Re: PB100 Screen

[Beniamino Cenci Goga]

I did go through and reheat all the solder points that looked safe 
do do so :) on one of my pb100's, to no avail.


The point is that we should find a scheme of the logic board to 
understand the situation better.


I will keep investigating.

Ben

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Re: PB100 Screen

[Brian McEwen]

I did go through and reheat all the solder points that looked safe do  
do so :) on one of my pb100's, to no avail.


Shipping one across the country did resurrect it for a few months, so  
it could be a simple hot point/ loose connection thing.


Pack it in a box, UPS ground from Seattle to Oklahoma, may be the  
hard way to get a temp fix :)


B




On Jul 28, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Robert Little wrote:


I was the guy who posted on the caps, and to be
honest, I gleaned that from Applefritter (plus another
site; don't remember which). To be honest, just not
too sure.
We may need to look at the logicboard carefully and
see if anything may have become unseated or looks odd
(easy task... yeah, right). That's the only thing I
can think of doing at this point.

Rob

--- Brian wrote:



In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-Id:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Brian McEwen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: PB 100 screen_follow up
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:57:23 -0400


On Jul 28, 2005, at 9:23 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



The list was down so we probably missed the follow


up.


I did some testing. These are the results:

 a_known good LCD + bad MoBo 1 = no backlit

  b_known good LCD + bad MoBo 2 = no desktop  &


contrast at max level



 c_known good LCD + bad MoBo 3 = the PB starts up


as soon the


adaptor is plugged and then have the symptoms of


MoBo 2.



Is there anything we can do on these aging MoBos?




That's what I saw with my bad PB100 testing.  Back
when the pb100
mailing list thru Stanford? was still up, a couple
people didn't
think that was right (i.e. possible :) , but it
repeated for me and
now also for you.

The post here about the 6? 8? leaky caps in the
display is the most
definitive thing I've ever heard about it.  sorry it
doesn't track to
the display in our cases at least.

-B




Robert Little
Astronomy & Space Artist

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
Sarah Williams
"The Old Astronomer to His Pupil"




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Re: PB100 Screen

[Robert Little]

I was the guy who posted on the caps, and to be
honest, I gleaned that from Applefritter (plus another
site; don't remember which). To be honest, just not
too sure.
We may need to look at the logicboard carefully and
see if anything may have become unseated or looks odd
(easy task... yeah, right). That's the only thing I
can think of doing at this point.

Rob

--- Brian wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Message-Id:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> From: Brian McEwen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: PB 100 screen_follow up
> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:57:23 -0400
> 
> 
> On Jul 28, 2005, at 9:23 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > The list was down so we probably missed the follow
> up.
> > I did some testing. These are the results:
> >
> >  a_known good LCD + bad MoBo 1 = no backlit
> >
> >   b_known good LCD + bad MoBo 2 = no desktop  &
> contrast at max level
> >
> >  c_known good LCD + bad MoBo 3 = the PB starts up
> as soon the  
> > adaptor is plugged and then have the symptoms of
> MoBo 2.
> >
> > Is there anything we can do on these aging MoBos?
> >
> 
> That's what I saw with my bad PB100 testing.  Back
> when the pb100  
> mailing list thru Stanford? was still up, a couple
> people didn't  
> think that was right (i.e. possible :) , but it
> repeated for me and  
> now also for you.
> 
> The post here about the 6? 8? leaky caps in the
> display is the most  
> definitive thing I've ever heard about it.  sorry it
> doesn't track to  
> the display in our cases at least.
> 
> -B


Robert Little
Astronomy & Space Artist

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
Sarah Williams
"The Old Astronomer to His Pupil"




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Re: PB100 screen

[Robert Little]

Ben wrote -

> Do they age with use, or simply age as humans, even
> if they do nothing?
> 
> This specific PB 100 has been used intensively for
> 4-5 years 
> (1992-1996) then it was replaced by newer models and
> I just switch it 
> on once every other month.
> 
> In the last 8 months it has been continuously
> plugged.
> 
> BTW. I have a spare LCD with the whole thing so will
> try to see.
> 
> Ben

Let me try this again (got bounced)...
>From what I've found, most of the screen problems
associated with the PB100 have to do with those bad
caps... but even the sources I've found are
inconclusive at best. I have yet to actually read of
an instance where replacing the capacitors has been
done; either they've done it and had a modicum of
success and simply haven't posted the data or they
haven't, most likely.
Why these things deteriorate is beyond me. The one I
was gifted with had sat in storage for a number of
years. The owner assured me that it had indeed worked
before it was packed away. Now, it doesn't. I removed
the screen, and sure enough, the capacitors had
leaked. The way you can determine this, by the way, is
to take the screen out, flip it around and look for
the two rows of little tiny black cylinders, four per
row. Look at the board beneath them. Does it look like
there's an oily residue on it? If so, they leaked.
This is where it gets puzzling. As we've read, there
have been PB100 users who've managed to acquire
replacement screens and have had the same run of luck;
even right out of the box, they are dark. This has led
some of them to assume that there is a problem on the
logicboard end of the computer. They may be right. So
far, though, everything I've read points to those
pesky capacitors. One person reported that washing the
board helped. I tried to contact them, they never
responded, so please, dear citizens, do not try that
at home. 
I can't help but feel that somewhere in some long lost
TIL there's info about this. Surely, our friends at
Cupertino had to get some complaints. Of course, since
the machine is no longer supported, that may be moot.
When I find the courage (and the parts), I'll try this
and share the experience with my friends here.
Meantime, try that replacement screen, see if perhaps
it's managed to avoid this bug.

Rob

Robert Little
Astronomy & Space Artist

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
Sarah Williams
"The Old Astronomer to His Pupil"



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Re: PB100 screen

[Beniamino Cenci Goga]

This is not just one but possibly eight components
that have failed; there are eight electrolytic
capacitors on the back of the screen that age and
leak, and once they do, you get the dark screen. I
have a 100 in the same predicament, and based upon my
digging, this seems to be the fate of most of them;
the screens age and simply stop working.


Do they age with use, or simply age as humans, even if they do nothing?

This specific PB 100 has been used intensively for 4-5 years 
(1992-1996) then it was replaced by newer models and I just switch it 
on once every other month.


In the last 8 months it has been continuously plugged.

BTW. I have a spare LCD with the whole thing so will try to see.

Ben

PS. regarding humans, at my lab I have a couple of exemplars: that 
have done nothing for the whole life and actually they look pretty 
old...  I hope the capacitors age faster with use, although I guess 
they more similar to humans than other electronic components...


Ben

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Re: PB100 screen

[Brian McEwen]

On Jul 18, 2005, at 7:52 AM, Robert Little wrote:


This is not just one but possibly eight components
that have failed; there are eight electrolytic
capacitors on the back of the screen that age and
leak, and once they do, you get the dark screen. I
have a 100 in the same predicament, and based upon my
digging, this seems to be the fate of most of them;
the screens age and simply stop working.
Replacing the caps shouldn't be that hard, but getting
some of the exact value is. They are 5v 33uF,
poloarized electrolytics. Mouser has them at a higher
voltage, 16v, but I haven't tried it yet. In fact,
I've not met anyone who has.
Should note that Sun Remarketing had PB100 screens for
a while.

Rob



They are on the back of the screen itself, then, not on the inverter  
or other control board (I forget what exactly is in there)?


B




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Re: PB100 screen

[Robert Little]

Ben wrote...
> Suddenly the screen of this PB 100 stopped working.
> 
> The PB 100 completes the boot either from the HD or
> the floppy, but 
> on the LCD there is nothing, just the backlight ring
> works, while the 
> contrast does not change anything.
> 
> Ideas?

This is not just one but possibly eight components
that have failed; there are eight electrolytic
capacitors on the back of the screen that age and
leak, and once they do, you get the dark screen. I
have a 100 in the same predicament, and based upon my
digging, this seems to be the fate of most of them;
the screens age and simply stop working.
Replacing the caps shouldn't be that hard, but getting
some of the exact value is. They are 5v 33uF,
poloarized electrolytics. Mouser has them at a higher
voltage, 16v, but I haven't tried it yet. In fact,
I've not met anyone who has.
Should note that Sun Remarketing had PB100 screens for
a while.

Rob

Robert Little
Astronomy & Space Artist

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
Sarah Williams
"The Old Astronomer to His Pupil"

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