Re: Foxpro going opensource
> I haven't seen any mention here about this: > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2105307,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03119TX1K000 > 0594 Yes, it was mentioned. It's blatantly false. The editor apparently can't read material released by Microsoft. -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
It's been mentioned, it's the Sedna extensions not the core product. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
On Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:18 AM Derek Kalweit wrote: >Yes, it was mentioned. It's blatantly false. The editor apparently can't read material >released by Microsoft. Thanks Derek and Alan for updating me on this issue! I was out of town on Monday and missed it. David L. Crooks ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
On 3/22/07, David Crooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks Derek and Alan for updating me on this issue! I was out of town > on Monday and missed it. > Here's the entire thread: http://leafe.com/archives/showFullThd/344873 -- Ted Roche Ted Roche & Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
The author should be working at the NY Times. --- Ted Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3/22/07, David Crooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Thanks Derek and Alan for updating me on this > issue! I was out of town > > on Monday and missed it. > > > > Here's the entire thread: > > http://leafe.com/archives/showFullThd/344873 > > -- > Ted Roche > Ted Roche & Associates, LLC > http://www.tedroche.com > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are the opinions of the author, and do not > constitute legal or medical advice. This statement > is added to the messages for those lawyers who are > too stupid to see the obvious. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
These reporters, ah David ?
Ain't it fun ?
Basically it was a misquote of a misquote, between zdnet and eweek, then
the PodCasters picked it up , thinking both 'authors' had it right, and
understood what Sedna is and that YAG's quotes were accurately re-used.
Sigh.
There are additions to VFP on CodePlex that live in the VFPx and VFPy
codebase camps. This stuff is being released originally as 'shared
source' and now that term 'open-source' is being used.
The EXE that is Sedna , that ADD ON program requiring the VFP9 runtime
modules, will be released free of charge.
The SOURCE code to Sedna, on the otherhand, is still questionable as to
whether it will be released.
I THINK it will be released, but even some of YAG's comments on his blog
seemed a bit obfuscated.
Maybe I am too used to interpreting 'passive voice' statements from C-SPAN.
Hopefully, YAG will clarify again and soon about the source code for Sedna.
You can draw your own conclusions after a read here?
http://blogs.msdn.com/yag/
Mondo Regards [Bill]
--
William Sanders / efGroup {rmv the DOT BOB to reply}
VFP Webhosting? You BET! -> http://efgroup.net/vfpwebhosting
Failing dotNet Project? -> http://www.dotnetconversions.com
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Re: Foxpro going opensource
On 3/23/07, William Sanders / EFG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe I am too used to interpreting 'passive voice' statements from C-SPAN. "Mistakes were made. Regrets were expressed." Michael Tiemann (RedHat): "... there is no reality to Microsoft's shared source license in the sense that, ... it's not unlike the alternative minimum tax: it is neither alternative nor minimum." http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/08/09/oscon_debate.html?page=4 -- Ted Roche Ted Roche & Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Uh, Bill... we need to clarify *your* comments now. :-) >Bill Sanders said: >The EXE that is Sedna , that ADD ON program requiring the VFP9 runtime >modules, will be released free of charge. Sedna is NOT an EXE. Sedna is a collection of classes and XBase add-ons, plus some VB .NET code that add capabilities to VFP9 without touching the "core EXE." You got it right that Sedna is an "add on" to VFP9 and that it will be released free of charge to VFP9 users. In addition, Microsoft will release Service Pack 2, which DOES touch the core bits as well as many parts of the platform, including enhancements to the report engine and report classes. Microsoft will NOT release the source to SP2 that affects the core EXE, but as has been their practice with previous releases, will provide the source for any xBase pieces that SP2 touches (XSource folder). According to the VFP9 EULA, those components can be modified and shared with the community. >The SOURCE code to Sedna, on the otherhand, is still questionable as to >whether it will be released. There is no question about the source code to Sedna. It will be released, according to YAG's public statements. It is all, after all, just add-ons to VFP9, not the core EXE. The source code for the VFP9 EXE will NOT be released. Maybe that's where the confusion came in. David Stevenson, VFP MVP http://talkingfox.blogspot.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date: 3/25/2007 11:07 AM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Out from lurkworld to ask: if I apply the Sedna and "SP2" additions (say their February renderings) to VFP9 SP1, does that require the addition of any other or additional "runtime" files that will need to be placed in the client's computer? Thanks! PabloSr - Value, above all, persons, not things! Peace. Valora, sobre todo, personas, no cosas! Paz. - <<== Much Trimed from the quoted message ==>> * -Original Message- * [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Stevenson * * >Bill Sanders said: * >The EXE that is Sedna , that ADD ON program requiring * the VFP9 runtime * >modules, will be released free of charge. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
David, I think circumstances at some point in time, say even 10 or 15 years from now, will force MS to do *something* with the source code, either sell it or put it on the public domain. A triggering event might be the 1st time a VFP application stops working after a MS OS change. We wouldn't be dead in the water because, at the very least, we'll be able to run using VM and a pre-broken copy of the OS for 'n' more years, but nevertheless such an event will force MS to do something. My guess (hope) would be for MS to sell VFP off, but if that doesn't happen, and time goes by without any other significant changes in this (xBase->VFP) area, MS will have lost interest and will just give it up to the public domain. Why that over nothing? Because sitting on it at the point would invite lawsuits from businesses who have invested in VFP products that MS will then have broken by their action. Bill > > > Uh, Bill... we need to clarify *your* comments now. :-) > > >Bill Sanders said: > >The EXE that is Sedna , that ADD ON program requiring the > VFP9 runtime > >modules, will be released free of charge. > > Sedna is NOT an EXE. Sedna is a collection of classes and > XBase add-ons, plus some VB .NET code that add capabilities > to VFP9 without touching the "core EXE." You got it right > that Sedna is an "add on" to VFP9 and that it will be > released free of charge to VFP9 users. > > In addition, Microsoft will release Service Pack 2, which > DOES touch the core bits as well as many parts of the > platform, including enhancements to the report engine and > report classes. Microsoft will NOT release the source to SP2 > that affects the core EXE, but as has been their practice > with previous releases, will provide the source for any xBase > pieces that SP2 touches (XSource folder). According to the > VFP9 EULA, those components can be modified and shared with > the community. > > >The SOURCE code to Sedna, on the otherhand, is still > questionable as to > >whether it will be released. > > There is no question about the source code to Sedna. It will > be released, according to YAG's public statements. It is all, > after all, just add-ons to VFP9, not the core EXE. The source > code for the VFP9 EXE will NOT be released. Maybe that's > where the confusion came in. > > David Stevenson, VFP MVP > http://talkingfox.blogspot.com > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release > Date: 3/25/2007 11:07 AM > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Pablo H Rivera Sr <> wrote: > Out from lurkworld to ask: if I apply the Sedna and "SP2" > additions (say their February renderings) to VFP9 SP1, does that > require the addition of any other or additional "runtime" > files that will need to be placed in the client's computer? OTTOMH .NET 2 run time. That is to utilize anything that is going to interact with SEDNA back to .NET. Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date: 3/25/2007 11:07 AM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Thanks. PabloSr - Value, above all, persons, not things! Peace. Valora, sobre todo, personas, no cosas! Paz. - * -Original Message- * [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen the Cook * * Pablo H Rivera Sr <> wrote: * > Out from lurkworld to ask: if I apply the Sedna and * "SP2" * > additions (say their February renderings) to VFP9 SP1, * does that * > require the addition of any other or additional * "runtime" * > files that will need to be placed in the client's * computer? * * OTTOMH .NET 2 run time. That is to utilize anything * that is going to * interact with SEDNA back to .NET. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Bill Arnold said: > David, I think circumstances at some point in time, say even 10 or 15 > years from now, will force MS to do *something* with the source code, > either sell it or put it on the public domain. > > A triggering event might be the 1st time a VFP application stops working > after a MS OS change. my take on recent announcements is that an OS change breaking Foxpro was one of the few things that would have ms wheel YAG and Calvin's bathchairs down to the office so they could fix it. Andrew Davies MBCS CITP - AndyD 8-)# ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. Please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] with any queries. ** ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
> > David, I think circumstances at some point in time, say even 10 or 15 > > years from now, will force MS to do *something* with the source code, > > either sell it or put it on the public domain. > > > > A triggering event might be the 1st time a VFP application stops > > working after a MS OS change. > > my take on recent announcements is that an OS change breaking > Foxpro was one of the few things that would have ms wheel YAG > and Calvin's bathchairs down to the office so they could fix it. Andy, I think whatever really does happen is well off into the future, and that MS will probably behave as you say for some time to come. Even so, MS did start a clock ticking with this announcement because they covered one base, their plan for VFP's future, but left open the question of "what to do about new and existing VFP applications over the long haul?" MS's expectation, that everyone will throw away their VFP investments and start all over again with something nowhere near as good as VFP for what it does is nuts, so it's not going to happen. Moreover, since MS is not pulling VFP9 off the shelf, in addition to existing applications still being developed, new people and applications are still coming on board. I don't have stats, but my guess is that developing countries around the world are ideal candidates for what VFP is all about, and that situation represents a tremendous growth area for a product like VFP. In short, not only do I think MS has made an ignorant and stupid decision, but they have set the stage for big time repercussions down the road. That bite could be in the form of lawsuits when MS eventually breaks running VFP applications and a real solution must be offered, or it could be in the form of a competitor whose product offers a relatively inexpensive port from VFP. In effect, MS's end-of-VFP announcement is a call to arms for competitors who have been kept at bay by the VFP team over the years. The operative points here, I think, are that VFP is very, very good at what it does; that .NET is not a suitable replacement; that the royalty-free standard for this type of language/product is a stake in the ground that MS will never remove, and that not only is there a market for VFP, but a growing one. Going back to the beginning, it was Bill Gates' opting for the Basic over the xBase approach that set this struggle in motion. That was the root bad decision out of which all this came. Now MS apparently believes it can bury that decision once and for all, but its only going to find that you can't put genies back into bottles. At this point, I don't think it's reasonable to expect MS to reverse this bad decision, but it's entirely reasonable to expect that competitors who have been held down will get stronger over the next 10 years or so. Who knows, maybe something based on Python will attract serious investment money, build a pain free porting mechanic, and take MS on. Bill > Andrew Davies MBCS CITP > - AndyD 8-)# ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> The operative points here, I think, are that VFP is very, very good at > what it does; that .NET is not a suitable replacement; that the > royalty-free standard for this type of language/product is a stake in > the ground that MS will never remove, and that not only is there a > market for VFP, but a growing one. Bill, when will you pull your head out of the sand and realize the market for VFP is shrinking, not growing? Just because you want it to grow, and just because the people that could benefit from VFP apps may grow, it doesn't mean the use of VFP is or will grow. -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
> > The operative points here, I think, are that VFP is very, very good at > > what it does; that .NET is not a suitable replacement; that the > > royalty-free standard for this type of language/product is a stake in > > the ground that MS will never remove, and that not only is there a > > market for VFP, but a growing one. > > Bill, when will you pull your head out of the sand and > realize the market for VFP is shrinking, not growing? Just > because you want it to grow, and just because the people that > could benefit from VFP apps may grow, it doesn't mean the use > of VFP is or will grow. Derek, I'm not talking so much about VFP specifically as the genre of xBase products that share these features: - RDBMS. When the day comes that RDBMS's are passé, replaced with something so good that relational doesn't make sense anymore, then I would be inclined to agree the genre is dead. - Royalty-free. Need I expound? - integrated product development system. The 10% at the top of our business can shift mindsets/languages/paradigms at will, but the majority of people struggle for years to master just one - if they can do even that. This means that most people aren't yearning for multi-product, more complicated, more expensive replacements over something simpler that works and has stood the test of time. - a core language so rich that, after a lot of years, I have yet to use every feature. There are some frustrations and limitations, but nothing that can't be fixed or improved with effort. If there were a clearly superior language/RDBMS dev system on the market, I'd have heard about it, and frankly, I would have yearned to use it, but I'm not seeing such a thing. What I do see are all the things I have yet to do, and can do, with VFP. Because MS sat on the genre (vis a vis owning it's best incarnation) for a few years, it did manage to hold it down, but it didn't kill it. The VFP team did a great job, and because other developer tool makers were led to believe that MS bought VFP to market it, thus making it too expensive to compete with, real competitors never got out of the gate. Alaska, Borland, others, were reduced by MS's clout to bit players. But now, with this announcement, I think it's fair to say the directors of these companies are going to start having dreams again. And then there's Python and Dabo, and who knows what else will emerge next? Not only does the essence of what xBase/VFP is all about still appeal to folks like us, the whole world is scurrying to catch up with the advantages of computers. There are literally billions of people out there, mostly relatively poor, with a growing appetite for machines that we take for granted. As the market extends, the favorites are going to be products that deliver the best value, and nothing on the market says "value" better then VFP (the genre). And that's just where the genre stands today. Imagine it being even better? Bill > > -- > Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Bill, YAG has been quite clear on the fact VFP will never be sold because of the Intellectual Property (IP) in VFP that is now in other MS products. He also mentioned that Microsoft will look at any severe problem in VFP discovered after VFP 9 SP2 is released and address it on a case-by-case basis. While I cannot speak for MS, I would think something breaking because of a future OS release might trigger such consideration. Rick White Light Computing, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.rickschummer.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Arnold Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Foxpro going opensource David, I think circumstances at some point in time, say even 10 or 15 years from now, will force MS to do *something* with the source code, either sell it or put it on the public domain. A triggering event might be the 1st time a VFP application stops working after a MS OS change. We wouldn't be dead in the water because, at the very least, we'll be able to run using VM and a pre-broken copy of the OS for 'n' more years, but nevertheless such an event will force MS to do something. My guess (hope) would be for MS to sell VFP off, but if that doesn't happen, and time goes by without any other significant changes in this (xBase->VFP) area, MS will have lost interest and will just give it up to the public domain. Why that over nothing? Because sitting on it at the point would invite lawsuits from businesses who have invested in VFP products that MS will then have broken by their action. Bill > > > Uh, Bill... we need to clarify *your* comments now. :-) > > >Bill Sanders said: > >The EXE that is Sedna , that ADD ON program requiring the > VFP9 runtime > >modules, will be released free of charge. > > Sedna is NOT an EXE. Sedna is a collection of classes and > XBase add-ons, plus some VB .NET code that add capabilities > to VFP9 without touching the "core EXE." You got it right > that Sedna is an "add on" to VFP9 and that it will be > released free of charge to VFP9 users. > > In addition, Microsoft will release Service Pack 2, which > DOES touch the core bits as well as many parts of the > platform, including enhancements to the report engine and > report classes. Microsoft will NOT release the source to SP2 > that affects the core EXE, but as has been their practice > with previous releases, will provide the source for any xBase > pieces that SP2 touches (XSource folder). According to the > VFP9 EULA, those components can be modified and shared with > the community. > > >The SOURCE code to Sedna, on the otherhand, is still > questionable as to > >whether it will be released. > > There is no question about the source code to Sedna. It will > be released, according to YAG's public statements. It is all, > after all, just add-ons to VFP9, not the core EXE. The source > code for the VFP9 EXE will NOT be released. Maybe that's > where the confusion came in. > > David Stevenson, VFP MVP > http://talkingfox.blogspot.com > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release > Date: 3/25/2007 11:07 AM > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Pablo, Just so you are clear, SP2 is pre-beta and will overwrite your VFP 9 runtimes and merge modules if you install it. These runtimes are not necessarily ready for prime-time and you could accidentally release them to your clients if you are not careful when installing the SP2 patch file. With respect to the Sedna files, only the NET4COM stuff requires the .NET 2.0 runtimes, not the entire release. Rick White Light Computing, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.rickschummer.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pablo H Rivera Sr Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Foxpro going opensource Out from lurkworld to ask: if I apply the Sedna and "SP2" additions (say their February renderings) to VFP9 SP1, does that require the addition of any other or additional "runtime" files that will need to be placed in the client's computer? Thanks! PabloSr - Value, above all, persons, not things! Peace. Valora, sobre todo, personas, no cosas! Paz. - <<== Much Trimed from the quoted message ==>> * -Original Message- * [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Stevenson * * >Bill Sanders said: * >The EXE that is Sedna , that ADD ON program requiring * the VFP9 runtime * >modules, will be released free of charge. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Rick, thanks for the Heads Up re SP2 and the lite load for Sedna needed as opposed to the Full Load. Gil > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rick Schummer > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 1:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Foxpro going opensource > > > Pablo, > > Just so you are clear, SP2 is pre-beta and will overwrite your > VFP 9 runtimes and merge modules if > you install it. These runtimes are not necessarily ready for > prime-time and you could accidentally > release them to your clients if you are not careful when > installing the SP2 patch file. > > With respect to the Sedna files, only the NET4COM stuff requires > the .NET 2.0 runtimes, not the > entire release. > > Rick > White Light Computing, Inc. > > www.whitelightcomputing.com > www.rickschummer.com > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pablo H Rivera > Sr > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:16 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Foxpro going opensource > > Out from lurkworld to ask: if I apply the Sedna and "SP2" > additions (say their February renderings) to VFP9 SP1, does > that require the addition of any other or additional "runtime" > files that will need to be placed in the client's computer? > > Thanks! > > PabloSr > - > Value, above all, persons, not things! Peace. > Valora, sobre todo, personas, no cosas! Paz. > - > > <<== Much Trimed from the quoted message ==>> > * -Original Message- > * [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Stevenson > * > * >Bill Sanders said: > * >The EXE that is Sedna , that ADD ON program requiring > * the VFP9 runtime > * >modules, will be released free of charge. > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Rick, > YAG has been quite clear on the fact VFP will never be sold > because of the Intellectual Property > (IP) in VFP that is now in other MS products. > He also mentioned that Microsoft will look at any severe > problem in VFP discovered after VFP 9 SP2 is released and > address it on a case-by-case basis. While I cannot speak for > MS, I would think something breaking because of a future OS > release might trigger such consideration. BTW, that's fine with me. It says that MS will be *responsible* for the product for well into the foreseeable future, regardless of product support dates. That's great for us, especially those (most of us) with investments. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not selling my customers on VFP, I'm selling software products that do things they need. The important part for us, I think, is that MS is not - nor likely to be - in a position to simply stuff VFP into a box somewhere and forget about it. Of the 3 possibilities: 1. They sell it 2. They turn it over to the public domain 3. They keep responsibility for it I don't have a problem with the 3rd. I've long accepted that MS wasn't going to promote VFP. Now that they've abandoned furthering it, I think that will open up room for competitors to get back into the fray, and we can look to them for advancements. In the meanwhile, we'll have the security of MS fixing problems - and, as importantly - not reinventing it! So we - and our investments - are in pretty good shape, I'd say. Bill > > Rick > White Light Computing, Inc. > > www.whitelightcomputing.com > www.rickschummer.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> - RDBMS. When the day comes that RDBMS's are passé, replaced with > something so good that relational doesn't make sense anymore, then I > would be inclined to agree the genre is dead. VFP doesn't even compare with other RDBMS's in common use today. Yes, sometimes the speed is comparible, but the featureset lags far behind Oracle, MSSQL, and MySQL(free versions exist of MySQL and MSSQL; possibly Oracle, but I'm not as familiar). > - Royalty-free. Need I expound? What's not? I haven't seen developer tools that are royalty free for a long time. If you're talking the RDBMS, there are very good free alternatives(MySQL/MSDE/SQL Express/SQLite) available for everything that VFP can scale to and even beyond. > - integrated product development system. The 10% at the top of our This is very common and has been for years. Not at all unique to VFP or xBase. > - a core language so rich that, after a lot of years, I have yet to use > every feature. There are some frustrations and limitations, but nothing > that can't be fixed or improved with effort. If there were a clearly > superior language/RDBMS dev system on the market, I'd have heard about > it, and frankly, I would have yearned to use it, but I'm not seeing such > a thing. What I do see are all the things I have yet to do, and can do, > with VFP. VFP's language is riddled with the curse of 'legacy'. This is just one thing that drags the language down. There are also many, many frustrations and limitations that can not easily be worked around in VFP. One in particular, is the flashing of images with alpha transparency information(png) when lockscreen is set to false. Having not control of the lower level GDI/GDIplus functions used to draw the screen, this is an un-solvable problem. > advantages of computers. There are literally billions of people out > there, mostly relatively poor, with a growing appetite for machines that > we take for granted. As the market extends, the favorites are going to > be products that deliver the best value, and nothing on the market says > "value" better then VFP (the genre). In many of these countries, all the products are 'free'... Hence, they end up with what's popular. Most certainly not VFP(though there are clear exceptions, of course). > And that's just where the genre stands today. Imagine it being even > better? It's dying. xbase is a file-based RDBMS. The years of file-based RDBMS's ruling supreme are far behind us. We're in the time of server-based RDBMS's. -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> > He also mentioned that Microsoft will look at any severe > > problem in VFP discovered after VFP 9 SP2 is released and > > address it on a case-by-case basis. While I cannot speak for > > MS, I would think something breaking because of a future OS > > release might trigger such consideration. > BTW, that's fine with me. It says that MS will be *responsible* for the > product for well into the foreseeable future, regardless of product > support dates. That's great for us, especially those (most of us) with > investments. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not selling my customers on > VFP, I'm selling software products that do things they need. You seem to be taking that as someone who trusts Microsoft... If you read the material, I believe you'll find that MS says they may CONSIDER fixing problems. It doesn't say they will fix it, and might not even consider it. Way too many 'outs' in their own wording to make me feel secure... -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Aaarrrggh!. Thank you Rick for this clarification, timely and will prevent some headaches here! Back to reinstall VFP9. PabloSr === Original Message: - From: Rick Schummer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:58:48 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Foxpro going opensource Pablo, Just so you are clear, SP2 is pre-beta and will overwrite your VFP 9 runtimes and merge modules if you install it. These runtimes are not necessarily ready for prime-time and you could accidentally release them to your clients if you are not careful when installing the SP2 patch file. With respect to the Sedna files, only the NET4COM stuff requires the .NET 2.0 runtimes, not the entire release. Rick White Light Computing, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.rickschummer.com myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft® Windows® and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Derek - Your arguments here all seem to be directed towards VFP's own internal DBF support rather than evaluating the entire product as a whole. If one were to remove .DBF support from VFP, the product would STILL be superior to every other RAD tool out there that handles data in my opinion. Believe me, I've spent time looking and hoping to find something, so I could get off the VFP sinking ship, but I've yet to see anything even close. VFP does sql server handling easier than most everything out there too so let's stop talking about how the DBF is dead. It is dead, I don't think anyone is arguing that. That doesn't mean VFP as a tool should be dead too. The extremely rich yet simplistic OOP & GUI related capabilities of VFP along with the simple yet robust ways we can manage data from other datasources is unparalleled. Once we start talking about the integrated reporting capabilities (especially since VFP9), there's almost no other product to discuss for comparison. These are the points I believe Bill is trying to make! These are the capabilities that help make VFP like no other product out there. Microsoft's .NET doesn't come close (although as they steal more of VFP, it may eventually), yet I find it far more complicated than it needs to be and that is never going to change. PHP & Python are languages, not RAD tools so you can't compare them. Having a sufficient framework and large collections of libraries of code does makes those languages 'closer' to what VFP is when you use them and may eventually allow them to catch up, but that day is not here yet.. Oracle,MySQL,MS SQL, are just databases, and at their best can do only a fraction of what the total VFP product can do for an application developer. With some of the stuff coming out of VFPx and the GDI libraries very talented people are doing, I think you'll find a solution to any VFP limitation / problem you still might have at the moment.. Now, having said all this, I won't disagree that the market is dying. This is simply because of a lack of knowledge, not due to a lack of anything related to VFP. The lack of knowledge comes from years and years of lack of publicity and education intentionally from MS to kill the product. Lay people have trouble when I say that all the time, "well if it's so great why would they kill it, that just makes no sense?" The market need, as Bill points out, is in fact growing. More and more companies need solutions to their technology needs, and they need it faster and cheaper than ever. In fact, the problem is so bad, that many now solve the problem by outsourcing to countries like India for extremely cheap labor. Since they can't seem to find an ultra fast and effective RAD tool, they look to lowering the actual labor costs instead. What a shame!! If only they knew a product like VFP existed ( I mean truly knew what it was capable of ) there would be little need to hire a team of 10-15 3rd world country programmers to do the job of 1-3 VFP programmers. Anyway, my post is simply to clarify arguing VFP's merits as an application toolset/RAD product versus other tools out there. -Steve At 01:51 PM 3/26/2007, you wrote: > > - RDBMS. When the day comes that RDBMS's are passé, replaced with > > something so good that relational doesn't make sense anymore, then I > > would be inclined to agree the genre is dead. > >VFP doesn't even compare with other RDBMS's in common use today. Yes, >sometimes the speed is comparible, but the featureset lags far behind >Oracle, MSSQL, and MySQL(free versions exist of MySQL and MSSQL; >possibly Oracle, but I'm not as familiar). > > > > - Royalty-free. Need I expound? > >What's not? I haven't seen developer tools that are royalty free for a >long time. If you're talking the RDBMS, there are very good free >alternatives(MySQL/MSDE/SQL Express/SQLite) available for everything >that VFP can scale to and even beyond. > > > > - integrated product development system. The 10% at the top of our > >This is very common and has been for years. Not at all unique to VFP or xBase. > > > > - a core language so rich that, after a lot of years, I have yet to use > > every feature. There are some frustrations and limitations, but nothing > > that can't be fixed or improved with effort. If there were a clearly > > superior language/RDBMS dev system on the market, I'd have heard about > > it, and frankly, I would have yearned to use it, but I'm not seeing such > > a thing. What I do see are all the things I have yet to do, and can do, > > with VFP. > >VFP's language is riddled with the curse of 'legacy'. This is just one >thing that drags the language down. There are also many, many >frustrations and limitations that can not easily be worked around in >VFP. One in particular, is the flashing of images with alpha >transparency information(png) when lockscreen is set to false. Having >not control of the lower level GDI/GDIplus functions used to d
RE: Foxpro going opensource
> > - RDBMS. When the day comes that RDBMS's are passé, replaced with > > something so good that relational doesn't make sense > anymore, then I > > would be inclined to agree the genre is dead. > > VFP doesn't even compare with other RDBMS's in common use > today. Yes, sometimes the speed is comparible, but the > featureset lags far behind Oracle, MSSQL, and MySQL(free > versions exist of MySQL and MSSQL; possibly Oracle, but I'm > not as familiar). VFP was never designed to function as a database server, so I don't consider that a fair comparison. For our market, small business and niches within large companies, the power of VFP on LANS is just fine, without our having to resort to high-end ($) products. > > - Royalty-free. Need I expound? > > What's not? I haven't seen developer tools that are royalty > free for a long time. If you're talking the RDBMS, there are > very good free alternatives(MySQL/MSDE/SQL Express/SQLite) > available for everything that VFP can scale to and even beyond. But that's the multi-product solution, as compared to the xBase/VFP "Swiss Army Knife" integrated approach. This is a big subject, with room for different points of view. I'm not against extending a VFP app to ALSO handle data from different sources, but I greatly prefer to build products that can run standalone and have minimum dependencies on any other product. It's hard enough to master and control one product. Being responsible for and having to master and control multiple products at the development level is a proposition that I've gone through great lengths to avoid. > > - integrated product development system. The 10% at the top of our > > This is very common and has been for years. Not at all unique > to VFP or xBase. My point was that the market, programmers, is heavy in the middle, not the top, and the 'average' programmer isn't about to become master of multiple products in any reasonable time frame. Therefore these people are better served with a "general purpose Swiss Army Knife" that they can do many things with today and also has plenty of room to grow with tomorrow. > > - a core language so rich that, after a lot of years, I have yet to > > use every feature. There are some frustrations and limitations, but > > nothing that can't be fixed or improved with effort. If there were a > > clearly superior language/RDBMS dev system on the market, I'd have > > heard about it, and frankly, I would have yearned to use it, but I'm > > not seeing such a thing. What I do see are all the things I have yet > > to do, and can do, with VFP. > > VFP's language is riddled with the curse of 'legacy'. This is > just one thing that drags the language down. There are also > many, many frustrations and limitations that can not easily > be worked around in VFP. One in particular, is the flashing > of images with alpha transparency information(png) when > lockscreen is set to false. Having not control of the lower > level GDI/GDIplus functions used to draw the screen, this is > an un-solvable problem. You're into fancier screen stuff then I'm up to, so I can't offer an answer to the problem you're seeing. As to the "legacy" part, I don't even see it until someone mentions it. Besides, I assume most of us use some sort of framework that has wrappers around arcane functions. I rarely write "USE" in code anymore, it's all calls to my "CONNECT" class, which handles all the details of making connections, recovery included. But perhaps most importantly is that we have libraries of code examples that we can put into classes or just copy/paste, so we don't have to struggle again and again with nuances after a function is worked out the first time. It's fair to say that nowadays I spend much more time searching for previously coded solutions then writing new ones (although I don't mind writing code either way, I prefer to use the tested code). I also think that a part of what's perennially called 'legacy' is really a reaction to "computereze", regardless of the language. I'm quite sure I could pickup a book on, say, Oracle or SAP, and find commands that are arcane or even laughable. There just isn't a "pure" computer language, perhaps save the assembler - which at least is honest about it. The fact is that we're trying to conduct human->machine dialogs and that's intrinsically hard to do. > > advantages of computers. There are literally billions of people out > > there, mostly relatively poor, with a growing appetite for machines > > that we take for granted. As the market extends, the favorites are > > going to be products that deliver the best value, and nothing on the > > market says "value" better then VFP (the genre). > > In many of these countries, all the products are 'free'... > Hence, they end up with what's popular. Most certainly not > VFP(though there are clear exceptions, of course). I've been thinking about Spanish speaking countries (dialect difference a
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> > VFP doesn't even compare with other RDBMS's in common use > > today. Yes, sometimes the speed is comparible, but the > > featureset lags far behind Oracle, MSSQL, and MySQL(free > > versions exist of MySQL and MSSQL; possibly Oracle, but I'm > > not as familiar). > VFP was never designed to function as a database server, so I don't > consider that a fair comparison. For our market, small business and > niches within large companies, the power of VFP on LANS is just fine, > without our having to resort to high-end ($) products. VFP sucks bandwidth. 100Mbps LANs are a must for our application(10Mbps is noticeably slow). This is made worse by a problem with VFP that causes it to read the first 20 bytes of our dbc hundreds of times a second when running-- without oplocks(multiple stations), this causes our app to take 10 seconds to start! Compared to 1-2 seconds if there's an oplock. DBF's also are prone to corruption, can't be backed up online, and have no true security mechanism. We're comparing free to free(mysql/MSDE/MSSQL Express)-- not free to big $$$. > minimum dependencies on any other product. It's hard enough to master > and control one product. Being responsible for and having to master and > control multiple products at the development level is a proposition that > I've gone through great lengths to avoid. That sounds like a craftsman that insists on using one tool for every project-- be it a hammer, a screwdriver, etc. Sometimes you need to learn more than one tool to get the project done right. > My point was that the market, programmers, is heavy in the middle, not > the top, and the 'average' programmer isn't about to become master of > multiple products in any reasonable time frame. Therefore these people > are better served with a "general purpose Swiss Army Knife" that they > can do many things with today and also has plenty of room to grow with > tomorrow. Maybe that's where I don't understand-- most of the good programmers I know don't fit that 'average programmer' category, and rather are able to command more than one tool/language and excel at each. And then there are the slower amongst us-- I'm personally more than happy to leave them in the dust-- everyone can't be a programmer/developer. > You're into fancier screen stuff then I'm up to, so I can't offer an > answer to the problem you're seeing. No one can. Save maybe the VFP team themselves, but that's unlikely. I believe they're bitblting the screen and then drawing images on top and that's what's causing the flicker... I'm sure they did that for performance reasons with more 'normal' VFP applications, but our highly graphical application is not typical. > As to the "legacy" part, I don't even see it until someone mentions it. Go into VFP and create a normal control of any sorts on a form. Look at the property list-- heh, look at just for the form. You'll see a huge number of the properties are old properties and methods that are not used in the VFP age-- they're there for more legacy 2.x and older stuff. Many of the properties are even for MAC-- I can't understand why those couldn't have been hidden at some point, considering VFP9 can't even compile MAC VFP apps anymore, AFAIK... > > It's dying. xbase is a file-based RDBMS. The years of > > file-based RDBMS's ruling supreme are far behind us. We're in > > the time of server-based RDBMS's. > But you know it's also a client for the various backends, thus it's only > real weakness is not being a multi-user server engine itself. And even There goes one of(possibly the biggest) benefit of VFP-- it's data engine(save for local cursors where it's not as significant a feature and not used in n-tier apps as much). Beyond that, the only thing VFP offers beyond the other more mainstream tools would be a built-in report designer, as inferior as it is(improved in VFP9 somewhat). -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Derek, Are you saying that you enable oplocks on the workstation? I thought they were enabled by default? I assume you mean the setting in the registry: \HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\LanmanServer\Parameter s In which case I'm confused but intrigued by your findings as the default setting is ON - or I thought so anyway. Dave Crozier -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek Kalweit Sent: 26 March 2007 21:39 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: Foxpro going opensource > > VFP doesn't even compare with other RDBMS's in common use > > today. Yes, sometimes the speed is comparible, but the > > featureset lags far behind Oracle, MSSQL, and MySQL(free > > versions exist of MySQL and MSSQL; possibly Oracle, but I'm > > not as familiar). > VFP was never designed to function as a database server, so I don't > consider that a fair comparison. For our market, small business and > niches within large companies, the power of VFP on LANS is just fine, > without our having to resort to high-end ($) products. VFP sucks bandwidth. 100Mbps LANs are a must for our application(10Mbps is noticeably slow). This is made worse by a problem with VFP that causes it to read the first 20 bytes of our dbc hundreds of times a second when running-- without oplocks(multiple stations), this causes our app to take 10 seconds to start! Compared to 1-2 seconds if there's an oplock. DBF's also are prone to corruption, can't be backed up online, and have no true security mechanism. We're comparing free to free(mysql/MSDE/MSSQL Express)-- not free to big $$$. > minimum dependencies on any other product. It's hard enough to master > and control one product. Being responsible for and having to master and > control multiple products at the development level is a proposition that > I've gone through great lengths to avoid. That sounds like a craftsman that insists on using one tool for every project-- be it a hammer, a screwdriver, etc. Sometimes you need to learn more than one tool to get the project done right. > My point was that the market, programmers, is heavy in the middle, not > the top, and the 'average' programmer isn't about to become master of > multiple products in any reasonable time frame. Therefore these people > are better served with a "general purpose Swiss Army Knife" that they > can do many things with today and also has plenty of room to grow with > tomorrow. Maybe that's where I don't understand-- most of the good programmers I know don't fit that 'average programmer' category, and rather are able to command more than one tool/language and excel at each. And then there are the slower amongst us-- I'm personally more than happy to leave them in the dust-- everyone can't be a programmer/developer. > You're into fancier screen stuff then I'm up to, so I can't offer an > answer to the problem you're seeing. No one can. Save maybe the VFP team themselves, but that's unlikely. I believe they're bitblting the screen and then drawing images on top and that's what's causing the flicker... I'm sure they did that for performance reasons with more 'normal' VFP applications, but our highly graphical application is not typical. > As to the "legacy" part, I don't even see it until someone mentions it. Go into VFP and create a normal control of any sorts on a form. Look at the property list-- heh, look at just for the form. You'll see a huge number of the properties are old properties and methods that are not used in the VFP age-- they're there for more legacy 2.x and older stuff. Many of the properties are even for MAC-- I can't understand why those couldn't have been hidden at some point, considering VFP9 can't even compile MAC VFP apps anymore, AFAIK... > > It's dying. xbase is a file-based RDBMS. The years of > > file-based RDBMS's ruling supreme are far behind us. We're in > > the time of server-based RDBMS's. > But you know it's also a client for the various backends, thus it's only > real weakness is not being a multi-user server engine itself. And even There goes one of(possibly the biggest) benefit of VFP-- it's data engine(save for local cursors where it's not as significant a feature and not used in n-tier apps as much). Beyond that, the only thing VFP offers beyond the other more mainstream tools would be a built-in report designer, as inferior as it is(improved in VFP9 somewhat). -- Derek [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> Are you saying that you enable oplocks on the workstation? I thought they > were enabled by default? Not enabled as much as the file system able to achieve them. Oplocks are basically the stations saying "I'm the only one using this file, so I'll handle the locking until someone else opens the file and flush all my info back to the server afterwards"-- versus normal operations of all locking and file operations going directly to the network server... If you manually DISABLE oplocks, you'll see the same performance as you do if you have multiple stations using the same files. > In which case I'm confused but intrigued by your findings as the default > setting is ON - or I thought so anyway. Yes. You have to manually turn it off(not that there's typically a reason to do so). -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Dave Crozier said: >Derek, >Are you saying that you enable oplocks on the workstation? I thought >they were enabled by default? >In which case I'm confused but intrigued ... ... and I was intrigued by your statement: >a problem with VFP that causes it to read the first 20 bytes of our dbc hundreds of times a second when running that must surely be unique to you or no-one would be running Fos apps! (are you sure it's not an anomaly of whatever tool you're using to detect network activity?) Andrew Davies MBCS CITP - AndyD 8-)# ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. Please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] with any queries. ** ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> >a problem with VFP that causes it to read the first 20 bytes of our dbc > hundreds of times a second when running > that must surely be unique to you or no-one would be running Fos apps! > (are you sure it's not an anomaly of whatever tool you're using to detect > network activity?) I'm sure some people don't have it, yes. Fully unique? no. When I was working on it with the MS VFP support tech, I was able to create a basic test exe with a simple DBC and tables that did the same thing consistently. He was able to re-create it on his end as well-- the VFP team did nothing. Filemon from sysinternals is what was used-- no anomoly, it's really happening. If you run filemon with your dbc/dbf-based apps, you may see it as well... -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
At 09:39 AM 3/28/2007 -0400, Derek Kalweit wrote: > > >a problem with VFP that causes it to read the first 20 bytes of our dbc > > hundreds of times a second when running ... Quick question: are you using Views to access the data? -Charlie ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> > > >a problem with VFP that causes it to read the first 20 bytes of our dbc > > > hundreds of times a second when running > Quick question: are you using Views to access the data? Yes and no. Yes, our application uses views. No, the views are not in use when this problem first occurs(on load). There were also no views in the test app I created for TS. -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Derek Kalweit wrote: >> Quick question: are you using Views to access the data? >> > > Yes and no. Yes, our application uses views. No, the views are not in > use when this problem first occurs(on load). There were also no views > in the test app I created for TS. > > I'm starting to take a different, hybrid kind of approach where I use views for retrieving but then just do inserts/updates/deletes directly into the VFP or MYSQL tables. Not sure if this simplifies or complicates, but so far, so good in my experiences. I'm wondering too if it aids at all in network traffic management? Probably not with VFP. But I recall VB6 learning about ADO recordsets and the various types of cursors you could create (e.g., "forward only" being the least network intensive). -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com "Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions!" ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Funny, I was literally thinking about this the other day myself. What prompted you to go this direction? Are you binding the view also to your forms and then simply creating the update sql statements at save time, or using objects for the binding, in which case, I don't see why you'd use the view.. :) Have you run into any gotchas along the way? >I'm starting to take a different, hybrid kind of approach where I use >views for retrieving but then just do inserts/updates/deletes directly >into the VFP or MYSQL tables. Not sure if this simplifies or >complicates, but so far, so good in my experiences. I'm wondering too >if it aids at all in network traffic management? Probably not with >VFP. But I recall VB6 learning about ADO recordsets and the various >types of cursors you could create (e.g., "forward only" being the least >network intensive). > >-- >Michael J. Babcock, MCP >MB Software Solutions, LLC >http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com >http://fabmate.com >"Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions!" > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Steve Ellenoff wrote: > Funny, I was literally thinking about this the other day myself. What > prompted you to go this direction? > I was using objects for single record viewing as well as processing single record insert/updates in views. So when passing my objects along my tiers (UI --> Biz --> Data) I found it so easy to just use INSERT INTO MyTable FROM NAME toRecord as well as making use of SCATTER/GATHER too. In addition, for non-VFP backends, I was getting an empty recordset/row from the remote table, inserting my fields, and using Paul McNett's MakeUpdatable.prg utility (found in the ProFox downloads section) to automatically do the insert/update like a remote view. > Are you binding the view also to your forms and then simply creating > the update sql statements at save time, or using objects for the > binding, in which case, I don't see why you'd use the view.. :) > I'm using views basically for grids, where it's many records to show at once. However, I'm experimenting sometimes with using the dirty buffer status of the records (via GETNEXTMODIFIED) and then scattering to a record and SEEKing against a VFP table and then doing a GATHER, or, for non-VFP, using the MakeUpdatable.prg as I mentioned above. > Have you run into any gotchas along the way? > None that stand out in my head at present! -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com "Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions!" ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> >> Quick question: are you using Views to access the data? > > Yes and no. Yes, our application uses views. No, the views are not in > > use when this problem first occurs(on load). There were also no views > > in the test app I created for TS. > I'm starting to take a different, hybrid kind of approach where I use > views for retrieving but then just do inserts/updates/deletes directly > into the VFP or MYSQL tables. Not sure if this simplifies or > complicates, but so far, so good in my experiences. I'm wondering too > if it aids at all in network traffic management? Probably not with > VFP. But I recall VB6 learning about ADO recordsets and the various > types of cursors you could create (e.g., "forward only" being the least > network intensive). Much of the views still in use in the application were created many years ago when Ed was on board as a consultant(or soon after by another developer). Personally, I'm not a fan of VFP-designer-built views, as they're way too inflexible. I have some code-built views in temporary view DBCs that I use at certain parts of the app where I want easy buffered add/update/insert functionality, but most other places I use basic SQL. -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Are you handling multi-user contentions? User1 gets data, interrupted by phone User2 gets data, makes change to field1, saves update User1 makes change to field2, saves update Does User1 save overwrite field1 again? Tracy -Original Message- From: MB Software Solutions Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:21 PM None that stand out in my head at present! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> Are you handling multi-user contentions? > User1 gets data, interrupted by phone > User2 gets data, makes change to field1, saves update > User1 makes change to field2, saves update > > Does User1 save overwrite field1 again? In most applications I've worked with there's a higher level mechanism to lock a logical order, ticket, customer, etc. to prevent such problems. The second user can only open the thing read-only or not at all, depending on the application. -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Tracy Pearson <> wrote: > Are you handling multi-user contentions? > User1 gets data, interrupted by phone > User2 gets data, makes change to field1, saves update > User1 makes change to field2, saves update > > Does User1 save overwrite field1 again? > > Tracy > > -Original Message- > From: MB Software Solutions > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:21 PM > > None that stand out in my head at present! If you are making your update statement in a dynamic way, why not update the columns that changed and your where clause is everything that didn't change. Update ThatTable Set col4= NevVal4 , col6 = newVal6 Where key = key And col2 = oldVal2 And col3 = oldVal3 And col5 = oldVal5 And col7 = oldVal7 KISS at work. Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.20/736 - Release Date: 3/27/2007 4:38 PM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Tracy Pearson wrote: > Are you handling multi-user contentions? > User1 gets data, interrupted by phone > User2 gets data, makes change to field1, saves update > User1 makes change to field2, saves update > > Does User1 save overwrite field1 again? > Yes, all MBSS systems are designed for multiple usershowever, I don't check for the collisions like that (but easily could if necessary/desired). I use the "last hand on top is it" approach. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com "Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions!" ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Stephen the Cook wrote: > Tracy Pearson <> wrote: > >> Are you handling multi-user contentions? >> User1 gets data, interrupted by phone >> User2 gets data, makes change to field1, saves update >> User1 makes change to field2, saves update >> >> Does User1 save overwrite field1 again? >> >> Tracy >> >> -Original Message- >> From: MB Software Solutions >> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:21 PM >> >> None that stand out in my head at present! >> > > If you are making your update statement in a dynamic way, why not update the > columns that changed and your where clause is everything that didn't change. > > > Update ThatTable > Set col4= NevVal4 > , col6 = newVal6 > Where key = key > And col2 = oldVal2 > And col3 = oldVal3 > And col5 = oldVal5 > And col7 = oldVal7 > > KISS at work. > Yep...I've seen code where they construct the UPDATE SQL on the fly with that kind of logic. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com "Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions!" ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
MB Software Solutions <> wrote: > Stephen the Cook wrote: >> Tracy Pearson <> wrote: >> >>> Are you handling multi-user contentions? >>> User1 gets data, interrupted by phone >>> User2 gets data, makes change to field1, saves update >>> User1 makes change to field2, saves update >>> >>> Does User1 save overwrite field1 again? >>> >>> Tracy >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: MB Software Solutions >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:21 PM >>> >>> None that stand out in my head at present! >>> >> >> If you are making your update statement in a dynamic way, why not >> update the columns that changed and your where clause is everything >> that didn't change. >> >> >> Update ThatTable >> Set col4= NevVal4 >> , col6 = newVal6 >> Where key = key >> And col2 = oldVal2 >> And col3 = oldVal3 >> And col5 = oldVal5 >> And col7 = oldVal7 >> >> KISS at work. >> > > Yep...I've seen code where they construct the UPDATE SQL on the fly > with that kind of logic. This way if someone changed col7 on you, your not getting your update to take. You have to trp for it, but what the heck. Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.20/736 - Release Date: 3/27/2007 4:38 PM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Bill Arnold wrote: >>> - RDBMS. When the day comes that RDBMS's are passé, replaced with >>> something so good that relational doesn't make sense >> anymore, then I >>> would be inclined to agree the genre is dead. >> VFP doesn't even compare with other RDBMS's in common use >> today. Yes, sometimes the speed is comparible, but the >> featureset lags far behind Oracle, MSSQL, and MySQL(free >> versions exist of MySQL and MSSQL; possibly Oracle, but I'm >> not as familiar). > > > VFP was never designed to function as a database server, so I don't > consider that a fair comparison. For our market, small business and > niches within large companies, the power of VFP on LANS is just fine, > without our having to resort to high-end ($) products. > Why should you choose? I usually connect to database in MSSQLServer through ODBC and have no trouble at all. I can tap the full power of the servers you cite. But I can still combine, re-order, and do whatever I want with the result sets the server returns thanks to VFP. What's more, I can easily combine result set's from two different servers (in my case SQLServer and Progress) in any way I deem necessary by just writing another SELECT statement. Now if you can mention any other tool that allows me to do that > > I've been thinking about Spanish speaking countries (dialect difference > aside), and what a huge market that is for our products and tools (just > need good English->Spanish translators). > Ehemmm! If the money is right.. ;c) > >>> And that's just where the genre stands today. Imagine it being even >>> better? >> It's dying. xbase is a file-based RDBMS. The years of >> file-based RDBMS's ruling supreme are far behind us. We're in >> the time of server-based RDBMS's. There's no 'time of', we are not hair stylers or clothes designer's. We have a job to do, a problem to solve in the fastest and most reliable way we can find. With VFP I can address the best of 'file-based' solutions and at the same time get the full power of 'server-based' RDBMS. And if I need a stand alone application I can have that too. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Steve Ellenoff wrote: > The market need, as Bill points out, is in fact > growing. More and more companies need solutions > to their technology needs, and they need it > faster and cheaper than ever. In fact, the > problem is so bad, that many now solve the > problem by outsourcing to countries like India > for extremely cheap labor. Since they can't seem > to find an ultra fast and effective RAD tool, > they look to lowering the actual labor costs > instead. What a shame!! If only they knew a > product like VFP existed ( I mean truly knew what > it was capable of ) there would be little need to > hire a team of 10-15 3rd world country > programmers to do the job of 1-3 VFP programmers. Of course not! They would hire a team of 3 '3rd world country' VFP programmers and save 60% cost. ;c) ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > There's no 'time of', we are not hair stylers or clothes designer's. > We have a job to do, a problem to solve in the fastest and most reliable > way we can find. With VFP I can address the best of 'file-based' > solutions and at the same time get the full power of 'server-based' > RDBMS. And if I need a stand alone application I can have that too. > Amen to that! -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com "Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions!" ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
On Mar 28, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > Why should you choose? I usually connect to database in MSSQLServer > through ODBC and have no trouble at all. I can tap the full power > of the > servers you cite. But I can still combine, re-order, and do whatever I > want with the result sets the server returns thanks to VFP. What's > more, > I can easily combine result set's from two different servers (in my > case > SQLServer and Progress) in any way I deem necessary by just writing > another SELECT statement. Now if you can mention any other tool that > allows me to do that I can think of one... hint: it starts with the letter 'D'. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Ed Leafe <> wrote: > On Mar 28, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >> Why should you choose? I usually connect to database in MSSQLServer >> through ODBC and have no trouble at all. I can tap the full power of >> the servers you cite. But I can still combine, re-order, and do >> whatever I want with the result sets the server returns thanks to >> VFP. What's more, I can easily combine result set's from two >> different servers (in my case SQLServer and Progress) in any way I >> deem necessary by just writing another SELECT statement. Now if you >> can mention any other tool that allows me to do that > > I can think of one... hint: it starts with the letter 'D'. I was thinking of Dot Net as well! What a coincidence. Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.20/736 - Release Date: 3/27/2007 4:38 PM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
On 3/29/07, Ed Leafe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I can think of one... hint: it starts with the letter 'D'. > copycat... A+ jml ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
On Mar 29, 2007, at 6:56 AM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > I was thinking of Dot Net as well! What a coincidence. Oh, did marketing decide to change the name again? So far they've waffled between shouting it as .NET and the calmer .Net, and now you say they're dropping the silly period in favor of spelling out 'Dot'? Wow, will the innovation never cease! -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
> they're dropping the silly period And MAN is it a silly period. -- Alan Bourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Michael Babcock said "I was getting an empty recordset/row from the remote table, inserting my fields, and using Paul McNett's MakeUpdatable.prg" I used the code from makeupdatable for a long time but have now pretty much switched to cursoradapters. I'm interested in the "getting an empty recordset/row from the remote table" comment though because I've recently had some problems with adding records to ca cursors - append blank works on the cursor side but this causes problems where the backend logic expects null values. btw for anyone who followed my earlier thread about using 'scatter name this' in a data object I can report that it is working fine - in cases where you have control over the backend db naming (to avoid possible conflicts) I recommend the approach as an easy way to set up single record data objects (the data can be from several tables, but only one 'row' at a time). Andrew Davies MBCS CITP - AndyD 8-)# ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. Please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] with any queries. ** ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Andy Davies wrote: > Michael Babcock said "I was getting an empty recordset/row from the remote > table, inserting my fields, and using Paul McNett's MakeUpdatable.prg" > > I used the code from makeupdatable for a long time but have now pretty much > switched to cursoradapters. I'm interested in the "getting an empty > recordset/row from the remote table" comment though because I've recently > had some problems with adding records to ca cursors - append blank works on > the cursor side but this causes problems where the backend logic expects > null values. > I basically do a SELECT FROM MYTABLE WHERE 1=0 to get an empty recordset, then insert the record from my object. Then do a TABLEUPDATE. (This of course is possible when using Paul's MakeUpdatable.prg.) > btw for anyone who followed my earlier thread about using 'scatter name > this' in a data object I can report that it is working fine - in cases > where you have control over the backend db naming (to avoid possible > conflicts) I recommend the approach as an easy way to set up single record > data objects (the data can be from several tables, but only one 'row' at a > time). > I do something very similar and with success. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com "Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions!" ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Ed Leafe wrote: >> I can easily combine result set's from two different servers (in my >> case >> SQLServer and Progress) in any way I deem necessary by just writing >> another SELECT statement. Now if you can mention any other tool that >> allows me to do that >> > > I can think of one... hint: it starts with the letter 'D'. > Ah! Trust Ed to slyly slip in a reference to Denny's new Grand Slam Software. The software that lets YOU design breakfast nearly as good as Denny's! http://www.dennys.com/en/page.asp?PID=1&ID=40 BTW, has anyone ever heard of something called "Dabo?" It's supposed to be some sort of 3 tier software with a Python IDE, or something. It's been getting a little bit of buzz, but I'm kind of leery about it. Supposedly has on open source structure, instead of a solid support structure like Microsoft, and seems to be one of those "built by 2 guys in their garage in their spare time" sort of deals. Goodness knows, nothing good has ever come from THAT sort of working model. ;-P ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
On 3/29/07, Vince Teachout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > seems to be one of those "built by 2 guys > in their garage in their spare time" sort of deals. Goodness knows, > nothing good has ever come from THAT sort of working model. ;-P "A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. " --- Margaret Mead -- Ted Roche Ted Roche & Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Ted Roche wrote: > On 3/29/07, Vince Teachout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> seems to be one of those "built by 2 guys >> in their garage in their spare time" sort of deals. Goodness knows, >> nothing good has ever come from THAT sort of working model. ;-P >> > > "A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, > it's the only thing that ever has. " --- Margaret Mead I was thinking of Apple, actually. However, Maggie's right, too. Of course, large groups of stupid people have made quite a number of changes as well... ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Just like Bill and Paul then! Tristan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vince Teachout Posted At: 29 March 2007 16:08 Posted To: Profox Archive Conversation: Foxpro going opensource Subject: Re: Foxpro going opensource "built by 2 guys in their garage in their spare time" sort of deals. Goodness knows, nothing good has ever come from THAT sort of working model. ;-P -- This email was sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless otherwise agreed expressly in writing by Marine Software Limited, this communication and attachments are to be treated as confidential and the information in it may not be used or disclosed except for the purpose for which it was sent. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication you should destroy it without copying, disclosing or otherwise using its contents. Please notify the sender immediately of the error. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Marine Software Limited. Registered in England & Wales. No 2576494 Regsitered Office. Unit3, Aylesham Business Pk, Aylesham. Kent. UK -- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
OK, I've off the list for awhile, so, what is this Foxpro going opensource all about? v/r //SIGNED// Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF 6th MDG Data Services Manager Comm (813) 827-9994 DSN 651-9994 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen the Cook Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:57 AM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: Foxpro going opensource Ed Leafe <> wrote: > On Mar 28, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >> Why should you choose? I usually connect to database in MSSQLServer >> through ODBC and have no trouble at all. I can tap the full power of >> the servers you cite. But I can still combine, re-order, and do >> whatever I want with the result sets the server returns thanks to >> VFP. What's more, I can easily combine result set's from two >> different servers (in my case SQLServer and Progress) in any way I >> deem necessary by just writing another SELECT statement. Now if you >> can mention any other tool that allows me to do that > > I can think of one... hint: it starts with the letter 'D'. I was thinking of Dot Net as well! What a coincidence. Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.20/736 - Release Date: 3/27/2007 4:38 PM [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
=> => OK, I've off the list for awhile, so, what is this Foxpro => going opensource all about? => => v/r => => //SIGNED// => => Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF Oy! B+ HALinNY ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
On 3/29/07, Wolfe, Stephen S YA-2 6 MDSS/SGSI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OK, I've off the list for awhile, so, what is this Foxpro going opensource > all about? Much ado about nothing. YAG announced at the MVP Summit that the Sedna add-ons for VFP9 were being released under one of MS's "shared source" licenses at CodePlex.com, as had been previously suggested, and that there were no plans for VFP 10. Steven Vaughn-Nicholls picked up on the story and mangled it into "VFP to be released as Open Source!" which is wrong on two counts: it's not VFP they're releasing, and not Open Source they're releasing Sedna as. His report was in eWeek, it was picked up all over the place, including the O'Reilly website and Slashdot; confusion follows. Despite the attempts of many of us to correct the report, it's out there, and two or three threads here on leafe.com have gone off wandering from that announcement. Welcome back, Stephen. Same stuff, different day. -- Ted Roche Ted Roche & Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
In thinking about the irony of how there's all this false info about VFP out there due to one person's mistake, it's a damn shame the guy didn't mangle the story to say "MS to support VFP for 100 years", or at least something else really positive. -Steve At 12:02 PM 3/29/2007, you wrote: >On 3/29/07, Wolfe, Stephen S YA-2 6 MDSS/SGSI ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > OK, I've off the list for awhile, so, what is this Foxpro going > opensource all about? > >Much ado about nothing. YAG announced at the MVP Summit that the Sedna >add-ons for VFP9 were being released under one of MS's "shared source" >licenses at CodePlex.com, as had been previously suggested, and that >there were no plans for VFP 10. > >Steven Vaughn-Nicholls picked up on the story and mangled it into "VFP >to be released as Open Source!" which is wrong on two counts: it's not >VFP they're releasing, and not Open Source they're releasing Sedna as. >His report was in eWeek, it was picked up all over the place, >including the O'Reilly website and Slashdot; confusion follows. >Despite the attempts of many of us to correct the report, it's out >there, and two or three threads here on leafe.com have gone off >wandering from that announcement. > >Welcome back, Stephen. Same stuff, different day. > >-- >Ted Roche >Ted Roche & Associates, LLC >http://www.tedroche.com > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
On 3/29/07, Steve Ellenoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In thinking about the irony of how there's all this false info about > VFP out there due to one person's mistake, it's a damn shame the guy > didn't mangle the story to say "MS to support VFP for 100 years", or > at least something else really positive. That's not that much different from the last time VFP was on Slashdot. Or the time before that. Hmm. Maybe there's a pattern there ;) -- Ted Roche Ted Roche & Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Ted Roche wrote: > Much ado about nothing. YAG announced at the MVP Summit that the Sedna > add-ons for VFP9 were being released under one of MS's "shared source" > licenses at CodePlex.com, as had been previously suggested, and that > there were no plans for VFP 10. > > Steven Vaughn-Nicholls picked up on the story and mangled it into "VFP > to be released as Open Source!" which is wrong on two counts: it's not > VFP they're releasing, and not Open Source they're releasing Sedna as. > His report was in eWeek, it was picked up all over the place, > including the O'Reilly website and Slashdot; confusion follows. > Despite the attempts of many of us to correct the report, it's out > there, and two or three threads here on leafe.com have gone off > wandering from that announcement. > Maybe all the press will spark a rebirth movement for the Fox?! lol! -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com "Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions!" ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
Ed Leafe wrote: > On Mar 28, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >> Why should you choose? I usually connect to database in MSSQLServer >> through ODBC and have no trouble at all. I can tap the full power >> of the >> servers you cite. But I can still combine, re-order, and do whatever I >> want with the result sets the server returns thanks to VFP. What's >> more, >> I can easily combine result set's from two different servers (in my >> case >> SQLServer and Progress) in any way I deem necessary by just writing >> another SELECT statement. Now if you can mention any other tool that >> allows me to do that > > I can think of one... hint: it starts with the letter 'D'. > You don't have to convince me Ed. I'm actually reading Dive into P. (though slowly, got too much work right now). Next week I plan to install 'D'. > -- Ed Leafe > -- http://leafe.com > -- http://dabodev.com > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Foxpro going opensource
MB Software Solutions wrote: > Andy Davies wrote: >> Michael Babcock said "I was getting an empty recordset/row from the remote >> table, inserting my fields, and using Paul McNett's MakeUpdatable.prg" >> >> I used the code from makeupdatable for a long time but have now pretty much >> switched to cursoradapters. I'm interested in the "getting an empty >> recordset/row from the remote table" comment though because I've recently >> had some problems with adding records to ca cursors - append blank works on >> the cursor side but this causes problems where the backend logic expects >> null values. >> > I basically do a SELECT FROM MYTABLE WHERE 1=0 to get an empty > recordset, then insert the record from my object. Then do a > TABLEUPDATE. (This of course is possible when using Paul's > MakeUpdatable.prg.) > I always have a cursor with the actual record being edited (or not). If the user clicks 'New' then I do an 'append blank' in that same cursor, fill the default values, and when user clicks 'Write' just tableupdate. >> btw for anyone who followed my earlier thread about using 'scatter name >> this' in a data object I can report that it is working fine - in cases >> where you have control over the backend db naming (to avoid possible >> conflicts) I recommend the approach as an easy way to set up single record >> data objects (the data can be from several tables, but only one 'row' at a >> time). >> > I do something very similar and with success. > > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
At 03:47 PM 3/28/07, you wrote: >Are you handling multi-user contentions? > User1 gets data, interrupted by phone > User2 gets data, makes change to field1, saves update > User1 makes change to field2, saves update > >Does User1 save overwrite field1 again? By default, my framework will prompt the user attempting to save for whether to overwrite the previous user's values. But the security in my current project limits write access for a particular user to records that were created by that user in most cases. So it's highly unlikely that two people would be able to edit the same record at the same time. Ken Dibble www.stic-cil.org ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Foxpro going opensource
Derek, Sorry for the delay in following up - had some urgent stuff to tend to > > > VFP doesn't even compare with other RDBMS's in common use today. > > > Yes, sometimes the speed is comparible, but the featureset lags > > > far behind Oracle, MSSQL, and MySQL(free versions exist of MySQL > > > and MSSQL; possibly Oracle, but I'm not as familiar). > > > VFP was never designed to function as a database server, so I don't > > consider that a fair comparison. For our market, small business and > > niches within large companies, the power of VFP on LANS is just > > fine, without our having to resort to high-end ($) products. > > VFP sucks bandwidth. 100Mbps LANs are a must for our > application(10Mbps is noticeably slow). On the LAN front, I'm very encouraged to see gigabit Ethernet available, and talk of a 10 gigabit standard coming http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci535824,00. html > This is made worse by > a problem with VFP that causes it to read the first 20 bytes > of our dbc hundreds of times a second when running-- without > oplocks(multiple stations), this causes our app to take 10 > seconds to start! Compared to 1-2 seconds if there's an oplock. > DBF's also are prone to corruption, can't be backed up > online, and have no true security mechanism. With buffering, I'm not seeing corruption. And for important tables I keep audit trails of all changes made, for analysis and recovery purposes. For backups, 24x7 is the hardest case. Just gotta get users off to do the backups. Note that the audit trails help here, because full backups need to be taken less often. Security is a cat and mouse game that I have little interest in. I do support passwords and could implement encyption, but I steer clear of making general 'security' committments because there are just too many exposures. For example, there's nothing we can do to stop someone with physical access to equipment from taking screen prints or photos of screens, or even just remembering information. And these kind of exposures apply to any system. > We're comparing free to free(mysql/MSDE/MSSQL Express)-- not free to big $$$. It's not the free part that concerns me, it's the difference between a single integrated dev environment versus the multiple product approach - and all that entails. I see it as opting for a comfortable level of simplicity - at a price - versus complexity. > > minimum dependencies on any other product. It's hard enough > to master > > and control one product. Being responsible for and having to master > > and control multiple products at the development level is a > > proposition that I've gone through great lengths to avoid. > > That sounds like a craftsman that insists on using one tool for every > project-- be it a hammer, a screwdriver, etc. Sometimes you > need to learn more than one tool to get the project done right. VFP lets us go from ideas to executables, so it's a whole lot more then a hammer! > > My point was that the market, programmers, is heavy in the middle, not > > the top, and the 'average' programmer isn't about to become master of > > multiple products in any reasonable time frame. Therefore these people > > are better served with a "general purpose Swiss Army Knife" that they > > can do many things with today and also has plenty of room to grow with > > tomorrow. > > Maybe that's where I don't understand-- most of the good > programmers I know don't fit that 'average programmer' > category, and rather are able to command more than one > tool/language and excel at each. And then there are the > slower amongst us-- I'm personally more than happy to leave > them in the dust-- everyone can't be a programmer/developer. But we're talking about a dev product, so the audience really is the 'average' developer, which is my point: that VFP has a place in town. > > You're into fancier screen stuff then I'm up to, so I can't offer an > > answer to the problem you're seeing. > > No one can. Save maybe the VFP team themselves, but that's > unlikely. I believe they're bitblting the screen and then > drawing images on top and that's what's causing the > flicker... I'm sure they did that for performance reasons > with more 'normal' VFP applications, but our highly graphical > application is not typical. > > > > As to the "legacy" part, I don't even see it until someone mentions > > it. > > Go into VFP and create a normal control of any sorts on a > form. Look at the property list-- heh, look at just for the > form. You'll see a huge number of the properties are old > properties and methods that are not used in the VFP age-- > they're there for more legacy 2.x and older stuff. Many of > the properties are even for MAC-- I can't understand why > those couldn't have been hidden at some point, considering > VFP9 can't even compile MAC VFP apps anymore, AFAIK... Agreed > > It's dying. xbase is a file-based RDBMS. T
DBC File Scan/Access (was Re: Foxpro going opensource)
Derek -
I've seen a lot of extraneous traffic, similar to what you've described.
The pinpointed things to change were:
- search paths for the exe
'set path to' in any prg or method
'path=' in the config.fpw file
- stripping out the paths in the forms prior to compilation.
changing 'data\george.dbc' to 'george.dbc'
I made some code for a projecthook that runs prior to the actual build of
the exe that strips out stuff in the forms - paths were only one thing
that it does. I had built it into 'beforebuildevent' method.
hth - regards [Bill]
--
William Sanders / efGroup {rmv the DOT BOB to reply}
VFP Webhosting? You BET! -> http://efgroup.net/vfpwebhosting
Failing dotNet Project? -> http://www.dotnetconversions.com
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What's that Dabo thing? (was Re: Foxpro going opensource)
Heya Vince -
Hopefully you are well recovered by now and back to your rambunctious
ways, yes?
Kick the tires - http://www.dabodev.com
"BTW, has anyone ever heard of something called "Dabo?" It's supposed to
be some sort of 3 tier software with a Python IDE, or something. It's
been getting a little bit of buzz, but I'm kind of leery about it.
Supposedly has on open source structure, instead of a solid support
structure like Microsoft, and seems to be one of those "built by 2 guys
in their garage in their spare time" sort of deals. Goodness knows,
nothing good has ever come from THAT sort of working model. ;-P"
--
William Sanders / efGroup {rmv the DOT BOB to reply}
VFP Webhosting? You BET! -> http://efgroup.net/vfpwebhosting
Failing dotNet Project? -> http://www.dotnetconversions.com
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Re: DBC File Scan/Access (was Re: Foxpro going opensource)
> I've seen a lot of extraneous traffic, similar to what you've described. > > The pinpointed things to change were: > - search paths for the exe >'set path to' in any prg or method >'path=' in the config.fpw file Searching the paths is nothing compared to this problem. > - stripping out the paths in the forms prior to compilation. >changing 'data\george.dbc' to 'george.dbc' > > I made some code for a projecthook that runs prior to the actual build of > the exe that strips out stuff in the forms - paths were only one thing > that it does. I had built it into 'beforebuildevent' method. The problem I describe isn't searching for the file-- it's the excessive re-reading of the dbc header-- a file it already has open. FYI, if the DBC is marked readonly, this doesn't occur. The VFP support tech suggested this, which I believe the VFP team mentioned-- so they know the code which is excessively reading the header, it seems, as they've specifically put code in to not re-read constantly if it's readonly... Obviously having a read-only DBC causes other problems, particularly during data update routines. One of the proposals to solve our problem was to manage the readability of the DBC files, making it writable for data structure changes, etc, and readonly otherwise, but the risk was high, as it causes data corruption if VFP needs to write to the DBC for something and can't... -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: DBC File Scan/Access (was Re: Foxpro going opensource)
Derek, Which version of VFP did you find this in? I'm interested if the same fault is still within VFP9 in which case it may well be a good idea to press the team for a fix whilst they are still around. I must admit I've never come across the problem and we run about 150 screens here so I'd be interested in seeing the code which you reckon can show the problem if you wouldn't mind. Dave Crozier -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek Kalweit Sent: 29 March 2007 14:53 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: DBC File Scan/Access (was Re: Foxpro going opensource) > I've seen a lot of extraneous traffic, similar to what you've described. > > The pinpointed things to change were: > - search paths for the exe >'set path to' in any prg or method >'path=' in the config.fpw file Searching the paths is nothing compared to this problem. > - stripping out the paths in the forms prior to compilation. >changing 'data\george.dbc' to 'george.dbc' > > I made some code for a projecthook that runs prior to the actual build of > the exe that strips out stuff in the forms - paths were only one thing > that it does. I had built it into 'beforebuildevent' method. The problem I describe isn't searching for the file-- it's the excessive re-reading of the dbc header-- a file it already has open. FYI, if the DBC is marked readonly, this doesn't occur. The VFP support tech suggested this, which I believe the VFP team mentioned-- so they know the code which is excessively reading the header, it seems, as they've specifically put code in to not re-read constantly if it's readonly... Obviously having a read-only DBC causes other problems, particularly during data update routines. One of the proposals to solve our problem was to manage the readability of the DBC files, making it writable for data structure changes, etc, and readonly otherwise, but the risk was high, as it causes data corruption if VFP needs to write to the DBC for something and can't... -- Derek [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: DBC File Scan/Access (was Re: Foxpro going opensource)
> Which version of VFP did you find this in? I'm interested if the same fault > is still within VFP9 in which case it may well be a good idea to press the > team for a fix whilst they are still around. > > I must admit I've never come across the problem and we run about 150 screens > here so I'd be interested in seeing the code which you reckon can show the > problem if you wouldn't mind. VFP7, VFP8, and VFP9, I believe. I originally found it with 7 I believe, and confirmed it still existed with 8 and 9. We run thousands of seats worldwide with 1-10 'screens' at each location. I believe I deleted the test code/project for this a while ago, as I was working with Lee from TS about 2-3 years ago on it, I believe. I would think Microsoft's support system should still have my ticket with supporting files if MS were to take a new look at the issue... I'm quite certain they are not. I talked to Mike Stewart about it back then as well, and he didn't see it as something the VFP team would address, from what I recall. -- Derek ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: What's that Dabo thing? (was Re: Foxpro going opensource)
On Mar 29, 2007, at 10:51 AM, William Sanders / EFG wrote: > Hopefully you are well recovered by now and back to your rambunctious > ways, yes? You're assuming he was rambunctious *before*? ;-P -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: What's that Dabo thing? (was Re: Foxpro going opensource)
William Sanders / EFG wrote: > Heya Vince - > > Hopefully you are well recovered by now and back to your rambunctious > ways, yes? > > Kick the tires - http://www.dabodev.com > --- Rambunctious? Hmmm, what a nice way of saying asshole! I like it! :-D Yeah, fully rambunctious again! I have tried Dabo, and plan to start using it in earnest soon. I have a small vfp project that I managed to break when I upgraded some 3rd party software, so it will be perfect for rebuilding in Dabo and Python. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
