Re: Dead 140 - battery rebuilding

[Grizzly]

Hello Martin:

martin wrote:
> 
>  Incidentally, does anyone know how to open up a PB 1xx battery pack
>  without damaging it? Or with a minimal amount of damage?
> 
>  And does anyone know an approximate average Amp-Hour rating for a
>  normal 6V lantern battery?
> 
> I can see where you're going with this, cuz I've been down this path with my
> own PB145. I rebuilt 3 batteries for it, and designed a power convertor for
> the car that converts the 12VDC to very clean 7.5VDC @ 3A so it can recharge
> in the car while I'm using it. Cool huh.

Extremely cool!  Could I get the design for the car power inverter but
in a 16, or 15V version?

O.K., I'll come clean.  What I would really like is the same basic
design, but with a variable voltage control.  Say, from 7.5 VDC to 16
VDC.  I'm willing (and actually want to) build it and do some (or all)
of the design myself, but I do need some help to get started.

If I am asking too much, I understand, but I would like to see the
design of your auto power supply at the very least.

Sincerely yours, Grizzlygiant

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Re: Dead 140 - revived - partially

[res0bznj]

My Reply follows quote. On 17/06/2003 10:08 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 
 

>My PB145 works fine with charged battery, dead battery, or no battery
>at all. I just booted it not 5 minutes ago without one. The only thing
>that would prevent booting was a bad or totally dead battery. In the
>case of totally dead, plugging in the PB (off, not asleep) with battery
>over a weekend.
>
>Incidentally, does anyone know how to open up a PB 1xx battery pack
>without damaging it? Or with a minimal amount of damage?

Well, I have opened them. Because they are glued/welded at the seams, 
some damage does happen. However, by using a slim screwdriver and 
starting at the area near the connector I have worked my way around the 
perimeter with little enough damage to be able to glue it back together. 
I expect your results depends largely on how much glue was used in the 
first place.

>And does anyone know an approximate average Amp-Hour rating for a
>normal 6V lantern battery?

Hmmm, no, but the real problem with these things is that they are either 
the old carbon-zinc or the newer alkaline things (at least the 
non-recargeable ones). Thus their voltage curve in use makes them not 
suitable for computer use. A Nickel-Cadmium cell has a rather flat decay 
curve until it reaches near discharge. The older cells have a steady 
slope decay and, while they will deliver some power over a longer time, 
their delivery voltage quickly drops below that needed for electronic 
devices such as a computer which need a constant voltage supply.

Ken


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Re: Dead 140 - battery rebuilding

[martin]

 Incidentally, does anyone know how to open up a PB 1xx battery pack
 without damaging it? Or with a minimal amount of damage?

 And does anyone know an approximate average Amp-Hour rating for a
 normal 6V lantern battery?


I can see where you're going with this, cuz I've been down this path with my
own PB145. I rebuilt 3 batteries for it, and designed a power convertor for
the car that converts the 12VDC to very clean 7.5VDC @ 3A so it can recharge
in the car while I'm using it. Cool huh.

Best way to open the cases is to scribe around the label face of the pack
using an Exacto knife with a new blade. Just follow the indent around the
label. The trick is to keep cutting around and around until you break
through, NOT try to cut through in one pass. Just be patient. You can switch
to a heavier knife if you're impatient, but you'll end up with a wider cut
which won't look as good later. Once you can cut off the face, just tease
out the cells, and replace them with equal-or-higher rated tabbed cells.
I personally like to leave the packs open, as the cells fit in fairly snugly
and I can change them easily next time, but you could pot them in silicone,
which you just pile in there like meringue, and slice off nice and clean
after it dries (with a sharp blade, or it'll snag). Even comes in gray!  OR
you can glue the face back into place (again silicone is best. While I don't
like to use it for glueing, in this application it's ideal, because of it's
insulating quality, and because it's easy to remove when you want back in).

As I recall, you need 4/5A format cells. The best deals these days are on
NiCd, which is almost as good as the much-hyped NiMH ( I use both, and was
somewhat ... underwhelmed with the NiMH for the extra cost. More important
is to snag the highest Amp/Hour rating you can find ).

I've tested the current draw on my 145, and it draws about 3A on startup,
which levels out to just over 2A when running (backlight and HD on), so you
need a 3A or better supply. You're right in guessing that you can get away
with 6V, but you'd need something like a lead-acid motorcycle battery. You
probably won't even get it to start with a 6V lantern battery (they are
designed for long life at low-moderate current, sorry I don't have the
actual A/hr rating). All things considered, the 100-series Powerbooks are
about the easiest to power, because their voltage is under 12V, and they
only require a single voltage. Any supply between 6 and 8 VDC at 3A or
better will do, although ideally it should be regulated and heavily filtered
(which is why I built the car supply).

Good luck in your battery-rebuilding. Sorry about the long post, but it's a
subject that comes up a lot, so I figured others might also want the info :)

m  



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Re: Dead 140 - revived - partially

[Eric]

My PB145 works fine with charged battery, dead battery, or no battery
at all. I just booted it not 5 minutes ago without one. The only thing
that would prevent booting was a bad or totally dead battery. In the
case of totally dead, plugging in the PB (off, not asleep) with battery
over a weekend.

Incidentally, does anyone know how to open up a PB 1xx battery pack
without damaging it? Or with a minimal amount of damage?

And does anyone know an approximate average Amp-Hour rating for a
normal 6V lantern battery?

-Eric J


=
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Classic II(x2), Performa 405,IIci
6100/66 DOS Compatible, Blue and White G3
and random bits and pieces

You are not drowning in old computer parts until you start charting tides...

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Re: Dead 140 - revived - partially

[Gary Sparkes]

my 140 does the same thing, and mine cannot run off of the battery because a
fuse is dead. bad luck on my part, but without batt and wall power it
wont work, thou it will work batt only when i find a replacment fuse
- Original Message - 
From: "David Pekarsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PowerBooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: Dead 140 - revived - partially


> > Afternoon All
> > Turns out by using 'Battery Amnesia' on my 160 on the best battery of
> > the three I have I got one up to about 5 minutes use.   Lo and behold
> > the 140 will boot from that battery!
> >
> > So - I have proven to my satisfaction that a 140 will not boot without
> > a battery or with a very bad one.
> > Does anyone know how to 'bypass' the battery so it will boot without a
> > battery like the 160 will?
> >
> > Brian
>
> I would just say take out the battery and just use the power adapter
> but I am sure there is something preventing this...  If it will not
> boot without both power sources you might try resetting your power
> management settings, take out both power sources so that and let is sit
> for 5-10 minutes.  Then push both of the little black buttons near the
> power button on the rear of the machine in for 10 seconds or so.  Then
> try to boot it and you will probably have to hit the button (power
> button) a few times and then it should boot.  You may have to repeat
> this a couple times.  Also is your ac adapter a known good one?  I
> would assume so after since you needed something to boot up for battery
> amnesia but I am just checking?
> Dave
>
>
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Re: Dead 140 - revived - partially

[David Pekarsky]

Afternoon All
Turns out by using 'Battery Amnesia' on my 160 on the best battery of
the three I have I got one up to about 5 minutes use.   Lo and behold
the 140 will boot from that battery!
So - I have proven to my satisfaction that a 140 will not boot without
a battery or with a very bad one.
Does anyone know how to 'bypass' the battery so it will boot without a
battery like the 160 will?
Brian
I would just say take out the battery and just use the power adapter 
but I am sure there is something preventing this...  If it will not 
boot without both power sources you might try resetting your power 
management settings, take out both power sources so that and let is sit 
for 5-10 minutes.  Then push both of the little black buttons near the 
power button on the rear of the machine in for 10 seconds or so.  Then 
try to boot it and you will probably have to hit the button (power 
button) a few times and then it should boot.  You may have to repeat 
this a couple times.  Also is your ac adapter a known good one?  I 
would assume so after since you needed something to boot up for battery 
amnesia but I am just checking?
Dave

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Dead 140 - revived - partially

[Brian M]

Afternoon All
Turns out by using 'Battery Amnesia' on my 160 on the best battery of 
the three I have I got one up to about 5 minutes use.   Lo and behold 
the 140 will boot from that battery!

So - I have proven to my satisfaction that a 140 will not boot without 
a battery or with a very bad one.
Does anyone know how to 'bypass' the battery so it will boot without a 
battery like the 160 will?

Brian

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Re: Dead 140

[Eric]

> Turns out the battery was toast and prevented it from starting up
> properly.
> My solution was to run it with no battery and just off AC Power.
> Battery in,
> no startup. Battery out, works great!

My friend with a 180 had a battery like that. He plugged the PB into
the wall with the battery in it and left it over the weekend + a few
days. Now good for a solid 45 min!

-Eric J

=
PB145, iceBook
Classic II(x2), Performa 405,IIci
6100/66 DOS Compatible, Blue and White G3
and random bits and pieces

You are not drowning in old computer parts until you start charting tides...

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Re: Dead 140

[Olin Jenkins]

Greetings PowerBooks friends:

On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:38:21 -0400, David Pekarsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am on digest so please do not squak, chirp, or caw if this has been
answered already...
Me as well, but I need to return the favor for this list helping 
resurrect my PB170. So...

 > I have a PowerBook 140 that (after sitting in a closet for a couple of
 years) won't boot up - no chimes, no drive whirr, nothin'
 either on battery or the cord or both.
Have you tried resetting the power management settings?  Apple has a
til on it and for the life of myself, I can not remember how to do it
offhand despite owning six 1xx machines some in various states of
completeness.
Unplug the power adapter and take the battery out. Let the 140 sit 
for about five minutes. Simultaneously press the interrupt and reset 
buttons (use two paper clips or stylii) that are next to the power 
button for about 10-15 seconds. If you have a suspect battery, leave 
it out (as Chris K. noted), plug in the AC adapter and boot up.

 >- Tried three different main batteries and three different power
 cords.  A PowerBook 160 will boot from the cord with or without two of
 the three batteries  (the third battery will stop it from booting up as
 well)
Resetting power management on the 160 will fix that as will battery
amnesia which will help to recondition the battery after repetitive
uses such the powerbook may be able to run by itself on solely the
battery and at the least get the machine to recognize the battery.
Unless the battery is on its way out completely. I have an old 
Macintosh-manufactured 140-170 battery that will boot my 170 and 
promptly shut down. I tricked Battery Amnesia into "draining" it and 
then tried re-charging it. No luck.

 > There was some mention of a fuse - where?

I need to know myself in order to replace one on my frankenstein 145
top and 145b bottom...
Wish I could remember who (at this list) sent me to this URL:

It's the full story about the original Model M5140 power adapter that 
kills mobo fuses. Examine the power adapter's tip, specifically if 
you have that model. My power adapter's plastic insulation got 
chipped and fried the internal fuse. (I've ordered a replacement mobo 
fuse, and it's taking half of forever to come in; in the meantime, 
Tim Nix at the Swaplist sent me a replacement mobo, and my 170's 
doing fine). I'm now using a M5652 power adapter.

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Re: Dead 140

[Roger Volk]

Brian,

The fuse you speak of is on the motherboard next to the battery
connector, it is a 5amp 125v surface mount.  Usually the machine will
bootup with both a charged battery and AC adapter plugged in, have you
tried Booting up from a Norton utilities boot disk or an Apple disk tools
disk?  I have tested, functioning mother and daughter boards that I'll let
go for $10.00 for the pair plus shipping.  All the hardware will work on a
160 as will the memory card, I'm not sure about the screen, but I think
not.

Roger

Brian M wrote:

> Afternoon all
> New poster
>
> I have a PowerBook 140 that (after sitting in a closet for a couple of
> years) won't boot up - no chimes, no drive whirr, nothin'
> either on battery or the cord or both.
>
> I have:
>- Tried three different main batteries and three different power
> cords.  A PowerBook 160 will boot from the cord with or without two of
> the three batteries  (the third battery will stop it from booting up as
> well)
>- Replaced the lithium battery inside with a fresh 3V one.
>- Tried to search around both Google and this list's archives.
>
> There was some mention of a fuse - where?
> Any other suggestions?
> Brian
>
> PS  If it is toast - how many components can I use as spares for the
> 160?
>  ram, drives, modem, screen, keyboard, trackball?
>


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Re: Dead 140

[David Pekarsky]

I am on digest so please do not squak, chirp, or caw if this has been 
answered already...

Subject: Dead 140

Afternoon all
New poster
I have a PowerBook 140 that (after sitting in a closet for a couple of
years) won't boot up - no chimes, no drive whirr, nothin'
either on battery or the cord or both.
Have you tried resetting the power management settings?  Apple has a 
til on it and for the life of myself, I can not remember how to do it 
offhand despite owning six 1xx machines some in various states of 
completeness.  Surely someone will know offhand but otherwise, apple 
does have a til on resetting the power management settings on older 
powerbooks and the 1xx series is in there somewhere.

I have:
   - Tried three different main batteries and three different power
cords.  A PowerBook 160 will boot from the cord with or without two of
the three batteries  (the third battery will stop it from booting up as
well)
Resetting power management on the 160 will fix that as will battery 
amnesia which will help to recondition the battery after repetitive 
uses such the powerbook may be able to run by itself on solely the 
battery and at the least get the machine to recognize the battery.

   - Replaced the lithium battery inside with a fresh 3V one.
   - Tried to search around both Google and this list's archives.
There was some mention of a fuse - where?
I need to know myself in order to replace one on my frankenstein 145 
top and 145b bottom...

Any other suggestions?
Brian
PS  If it is toast - how many components can I use as spares for the
160?
 ram, drives, modem, screen, keyboard, trackball?
-Ram from a 160 is plenty fast for a 140 but I do not think the 140 
will take the ram from the 160 with a slightly lower (faster) 
nanoseconds access time spec.
-Hard drive is definitely a check as they are quite expensive for their 
age.
-Modem should work as well as the the keyboard, floppy drive, and 
trackball assembly.
-I do not know about the screen as the only time I have performed a 
screen swap, both powerbooks (donor and patient) were from the 140, 
145, 145b group of powerbooks which meant that they would obviously 
work.

Any other comments on what I missed...

Dave

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Re: Dead 140

[Christopher Kolp]

My PowerBook 145 did that when I purchased it. It wouldn't start off Battery
of AC power.

Turns out the battery was toast and prevented it from starting up properly.
My solution was to run it with no battery and just off AC Power. Battery in,
no startup. Battery out, works great!

Give that a try, it might point you in the right direction,

Chris K.

> 
>> I have a PowerBook 140 that (after sitting in a closet for a couple
>> of 
>> years) won't boot up - no chimes, no drive whirr, nothin'
>> either on battery or the cord or both.


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Re: Dead 140

[Eric]

--- Brian M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Afternoon all
> New poster
 
Welcome!

> I have a PowerBook 140 that (after sitting in a closet for a couple
> of 
> years) won't boot up - no chimes, no drive whirr, nothin'
> either on battery or the cord or both.
> 
> I have:
>- Tried three different main batteries and three different power 
> cords.  A PowerBook 160 will boot from the cord with or without two
> of 
> the three batteries  (the third battery will stop it from booting up
> as 
> well)
>- Replaced the lithium battery inside with a fresh 3V one.
>- Tried to search around both Google and this list's archives.

I got a used PB 145 with the same problem. I left it plugged in
overnight, and it worked the next afternoon.
 
> There was some mention of a fuse - where?

Don't know about any fuse.

> Any other suggestions?

Take out all circuit cards and check to see if anything is shorted.
Also check that all insulators are in place. Look at the cards to see
if there are any obvious signs of overheating/component failure such
as: discoloration, looks like it melted, loose things in sockets, etc.
Double check that the battery and power cord connectors are firmly
attached to the board and not shorting out.

> Brian
> 
> PS  If it is toast - how many components can I use as spares for the 
> 160?
>  ram, drives, modem, screen, keyboard, trackball?

The only different pieces are the CPU board and possibly the screen,
everything else should be identical. The CPU board should work, just
slower. The screen should work.

=
PB145, iceBook
Classic II(x2), Performa 405,IIci
6100/66 DOS Compatible, Blue and White G3
and random bits and pieces

You are not drowning in old computer parts until you start charting tides...

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Dead 140

[Brian M]

Afternoon all
New poster
I have a PowerBook 140 that (after sitting in a closet for a couple of 
years) won't boot up - no chimes, no drive whirr, nothin'
either on battery or the cord or both.

I have:
  - Tried three different main batteries and three different power 
cords.  A PowerBook 160 will boot from the cord with or without two of 
the three batteries  (the third battery will stop it from booting up as 
well)
  - Replaced the lithium battery inside with a fresh 3V one.
  - Tried to search around both Google and this list's archives.

There was some mention of a fuse - where?
Any other suggestions?
Brian
PS  If it is toast - how many components can I use as spares for the 
160?
ram, drives, modem, screen, keyboard, trackball?

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