Re: Covers and a defense of irony (long)
Grow up, Lance, please. You cakehole. Anyway, around here they say "piehole". Joe Gracey I used to say "piehole" until my girlfriend said thought "cakehole" was funnier. So, "cakehole" it was. And between the 700 of us, I think "wordhole" is my favorite. Lance . . .
RE: Covers and a defense of irony (long)
New Yorkers may be seething with suppressed rage, but they're still friendly, or at least talkative. New Yorker, giving artificial respiration; bent at the waist, hands cupped around mouth, shouting down at the needy one - "GET UP! BEFORE YOU DIE! Phil Esposito
Re: Covers and a defense of irony (long)
It's sorta like the Ramones taking a very bad novelty record like "Surfin' Bird" and turning it a pretty great rock n roll song. Will Miner I'm not sure what the story is with the Ramones covering this song, but I'd be willing to bet dollars to cakeholes that it was a self-conscious homage. I think "Surfin' Bird" is one of the great one-hit wonder songs in rock 'n' roll (although, I have to admit, it does get old quick). I believe, though, that bands like The Ramones--especially The Ramones, in fact--owe their existence to songs like this. The idea of a three-chord--at most--rock 'n' roll song providing a template for an entire career was virtually destroyed by bands like The Beatles, who went from these same three-chord songs into worlds of far-out musical experimentation and sophistication. Every band, it seemed, had to do their "psychedelic" album, their "concept" album, and so forth. Well, The Ramones--Joey, in particular--never forget how good it felt to hear simple songs like "She Loves You" on the Sullivan show. And if they took anything from the Beatles conceptually, I guess it would be the idea that four leather-clad "brothers" playing as if The Beatles stopped recording after "A Hard Day's Night" was it. Thus, songs like "She Loves You"--via The Ramones--would, inadvertently it seems, end up providing punk with an important part of its structural and musical foundation. So, that The Ramones would cover "Surfin' Bird"--in this light--seems to make perfect historical sense. And even had it been ironic, let me utter a few words in defense of irony. It would seem that "being ironic" is not something to aspire to, but I believe that the context is vital. Irony--for me anyway--is sort of like marijuana. You might wanna dip into the bag every now and then, but a lifestyle based on it is silly and boring. So, the Mats covering a KISS song can definitely be seen as a socially-connecting device (No way, dude, I bought this KISS album in the fifth grade. WOO-HOO!), but a entire album of KISS songs would be (urge) overkill. This also seems to be the difference between aberrations like the "Cocktail Nation" (Boy, that didn't get old fast, did it?) and the Swing revival, and bands who happen to find genuine, artistically-satisfying inspiration in the Louis Prima/Keely Smith/Sam Butera records. It also seems to be the difference in bands that wrap themselves in the ND-alt.country.com flag, and bands that just happen to find inspiration in Neil Young, UT, and Creedence. Unfortunately, there is no convenient device for discerning between the posers and those who, we might feel, have their hearts in the right place. Add to this, the possiblity that shitty bands can find genuine inspiration in songs we love, and bands we love finding genuine inspiration in irony. Confusing, isn't it. Anyway, I got through this whole post without using the word fuck. Maybe I am growing up. : ) Lance . . .
Re: Covers and a defense of irony (long)
On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, lance davis wrote: Irony--for me anyway--is sort of like marijuana. You might wanna dip into the bag every now and then, but a lifestyle based on it is silly and boring. This, my friends, is the quote of the decade. And it's part of a great post as well- way to go, man... Tom np: my heart, beating rather loudly in my eardrums as the Surge *really* begins to kick in...
Re: Covers and a defense of irony (long)
Garden variety covers aside, *startling* covers provide wonderful thread fodder because they are so damn rich in ambiguity. Intended or not, they are a test...the question is...which test? Ironic covers: the hipness test I know that you know that I know you know I know that...(nudge, nudge, wink, wink) Non-ironic covers: the zen test I can cast off my cultural baggage and accept the beauty that underlies that which others disdane Quasi-ironic covers: the Miles Davis test I can take a sow's ear (removed from a pig about whom I feel largely indifferent) and turn it into a silk purse through the sheer force of my musical prowess Answers may vary and the decisions of the judges are final. Which "tests" are artistically valid? Hmm, let's see now... Anon...TG
Re: Covers and a defense of irony (long)
Anyway, I got through this whole post without using the word fuck. Maybe I am growing up. : ) Lance . . . Grow up, Lance, please. You cakehole. Anyway, around here they say "piehole". -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
RE: Covers and a defense of irony (long)
Shut yr goddamn mouths all of ya. Sorry - just practicing for my trip to New York later in the year. Junior "Can you tell me the way to Staten Island or should I just go fuck myself now?" Walker -Original Message- From: Joe Gracey [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 4 March 1999 12:51 To: passenger side Subject: Re: Covers and a defense of irony (long) Anyway, I got through this whole post without using the word fuck. Maybe I am growing up. : ) Lance . . . Grow up, Lance, please. You cakehole. Anyway, around here they say "piehole". -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
RE: Covers and a defense of irony (long)
The other Junior writes: Sorry - just practicing for my trip to New York later in the year. Junior "Can you tell me the way to Staten Island or should I just go fuck myself now?" Walker A common misconception is that if you stop a New Yorker on the street and ask a question, the response will be rude. This is not true. New Yorkers love to talk. They especially love to give opinions, whether you asked for them or not, and they will gladly tell you why their way of getting to Staten Island is the best way, and why you shouldn't listen to what the other guy who has walked up to join the conversation says about how to get there, and how nobody in New York can give directions properly anymore anyway, because they're all from, y'know, Idaho or someplace, one of those Midwestern states. Except that Staten Island is a bad example to use, because though most New Yorkers know how to get there, they'd rather not, and they don't understand why anyone else would either. New Yorkers may be seething with suppressed rage, but they're still friendly, or at least talkative. --Amy
RE: Covers and a defense of irony (long)
Hello Amy, No offense to New Yorkers meant - everyone I've met so far has been a gem (and a funny one at that) which is kinda why I'm going there if you take my meaning... I think I'm gonna love NY, long as I don't get mugged... Junior "New York City's got a lot to do with it" Walker -Original Message- From: Amy Haugesag [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 4 March 1999 13:18 To: passenger side Subject: RE: Covers and a defense of irony (long) The other Junior writes: Sorry - just practicing for my trip to New York later in the year. Junior "Can you tell me the way to Staten Island or should I just go fuck myself now?" Walker A common misconception is that if you stop a New Yorker on the street and ask a question, the response will be rude. This is not true. New Yorkers love to talk. They especially love to give opinions, whether you asked for them or not, and they will gladly tell you why their way of getting to Staten Island is the best way, and why you shouldn't listen to what the other guy who has walked up to join the conversation says about how to get there, and how nobody in New York can give directions properly anymore anyway, because they're all from, y'know, Idaho or someplace, one of those Midwestern states. Except that Staten Island is a bad example to use, because though most New Yorkers know how to get there, they'd rather not, and they don't understand why anyone else would either. New Yorkers may be seething with suppressed rage, but they're still friendly, or at least talkative. --Amy
