Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
I tried to do this (more or less), using the 8.5 Disk Tools disk, which aside from unadorned 7.5 (which won't boot the 5300) was the only one I had. The network remained invisible. Where do you get the 7.5.3 and/or 7.6 Disk Tools anyway? All I could find on Apple's site, aside from the unworkable Network Access disk, was the abovementioned massive 19 part whole kit and kaboodle 7.5.x. Well, I don't know about the 7.6 disk tools image, but the 8.1 image definitely is on Apple's site: http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Mac_OS_8.1_Update/ Then you could download OT 1.1.1 or 1.1.2 in disk-image sized pieces (actually, each piece IS a disk image - alternatively, you can do the net install download and chunk it up yourself, but this is probably harder): http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/Networking-Communications/Open_Transport/ This, if I remember correctly, was one option I had mentioned a while ago. The other was for me to send you the minimal system 7.5.2 w/ PowerBook 5300 Enabler as a floppy image, then download OT 1.1.1 on top of that. Same effect, though. Have you tried Gamba's site at all? I know he used to have links to Disk Tools images (and some rather illegitimate sources of system 7 and OS 8). Peace, Drew -- Author of ClassicStumbler email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://homepage.mac.com/alk/ Want to know if your neighbor has Wi-Fi? Find out with ClassicStumbler! http://homepage.mac.com/alk/classicstumbler/ -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Dan K wrote: but I've already spent wy too much time futzing with this. G Amen! Thanks to everyone who's tried to help me out of this mudhole, but now maybe we should all go back to saving the world or churning out great novels or whatever else it is we do. I downloaded a 7.5.2 disk tools image and after getting caught up with all the not-done chores that have accumulated over the past two days will experiment with getting the network up and running that way (just to see what will happen), but figure that SCSI disk mode is my ace in the whole. With lots of gratitude, Victoria -- Don't blame me, I voted with the majority. -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Dan, Great idea! Can you list the *exact* contents of the disk(s) you made for the 5300? TIA! Regards, Bob Eye Dallas, TX -Original Message- Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:54:10 -0500 From: Dan K [EMAIL PROTECTED] Idea #2) Use the Network SW Installer . . . : ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/Networking-Communications/Network_Software_Installer/ZM-NSI_1.5.1.sea.bin to install Appletalk onto a Disk Tools floppy (use the custom install option to install _just_ AT.) I tried the 7.5.3 and 7.6 Disk Tools 2 disks, discard the usual utility pair to make enough room. You'll need to add the Chooser and the Appleshare Chooser extension (those bits from the NAD seem to work OK) to access your AS network volumes. I'm browsing volumes on my G3 DT under 9.2.2 from my 5300 as I type this. There _should_ be enough room to install a enet PC card driver along with basic enet support, but I've not tested that yet. The end result of the above procedure provided me with a close approximation of the good ol' Network Access Disk, but for PBs 5300/190/2300. -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Dan, Great idea! Can you list the *exact* contents of the disk(s) you made for the 5300? TIA! Regards, Bob Eye Dallas, TX -Original Message- Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:54:10 -0500 From: Dan K [EMAIL PROTECTED] Idea #2) Use the Network SW Installer . . . : ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/Networking-Communications/Network_Software_Installer/ZM-NSI_1.5.1.sea.bin to install Appletalk onto a Disk Tools floppy (use the custom install option to install _just_ AT.) I tried the 7.5.3 and 7.6 Disk Tools 2 disks, discard the usual utility pair to make enough room. You'll need to add the Chooser and the Appleshare Chooser extension (those bits from the NAD seem to work OK) to access your AS network volumes. I'm browsing volumes on my G3 DT under 9.2.2 from my 5300 as I type this. There _should_ be enough room to install a enet PC card driver along with basic enet support, but I've not tested that yet. The end result of the above procedure provided me with a close approximation of the good ol' Network Access Disk, but for PBs 5300/190/2300. -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
I wrote: Idea #2) Use the Network SW Installer . . . : ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-Nort= h_American/Macintosh/Networking-Communications/Network_Software_Installer= /ZM-NSI_1.5.1.sea.bin to install Appletalk onto a Disk Tools floppy (use the custom install option to install _just_ AT.) I tried the 7.5.3 and 7.6 Disk Tools 2 disks, discard the usual utility pair to make enough room. You'll need to add the Chooser and the Appleshare Chooser extension (those bits from the NAD seem to work OK) to access your AS network volumes. I'm browsing volumes on my G3 DT under 9.2.2 from my 5300 as I type this. There _should_ be enough room to install a enet PC card driver along with basic enet support, but I've not tested that yet. The end result of the above procedure provided me with a close approximatio= n of the good ol' Network Access Disk, but for PBs 5300/190/2300. Then Bob Eye wrote: Great idea! Thanks! Can you list the *exact* contents of the disk(s) you made for the 5300? TIA! 'K: I started with: Disk Tools 2 v7.5.3 - deleting the utility pair and CD-ROM extension and Network Software Installer 1.5.1 - (the disk below is with just the AT bits installed, no enet) -- System Folder 1.2MB Apple Menu Items Chooser v7.5NAD 18K --from the 7.5 Network Access Disk Control Panels Network v3.0.2NAD 22K --from the 7.5 Network Access Disk Disk Tools 2 Enabler v7.5.3DT 2K Extensions AppleShare v3.5NAD 55K --from the 7.5 Network Access Disk Finder v7.5.5DT 379K System v7.5.3DT 796K hth, Dan K -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Drew Victoria k, Thanks for trying to help me out of my self-created mess, but I decided the coward's way out has a lot to be said for it and bought a dual-purpose SCSI adapter on eBay. It should get here in a few days, and the PB might as well take a vacation till then. Once the OS is installed I'll try to figure out whether the partitioned drive actually does make VM work more smoothly: it was a nuisance and a half a couple of weeks ago when I was traveling and using the PB constantly for email etc. At home it's used almost entirely for word processing so VM doesn't often become relevant. Best, and thanks again, Victoria -- Don't blame me, I voted with the majority. -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Victoria, I'm sorry you couldn't make it work. I still think you might be missing a piece here or there, though (like the OpenTransport extension itself - you definitely need that). You probably don't need to worry about Appearance if the only app that complains about it is File Sharing (just don't use that control panel). The SCSI adapter will come in handy, definitely. Yes, you can do a system software install while it is in SCSI Disk Mode, contrary to popular belief. Just do a custom install and pick all the PowerBook stuff (the hard way), or do a custom install - universal system install and then prune out the bits you don't need (the not-as-hard way). But don't pick easy install as that WILL not install all the PowerBook relevant parts. Or, you could do the really hard 19-part download on your 2nd Mac, mount the combined image, convert it with DiskCopy into 1 big fat image, segment it with DropStuff into floppy-sized chunks, copy each chunk to the empty space on your 5300, expand them with Stuffit Expander, mount the big fat disk image, and install away. ;-) ... or not... heh Peace, Drew -- Author of ClassicStumbler email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://homepage.mac.com/alk/ Want to know if your neighbor has Wi-Fi? Find out with ClassicStumbler! http://homepage.mac.com/alk/classicstumbler/ -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Or, you could do the really hard 19-part download on your 2nd Mac, mount the combined image, convert it with DiskCopy into 1 big fat image, segment it with DropStuff into floppy-sized chunks, copy each chunk to the empty space on your 5300, expand them with Stuffit Expander, mount the big fat disk image, and install away. ;-) ... or not... heh -- Couldn't you just copy the 'really big fat image' onto the 5300's hard drive whilst in SCSI disk mode (seeing as you now have the proper cable)? Then install the OS with the 5300 booting up of a floppy disk? That way, you can just do the good 'ol easy install... -- John -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Couldn't you just copy the 'really big fat image' onto the 5300's hard drive whilst in SCSI disk mode (seeing as you now have the proper cable)? Then install the OS with the 5300 booting up of a floppy disk? That way, you can just do the good 'ol easy install... Well, yes. But I thought she wanted to install 8.x (8.5?) and not 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 update. So that would be counter productive. The whole problem was getting her 5300 working with a LAN (ethernet or LocalTalk) and installing 8.5 over the network. She needed a system on the 5300 that would allow her to at least boot and run AppleTalk. Yes, the system 7.5 19-part download would be overkill. I was just saying... Anyway, this is all moot since she will be getting a SCSI adapter in a couple days. Certainly she could copy the relevant 8.5 installer files to the 5300 while in disk mode, reboot, and do the easy install, but to me this seems like more work than actually doing a custom install while in SCSI disk mode. Plus, while in SCSI disk mode, the installer will run a little more quickly (being as it will be running on a 7600, right?) than if she were doing all the work on the 100MHz cacheless 603e. Peace, Drew -- Author of ClassicStumbler email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://homepage.mac.com/alk/ Want to know if your neighbor has Wi-Fi? Find out with ClassicStumbler! http://homepage.mac.com/alk/classicstumbler/ -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Drew wrote: Tee hee, I never thought that this was a good idea! ;-) Needer needer needer! Told you so. Heh... I'll give you whatever help I can! Now Drew, your reservations had _nothing_ to do with installing a new OS on her blank HD. You just thought the idea of VM on a separate partition was silly. G OK Victoria, as I'm at least partly responsible for your predicament, here're some solutions: Idea #1) If you want to go ahead and do a full floppy install: ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/mac/mirrors/apple/support/PowerBook/PB_5300_ SW_Update/ These are actual floppy images and will apparently install a clean OS 7.5.2, read this: PB_5300_SW_Update.txt Idea #2) Use the Network SW Installer . . . : ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-Nort h_American/Macintosh/Networking-Communications/Network_Software_Installer/Z M-NSI_1.5.1.sea.bin to install Appletalk onto a Disk Tools floppy (use the custom install option to install _just_ AT.) I tried the 7.5.3 and 7.6 Disk Tools 2 disks, discard the usual utility pair to make enough room. You'll need to add the Chooser and the Appleshare Chooser extension (those bits from the NAD seem to work OK) to access your AS network volumes. I'm browsing volumes on my G3 DT under 9.2.2 from my 5300 as I type this. There _should_ be enough room to install a enet PC card driver along with basic enet support, but I've not tested that yet. The end result of the above procedure provided me with a close approximation of the good ol' Network Access Disk, but for PBs 5300/190/2300. I also constructed a similar disk for PB3400, but haven't tested it yet. Here's a weird thing, the 3400 Disk Tools floppy has v7.5.3 System and 7.5.5 Finder, plus Minimal PowerBook 3400 Enabler. There's also an extension called Insomnia, which I presume keeps the 'Book from falling asleep? hth, Dan K PS: I'm not sure, but I think that's Neener, neener, neener . . . -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Just to make sure I've got a good picture of what you've got installed: Finder (OS 8.5) System (OS 8.5) Chooser OpenTransport bitspieces: AppleTalk control panel, TCP/IP control panel*, AppleShare extension, Open Transport, Open Transport ASLM Modules, OpenTpt Serial Arbitrator, OpenTptAppleTalkLib, OpenTptInternetLib*, OpenTransportLib, File Sharing control panel* Other Extensions: Serial (Built-in), Shared Library Manager*, Shared Library Manager PPC*, EtherTalk Phase 2** Farallon drivers * You probably don't really need these items ** I have no idea if _I_ need this item, but it's installed on my 5300. You probably don't need it though AppearanceLib means that you need to install the Appearance Manager. Install the Appearance extension, maybe also the Appearance control panel. Newer apps (apparently File Sharing is in this category) rely on the Appearance Manager to draw themselves correctly. I _THINK_ the Appearance extension was rolled into the system on OS 8.5+ but you might be able to grab the extension from 8.1 for this... Otherwise, I dunno. My 8.6 doesn't have this extension. Anyway, make sure you've got all those OT bits installed. You don't have to worry about File Sharing or any TCP/IP stuff, since you won't be sharing your 5300 or using anything but AppleTalk. Instead, you'll be connecting to the remote machine through your 5300's chooser. If this all fails, you could try with the 8.1 disk tools disk, using OT 1.1.x bits and pieces, and going from there... Good luck! Tee hee, I never thought that this was a good idea! ;-) Needer needer needer! Told you so. Heh... I'll give you whatever help I can! Peace, Drew -- Author of ClassicStumbler email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://homepage.mac.com/alk/ Want to know if your neighbor has Wi-Fi? Find out with ClassicStumbler! http://homepage.mac.com/alk/classicstumbler/ -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: OS installation without CD drive: SOS!
Looking through his crystal ball at my HD, Drew surmised: Just to make sure I've got a good picture of what you've got installed: Finder (OS 8.5) System (OS 8.5) Chooser ¥es on those OpenTransport bitspieces: AppleTalk control panel, TCP/IP control panel*, AppleShare extension, Open Transport, Open Transport ASLM Modules, OpenTpt Serial Arbitrator, OpenTptAppleTalkLib, OpenTptInternetLib*, OpenTransportLib, File Sharing control panel* AppleTalk yes, TCP/IP yes (but won't need it for a serial connection and it won't open anyway); AppleShare yes (but won't open in Chooser); Open Transport as a separate entity no, and I can't find it listed that way, either in my functioning 8.6 system folder or in the 8.5 installation tome; Open Transport ASLM ditto, rest of the openTpt stuff yes, File Sharing control panel yes (but it still demands AppearanceLib even though by now I've installed the Appearance CP (the only Appearance file in the Tome). Other Extensions: Serial (Built-in), Shared Library Manager*, Shared Library Manager PPC*, EtherTalk Phase 2** All these extensions yes except the EtherTalk (having given up on making the ethernet connection work and settling for LocalTalk on the serial cable (if only!) Farallon drivers They're GV drivers and not yet installed for the reason given above plus their bombing out the computer. Tee hee, I never thought that this was a good idea! ;-) Needer needer needer! Told you so. Heh... Okay, rub it in! *I* remember you were agin it even if nobody else's memory goes back that far (more than a month, geologic time by internet standards)! A possibility: could the refusal of all the network-connected stuff be due to the basic Open Transport being normally built into OS 8.5, but missing in this case because it's such a stripped-down system? Perhaps that's the problem with Appearance too: the extension is supposed to be in the system file itself but is not? BTW I also installed the System Resources file from the installation tome on the CD -- makes no difference. And Victoria -- thanks for the info on installing via SCSI disk mode, but I don't have one of those cables either. But getting one would certainly be the cheapest way out of this morass if there's no way to install over a network. With fervent gratitude (even though nothing's working), Victoria -- PowerBooks is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html PowerBooks list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/powerbooks.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/powerbooks%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
