Re: SLUG

[der.hans]

Am 01. Apr, 2009 schwätzte Dazed_75 so:


On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:11 AM, keith smith  wrote:




Why fragment from PLUG?



I don't know what you are asking.  Some of us attend PLUG functions as
well.  I work most PLUG Installfests and attend more East side meetings than
not.  But living in Apache Junction makes those a fair trek.


Thanks for all that participation!


As to starting a new LUG, we did that a few years ago with support from PLUG
folks.  We are mostly retired folks active in community computer clubs and
members of the East Valley Association of Computer Clubs which is a member
of the Arizona Association of Computer Clubs.  So we might ask why PLUG
wanted to fragment from us.  ROFL.


To me, it's not fragmenting. The key is that we all continue working
together. I'm in favor of promoting events for SLUG, the LoCo, ASULUG,
etc. because they all work as opportunities for the Free Software
community to reach out. I wish I could make all the activities, but even I
have to sleep sometime.

In the Valley we're especially hard pressed due to a huge geographical
area and a low population density. We actually need different groups to
give people an opportunity to participate and learn.

Maybe we should start LRLUG and do meetings travelling from one side of
the valley to the other. It could be Stammtisch on either end and a one
hour presentation going from one end to the other :).


Anyway, some of us wanted to play in the Linux world and found PLUG to be
too far away and to some extent too professionally focused.  So we
participate but went out own route to focus on our goals.  We started by
doing projects together to help us learn.


Which is awesome. That's one of the great things about Free Software, it's
whatever you want it to be.

ciao,

der.hans
--
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#  "Wasted day. Wasted life. Dessert, please."  -- Steven Meretzky---
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Re: SLUG

[der.hans]

Am 01. Apr, 2009 schwätzte Lyle Tuttle so:


At 11:40 AM 4/1/2009, you wrote:


On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:11 AM, keith smith 
<klsmith2...@yahoo.com> wrote:



Why fragment from PLUG?



Keith Smith

I don't know what you are asking.  Some of us attend PLUG functions as 
well.  I work most PLUG Installfests and attend more East side meetings 
than not.  But living in Apache Junction makes those a fair trek.


As does living in Surprise...


That could be SLUG-west ;-)

The PLUG west side meeting is at I-17 and Bell. Not exactly next door for
Surprise, but not too terribly far either.

Maybe you could start a LUG at Lake Pleasant, then you could be LUG on the
Lake and confuse people as to why there's a t in LoL :).

There was a Sun City Linux group, but they were meeting at something like
07:00 on Friday mornings, so aside from really staying out late after a
PLUG meeting I'll never be up for that.

ciao,

der.hans
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OT: [sorta] "Vowing to Prevent 'Cyber Katrina,' Senators Propose Cyber Czar"

[Mike Schwartz]

As far as I know, this:
"Vowing to Prevent 'Cyber Katrina,' Senators Propose Cyber Czar"
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/04/vowing-to-preve.html
is (was) not an April fool's joke.
   One thing that does seem a little suspicious (beware), is that
among the many "cross-references" to other items, there is one
link labeled "proposed cyber
czar",
 --
which I think
was "intended" to point to the URL
  http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/files/cyberkatrinabill.pdf
 -- that has instead a bogus looking URL of
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/files/cyberkatrinabill.pdf%22%3EDownload%20cyberkatrinabill.pdf
(which doesn't work...)
so, I still don't think it's an April fool's joke,
but apparently someone was not being careful enough, and by the way, IMHO
the "proofreading" should ALWAYS include checking that links work -- maybe
even checking with more than one browser (at least a couple of browsers?)
(one of them being Firefox) ...it seems that in this case, there was a
slip-up.

I don't actually think there is a browser related issue here -- partly
because,
 just for completeness, I tried that link with two browsers (one of them
Firefox),
 and it was equal-opportunity "404 Not Found" with both browsers.
So I think it is just a case of a schnerbed URL
...but the article still seems interesting [to me] (YMMV).

Etymology note / Humor :-) Lol / ACK
(By the way, [HUMOR!:] that funny slang word, "schnerbed",
 [past participle of the verb "to schnerb"?] [passsive voice?]
 was copied from
 [and hence I guess, courtesy of / "with apologies to" the writer of]
 some other recent PLUG-discuss posts;
[I couldn't find that word anywhere else, even using "
http://www.onelook.com/";]
[also, I may have already copied it at least once "before" this --
so, if this is a delayed ACK, make it retroactive] ).

Some of the links work OK
I pursued one of the other side-issue "tangent" links, (labeled
"swindle "),
(2nd word of "one
swindle
at
a time") with a URL of
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/11/three-plead-gui.html
and at least that link [URL] is OK.
-- 
Mike Schwartz
Glendale  AZ
schwa...@acm.org
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Re: Web Server Issues Centos

[Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr.]

On my other server and also from searching the web, apache should not have 
problems with opening the files in my home directories.  I went ahead and 
did a "chown -R apache:apache pub_html" and still having the same issue.

Gilbert


- Original Message - 
From: Judd Pickell
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Web Server Issues Centos


This may sound like  a silly question, but are you sure that the folders you 
are using have the right user/group permissions and ownership so that Apache 
can see it? I have had issues with permissions on CentOS 5 when setting up 
apache many times.

Sincerely,
Judd 

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Re: Web Server Issues Centos

[Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr.]

I cannot find sites_enabled.  I have a couple different domains with several 
different people accessing and uploading files to them.  If it was just a 
single domain, I would just put everything in /var/www/html and 
/var/www/cgi-bin which are the defaults for Centos.

Gilbert

- Original Message - 
From: John
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: Web Server Issues Centos


Sounds like you don't have the directory enabled for access through apache2. 
There should be a file in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled that allows the 
directory to be viewed through the apache server. I just tinker around so 
mine is set to the default of /var/www


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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Josef Lowder]

On 4/1/09, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:
> I have no issue with red-light cameras, if they provide a yellow light of
> adequate length to safely stop after noticing the light change, say 5 or 6
> seconds.  As for the speed cameras, well, I am agenst speed limits and
> believe it should be safe and prudent as seen by an officer and confirmed by
> a judge. As for the cameras in particular, no one has been able to make
> public a report showing they do anything other then annoy drivers. Accidents
> have not gone down ...

Photo radar saves lives.  Period.

According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of photo
radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, and fatality
collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.

No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply because
of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway speed laws.
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Craig White]

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 09:24 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
> On 4/1/09, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:
> > I have no issue with red-light cameras, if they provide a yellow light of
> > adequate length to safely stop after noticing the light change, say 5 or 6
> > seconds.  As for the speed cameras, well, I am agenst speed limits and
> > believe it should be safe and prudent as seen by an officer and confirmed by
> > a judge. As for the cameras in particular, no one has been able to make
> > public a report showing they do anything other then annoy drivers. Accidents
> > have not gone down ...
> 
> Photo radar saves lives.  Period.
> 
> According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of photo
> radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, and fatality
> collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.
> 
> No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply because
> of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway speed laws.

The state tried to increase revenue with these cameras and implemented a
system where there was only a single financial penalty for being
captured on photo radar. No points against your license, no report to
insurance...just money.

While there is a direct correlation to speed and fatalities, there's no
accommodation for reasonable and prudent, only a hard line between 75 &
76 mp/h where money changes hands. 76 mp/h during rush hours is
infinitely more dangerous than at 11:00 pm when the traffic is sparse.

If speed were the only issue, let's just lower the speed limits
everywhere and people will be much safer. I am quite certain that if the
speed limit on the 101 was 45 mp/h, there would hardly be any
fatalities.

Craig


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Alex Dean]

On Apr 2, 2009, at 9:43 AM, Craig White wrote:


If speed were the only issue, let's just lower the speed limits
everywhere and people will be much safer. I am quite certain that if  
the

speed limit on the 101 was 45 mp/h, there would hardly be any
fatalities.


Aside from road-rage shootings...


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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Joshua A. Andler]

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 09:24 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
> Photo radar saves lives.  Period.

So does driving responsibly... and, you know, paying attention.

> According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of photo
> radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, and fatality
> collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.

I've seen a couple accidents (literally 2) take place first-hand due to
people reacting to the sight of the cameras. Apparently panic induced,
the individuals abruptly slammed on their brakes to avoid a picture. I'm
not saying that the drivers behind those vehicles shouldn't have been at
a safer distance, but the cameras don't only prevent accidents, in some
cases they cause them.

I also take the DPS statistics with a grain of salt, as it does generate
a healthy amount of revenue for the state that they'd like to continue
receiving.

> No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply because
> of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway speed laws.

Okay, this argument could be made for any number of things that the laws
restrict us from partaking in... in the name of protection. The entire
notion that the government does things against the will of the people,
and that people accept it... well, it greatly saddens and disturbs me. I
say that because I've definitely heard more complaints than praise about
the speed cameras.

Cheers,
Josh

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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Eric Cope]

link to those statistics?

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Josef Lowder  wrote:

> On 4/1/09, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:
> > I have no issue with red-light cameras, if they provide a yellow light of
> > adequate length to safely stop after noticing the light change, say 5 or
> 6
> > seconds.  As for the speed cameras, well, I am agenst speed limits and
> > believe it should be safe and prudent as seen by an officer and confirmed
> by
> > a judge. As for the cameras in particular, no one has been able to make
> > public a report showing they do anything other then annoy drivers.
> Accidents
> > have not gone down ...
>
> Photo radar saves lives.  Period.
>
> According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of
> photo
> radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, and fatality
> collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.
>
> No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply because
> of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway speed
> laws.
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Re: decent non-embeded firewall

[Stephen]

smoothwall actually has a package set that layers of an existing
installation, in addition to their real product which is the stand
alone firewall. It is essentially the tool set that makes smoothwall
(on top of the OS hardening). I tried getting it to run on slackware
at one time, but had limited success. but that was a few years ago and
i have learned since then.

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:45 AM, Bryan O'Neal
 wrote:
> I thought smothwall was a stand alone isolated distribution that ran on
> dedicated hardware, not something I could put on top of a standard
> distribution thus allowing me to keep the box hooked up for its "tv" centric
> features. If I had a small dedicated box I could get away with using I would
> probably put on SmotheWall/MonoWall/pfSense or the like and forget it.
> However I would really like to use the available box for other non critical
> tasks. So far ShoreWall is the closest thing I found out their.  I kind of
> expected more advancement in the last four years, but I also understand that
> this kind of shared system would never be accepted by anyone but home users
> (with good reason) and with such a small target it just may not be as
> interesting to developers.
>
> I wipe the box regularly and it interacts with my other systems very little,
> so I do not mind it being a border router, but I am not that great with
> IPTables (not to mention I don't really trust it that much) so a prebuilt
> firewall package would be preferred.
>
> Especially after being schooled for my belief that regional blocking is an
> OK first line of defense ;) Kinda shakes the confidence regarding my ability
> to configure a decent firewall :)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Andrew
> "Tuna" Harris
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:11 AM
> To: "plu>"@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: decent non-embeded firewall
>
> Top posting because long email is long.
>
> Did you ever look at Smoothwall? I'm going to implement it for one of my
> clients pretty soon.
>
> http://smoothwall.org/
>
> Excerpts from Bryan O'Neal's message of Mon Mar 30 23:17:46 -0700 2009:
>> My Netgear FVS318 router/firewall has developed a nasty habit of
>> rebooting every time it gets both portscaned and repeated gnutella
>> requests (who still runs gnutella anyway?) so I am looking to put in a
>> boarder router/firewall to protect it (read replace it if not for the
>> lack of an 8 port switch) However the wife will not let my drop an old
>> ugly tower were I need it to go. However I do have a box I am using
>> for "web tv" purposes that I can toss a firewall on. My requirements
>> are
>> simple:
>>       * Runs on top of a stranded distribution (Ubuntu, Fedora/CentOS,
>>         OpenSuSE, etc) not as a stand alone isolated distribution on
>>         dedicated hardware.
>>       * Does port forwarding
>>       * Does NAT
>>       * Does Static Routes (Important if I have another router behind
>>         it)
>>       * Does Statefull inspection
>>       * Does not break IPSec/PFS/L2PT/Etc.
>>       * Does custom black listing
>>       * Prevents DoS (Syn flood, ICMP flood, UDP flood, port scans,
>>         ping of death, IP spoofing, land attack, tear drop attack, IP
>>         address sweep attack, Win Nuke attack, etc)
>>       * Does intrusion detection, preferably with email alerts
>>
>> Would be nice if it also does:
>>       * GUI configuration
>>       * QoS
>>       * DHCP
>>       * IAC (Outbound rules)
>>       * SNMP2
>>       * Decent logging/reporting
>>       * GUI Dashboard
>>       * DynDNS
>>       * Web content filtering
>>       * DNS Proxy
>>       * Black list service
>>
>> Can any one recommend something or am I left to cobble together what I
>> can with iptables...
>>
>> Bryan O'Neal
>> O'Neal & Associates
>> Phone: (602) 295-4356
>> Fax:     (602) 795-6050
>> E-Mail: bryan.on...@theonealandassociates.com
>>
>>
>> Blogger 
>> Twitter 
>> Linkedin 
>>
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-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: decent non-embeded firewall (my worthless 2 cents)

[Stephen]

"Though I suppose since my TV died I don't need a box hooked to my TV
until I replace it anyway ;)"

And this is a reason/excuse to use t for your firewall, then get a new
one with your TV...
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Grzegorz Furmanek]

I have to concur with the other critics of speed cameras.  Any  
statistical

data generated by the DPS should be carefully examined and verified
before making conclusive statements.

I do agree speed does play a role in severity of accidents and it should
be considered a factor in decreased time for reaction, however
the bigger issue is the fact that people do not pay attention to the  
road

to begin with.

Some other statistics I have seen show that talking on the phone while
driving decreases the reaction time to levels of an intoxicated person.
The studies did not even mention dialing the phone.  Only talking and it
did not really matter if it was hands-free or not.

Also one may argue that putting cameras all over the place causes
people to pay more attention to spotting the cameras and less on driving
itself.  Which also is not the optimal for driving.

Just my 2 cents.


On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Eric Cope wrote:


link to those statistics?

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Josef Lowder   
wrote:

On 4/1/09, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:
> I have no issue with red-light cameras, if they provide a yellow  
light of
> adequate length to safely stop after noticing the light change,  
say 5 or 6
> seconds.  As for the speed cameras, well, I am agenst speed limits  
and
> believe it should be safe and prudent as seen by an officer and  
confirmed by
> a judge. As for the cameras in particular, no one has been able to  
make
> public a report showing they do anything other then annoy drivers.  
Accidents

> have not gone down ...

Photo radar saves lives.  Period.

According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because  
of photo
radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, and  
fatality

collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.

No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply  
because
of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway  
speed laws.

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Re: SLUG

[Stephen]

Fragment from PLUG... well i cant imagine the volume of traffic that
would ensue if all the metro phx LUG's pooled into one store...

and besides it might be as simple as group of geeks said hay lets
"blah" and a LUG was formed... so not fragmented from but kind of
coughed up unrelated.

and there are many more...

As fro events i figure most anyone can create an event, not just the
"official" plug maintainers. Just find a place time and purpose then
invite people and see what happens :-)
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Josef Lowder]

On 4/2/09, Eric Cope  wrote:
> link to those statistics?

http://photoenforcement.azdps.gov/Questions/

A comprehensive statistical analysis was recently conducted by the
Arizona State University for the Arizona Department of Transportation
(ADOT) and the Arizona Department of Public Safety (DPS) following the
first ever United States Freeway program. When examining the crashes
the study used non-peak hours which amounted to approximately 18 hours
per day on the weekdays and all day during the weekend. It was
determined that during the peak or "rush hour" periods, traffic was
slowed below the posted speed limit due to congestion. The program
results were dramatic:

-  The program reduced average speeds by approximately 9 mph.
-  Total collisions were reduced by 44% to 54%
-  Total injury crashes were reduced by 28% to 48%
-  Single vehicle crashes were reduced by 59% to 63%
-  Sideswipe collisions were reduced by 33% to 48%
-  Rear end collisions ranged from a 14% increase down to a 23%
decrease dependent upon which of the comparison models were used.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Speed kills.

Murder (and manslaughter) are illegal.

Preventing murder and/or manslaughter from reckless, irresponsible
driving (i.e. speeding in violation of posted speed laws) is not in
any way an intrusion on individual rights.

There is no sensible basis for opposing photo radar speed limit enforcement.

Opposition to photo radar is tantamount to advocating legalization of
murder and/or manslaughter in any form by any means.
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Re: Web Server Issues Centos

[Stephen]

I had al sorts of issues getting a centos web server to play nice
(still having an issue with ocsinventory) but i used this as a
guideline and it came up beautifully

http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-centos-5.2

it is intended for a specific purpose, but it gives some very handy
information on things you may want your server to run and makes fro a
nicely prepared webserver.
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Charles Jones]

Personally to me the fact whether or not speed cameras save lives is 
irrelevant.  The  #1 reason the speed cameras were installed was due to 
the money they would bring in, not for our safety.  Yet when people 
complain about them, they try to play the safety card instead of just 
admitting they are loving their new cash cow (and so is the company that 
installed the cameras that is getting a cut of the profits).
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Multidimensional indexing in MySQL

[Bryan O'Neal]

I am looking for a way to create multidimensional indexes in MySQL but can't
seem to find it.  Perhaps I am looking for the wrong name, I believe they
are called OLAP Hypercube, but it has been a while since that DB class.  It
is simple in DB2 and I remember doing them in Oracle, so I make the
assumption that MySQL would support them as well; perhaps this is not a good
assumption.
 
Thoughts, suggestions?
 
 

Bryan O'Neal 
O'Neal & Associates 
Phone: (602) 295-4356
Fax: (602) 795-6050
E-Mail: bryan.on...@theonealandassociates.com 


  Blogger  
Twitter   Linkedin




 
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Eric Cope]

Did you read the report?
Statements like "not statistically relavant" don't speak well for the study.
Statistical variations of 20% speak for the poor (very noisy) data, at least
in my opinion (receiving a PhD degree in statistical signal processing for
what its worth).
Those results should be taken with a large grain of salt. I'll read more of
the report later...

Eric

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Josef Lowder  wrote:

> On 4/2/09, Eric Cope  wrote:
> > link to those statistics?
>
> http://photoenforcement.azdps.gov/Questions/
>
> A comprehensive statistical analysis was recently conducted by the
> Arizona State University for the Arizona Department of Transportation
> (ADOT) and the Arizona Department of Public Safety (DPS) following the
> first ever United States Freeway program. When examining the crashes
> the study used non-peak hours which amounted to approximately 18 hours
> per day on the weekdays and all day during the weekend. It was
> determined that during the peak or "rush hour" periods, traffic was
> slowed below the posted speed limit due to congestion. The program
> results were dramatic:
>
> -  The program reduced average speeds by approximately 9 mph.
> -  Total collisions were reduced by 44% to 54%
> -  Total injury crashes were reduced by 28% to 48%
> -  Single vehicle crashes were reduced by 59% to 63%
> -  Sideswipe collisions were reduced by 33% to 48%
> -  Rear end collisions ranged from a 14% increase down to a 23%
> decrease dependent upon which of the comparison models were used.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Speed kills.
>
> Murder (and manslaughter) are illegal.
>
> Preventing murder and/or manslaughter from reckless, irresponsible
> driving (i.e. speeding in violation of posted speed laws) is not in
> any way an intrusion on individual rights.
>
> There is no sensible basis for opposing photo radar speed limit
> enforcement.
>
> Opposition to photo radar is tantamount to advocating legalization of
> murder and/or manslaughter in any form by any means.
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Joshua A. Andler]

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 10:55 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
> There is no sensible basis for opposing photo radar speed limit enforcement.

Give me a break... if the people don't want it, and the government is
supposed to work for the people, that is a sensible basis.

> Opposition to photo radar is tantamount to advocating legalization of
> murder and/or manslaughter in any form by any means.

Wow... that is probably the most absurd oversimplification I've seen on
this list so far. Murder and Manslaughter have very different
definitions and legal implications.

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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Dorian A. Monroe, II]

Maybe I'm too idealistic, but I don't believe that they were put in 
place only for the money.  The company that built the cameras is not 
getting a cut of the profits.  They are getting paid according to a 
contract that they've signed with the government.  If no revenue was 
generated from tickets as a result of the cameras, they would still get 
their money according to the contract.

There is no dollar amount that can be set for the value of a life. 
Accidents and injuries on the highways are now lower than they were 
before the cameras were put in place.  The most likely variable that 
influenced the reduction in injuries is the presence of the cameras. 
It's my opinion that the people that are against cameras have a 
disregard for the lives of others.

In the past, I thought that it may even be a good idea to create an 
additional class of driver's license for people that could prove that 
they are capable of driving safer at higher speeds.  Having more 
extensive driving exams and frequent and strict car inspections for 
these people would allow them to drive maybe an extra 10mph over the 
posted limit with designated plates or something.  My views on this 
changed after I had my daughter.  :)

The problem is that no matter how well you can drive, you still have to 
be concerned about everyone else on the road.  There have been times 
when I'm driving down the road at the speed limit and paying attention 
to the road (in front of me, primarily) to have someone pass in the 
adjacent lane some 20+mph faster than me.  They came up so quickly that 
perhaps in the timing of my rearward glances I missed them and then all 
of a sudden they're beside me and gone.  Maybe they're a really "good" 
driver, but it shocks the beejeezus out of me.  Now what if I had 
decided to change lanes, or if anything unexpected were to happen? 
Debris on the road?  What if I were someone that didn't have good 
reflexes?  I would be really mad if that person caused me to have an 
accident.  I would be heartbroken and destroyed if anything were to 
happen to my daughter as a result of someone else's disregard for 
safety.

There are many arguments for and against the speed cameras, like the 
right to face your accuser in court.  If you've had your picture taken 
by one of these cameras, you were breaking a law.  If you were to get 
pulled over by an officer, you would most likely get a fine and points 
on your license.  Your insurance may go up.  If you've had a couple 
accidents in the past and already have enough points you may lose your 
license.  If you get your picture taken, you only have a fine.  It's a 
trade-off that I think is acceptable.


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:20 AM , Charles Jones wrote:

> Personally to me the fact whether or not speed cameras save lives is 
> irrelevant.  The  #1 reason the speed cameras were installed was due 
> to the money they would bring in, not for our safety.  Yet when people 
> complain about them, they try to play the safety card instead of just 
> admitting they are loving their new cash cow (and so is the company 
> that installed the cameras that is getting a cut of the profits).
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Re: Multidimensional indexing in MySQL

[Alex Dean]

On Apr 2, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Bryan O'Neal wrote:

I am looking for a way to create multidimensional indexes in MySQL  
but can't seem to find it.  Perhaps I am looking for the wrong name,  
I believe they are called OLAP Hypercube, but it has been a while  
since that DB class.  It is simple in DB2 and I remember doing them  
in Oracle, so I make the assumption that MySQL would support them as  
well; perhaps this is not a good assumption.


Thoughts, suggestions?



Try searching.

First Google result for 'mysql olap' found this thread, which I  
believe answers your question : http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?32,65494,65494#msg-65494




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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Joshua A. Andler]

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 14:57 -0400, Dorian A. Monroe, II wrote:
> It's my opinion that the people that are against cameras have a 
> disregard for the lives of others.

Wow... that is quite the opinion then. I'm sorry you're so willing to
sell people short before even getting their side of things. I can't say
that it speaks too highly of your interpretation of the world
(everything is black and white, right?).

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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[der.hans]

Am 02. Apr, 2009 schwätzte Josef Lowder so:


On 4/1/09, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:

I have no issue with red-light cameras, if they provide a yellow light of
adequate length to safely stop after noticing the light change, say 5 or 6
seconds.  As for the speed cameras, well, I am agenst speed limits and
believe it should be safe and prudent as seen by an officer and confirmed by
a judge. As for the cameras in particular, no one has been able to make
public a report showing they do anything other then annoy drivers. Accidents
have not gone down ...


Photo radar saves lives.  Period.


No. Photo radar is a cash cow for the government and a company in
Scottsdale.


According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of photo
radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, and fatality
collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.


DPS came out with its study stating that photo radar had reduced
accidents, but in the same announcement had to admit the study hadn't
taken into account that there might've been reductions in the traffic
due to the cost of gas ( the study was done during the height of the gas
prices ) or due to people being unemployed and no longer on the road or
any other reason. It was acknowledged that traffic known to be was down,
but that wasn't considered as a potential reason for the reduction in
accidentѕ.

It's a bogus study. Heck, it starts off with "Speeding is recognized as
one of the most important factors causing traffic accidents.", so it's
not even trying to appear to be a neutral study. Photo radar has been
around for decades in various forms. And yet, there is only one study
touting photo radar's benefits and that study is biased, prejudiced and
compromised?

Ha, ha. Douglas Adams makes an appearance since the speed enforcement
program is abbreviated as SEP. I think that explains how the government
has been able to get away with the improper relationship of having a
private company get bribed to do law enforcement.


No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply because
of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway speed laws.


I want photo radar eliminated because I'm opposed to big brother[0],
illegal business contracts, allowing companies to masquerade as law
enforcement, artificially dangerous road conditions[1], and Dukes of
Hazzard style changing of speed limits in order to ambush people with the
cameras[2].

In any case, there's a ballot initiative where we can partially vote them
out.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/131797

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Arizona_Citizens_Against_Photo_Radar_(2010)

http://camerafraud.wordpress.com/

[0] There are reports that the cameras are also taking HD video all the
time.

[1] The photo radar flashes can cause a white out effect on the driver
when they go off. This is a huge problem for motorcyclists as it blinds
them for a second and worse blinds the car drivers near them[3]. I have
even had my cabin white out due to a photo radar flash at dusk while I
was on an access ramp waiting to get on the freeway. My eyes are just
fine. Photo radar flashes are unsafe.

[2] Phoenix seems to be getting better about this by actually posting the
speed limit changes far enough in front of the cameras to actually read
the new numbers before getting to the cameras. Tempe, however, appears to
be changing signs to lower speed limits :(. For months there was photo
radar after freeway interchanges where the speed limit had changed, but
there was no sign to indicate the change.

[3] Getting blinded as you're legally turning left after a yellow on a
motorcycle sucks. Period.

ciao,

der.hans
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Charles Jones]

Don't forget that the current implementation of the speed cams are not 
just still-frame cameras that snap a picture if you trigger them, they 
are HD live-feed video cameras as well. If there were enough of them 
spread about, your movements could easily be tracked by noting what time 
you left your house, and passed other cams on the way. Of course this 
can also be done via satellite or just having a member of a 3-letter 
agency follow you :)

I personally did not know that the cameras had video until someone tried 
to dispute a ticket and they were shown a full video sequence.
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Re: SLUG

[der.hans]

Am 02. Apr, 2009 schwätzte Stephen so:

moin moin,


As fro events i figure most anyone can create an event, not just the
"official" plug maintainers. Just find a place time and purpose then
invite people and see what happens :-)


Yup. PLUG certainly doesn't have a monopoly. Even within PLUG all events
are because someone started them. In recent times Alexander started our
monthly Installfests and Lisa started our monthly security Hackfests.

Thanks also to Ed, Scott and Lisa for stepping forward to reinvigorate the
developers meeting.

Also, while it's not a PLUG event, the Free Software Stammtisch in
Avondale came about because tuna wanted an event in his part of town.

ciao,

der.hans
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Eric Cope]

quoting, *There is no dollar amount that can be set for the value of a life.
*

That's an interesting topic. To save some one's life from, let say, traffic
collisions, costs $1,000,000, but we can save 10 burn victim's lives for
$100,000, then, not only can we put a price on human life, we can put a cost
on saving human lives in perspective. Obviously, these particular numbers
are fake, however there are numbers associated with saving every single
life, and because we live in a place of finite resources, we must decide how
we use those resources to save some, if any, of those lives. It is nice to
dictate via the government that we save all lives, but its at least
impractical, and at most statist.

In reference to the rest of your post, you will never eliminate all risk
from your or your daughter's life. If driving on the freeway is too risky
for your life (or your daughter's), then choose to drive on surface streets,
or walk, or bicycle, or stay home and pay for others to bring their goods
and services to you. I have a son and I mitigate the risks associated with
begin alive every single day, and its our role as parents to not only
mitigate life's risks, but teach this risk mitigation to our kids as well.

Eric

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Dorian A. Monroe, II  wrote:

> Maybe I'm too idealistic, but I don't believe that they were put in
> place only for the money.  The company that built the cameras is not
> getting a cut of the profits.  They are getting paid according to a
> contract that they've signed with the government.  If no revenue was
> generated from tickets as a result of the cameras, they would still get
> their money according to the contract.
>
> There is no dollar amount that can be set for the value of a life.
> Accidents and injuries on the highways are now lower than they were
> before the cameras were put in place.  The most likely variable that
> influenced the reduction in injuries is the presence of the cameras.
> It's my opinion that the people that are against cameras have a
> disregard for the lives of others.
>
> In the past, I thought that it may even be a good idea to create an
> additional class of driver's license for people that could prove that
> they are capable of driving safer at higher speeds.  Having more
> extensive driving exams and frequent and strict car inspections for
> these people would allow them to drive maybe an extra 10mph over the
> posted limit with designated plates or something.  My views on this
> changed after I had my daughter.  :)
>
> The problem is that no matter how well you can drive, you still have to
> be concerned about everyone else on the road.  There have been times
> when I'm driving down the road at the speed limit and paying attention
> to the road (in front of me, primarily) to have someone pass in the
> adjacent lane some 20+mph faster than me.  They came up so quickly that
> perhaps in the timing of my rearward glances I missed them and then all
> of a sudden they're beside me and gone.  Maybe they're a really "good"
> driver, but it shocks the beejeezus out of me.  Now what if I had
> decided to change lanes, or if anything unexpected were to happen?
> Debris on the road?  What if I were someone that didn't have good
> reflexes?  I would be really mad if that person caused me to have an
> accident.  I would be heartbroken and destroyed if anything were to
> happen to my daughter as a result of someone else's disregard for
> safety.
>
> There are many arguments for and against the speed cameras, like the
> right to face your accuser in court.  If you've had your picture taken
> by one of these cameras, you were breaking a law.  If you were to get
> pulled over by an officer, you would most likely get a fine and points
> on your license.  Your insurance may go up.  If you've had a couple
> accidents in the past and already have enough points you may lose your
> license.  If you get your picture taken, you only have a fine.  It's a
> trade-off that I think is acceptable.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:20 AM , Charles Jones wrote:
>
> > Personally to me the fact whether or not speed cameras save lives is
> > irrelevant.  The  #1 reason the speed cameras were installed was due
> > to the money they would bring in, not for our safety.  Yet when people
> > complain about them, they try to play the safety card instead of just
> > admitting they are loving their new cash cow (and so is the company
> > that installed the cameras that is getting a cut of the profits).
> > ---
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Lyle Tuttle]

clip, clip


There are many arguments for and against the speed cameras, like the
right to face your accuser in court.  If you've had your picture taken
by one of these cameras, you were breaking a law.


So, you're telling me that both my speedometer and my GPS (both 
reading the same MPH, and both double-checked as correct against the 
portable speed read-out devices) were wrong, and the camera was 
correct?  Maybe that's what caused my wife, riding with me, upon 
seeing the flash, to exclaim "What the heck?  That can't be us!" as 
she looked at the GPS, plainly visible to her, reading well below the 
trigger point for the camera.


Look, I'm not stupid.  I KNOW where the cameras are, and I do not 
choose to give my money away.so why would I speed past them?


After speaking with a Judge friend of mine about which court I would 
face, my $182.50 payment was made to save the additional court costs, 
as these machines never fail...right?


If you think for one minute that these were NOT installed to generate 
revenue, you are not very politically awaresorry if that 
offends you...



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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Josef Lowder]

On 4/2/09, Joshua A. Andler  wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 10:55 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
>  > There is no sensible basis for opposing photo radar speed limit 
> enforcement.
>
> Give me a break... if the people don't want it, and the government is
>  supposed to work for the people, that is a sensible basis.

That is absurd.  It is not, by any logic or reason, sensible to oppose
enforcement of laws that exist to protect human life.  If any given
law is improper or needs to be modified in some way, then it is
reasonable for "the people" to seek to change the law.  However,
unless and until any given law is changed, it is certainly not
"sensible" to oppose enforcement of any laws that have been
established to protect human life and safety.

The bottom line in this matter is simply whether (A) there should be
enforcement of established laws or whether (B) blatant disregard for
established laws should be tolerated.

Your premise seems to be "B," that if "the people" do not want
enforcement of any given established law, then it is "sensible" for
them to just ignore, disregard, and/or disobey it at will.

My premise is "A" that all laws that have been established by
governing authorities in a civilized society should be enforced.

Which is sensible, and which is clearly not sensible?

>  > Opposition to photo radar is tantamount to advocating legalization of
>  > murder and/or manslaughter in any form by any means.
>
> Wow... that is probably the most absurd oversimplification I've seen on
>  this list so far. Murder and Manslaughter have very different
>  definitions and legal implications.

I agree that murder and manslaughter have very different definitions
and legal implications.

However, the fact that they have different definitions and legal
implications does not in any way make the underlying premise
incorrect.  That foundational premise is that for anyone to cause the
death of another person by reckless driving (including exceeding
posted speed limits) is manslaughter.  And part two of this premise is
that if anyone knowingly and intentionally facilitates the commision
of a fatal act such as manslaughter, that can be shown to be murder in
the second or third degree.

Therefore, it is most assuredly *not* either "absurd" or an
"oversimplification" to point out that failure to maintain and
vigorously enforce established safety laws by all means possible is
tantamount to advocating legalization of murder and/or manslaughter.

Those who argue against enforcing established laws clearly do not have
any reasonable, sensible, or justifiable basis for their arguments.
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Alan Dayley]

Please stop this thread.  Yes, it is appropriately marked "OT" for
off-topic.  Yes, many on this list enjoy law/politics/ethics/etc.
discussions.  However, every time in recent history that we have had
an off topic thread go to long, people leave this list and the group.
I know several high-caliber people that will not come back to the list
because they want Linux discussions.

Take it off list please.

Alan

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Josef Lowder  wrote:
> On 4/2/09, Joshua A. Andler  wrote:
>> On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 10:55 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
>>  > There is no sensible basis for opposing photo radar speed limit 
>> enforcement.
>>
>> Give me a break... if the people don't want it, and the government is
>>  supposed to work for the people, that is a sensible basis.
>
> That is absurd.  It is not, by any logic or reason, sensible to oppose
> enforcement of laws that exist to protect human life.  If any given
> law is improper or needs to be modified in some way, then it is
> reasonable for "the people" to seek to change the law.  However,
> unless and until any given law is changed, it is certainly not
> "sensible" to oppose enforcement of any laws that have been
> established to protect human life and safety.
>
> The bottom line in this matter is simply whether (A) there should be
> enforcement of established laws or whether (B) blatant disregard for
> established laws should be tolerated.
>
> Your premise seems to be "B," that if "the people" do not want
> enforcement of any given established law, then it is "sensible" for
> them to just ignore, disregard, and/or disobey it at will.
>
> My premise is "A" that all laws that have been established by
> governing authorities in a civilized society should be enforced.
>
> Which is sensible, and which is clearly not sensible?
>
>>  > Opposition to photo radar is tantamount to advocating legalization of
>>  > murder and/or manslaughter in any form by any means.
>>
>> Wow... that is probably the most absurd oversimplification I've seen on
>>  this list so far. Murder and Manslaughter have very different
>>  definitions and legal implications.
>
> I agree that murder and manslaughter have very different definitions
> and legal implications.
>
> However, the fact that they have different definitions and legal
> implications does not in any way make the underlying premise
> incorrect.  That foundational premise is that for anyone to cause the
> death of another person by reckless driving (including exceeding
> posted speed limits) is manslaughter.  And part two of this premise is
> that if anyone knowingly and intentionally facilitates the commision
> of a fatal act such as manslaughter, that can be shown to be murder in
> the second or third degree.
>
> Therefore, it is most assuredly *not* either "absurd" or an
> "oversimplification" to point out that failure to maintain and
> vigorously enforce established safety laws by all means possible is
> tantamount to advocating legalization of murder and/or manslaughter.
>
> Those who argue against enforcing established laws clearly do not have
> any reasonable, sensible, or justifiable basis for their arguments.
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Grzegorz Furmanek]

No offense but you are missing the most important point here.

I don't believe anyone is against enforcement of laws.  But the fact
remains that cameras will not stop anyone from driving like a maniac.

Is a matter of fact the cameras appear (no study provided) to reduce
the law enforcement presence on the roads which in my opinion
is actually a very bad thing.

Someone who is doing 20 mph over the speed limit may not give a damn
if he/she gets a picture taken but that person will be compelled to care
when is cuffed in the back of the police car and being charged with  
criminal
speeding.

BTW, most of the tickets aren't validated against the make and model  
of your
vehicle so anyone can make a mockup of your license plate and speed
getting you tickets left and right.  You will have to explain that  
it's not your car.

So in my view Sped Cams are just an inadequate substitution for real
law enforcement.

- Greg


>
> The bottom line in this matter is simply whether (A) there should be
> enforcement of established laws or whether (B) blatant disregard for
> established laws should be tolerated.
>
> Your premise seems to be "B," that if "the people" do not want
> enforcement of any given established law, then it is "sensible" for
> them to just ignore, disregard, and/or disobey it at will.
>
> My premise is "A" that all laws that have been established by
> governing authorities in a civilized society should be enforced.
>
> Which is sensible, and which is clearly not sensible?
>
> I agree that murder and manslaughter have very different definitions
> and legal implications.
>
> However, the fact that they have different definitions and legal
> implications does not in any way make the underlying premise
> incorrect.  That foundational premise is that for anyone to cause the
> death of another person by reckless driving (including exceeding
> posted speed limits) is manslaughter.  And part two of this premise is
> that if anyone knowingly and intentionally facilitates the commision
> of a fatal act such as manslaughter, that can be shown to be murder in
> the second or third degree.
>
> Therefore, it is most assuredly *not* either "absurd" or an
> "oversimplification" to point out that failure to maintain and
> vigorously enforce established safety laws by all means possible is
> tantamount to advocating legalization of murder and/or manslaughter.
>
> Those who argue against enforcing established laws clearly do not have
> any reasonable, sensible, or justifiable basis for their arguments.
>



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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Joshua A. Andler]

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 12:58 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
> On 4/2/09, Joshua A. Andler  wrote:
> > On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 10:55 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
> >  > There is no sensible basis for opposing photo radar speed limit 
> > enforcement.
> >
> > Give me a break... if the people don't want it, and the government is
> >  supposed to work for the people, that is a sensible basis.
> 
> That is absurd.  It is not, by any logic or reason, sensible to oppose
> enforcement of laws that exist to protect human life.

Oh, but see, this is starting to sound like a bullshit excuse for a
pro-life debate. When the laws were not voted on by the people, and the
people had no say in them, well... it sounds like prohibition in that
way. So yes, it is sensible to oppose them if it is not the will of the
people. Why not just go all the way and outlaw driving altogether?
Nationally that would be ~40,000 lives saved a year... after all, if the
goal is to save lives, that will solve all of our traffic related
fatality issues. Now THAT would be absurd...

> The bottom line in this matter is simply whether (A) there should be
> enforcement of established laws or whether (B) blatant disregard for
> established laws should be tolerated.
> 
> Your premise seems to be "B," that if "the people" do not want
> enforcement of any given established law, then it is "sensible" for
> them to just ignore, disregard, and/or disobey it at will.
> 
> My premise is "A" that all laws that have been established by
> governing authorities in a civilized society should be enforced.
> 
> Which is sensible, and which is clearly not sensible?

I think that there is enough blatant disregard for all kinds of laws
that it is a moot point. In AZ, if you and your wife had partaken in any
sex acts other than straight up, missionary position, it was illegal
(until 2001). Were those archaic laws of 1901 still sensible? (no, I
don't want to know about your prude and boring sex life ;))

Okay, there was a request to end this thread that showed up... I'll
respect that, but I do think we should set up an OT list, I think enough
discussions have been ended this way to merit it.

Cheers,
Josh

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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Alex Dean]

On Apr 2, 2009, at 1:09 PM, Alan Dayley wrote:



Take it off list please.


+1


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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Grzegorz Furmanek]

+1

I think this would have been a nice discussion for meatspace with
some snacks and maybe couple of beers. :-)


On Apr 2, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Alex Dean wrote:

>
> On Apr 2, 2009, at 1:09 PM, Alan Dayley wrote:
>
>>
>> Take it off list please.
>
> +1
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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[Craig White]

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 12:54 -0700, Lyle Tuttle wrote:
> clip, clip
> 
> > There are many arguments for and against the speed cameras, like
> > the 
> > right to face your accuser in court.  If you've had your picture
> > taken 
> > by one of these cameras, you were breaking a law.
> 
> So, you're telling me that both my speedometer and my GPS (both
> reading the same MPH, and both double-checked as correct against the
> portable speed read-out devices) were wrong, and the camera was
> correct?  Maybe that's what caused my wife, riding with me, upon
> seeing the flash, to exclaim "What the heck?  That can't be us!" as
> she looked at the GPS, plainly visible to her, reading well below the
> trigger point for the camera.
> 
> Look, I'm not stupid.  I KNOW where the cameras are, and I do not
> choose to give my money away.so why would I speed past them?  
> 
> After speaking with a Judge friend of mine about which court I would
> face, my $182.50 payment was made to save the additional court costs,
> as these machines never fail...right?
> 
> If you think for one minute that these were NOT installed to generate
> revenue, you are not very politically awaresorry if that
> offends you...

I agree that it's about the money but I think what's unstated is that if
it was off and you were only going 74 and not 76 mp/h, it's still 9 over
the posted limit of 65.

But it is all about the money.

Craig


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free install yesterday

[der.hans]

moin moin,

Red Seven was offering free installs of GNU/Linux yesterday. We missed it.

I think they did the same thing last year, so this is your 364 day
warning for next year :).

http://www.evliving.com/2009/03/30/4910/redseven-free-linux-install/

ciao,

der.hans
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Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues

[Eric Cope]

Anyone have any ideas?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:

> Hello all,
> I am running a FreeBSD 7 server at home. I recently filled up the /usr
> partition. I cleaned it out, but now I can't connect with my OpenVPN client
> nor via Samba. I can connect via SSH. The logs look normal, other than these
> lines in debug.log
>
> ...
> Mar 26 23:50:58 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
> not on local network
> Apr  1 21:48:09 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
> not on local network
>
> followed by "this message repeated xxx times" several times.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Eric
>
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Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues

[Alex Dean]

Maybe try Phoenix BUG?

http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/

On Apr 2, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Eric Cope wrote:


Anyone have any ideas?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:
Hello all,
I am running a FreeBSD 7 server at home. I recently filled up the / 
usr partition. I cleaned it out, but now I can't connect with my  
OpenVPN client nor via Samba. I can connect via SSH. The logs look  
normal, other than these lines in debug.log


...
Mar 26 23:50:58 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed:  
host is not on local network
Apr  1 21:48:09 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed:  
host is not on local network


followed by "this message repeated xxx times" several times.

Any ideas?

Eric

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RE: OT: Speed Cams

[Bryan O'Neal]

Cool, where can I get a copy of this report? 

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Josef
Lowder
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:25 AM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Speed Cams

On 4/1/09, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:
> I have no issue with red-light cameras, if they provide a yellow light 
> of adequate length to safely stop after noticing the light change, say 
> 5 or 6 seconds.  As for the speed cameras, well, I am agenst speed 
> limits and believe it should be safe and prudent as seen by an officer 
> and confirmed by a judge. As for the cameras in particular, no one has 
> been able to make public a report showing they do anything other then 
> annoy drivers. Accidents have not gone down ...

Photo radar saves lives.  Period.

According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of photo
radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, and fatality
collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.

No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply because
of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway speed
laws.
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RE: OT: Speed Cams

[Bryan O'Neal]

True, or simply require auto manufactures to put limiters as factory
standard equipment making it imposable for any car to ever drive above
75mph. The fact is it is not about safety, if it was points would be used
and repeat offenders would have their licenses revoked. 

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Craig
White
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:44 AM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Speed Cams

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 09:24 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
> On 4/1/09, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:
> > I have no issue with red-light cameras, if they provide a yellow 
> > light of adequate length to safely stop after noticing the light 
> > change, say 5 or 6 seconds.  As for the speed cameras, well, I am 
> > agenst speed limits and believe it should be safe and prudent as 
> > seen by an officer and confirmed by a judge. As for the cameras in 
> > particular, no one has been able to make public a report showing 
> > they do anything other then annoy drivers. Accidents have not gone down
...
> 
> Photo radar saves lives.  Period.
> 
> According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of 
> photo radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, 
> and fatality collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.
> 
> No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply 
> because of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway
speed laws.

The state tried to increase revenue with these cameras and implemented a
system where there was only a single financial penalty for being captured on
photo radar. No points against your license, no report to insurance...just
money.

While there is a direct correlation to speed and fatalities, there's no
accommodation for reasonable and prudent, only a hard line between 75 &
76 mp/h where money changes hands. 76 mp/h during rush hours is infinitely
more dangerous than at 11:00 pm when the traffic is sparse.

If speed were the only issue, let's just lower the speed limits everywhere
and people will be much safer. I am quite certain that if the speed limit on
the 101 was 45 mp/h, there would hardly be any fatalities.

Craig


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RE: OT: Speed Cams

[Bryan O'Neal]

I've seen six, all on the I-10 within a few months of install; but people
seem calmer now.

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Joshua
A. Andler
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:53 AM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Speed Cams

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 09:24 -0700, Josef Lowder wrote:
> Photo radar saves lives.  Period.

So does driving responsibly... and, you know, paying attention.

> According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of 
> photo radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, 
> and fatality collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.

I've seen a couple accidents (literally 2) take place first-hand due to
people reacting to the sight of the cameras. Apparently panic induced, the
individuals abruptly slammed on their brakes to avoid a picture. I'm not
saying that the drivers behind those vehicles shouldn't have been at a safer
distance, but the cameras don't only prevent accidents, in some cases they
cause them.

I also take the DPS statistics with a grain of salt, as it does generate a
healthy amount of revenue for the state that they'd like to continue
receiving.

> No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply 
> because of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway
speed laws.

Okay, this argument could be made for any number of things that the laws
restrict us from partaking in... in the name of protection. The entire
notion that the government does things against the will of the people, and
that people accept it... well, it greatly saddens and disturbs me. I say
that because I've definitely heard more complaints than praise about the
speed cameras.

Cheers,
Josh

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RE: OT: Speed Cams

[Bryan O'Neal]

Of course, if we outlawed cars entirely we would never have auto
accidents...  And their would be no need to spend all that money on
understructure, of course our society based on specialization and cheep
transport would also collapse, but hey, they numbers look great ;)
 
Their is a certain amount of responsibility and risk associated with
driving, it is why you need to be licensed to do so. The fact that a camera
can not distingue between safe maneuvers (merging into open space to the
front and right) and dangerous behavior like squidding through traffic, is a
problem.

  _  

From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Grzegorz
Furmanek
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:45 AM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Speed Cams


I have to concur with the other critics of speed cameras.  Any statistical 
data generated by the DPS should be carefully examined and verified 
before making conclusive statements.

I do agree speed does play a role in severity of accidents and it should
be considered a factor in decreased time for reaction, however
the bigger issue is the fact that people do not pay attention to the road
to begin with.

Some other statistics I have seen show that talking on the phone while
driving decreases the reaction time to levels of an intoxicated person.
The studies did not even mention dialing the phone.  Only talking and it
did not really matter if it was hands-free or not.

Also one may argue that putting cameras all over the place causes
people to pay more attention to spotting the cameras and less on driving
itself.  Which also is not the optimal for driving.

Just my 2 cents.


On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Eric Cope wrote:


link to those statistics?


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Josef Lowder  wrote:


On 4/1/09, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:
> I have no issue with red-light cameras, if they provide a yellow light of
> adequate length to safely stop after noticing the light change, say 5 or 6
> seconds.  As for the speed cameras, well, I am agenst speed limits and
> believe it should be safe and prudent as seen by an officer and confirmed
by
> a judge. As for the cameras in particular, no one has been able to make
> public a report showing they do anything other then annoy drivers.
Accidents

> have not gone down ...

Photo radar saves lives.  Period.

According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of photo
radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, and fatality
collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.

No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply because
of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway speed
laws.

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RE: OT: Speed Cams

[Bryan O'Neal]

Just for those who may not know, a Squid is a motorcyclist who weaves in and
out of traffic
 
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squid
 

  _  

From: Bryan O'Neal [mailto:bon...@cornerstonehome.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 2:19 PM
To: 'Main PLUG discussion list'
Subject: RE: OT: Speed Cams


Of course, if we outlawed cars entirely we would never have auto
accidents...  And their would be no need to spend all that money on
understructure, of course our society based on specialization and cheep
transport would also collapse, but hey, they numbers look great ;)
 
Their is a certain amount of responsibility and risk associated with
driving, it is why you need to be licensed to do so. The fact that a camera
can not distingue between safe maneuvers (merging into open space to the
front and right) and dangerous behavior like squidding through traffic, is a
problem.

  _  

From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Grzegorz
Furmanek
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:45 AM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Speed Cams


I have to concur with the other critics of speed cameras.  Any statistical 
data generated by the DPS should be carefully examined and verified 
before making conclusive statements.

I do agree speed does play a role in severity of accidents and it should
be considered a factor in decreased time for reaction, however
the bigger issue is the fact that people do not pay attention to the road
to begin with.

Some other statistics I have seen show that talking on the phone while
driving decreases the reaction time to levels of an intoxicated person.
The studies did not even mention dialing the phone.  Only talking and it
did not really matter if it was hands-free or not.

Also one may argue that putting cameras all over the place causes
people to pay more attention to spotting the cameras and less on driving
itself.  Which also is not the optimal for driving.

Just my 2 cents.


On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Eric Cope wrote:


link to those statistics?


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Josef Lowder  wrote:


On 4/1/09, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:
> I have no issue with red-light cameras, if they provide a yellow light of
> adequate length to safely stop after noticing the light change, say 5 or 6
> seconds.  As for the speed cameras, well, I am agenst speed limits and
> believe it should be safe and prudent as seen by an officer and confirmed
by
> a judge. As for the cameras in particular, no one has been able to make
> public a report showing they do anything other then annoy drivers.
Accidents

> have not gone down ...

Photo radar saves lives.  Period.

According to the Arizona State Department of Public Safety, because of photo
radar, crashes are down by 12%, injuries have been cut by 17%, and fatality
collisions are down by 29% on Phoenix-area highways.

No clear-thinking person would want to eliminate photo radar simply because
of their personal desire to want to disregard and disobey highway speed
laws.

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RE: OT: Speed Cams

[Bryan O'Neal]

>> Opposition to photo radar is tantamount to advocating legalization of 
>> murder and/or manslaughter in any form by any means.

>Wow... that is probably the most absurd oversimplification I've seen on
this list so >far. Murder and Manslaughter have very different definitions
and legal implications.

Quick we need to out law fast food stat! It's Murder! 


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RE: OT: Speed Cams

[Bryan O'Neal]

I believe their contract gives them a base amount plus an amount variable
with the number and severity of the tickets generated. In turn they assume
all liability for installment and maintenance of the cameras (save graffiti
and other vandalism that does not require technical repair to resume
operation of the camera) and the state picks up the cost of enforcement.
Rite now it does not make that much money for the state.  I can't find the
stats but the last I heard was something really small like $50K/Mo in net
revenue due to the unenforceable nature of the tickets.

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Dorian
A. Monroe, II
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 11:57 AM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Speed Cams

Maybe I'm too idealistic, but I don't believe that they were put in place
only for the money.  The company that built the cameras is not getting a cut
of the profits.  They are getting paid according to a contract that they've
signed with the government.  If no revenue was generated from tickets as a
result of the cameras, they would still get their money according to the
contract.

There is no dollar amount that can be set for the value of a life. 
Accidents and injuries on the highways are now lower than they were before
the cameras were put in place.  The most likely variable that influenced the
reduction in injuries is the presence of the cameras. 
It's my opinion that the people that are against cameras have a disregard
for the lives of others.

In the past, I thought that it may even be a good idea to create an
additional class of driver's license for people that could prove that they
are capable of driving safer at higher speeds.  Having more extensive
driving exams and frequent and strict car inspections for these people would
allow them to drive maybe an extra 10mph over the posted limit with
designated plates or something.  My views on this changed after I had my
daughter.  :)

The problem is that no matter how well you can drive, you still have to be
concerned about everyone else on the road.  There have been times when I'm
driving down the road at the speed limit and paying attention to the road
(in front of me, primarily) to have someone pass in the adjacent lane some
20+mph faster than me.  They came up so quickly that perhaps in the timing
of my rearward glances I missed them and then all of a sudden they're beside
me and gone.  Maybe they're a really "good" 
driver, but it shocks the beejeezus out of me.  Now what if I had decided to
change lanes, or if anything unexpected were to happen? 
Debris on the road?  What if I were someone that didn't have good reflexes?
I would be really mad if that person caused me to have an accident.  I would
be heartbroken and destroyed if anything were to happen to my daughter as a
result of someone else's disregard for safety.

There are many arguments for and against the speed cameras, like the right
to face your accuser in court.  If you've had your picture taken by one of
these cameras, you were breaking a law.  If you were to get pulled over by
an officer, you would most likely get a fine and points on your license.
Your insurance may go up.  If you've had a couple accidents in the past and
already have enough points you may lose your license.  If you get your
picture taken, you only have a fine.  It's a trade-off that I think is
acceptable.


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:20 AM , Charles Jones wrote:

> Personally to me the fact whether or not speed cameras save lives is 
> irrelevant.  The  #1 reason the speed cameras were installed was due 
> to the money they would bring in, not for our safety.  Yet when people 
> complain about them, they try to play the safety card instead of just 
> admitting they are loving their new cash cow (and so is the company 
> that installed the cameras that is getting a cut of the profits).
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RE: Multidimensional indexing in MySQL

[Bryan O'Neal]

I bow to your superior search skills. Not natively supported is the answer I
will have to deal with.  

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Alex
Dean
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:10 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: Multidimensional indexing in MySQL

On Apr 2, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Bryan O'Neal wrote:

> I am looking for a way to create multidimensional indexes in MySQL but 
> can't seem to find it.  Perhaps I am looking for the wrong name, I 
> believe they are called OLAP Hypercube, but it has been a while since 
> that DB class.  It is simple in DB2 and I remember doing them in 
> Oracle, so I make the assumption that MySQL would support them as 
> well; perhaps this is not a good assumption.
>
> Thoughts, suggestions?
>

Try searching.

First Google result for 'mysql olap' found this thread, which I believe
answers your question :
http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?32,65494,65494#msg-65494


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Re: free install yesterday

[Stephen]

hehe i just did my own at home then, set up and install opensuse 11.1
on my desktop

Got video and sound on my X-Fi Fatality (couldn't get it to compile on Ubuntu)

Still mucking with wine fro a couple of the things i still have windows for.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:46 PM, der.hans  wrote:
> moin moin,
>
> Red Seven was offering free installs of GNU/Linux yesterday. We missed it.
>
> I think they did the same thing last year, so this is your 364 day
> warning for next year :).
>
> http://www.evliving.com/2009/03/30/4910/redseven-free-linux-install/
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> #  http://www.LuftHans.com/        http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
> #  Motorräder töten nicht. Motorräder werden getötet.
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-- 
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rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues

[Stephen]

I have no idea... My last run in with BSD proved its different enough
of a beastie to leave me stumped on some things, just like this one.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Alex Dean  wrote:
> Maybe try Phoenix BUG?
>
> http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
>
> On Apr 2, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Eric Cope wrote:
>
>> Anyone have any ideas?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> I am running a FreeBSD 7 server at home. I recently filled up the /usr
>> partition. I cleaned it out, but now I can't connect with my OpenVPN client
>> nor via Samba. I can connect via SSH. The logs look normal, other than these
>> lines in debug.log
>>
>> ...
>> Mar 26 23:50:58 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>> not on local network
>> Apr  1 21:48:09 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>> not on local network
>>
>> followed by "this message repeated xxx times" several times.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> ---
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-- 
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rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues

[Eric Cope]

I tried registering for the BUG, but as it turns out, I am already a member,
so I guess it isn't as active as PLUG...
Eric

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Alex Dean  wrote:

> Maybe try Phoenix BUG?
>
> http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
>
>
> On Apr 2, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Eric Cope wrote:
>
>  Anyone have any ideas?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> I am running a FreeBSD 7 server at home. I recently filled up the /usr
>> partition. I cleaned it out, but now I can't connect with my OpenVPN client
>> nor via Samba. I can connect via SSH. The logs look normal, other than these
>> lines in debug.log
>>
>> ...
>> Mar 26 23:50:58 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>> not on local network
>> Apr  1 21:48:09 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>> not on local network
>>
>> followed by "this message repeated xxx times" several times.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> ---
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>
>
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Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues

[Stephen]

either that or they all use UUCP to communicate for the "nostalgia" of it...

Disclaimer - And yes its a generalization, but of all the Unix geeks i
know all of them are likley to do something just like that, besides
its funny

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:
> I tried registering for the BUG, but as it turns out, I am already a member,
> so I guess it isn't as active as PLUG...
> Eric
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Alex Dean  wrote:
>>
>> Maybe try Phoenix BUG?
>>
>> http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Eric Cope wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone have any ideas?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am running a FreeBSD 7 server at home. I recently filled up the /usr
>>> partition. I cleaned it out, but now I can't connect with my OpenVPN client
>>> nor via Samba. I can connect via SSH. The logs look normal, other than these
>>> lines in debug.log
>>>
>>> ...
>>> Mar 26 23:50:58 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>>> not on local network
>>> Apr  1 21:48:09 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>>> not on local network
>>>
>>> followed by "this message repeated xxx times" several times.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> ---
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>>
>> ---
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>
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-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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RE: free install yesterday

[Lisa Kachold]

I will add this to the scheduled reminders on the new Drupal 6.10 system, once 
we get port 81 open from Duru, so I can develop in place and swap over when 
ready (our add-ons and database are not compatible for an upgrade to 6 +, so I 
must repopulate)?

Obnosis | (503)754-4452




PLUG Linux Security Labs 2nd Saturday Each mo...@noon - 3PM

> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:46:13 -0700
> From: pl...@lufthans.com
> To: PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: free install yesterday
> 
> moin moin,
> 
> Red Seven was offering free installs of GNU/Linux yesterday. We missed it.
> 
> I think they did the same thing last year, so this is your 364 day
> warning for next year :).
> 
> http://www.evliving.com/2009/03/30/4910/redseven-free-linux-install/
> 
> ciao,
> 
> der.hans
> -- 
> #  http://www.LuftHans.com/http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
> #  Motorräder töten nicht. Motorräder werden getötet.

_
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more ATI/AMD vid specs

[der.hans]

moin moin,

AMD released some more video card specs the other day. It's great to see
them continue meet their commitments to Free Software.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzE3Nw

ciao,

der.hans
-- 
#  http://www.LuftHans.com/http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
#  "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
#   -- Albert Einstein
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Re: more ATI/AMD vid specs

[Stephen]

I just wish they would flesh out their Linux support of their ATI
graphics hardware

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:48 PM, der.hans  wrote:
> moin moin,
>
> AMD released some more video card specs the other day. It's great to see
> them continue meet their commitments to Free Software.
>
> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzE3Nw
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> #  http://www.LuftHans.com/        http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
> #  "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
> #   -- Albert Einstein
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-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: more ATI/AMD vid specs

[der.hans]

Am 02. Apr, 2009 schwätzte Stephen so:


I just wish they would flesh out their Linux support of their ATI
graphics hardware


That's what they're working on. Well, s/Linux/Free Software/ since the
*BSDs can also take advantage of the specs.

Following a link from the original article, we see that AMD is also
providing source code for us.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzE3Ng

AMD is supporting Free Software. It doesn't quite seem to be ready for
prime time, but it's getting there.

ciao,

der.hans
--
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GPL Accounting software

[Craig White]

Just thought I would make list aware of a GPL accounting package that I
am implementing for a client.

webERP

http://www.weberp.org

I have imported virtually everything from his existing software as a
test...customers, inventory, pricing, vendors, purchase orders, purchase
order line items, sales orders, sales order line items and it looks like
a go.

Seems to still be under active development and while mysql and php are
not my personal choices, it seems to be a very nice program.

Craig


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Re: OT: Speed Cams

[David Huerta]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Alan Dayley  wrote:
> Please stop this thread.  Yes, it is appropriately marked "OT" for
> off-topic.  Yes, many on this list enjoy law/politics/ethics/etc.
> discussions.  However, every time in recent history that we have had
> an off topic thread go to long, people leave this list and the group.

Seconded... although for full disclosure I should note that every time
I see a traffic cam, I'll I imagine a zombie George Orwell smashing it
to bits with a cricket bat.

...
david [.dh] huerta
haystackproject.com
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router opinions wanted

[Robert Holtzman]

Total noob wrt networks. I'm about to dive into setting up a home LAN 
and could use some opinions/advise/warnings/ideas about routers. Not
sure yet whether the LAN will be wireless or not.

Any routers to look for? Any to avoid?

Is it possible to disable a wireless router's transmitter and use it 
with cable? I thought I might like to try it as hard wired but 
retain the capability of going wireless later. I've run a lot of 
searches on this question and haven't seen anything.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
  check the price of the beer"
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RE: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues

[Bryan O'Neal]

 I have not used BSD in a while, so I may be speaking out of turn here, but
have you tried clearing the arp cache forcing it to create a new entry to
look up?

 --
*From:* plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:
plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] *On Behalf Of *Eric Cope
*Sent:* Thursday, April 02, 2009 1:51 PM
*To:* Main PLUG discussion list
*Subject:* Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues

Anyone have any ideas?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:

> Hello all,
> I am running a FreeBSD 7 server at home. I recently filled up the /usr
> partition. I cleaned it out, but now I can't connect with my OpenVPN client
> nor via Samba. I can connect via SSH. The logs look normal, other than these
> lines in debug.log
>
> ...
> Mar 26 23:50:58 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
> not on local network
> Apr  1 21:48:09 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
> not on local network
>
> followed by "this message repeated xxx times" several times.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Eric
>
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RE: GPL Accounting software

[Bryan O'Neal]

I was looking at Web ERP However it did not make my top five.  Do you have a
comparison to say Compiere, OpenERP, Opentaps, or more specific to
accounting Postbooks from Xtuple or OpenBravo?  I would love to know why you
choose Open ERP and if I should revisit it. After all resarching on the web
and actualy using it (which I have not) are two entierly difrent things.

Being an accountant I am very interested in your opinions.

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [
mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us]
On Behalf Of Craig White

Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 3:35 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: GPL Accounting software

Just thought I would make list aware of a GPL accounting package that I am
implementing for a client.

webERP

http://www.weberp.org

I have imported virtually everything from his existing software as a
test...customers, inventory, pricing, vendors, purchase orders, purchase
order line items, sales orders, sales order line items and it looks like a
go.

Seems to still be under active development and while mysql and php are not
my personal choices, it seems to be a very nice program.

Craig

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RE: GPL Accounting software

[Craig White]

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 15:56 -0700, Bryan O'Neal wrote:
> I was looking at Web ERP However it did not make my top five.  Do you
> have a comparison to say Compiere, OpenERP, Opentaps, or more specific
> to accounting Postbooks from Xtuple or OpenBravo?  I would love to
> know why you choose Open ERP and if I should revisit it. After all
> resarching on the web and actualy using it (which I have not) are two
> entierly difrent things.
> 
> 
> Being an accountant I am very interested in your opinions.

I've not checked out those others, sorry

Craig


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RE: router opinions wanted

[Bryan O'Neal]

Ok, I'll kick this discussion off, but there are better people then I to
take advice from on this.
If you have a spare computer with at least two nic cards there are a number
of weird firewall router projects out their.  Most of the weird appliances
are "Ok" but not great (unless you are getting a netlink $40 special then
it's not even OK) but you want to make sure they have the features you want.
I used to recommend netgear FVS appliances, but mine is dying on me after
only three years, so no love their.

As for wireless, I would recommend getting something you can flash wrt if
you want more control latter.   Maybe a Linksys WRT54G?


The question I have is what do you want to do? Wired is nice, I do nothing
but, then again I have no issue snaking wires (in the winter only). Then
again, wierless is convenyant if you want to surf on the couch and be wier
free. I relay like to use VPNs so it is on my list but it may not be on
yours.  My list is fairly short

  * Does port forwarding (I think they all do now)
  * Does NAT (Again, they all do)
  * Does Static Routes (Important for me, but not most people)
  * Does Statefull inspection (Most do this, and it's only important if
you use packet intrusion security or use things like IPSec)
  * Does not break IPSec/PFS/L2PT/Etc. (see above)
  * Does custom black listing (Not that many appliances do but I go
slightly hammed down for thinking extensive black listing was a good idea,
perhaps it is not)
  * Prevents DoS (Syn flood, ICMP flood, UDP flood, port scans,
“ping of death,” IP spoofing, land attack, tear drop attack, IP
address sweep attack, Win Nuke attack, etc. Most appliance routers
do this.)
  * Does intrusion detection, preferably with email alerts (Again
important for the paranoid and most appliances do this.)
  * GUI configuration  (Important for the noob and very nice for the
rest of us)
  * QoS (Unless you streaming movies or on a voip call while surfing and
download files this may not be important, and configuring it canslow down
the router casuing incresed delay)
  * DHCP (I think they all do this)
  * IAC (Outbound rules, some do, som don;t. Is it important to have
your router define what can leve your network?)
  * SNMP2 (Proabbly not important for you)
  * Decent logging/reporting (What is decent for me may be more then
adiqaute for you)
  * GUI Dashboard (It's nice, but totaly not necacery)
  * DynDNS (Only important you have dynamic DNS hosting and your IP
changes frequently)
  * Web content filtering (Only if you have kids and want to block all
content containing certain items at the router)
  * DNS Proxy (Not that important)
  * Black list service (Again, thier was a debate on if black listing
should be done as a first line of defence, I think my oipinon of it being
goood was outranked by those smarter then I)

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [
mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us]
On Behalf Of Robert Holtzman

Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 3:54 PM
To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Subject: router opinions wanted

Total noob wrt networks. I'm about to dive into setting up a home LAN and
could use some opinions/advise/warnings/ideas about routers. Not sure yet
whether the LAN will be wireless or not.

Any routers to look for? Any to avoid?

Is it possible to disable a wireless router's transmitter and use it with
cable? I thought I might like to try it as hard wired but retain the
capability of going wireless later. I've run a lot of searches on this
question and haven't seen anything.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
  check the price of the beer"
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RE: GPL Accounting software

[Bryan O'Neal]

If nothing else thanks for the Web ERP mention.  It's not like I posted my
research to spur discussion (bad community member). Truth is there are tons
of good open source ticketing/project management/CRM/Accounting/ and even
ERP software out their!  I am quite excited.

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [
mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us]
On Behalf Of Craig White

Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 4:02 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: RE: GPL Accounting software

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 15:56 -0700, Bryan O'Neal wrote:
> I was looking at Web ERP However it did not make my top five.  Do you
> have a comparison to say Compiere, OpenERP, Opentaps, or more specific
> to accounting Postbooks from Xtuple or OpenBravo?  I would love to
> know why you choose Open ERP and if I should revisit it. After all
> resarching on the web and actualy using it (which I have not) are two
> entierly difrent things.
>
>
> Being an accountant I am very interested in your opinions.

I've not checked out those others, sorry

Craig

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Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues

[Eric Cope]

please excuse my ignorance, but how do you do that? Is it forced every
reboot? I have rebooted several times.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Bryan O'Neal wrote:

>  I have not used BSD in a while, so I may be speaking out of turn here,
> but have you tried clearing the arp cache forcing it to create a new entry
> to look up?
>
>  --
> *From:* plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:
> plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] *On Behalf Of *Eric Cope
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 02, 2009 1:51 PM
> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues
>
> Anyone have any ideas?
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>> I am running a FreeBSD 7 server at home. I recently filled up the /usr
>> partition. I cleaned it out, but now I can't connect with my OpenVPN client
>> nor via Samba. I can connect via SSH. The logs look normal, other than these
>> lines in debug.log
>>
>> ...
>> Mar 26 23:50:58 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>> not on local network
>> Apr  1 21:48:09 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>> not on local network
>>
>> followed by "this message repeated xxx times" several times.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Eric
>>
>
>
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RE: GPL Accounting software

[Craig White]

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 16:32 -0700, Bryan O'Neal wrote:
> If nothing else thanks for the Web ERP mention.  It's not like I
> posted my research to spur discussion (bad community member). Truth is
> there are tons of good open source ticketing/project
> management/CRM/Accounting/ and even ERP software out their!  I am
> quite excited.

I can tell you that it had specific features that this client needed...

- special pricing per customer

- multi-location inventory

Personally, I am encouraged by the fact that it is fully GPL and not
just captive to a corporate support plan which I found common in many
others.

I also can tell you that it is still under active development and I
found a couple of small bugs that were fixed in minutes which I found
encouraging. I have on outstanding problem but am pretty zeroed in on it
at this moment and could probably adjust the php code myself but I'm not
fully up to speed on their coding style and my own php skills languished
once I discovered RoR.  ;-)

Craig


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Cheap NAS or MSI Wind/Eee Box?

[stevensspam]

I have been debating recently whether to pick up a cheapish networked external 
hard drive like a Western Digital My Book (that one initially because it can be 
picked up locally, although initially googling suggests it might not be very 
Linux friendly). Anyone have any experience working with any of the cheap 
Network Attached Storage units? I'd like to hang something off the network that 
my sister and I could back up files with. I have a pair of small/older USB hard 
drives that are okay for occasional use, but it's a touch annoying to have to 
take them from computer to computer when I know better is available.

On the other hand, in my more ambitious moments I get to thinking about picking 
up something like an MSI Wind bare bones unit or Eee Box and just tossing on 
SAMBA and Apache to get both some networked drive space and a local web server 
to play with. Has anyone here worked with the Wind or Eee Box? Both look like 
they could reasonably be placed in a living room without attracting too much 
attention (handy since that's where the cable modem and router are located).
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Re: router opinions wanted

[unixprgrm...@gmail.com]

ck out Netgear I've had good luck with them...

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Robert Holtzman  wrote:

> Total noob wrt networks. I'm about to dive into setting up a home LAN
> and could use some opinions/advise/warnings/ideas about routers. Not
> sure yet whether the LAN will be wireless or not.
>
> Any routers to look for? Any to avoid?
>
> Is it possible to disable a wireless router's transmitter and use it
> with cable? I thought I might like to try it as hard wired but
> retain the capability of going wireless later. I've run a lot of
> searches on this question and haven't seen anything.
>
> --
> Bob Holtzman
> "If you think you're getting free lunch,
>  check the price of the beer"
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>



-- 
Best Regards,
Lynn P. Tilby
Ph: 480 632-8635
unixprgrm...@gmail.com
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Re: Cheap NAS or MSI Wind/Eee Box?

[Craig White]

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 19:46 -0400, stevenss...@cox.net wrote:
> I have been debating recently whether to pick up a cheapish networked 
> external hard drive like a Western Digital My Book (that one initially 
> because it can be picked up locally, although initially googling suggests it 
> might not be very Linux friendly). Anyone have any experience working with 
> any of the cheap Network Attached Storage units? I'd like to hang something 
> off the network that my sister and I could back up files with. I have a pair 
> of small/older USB hard drives that are okay for occasional use, but it's a 
> touch annoying to have to take them from computer to computer when I know 
> better is available.
> 
> On the other hand, in my more ambitious moments I get to thinking about 
> picking up something like an MSI Wind bare bones unit or Eee Box and just 
> tossing on SAMBA and Apache to get both some networked drive space and a 
> local web server to play with. Has anyone here worked with the Wind or Eee 
> Box? Both look like they could reasonably be placed in a living room without 
> attracting too much attention (handy since that's where the cable modem and 
> router are located).

My argument against the netbooks for this purpose is that they aren't
built for continuous on functionality and I suspect that they won't
last.

The Apple mini makes a nice quiet device for this purpose but I myself
would never do that but it depends upon how much learning/effort you are
willing to put yourself through.

There are mini boxes, convection cooled (no noisy fans) like the Apple
mini that you can buy, network and roll your own (i.e. put Ubuntu or
CentOS on it). Then you can have a web server, etc. In fact, with the
new version of iTunes, I can use my Fedora mt-daapd server (finally) and
serve music to any iTunes or Rhythmbox or Songbird.

Craig


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Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues

[Bryan O'Neal]

To be honest I am not sure how to do this on BSD either. However  some quick
Googleing found something for you to try.
arp -d 216.9.190.124 (to "drop" the entry, then ping to reestablish)
or
arp -s 216.9.190.124 MA:Cx:xx::xx:xx ( where the second argument is the mac
address of the device in question. This should force the entry to the
correct mac address)

Or you could try this script that should clear all of your arp cache.

*arp -an | awk '{print $2}' | sed s/"("// | sed s/")"// | xargs -n 1 arp -d
*



On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:

> please excuse my ignorance, but how do you do that? Is it forced every
> reboot? I have rebooted several times.
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Bryan O'Neal 
> wrote:
>
>>  I have not used BSD in a while, so I may be speaking out of turn here,
>> but have you tried clearing the arp cache forcing it to create a new entry
>> to look up?
>>
>>  --
>> *From:* plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:
>> plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] *On Behalf Of *Eric Cope
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 02, 2009 1:51 PM
>> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
>> *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD OpenVPN and SMB Connection Issues
>>
>> Anyone have any ideas?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> I am running a FreeBSD 7 server at home. I recently filled up the /usr
>>> partition. I cleaned it out, but now I can't connect with my OpenVPN client
>>> nor via Samba. I can connect via SSH. The logs look normal, other than these
>>> lines in debug.log
>>>
>>> ...
>>> Mar 26 23:50:58 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>>> not on local network
>>> Apr  1 21:48:09 e-server kernel: arplookup 216.9.190.124 failed: host is
>>> not on local network
>>>
>>> followed by "this message repeated xxx times" several times.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
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>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>
>
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Fwd: UG News: Discount for O'Reilly Open Source Convention (OSCON)

[Alan Dayley]

Great discount for OSCON!

Alan

-- Forwarded message --
From: Marsee Henon 
Date: Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Subject: UG News: Discount for O'Reilly Open Source Convention (OSCON)
To: ala...@consultpros.com

Hi--

OSCON Registration is open. Here's a discount you can pass along to your
members through your mailing list or at your meetings:

The 2009 O'Reilly Open Source Convention Moves to San Jose, CA--
Registration Now Open, So Make Your Plans.

In trying times such as these, saving money becomes a bigger priority
for everyone. While challenging, the current global situation provides
the open source community with the opportunity to sustain, apply, and
expand open source to change the world.

Use code "os09usrg" when you register, and receive 20% off
the registration price. Early registration ends on June 2.

To register for the conference, go to:


OSCON 2009
July 20-24, 2009
San Jose McEnery Convention Center
150 West San Carlos St.
San Jose, CA 95113

Follow OSCON on your favorite social networking site:

Facebook


Twitter (or look for #OSCON)


Identi.ca


LinkedIn



Hope to see you there,


Marsee


Marsee Henon
User Group Manager
O'Reilly
1005 Gravenstein Highway North
Sebastopol, CA   95472
800-998-9938, 707-827-7103
mar...@oreilly.com
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You are receiving this email because you are a User Group
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send an email to mar...@oreilly.com

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Re: Cheap NAS or MSI Wind/Eee Box?

[Alan Dayley]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:46 PM,   wrote:
> I have been debating recently whether to pick up a cheapish networked 
> external hard drive like a Western Digital My Book (that one initially 
> because it can be picked up locally, although initially googling suggests it 
> might not be very Linux friendly). Anyone

We have a 1TB My Book that works just fine on Linux.  Purchased it a
few months ago.  I partitioned it half ext3, half FAT32 so we can use
it easily for different things.  (For example, copying files from ext3
to FAT32 causes permission settings to be lost so I want the ext3 on
the external drive too.)

Hate the name, "My Book" but it is working well for us so far.

Alan
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Re: Cheap NAS or MSI Wind/Eee Box?

[Steven]

Alan Dayley wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:46 PM,   wrote:
>   
>> I have been debating recently whether to pick up a cheapish networked 
>> external hard drive like a Western Digital My Book (that one initially 
>> because it can be picked up locally, although initially googling suggests it 
>> might not be very Linux friendly). Anyone
>> 
>
> We have a 1TB My Book that works just fine on Linux.  Purchased it a
> few months ago.  I partitioned it half ext3, half FAT32 so we can use
> it easily for different things.  (For example, copying files from ext3
> to FAT32 causes permission settings to be lost so I want the ext3 on
> the external drive too.)
>
> Hate the name, "My Book" but it is working well for us so far.
>
> Alan
>   
Ah! Good to hear someone having success. Did you do the initial setup 
from Windows? Is that necessary? I think the main concern I had after 
the initial googling for reviews was that when I grabbed a copy of the 
manual off the WD web site it implied that the setup needed to be done 
from either a Windows or Mac machine. My sisters computer is for a 
number of reasons running Win2k which isn't on the compatibility list. 
And I so rarely boot this laptop in XP that I occasionally half forget 
it's even installed. The desktop machine only has XP on it, but I use it 
so rarely that I haven't yet bothered to get it on the network.

There was mention in the manual of a web interface, but instead of 
giving an address to put in your browser it said how to access it by way 
of the software package you were expected to install.

One thing I don't remember seeing touched on in any reviews, does it run 
hot or have much fan noise?


Steven
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Re: Cheap NAS or MSI Wind/Eee Box?

[Alan Dayley]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Steven  wrote:
> Ah! Good to hear someone having success. Did you do the initial setup
> from Windows? Is that necessary? I think the main concern I had after
> the initial googling for reviews was that when I grabbed a copy of the
> manual off the WD web site it implied that the setup needed to be done
> from either a Windows or Mac machine. My sisters computer is for a
> number of reasons running Win2k which isn't on the compatibility list.
> And I so rarely boot this laptop in XP that I occasionally half forget
> it's even installed. The desktop machine only has XP on it, but I use it
> so rarely that I haven't yet bothered to get it on the network.
>
> There was mention in the manual of a web interface, but instead of
> giving an address to put in your browser it said how to access it by way
> of the software package you were expected to install.
>
> One thing I don't remember seeing touched on in any reviews, does it run
> hot or have much fan noise?

Steven,

Sorry for the confusion.  My "My Book" (See, terrible product name!)
is not networked.  It's USB.

I don't understand why special software would be needed for a
networked storage device.  That's lame.

Alan
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RE: router opinions wanted

[Lisa Kachold]

If you are going to be under siege, you can run a Linux firewall box with 3 
interfaces directly from your cable box, we are doing a presentation/lab at 
HackFest the 2nd Saturday (next weekend) at UAT.edu.

It will give you vpn, pptp, whatever you want?  

And you can populate it with 1000G network interfaces.

You can purchase the box and the cards for about $150.

Course, if you don't think you will be terribly under seige, like a security 
professional or woman might be, you can get a WRT54 and put openwrt on it.  But 
this is not for the slight - it's a wee small linux box all command line.

At least the FOSS Firewall box iso's configured as secure as say any Coyote 
Point, or Juniper Os firewall, have easy peasy little configuration wizards 
that are not too difficult to understand.

Do the math?  Return on investment.  Do you want a small arm processor with 
8/32GB, and 10/100 interfaces that, when hit with a distributed nmap attack 
(spoofed to originate from China) will fall over and let $badpeople either do 
remote management, auth access, or remote firmware update so that the 
machine never works right, you get rats in all your walls on all your boxes, 
when you can build and protect with a Pentium class system with an enterprise 
open source firewall?

It's just a DHCP that is passed off from the cable company, and another clue, 
you don't have to get a "cable" modem and a "router" - products exist that do 
both - including a linux box - but that's for the advanced class.

Obnosis | (503)754-4452




PLUG Linux Security Labs 2nd Saturday Each mo...@noon - 3PM

Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:19:01 -0700
Subject: Re: router opinions wanted
From: unixprgrm...@gmail.com
To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us

ck out Netgear I've had good luck with them...

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Robert Holtzman  wrote:

Total noob wrt networks. I'm about to dive into setting up a home LAN

and could use some opinions/advise/warnings/ideas about routers. Not

sure yet whether the LAN will be wireless or not.



Any routers to look for? Any to avoid?



Is it possible to disable a wireless router's transmitter and use it

with cable? I thought I might like to try it as hard wired but

retain the capability of going wireless later. I've run a lot of

searches on this question and haven't seen anything.



--

Bob Holtzman

"If you think you're getting free lunch,

  check the price of the beer"

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Lynn P. Tilby
Ph: 480 632-8635
unixprgrm...@gmail.com


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