Re: PB1400 prob

[djl]

Thanks, I'm already back from Battery's Plus (it's close by), I had the 
battery with me and the guy walked right up to the identical dual 
battery, VL2330 on the shelf.  $19.99.  Not sure if it's a panasonic 
though.   I could not get the thing to boot up from an original mac cd, 
(internal nor external).   It always seemed to look at the drive then 
continue booting from the hd.  And would never complete the boot.

I forgot to mention also that there appears to be some over heating on 
the mb near the power plug.  There is a little melted plastic (a 
plastic tab attached to the upper half of the case right above the 
power plug.)

I'll let you know how it goes.
Dan

On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 11:16 AM, Andrew Kershaw wrote:
>
> I came in a little late on this one - Kenta's advise is good.  I'd
> recommend doing it before dropping the couple of bucks on the
> battery...  Try booting from a floppy (8.1 Disk Tools is online for
> free at Apple) and doing what is mentioned here.
>
> I've been reading the threads on PRAM batteries...  I don't know
> about the Batteries Plus in other cities, but here in Denver they
> don't have the VL types of any batteries.  They only have CR types
> (witness my PRAM battery thread of a few months ago).  The VL2330 is
> the same PRAM battery as in the 5300 (and what Batteries Plus
> _doesn't_ have, at least not locally).  In fact,
>  lists only
> the CR2330 (which I mistook for being the same as the VL2330) and NO
> VL types.
>
> I'd recommend calling in advance.  Be specific - ask if they have
> "_VL_" 2330 type lithium coin cells.  Maybe I can save you some gas
> and a useless drive.
>
> Peace,
> Drew
> -- 


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[Andrew Kershaw]

>   It wasn't completing the start up. I turned off the 'offending' 
>extension using the ext mgr (holding space bar at startup). But then 
>a different extension would be given in the error message. I 
>repeated the process several times, turning off each 'offending' 
>extension one at a time. Then I turned off all extensions and still 
>wasn't able to finish the startup (getting the error: "To turn off 
>extensions" ) even though it said that the extensions were off 
>at the splash screen (whatever that's called).
>
>I now have it apart with the Pram battery in hand and heading to the 
>Battery's Plus. It's a dual Panasonic VL2330, 3v.
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
>On Monday, February 17, 2003, at 06:48 PM, k wrote:
>
>>
>>if you can start up AT ALL put the preference folder out on the
>>desktop and restart, if that works manually one buy one put back the
>>prefs not in use,
>>trash apple menu prefs, finder prefs,appswitch prefs ,appletalk
>>prefs,extension manager prefs ,aslm prefs finder prefs ,macos
>>prefs,systemprefs
>>and redo the settings.
>>I bad prambattery could have made a filestructure problem or an
>>electric schock, switching scsi connections etc can have affaected
>>the filestructure,
>>at least this was the case with a PM 6100/66
>>kenta
>>--

I came in a little late on this one - Kenta's advise is good.  I'd 
recommend doing it before dropping the couple of bucks on the 
battery...  Try booting from a floppy (8.1 Disk Tools is online for 
free at Apple) and doing what is mentioned here.

I've been reading the threads on PRAM batteries...  I don't know 
about the Batteries Plus in other cities, but here in Denver they 
don't have the VL types of any batteries.  They only have CR types 
(witness my PRAM battery thread of a few months ago).  The VL2330 is 
the same PRAM battery as in the 5300 (and what Batteries Plus 
_doesn't_ have, at least not locally).  In fact, 
 lists only 
the CR2330 (which I mistook for being the same as the VL2330) and NO 
VL types.

I'd recommend calling in advance.  Be specific - ask if they have 
"_VL_" 2330 type lithium coin cells.  Maybe I can save you some gas 
and a useless drive.

Peace,
Drew
-- 

Author of ClassicStumbler
email: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
web: 

Want to know if your neighbor has Wi-Fi?  Find out with 
ClassicStumbler! 


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[djl]

It wasn't completing the start up.  I turned off the 'offending' 
extension using the ext mgr (holding space bar at startup).  But then a 
different extension would be given in the error message.  I repeated 
the process several times, turning off each 'offending' extension one 
at a time.  Then I turned off all extensions and still wasn't able to 
finish the startup (getting the error: "To turn off extensions" ) 
even though it said that the extensions were off at the splash screen 
(whatever that's called).

I now have it apart with the Pram battery in hand and heading to the 
Battery's Plus.  It's a dual Panasonic VL2330, 3v.
Thanks,
Dan

On Monday, February 17, 2003, at 06:48 PM, k wrote:
>
> if you can start up AT ALL  put the preference folder out on the
> desktop and restart, if that works manually one buy one put back the
> prefs not in use,
> trash apple menu prefs, finder prefs,appswitch prefs ,appletalk
> prefs,extension manager prefs ,aslm prefs finder prefs ,macos
> prefs,systemprefs
> and redo the settings.
> I bad prambattery could have made a filestructure problem or an
> electric schock, switching scsi connections etc can have affaected
> the filestructure,
> at least this was the case with a PM 6100/66
> kenta
> -- 


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[k]

>I haven't tried the zapping.  I can get the floppy drive, will try
>that.  I'll also try the 'base' extensions.
>thanks for the help...
>Dan

if you can start up AT ALL  put the preference folder out on the 
desktop and restart, if that works manually one buy one put back the 
prefs not in use,
trash apple menu prefs, finder prefs,appswitch prefs ,appletalk 
prefs,extension manager prefs ,aslm prefs finder prefs ,macos 
prefs,systemprefs
and redo the settings.
I bad prambattery could have made a filestructure problem or an 
electric schock, switching scsi connections etc can have affaected 
the filestructure,
at least this was the case with a PM 6100/66
kenta
-- 

-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[djl]

I haven't tried the zapping.  I can get the floppy drive, will try 
that.  I'll also try the 'base' extensions.
thanks for the help...
Dan

On Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 08:23 PM, John Smith wrote:

> I didn't think the PRAM Battery caused anything this serious, just 
> loss of
> time etc in the finder when you wake/start up.
>
> Surely once the main battery or AC power is applied the PRAM battery 
> would
> be irrelevant?? But like I said, I just don't know.
>
> I assume you've tried it already, but you can zap the PRAM,
> (command-option-P-R when starting up), who knows, it might work.
>
> Also, I recall getting the 'to start up without extensions, hold shift 
> down'
> warning once, I restarted and the second time it worked ok (ie, no
> extensions) - a little temperamental obviously...
>
> Did you try Mac OS Base extensions set when using the extensions 
> manager?
> How about simply going back to the way it was? Maybe it's moved some 
> files
> around, and 'bumped' something into place... ???
>
> If all else fails, you can ask if anyone is in your area on this list, 
> and
> maybe borrow a floppy drive...
>
> ...or a service centre.
>
> Good luck,
>
> --
> john
>
> On 17/2/03 1:00 PM, "djl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> this is one bad pickle
>>
>> I didn't say before but I got to the extension manager using the space
>> bar, then turned off the Time sync extension and continued booting 
>> only
>> to get a different extension error (HP Background...) rebooted again
>> back to the ext mgr, turned off that one, and got a different 
>> extension
>> error, back to ext mgr, turned that one off and another extension
>> error.  Then I turned all extensions off and got the "To turn
>> extensions off, hold the shift key..." message, which is the same
>> message that comes up when holding the shift key.
>>
>> I've been trying original os 8.0, 9.2, techtool with 9.04, techtool
>> with 8.6, cds, on the internal cd drive, and the external non-apple 
>> cd.
>> I don't have a floppy/ drive or os disk.   It was/is running os 9.0.
>> It's a friends machine who said it was working fine for a few months
>> since the 9.0 install then this 'lockout'
>>
>> Would a bad pram battery cause this?  It just feel like it.
>> Dan
>
>
> -- 
> PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...
>
>   Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
>   -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |
>
>   Support Low End Mac 
>
> PowerBooks list info:   
>   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> Send list messages to:  
> To unsubscribe, email:  
> For digest mode, email: 
> Subscription questions: 
> Archive: 
>
> Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
>


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[John Smith]

I didn't think the PRAM Battery caused anything this serious, just loss of
time etc in the finder when you wake/start up.

Surely once the main battery or AC power is applied the PRAM battery would
be irrelevant?? But like I said, I just don't know.

I assume you've tried it already, but you can zap the PRAM,
(command-option-P-R when starting up), who knows, it might work.

Also, I recall getting the 'to start up without extensions, hold shift down'
warning once, I restarted and the second time it worked ok (ie, no
extensions) - a little temperamental obviously...

Did you try Mac OS Base extensions set when using the extensions manager?
How about simply going back to the way it was? Maybe it's moved some files
around, and 'bumped' something into place... ???

If all else fails, you can ask if anyone is in your area on this list, and
maybe borrow a floppy drive...

...or a service centre.

Good luck,

--
john

On 17/2/03 1:00 PM, "djl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> this is one bad pickle
> 
> I didn't say before but I got to the extension manager using the space
> bar, then turned off the Time sync extension and continued booting only
> to get a different extension error (HP Background...) rebooted again
> back to the ext mgr, turned off that one, and got a different extension
> error, back to ext mgr, turned that one off and another extension
> error.  Then I turned all extensions off and got the "To turn
> extensions off, hold the shift key..." message, which is the same
> message that comes up when holding the shift key.
> 
> I've been trying original os 8.0, 9.2, techtool with 9.04, techtool
> with 8.6, cds, on the internal cd drive, and the external non-apple cd.
> I don't have a floppy/ drive or os disk.   It was/is running os 9.0.
> It's a friends machine who said it was working fine for a few months
> since the 9.0 install then this 'lockout'
> 
> Would a bad pram battery cause this?  It just feel like it.
> Dan


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[djl]

this is one bad pickle

I didn't say before but I got to the extension manager using the space 
bar, then turned off the Time sync extension and continued booting only 
to get a different extension error (HP Background...) rebooted again 
back to the ext mgr, turned off that one, and got a different extension 
error, back to ext mgr, turned that one off and another extension 
error.  Then I turned all extensions off and got the "To turn 
extensions off, hold the shift key..." message, which is the same 
message that comes up when holding the shift key.

I've been trying original os 8.0, 9.2, techtool with 9.04, techtool 
with 8.6, cds, on the internal cd drive, and the external non-apple cd. 
  I don't have a floppy/ drive or os disk.   It was/is running os 9.0.  
It's a friends machine who said it was working fine for a few months 
since the 9.0 install then this 'lockout'

Would a bad pram battery cause this?  It just feel like it.
Dan

On Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 06:40 PM, John Smith wrote:

> Well, this IS a dilly of a pickle...
>
> The internal CD drive should be able to start-up of a disk. If not, 
> there is
> something wrong with the disk or the drive. Your external drive: is it
> apple-branded? Older non-apple Cd-drives were more difficult to get 
> working
> (from memory) because apple didn't support them in the OS.
>
> Is the CD you are trying to boot up off ok? What version of the OS is 
> it? I
> tried booting my 1400 using a tech tool pro disk, which didn't work, 
> not
> sure why, but my guess is incompatible OS (9.0.4). Sounds dumb, but try
> cleaning it, by wiping from the centre of the disk outwards, and 
> working
> your way around. Wiping in a circle (i.e., along the track the laser 
> reads)
> can destroy the disk, so try to avoid that :-)
>
> If you have one, use an original Mac OS disk. Otherwise, try using a 
> floppy
> disk to start 'er up. All you need to do (by the sounds of it) is get 
> to the
> finder. Regardless of what drivers/extensions are installed, you can 
> always
> manually remove the time-sync extensions, which are the original 
> reason for
> this whole calamity...
>
> ---
> John
>
>
> On 17/2/03 11:25 AM, "djl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I've tried these four (command-option-shift-delete) and other combos
>> with no luck.  Turning off extensions with the shift or space
>> bar(extensions mgr) returns the error: "To turn off extensions, hold
>> the shift key while starting up"
>>
>> ?
>> Dan
>
>
> -- 
> PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...
>
>   Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
>   -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |
>
>   Support Low End Mac 
>
> PowerBooks list info:   
>   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> Send list messages to:  
> To unsubscribe, email:  
> For digest mode, email: 
> Subscription questions: 
> Archive: 
>
> Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
>


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[John Smith]

Well, this IS a dilly of a pickle...

The internal CD drive should be able to start-up of a disk. If not, there is
something wrong with the disk or the drive. Your external drive: is it
apple-branded? Older non-apple Cd-drives were more difficult to get working
(from memory) because apple didn't support them in the OS.

Is the CD you are trying to boot up off ok? What version of the OS is it? I
tried booting my 1400 using a tech tool pro disk, which didn't work, not
sure why, but my guess is incompatible OS (9.0.4). Sounds dumb, but try
cleaning it, by wiping from the centre of the disk outwards, and working
your way around. Wiping in a circle (i.e., along the track the laser reads)
can destroy the disk, so try to avoid that :-)

If you have one, use an original Mac OS disk. Otherwise, try using a floppy
disk to start 'er up. All you need to do (by the sounds of it) is get to the
finder. Regardless of what drivers/extensions are installed, you can always
manually remove the time-sync extensions, which are the original reason for
this whole calamity...

---
John


On 17/2/03 11:25 AM, "djl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've tried these four (command-option-shift-delete) and other combos
> with no luck.  Turning off extensions with the shift or space
> bar(extensions mgr) returns the error: "To turn off extensions, hold
> the shift key while starting up"
> 
> ?
> Dan


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[djl]

I've tried these four (command-option-shift-delete) and other combos 
with no luck.  Turning off extensions with the shift or space 
bar(extensions mgr) returns the error: "To turn off extensions, hold 
the shift key while starting up"

?
Dan

On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 05:28 PM, David Allen wrote:

> Right on the money. The command bypasses the startup drive and looks 
> for any
> other OS. The joys of internal IDE/external SCSI device detection. I'd 
> try that
> route before investing in the labor and cost of a PRAM battery, 
> although many
> batteries seem to be biting the dust lately. Looks like the life 
> expectancy of
> the 1400's PRAM battery is about 5 to 7 years.
>
> David Allen
>
> John Smith wrote:
>
>> Yep, holding 'c' won't work when booting up these machines, I can't 
>> remember
>> the exact combination, something like command-option-shift-delete when
>> starting up.
>
>
> -- 
> PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...
>
>   Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
>   -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |
>
>   Support Low End Mac 
>
> PowerBooks list info:   
>   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> Send list messages to:  
> To unsubscribe, email:  
> For digest mode, email: 
> Subscription questions: 
> Archive: 
>
> Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
>


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[John Smith]

On 14/2/03 10:28 AM, "David Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>---
> Looks like the life expectancy of
> the 1400's PRAM battery is about 5 to 7 years.
>---

Which isn't really all that bad, I mean, I use rechargeable batteries in
torches, radios, computer mice, etc etc, and I don't think I've ever had one
last 7 years...


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[David Allen]

Right on the money. The command bypasses the startup drive and looks for any
other OS. The joys of internal IDE/external SCSI device detection. I'd try that
route before investing in the labor and cost of a PRAM battery, although many
batteries seem to be biting the dust lately. Looks like the life expectancy of
the 1400's PRAM battery is about 5 to 7 years.

David Allen

John Smith wrote:

> Yep, holding 'c' won't work when booting up these machines, I can't remember
> the exact combination, something like command-option-shift-delete when
> starting up.


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: PB1400 prob

[John Smith]

Yep, holding 'c' won't work when booting up these machines, I can't remember
the exact combination, something like command-option-shift-delete when
starting up. Usually in times like this, I just hold down as many of the
typical buttons (i.e., option, command, control etc etc) and go from there.
I AM certain the delete button is used...

Another one you might like to try is booting up normally (i.e., without the
CD) and hold shift down, to turn all extensions off, including time-sync.

Your third option (and in my opinion, the best one) is to start up holding
the space bar down. Before any extensions load, the extensions manager will
pop up. Turn off anything to do with time-sync and click continue.

Good luck with it...

--
John


On 14/2/03 8:19 AM, "djl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I get a "Time Synchronization"  error Type 41 about half way through
> the boot up.  And I'm not able to get it to boot from any internal or
> external CD.  It seems to 'see' that there is a CD but ignores my
> "holding down the 'C' key" request to boot up from a CD.
> 
> Is it a pram battery issue?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan
> 


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

PB1400 prob

[djl]

I get a "Time Synchronization"  error Type 41 about half way through 
the boot up.  And I'm not able to get it to boot from any internal or 
external CD.  It seems to 'see' that there is a CD but ignores my 
"holding down the 'C' key" request to boot up from a CD.

Is it a pram battery issue?

Thanks,
Dan


-- 
PowerBooks is sponsored by  and...

  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

PowerBooks list info:   
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com