Re: [pollen] Pollen Footnotes

[Jens Axel Søgaard]

2018-01-26 0:16 GMT+01:00 Joel Dueck :

> Jens —
>   I assume you mean that when you go to https://thenotepad.org/posts/
> pollen-footnotes-approach.html and
>
  print that page in your browser, the footnotes run in with the text,
> correct?
>

Yes.


> Two things to note:
> 1.  The technique I discuss in that article is one that I'll be using on a
> *different* site—it is not the technique I actually use on that page.
>
(I wondered/worried if that would be confusing as I was writing it.)
>

I jumped to conclusions :-)


>   1a. The footnotes *on* the page (the sidenote-style ones) don't print
> well via the browser, and that's actually another point against them that I
> didn't mention.
>   1b. The footnotes made *with the technique discussed in* the page
> should print just fine.
>

My problem is that I know how to generate HTML, but I am inexperienced in
writing CSS.
I have problems getting my side notes to show correctly when printed - so I
was sort of hoping
you had some CSS I could steal :-)

Right now pages with side notes become too wide when printed. The text does
get the correct
width. The wide page has the side effect of tricking Chrome to scale SVGs
*way* too large
though - so I'll need to fix the problem somehow. (I want my side notes to
appear as side notes
also in the printed version).

Your discussion on what features you want from footnotes / side notes is
very nice,
and I think I'll change this-and-that in how I handle side notes.

/Jens Axel

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Re: [pollen] Pollen Footnotes

[Joel Dueck]

Jens — 
  I assume you mean that when you go to 
https://thenotepad.org/posts/pollen-footnotes-approach.html and print that 
page in your browser, the footnotes run in with the text, correct?

Two things to note:
1.  The technique I discuss in that article is one that I'll be using on a 
*different* site—it is not the technique I actually use on that page. (I 
wondered/worried if that would be confusing as I was writing it.) 
  1a. The footnotes *on* the page (the sidenote-style ones) don't print 
well via the browser, and that's actually another point against them that I 
didn't mention.
  1b. The footnotes made *with the technique discussed in* the page should 
print just fine.

2.  If you wish to print out that page, I advise you to use the PDF link 
(shown just under the title).

Hopefully that makes sense!

On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 3:46:50 PM UTC-6, Jens Axel Søgaard wrote:
>
> Thanks for writing your thoughts on foot/side notes! Great inspiration.
>
> Is there a way to make the notes look pretty even when you print the page?
>
> I tried use "Print..." in Chrome, and it is hard to tell where the notes 
> end.
>
> /Jens Axel
>
>
> 2018-01-23 1:38 GMT+01:00 Joel Dueck :
>
>> We’re getting heavy snow all day today here in Minneapolis, so I took the 
>> day off. I spent some of the down time writing up my approach for 
>> implementing footnotes in an upcoming project: 
>> https://thenotepad.org/posts/pollen-footnotes-approach.html
>>
>> Hopefully it can be of use to someone! If there’s anything I can correct 
>> or clear up, let me know.
>>
>> -- 
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> -- 
> Jens Axel Søgaard
>
>

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Re: [pollen] Pollen Footnotes

[Jens Axel Søgaard]

Thanks for writing your thoughts on foot/side notes! Great inspiration.

Is there a way to make the notes look pretty even when you print the page?

I tried use "Print..." in Chrome, and it is hard to tell where the notes
end.

/Jens Axel


2018-01-23 1:38 GMT+01:00 Joel Dueck :

> We’re getting heavy snow all day today here in Minneapolis, so I took the
> day off. I spent some of the down time writing up my approach for
> implementing footnotes in an upcoming project: https://thenotepad.
> org/posts/pollen-footnotes-approach.html
>
> Hopefully it can be of use to someone! If there’s anything I can correct
> or clear up, let me know.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Pollen" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to pollenpub+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



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Jens Axel Søgaard

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Re: [pollen] Pollen Footnotes

[Joel Dueck]

>
> > (+ 1 (index-of (remove-duplicates (reverse fn-names)) name))
>
> FWIW this is the same as `(length (member name fn-names))` if you avoid 
> putting duplicates in `fn-names` to begin with. `member` returns the tail 
> of the list beginning with the matching item. So in this case, [the tail 
> would comprise a list of the footnote names from the target name to the 
> first name collected (because the list is being accumulated in reverse). ]
>
>
OK I understand what you were doing there now. I was a bit confused at the 
behavior of `member`, although now I see how it could come in handy.

However, I did have to include duplicates (I removed the `if` from `set! 
fn-names`) because that’s what allows you to include the right number of 
back-links at the end of each footnote. And the list has to be reversed 
anyways before duplicates are removed otherwise it will number them 
according to the last occurence instead of the first.


> I apologize if I exploded part of your blog post. Occasional unfortunate 
> side effect of being a curious character. May we be united in the quest for 
> knowledge ;)
>

Hear hear! No, one of my original reasons for starting the notepad was to 
have a place for “techie fish-wrap.” If I ever publish a “Pollen Cookbook” 
[1] hopefully the stuff I put in there will be a little more 
explosion-proof for having been examined like this.

[1]: 
https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Basic-Cookbook-Tracton-Ken-RADIO-SHACK/4257303723/bd

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Re: [pollen] Pollen Footnotes

[Matthew Butterick]

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 8:30 PM, Matthew Butterick  wrote:
> 
> FWIW this is the same as `(length (member name fn-names))` if you avoid 
> putting duplicates in `fn-names` to begin with. `member` returns the tail of 
> the list beginning with the matching item. So in this case, you'd get a list 
> of the footnote refs from the target name to the beginning (because the list 
> is being accumulated in reverse)



PS That last sentence was poorly phrased.

So in this case, the tail would comprise a list of the footnote names from the 
target name to the first name collected (because the list is being accumulated 
in reverse). 

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Re: [pollen] Pollen Footnotes

[Joel Dueck]

Wow! I suspected there was a more elegant/functional/concise approach that 
what I’d come up with, but yowsers. I have a lot to learn. (Don’t get me 
wrong, this is helpful and much appreciated.) 

> I was drawn to your comment in the article:
> 
*> "The output for footnotes (given my requirements) can’t very well be 
handled within individual tag functions; it demands a top-down approach."*
> 
> I was curious why this was necessarily so. 

Well, since you ask, I’ve had to think about it. In hindsight, this was a 
notion I started with and never fully examined. 

I started with it for two (similarly unexamined) reasons. The main one was, 
it was never clear to me that Pollen gave me any guarantees about the order 
in which tag functions would be called. Normally, when every tag function 
is its own cocoon growing its own butterfly, it doesn’t matter, but in a 
case like this when I needed to things to happen in a certain order I 
assumed top-down was the natural approach. By the way, I also had the same 
basic question about decode, i.e., in what order it would apply 
#:txexpr-proc. Was it innermost-out, left-to-right, etc? So I did some 
tests to be sure. I found that, conveniently, the #:txexpr-proc will match 
the ◊fn tags in the same order a left-to-right reader would encounter them 
in the text, regardless of nesting. If I had given it more thought, I might 
have figured out that Pollen does the same with the entire doc.

The second reason was, I assumed my requirement to apply some 
deterministic+unique prefix (the MD5 hash) to the relative URLs dictated 
that footnote processing needed to start from some place with enough 
visibility over the doc to determine that prefix from the outset. But now I 
see that I could just as well have let the tag functions do most of the 
work and just put the prefixes in afterwards.

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