Re: Tweedy generations - cont'd again
Gen X cynicism is a hand-me-down albeit more intensified and "what about me" attitude from the Baby Boom generation. Tera Then why didn't the Velvet Underground sell more records?? Lance . . . A good and rarely made point from Tera--as far as it goes--and a reasonable question from Lance. First off-the Velvets were on a label unprepared to sell anything to anybody in the entire rock and roll arena (they couldn't sell people like the Stonemans in country either)--but also, no doubt about it, the STYLE in which the Velvets expressed the. uh, dark side, certainly was out of keeping with the moment on the broad level. A few Eastern cranks (like myself for one) might have bought those records--and even played some of 'em on the same radio programs as Gram Parsons (I'm, uh, guilty there too!)...but the style so broadly beloved later was largely against the grain. So point proven, right--the audience of 1969 were therefore all spoiled fuckin hippies obnoxious Pollyana sunshiney fake "love" promoters with irony deficiency anemia, who knew nothing about life--unlike the generation to follow who would be born with natural perspective , hard knocks realism, and louder speaker banks. But NO! You have to be able to see irony in places where it's not dog-marked with today's style, and therefore obvious in retrospect; you have to deal with a time and place that actually were different, and styles that reflected that difference--and maybe explore it as an interesting undiscovered country. We've been through this on P2 before--with post '82 hardcore punkers automatically offering the expected opinions about that awful "hippie" Jefferson Airplane, for instance--cause that's the take now, influenced by that truly awful latter-day Starship which had nothing to do with them at all. Get past the labels and listen with fresh ears--and you can rediscover that they, sticking with the example, were the dark, intellectual and cynical band of the tim, --though those attributes did NOT then prevent anybody from suggesting the possibilities of either politics or even some hard-won love. It was 1969, not 1999, and there were smart people and shallow ones afoot then too. White Rabbit is not a hippie song about bunnies, as someone here actually once called it--but one that begins "When the truth is found to be LIES..and all of the joy, inside you DIES..." And they'd really smash those chords, and the clashing harmonies that resulted --obvious on certain cuts of "After Bathing at Baxters" that followed just months later--are absolutely the pattern built on by X some years later. So the unpleasant truth for boomers and X'ers and Y'ers alike is that evolution keeps on evolving--and the radical breaks each of these groups imagine are their "accomplishment" are often not that radical in retrospect.--whether that's pleasant to swallow or not. I've come to a firm belief that Boomer Bashing is surviving now as the nostalgia of today's 30 somethings. Who are getting a little long in the tooth for it themselves! And basically--who gives a damn what they call alt.country--which I believe has been there as long as country has. Barry M.
Re: Tweedy generations - cont'd again. correction
Yeah, yeah, I know. I quoed "Somebody to Love"... Typing too fast at one point. Meant to say: White Rabbit is not "a hippie song about bunnies", as someone here actually once called it--but one by a band and author that also says "When the truth is found to be LIES..and all of the joy, inside you DIES..." Barry M.
Re: Tweedy generations - cont'd again
I've come to a firm belief that Boomer Bashing is surviving now as the
nostalgia of today's 30 somethings. Who are getting a little long in the
tooth for it themselves!
Barry M.
Yeah, it's not a good sign when your girlfriend enjoys playing with your
ever-increasing amount of white hairs ("Hey honey! I found another one.
See?").
But, anyhoo, points well taken, Barry. I feel, of course, that I should
respond for no other reason than my cheeky "fuckin hippie" comments (sorry,
Tera). And actually, I do like to think that I listen to this stuff with
fresh ears, so that if I, perchance, don't get on the Plane, it's NOT
because of their symbolic value as hippie icons. After all, my arms are sore
from taking punches for the Dead, so there is that.
And since we're on the subject--I've been wondering for awhile about the
Velvet's "Who Loves the Sun." I can't decide if this song is Lou Reed's
concession to the "peace and love" demographic, a send-up/parody of that
same demographic, or both. (I tell you what, though, whenever I happen to
have that song on around people who haven't heard it, their reaction tends
to be, "What the hell is THIS?" And not in a good way). If I say it's a
parody, am I really revealing what I want it to be. After all, the Velvet's
can't WANT TO sell records, right? Yeah, I realize that after John Cale
left, the band got suspiciously "poppy," but nevertheless, they didn't sell
records because they were SO OUT THERE. Right? Right? No? D'oh
So, I guess that dovetails back to your point about 1999 vs. 1969 ears,
doesn't it? Well, any ideas on this one are encouraged.
Lance . . .
Re: Velvets and irony (was: Tweedy generations - cont'd again)
And since we're on the subject--I've been wondering for awhile about the Velvet's "Who Loves the Sun." I can't decide if this song is Lou Reed's concession to the "peace and love" demographic, a send-up/parody of that same demographic, or both. s on this one are encouraged. Lance . . . Well, the Velvets are ALSO of their time and place...IMHO, in the case of that song...remember that it's point is "Who Loves the Sun?...no, Not everyone!". (take that Paul McCartney... .The cut is deliberately ironic, exploiting uh "cheese" before we had the word. (Actually we did, we just called it "plastic".) I'd say the way to understand that song is as a send-up of the way the mainstream would attempt to TALK TO the so-called "peace and love demographic" in shampoo ads and sitcoms and soundtracks. It's no concession to anything--though they might have hoped that it could be a hit by mistake! (very Andy Warhol, all that is--was Warhol saluting the Campbell Soup demographic?) The sound of Who Loves the Sun is pure "something for the kids" Hollywood soundtrack style of that year--(references--Check out: Themes and soundtracks from, say, "Goodbye Columbus" or "I Love You Alice B Toklas ") with ultra-white "bah-bah-bahs" courtesy of the Association, Spanky and Our Gang and the Mamas and Papas. But the point of the words is how this stuff does NOT apply to the singer. Which reminds me: Another place to check out irony 60s style: much of the best writing of "Papa" John Phillips--who is talked about as a sort of ultimate mid-60s hippoid now...was in this vein. (No pun originally intended--but a song like "Straight Shooter" shows how the darker his lyrics would get, the more he'd lay on the sort of "catchy" melodies you're hearing in "Who Loves the Sun" too...That's how it would be done. Randy Newman started doing the same thing right about then--nastier the news, sweeter the sound. And John Phillips would soon write one of the first good country rock hits BTW, influenced by Creedence, "Mississippi" (As a longtime resident of the East Village who can still see Mr. Reed walk by here every now and then..I thought I'd take this argument all the way by using California examples!) Meanwhile: the Velvets simply were not a cynical band. You were supposed to be able to take all the hard news possible and STILL FUNCTION. It was not about nihilism. As best stated in that lil ditty that follows "Here Comes the Sun""there are even some evil mothers, who think that life is just dirt..."
Re: Tweedy generations - cont'd again
Barry wrote a bunch of smart stuff, including: You have to be able to see irony in places where it's not dog-marked with today's style, and therefore obvious in retrospect; you have to deal with a time and place that actually were different, and styles that reflected that difference--and maybe explore it as an interesting undiscovered country. and So the unpleasant truth for boomers and X'ers and Y'ers alike is that evolution keeps on evolving--and the radical breaks each of these groups imagine are their "accomplishment" are often not that radical in retrospect.--whether that's pleasant to swallow or not. I've come to a firm belief that Boomer Bashing is surviving now as the nostalgia of today's 30 somethings. Who are getting a little long in the tooth for it themselves! And basically--who gives a damn what they call alt.country--which I believe has been there as long as country has. Nothing special to add to Barry's perspective, clarity, and brevity, g but I heart Barry Mazor! b.s. "The truth ain't always what we need, sometimes we need to hear a beautiful lie." -Bill Lloyd
