Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-08 Thread Ted Roche 
On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Kurt Wendt  wrote:
> Gene - agreed. Although, now according to Ted - we are NOT so Unusual!
> :-)

I think I am being misquoted out of context!

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RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-08 Thread Kurt Wendt 
Gene - agreed. Although, now according to Ted - we are NOT so Unusual!
:-)

Regards,
Kurt Wendt
Senior Systems Analyst 


Tel. +1-212-747-9100
www.GlobeTax.com


-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Gene 
Wirchenko
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2016 4:16 PM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

At 11:30 2016-11-04, Ted Roche <tedro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt <kurt_we...@globetax.com> wrote:

[snip]

> > Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't
> used on the various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system
> - where they guy had created Classes - and I used his existing classes 
> to create new screens. But, that's about it...
>
>That's the general consensus, it seems.

   Interesting.  At various times, there has been a lot of talk about 
frameworks.  I got to feeling that I was unusual in not using one.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread Fletcher Johnson 
Ted,

I taught a lot of classes on development and I often built simple frameworks
in the course to demonstrate the power of OOP (and of frameworks).  Over
time, this led to the development of a fairly useful framework that I would
use for projects.  But I also used a few of the others you mentioned for
various projects (usually when they were adopted before I became involved.)

My key guideline was that it was almost always more effective to use a
framework than not (unless you used a framework that required you to do
things in a way you didn't want to do them and ended up with a quagmire)


Now that I am using C#, I tend to use the CODE Framework that Markus
Egger/EPS has published (for free.)  I really like that he has developed it
taking into account many of the objections that we in the VFP community had
when framework discussions were big.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth...

Fletcher

Fletcher Johnson
fletchersjohn...@yahoo.com
LinkedIn.com/in/FletcherJohnson
beknown.com/FletcherJohnson
twitter.com/fletcherJ
strava.com/athletes/fletcherjohnson
408-946-0960 - work
408-781-2345 - cell

-Original Message-
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2016 7:30 AM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

I've been an advocate for frameworks since I read the original Codebook
book, sitting in a parking lot in Cambridge (our fair city), Massachusetts.

Imagine starting an application and not having to worry about how to get the
menu working (Help, About, Copy/Cut/Paste, Print settings) and getting basic
dialogs for things like managing reports, managing state between multiple
non-modal forms, a rational (usually!) set of strategies for data handling,
locking, conflict resolution, primary key generation, relational integrity,
grids on tabbed pageframes, etc.

I think frameworks are a great tool for fast startups, well-documented base
classes, and handy utilities. Please feel free to disagree.

In the 90's I was the manager for a group of developers and we worked as
"experts" with clients with pre-existing apps, or designed and developed
apps on our own. As such we got a lot of exposure to most of the frameworks.
Drew Speedie (RIP!) started MaxFrame, now "Professional" while working as
tech editor on Hacker's Guide, and I was an early and eager beta-tester,
also shipping one of the first client-server MaxFrame apps. We worked with
Visual Extend and with Mere Mortals and others. Sadly, I never got to work
with FoxExpress, although I have the greatest of respect for Mike and Toni's
knowledge and skills.

So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?

__ Built my own

__ Whatever the client runs

__ Codebook

__ COMCodebook

__ MaxFrame Professional

__ Visual Express

__ Visual Extend

__ Mere Mortals

__ VFP Foundation Classes

__ Visual ProMatrix

__ Mere Mortals

__ Other (please specify)

__ All of the Above

--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread Gene Wirchenko 

At 07:40 2016-11-07, Dave Crozier  wrote:
Frameworks are ok but only when you want to do the things that the 
framework allows.


 And at that point, you may be so deep in that it is made 
difficult to break out.


 This applies more generally to the approach one takes to one's 
app.  Sometimes, I have had to recode sections of code when my boss 
changed the rules that I was counting on.


I also find that a set of classes, well written and tested are the 
best way to generate an application and they are easily 
updateable/modified using either a bae class update or using subclassing.


 Is this a framework?  In a way, I have a framework of my own.

[snipped previous]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread Gene Wirchenko 

At 11:30 2016-11-04, Ted Roche  wrote:

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt  wrote:


[snip]

> Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't 
used on the various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system 
- where they guy had created Classes - and I used his existing 
classes to create new screens. But, that's about it...


That's the general consensus, it seems.


  Interesting.  At various times, there has been a lot of talk 
about frameworks.  I got to feeling that I was unusual in not using one.


Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


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RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread John Weller 
+1

John Weller
01380 723235
07976 393631


> -Original Message-
> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of
> Jean Laeremans
> Sent: 07 November 2016 15:57
> To: profoxt...@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?
> 
> +1
> 
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Dave Crozier <da...@flexipol.co.uk>
> wrote:
> 
> > Frameworks are ok but only when you want to do the things that the
> > framework allows.
> >
> > I also find that a set of classes, well written and tested are the
> > best way to generate an application and they are easily
> > updateable/modified using either a bae class update or using
subclassing.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kurt
> Wendt
> > Sent: 07 November 2016 15:25
> > To: profox@leafe.com
> > Subject: RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?
> >
> > Hey Ted - I hear ya - as I can also type fast. Learned touch-typing
> > back in my Jr. year in high school - and it's a skill I have kept
> > using ever since way back then. Also - glad to know I'm within the
> > avg. re:Frameworks usage!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kurt Wendt
> > Senior Systems Analyst
> >
> >
> > Tel. +1-212-747-9100
> > www.GlobeTax.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of
> > Ted Roche
> > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:31 PM
> > To: profoxt...@leafe.com
> > Subject: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt <kurt_we...@globetax.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ted - You must have a Lot of extra time on your hands - what with
> > creating all these Polls!
> >
> > I type fast. And it's not like I haven't thought about this stuff for
> > 25 years.
> >
> > And my commute averages around zero minutes.
> >
> > > Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't
> > > used
> > on the various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system - where
> > they guy had created Classes - and I used his existing classes to
> > create new screens. But, that's about it...
> >
> > That's the general consensus, it seems.
> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread José Enrique Llopis 


Build Your Own Framework with Visual FoxPro
Ken Chazotte
Hentzenwerke Publishing

Fantastic book, helps me a lot


Jose Enrique Llopis
www.multilinkcrm.com



-Mensaje original-
De: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] En nombre de Ajit Abraham
Enviado el: lunes, 07 de noviembre de 2016 18:00
Para: profox@leafe.com
Asunto: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

Build my own set of custom classes (not worthy of calling a 'framework' 
) but works for all my in-house projects.

Spend lot of time building a Data layer on the premise that I will 
change the backend to mysql or mssql from vfp tables at some time in the 
future.

Sadly, that is not going to happen, as the the 'frontend' for the users 
has changed to browsers and mobile.

Currently experimenting on a free utility build by Dicky Suryadi 
(dotnetify.net) where I can control the frontend browser with C# code 
from the backend - instead of messing with too much of frontend 
javascript or the traditional post/get requests.
This utility cleverly uses SignalR and knockout.js to achieve its 
results and there is no need to know the workings of either technology 
(in most cases) when working with dotnet.

Ajit Abraham



On 07-Nov-16 6:25 PM, Kurt Wendt wrote:
> Hey Ted - I hear ya - as I can also type fast. Learned touch-typing back
in my Jr. year in high school - and it's a skill I have kept using ever
since way back then. Also - glad to know I'm within the avg. re:Frameworks
usage!
>
> Regards,
> Kurt Wendt
> Senior Systems Analyst
>
>
> Tel. +1-212-747-9100
> www.GlobeTax.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Roche
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:31 PM
> To: profoxt...@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt <kurt_we...@globetax.com>
wrote:
>
>> Ted - You must have a Lot of extra time on your hands - what with
creating all these Polls!
> I type fast. And it's not like I haven't thought about this stuff for 25
years.
>
> And my commute averages around zero minutes.
>
>> Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't used on
the various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system - where they guy
had created Classes - and I used his existing classes to create new screens.
But, that's about it...
> That's the general consensus, it seems.
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread Stephen Russell 
On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Dave Crozier  wrote:

>
> I also find that a set of classes, well written and tested are the best
> way to generate an application and they are easily updateable/modified
> using either a bae class update or using subclassing.
> -


Isn't that what a framework is?


-- 
Stephen Russell
Sr. Analyst
Ring Container Technology
Oakland TN

901.246-0159 cell


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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread Ted Roche 
On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 10:40 AM, Dave Crozier  wrote:
> Frameworks are ok but only when you want to do the things that the framework 
> allows.

What was it you wanted to do that the framework wouldn't?

> I also find that a set of classes, well written and tested are the best way 
> to generate an application and they are easily updateable/modified using 
> either a bae class update or using subclassing.

Pretty much my definition of a framework.

-- 
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

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to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread Ajit Abraham 
Build my own set of custom classes (not worthy of calling a 'framework' 
) but works for all my in-house projects.


Spend lot of time building a Data layer on the premise that I will 
change the backend to mysql or mssql from vfp tables at some time in the 
future.


Sadly, that is not going to happen, as the the 'frontend' for the users 
has changed to browsers and mobile.


Currently experimenting on a free utility build by Dicky Suryadi 
(dotnetify.net) where I can control the frontend browser with C# code 
from the backend - instead of messing with too much of frontend 
javascript or the traditional post/get requests.
This utility cleverly uses SignalR and knockout.js to achieve its 
results and there is no need to know the workings of either technology 
(in most cases) when working with dotnet.


Ajit Abraham



On 07-Nov-16 6:25 PM, Kurt Wendt wrote:

Hey Ted - I hear ya - as I can also type fast. Learned touch-typing back in my 
Jr. year in high school - and it's a skill I have kept using ever since way 
back then. Also - glad to know I'm within the avg. re:Frameworks usage!

Regards,
Kurt Wendt
Senior Systems Analyst


Tel. +1-212-747-9100
www.GlobeTax.com


-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:31 PM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt <kurt_we...@globetax.com> wrote:


Ted - You must have a Lot of extra time on your hands - what with creating all 
these Polls!

I type fast. And it's not like I haven't thought about this stuff for 25 years.

And my commute averages around zero minutes.


Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't used on the 
various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system - where they guy had 
created Classes - and I used his existing classes to create new screens. But, 
that's about it...

That's the general consensus, it seems.


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread José Enrique Llopis 
++1

-Mensaje original-
De: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] En nombre de Jean Laeremans
Enviado el: lunes, 07 de noviembre de 2016 16:57
Para: ProFox Email List
Asunto: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

+1

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Dave Crozier <da...@flexipol.co.uk> wrote:

> Frameworks are ok but only when you want to do the things that the
> framework allows.
>
> I also find that a set of classes, well written and tested are the best
> way to generate an application and they are easily updateable/modified
> using either a bae class update or using subclassing.
>
> Dave
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Wendt
> Sent: 07 November 2016 15:25
> To: profox@leafe.com
> Subject: RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?
>
> Hey Ted - I hear ya - as I can also type fast. Learned touch-typing back
> in my Jr. year in high school - and it's a skill I have kept using ever
> since way back then. Also - glad to know I'm within the avg. re:Frameworks
> usage!
>
> Regards,
> Kurt Wendt
> Senior Systems Analyst
>
>
> Tel. +1-212-747-9100
> www.GlobeTax.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted
> Roche
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:31 PM
> To: profoxt...@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt <kurt_we...@globetax.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ted - You must have a Lot of extra time on your hands - what with
> creating all these Polls!
>
> I type fast. And it's not like I haven't thought about this stuff for 25
> years.
>
> And my commute averages around zero minutes.
>
> > Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't used
> on the various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system - where
they
> guy had created Classes - and I used his existing classes to create new
> screens. But, that's about it...
>
> That's the general consensus, it seems.
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread Jean Laeremans 
+1

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Dave Crozier <da...@flexipol.co.uk> wrote:

> Frameworks are ok but only when you want to do the things that the
> framework allows.
>
> I also find that a set of classes, well written and tested are the best
> way to generate an application and they are easily updateable/modified
> using either a bae class update or using subclassing.
>
> Dave
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Wendt
> Sent: 07 November 2016 15:25
> To: profox@leafe.com
> Subject: RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?
>
> Hey Ted - I hear ya - as I can also type fast. Learned touch-typing back
> in my Jr. year in high school - and it's a skill I have kept using ever
> since way back then. Also - glad to know I'm within the avg. re:Frameworks
> usage!
>
> Regards,
> Kurt Wendt
> Senior Systems Analyst
>
>
> Tel. +1-212-747-9100
> www.GlobeTax.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted
> Roche
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:31 PM
> To: profoxt...@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt <kurt_we...@globetax.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ted - You must have a Lot of extra time on your hands - what with
> creating all these Polls!
>
> I type fast. And it's not like I haven't thought about this stuff for 25
> years.
>
> And my commute averages around zero minutes.
>
> > Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't used
> on the various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system - where they
> guy had created Classes - and I used his existing classes to create new
> screens. But, that's about it...
>
> That's the general consensus, it seems.
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread Dave Crozier 
Frameworks are ok but only when you want to do the things that the framework 
allows. 

I also find that a set of classes, well written and tested are the best way to 
generate an application and they are easily updateable/modified using either a 
bae class update or using subclassing.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Wendt
Sent: 07 November 2016 15:25
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

Hey Ted - I hear ya - as I can also type fast. Learned touch-typing back in my 
Jr. year in high school - and it's a skill I have kept using ever since way 
back then. Also - glad to know I'm within the avg. re:Frameworks usage!

Regards,
Kurt Wendt
Senior Systems Analyst 


Tel. +1-212-747-9100
www.GlobeTax.com


-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:31 PM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt <kurt_we...@globetax.com> wrote:

> Ted - You must have a Lot of extra time on your hands - what with creating 
> all these Polls!

I type fast. And it's not like I haven't thought about this stuff for 25 years.

And my commute averages around zero minutes.

> Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't used on the 
> various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system - where they guy had 
> created Classes - and I used his existing classes to create new screens. But, 
> that's about it...

That's the general consensus, it seems.

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-07 Thread Kurt Wendt 
Hey Ted - I hear ya - as I can also type fast. Learned touch-typing back in my 
Jr. year in high school - and it's a skill I have kept using ever since way 
back then. Also - glad to know I'm within the avg. re:Frameworks usage!

Regards,
Kurt Wendt
Senior Systems Analyst 


Tel. +1-212-747-9100
www.GlobeTax.com


-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:31 PM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt <kurt_we...@globetax.com> wrote:

> Ted - You must have a Lot of extra time on your hands - what with creating 
> all these Polls!

I type fast. And it's not like I haven't thought about this stuff for 25 years.

And my commute averages around zero minutes.

> Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't used on the 
> various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system - where they guy had 
> created Classes - and I used his existing classes to create new screens. But, 
> that's about it...

That's the general consensus, it seems.

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-06 Thread Lew Schwartz 
Me too.


-Lew Schwartz

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:41 AM, Laurie Alvey  wrote:

> Built my own. Couldn't afford the commercial ones and no client was willing
> to pay.
>
> Laurie
>
> On 4 November 2016 at 14:29, Ted Roche  wrote:
>
> > I've been an advocate for frameworks since I read the original
> > Codebook book, sitting in a parking lot in Cambridge (our fair city),
> > Massachusetts.
> >
> > Imagine starting an application and not having to worry about how to
> > get the menu working (Help, About, Copy/Cut/Paste, Print settings) and
> > getting basic dialogs for things like managing reports, managing state
> > between multiple non-modal forms, a rational (usually!) set of
> > strategies for data handling, locking, conflict resolution, primary
> > key generation, relational integrity, grids on tabbed pageframes, etc.
> >
> > I think frameworks are a great tool for fast startups, well-documented
> > base classes, and handy utilities. Please feel free to disagree.
> >
> > In the 90's I was the manager for a group of developers and we worked
> > as "experts" with clients with pre-existing apps, or designed and
> > developed apps on our own. As such we got a lot of exposure to most of
> > the frameworks. Drew Speedie (RIP!) started MaxFrame, now
> > "Professional" while working as tech editor on Hacker's Guide, and I
> > was an early and eager beta-tester, also shipping one of the first
> > client-server MaxFrame apps. We worked with Visual Extend and with
> > Mere Mortals and others. Sadly, I never got to work with FoxExpress,
> > although I have the greatest of respect for Mike and Toni's knowledge
> > and skills.
> >
> > So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?
> >
> > __ Built my own
> >
> > __ Whatever the client runs
> >
> > __ Codebook
> >
> > __ COMCodebook
> >
> > __ MaxFrame Professional
> >
> > __ Visual Express
> >
> > __ Visual Extend
> >
> > __ Mere Mortals
> >
> > __ VFP Foundation Classes
> >
> > __ Visual ProMatrix
> >
> > __ Mere Mortals
> >
> > __ Other (please specify)
> >
> > __ All of the Above
> >
> > --
> > Ted Roche
> > Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
> > http://www.tedroche.com
> >
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-06 Thread Laurie Alvey 
Thanks Ed, didn't know that.

Laurie

On 5 November 2016 at 13:21, Edward Leafe  wrote:

> On Nov 4, 2016, at 9:41 AM, Laurie Alvey  wrote:
>
> > Built my own. Couldn't afford the commercial ones and no client was
> willing
> > to pay.
>
> Codebook was (still is) free.
>
> -- Ed Leafe
>
>
>
>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-05 Thread Edward Leafe 
On Nov 4, 2016, at 9:41 AM, Laurie Alvey  wrote:

> Built my own. Couldn't afford the commercial ones and no client was willing
> to pay.

Codebook was (still is) free.

-- Ed Leafe






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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-05 Thread Man-wai Chang 
Actually, it is just a very simple one, so simple that I dunno whether
it's a framework or not. :)

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:29 PM, Ted Roche  wrote:
> So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?

_x_ Built my own

-- 
 .~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY!
/ v \ 64-bit Ubuntu 9.10 (Linux kernel 2.6.39.3)
/( _ )\ http://sites.google.com/site/changmw
^ ^ May the Force and farces be with you!

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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread mbsoftwaresolutions 

On 2016-11-04 18:36, Bill Anderson wrote:
To me this comes off a bit of "Floor Wax/Dessert Topping", except for 
one important feature -- it works.



BWAHAHAHAHA   LOVE THAT SNL SKIT!!!

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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread mbsoftwaresolutions 

On 2016-11-04 10:29, Ted Roche wrote:

So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?

__ Built my own



Rolled my own years ago.  Built on the logical n-tier concept.  Been 
serving MBSS very well since 2004!


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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread Bill Anderson 
Ted,

Fox Express is my preferred framework. Grokking this framework is a great
educational experience.

I end up on a lot of VMP projects, so I know it's a popular framework,
probably the most popular VFP framework out there. I think of it as a
hybrid framework, a mix of RAD and OO. To me this comes off a bit of "Floor
Wax/Dessert Topping", except for one important feature -- it works.

Bill Anderson

On Friday, November 4, 2016, Ted Roche  wrote:

> I've been an advocate for frameworks since I read the original
> Codebook book, sitting in a parking lot in Cambridge (our fair city),
> Massachusetts.
>
> Imagine starting an application and not having to worry about how to
> get the menu working (Help, About, Copy/Cut/Paste, Print settings) and
> getting basic dialogs for things like managing reports, managing state
> between multiple non-modal forms, a rational (usually!) set of
> strategies for data handling, locking, conflict resolution, primary
> key generation, relational integrity, grids on tabbed pageframes, etc.
>
> I think frameworks are a great tool for fast startups, well-documented
> base classes, and handy utilities. Please feel free to disagree.
>
> In the 90's I was the manager for a group of developers and we worked
> as "experts" with clients with pre-existing apps, or designed and
> developed apps on our own. As such we got a lot of exposure to most of
> the frameworks. Drew Speedie (RIP!) started MaxFrame, now
> "Professional" while working as tech editor on Hacker's Guide, and I
> was an early and eager beta-tester, also shipping one of the first
> client-server MaxFrame apps. We worked with Visual Extend and with
> Mere Mortals and others. Sadly, I never got to work with FoxExpress,
> although I have the greatest of respect for Mike and Toni's knowledge
> and skills.
>
> So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?
>
> __ Built my own
>
> __ Whatever the client runs
>
> __ Codebook
>
> __ COMCodebook
>
> __ MaxFrame Professional
>
> __ Visual Express
>
> __ Visual Extend
>
> __ Mere Mortals
>
> __ VFP Foundation Classes
>
> __ Visual ProMatrix
>
> __ Mere Mortals
>
> __ Other (please specify)
>
> __ All of the Above
>
> --
> Ted Roche
> Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
> http://www.tedroche.com
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread Kevin J Cully 
I've done some work with Codebook, but by far I've done the most work with the 
West-Wind Web Connection framework.  I've even worked some of the classes into 
my desktop applications.  Light weight framework that just clicked with the way 
I thought.

I've had many many clients buy that framework for the projects that I've worked 
on.

-Kevin

-Original Message-
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 10:30 AM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?


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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread Ted Roche 
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kurt Wendt  wrote:

> Ted - You must have a Lot of extra time on your hands - what with creating 
> all these Polls!

I type fast. And it's not like I haven't thought about this stuff for 25 years.

And my commute averages around zero minutes.

> Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't used on the 
> various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system - where they guy had 
> created Classes - and I used his existing classes to create new screens. But, 
> that's about it...

That's the general consensus, it seems.

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RE: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread Kurt Wendt 
Ted - You must have a Lot of extra time on your hands - what with creating all 
these Polls!

Myself - never really worked within Frameworks. They just weren't used on the 
various jobs I worked at. I did work on this one system - where they guy had 
created Classes - and I used his existing classes to create new screens. But, 
that's about it...

Regards,
Kurt Wendt
Senior Systems Analyst 


Tel. +1-212-747-9100
www.GlobeTax.com


-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 10:30 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

I've been an advocate for frameworks since I read the original Codebook book, 
sitting in a parking lot in Cambridge (our fair city), Massachusetts.

Imagine starting an application and not having to worry about how to get the 
menu working (Help, About, Copy/Cut/Paste, Print settings) and getting basic 
dialogs for things like managing reports, managing state between multiple 
non-modal forms, a rational (usually!) set of strategies for data handling, 
locking, conflict resolution, primary key generation, relational integrity, 
grids on tabbed pageframes, etc.

I think frameworks are a great tool for fast startups, well-documented base 
classes, and handy utilities. Please feel free to disagree.

In the 90's I was the manager for a group of developers and we worked as 
"experts" with clients with pre-existing apps, or designed and developed apps 
on our own. As such we got a lot of exposure to most of the frameworks. Drew 
Speedie (RIP!) started MaxFrame, now "Professional" while working as tech 
editor on Hacker's Guide, and I was an early and eager beta-tester, also 
shipping one of the first client-server MaxFrame apps. We worked with Visual 
Extend and with Mere Mortals and others. Sadly, I never got to work with 
FoxExpress, although I have the greatest of respect for Mike and Toni's 
knowledge and skills.

So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?

__ Built my own

__ Whatever the client runs

__ Codebook

__ COMCodebook

__ MaxFrame Professional

__ Visual Express

__ Visual Extend

__ Mere Mortals

__ VFP Foundation Classes

__ Visual ProMatrix

__ Mere Mortals

__ Other (please specify)

__ All of the Above

--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread Gojko B. 

Codemine

Gojko B.


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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread Gojko B. 

Codemine

Gojko B.
At 15:29 4.11.2016, you wrote:

I've been an advocate for frameworks since I read the original
Codebook book, sitting in a parking lot in Cambridge (our fair city),
Massachusetts.

Imagine starting an application and not having to worry about how to
get the menu working (Help, About, Copy/Cut/Paste, Print settings) and
getting basic dialogs for things like managing reports, managing state
between multiple non-modal forms, a rational (usually!) set of
strategies for data handling, locking, conflict resolution, primary
key generation, relational integrity, grids on tabbed pageframes, etc.

I think frameworks are a great tool for fast startups, well-documented
base classes, and handy utilities. Please feel free to disagree.

In the 90's I was the manager for a group of developers and we worked
as "experts" with clients with pre-existing apps, or designed and
developed apps on our own. As such we got a lot of exposure to most of
the frameworks. Drew Speedie (RIP!) started MaxFrame, now
"Professional" while working as tech editor on Hacker's Guide, and I
was an early and eager beta-tester, also shipping one of the first
client-server MaxFrame apps. We worked with Visual Extend and with
Mere Mortals and others. Sadly, I never got to work with FoxExpress,
although I have the greatest of respect for Mike and Toni's knowledge
and skills.

So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?

__ Built my own

__ Whatever the client runs

__ Codebook

__ COMCodebook

__ MaxFrame Professional

__ Visual Express

__ Visual Extend

__ Mere Mortals

__ VFP Foundation Classes

__ Visual ProMatrix

__ Mere Mortals

__ Other (please specify)

__ All of the Above

--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread Gene Wirchenko 

At 07:29 2016-11-04, Ted Roche  wrote:

[snip]


So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?

__ Built my own


 It is this or nothing.

 My boss has a way of asking for things that break my 
paradigm.  I would rather be trying to rework my code than someone else's.


 Fortunately, he has not done this for several years now, but 
when the app was in busy development, there were some interesting times.


[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


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Re: Friday Poll: What framework(s) do you use?

2016-11-04 Thread Laurie Alvey 
Built my own. Couldn't afford the commercial ones and no client was willing
to pay.

Laurie

On 4 November 2016 at 14:29, Ted Roche  wrote:

> I've been an advocate for frameworks since I read the original
> Codebook book, sitting in a parking lot in Cambridge (our fair city),
> Massachusetts.
>
> Imagine starting an application and not having to worry about how to
> get the menu working (Help, About, Copy/Cut/Paste, Print settings) and
> getting basic dialogs for things like managing reports, managing state
> between multiple non-modal forms, a rational (usually!) set of
> strategies for data handling, locking, conflict resolution, primary
> key generation, relational integrity, grids on tabbed pageframes, etc.
>
> I think frameworks are a great tool for fast startups, well-documented
> base classes, and handy utilities. Please feel free to disagree.
>
> In the 90's I was the manager for a group of developers and we worked
> as "experts" with clients with pre-existing apps, or designed and
> developed apps on our own. As such we got a lot of exposure to most of
> the frameworks. Drew Speedie (RIP!) started MaxFrame, now
> "Professional" while working as tech editor on Hacker's Guide, and I
> was an early and eager beta-tester, also shipping one of the first
> client-server MaxFrame apps. We worked with Visual Extend and with
> Mere Mortals and others. Sadly, I never got to work with FoxExpress,
> although I have the greatest of respect for Mike and Toni's knowledge
> and skills.
>
> So, what framework(s) do you work with, and why (or why not)?
>
> __ Built my own
>
> __ Whatever the client runs
>
> __ Codebook
>
> __ COMCodebook
>
> __ MaxFrame Professional
>
> __ Visual Express
>
> __ Visual Extend
>
> __ Mere Mortals
>
> __ VFP Foundation Classes
>
> __ Visual ProMatrix
>
> __ Mere Mortals
>
> __ Other (please specify)
>
> __ All of the Above
>
> --
> Ted Roche
> Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
> http://www.tedroche.com
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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