
>> Essentially data is hidden in sight as noise on the line and picked up 
>> somewhere else.
>> 
>> Rj11 phone line can do this. But can it be done with rj45? Wouldn’t the 
>> first switch it hit just smooth noise?
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from 
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
> 
> Stephen
> 
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Re: What is the actual bandwith you could use, continuously, given your ISP's bandwith usage cap?

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Also consider wireless. If you are on wireless depending on where you there
is a great chance you will not even come close to your max bandwidth. This
is because wireless is a shared medium. You are contending with everyone
else that is on your channel. This will most definitely impact your
throughput.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. <
herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Very few if anyone uses the Max of their pipe for a prolonged period. If
> you did it would not be an enjoyable experience. If you were downloading a
> huge file that consumed all your bandwidth and say wanted to watch youtube
> while you wait, well good luck with that. In networking there is bandwidth
> and throughput. Bandwidth is the max that can be transmitted down a link.
> Throughput is what actually gets transferred. Those number are not the
> same. There a ton of factors that determine what your throughput actually
> is. Some examples are upstream congestion, latency, and protocol behavior.
> None of those reasons have anything to do with 'the ISP is trying to screw
> me'. A lot of it is the laws of physics and TCP/IP protocol stack.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here is the rabbit trail – has anyone else calculated the actual
>> bandwidth you could use (continuously) from your ISP and NOT hit their
>> usage cap?  Yeah, that deserves a different topic, and here it is.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok, under my plan at Cox, I think I get threatened with extra charges
>> when I reach 1TB of data downloaded.  (If your number is different,  then
>> use that number below).
>>
>>
>>
>> So, that’s 1,000,000,000,000 bytes of data per month I’m allowed to
>> download.  Sounds like a lot, right?  Nope:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1GB/month  / 60 seconds/minute / 60 minutes/hour / 24 hours/day / 30
>> days/month = 385,802 bytes per second!
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, my wonderful 30Mbs max is actually only a 385KB link, if I want to
>> use it all the time.
>>
>> Balderdash!  (Whatever that means).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: What is the actual bandwith you could use, continuously, given your ISP's bandwith usage cap?

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Very few if anyone uses the Max of their pipe for a prolonged period. If
you did it would not be an enjoyable experience. If you were downloading a
huge file that consumed all your bandwidth and say wanted to watch youtube
while you wait, well good luck with that. In networking there is bandwidth
and throughput. Bandwidth is the max that can be transmitted down a link.
Throughput is what actually gets transferred. Those number are not the
same. There a ton of factors that determine what your throughput actually
is. Some examples are upstream congestion, latency, and protocol behavior.
None of those reasons have anything to do with 'the ISP is trying to screw
me'. A lot of it is the laws of physics and TCP/IP protocol stack.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Carruth, Rusty 
wrote:

> Here is the rabbit trail – has anyone else calculated the actual bandwidth
> you could use (continuously) from your ISP and NOT hit their usage cap?
> Yeah, that deserves a different topic, and here it is.
>
>
>
> Ok, under my plan at Cox, I think I get threatened with extra charges when
> I reach 1TB of data downloaded.  (If your number is different,  then use
> that number below).
>
>
>
> So, that’s 1,000,000,000,000 bytes of data per month I’m allowed to
> download.  Sounds like a lot, right?  Nope:
>
>
>
> 1GB/month  / 60 seconds/minute / 60 minutes/hour / 24 hours/day / 30
> days/month = 385,802 bytes per second!
>
>
>
> Yes, my wonderful 30Mbs max is actually only a 385KB link, if I want to
> use it all the time.
>
> Balderdash!  (Whatever that means).
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: OT: Any Mac Geniuses on the List who can advise on a Mac for Christmas?

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

When it comes to video editing the more RAM the better. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 30, 2017, at 8:16 AM, Mark Phillips  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the great input - especially the refurbished Mac stores!
> 
> A more technical question - am I correct is assuming she needs 16 GB of RAM 
> and a quad core i7 processor to edit 60 minutes of video footage? Or, is this 
> over kill?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 7:27 AM, Stephen Partington  
>> wrote:
>> The 15-inch MBP's have Radeon 555 or 560 graphics with either 2 or 4GB. and 
>> the iMac Pro comes with Radeon Vega Pro based graphics and all the 
>> horsepower (and then some) the Mac Pro came with. My guess they will use 
>> that as the basis for either replacing the Mac Pro or setting its place.
>> 
>>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 7:12 AM, Aaron Jones  wrote:
>>> The new mac pro isn’t really pro any more. If she needs a gpu, they are 
>>> phasing them out right now. So video editing and rendering is all processor 
>>> based now. 
>>> 
>>> Citation : my work just bought me a macbook pro three days ago and it has 
>>> no gpu and no pro had a gpu as an available option. 
>>> 
 On Nov 30, 2017, at 7:08 AM, Stephen Partington  
 wrote:
 
 Getting a machine with a Spinning Disk is an easy upgrade to SSD for less 
 than the apple price difference.
 
> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:49 PM, David Schwartz 
>  wrote:
> I’ve been using Macs regularly since I got a 27” iMac back in 2006.
> 
> I’ve had a few Mac Minis, and both them and the old white iMacs could be 
> opened up (with a little effort) and upgraded.
> 
> Newer stuff is much harder to crack open, although I’m told MBPs can be 
> upgraded without much trouble by removing their bottom (with the right 
> screwdriver).
> 
> Personally, I like to buy equipment that’s slightly behind the leading 
> edge, preferably refurbished, or “nearly new”.
> 
> All MBPs seem tocome now with: quad-core i7, 16GB RAM, and SSDs.
> 
> The variations are: CPU speed, SSD size, and GPU.
> 
> Here’s a tip: you’re going to find the best deals on Apple stuff between 
> Christmas and around the 5th or so of January on eBay.
> 
> College kids who’ve gotten something the previous semester on a student 
> discount suddenly have to leave school, or they need to sell their 
> machine to help pay for school, or something.
> 
> Look for a machine with a “bottom-end” (today) CPU (eg., 2.6GHz i7), 1TB 
> SSD, and a “bottom-end” GPU, with AppleCare.
> 
> The MSRP on MBPs like this online or at the Apple Store will be around 
> $3400. If you’re patient, it’s extremly likely you’ll be able to find one 
> on eBay during this time for $2k give or take a couple hundred, because 
> these folks just want to pay off the balance they owe after a semester of 
> use.
> 
> You can also keep your eye on the Apple Refurbished store online.
> 
> https://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac
> 
> In this case, get a machine that was released 12-18 months ago. You get a 
> full warranty, you can buy AppleCare, and it’s 15-25% off the original 
> price.
> 
> Just because someone doesn’t think they need a laptop for its portability 
> is no reason to avoid them. I keep my 15” MBP sitting on my desk closed 
> most of the time. I have it connected to a 55” 4k monitor, and I use an 
> Apple keyboard, Apple trackpad, and a Logitech USB mouse with it.
> 
> Even if money were no object, I’d be hardpressed to think of a better 
> setup. Maybe a Mac Pro. But I like being able to unplug my MBP and take 
> it with me any time I might want it.
> 
> BTW, regarding Mac hardware, the biggest two factors in price when it 
> comes to their machines is: SSD size and CPU speed.
> 
> On the refurb store, 13” MBPs start at $829 with a spinning HD, and those 
> with SSDs start at $1100. The top-of-the-line 15” is $3569. So there’s a 
> model for almost any budget!
> 
> -David Schwartz
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 8:43 PM, Mark Phillips  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> It is time to upgrade my daughter's 2009 Macbook Pro. She does not need 
>> the portability of a laptop as she uses her iPad for that. He home use 
>> is not that demanding, except that she loves to edit her diving and 
>> vacation movies. She could use a Mac mini, as she has a 23" monitor, 
>> apple keyboard, and apple mouse. However, I am not sure there is enough 
>> RAM and horsepower in a Mac mini, so I have been looking at iMacs as 
>> well. 
>> 
>> My assumptions are she needs at least 16 GB of RAM and a quad core i7 
>> for 

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

It is not that simple nor as cheap as you think. Service provider network
gear is not cheap.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 1:27 AM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:

> by the way, it seems that no one has mentioned that there is a lot of
> unlit fiber laying in the ground going unutilized. considering that each
> fiber can carry anywhere up to 50 gbits/sec, shouldn't those be tasked to
> handle extra traffic? sure, I know there would have to be some extra
> equipment (like load balancers, extra nodes and other equipment), but it is
> doable for a lot less cost than the ISP's would have us believe.
>
> -eric
> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, utilities management.
>
> On Nov 30, 2017, at 1:12 AM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. wrote:
>
> > That makes no sense there is tiny bit it either is or is not. They are
> treated as utilities now and it is still failing because like I have said
> it is a deeply flawed solution.
> >
> > The authors notion that startups will not be able to compete b/c they
> cannot afford fast lanes shows a lack of networking understanding. Fast
> lanes help manage traffic better which helps everyone. Think of highways
> with HOV lanes. They exists to help easy congestion on the road. Networking
> tools like traffic shaping, throttle, and policing of traffic act the same
> way.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 30, 2017, at 12:39 AM, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> repeal
> > ---
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> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

This line right here is the key from that article.

"Net neutrality is intended
<https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/21/technology/net-neutrality-repeal-questions.html>
to
prevent companies that provide internet service from offering preferential
treatment to certain content over their lines. The rules prevent, for
instance, AT from charging a fee to companies that want to stream
high-definition videos to people."

Basically what is being said is that ISPs cannot manage their traffic
period. The very definition of QoS is the preference of some traffic over
others. This how network traffic has been managed since the 1990s. The
reason why it is not working it is because it is asking for that which is
not technically possible.

And as far as Netflix is concerned please take a look at this article. It
clearly shows that Netflix was partly to blame due to their to push more
traffic than the ISPs they were using could carry. It is a great lesson why
we need traffic shaping and how Net Neutrality simply does not work in the
real world.

https://blog.streamingmedia.com/2014/06/netflix-isp-newdata.html


On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. <
herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That makes no sense there is tiny bit it either is or is not. They are
> treated as utilities now and it is still failing because like I have said
> it is a deeply flawed solution.
>
> The authors notion that startups will not be able to compete b/c they
> cannot afford fast lanes shows a lack of networking understanding. Fast
> lanes help manage traffic better which helps everyone. Think of highways
> with HOV lanes. They exists to help easy congestion on the road. Networking
> tools like traffic shaping, throttle, and policing of traffic act the same
> way.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 30, 2017, at 12:39 AM, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > repeal
>
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

That makes no sense there is tiny bit it either is or is not. They are treated 
as utilities now and it is still failing because like I have said it is a 
deeply flawed solution. 

The authors notion that startups will not be able to compete b/c they cannot 
afford fast lanes shows a lack of networking understanding. Fast lanes help 
manage traffic better which helps everyone. Think of highways with HOV lanes. 
They exists to help easy congestion on the road. Networking tools like traffic 
shaping, throttle, and policing of traffic act the same way. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 30, 2017, at 12:39 AM, Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> repeal
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

So if Net Neutrality is failing now why keep it?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:34 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
> 
> yeah. btw, comcast is actively throttling torrent traffic as we speak (it was 
> posted on twitter about an hour ago). they are still throttling netflix. yet, 
> they claim they are abiding by their customer agreement not to do this. so, 
> this pretty much means that comcast (as the ISP) has already proven to lie to 
> their customers and to the FCC. 
> 
> so, given that, what is to stop the other providers (like verizon, AT, cox, 
> TW, T-mobile and others) from behaving just as badly?
> 
> now, the situation is this:
> since 1995 and the initial rollout of DSL, there were some 100 or so ISP's 
> here in the valley. most were still dialup. there was 2 over the air 
> (wireless other than cell) providers, cable was just getting started and 
> dialup was still common. less than 4 years later, fully half of the ISP's 
> have disappeared, broadband was getting cheaper and both the phone company 
> and cable companies had their own in house ISP. 1996 was the turning point 
> with the deregulation of the telco's, thus cutting out others from using DSL. 
> THen you also had big software (such as microsoft) trying to get in on the 
> action (they partnered with USWest, later to become QWest). fast forward to 
> mid 2005.. virtually no independent ISP's existed (or there were very few) 
> and dialup was fast becoming a distant memory in large cities. by this point, 
> you started seeing the consolidation of pathways onto the internet. there was 
> cellular (still slow), cable or DSL (no one uses T-1 or above anymore). With 
> mergers happening well into 2010 and later, the number of available routes to 
> the internet reduced down to the current 6. All of them own the facilities, 
> intervening cable/wire or airspace. anyone trying to compete with that 
> couldn't because those 6 entities have already set price points that no small 
> operator could match (another barrier to entry).
> 
> so, here we are. we have 6 near monopolies with very similar plans, price 
> points, and capabilities. they have grown powerful enough that they can 
> dictate to local municipalities what is allowed or not. They have also 
> lobbied to get protectionist laws put in place to prevent new competition.  
> There are a couple of new operators coming on the scene: satellite internet 
> with planet wide coverage) and also aircraft mobile coverage that can cover 
> most of the land area at any given time. Once those systems are fully 
> operational, it might force the big 6 to take action, or improve their 
> services to compete. btw, a LEO satellite system can have a 400 mile wide 
> footprint and cost pennies to keep operational (we are talking micro 
> satellites here). 
> 
> the big question, will this new scenario improve things or lead to more of 
> the same? Also, how do we, as customers, make sure we have a good choice of 
> services? Will the government have to step in and pull some anti-trust 
> actions?
> 
> lots of complex questions and no easy answers.
> 
> -eric
> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Future engineering Dept.
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:04 PM, Matthew Crews wrote:
>> 
>> I think some of y'all forget that the net neutrality debate isn't really 
>> about QoS, latency, or bandwidth. It is about ISPs intentionally throttling 
>> or blocking services and websites that compete directly with other services 
>> that an ISP might offer, or even for arbitrary reasons or no reasons at all.
>> 
>> Since the vast majority of us are in the Phoenix area, we are likely 
>> serviced by either CenturyLink or Cox for our physical internet, and by 
>> Verizon, AT, Sprint or T-Mobile for cellular internet. Without net 
>> neutrality, Cox will be allowed to throttle services like Hulu, Netflix and 
>> Youtube to horribly slow speeds if they want, while allowing their own 
>> competing television services and streaming services to go through at high 
>> speed; they can "restore" normal speeds for an extra fee, or not. Verizon 
>> could block or throttle access to Google Drive, Apple iDrive, or One Drive, 
>> while freely allowing access to their competing "Verizon Cloud" and "Verizon 
>> Messages". The same with AT and blocking Skype, Google Hangouts, Apple 
>> Facetime, or WhatsApp. Unless of course you pay extra, or not if the ISP 
>> doesn't want you to access a service at all.
>> 
>> In countries that do not have net neutrality, this isn't hypothetical. This 
>> actually happens. See: 
>> https://twitter.com/rokhanna/status/923701871092441088?lang=en
>> 
>> Lets not forget that some ISPs were actively sabotaging certain network 
>> services such as Bittorrent. See: 
>> https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2007/10/evidence-mounts-that-comcast-is-targeting-bittorrent-traffic/
>> 
>> At some point, this does cross the line into corporate censorship if an ISP 
>> is 

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

It is the failure to see the correlation that is frustrating. How do you think 
throttling happens or why technically speaking? The previous system address 
abuses by the ISPs. Net Neutrality is technically flawed b/c it assumes a 
technically flawed premise (ie all traffic can be treated the same). You cannot 
effectively manage a network in 2017 without some traffic shaping. Who gets to 
decide if some decision in traffic management is ‘legitimate’ or ‘abusive’. Do 
you really want a bunch of unelected officials who got their position due who 
they connected to make those calls?  Should ISPs have to gain approval for 
every policy decision to be sure it is not abusive. How do you think this going 
to be enforced? 

The situation you feared was attempted in the past and was dealt with. We 
already have a legal framework to address those abuses. 

Finally let talk about censorship. Who in 2017 is silencing Free Speech? The 
ISPs or Google, Facebook, Twitter? You do not search too hard before you find 
stores of these content providers silencing political speech they deem 
inappropriate. People talk about a Free and Open Internet but do we have that 
now?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:04 PM, Matthew Crews  
> wrote:
> 
> I think some of y'all forget that the net neutrality debate isn't really 
> about QoS, latency, or bandwidth. It is about ISPs intentionally throttling 
> or blocking services and websites that compete directly with other services 
> that an ISP might offer, or even for arbitrary reasons or no reasons at all.
> 
> Since the vast majority of us are in the Phoenix area, we are likely serviced 
> by either CenturyLink or Cox for our physical internet, and by Verizon, AT, 
> Sprint or T-Mobile for cellular internet. Without net neutrality, Cox will be 
> allowed to throttle services like Hulu, Netflix and Youtube to horribly slow 
> speeds if they want, while allowing their own competing television services 
> and streaming services to go through at high speed; they can "restore" normal 
> speeds for an extra fee, or not. Verizon could block or throttle access to 
> Google Drive, Apple iDrive, or One Drive, while freely allowing access to 
> their competing "Verizon Cloud" and "Verizon Messages". The same with AT 
> and blocking Skype, Google Hangouts, Apple Facetime, or WhatsApp. Unless of 
> course you pay extra, or not if the ISP doesn't want you to access a service 
> at all.
> 
> In countries that do not have net neutrality, this isn't hypothetical. This 
> actually happens. See: 
> https://twitter.com/rokhanna/status/923701871092441088?lang=en
> 
> Lets not forget that some ISPs were actively sabotaging certain network 
> services such as Bittorrent. See: 
> https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2007/10/evidence-mounts-that-comcast-is-targeting-bittorrent-traffic/
> 
> At some point, this does cross the line into corporate censorship if an ISP 
> is allowed to arbitrarily block access to websites. Would you want to pay 
> $5/mo for the "right" to access facebook.com, google.com, or ubuntu.com, or 
> play games via Xbox Live or Steam? I sure as hell don't. With net neutrality 
> gone, nothing is stopping this theoretical scenario from actually happening.
> 
> If the goal is to free up network congestion from an ISP perspective, this is 
> easily accomplished by imposing download limits (which Cox most certainly 
> does, as well as all cellular providers, even under "unlimited" plans), and 
> other content-neutral means (such as throttling during a peak time of day). 
> Or ISPs can continue to raise prices.
> 
> -Matt
> ---
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Re: OT: Any Mac Geniuses on the List who can advise on a Mac for Christmas?

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

You can find great Mac deals here. This place is in Phoenix. 

http://theapplexchange.com/wp/home/current-inventory/

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2017, at 8:54 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
> 
> recent vintage mac mini with 4 or 8 GB ram, Core i7 or i9, 256 GB or larger 
> HDD/SDD and superdrive. the upper end units can run about $1,000 and are 
> available online, or at the apple store, fry's electronics or best buy.
> 
> these are reasonably powerful units that don't use a lot of juice.
> 
> hopefully, this helps.
> 
> -eric
> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Sales and hardware support
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 8:43 PM, Mark Phillips wrote:
>> 
>> It is time to upgrade my daughter's 2009 Macbook Pro. She does not need the 
>> portability of a laptop as she uses her iPad for that. He home use is not 
>> that demanding, except that she loves to edit her diving and vacation 
>> movies. She could use a Mac mini, as she has a 23" monitor, apple keyboard, 
>> and apple mouse. However, I am not sure there is enough RAM and horsepower 
>> in a Mac mini, so I have been looking at iMacs as well. 
>> 
>> My assumptions are she needs at least 16 GB of RAM and a quad core i7 for 
>> serious video editing (around an hour of 1080p 60 Hz. video when rendered). 
>> Which puts us up around $1400+. Are my assumptions correct, or off base? 
>> What should we be looking at?
>> 
>> She was a Linux user when she was younger, but then they grow up, go to 
>> college, get a job, get married, and think they know everything;) (she 
>> ditched Linux in college)
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Mark
>> ---
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>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Go for it! I have turned an RPI3 into a router firewall before. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2017, at 3:46 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> well, I am giving serious thought to flashing that unit with DD-WRT. It's 
> that or get a raspberry pie and set that up as the firewall and network 
> manager.
> 
> -eric
> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Gatekeeper's Dept
> 
>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 2:37 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>> 
>> I am not sure how well commercial devices implement QoS. As you saw it is 
>> very powerful. 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> I was trying to optimize throughput to the chrome cast device (video 
>>> streaming). basically, I was trying to dedicate 6 Mbits/sec for IPTV. ran 
>>> into a couple of issues and will have to do further reading on the Asus 
>>> router I am using.
>>> 
>>> -eric
>>> from the central office of the technomage Guild, Network troubleshooting 
>>> div.
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> What exactly were you doing? What NOS were you applying the policies? QoS 
>>>> is an entire suite of tools used for traffic management. It can be as 
>>>> light or heavy as you want it to be.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>> I have actually done performance testing with qoS here. believe me, it 
>>>>> does affect other users on my circuit.  sure, it can be useful, but it's 
>>>>> a sledge hammer where a light touch is required.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -eric
>>>>> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Network Ops Center
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Carruth, Rusty wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I strongly disagree with the statement “which the internet needs to 
>>>>>> function”.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> No, the internet does NOT need QoS in order to function.  Its been 
>>>>>> working fine for years without that.  Its just people trying to do 
>>>>>> things on the internet that it was not designed for who demand QoS in 
>>>>>> order to co-opt the internet for THEIR use.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> If you insist that the internet MUST have QoS to function, then that’s 
>>>>>> the end of the discussion.  Those who believe that must demand NO NN, 
>>>>>> otherwise the internet won’t work the way they think it should.  Those 
>>>>>> who have not bought in to that assumption may be on either side of the 
>>>>>> debate.  But if you buy the theory that QoS is required for the internet 
>>>>>> to function then you must oppose anything that allows the internet to 
>>>>>> function the way it was designed.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> And the point about QoS effectively stealing bandwidth from other users 
>>>>>> is something we’ve not spoken of thus far, as far as I can remember.  
>>>>>> But it is something to keep in mind – hacking the medium to enable 
>>>>>> realtime data reduces the usability of the internet for all people who 
>>>>>> are not using realtime data.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Which brings up a rabbit trail which I’ll start a new thread upon.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Rusty
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> From: PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] On 
>>>>>> Behalf Of Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 3:33 PM
>>>>>> To: Main PLUG discussion list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net 
>>>>>> neutrality debate
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Here is a good definition of QoS from Cisco: "The ability of the network 
>>>>>> to provide better or 'special' service to a set of users/applications to 
>>>>>> the detriment of other users/application". Net Neutrality cannot exist 
>>>>>> in a network where QoS is needed which the internet needs to function.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. 
>>>>>> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com&g

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I am not sure how well commercial devices implement QoS. As you saw it is
very powerful.

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:

> I was trying to optimize throughput to the chrome cast device (video
> streaming). basically, I was trying to dedicate 6 Mbits/sec for IPTV. ran
> into a couple of issues and will have to do further reading on the Asus
> router I am using.
>
> -eric
> from the central office of the technomage Guild, Network troubleshooting
> div.
>
> On Nov 29, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>
> What exactly were you doing? What NOS were you applying the policies? QoS
> is an entire suite of tools used for traffic management. It can be as light
> or heavy as you want it to be.
>
> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> I have actually done performance testing with qoS here. believe me, it
>> does affect other users on my circuit.  sure, it can be useful, but it's a
>> sledge hammer where a light touch is required.
>>
>> -eric
>> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Network Ops Center
>>
>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Carruth, Rusty wrote:
>>
>> I strongly disagree with the statement “which the internet needs to
>> function”.
>>
>> No, the internet does NOT need QoS in order to function.  Its been
>> working fine for years without that.  Its just people trying to do things
>> on the internet that it was not designed for who demand QoS in order to
>> co-opt the internet for THEIR use.
>>
>> If you insist that the internet MUST have QoS to function, then that’s
>> the end of the discussion.  Those who believe that must demand NO NN,
>> otherwise the internet won’t work the way they think it should.  Those who
>> have not bought in to that assumption may be on either side of the debate.
>> But if you buy the theory that QoS is required for the internet to function
>> then you must oppose anything that allows the internet to function the way
>> it was designed.
>>
>> And the point about QoS effectively stealing bandwidth from other users
>> is something we’ve not spoken of thus far, as far as I can remember.  But
>> it is something to keep in mind – hacking the medium to enable realtime
>> data reduces the usability of the internet for all people who are not using
>> realtime data.
>>
>> Which brings up a rabbit trail which I’ll start a new thread upon.
>>
>> Rusty
>>
>> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 28, 2017 3:33 PM
>> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
>> *Subject:* Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net
>> neutrality debate
>>
>> Here is a good definition of QoS from Cisco: "The ability of the network
>> to provide better or 'special' service to a set of users/applications to
>> the detriment of other users/application". Net Neutrality cannot exist in a
>> network where QoS is needed which the internet needs to function.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. <
>> herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I understand your frustration, but to be frank it is unrealistic to think
>> that the industry is going to redesign the physical infrastructure to
>> accommodate voice and video. The ship has sailed there. Converged
>> infrastructure is here to stay. Now the job is to find the best solution
>> for this reality and Net Neutrality is not it IMO.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com>
>> wrote:
>> I’m going to have to switch to inline answers.  See below.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
>> >TCP would not solve the issue. Think about constantly having to ask the
>> person on the other end of a phone conversation to repeat themselves
>> because the sound kept dropping. That would drive you be insane. That is
>> very much like TCP. >Voice and Video traffic simply will not work in
>> that scenario.
>>
>> Which is pretty much to my point.  TCP doesn’t work well for realtime
>> data (unless perhaps you have nobody else on the wire and a perfect wire).
>>
>> So, the first attempt at a workaround was to use UDP, whose performance
>> fits better with ‘almost realtime’ data in a network that was fairly
>> quiet.  When that began to fail because of busy networks, something else
>> wa

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

What exactly were you doing? What NOS were you applying the policies? QoS
is an entire suite of tools used for traffic management. It can be as light
or heavy as you want it to be.

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:

> I have actually done performance testing with qoS here. believe me, it
> does affect other users on my circuit.  sure, it can be useful, but it's a
> sledge hammer where a light touch is required.
>
> -eric
> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Network Ops Center
>
> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Carruth, Rusty wrote:
>
> I strongly disagree with the statement “which the internet needs to
> function”.
>
> No, the internet does NOT need QoS in order to function.  Its been working
> fine for years without that.  Its just people trying to do things on the
> internet that it was not designed for who demand QoS in order to co-opt the
> internet for THEIR use.
>
> If you insist that the internet MUST have QoS to function, then that’s the
> end of the discussion.  Those who believe that must demand NO NN, otherwise
> the internet won’t work the way they think it should.  Those who have not
> bought in to that assumption may be on either side of the debate.  But if
> you buy the theory that QoS is required for the internet to function then
> you must oppose anything that allows the internet to function the way it
> was designed.
>
> And the point about QoS effectively stealing bandwidth from other users is
> something we’ve not spoken of thus far, as far as I can remember.  But it
> is something to keep in mind – hacking the medium to enable realtime data
> reduces the usability of the internet for all people who are not using
> realtime data.
>
> Which brings up a rabbit trail which I’ll start a new thread upon.
>
> Rusty
>
> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 28, 2017 3:33 PM
> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net
> neutrality debate
>
> Here is a good definition of QoS from Cisco: "The ability of the network
> to provide better or 'special' service to a set of users/applications to
> the detriment of other users/application". Net Neutrality cannot exist in a
> network where QoS is needed which the internet needs to function.
>
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. <
> herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand your frustration, but to be frank it is unrealistic to think
> that the industry is going to redesign the physical infrastructure to
> accommodate voice and video. The ship has sailed there. Converged
> infrastructure is here to stay. Now the job is to find the best solution
> for this reality and Net Neutrality is not it IMO.
>
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com>
> wrote:
> I’m going to have to switch to inline answers.  See below.
>
>
>
> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
> >TCP would not solve the issue. Think about constantly having to ask the
> person on the other end of a phone conversation to repeat themselves
> because the sound kept dropping. That would drive you be insane. That is
> very much like TCP. >Voice and Video traffic simply will not work in that
> scenario.
>
> Which is pretty much to my point.  TCP doesn’t work well for realtime data
> (unless perhaps you have nobody else on the wire and a perfect wire).
>
> So, the first attempt at a workaround was to use UDP, whose performance
> fits better with ‘almost realtime’ data in a network that was fairly
> quiet.  When that began to fail because of busy networks, something else
> was needed.
>
> The next attempt seems to be to change the network transport protocol to
> prioritize certain packets over other packets, which is IMHO risky business.
>
> IF, and ONLY IF, there is absolutely no allowance for a transporter of
> packets to give (or remove) special priority to certain packets based upon
> something other than their type (VoIP, video), then the issue of realtime
> data on the interent MIGHT have found a way out of the problem of trying to
> force something onto a medium which it wasn’t designed to handle.  But I
> still feel this is trying to force a design onto something that can’t
> handle it.
>
> In any case, I still think that those who use ‘the internet’ for realtime
> data and wish to force it to do what it was never designed for have MUCH
> more of a requirement to ‘play nice’ than those who use it for what it was
> originally designed.
&

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Let me further explain what I "what these people know". They are people who
pushing claim that packets are just packets who know very well that is
simply not true. This is not a debatable point. I can show you packet
traces of a http connection, a https session, a ssh session, and a
streaming session. Just looking at how they transmit without even diving
into the details will demonstrate how silly that idea is. Those are just
four types! We have not talked about torrents, XMPP, SMTP, DNS, POP, BGP,
SIP, FTP, Telnet ... I can go on but none of those packets behave the same
way and to even think that there people who 'honestly' think that we can
one policy to manage it all is beyond belief. That is what bothers people
(I mean those at the top of this whole debate) do know better.

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. <
herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is avoiding because of supply and demand. The internet has exploded
> in bandwidth use. Even if all the ISPs had 100Gbps backbone connections
> there will come a point when even that is not enough. Plus it is not just
> port speed. Even if you had 1 Tbps (which I am pretty sure does not exist)
> ports you need a CPU fast enough to be able to process the frames and
> packets at line rate. You need enough memory for support the buffering.
> None of this is cheap. So business made the decision it is cheaper to
> oversell at a cheaper price. Now you can “demand” that ISPs must always
> upgrade. However you will not like your bill and that will pretty much
> guarantee no new ISP startups since they probably will not have the capital
> for top line Network gear.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 29, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com>
> wrote:
>
> No, sorry, your understanding of “what these people know” is not correct.
> I do not believe that we should let those who ‘hook stuff together’ hide
> the fact that they have been overselling bandwidth for a long time.
>
>
>
> Probably from the very beginning.
>
>
>
> In the beginning (well, not really, but in 1994-ish time frame), if you
> had a T1 line, you could tell who had a 56K connection, because an FTP or
> other file download from them would max out at 56k.  (I know because I was
> there and did that. Many times.  Sometimes I’d see it bounce around just at
> and below 56K as others used the wire over which I was transferring data (I
> usually assumed it was on their end, but don’t really know for sure)).
>
>
>
> In those days, there were fewer end points with fewer users and no or very
> little ‘realtime’ data, so ISPs could get away with selling more bandwidth
> than they had, or perhaps more reasonable would be to say that the formula
> they used (if any!) for computing how much bandwidth they needed between
> themselves and ‘everyone else’ assumed no realtime data (we didn’t really
> have much if any ‘realtime’ data back in those days as far as I can
> remember), and less loading per customer (that is to say, most customers
> would not utilize the full bandwidth (or a significant portion) of their
> pipe for HOURS at a time).
>
>
>
> Now that the customer has changed, it is time for the ISPs to realize that
> they need to change the formula.  QoS will only postpone the inevitable
> (and probably not for long!).  I’m pretty sure there is not enough
> inter-ISP bandwidth to rationally serve the ‘needs’ of their customers, for
> much longer.
>
>
>
> So, I disagree with the conclusion that ‘there is no avoiding it’ (4th
> sentence below).  What there is no avoiding is the fact that ISPs don’t
> have enough ‘backbone’ bandwidth to handle all their customers. QoS won’t
> fix that, it’s just a bandaid to reduce the available bandwidth for
> non-realtime data users until there is not enough bandwidth even for the
> realtime folks.  (I could have said ‘steal bandwidth from normal,
> non-realtime users’ if I wanted to be more pejorative and say what I really
> feel ;-).
>
>
>
> And, just like running out of IPv4 addresses – that time WILL come.  With
> or without QoS.  (And unfortunately NAT won’t fix THAT problem ;-)
>
>
>
> Your guess as to when that will be is as good as or better than mine…
>
>
>
> Will the day come that ISPs become responsible to their customers to
> actually provide what they are advertising?  I doubt it.  Read your fine
> print.
>
>
>
> (Now, if we had the infrastructure I was advocating for a while, there
> might actually BE enough bandwidth on the backbone.  Oh, well, that will
> probably never happen)
>
>
>
> Anyway, if the ISPs didn’t grossly oversell their available bandwidth,
> this whole debate would sound completely silly.
>
>
&

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

There is avoiding because of supply and demand. The internet has exploded in 
bandwidth use. Even if all the ISPs had 100Gbps backbone connections there will 
come a point when even that is not enough. Plus it is not just port speed. Even 
if you had 1 Tbps (which I am pretty sure does not exist) ports you need a CPU 
fast enough to be able to process the frames and packets at line rate. You need 
enough memory for support the buffering. None of this is cheap. So business 
made the decision it is cheaper to oversell at a cheaper price. Now you can 
“demand” that ISPs must always upgrade. However you will not like your bill and 
that will pretty much guarantee no new ISP startups since they probably will 
not have the capital for top line Network gear. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com> wrote:
> 
> No, sorry, your understanding of “what these people know” is not correct.  I 
> do not believe that we should let those who ‘hook stuff together’ hide the 
> fact that they have been overselling bandwidth for a long time.
>  
> Probably from the very beginning.
>  
> In the beginning (well, not really, but in 1994-ish time frame), if you had a 
> T1 line, you could tell who had a 56K connection, because an FTP or other 
> file download from them would max out at 56k.  (I know because I was there 
> and did that. Many times.  Sometimes I’d see it bounce around just at and 
> below 56K as others used the wire over which I was transferring data (I 
> usually assumed it was on their end, but  don’t really know for sure)).
>  
> In those days, there were fewer end points with fewer users and no or very 
> little ‘realtime’ data, so ISPs could get away with selling more bandwidth 
> than they had, or perhaps more reasonable would be to say that the formula 
> they used (if any!) for computing how much bandwidth they needed between 
> themselves and ‘everyone else’ assumed no realtime data (we didn’t really 
> have much if any ‘realtime’ data back in those days as far as I can 
> remember), and less loading per customer (that is to say, most customers 
> would not utilize the full bandwidth (or a significant portion) of their pipe 
> for HOURS at a time).
>  
> Now that the customer has changed, it is time for the ISPs to realize that 
> they need to change the formula.  QoS will only postpone the inevitable (and 
> probably not for long!).  I’m pretty sure there is not enough inter-ISP 
> bandwidth to rationally serve the ‘needs’ of their customers, for much longer.
>  
> So, I disagree with the conclusion that ‘there is no avoiding it’ (4th 
> sentence below).  What there is no avoiding is the fact that ISPs don’t have 
> enough ‘backbone’ bandwidth to handle all their customers. QoS won’t fix 
> that, it’s just a bandaid to reduce the available bandwidth for non-realtime 
> data users until there is not enough bandwidth even for the realtime folks.  
> (I could have said ‘steal bandwidth from normal, non-realtime users’ if I 
> wanted to be more pejorative and say what I really feel ;-).
>  
> And, just like running out of IPv4 addresses – that time WILL come.  With or 
> without QoS.  (And unfortunately NAT won’t fix THAT problem ;-)
>  
> Your guess as to when that will be is as good as or better than mine…
>  
> Will the day come that ISPs become responsible to their customers to actually 
> provide what they are advertising?  I doubt it.  Read your fine print.
>  
> (Now, if we had the infrastructure I was advocating for a while, there might 
> actually BE enough bandwidth on the backbone.  Oh, well, that will probably 
> never happen)
>  
> Anyway, if the ISPs didn’t grossly oversell their available bandwidth, this 
> whole debate would sound completely silly.
>  
>  
> Rusty
>  
> From: PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] On Behalf 
> Of Herminio Hernandez Jr. 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 10:56 AM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality 
> debate
>  
> Even if there was no voice and video QoS would be needed for simple fact that 
> network congestion exists. QoS has been around since the days of dialup. The 
> world where there is unlimited bandwidth and network interfaces will always 
> transfer at line rate simply does not exist. There is no avoiding it.   
> People will always want more data faster than new infrastructure can be 
> built. 
>  
> This what I find disturbing about the whole debate. There are people who are 
> pushing the idea that packets are just packets and voice, video, data can all 
> be treated the same. These people know better. They know it is not a question 
> if we should manage t

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Even if there was no voice and video QoS would be needed for simple fact that 
network congestion exists. QoS has been around since the days of dialup. The 
world where there is unlimited bandwidth and network interfaces will always 
transfer at line rate simply does not exist. There is no avoiding it.   People 
will always want more data faster than new infrastructure can be built. 

This what I find disturbing about the whole debate. There are people who are 
pushing the idea that packets are just packets and voice, video, data can all 
be treated the same. These people know better. They know it is not a question 
if we should manage the internet but who will manage it. Who’s traffic will get 
priority service, who will not? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com> wrote:
> 
> I strongly disagree with the statement “which the internet needs to function”.
>  
> No, the internet does NOT need QoS in order to function.  Its been working 
> fine for years without that.  Its just people trying to do things on the 
> internet that it was not designed for who demand QoS in order to co-opt the 
> internet for THEIR use.
>  
> If you insist that the internet MUST have QoS to function, then that’s the 
> end of the discussion.  Those who believe that must demand NO NN, otherwise 
> the internet won’t work the way they think it should.  Those who have not 
> bought in to that assumption may be on either side of the debate.  But if you 
> buy the theory that QoS is required for the internet to function then you 
> must oppose anything that allows the internet to function the way it was 
> designed.
>  
> And the point about QoS effectively stealing bandwidth from other users is 
> something we’ve not spoken of thus far, as far as I can remember.  But it is 
> something to keep in mind – hacking the medium to enable realtime data 
> reduces the usability of the internet for all people who are not using 
> realtime data.
>  
> Which brings up a rabbit trail which I’ll start a new thread upon.
>  
> Rusty
>  
> From: PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] On Behalf 
> Of Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 3:33 PM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality 
> debate
>  
> Here is a good definition of QoS from Cisco: "The ability of the network to 
> provide better or 'special' service to a set of users/applications to the 
> detriment of other users/application". Net Neutrality cannot exist in a 
> network where QoS is needed which the internet needs to function.
>  
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. 
> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand your frustration, but to be frank it is unrealistic to think 
> that the industry is going to redesign the physical infrastructure to 
> accommodate voice and video. The ship has sailed there. Converged 
> infrastructure is here to stay. Now the job is to find the best solution for 
> this reality and Net Neutrality is not it IMO.
>  
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com> 
> wrote:
> I’m going to have to switch to inline answers.  See below.
>  
>  
> From: PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] On Behalf 
> Of Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
> 
> >TCP would not solve the issue. Think about constantly having to ask the 
> >person on the other end of a phone conversation to repeat themselves because 
> >the sound kept dropping. That would drive you be insane. That is very much 
> >like TCP. >Voice and Video traffic simply will not work in that scenario. 
>  
> Which is pretty much to my point.  TCP doesn’t work well for realtime data 
> (unless perhaps you have nobody else on the wire and a perfect wire).
>  
> So, the first attempt at a workaround was to use UDP, whose performance fits 
> better with ‘almost realtime’ data in a network that was fairly quiet.  When 
> that began to fail because of busy networks, something else was needed.
>  
> The next attempt seems to be to change the network transport protocol to 
> prioritize certain packets over other packets, which is IMHO risky business.
>  
> IF, and ONLY IF, there is absolutely no allowance for a transporter of 
> packets to give (or remove) special priority to certain packets based upon 
> something other than their type (VoIP, video), then the issue of realtime 
> data on the interent MIGHT have found a way out of the problem of trying to 
> force something onto a medium which it wasn’t designed to handle.  But I 
> still feel this is trying to force a design onto something that can’t

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Whereas I agree with a lot of what you said, I think in a group with
divergent political opinions it would be better to focus on the technical
flaws of Net Neutrality.

On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:

> Below is the text from an article covering net neutrality. It seems that
> we, out here, with our limited view of things might be missing the big
> picture.
>
> what is net neutrality?
> better yet, what is REAL net neutrality?
>
> anywya, this article might illuminate some of the real issues.
>
>
> http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/11/repealing_obamas_net_
> neutrality_a_blow_for_freedom.html
>
>
> November 28, 2017
>
> Repealing Obama's Net Neutrality a Blow for Freedom
>
> By Daniel John Sobieski
>
> The FCC is expected to vote and approve on December 14 Chairman Ajit Pai’s
> proposal to end the so-called “net neutrality” rules imposed by President
> Obama’s FCC in 2015. This has provoked howls from liberals and tech giants
> that this is a blow for Internet freedom and another boon for big business.
> It is exactly the opposite. It is in fact a boon for economic and political
> freedom as are all the other Obama-era regulations rescinded by the Trump
> administration that have promoted economic growth and lessened our
> dependency on big government. As the Washington Examiner notes:
>
> Sometimes you have to wonder how sincere people are when they gnash their
> teeth and pull out their hair over President Trump blocking or reversing an
> Obama-era regulation.
>
> The latest cries of distress about anarchy and market apocalypse can be
> heard about an announcement by the Federal Communications Commission that
> it
> will roll back “net neutrality.”
>
> Net neutrality’s dubious value is made obvious by the misleading way
> Democrats and many news outlets reported the decision. “F.C.C. plans net
> neutrality repeal in a victory for telecoms,” wrote the New York Times.
> Missing from the headline or lede was that the decision was a loss for
> Netflix, Amazon, Google, and other corporate giants that provide content.
>
> Liberals oppose the free flow of information they can’t control and in the
> name of providing equal access to all they sought to regulate the access of
> everybody. They., in effect, sought to put toll booths and speed bumps on
> the information superhighway. As the Daily Signal reported:
>
> On Wednesday, FCC Chairman Ajit Pai revealed his most important change yet:
> eliminating the spectacularly nonsensical “net neutrality” rules imposed by
> President Barack Obama’s FCC in 2015.
>
> The 2015 rules deemed internet service providers such as Verizon and
> Comcast
> to be “common carriers” under the 80-year-old Communications Act.
>
> This allowed the FCC to subject those companies to meticulous FCC control
> over how they provide service --specifically, net neutrality rules
> requiring
> providers to treat all internet transmissions equally, even if the sender
> or
> consumer would prefer customized service.
>
> Not surprisingly, investment in broadband networks subsequently declined,
> and innovation -- such as certain free data service plans -- was
> threatened.
>
>
> But Wednesday, the FCC chairman revealed plans to repeal the 2015 Open
> Internet Order and return to what he described as “the light-touch
> regulatory framework that served our nation so well.”
>
> President Obama feared the free flow of information as a threat to his
> power
> grabs and attempt to fundamentally transform the United States. Just as
> cable news eliminated the old guard network’s role as gatekeepers of what
> we
> saw and heard, the Internet freed information consumers to seek the truth
> and speak their minds in an unfettered environment.
>
> Under net neutrality, the FCC took for itself the power to regulate how
> Internet providers manage their networks and how they serve their
> customers.
> The FCC would decide how and what information could flow through the
> Internet, all in the name of providing access to the alleged victims of
> corporate greed.
>
> The Internet, perhaps as much as the first printing press, has freed the
> minds of men from the tyranny of those gatekeepers who know that if you can
> control what people say and know, you can control the people themselves.
> And
> that is what President Obama feared. In a May 2010 commencement speech to
> graduates at Hampton University in Virginia, President Obama complained
> that
> too much information is actually a threat to democracy.
>
> Obama’s fear of Internet freedom and the free flow of information was noted
> by Investor’s Business Daily when it editorialized in 2014:
>
> We would suggest that it is because Obama has long opposed the free flow of
> information as a hindrance to his ambitious big-government agenda, an
> animus
> that started with diatribes against cable outlets such as Fox News and
> conservative talk radio.
>
> In a 2010 speech to graduates at Hampton University in 

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Here is a good definition of QoS from Cisco: "The ability of the network to
provide better or 'special' service to a set of users/applications to the
detriment of other users/application". Net Neutrality cannot exist in a
network where QoS is needed which the internet needs to function.

On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. <
herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I understand your frustration, but to be frank it is unrealistic to think
> that the industry is going to redesign the physical infrastructure to
> accommodate voice and video. The ship has sailed there. Converged
> infrastructure is here to stay. Now the job is to find the best solution
> for this reality and Net Neutrality is not it IMO.
>
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I’m going to have to switch to inline answers.  See below.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
>>
>> >TCP would not solve the issue. Think about constantly having to ask the
>> person on the other end of a phone conversation to repeat themselves
>> because the sound kept dropping. That would drive you be insane. That is
>> very much like TCP. >Voice and Video traffic simply will not work in
>> that scenario.
>>
>>
>>
>> Which is pretty much to my point.  TCP doesn’t work well for realtime
>> data (unless perhaps you have nobody else on the wire and a perfect wire).
>>
>>
>>
>> So, the first attempt at a workaround was to use UDP, whose performance
>> fits better with ‘almost realtime’ data in a network that was fairly
>> quiet.  When that began to fail because of busy networks, something else
>> was needed.
>>
>>
>>
>> The next attempt seems to be to change the network transport protocol to
>> prioritize certain packets over other packets, which is IMHO risky business.
>>
>>
>>
>> IF, and ONLY IF, there is absolutely no allowance for a transporter of
>> packets to give (or remove) special priority to certain packets based upon
>> something other than their type (VoIP, video), then the issue of realtime
>> data on the interent MIGHT have found a way out of the problem of trying to
>> force something onto a medium which it wasn’t designed to handle.  But I
>> still feel this is trying to force a design onto something that can’t
>> handle it.
>>
>>
>>
>> In any case, I still think that those who use ‘the internet’ for realtime
>> data and wish to force it to do what it was never designed for have MUCH
>> more of a requirement to ‘play nice’ than those who use it for what it was
>> originally designed.
>>
>>
>>
>> > You are right ethernet was not designed for voice and video in mind,
>> but that is where we are at and it is not changing.
>>
>>
>>
>> So then you should reject any attempt to cram a bad design onto something
>> that wasn’t designed for it.  Which those against any sort of net
>> neutrality seem to be trying to do – force a bad design on the wrong medium
>> (assuming I have half a clue as to what NN is SUPPOSED to be).
>>
>>
>>
>> Those who wish to transport realtime data over a network should design a
>> network that can do that, not co-opt somebody else’s network.  Again, IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rusty
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Carruth, Rusty <
>> rusty.carr...@smartm.com> wrote:
>>
>> I still disagree.
>>
>>
>>
>> First, if they needed reliable delivery of packets, then they should use
>> TCP.
>>
>>
>>
>> My understanding of the ‘theory’ of why streaming services use UDP is
>> that it doesn’t hurt ‘much’ if you lose a ‘few’ packets – not as much as
>> them showing up in the wrong order, or massively delayed, so using UDP is a
>> workaround to try to use a medium that wasn’t actually designed to carry
>> realtime data.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, I go with the line of reasoning that claims that using ‘the internet’
>> for real-time data is to misuse the medium.  And if a medium is misused,
>> those so misusing it shouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t work in a way it
>> wasn’t designed to do.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, it doesn’t work well with real-time data.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wasn’t intended to, IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (Just a grumpy old man who knows that the internet pre-existed the g

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I understand your frustration, but to be frank it is unrealistic to think
that the industry is going to redesign the physical infrastructure to
accommodate voice and video. The ship has sailed there. Converged
infrastructure is here to stay. Now the job is to find the best solution
for this reality and Net Neutrality is not it IMO.

On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com>
wrote:

> I’m going to have to switch to inline answers.  See below.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
>
> >TCP would not solve the issue. Think about constantly having to ask the
> person on the other end of a phone conversation to repeat themselves
> because the sound kept dropping. That would drive you be insane. That is
> very much like TCP. >Voice and Video traffic simply will not work in that
> scenario.
>
>
>
> Which is pretty much to my point.  TCP doesn’t work well for realtime data
> (unless perhaps you have nobody else on the wire and a perfect wire).
>
>
>
> So, the first attempt at a workaround was to use UDP, whose performance
> fits better with ‘almost realtime’ data in a network that was fairly
> quiet.  When that began to fail because of busy networks, something else
> was needed.
>
>
>
> The next attempt seems to be to change the network transport protocol to
> prioritize certain packets over other packets, which is IMHO risky business.
>
>
>
> IF, and ONLY IF, there is absolutely no allowance for a transporter of
> packets to give (or remove) special priority to certain packets based upon
> something other than their type (VoIP, video), then the issue of realtime
> data on the interent MIGHT have found a way out of the problem of trying to
> force something onto a medium which it wasn’t designed to handle.  But I
> still feel this is trying to force a design onto something that can’t
> handle it.
>
>
>
> In any case, I still think that those who use ‘the internet’ for realtime
> data and wish to force it to do what it was never designed for have MUCH
> more of a requirement to ‘play nice’ than those who use it for what it was
> originally designed.
>
>
>
> > You are right ethernet was not designed for voice and video in mind,
> but that is where we are at and it is not changing.
>
>
>
> So then you should reject any attempt to cram a bad design onto something
> that wasn’t designed for it.  Which those against any sort of net
> neutrality seem to be trying to do – force a bad design on the wrong medium
> (assuming I have half a clue as to what NN is SUPPOSED to be).
>
>
>
> Those who wish to transport realtime data over a network should design a
> network that can do that, not co-opt somebody else’s network.  Again, IMHO.
>
>
>
> Rusty
>
>
>
> > On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Carruth, Rusty <
> rusty.carr...@smartm.com> wrote:
>
> I still disagree.
>
>
>
> First, if they needed reliable delivery of packets, then they should use
> TCP.
>
>
>
> My understanding of the ‘theory’ of why streaming services use UDP is that
> it doesn’t hurt ‘much’ if you lose a ‘few’ packets – not as much as them
> showing up in the wrong order, or massively delayed, so using UDP is a
> workaround to try to use a medium that wasn’t actually designed to carry
> realtime data.
>
>
>
> So, I go with the line of reasoning that claims that using ‘the internet’
> for real-time data is to misuse the medium.  And if a medium is misused,
> those so misusing it shouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t work in a way it
> wasn’t designed to do.
>
>
>
> Yes, it doesn’t work well with real-time data.
>
>
>
> Wasn’t intended to, IMHO.
>
>
>
>
>
> (Just a grumpy old man who knows that the internet pre-existed the guy who
> claims to have invented it…  And who even knows what ftp, telnet, rcp,
> gopher, and uucp used to mean ;-)  (and who performed tests to prove that,
> between two Solaris boxes on a COAX ‘ethernet’ cable, FTP was faster than
> anything else.  But I digress! ;-)
>
>
>
> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:28 PM
>
>
> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net
> neutrality debate
>
>
>
> Rusty,
>
>
>
> I know my language was strong but let explain why, First not all traffic
> behaves the same. Go back to my initial post on the differences between TCP
> and UDP. UDP by the nature of the protocol is more sensitive to things like
&

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

TCP would not solve the issue. Think about constantly having to ask the
person on the other end of a phone conversation to repeat themselves
because the sound kept dropping. That would drive you be insane. That is
very much like TCP. Voice and Video traffic simply will not work in that
scenario.

You are right ethernet was not designed for voice and video in mind, but
that is where we are at and it is not changing.

On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com>
wrote:

> I still disagree.
>
>
>
> First, if they needed reliable delivery of packets, then they should use
> TCP.
>
>
>
> My understanding of the ‘theory’ of why streaming services use UDP is that
> it doesn’t hurt ‘much’ if you lose a ‘few’ packets – not as much as them
> showing up in the wrong order, or massively delayed, so using UDP is a
> workaround to try to use a medium that wasn’t actually designed to carry
> realtime data.
>
>
>
> So, I go with the line of reasoning that claims that using ‘the internet’
> for real-time data is to misuse the medium.  And if a medium is misused,
> those so misusing it shouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t work in a way it
> wasn’t designed to do.
>
>
>
> Yes, it doesn’t work well with real-time data.
>
>
>
> Wasn’t intended to, IMHO.
>
>
>
>
>
> (Just a grumpy old man who knows that the internet pre-existed the guy who
> claims to have invented it…  And who even knows what ftp, telnet, rcp,
> gopher, and uucp used to mean ;-)  (and who performed tests to prove that,
> between two Solaris boxes on a COAX ‘ethernet’ cable, FTP was faster than
> anything else.  But I digress! ;-)
>
>
>
> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Herminio Hernandez, Jr.
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:28 PM
>
> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net
> neutrality debate
>
>
>
> Rusty,
>
>
>
> I know my language was strong but let explain why, First not all traffic
> behaves the same. Go back to my initial post on the differences between TCP
> and UDP. UDP by the nature of the protocol is more sensitive to things like
> packet loss, latency, etc. So in order to deliver UDP services reliably (ie
> most streaming services) some type of prioritization must occur. If not
> then video will be constantly buffering and VoIP calls will drop. The
> reason why there exist QoS policies is because engineers are try to work
> with the transport medium we have. Bandwidth is a limited resource and you
> have all these different types of traffic contending for the same resource.
> If people expect web browsing, YouTube, Mumble, Netflix, SFTP, all run
> efficiently across the wire then prioritization is a reality that will not
> go away. This is nature of modern networks where data, voice and video are
> all converged on the same media. The reason I used the language I did was
> b/c an engineer who does not understands this and actually thinks that 'all
> traffic' can be treated the same will actually bring harm to the network.
> He will be doing a great disservice to users he supporting all under the
> false notion of 'equality'.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yes, lets get back to the technical issues.
>
> First, though let me review: Apparently an ISP has been targeting certain
> SITES or DOMAINS and throttling them.  If that the case, then a discussion
> of the network issues is beside the point - the issue of treating certain
> endpoints differently based upon some non-technical issue would be the
> issue.
>
> Anyway, that being said -
>
> I was actually somewhat offended when the statement was made claiming that
> anyone who believes that all traffic, regardless of type (voice, file, web
> pages, etc) should be treated the same was an idiot.
>
> On what basis is someone who thinks that a certain type of traffic
> DESERVES a different assurance of throughput against any OTHER type of
> traffic?  If the entity using a certain transport mechanism has different
> requirements than the transport medium can provide, then they are the
> unwise ones.  And have no right to demand that the transport medium change
> to accommodate their demands.
>
> Especially at everyone else's expense.
>
> Why does VoIP or Video REQUIRE special treatment?  I claim that either the
> systems which use these technologies either figure out ways to work within
> the limitations of the medium, or find a different medium.  Don’t demand
> that the medium ADD special treatment for you.
>
> One might then say that having the use

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Rusty,

I know my language was strong but let explain why, First not all traffic
behaves the same. Go back to my initial post on the differences between TCP
and UDP. UDP by the nature of the protocol is more sensitive to things like
packet loss, latency, etc. So in order to deliver UDP services reliably (ie
most streaming services) some type of prioritization must occur. If not
then video will be constantly buffering and VoIP calls will drop. The
reason why there exist QoS policies is because engineers are try to work
with the transport medium we have. Bandwidth is a limited resource and you
have all these different types of traffic contending for the same resource.
If people expect web browsing, YouTube, Mumble, Netflix, SFTP, all run
efficiently across the wire then prioritization is a reality that will not
go away. This is nature of modern networks where data, voice and video are
all converged on the same media. The reason I used the language I did was
b/c an engineer who does not understands this and actually thinks that 'all
traffic' can be treated the same will actually bring harm to the network.
He will be doing a great disservice to users he supporting all under the
false notion of 'equality'.

On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Carruth, Rusty <rusty.carr...@smartm.com>
wrote:

> Yes, lets get back to the technical issues.
>
> First, though let me review: Apparently an ISP has been targeting certain
> SITES or DOMAINS and throttling them.  If that the case, then a discussion
> of the network issues is beside the point - the issue of treating certain
> endpoints differently based upon some non-technical issue would be the
> issue.
>
> Anyway, that being said -
>
> I was actually somewhat offended when the statement was made claiming that
> anyone who believes that all traffic, regardless of type (voice, file, web
> pages, etc) should be treated the same was an idiot.
>
> On what basis is someone who thinks that a certain type of traffic
> DESERVES a different assurance of throughput against any OTHER type of
> traffic?  If the entity using a certain transport mechanism has different
> requirements than the transport medium can provide, then they are the
> unwise ones.  And have no right to demand that the transport medium change
> to accommodate their demands.
>
> Especially at everyone else's expense.
>
> Why does VoIP or Video REQUIRE special treatment?  I claim that either the
> systems which use these technologies either figure out ways to work within
> the limitations of the medium, or find a different medium.  Don’t demand
> that the medium ADD special treatment for you.
>
> One might then say that having the user pay extra for the special
> treatment would address this, and not force the cost of this on to all
> users, but this opens the door for a medium provider to use their
> (essentially) monopoly position to materially affect the open market in
> ways which could easily damage the open market.
>
>
> (I was tempted to say something about 'in the beginning, all traffic was
> just packets - and they still are just packets'. ;-)
>
> All the above has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the company I work for,
> its IMHO.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.phxlinux.org] On
> Behalf Of Herminio Hernandez Jr.
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 7:44 AM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net
> neutrality debate
>
> I do not what you are getting at? Yes we all look at Net Neutrality
> through the lens of our assumptions on how the economy should be built. I
> am sure many would believe that government should a significant role is
> managing and others not. Most of this thread has focused on that.
>
> I would love to discuss more the technical side of the debate. The first
> part of original post thread were the technical reasons why I felt NN was
> bad policy.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 28, 2017, at 7:24 AM, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:52:04 -0700
> > "Herminio Hernandez Jr. " <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> First since I do not believe in
> >
> >> central planning
> >  
> >
> >> I do not know what
> >> competitors will once they have the freedom to offer services. This
> >> what is awesome about the
> >
> >
> >> Free Market,
> >  ^^^
> >
> >> if there is market that was
> >> moved closed off now open they will find creative ways to provide
> >> services.
> >
> > Looks to me like Net Neutrality is being used as a 

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

I do not what you are getting at? Yes we all look at Net Neutrality through the 
lens of our assumptions on how the economy should be built. I am sure many 
would believe that government should a significant role is managing and others 
not. Most of this thread has focused on that. 

I would love to discuss more the technical side of the debate. The first part 
of original post thread were the technical reasons why I felt NN was bad 
policy. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 28, 2017, at 7:24 AM, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:52:04 -0700
> "Herminio Hernandez Jr. " <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> First since I do not believe in 
> 
>> central planning 
>  
> 
>> I do not know what
>> competitors will once they have the freedom to offer services. This
>> what is awesome about the 
> 
> 
>> Free Market, 
>  ^^^
> 
>> if there is market that was
>> moved closed off now open they will find creative ways to provide
>> services. 
> 
> Looks to me like Net Neutrality is being used as a proxy for some
> much more generic theories.
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

First since I do not believe in central planning I do not know what competitors 
will once they have the freedom to offer services. This what is awesome about 
the Free Market, if there is market that was moved closed off now open they 
will find creative ways to provide services. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 10:43 PM, Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:11:02 -0700
> Eric Oyen  wrote:
> 
>> The days of
>> dialup internet are also long gone. who would spend $19 a month for
>> 56k when you can get that price point on 1 Mbit service?
> 
> Many people way out in the country have no wired connection except
> phone lines, 56k, and if that's all they've got, they'll pay their
> $50/month for it (no alternative, remember?).
> 
> But more to the point, today's average website takes 5 minutes to load
> on dialup. I'm proud that most pages on Troubleshooters.Com still
> load reasonably well on dialup. Perhaps that doesn't improve my bottom
> line, but I think it makes me a good citizen.
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
> ---
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> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

I agree the limited of choices is an issue but that was a result of government 
meddling in telecom space allowing ISPs to have monopoly power. The answer to 
that is to lobby for that power to be removed not import more government 
intervention that will have more adverse effects. Taken all that aside the 
internet is no where near the same thing as the telephone service and try and 
treat them the same is unrealistic. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 8:11 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> in this case, I believe that steve might be the more correct on this issue.
> 
> try finding a paper application these days. about the only places I see this 
> are government offices.
> 
> try finding broadband other than cox, century link, dish. The days of dialup 
> internet are also long gone. who would spend $19 a month for 56k when you can 
> get that price point on 1 Mbit service?
> 
> also, there is no municipal internet anymore (except in very small areas of 
> tempe) the ISP's (such cox, comcast, etc) have petitioned or lobbied to have 
> that struck down add to this the barrier to entry that both the cable and DSL 
> providers have in place, and you have a recipe for monopolistic control of 
> access to the internet.
> 
> now, there has already been a recent case where a big provider (in this case: 
> comcast) deliberately throttled traffic from a video vendor for over 2 months 
> that same broadband operator has also been caught inserting redirects, 
> throttling other services and in one case, even denying service to specific 
> content through their broadband connection (ostensibly because it was a 
> competing vendor)
> 
> so, back when the telco lines were utility regulated, there were many ISP's 
> and a lot of available entrances onto the net. since 2010, that has been 
> whittled down to a half dozen providers, all of which control 95% of all the 
> access to the internet in urban areas and city centers. also, if you live in 
> a rural location, you stand a far higher chance of not having service (last 
> mile expenses being the justified reason).
> 
> so, with only 2,3 or even 4 choices, all of which offer similar packaging at 
> nearly the same price points, is not much of a choice at all.
> 
> -eric
> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, you can't get here from 
> there Dept.
> 
>> On Nov 27, 2017, at 6:08 PM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. wrote:
>> 
>> Steve we just fundamentally disagree. The idea that rolling back NN will 
>> result in weekly outcries and basically the end of the internet  borders on 
>> hysteria. I am all for a Free and Open Internet, however I strongly disagree 
>> that Net Neutrality is the answer. It asks for that which is technically not 
>> feasible. The idea that you can treat the internet like POTS  lines is 
>> laughable to anyone who understands networking. I would never trust anyone 
>> who called themselves a network engineer who said ‘yeah you can treat voice, 
>> video, and data traffic the same way’. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 27, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:30:25 -0700
>>> "Herminio Hernandez, Jr." <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Here is a good presentation by Bryan Lunduke on NN
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csK3KspB-6A
>>> 
>>> I got to time marker 7:20 on that video, which is already more than I
>>> had time for, and just based on 0-7:20, I call bullshit. The guy first
>>> says, "yeah, there was throttling by the big ISPs, but through public
>>> outcry and lawsuits they were stopped."
>>> 
>>> Maybe we don't want to resume lawsuits and public outcry every few
>>> weeks when one deep pocket ISP or another throttles or sabotages a
>>> competitor or web presence they don't like. Maybe some of us don't like
>>> paying lawyers.
>>> 
>>> Then, around the seven minute mark, he says something to the effect
>>> that when ISPs throttled, customers switched ISPs. Out of touch much?
>>> Where I live, you have a choice of Spectrum, or the Centurylink phone
>>> company who can give me about 2MBit down, without satellite latency,
>>> because I'm more than 10K feet from their nearest plant. Much more of
>>> the populace is like me (or in a worse situation) than like wherever
>>> Lunduke lives. 
>>> 
>>> When I want a tool, I can go to Home Depot, Lowes, True Value, Ace,
>>> Harbor Freight, and if I want a cheap junk tool, Walmart. When I want
>>

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Steve we just fundamentally disagree. The idea that rolling back NN will result 
in weekly outcries and basically the end of the internet  borders on hysteria. 
I am all for a Free and Open Internet, however I strongly disagree that Net 
Neutrality is the answer. It asks for that which is technically not feasible. 
The idea that you can treat the internet like POTS  lines is laughable to 
anyone who understands networking. I would never trust anyone who called 
themselves a network engineer who said ‘yeah you can treat voice, video, and 
data traffic the same way’. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:30:25 -0700
> "Herminio Hernandez, Jr." <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Here is a good presentation by Bryan Lunduke on NN
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csK3KspB-6A
> 
> I got to time marker 7:20 on that video, which is already more than I
> had time for, and just based on 0-7:20, I call bullshit. The guy first
> says, "yeah, there was throttling by the big ISPs, but through public
> outcry and lawsuits they were stopped."
> 
> Maybe we don't want to resume lawsuits and public outcry every few
> weeks when one deep pocket ISP or another throttles or sabotages a
> competitor or web presence they don't like. Maybe some of us don't like
> paying lawyers.
> 
> Then, around the seven minute mark, he says something to the effect
> that when ISPs throttled, customers switched ISPs. Out of touch much?
> Where I live, you have a choice of Spectrum, or the Centurylink phone
> company who can give me about 2MBit down, without satellite latency,
> because I'm more than 10K feet from their nearest plant. Much more of
> the populace is like me (or in a worse situation) than like wherever
> Lunduke lives. 
> 
> When I want a tool, I can go to Home Depot, Lowes, True Value, Ace,
> Harbor Freight, and if I want a cheap junk tool, Walmart. When I want
> broadband with 21st century uplink and downlink speed that doesn't go
> down in rainstorms, I've got Spectrum, Spectrum and Spectrum. Six tool
> vendors I can get to compete for my business, but one broadband vendor.
> 
> So Lunduke says they throttle if they can get away with it, and he
> implies a falsehood when he speaks of switching vendors. This is
> exactly my point. If every American had six possible ISPs, and if the
> US enforced their antitrust laws and prosecuted collusion, there would
> be no need for net neutrality. I hope to someday see such a situation,
> but til then, ISPs need to be regulated like utilities.
> 
> One more thing. Lunduke keeps referring to the golden age before 2015.
> Well, in 2014, there were still paper alternatives if you couldn't use
> the Internet. You could still fill out paper job applications. You
> could still buy goods in a vibrant brick and mortar marketplace. Those
> days are gone: The Internet is now a necessity, and in most locations
> Internet providers are a monopoly. They need to be regulated as
> utilities: Same as electricity.
> 
> If you want to take a stand, why not write to congress telling them to
> pass a law invalidating all the state laws preventing municipalities
> from providing Internet to their citizens. Take a stand for competition.
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
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Re: Thoughts on exercise.io

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Yup

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 26, 2017, at 6:19 PM, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you mean http://exercism.io ?
> 
>> On 2017-11-26 17:51, Herminio Hernandez Jr. wrote:
>> I have been using exercise.io to help learn languages like python or
>> C. Has anyone else used it and share their thoughts on it?
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Thoughts on exercise.io

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

I have been using exercise.io to help learn languages like python or C. Has 
anyone else used it and share their thoughts on it?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: options to redirect through static IP?

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Yup you need a static ip. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 26, 2017, at 5:41 PM, David Schwartz <newslett...@thetoolwiz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I just got this from them:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Thanks for getting back to us.
>> 
>> In-order to enable the jail-shell access we need your static ip. If you 
>> don't have a static IP, there is no point in continually white listing IPs 
>> that will be irrelevant within 24 hours. It makes things a nightmare to 
>> track.
>> 
>> Please let us know your ip so that we can white-list the same in the server 
>> and enable shell access.
>> 
>> Please let us know your thoughts on this.
> 
> 
> 
> -David Schwartz
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 26, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. 
>> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> If they want to restrict external access then they are using some form of 
>> access-list. Firewalls can process static ip addresses much faster than DNS 
>> domain names. I would get VPS like digital ocean. You can get a cheap server 
>> for $5/mo and set up OpenVPN or an SSH proxy.
>> 
>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 5:18 PM, David Schwartz <newslett...@thetoolwiz.com> 
>> wrote:
>>> I’ve got a shared hosting account and asked if I’m able to install a git 
>>> repo host (eg., from gitlab) so I can use it to host my own private git 
>>> repos.
>>> 
>>> I’m not very famliar with git or hosting it, but I understand that It 
>>> requires an SSH connection for the transfers.
>>> 
>>> I asked the support folks, and they replied that they can do that, but they 
>>> need to configure it so the SSH uses a static IP so they can white-list it 
>>> in their firewall.
>>> 
>>> That requires me to always access it from the same place, which seems a bit 
>>> over-restrictive for my needs.
>>> 
>>> (I have Cox internet at home, so I probably have a static IP most of the 
>>> time, at least until I reboot my modem and it allocates a different IP.)
>>> 
>>> I’m wondering if there are any options where I could use, say, a VPN, to 
>>> set up a redirect such that the outgoing IP for the SSH is always static?
>>> 
>>> Anybody familiar with git is free to offer alternatives. Frankly, I’m not 
>>> sure why it would be built exculsively on using SSH as the data channel. 
>>> Doesn’t it have any other means of connecting to it?
>>> 
>>> Alternatively, this hosting account is a reseller account, and while I’m 
>>> not exactly sure how many IPs they give me, I know they’re all static.
>>> 
>>> So I could set up another domain on the same host with something that lets 
>>> me do a redirect to the SSH on the other domain where git is hosted?
>>> 
>>> Alternatively, what’s wrong with just using a port for the SSH channel way 
>>> up in the 20,000 range?
>>> 
>>> I get their concern with security, but … solving the problem with a static 
>>> IP seems so 1990ish.
>>> 
>>> Suggestions are welcome.
>>> 
>>> -David Schwartz
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> 
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> 
> 
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Re: options to redirect through static IP?

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

You can also see if allow for dns entries in their firewall policy (some do). 
Then set up dynamic DNS. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 26, 2017, at 5:30 PM, David Schwartz  
> wrote:
> 
> I know I can use other ports. That’s not the issue.
> 
> I’m looking for an alternative to a static IP, because it locks me to only 
> one location.
> 
> -David Schwartz
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 26, 2017, at 5:18 PM, David Schwartz  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve got a shared hosting account and asked if I’m able to install a git 
>> repo host (eg., from gitlab) so I can use it to host my own private git 
>> repos.
>> 
>> I’m not very famliar with git or hosting it, but I understand that It 
>> requires an SSH connection for the transfers.
>> 
>> I asked the support folks, and they replied that they can do that, but they 
>> need to configure it so the SSH uses a static IP so they can white-list it 
>> in their firewall.
>> 
>> That requires me to always access it from the same place, which seems a bit 
>> over-restrictive for my needs.
>> 
>> (I have Cox internet at home, so I probably have a static IP most of the 
>> time, at least until I reboot my modem and it allocates a different IP.)
>> 
>> I’m wondering if there are any options where I could use, say, a VPN, to set 
>> up a redirect such that the outgoing IP for the SSH is always static?
>> 
>> Anybody familiar with git is free to offer alternatives. Frankly, I’m not 
>> sure why it would be built exculsively on using SSH as the data channel. 
>> Doesn’t it have any other means of connecting to it?
>> 
>> Alternatively, this hosting account is a reseller account, and while I’m not 
>> exactly sure how many IPs they give me, I know they’re all static.
>> 
>> So I could set up another domain on the same host with something that lets 
>> me do a redirect to the SSH on the other domain where git is hosted?
>> 
>> Alternatively, what’s wrong with just using a port for the SSH channel way 
>> up in the 20,000 range?
>> 
>> I get their concern with security, but … solving the problem with a static 
>> IP seems so 1990ish.
>> 
>> Suggestions are welcome.
>> 
>> -David Schwartz
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> 
> 
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Re: options to redirect through static IP?

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

If they want to restrict external access then they are using some form of
access-list. Firewalls can process static ip addresses much faster than DNS
domain names. I would get VPS like digital ocean. You can get a cheap
server for $5/mo and set up OpenVPN or an SSH proxy.

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 5:18 PM, David Schwartz 
wrote:

> I’ve got a shared hosting account and asked if I’m able to install a git
> repo host (eg., from gitlab) so I can use it to host my own private git
> repos.
>
> I’m not very famliar with git or hosting it, but I understand that It
> requires an SSH connection for the transfers.
>
> I asked the support folks, and they replied that they can do that, but
> they need to configure it so the SSH uses a static IP so they can
> white-list it in their firewall.
>
> That requires me to always access it from the same place, which seems a
> bit over-restrictive for my needs.
>
> (I have Cox internet at home, so I probably have a static IP most of the
> time, at least until I reboot my modem and it allocates a different IP.)
>
> I’m wondering if there are any options where I could use, say, a VPN, to
> set up a redirect such that the outgoing IP for the SSH is always static?
>
> Anybody familiar with git is free to offer alternatives. Frankly, I’m not
> sure why it would be built exculsively on using SSH as the data channel.
> Doesn’t it have any other means of connecting to it?
>
> Alternatively, this hosting account is a reseller account, and while I’m
> not exactly sure how many IPs they give me, I know they’re all static.
>
> So I could set up another domain on the same host with something that lets
> me do a redirect to the SSH on the other domain where git is hosted?
>
> Alternatively, what’s wrong with just using a port for the SSH channel way
> up in the 20,000 range?
>
> I get their concern with security, but … solving the problem with a static
> IP seems so 1990ish.
>
> Suggestions are welcome.
>
> -David Schwartz
>
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
---
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Here is another great video worth considering. It is very long but
informative https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z_nBhfpmk4

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 10:30 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. <
herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Here is a good presentation by Bryan Lunduke on NN
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csK3KspB-6A
>
> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 10:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. <
> herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My point was those abuses were addressed without the need of NN in the
>> past. NN IMO was a too heavy handed and misguided approach to a situation
>> which the previous system took care of.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 25, 2017, at 9:52 PM, Brian Cluff <br...@snaptek.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think you forget that the neutrality was put into place specifically to
>> deal with the network providers messing with netflix among other service's
>> data in favor of their own services.  That IS how we dealt with it.
>>
>> You keep talking about being able to get optimized services, but those
>> are legal and common now.  Getting rid of net neutrality won't enable
>> those.  Throttling your competitors services to the point of degrading
>> their service isn't an optimized service.
>>
>> Brian Cluff
>>
>>
>> On 11/25/2017 07:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>>
>> I do understand those concerns, but those types of abuses have existed in
>> the past and were dealt with before there was Net Neutrality. I do really
>> think that the bigger threat from the big content providers and not the
>> ISPs.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:12 PM, <techli...@phpcoderusa.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I hear you.  If everyone would play fair I would think slicing up data
>>> usage is fair.  I watch a lot of YouTube, however I do not need 4k.  My
>>> main concern is for businesses who use the Internet to market and do
>>> business.  As you probably know there is a move from brick and mortar to
>>> online stores and more so to selling on Amazon.
>>>
>>> If there is no net neutrality and GoDaddy invests in timewarner, then
>>> timewarner could keep people from seeing your website that is hosted on
>>> HostGator. Then Godaddy could coerce you into moving to GoDaddy or pay a
>>> fee to GoDaddy or timewarner.
>>>
>>> I see some serious antitrust coming. We need to get ICAAN back and we
>>> need to keep the Internet the Wild West to some degree. I do see Google is
>>> headed for some antitrust law suites, and maybe Government oversight.
>>> Government oversight is scary given how corrupt our Government is.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-11-24 12:31, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>>>
>>> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling.
>>> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that
>>> ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic.
>>> Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet
>>> port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter
>>> all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other
>>> point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences
>>> between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and
>>> video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not
>>> have the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie sequence
>>> number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are more prone
>>> to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To overcome this
>>> network engineer implement prioritization and traffic shaping to ensure
>>> these services are not impacted.
>>>
>>> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need
>>> for traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to
>>> push 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be
>>> prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in
>>> man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why
>>> I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure all
>>> of the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then the
>>> ISPs should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does not
>>> want to bear this cost, hense their support for Ne

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Here is a good presentation by Bryan Lunduke on NN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csK3KspB-6A

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 10:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. <
herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My point was those abuses were addressed without the need of NN in the
> past. NN IMO was a too heavy handed and misguided approach to a situation
> which the previous system took care of.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 25, 2017, at 9:52 PM, Brian Cluff <br...@snaptek.com> wrote:
>
> I think you forget that the neutrality was put into place specifically to
> deal with the network providers messing with netflix among other service's
> data in favor of their own services.  That IS how we dealt with it.
>
> You keep talking about being able to get optimized services, but those are
> legal and common now.  Getting rid of net neutrality won't enable those.
> Throttling your competitors services to the point of degrading their
> service isn't an optimized service.
>
> Brian Cluff
>
>
> On 11/25/2017 07:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>
> I do understand those concerns, but those types of abuses have existed in
> the past and were dealt with before there was Net Neutrality. I do really
> think that the bigger threat from the big content providers and not the
> ISPs.
>
> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:12 PM, <techli...@phpcoderusa.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I hear you.  If everyone would play fair I would think slicing up data
>> usage is fair.  I watch a lot of YouTube, however I do not need 4k.  My
>> main concern is for businesses who use the Internet to market and do
>> business.  As you probably know there is a move from brick and mortar to
>> online stores and more so to selling on Amazon.
>>
>> If there is no net neutrality and GoDaddy invests in timewarner, then
>> timewarner could keep people from seeing your website that is hosted on
>> HostGator. Then Godaddy could coerce you into moving to GoDaddy or pay a
>> fee to GoDaddy or timewarner.
>>
>> I see some serious antitrust coming. We need to get ICAAN back and we
>> need to keep the Internet the Wild West to some degree. I do see Google is
>> headed for some antitrust law suites, and maybe Government oversight.
>> Government oversight is scary given how corrupt our Government is.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2017-11-24 12:31, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>>
>> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling.
>> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that
>> ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic.
>> Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet
>> port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter
>> all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other
>> point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences
>> between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and
>> video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not
>> have the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie sequence
>> number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are more prone
>> to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To overcome this
>> network engineer implement prioritization and traffic shaping to ensure
>> these services are not impacted.
>>
>> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need
>> for traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to
>> push 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be
>> prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in
>> man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why
>> I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure all
>> of the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then the
>> ISPs should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does not
>> want to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They want
>> the ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the cost via
>> data caps.
>>
>> When you strip away all the slogans it all comes down to money and
>> control. Data will be traffic shaped it is just who decides how unelected
>> government bureaucrats pushing some public policy or market forces.
>>
>> Something else to consider a lot not all but a lot of the very same
>> people who cry that the end of Net Neutrality will be end of free speech
>> (no more free a

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

My point was those abuses were addressed without the need of NN in the past. NN 
IMO was a too heavy handed and misguided approach to a situation which the 
previous system took care of. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2017, at 9:52 PM, Brian Cluff <br...@snaptek.com> wrote:
> 
> I think you forget that the neutrality was put into place specifically to 
> deal with the network providers messing with netflix among other service's 
> data in favor of their own services.  That IS how we dealt with it.
> 
> You keep talking about being able to get optimized services, but those are 
> legal and common now.  Getting rid of net neutrality won't enable those.  
> Throttling your competitors services to the point of degrading their service 
> isn't an optimized service.
> 
> Brian Cluff
> 
> 
>> On 11/25/2017 07:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>> I do understand those concerns, but those types of abuses have existed in 
>> the past and were dealt with before there was Net Neutrality. I do really 
>> think that the bigger threat from the big content providers and not the 
>> ISPs.  
>> 
>>> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:12 PM, <techli...@phpcoderusa.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I hear you.  If everyone would play fair I would think slicing up data 
>>> usage is fair.  I watch a lot of YouTube, however I do not need 4k.  My 
>>> main concern is for businesses who use the Internet to market and do 
>>> business.  As you probably know there is a move from brick and mortar to 
>>> online stores and more so to selling on Amazon.   
>>> 
>>> If there is no net neutrality and GoDaddy invests in timewarner, then 
>>> timewarner could keep people from seeing your website that is hosted on 
>>> HostGator. Then Godaddy could coerce you into moving to GoDaddy or pay a 
>>> fee to GoDaddy or timewarner.
>>> 
>>> I see some serious antitrust coming. We need to get ICAAN back and we need 
>>> to keep the Internet the Wild West to some degree. I do see Google is 
>>> headed for some antitrust law suites, and maybe Government oversight. 
>>> Government oversight is scary given how corrupt our Government is.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>> On 2017-11-24 12:31, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling. 
>>>> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that 
>>>> ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic. 
>>>> Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet 
>>>> port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter 
>>>> all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other 
>>>> point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences 
>>>> between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and 
>>>> video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not 
>>>> have the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie 
>>>> sequence number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are 
>>>> more prone to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To 
>>>> overcome this network engineer implement prioritization and traffic 
>>>> shaping to ensure these services are not impacted. 
>>>>  
>>>> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need for 
>>>> traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to 
>>>> push 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be 
>>>> prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in 
>>>> man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why 
>>>> I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure 
>>>> all of the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then 
>>>> the ISPs should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does 
>>>> not want to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They 
>>>> want the ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the 
>>>> cost via data caps. 
>>>>  
>>>> When you strip away all the slogans it all comes down to money and 
>>>> control. Data will be traffic shaped it is just 
>>>> who decides how unelected government bureaucrats pushing some pub

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I do understand those concerns, but those types of abuses have existed in
the past and were dealt with before there was Net Neutrality. I do really
think that the bigger threat from the big content providers and not the
ISPs.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:12 PM, <techli...@phpcoderusa.com> wrote:

>
> I hear you.  If everyone would play fair I would think slicing up data
> usage is fair.  I watch a lot of YouTube, however I do not need 4k.  My
> main concern is for businesses who use the Internet to market and do
> business.  As you probably know there is a move from brick and mortar to
> online stores and more so to selling on Amazon.
>
> If there is no net neutrality and GoDaddy invests in timewarner, then
> timewarner could keep people from seeing your website that is hosted on
> HostGator. Then Godaddy could coerce you into moving to GoDaddy or pay a
> fee to GoDaddy or timewarner.
>
> I see some serious antitrust coming. We need to get ICAAN back and we need
> to keep the Internet the Wild West to some degree. I do see Google is
> headed for some antitrust law suites, and maybe Government oversight.
> Government oversight is scary given how corrupt our Government is.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2017-11-24 12:31, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>
> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling.
> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that
> ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic.
> Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet
> port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter
> all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other
> point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences
> between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and
> video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not
> have the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie sequence
> number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are more prone
> to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To overcome this
> network engineer implement prioritization and traffic shaping to ensure
> these services are not impacted.
>
> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need for
> traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to push
> 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be
> prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in
> man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why
> I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure all
> of the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then the
> ISPs should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does not
> want to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They want
> the ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the cost via
> data caps.
>
> When you strip away all the slogans it all comes down to money and
> control. Data will be traffic shaped it is just who decides how unelected
> government bureaucrats pushing some public policy or market forces.
>
> Something else to consider a lot not all but a lot of the very same people
> who cry that the end of Net Neutrality will be end of free speech (no more
> free and open internet) have no issue saying Twiiter, Facebook, and Google
> (since they are 'private companies') have the right demonetize, obscure, or
> even ban individuals who express ideas that other deem "offensive". How is
> that promoting a "Free and Open Internet"?
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> well, as someone else suggested, a new thread.
>>
>> so, shall we start the discussion?
>>
>> ok, as mentioned, bandwidth is a limited resource. the question is How
>> limited?
>>
>> Then there is the question: can an ISP curtail certain types of traffic
>> (null route it, delay it, other bandwidth shaping routines)? How far can
>> they go?
>>
>> What really is net neutrality?
>>
>> lastly, what part does the FCC play, or should they?
>>
>> so, any thoughts on the above questions?
>>
>> -eric
>> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, you got questions, we
>> got answers Dept.
>>
>> ---
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>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

We ought to be worried about the control that Google, Facebook, Twitter, and 
Apple has over our data. Those are the real gatekeepers. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2017, at 5:13 PM, Matthew Crews  wrote:
> 
> I'm just waiting for the day when ISPs decide to perform routine MITM attacks 
> on https and other encrypted transport mechanisms. Then what do we do? 
> Nothing, we are hosed at that point for good.
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Stephen pre 2015 there were avenues in place where you can appeal to if you 
feel ISPs are screwing you. I think AT at the time tried screw over FaceTime 
users they all complained and pressured them to back off. There was no need for 
a massive overhaul in how the internet was managed. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2017, at 4:12 PM, Stephen Partington <cryptwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Paying for more is fine. But when they can choke down the pipe artificially 
> just to put you in a position to now need to pay for the premium service. So 
> now you ha e to pay more just to get access. 
> 
>> On Nov 25, 2017 4:03 PM, "Herminio Hernandez Jr." 
>> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Brian,
>> 
>> This is why allowing ISPs to sell fast lanes and even tiered services would 
>> not be the end of the world.  There a ton of people who do not use streaming 
>> services that would like to opt in to a service that was cheaper but 
>> throttled streaming services and there people who would be happy to pay more 
>> to have better streaming services. In the end more options will benefit 
>> consumers. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 25, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Brian Cluff <br...@snaptek.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here's the real problem with that.  I already pay a ton of money so that I 
>>> can stream video well.  Most people could get away with a much slower, and 
>>> cheaper, Internet pipe if it wasn't for stuff like streaming services.
>>> 
>>> We used at all pay around $15 to $20 per month for an Internet connection 
>>> 15 years ago and it was fine.  Now we all regularly pay around $100 give or 
>>> take for a faster connection so that our netflix comes over at decent 
>>> quality Ultimately Netflix doesn't cost $8 a month, it cost $108 
>>> dollars a month, it just so happens that the connection that gives us 
>>> Netflix also gives us some other useful services. 
>>> 
>>> Now the network providers that are getting the lions share of the money so 
>>> that we can get these streaming services want a piece of the pie of every 
>>> service that has managed to be successful on the Internet... From services 
>>> I might add that make the network providers service worth getting in the 
>>> first place.  The network providers play it like we would all have these 
>>> expensive connections no matter what and that all the services that make 
>>> their network connect worth having in the first place is a drain on their 
>>> service that would be better off without netflix, hulu, youtube, 
>>> facebook... etc...etc...  In my view it's the other way around and they 
>>> should be hoping and praying that those services don't figure out how to 
>>> cut them out of the picture... something that I'll bet they figure out how 
>>> to do if it's suddenly a lot more expensive to be in business because of 
>>> the current way they do things.
>>> 
>>> For a lot of people, if they weren't getting netflix they could quite 
>>> likely get away with no Internet connection at all, or one that cost less 
>>> than $20 a month so that they could check their email.
>>> 
>>> And the answer to who is going to pay for it is, the end user aka you and 
>>> me.  Last I checked content providers and ISPs don't print money, so they 
>>> have no choice but to pass the costs onto the end user.
>>> 
>>> Brian Cluff
>>> 
>>>> On 11/25/2017 02:45 PM, Eric Oyen wrote:
>>>> well, considering that the top multinational multimedia cartels own 90%
>>>>of the news information outlets these days, that situation is already 
>>>> happening.  what we need is a specified statement like this:
>>>> all internet services providers are required to allow competing content to 
>>>> cross to the end user without censorship  (that is, they cannot block it). 
>>>> However, they might be allowed to charge a "reasonable fee" to allow it 
>>>> through. 
>>>> 
>>>> now, the question becomes, who bears the cost of that fee? the content 
>>>> provider, the ISP or the end user? and yes, double dipping would 
>>>> definitely not be allowed.
>>>> 
>>>> now, the old tape cassette fee model worked good for years. the content 
>>>> providers got a small percentage on each cassette sold and users got to 
>>>> tape their favorite songs. why not the same thing here: charge a small 
>>>> percentage (like 1

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

 hogs for 
>>> providers, so rather than let storming elephants trample the village, they 
>>> would "queue" that traffic so it wouldn't overrun more important things, 
>>> like normal web browsing and more perceptible use cases (still likely do).  
>>> As Stephen said, they eventually got smarter, or Netflix did, to peer 
>>> directly with the mega providers, and put local content distribution nodes 
>>> directly into them on 100gb switches so they didn't have to slaughter your 
>>> traffic (and take the bad press eventually in being the internet cop ala 
>>> comcast).
>>> 
>>> Is this really what the net neutrality debate is about anymore?  No, 
>>> politicians don't care about internet speeds, it's really about media 
>>> consolidation occurring that you will be pretty much left with att, 
>>> comcast, and news corp for all television, internet, phone, and news in 
>>> general.  What could go wrong, other than enabling maniacal billionaires to 
>>> buy their way into the white house.
>>> 
>>> -mb
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. 
>>> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> They are very related Network QoS exists because there are limits in how 
>>>> much networking gear transmits packets and frames. There is a lot more to 
>>>> it than just writing the policy. There is a cost to engineer that out. 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 24, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Partington <cryptwo...@gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> It is not that simple in my mind. Network QoS is very different then the 
>>>>> possibility of the customers pay extra for additional services. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Besides Netflix has cache devices that can and are frequently in local is 
>>>>> Datacenters to alleviate latency and Bw issues. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> And given the current fcc chairs attitude I am really skeptical. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 24, 2017 12:31 PM, "Herminio Hernandez, Jr." 
>>>>>> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling. 
>>>>>> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea 
>>>>>> that ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply   
>>>>>>   unrealistic. Bandwidth is a limited resource 
>>>>>> there is only so much data that a Ethernet port can transmit and 
>>>>>> receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter all impact the 
>>>>>> reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other point. Not all 
>>>>>> traffic is the same. There are night and day differences between TCP and 
>>>>>> UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and video is) is 
>>>>>> faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not have the 
>>>>>> recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie sequence 
>>>>>> number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are more 
>>>>>> prone to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To overcome 
>>>>>> this network engineer implement prioritization and traffic shaping to 
>>>>>> ensure these services are not impacted.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need 
>>>>>> for traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability 
>>>>>> to push 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to 
>>>>>> be prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs 
>>>>>> involved in man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that 
>>>>>> cost. This is why I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to 
>>>>>> have ISPs ensure all of the massive amounts to data are push is 
>>>>>> delivered efficiently, then the ISPs should be free to charge a  
>>>>>>  premium for this service. Netflix does not want 
>>>>>> to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They want the 
>>>>>> ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the cost via 
>

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Eric,

This seems to be a reasonable alternative than what is being proposed by Net 
Neutrality. Saying to ISPs do not block competing content is more realistic 
than do not throttle. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2017, at 2:45 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> well, considering that the top multinational multimedia cartels own 90% of 
> the news information outlets these days, that situation is already happening. 
>  what we need is a specified statement like this:
> all internet services providers are required to allow competing content to 
> cross to the end user without censorship  (that is, they cannot block it). 
> However, they might be allowed to charge a "reasonable fee" to allow it 
> through. 
> 
> now, the question becomes, who bears the cost of that fee? the content 
> provider, the ISP or the end user? and yes, double dipping would definitely 
> not be allowed.
> 
> now, the old tape cassette fee model worked good for years. the content 
> providers got a small percentage on each cassette sold and users got to tape 
> their favorite songs. why not the same thing here: charge a small percentage 
> (like 1%) to the end user on a monthly basis to be paid into a general fund 
> for all content providers? that 1% is small considering individual users, but 
> adds up fast when you consider the number of customers each ISP/broadband 
> provider has. in my case, that would be about 80 cents on my cable bill. 
> doesn't seem like a lot, doesn't it?
> 
> -eric
> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Think tank operations Dept.
> 
>> On Nov 25, 2017, at 9:29 AM, Michael Butash wrote:
>> 
>> Most network devices these days, including wireless, firewalls, as well as 
>> you standard routers and switches tend to do layer 4 and up application 
>> inspection, primarily for creating policies like "limit youtube|netflix to 
>> 1mbps", "block peer to peer traffic", and "limit google to safe search only" 
>> that muck with your content when at work, school, anywhere you have an 
>> network admin like Herminio or I trying to keep users from doing things to 
>> break the network, or at least them all at once doing so.
>> 
>> Early on, Netflix and Youtube grew to be behemoth network hogs for 
>> providers, so rather than let storming elephants trample the village, they 
>> would "queue" that traffic so it wouldn't overrun more important things, 
>> like normal web browsing and more perceptible use cases (still likely do).  
>> As Stephen said, they eventually got smarter, or Netflix did, to peer 
>> directly with the mega providers, and put local content distribution nodes 
>> directly into them on 100gb switches so they didn't have to slaughter your 
>> traffic (and take the bad press eventually in being the internet cop ala 
>> comcast).
>> 
>> Is this really what the net neutrality debate is about anymore?  No, 
>> politicians don't care about internet speeds, it's really about media 
>> consolidation occurring that you will be pretty much left with att, comcast, 
>> and news corp for all television, internet, phone, and news in general.  
>> What could go wrong, other than enabling maniacal billionaires to buy their 
>> way into the white house.
>> 
>> -mb
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. 
>>> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> They are very related Network QoS exists because there are limits in how 
>>> much networking gear transmits packets and frames. There is a lot more to 
>>> it than just writing the policy. There is a cost to engineer that out. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 24, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Partington <cryptwo...@gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> It is not that simple in my mind. Network QoS is very different then the 
>>>> possibility of the customers pay extra for additional services. 
>>>> 
>>>> Besides Netflix has cache devices that can and are frequently in local is 
>>>> Datacenters to alleviate latency and Bw issues. 
>>>> 
>>>> And given the current fcc chairs attitude I am really skeptical. 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 24, 2017 12:31 PM, "Herminio Hernandez, Jr." 
>>>>> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling. 
>>>>> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that 
>>>>> ISPs should trea

Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

> On Nov 25, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Steve Litt  wrote:
>
> [snip tech explanation that could be addressed without making the
> Internet oligopoly owned]
>

How does net neutrality keep the internet from being oligopoly owned?
Does it say
that ISPs are no longer have the protection of a natural monopoly?
That would break
its power sadly that is not NN is. NN is built on a technical premise
that seriously flawed.

> Those poor ISPs. What are there, about six of them? Neatly dividing the
> country so few have more than two choices, and lots have only one? Is
> this how capitalism is supposed to work?
>

In a truly free market there would no government protect monopolies.
This fact is more the
reason we are in the mess we are in.

> You can make the next Netflix. Make a better protocol, have better
> films. You CANNOT make a competitor to Verison:
>

Really? Ever heard of wireless ISPs? The reason there is "no
competitor" (and I would
doubt that assertion) is not b/c Verizon is a 'natural monopoly', but
rather ISPs have
certain government protections that prevents or hinders entry to  the
market place. One
of the great benefits of the Free Market is possibility of innovation.
Pre 2006 did anyone
have any idea how a phone made by apple would change how we do computing?


> Monopolies that must dig up your yard (or use scarce radio bandwidth)
> to deliver a very necessary service are called utilities. They're
> heavily regulated to prevent monopolistic exploitation.

Utilities are regulated under laws that were written in the 1930s that
simply unsuitable
for modern technology.

> The first decade of the popular Internet were backboned by phone lines,
> completely regulated as utilities. Everybody had the same chance, the
> same deal. The result was a level of competition that spawned
> innovation that drove the 1990's economy: Probably some of you remember
> that. Capitalism's benefits are amazing if you get monopolism out of
> the way.
>

The internet thrived because it was not heavily regulated. Remember
the Telecommunications
Act of 1996? It labeled the internet as an 'information service' not a
'utility' and insured
light regulation. The system worked pretty well from 1996 - 2014.

> But wait, there's more. If Net Neutrality goes away, the oligopolists
> become gatekeepers. Compete with their programming? It's back to the
> slow lane for you. Have a website or service promoting Net Neutrality
> and criticizing the oligopoly? Yeah, it's too bad about those data
> glitches you somehow keep encountering.
>

The scary distopia that pro NN advocates are pushing simply did not
exist pre 2015 when NN took effect.
Yes there attempts by ISPs to screw people but they complained, fought
back and in the end the ISPs
relented. This is how markets work.

>
> Pre-cisely! And most of the campaign contributions electing
> anti-net-neutrality people come from the oligopoly, who want to become
> more monopolistic, extracting more money for less service.
>

Really and pro NN lobbiest like Microsft, Google, Facebook have our
best interest in heart. You really think they
care about our free speech?

> Net Neutrality is serious business. I'm betting that if it's discarded,
> innovation decreases, and there go the tech jobs. There's a planned
> nationwide pro-net-neutrality protest at Verizon stores
> (https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/22/net-neutrality-advocates-plan-protests-for-december-7-at-verizon-stores/)
>

Once again this does not describe the internet pre 2015. NN has only
been in effect for 2 years and you really
want me to believe that removing will usher the technical apocalypse?
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

They are very related Network QoS exists because there are limits in how much 
networking gear transmits packets and frames. There is a lot more to it than 
just writing the policy. There is a cost to engineer that out. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 24, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Partington <cryptwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It is not that simple in my mind. Network QoS is very different then the 
> possibility of the customers pay extra for additional services. 
> 
> Besides Netflix has cache devices that can and are frequently in local is 
> Datacenters to alleviate latency and Bw issues. 
> 
> And given the current fcc chairs attitude I am really skeptical. 
> 
>> On Nov 24, 2017 12:31 PM, "Herminio Hernandez, Jr." 
>> <herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling. First 
>> there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that ISPs 
>> should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic. 
>> Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet 
>> port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter 
>> all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other 
>> point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences 
>> between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and 
>> video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not have 
>> the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie sequence 
>> number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are more prone to 
>> suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To overcome this network 
>> engineer implement prioritization and traffic shaping to ensure these 
>> services are not impacted. 
>> 
>> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need for 
>> traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to push 
>> 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be 
>> prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in 
>> man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why I 
>> am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure all of 
>> the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then the ISPs 
>> should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does not want 
>> to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They want the 
>> ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the cost via data 
>> caps. 
>> 
>> When you strip away all the slogans it all comes down to money and control. 
>> Data will be traffic shaped it is just who decides how unelected government 
>> bureaucrats pushing some public policy or market forces.
>> 
>> Something else to consider a lot not all but a lot of the very same people 
>> who cry that the end of Net Neutrality will be end of free speech (no more 
>> free and open internet) have no issue saying Twiiter, Facebook, and Google 
>> (since they are 'private companies') have the right demonetize, obscure, or 
>> even ban individuals who express ideas that other deem "offensive". How is 
>> that promoting a "Free and Open Internet"?
>> 
>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> well, as someone else suggested, a new thread.
>>> 
>>> so, shall we start the discussion?
>>> 
>>> ok, as mentioned, bandwidth is a limited resource. the question is How 
>>> limited?
>>> 
>>> Then there is the question: can an ISP curtail certain types of traffic 
>>> (null route it, delay it, other bandwidth shaping routines)? How far can 
>>> they go?
>>> 
>>> What really is net neutrality?
>>> 
>>> lastly, what part does the FCC play, or should they?
>>> 
>>> so, any thoughts on the above questions?
>>> 
>>> -eric
>>> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, you got questions, we got 
>>> answers Dept.
>>> 
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>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> 
>> 
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Re: new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling.
First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that
ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic.
Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet
port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter
all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other
point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences
between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and
video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not
have the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie sequence
number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are more prone
to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To overcome this
network engineer implement prioritization and traffic shaping to ensure
these services are not impacted.

As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need for
traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to push
100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be
prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in
man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why
I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure all
of the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then the
ISPs should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does not
want to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They want
the ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the cost via
data caps.

When you strip away all the slogans it all comes down to money and control.
Data will be traffic shaped it is just who decides how unelected government
bureaucrats pushing some public policy or market forces.

Something else to consider a lot not all but a lot of the very same people
who cry that the end of Net Neutrality will be end of free speech (no more
free and open internet) have no issue saying Twiiter, Facebook, and Google
(since they are 'private companies') have the right demonetize, obscure, or
even ban individuals who express ideas that other deem "offensive". How is
that promoting a "Free and Open Internet"?

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Eric Oyen  wrote:

> well, as someone else suggested, a new thread.
>
> so, shall we start the discussion?
>
> ok, as mentioned, bandwidth is a limited resource. the question is How
> limited?
>
> Then there is the question: can an ISP curtail certain types of traffic
> (null route it, delay it, other bandwidth shaping routines)? How far can
> they go?
>
> What really is net neutrality?
>
> lastly, what part does the FCC play, or should they?
>
> so, any thoughts on the above questions?
>
> -eric
> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, you got questions, we
> got answers Dept.
>
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Re: kodi tvaddons

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

I work in the networking field and I can tell you that the idea that all 
traffic can be treated equally is nonsense. If you want services esp latency 
sensitive ones like voice and video to be delivered reliably then there will be 
traffic shaping. Bandwidth is a limited resource. 

p.s. do not want to hijack the thread if anyone wants to discuss further open a 
new thread. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 24, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Michael Butash  wrote:
> 
> If you've ever worked in networking at a carrier or isp level, you know net 
> neutrality never really was to begin with.  From the beginnings of time, 
> there's been a feature called "quality of service" that makes sure some 
> traffic is always more important than other traffics, so this has always been 
> happening, it's really just more if they apply that lack of priority and/or 
> limiting of queue traffic to certain (competing) services, which assuredly 
> they already do now too.
> 
> This is why I still just download anything I watch like movies and shows that 
> aren't just random youtube videos.  What delay?  This is all on the 2nd to 
> the cheapest cox plan - don't need no stinkin' gigablast.
> 
> Funny part is my aunt that pays for multiple streaming services and watches 
> everything there got hit by Cox's bandwidth cap now.  She knows I just pirate 
> everything, and ask if I was warned too - nope.  I don't think I watch tv 
> near as much as she does, but found it funny that legit users are most 
> affected and forced to pay even more in just bandwidth overages.  
> 
> 20 years after downloading my first free music and movies, piracy is still 
> the most hassle-free method I can use to watch tv.
> 
> -mb
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:17 AM, Steve Litt  
>> wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 23:50:33 -0700
>> Eric Oyen  wrote:
>> 
>> > well,
>> > the media cartels can go pound sand as far as I am concerned. I can
>> > get most of the content I want from Amazon, netflix, hulu (if I could
>> > ever get around the accessibility issues) or even youtube tv.
>> 
>> You'd better hurry up and give feedback to the FCC not to trash
>> Net Neutrality, because in a couple days they vote to allow the
>> media cartels to erect toll bridges and speed bumps on the Internet to
>> retard Amazon, netflox, hulu, and youtube tv. Without Net Neutrality,
>> it's *us* who will be pounding sand.
>> 
>> SteveT
>> 
>> Steve Litt
>> November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
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Re: Amazon EC2 cloud desktop

[Herminio Hernandez Jr.]

Install the xubuntu-desktop meta package then install X2GO server. Install the  
X2GO client on your machine and you should be good to go. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 23, 2017, at 1:33 AM, trent shipley  wrote:
> 
> I have a pre-built EC2 AMI with RStudio I use to study R. I can use it from 
> my Mac or Windows machine. It is nice.
> 
> I want an EC2 Ubuntu 16.04 AMI to use as an affordable cloud based Linux 
> machine to play with toys, like teaching myself Haskell. Take lappy for 
> coffee, get internet on the phone. Do Haskell exercises. Go home. Continue 
> exercises on desktop. (I can run Linux virtual guests on both the Mac and 
> Windows machine.) 
> 
> Unfortunately, it looks like using the image is a sysadmin challenge, not 
> least because if you want a GUI, you have to get it working on your own. I'm 
> way down the sysadmin learning curve, compounded by the fact that I usually 
> don't enjoy system administration chores. 
> 
> Has anyone got some useful thoughts?
> 
> Trent 
> 
> 
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Re: Debian Stable vs Ubuntu LTS vs Others for a NAS

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

If you are looking for a NAS solution, then I would recommend FreeNAS
highly. The web interface is easy to use, plus you get first class ZFS
support.

On Nov 20, 2017 2:10 PM, "Matthew Crews"  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm sure this comes up every so often.
>
> I'm in the process of repurposing an older desktop machine I have lying
> around and turning it into a NAS. I would like to do as little system
> administration as possible once it is set up. I would like relatively
> recent packages too, but I do NOT want to use a rolling release system.
>
> I haven't decided on which distribution to use. My top three choices:
>
> 1. Debian Stable (presently 9.2)
> 2. Ubuntu LTS (presently 16.04, soon will be 18.04)
> 3. Others
>
> Debian Stretch was recently released, and so the packages are newer than
> what's found in Ubuntu 16.04. However, Ubuntu 18.04 is just around the
> corner and will contain newer packages than Debian Stretch.
>
> Anoption is also to install Ubuntu 17.10, upgrade to 18.04 in April, and
> keep it on the LTS path going forward, but I feel that could be a recipe
> for disaster. Not terribly comfortable with running non-LTS Ubuntu on this
> machine, though.
>
> I'm most comfortable with Debian-based distros, but I'm open to using
> other distros if they do the job well, such as CentOS, OpenSUSE, and the
> like. I'm open to using a BSD (like FreeNAS) if it does the job and my
> hardware works for it.
>
> What's everyone's experiences? For my use case, what is the preference?
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Matt
>
>
>
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Re: Looking for video editing software

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

It should work in gnome.

On Nov 18, 2017 9:29 PM, "Mark Phillips" <m...@phillipsmarketing.biz> wrote:

> The newer version of Openshot is OK. It sill crashes on almost every move
> of a clip in a track, but at least it does not exit! Very painful editing,
> but it is now creating my video, so I will see how it turns out.
>
> I run gnome, so I assume kdenlive is not supported?
>
> Mark
>
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 9:10 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. <
> herminio.hernande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Give kdenlive a try.
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2017 10:53 AM, "Mark Phillips" <m...@phillipsmarketing.biz>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have some clips and jpgs I need to combine in to a movie. Simple
>>> stuff...jpg as title at the start, fade into first clip, fade into
>>> shortened version of second clip. Boost audio tracks as needed. I am
>>> running an uptodate Ubuntu 14.04 from system 76.
>>>
>>> I tried openshot...crashed twice.
>>>
>>> Tried Pitivi-ei-ei-o. The controls from the track headers are missing
>>> and it crashed, too.
>>>
>>> Looked at Kino. It does not seem to fit my model for editing. I am
>>> looking for a playback window, some tracks to add my content, and controls
>>> to manage the tracks. Any good and short tutorials? Really don't want to
>>> spend months on this project!
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> ---
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
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>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: Looking for video editing software

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Give kdenlive a try.

On Nov 18, 2017 10:53 AM, "Mark Phillips" 
wrote:

> I have some clips and jpgs I need to combine in to a movie. Simple
> stuff...jpg as title at the start, fade into first clip, fade into
> shortened version of second clip. Boost audio tracks as needed. I am
> running an uptodate Ubuntu 14.04 from system 76.
>
> I tried openshot...crashed twice.
>
> Tried Pitivi-ei-ei-o. The controls from the track headers are missing and
> it crashed, too.
>
> Looked at Kino. It does not seem to fit my model for editing. I am looking
> for a playback window, some tracks to add my content, and controls to
> manage the tracks. Any good and short tutorials? Really don't want to spend
> months on this project!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark
>
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
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