Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
Yha, I will believe a $35 tablet with a 1GHz proc and 2GB of ram when it is in my hand. Until then it is so much vaperwere. That said - I would buy one :) On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:25 AM, wrote: > > How much is computer hardware *really* worth? > > This week, India announced a new $35 tablet PC > > How low do you think computer prices will eventually go? > > And how long do you think new PC hardware will sustain $500 and higher > price points (due to the built-in M$ tax of $100 to $500 per unit)? > > Is it not inevitable that the actual/true value of PC hardware and > complete computers will continue to shrink ... and radically? Consider the > ubiquitous electronic calculator at the now typical full retail price of > about $1.00. > > And now that Linux is taking over an ever greater share of all > computer-powered devices ... how much longer do you think antitrust M$ > will be able to get away with holding baseball bats over the heads > computer manufacturers and retailers? > > > CONSIDER ... a few excerpts from the India announcement: > > Kapil Sibal, India's Minister for Human Resource Development unveiled a > prototype touch-screen tablet PC that has been in development for five > years. > > The initial target price is ... $35 US. > > This new tablet PC is part of India's push to provide high-quality > education to all of its students. It also has a solar power option. > > Of course, it is a Linux-based computer with web browser, multimedia > player, PDF reader, Wi-Fi, video conferencing ability, 2GB RAM, memory > card, USB ports, and expected to be available next year. > > Students from the Indian Institute of Technology co-designed motherboards > for it. They say the eventual price could be $20 or even as low as $10. > > See a photo and read the original article here: > > - - - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20011536-1.html - - - > > > YES! ... Linux powered computers will rule the computer world ;) > > It is inevitable. It is just basic economics. > > $10.00 computers with a $100-500 M$ tax added (and for an inferior, > inefficient, bloatware, permanently virus, worm, and spyware infected > system) just won't fly. > > The eventual victory is in sight ;) > > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
Sounds great... BUT: Until linux becomes MUCH more plug & play, the "average" consumer will balk. I am no fan of M$, make no mistake. However, I have, of late been contemplating moving to Win7. Actually BOUGHT the Win7PRO and have installed it on another boot drive.It is EASY, It is MUCH more compatible with stuff on the shelves. I know, I know, Linux does what they do for free, faster, more secure, Blah blah blah...Bottom line is ease of use, and THAT it isn't, at least for power users yet? We shall see. I personally hope it succeeds. I also personally hope something radical and new replaces it too. :-) On 07/27/2010 09:25 AM, j...@actionline.com wrote: How much is computer hardware *really* worth? This week, India announced a new $35 tablet PC How low do you think computer prices will eventually go? And how long do you think new PC hardware will sustain $500 and higher price points (due to the built-in M$ tax of $100 to $500 per unit)? Is it not inevitable that the actual/true value of PC hardware and complete computers will continue to shrink ... and radically? Consider the ubiquitous electronic calculator at the now typical full retail price of about $1.00. And now that Linux is taking over an ever greater share of all computer-powered devices ... how much longer do you think antitrust M$ will be able to get away with holding baseball bats over the heads computer manufacturers and retailers? CONSIDER ... a few excerpts from the India announcement: Kapil Sibal, India's Minister for Human Resource Development unveiled a prototype touch-screen tablet PC that has been in development for five years. The initial target price is ... $35 US. This new tablet PC is part of India's push to provide high-quality education to all of its students. It also has a solar power option. Of course, it is a Linux-based computer with web browser, multimedia player, PDF reader, Wi-Fi, video conferencing ability, 2GB RAM, memory card, USB ports, and expected to be available next year. Students from the Indian Institute of Technology co-designed motherboards for it. They say the eventual price could be $20 or even as low as $10. See a photo and read the original article here: - - - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20011536-1.html - - - YES! ... Linux powered computers will rule the computer world ;) It is inevitable. It is just basic economics. $10.00 computers with a $100-500 M$ tax added (and for an inferior, inefficient, bloatware, permanently virus, worm, and spyware infected system) just won't fly. The eventual victory is in sight ;) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
For me MS is going to be part of the world for a long time, even if the company self destructs next year. And a Large portion of software will work only on MS, if I want to use any of this software I will have a compatible platform. I would love to have the core API's used open sourced and see wine get the funding to work with it. But that's unlikely. -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Wayne Davis Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:05 AM To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers. Sounds great... BUT: Until linux becomes MUCH more plug & play, the "average" consumer will balk. I am no fan of M$, make no mistake. However, I have, of late been contemplating moving to Win7. Actually BOUGHT the Win7PRO and have installed it on another boot drive.It is EASY, It is MUCH more compatible with stuff on the shelves. I know, I know, Linux does what they do for free, faster, more secure, Blah blah blah...Bottom line is ease of use, and THAT it isn't, at least for power users yet? We shall see. I personally hope it succeeds. I also personally hope something radical and new replaces it too. :-) On 07/27/2010 09:25 AM, j...@actionline.com wrote: > How much is computer hardware *really* worth? > > This week, India announced a new $35 tablet PC > > How low do you think computer prices will eventually go? > > And how long do you think new PC hardware will sustain $500 and higher > price points (due to the built-in M$ tax of $100 to $500 per unit)? > > Is it not inevitable that the actual/true value of PC hardware and > complete computers will continue to shrink ... and radically? Consider the > ubiquitous electronic calculator at the now typical full retail price of > about $1.00. > > And now that Linux is taking over an ever greater share of all > computer-powered devices ... how much longer do you think antitrust M$ > will be able to get away with holding baseball bats over the heads > computer manufacturers and retailers? > > > CONSIDER ... a few excerpts from the India announcement: > > Kapil Sibal, India's Minister for Human Resource Development unveiled a > prototype touch-screen tablet PC that has been in development for five > years. > > The initial target price is ... $35 US. > > This new tablet PC is part of India's push to provide high-quality > education to all of its students. It also has a solar power option. > > Of course, it is a Linux-based computer with web browser, multimedia > player, PDF reader, Wi-Fi, video conferencing ability, 2GB RAM, memory > card, USB ports, and expected to be available next year. > > Students from the Indian Institute of Technology co-designed motherboards > for it. They say the eventual price could be $20 or even as low as $10. > > See a photo and read the original article here: > > - - - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20011536-1.html - - - > > > YES! ... Linux powered computers will rule the computer world ;) > > It is inevitable. It is just basic economics. > > $10.00 computers with a $100-500 M$ tax added (and for an inferior, > inefficient, bloatware, permanently virus, worm, and spyware infected > system) just won't fly. > > The eventual victory is in sight ;) > > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Wayne Davis > Until linux becomes MUCH more plug & play, the > "average" consumer will balk. I used to often have the whole "not ready for primetime" and "for the power user" discussion with an old co-worker and the conclusion we both came to is that Linux will never be accepted until it *IS* Windows. In the last couple of incarnations of my choice of distribution, every piece of random hardware I've plugged in has been plug and play. Printers, cards, scanners, webcams, joysticks, and all sorts of USB devices. After an easy install, it was instantly online. It all just works. For the software, there was indeed a learning curve, but that happened with my Commodore Pet, TRS-80 Model I and every computer since then. My now 70 year old parents who are completely computer illiterate use it daily for email, browsing, skype and webcam. For the Windows "Power User," it's probably a good idea to stick with Windows, but for almost everyone else, I think Linux is ready for 90% of modern computer users. Daniel -- | --- | Daniel P. Stasinski | http://www.saidsimple.com | dan...@avenues.org | http://www.disabilities-r-us.com | XMMP: m...@avenues.org | http://www.avenues.org | Google Talk: mooo | http://www.scriptkitties.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
$35? Is that wholesale or retail? On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Daniel Stasinski wrote: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Wayne Davis > > Until linux becomes MUCH more plug & play, the > > "average" consumer will balk. > > I used to often have the whole "not ready for primetime" and "for the > power user" discussion with an old co-worker and the conclusion we > both came to is that Linux will never be accepted until it *IS* > Windows. > > In the last couple of incarnations of my choice of distribution, every > piece of random hardware I've plugged in has been plug and play. > Printers, cards, scanners, webcams, joysticks, and all sorts of USB > devices. After an easy install, it was instantly online. It all just > works. For the software, there was indeed a learning curve, but that > happened with my Commodore Pet, TRS-80 Model I and every computer > since then. My now 70 year old parents who are completely computer > illiterate use it daily for email, browsing, skype and webcam. > > For the Windows "Power User," it's probably a good idea to stick with > Windows, but for almost everyone else, I think Linux is ready for 90% > of modern computer users. > > Daniel > > -- > | --- > | Daniel P. Stasinski | http://www.saidsimple.com > | dan...@avenues.org | http://www.disabilities-r-us.com > | XMMP: m...@avenues.org | http://www.avenues.org > | Google Talk: mooo| http://www.scriptkitties.com > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Stephen Partington wrote: For me MS is going to be part of the world for a long time, even if the company self destructs next year. And a Large portion of software will work only on MS, if I want to use any of this software I will have a compatible platform. I am truly interested. Putting to one side use cases of recreational computing [dedicated game platforms, whether Wii, X-Box, etc have protocol format blockers as well as as other 'proprietary' stickiness to try to lock a person to a given platform, and frankly, better 'pedal to the metal' performance], and putting aside applications which need to manipulate a intentionally properietary data API (DRM'd, patent wall, or public key protected content), what applications are you using that 'require' a non FOSS platorm? Stated differently: What do you need to do to earn a living, that FOSS cannot do? I would love to have the core API's used open sourced and see wine get the funding to work with it. But that's unlikely. Patent protected codecs, and per seat licensed DRM wrapped 'trade secret' implementations become available that way ... Wine provides operability at the 'use a binary intended a foreign OS' environment level, sort of like a sparrow wearing scuba gear to go after a meal of grubs in a creekbed. If a person is willing accept moving around on crutches, that is a future, I guess, but is it worth committing to using adaptive devices, or to find or participate in building the FOSS alternative? -- Russ herrold --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
From: Daniel Stasinski > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Wayne Davis >> Until linux becomes MUCH more plug & play, the >> "average" consumer will balk. > the conclusion we both came to is that Linux will never be accepted > until it *IS* Windows. Pretty much. Most people tend to learn one way of doing things, then blindly follow that way and never question it or think of how it could be improved. They they freak out when something they don't expect happens. > In the last couple of incarnations of my choice of distribution, every > piece of random hardware I've plugged in has been plug and play. That's pretty good, actually. I usually find that there's something (a piece of really new hardware, usually) that just doesn't work, and I either have to fool around with it or upgrade the kernel. > For the Windows "Power User," it's probably a good idea to stick with > Windows, but for almost everyone else, I think Linux is ready for 90% > of modern computer users. When I was in tech support, the people who described themselves as "power users" were almost always completely clueless about far too many things. Is Linux ready for 90% of users? Not sure. I'd say it's definitely there for web/mail/office tasks, and probably there for watching movies. Games... not so much. There are a ton of gamers out there who MUST HAVE StarCrack II, and as long as stuff like that is on Windows and not Linux, there will be a huge installed base of Windows boxes. -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
> Is Linux ready for 90% of users? Not sure. I'd say it's definitely > there for web/mail/office tasks, and probably movies ... > > Games... not so much. There are a ton of gamers out there who > MUST HAVE StarCrack II and as long as stuff like that is on Windows > and not Linux, there will be a huge installed base of Windows boxes. Can't resist ... I think this is exactly right. M$'s future is in high-priced toys and fooling around playing games ... and not so much in the practical and pragmatic use of computers to do something useful. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
On Jul 27, 2010, at 3:02 PM, Matt Graham wrote: From: Daniel Stasinski On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Wayne Davis Until linux becomes MUCH more plug & play, the "average" consumer will balk. the conclusion we both came to is that Linux will never be accepted until it *IS* Windows. Pretty much. Most people tend to learn one way of doing things, then blindly follow that way and never question it or think of how it could be improved. They they freak out when something they don't expect happens. I'll take a bit of issue with this characterization. While I agree with the core of what you're saying, I don't agree with the value judgement implied by phrases like 'blindly follow'. I think there are two important factors: * For the most part people *don't care* what OS their computer runs. They don't want to know what an 'OS' is. They want to do other stuff like email, web, chat, spreadsheets, etc. * Again, for the most part, people want the stuff they don't care about to be familiar and not change much. The less attention it demands, the better. So, I think the assessment that "Linux's chief failing is that it is not Windows" is entirely correct. Now here's where I think maybe we differ: I think this is entirely reasonable. We all have limited amounts of time and attention, and it's impossible to care about everything. We all have to make decisions about what we're going to pay attention to, and what's going to fade into the background. For me, computing is definitely in the foreground. But my car isn't. Gearhead friends are amazed I really don't care how much torque my car has or whatever. I don't care about going fast. I don't care about making noise. I don't care about having lots of chrome and stuff. I just want to drive around, and the less I need to pay attention to the car, the better. The people who are using Windows by default are, I strongly suspect, passionate about *something*. It's just not computers. I think it's a mistake to approach this as a personal failing on their part. alex --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
The line I found the most interesting was "provide high-quality education to all of its students". I think the M$ tax is more like $40 for a Dell class computer. In 1997 when I bought my first CD that contained RH ?4.7? ?5.2? Not sure what version. I bet it fit into 100M or less. Today? Everything is bloatware. I tend to find both XP and Linux have their best applications. In 2000 I went 8 months running Linux only. Then in 2007 I tried again. Did not like IE in wine and did not like the editors for writing PHP. I run both XP - desktop, and Linux for my dev box. This is the optimum solution for me. Keith Smith --- On Tue, 7/27/10, j...@actionline.com wrote: From: j...@actionline.com Subject: The inevitable eventual cost of computers. To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 9:25 AM How much is computer hardware *really* worth? This week, India announced a new $35 tablet PC How low do you think computer prices will eventually go? And how long do you think new PC hardware will sustain $500 and higher price points (due to the built-in M$ tax of $100 to $500 per unit)? Is it not inevitable that the actual/true value of PC hardware and complete computers will continue to shrink ... and radically? Consider the ubiquitous electronic calculator at the now typical full retail price of about $1.00. And now that Linux is taking over an ever greater share of all computer-powered devices ... how much longer do you think antitrust M$ will be able to get away with holding baseball bats over the heads computer manufacturers and retailers? CONSIDER ... a few excerpts from the India announcement: Kapil Sibal, India's Minister for Human Resource Development unveiled a prototype touch-screen tablet PC that has been in development for five years. The initial target price is ... $35 US. This new tablet PC is part of India's push to provide high-quality education to all of its students. It also has a solar power option. Of course, it is a Linux-based computer with web browser, multimedia player, PDF reader, Wi-Fi, video conferencing ability, 2GB RAM, memory card, USB ports, and expected to be available next year. Students from the Indian Institute of Technology co-designed motherboards for it. They say the eventual price could be $20 or even as low as $10. See a photo and read the original article here: - - - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20011536-1.html - - - YES! ... Linux powered computers will rule the computer world ;) It is inevitable. It is just basic economics. $10.00 computers with a $100-500 M$ tax added (and for an inferior, inefficient, bloatware, permanently virus, worm, and spyware infected system) just won't fly. The eventual victory is in sight ;) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
j...@actionline.com wrote: Is Linux ready for 90% of users? Not sure. I'd say it's definitely there for web/mail/office tasks, and probably movies ... Games... not so much. There are a ton of gamers out there who MUST HAVE StarCrack II and as long as stuff like that is on Windows and not Linux, there will be a huge installed base of Windows boxes. Can't resist ... I think this is exactly right. M$'s future is in high-priced toys and fooling around playing games ... and not so much in the practical and pragmatic use of computers to do something useful. Don't cut gamers short. They're largely responsible for the development of the high quality graphics we enjoy today. Without them, I expect we'd still be a lot closer to (stuck with?) VGA. -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: The inevitable eventual cost of computers.
I personally disagree for something like this. Most people will never try to install anything on this tablet other then what is in the repository. Look at the iPad. In addition the vast majority of people will never, ever, touch the hardware, including USB components. Most people treat computers like cars. They drive them to familiar places via familiar roots and if something (Anything) goes wrong they take it to a mechanic. That is what the vast majority of people do. And Linux is better then windows was ten years ago and yet they managed to spread deep into the aver person's home then. On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Wayne Davis wrote: > Sounds great... BUT: > > Until linux becomes MUCH more plug & play, the "average" consumer will balk. > I am no fan of M$, make no mistake. However, I have, of late been > contemplating moving to Win7. Actually BOUGHT the Win7PRO and have > installed it on another boot drive. It is EASY, It is MUCH more > compatible with stuff on the shelves. I know, I know, Linux does what they > do for free, faster, more secure, Blah blah blah... Bottom line is ease > of use, and THAT it isn't, at least for power users yet? We shall see. > I personally hope it succeeds. I also personally hope something radical > and new replaces it too. :-) > > > > On 07/27/2010 09:25 AM, j...@actionline.com wrote: >> >> How much is computer hardware *really* worth? >> >> This week, India announced a new $35 tablet PC >> >> How low do you think computer prices will eventually go? >> >> And how long do you think new PC hardware will sustain $500 and higher >> price points (due to the built-in M$ tax of $100 to $500 per unit)? >> >> Is it not inevitable that the actual/true value of PC hardware and >> complete computers will continue to shrink ... and radically? Consider the >> ubiquitous electronic calculator at the now typical full retail price of >> about $1.00. >> >> And now that Linux is taking over an ever greater share of all >> computer-powered devices ... how much longer do you think antitrust M$ >> will be able to get away with holding baseball bats over the heads >> computer manufacturers and retailers? >> >> >> CONSIDER ... a few excerpts from the India announcement: >> >> Kapil Sibal, India's Minister for Human Resource Development unveiled a >> prototype touch-screen tablet PC that has been in development for five >> years. >> >> The initial target price is ... $35 US. >> >> This new tablet PC is part of India's push to provide high-quality >> education to all of its students. It also has a solar power option. >> >> Of course, it is a Linux-based computer with web browser, multimedia >> player, PDF reader, Wi-Fi, video conferencing ability, 2GB RAM, memory >> card, USB ports, and expected to be available next year. >> >> Students from the Indian Institute of Technology co-designed motherboards >> for it. They say the eventual price could be $20 or even as low as $10. >> >> See a photo and read the original article here: >> >> - - - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20011536-1.html - - - >> >> >> YES! ... Linux powered computers will rule the computer world ;) >> >> It is inevitable. It is just basic economics. >> >> $10.00 computers with a $100-500 M$ tax added (and for an inferior, >> inefficient, bloatware, permanently virus, worm, and spyware infected >> system) just won't fly. >> >> The eventual victory is in sight ;) >> >> >> >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
