Re: Pro Tools Dock and s3

[Slau Halatyn]

Hi Vinny,

I don't remember where you got your Control|24. Sweetwater? At any rate, if you 
upgrade through them, you'll have to provide that serial number and, whereas it 
used to be that Avid provided an RA# with a prepaid shipping label (although 
good luck finding an appropriate shipping box), they no longer provide for 
shipping. technically, you're supposed to ship the unit back to California. In 
reality, however, the Avid rep at Sweetwater said to either donate the unit or 
recycle it. Frankly, I couldn't find anyone locally who wanted it so I recycled 
at Best Buy and sent a copy of the receipt.

Coming from the Control|24, it wasn't a tough call a year ago but, with the S3 
and new Dock, it's a toss up.

Best,

Slau

On Nov 1, 2015, at 4:08 PM, Vinny Pedulla  wrote:

> Hi Slau,
> I really appreciate the thorough comparison you presented to us…
> A lot to consider, but at least it looks promising for us in the way of 
> control surfaces.
> 
> Thanks,
> Vinny
> Email: vinnypedu...@gmail.com
> 
>> On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Slau Halatyn  wrote:
>> 
>> while visiting with some folks at the Avid booths at AES, I had a chance to 
>> check out the new Pro Tools Dock alongside the S3 surface. Clearly, the Dock 
>> is meant as a companion to the S3 in its form factor and functionality. I've 
>> never seen the Artist surfaces in person so I can't say whether they share 
>> anything ergonomically so this is just from the perspective of the S series.
>> 
>> Clearly, the S series is the future as far as surfaces go in the Pro Tools 
>> family of products. Surely, the Artist series is as well but only at a lower 
>> price point. I got to spend some time with one of the designers and he 
>> walked me through its features and workflow. To me, it seems to be as 
>> equally accessible as the C|24 with some key differences. The introduction 
>> of the Dock mitigates a couple of those differences but introduces a few 
>> others.
>> 
>> To start, the S3 is technically an interface with 4 inputs and 4 outputs. 
>> For very basic recording, it's all you need to set up a Pro Tools system 
>> with a surface. What it lacks, however, is a standard transport section and 
>> scrub wheel. The transport isn't essential but it sometimes comes in 
>> extremely handy as a time-saver and an absolute determinant of transport 
>> status. The new Dock does include the standard transport controls along with 
>> a proper scrub wheel with truly smooth operation.
>> 
>> The C|24 has 24 faders as opposed to the S3's 16 faders. That's not a major 
>> difference. The S3 has no mic preamps where the C|24 has 16 preamps plus a 
>> 16-channel submixer. The C|24 also has a comprehensive monitoring and 
>> talkback system which the S3 does not have. The C|24 is more of a 
>> self-contained solution for a studio environment. While the S3 is certainly 
>> meant for any control room, it assumes that one has other gear to supplement 
>> its role as purely a surface with perhaps the capability of up to 4 inputs 
>> and outputs and a basic stereo headphone send. If you're using multiple 
>> pairs of monitors or a surround system, you'd need a dedicated switcher  and 
>> a separate talkback system or perhaps one of the offerings from companies 
>> like Dangerous that have all of that functionality.
>> 
>> Regarding the Dock, it's meant to utilize one of several iPad models. the 
>> iPad sits in a cradle that has buttons oriented to complement some of the 
>> on-screen areas of the Pro Tools Control app running on the iPad. I 
>> personally haven't tried the Control app yet so I can't comment on its 
>> operation and accessibility but it's clearly deeply integrated into the 
>> Dock's workflow. I'd imagine that it would be possible to use the Dock's 
>> transport and scrub wheel functions without the iPad because those features 
>> don't depend on any application. I'm sure that there are aspects of the 
>> Dock's behavior that would certainly require the presence of an iPad but I'm 
>> not sure precisely what those features and workflows are at this point. The 
>> Dock doesn't ship until early next year.
>> 
>> Looking at the two systems (the C|24 and the S3 and Dock combination), I'd 
>> say they're comparable for the most part for most users. The C|24 has some 
>> advantages for a studio but its life cycle is clearly going to end in the 
>> next few years. It'll be supported for a couple of years beyond that but the 
>> S3 is a new product and will most definitely outlive the C|24 by a wide 
>> margin. I already have a c|24 because I upgraded from its predecessor, the 
>> Control|24. the familiarity made it an obvious choice. In addition, at the 
>> time of my upgrade, there was no S3. If you look at the price of the two 
>> families, the C|24 is currently advertised at $10,000 through Sweetwater. I 
>> know Chuck recently posted a quote from Alto Music for $5,800 for a C|24 
>> with no trade-in 

Re: [Bulk] Pro Tools Dock and s3

[Slau Halatyn]

Hi Katie,

The time I spent at AES with the S3 is hardly enough to make any conclusive 
statement. I'd say the fact that Sean and perhaps a few others have used it is 
more of a testament to its usability. BTW, yes, it does have the fader flip 
mode as do all of the Avid surfaces. If you're mixing in surround, you'd 
definitely need another interface to handle the multi-channel output. Further, 
you'd need some sort of monitor controller to handle the routing of those six 
channels to the speakers and the ability to switch between stereo and surround. 
The C|24 has that built in. As far as preamps and monitor 
switchers/controllers, you could spend anywhere from a thousand dollars to many 
thousands, depending on your particular needs and the available brands, etc. 
It's entirely possible that the S3 has at least some facility for surround 
panning but I haven't looked into that at all. The Dock probably only works 
with the Mac in so far as it likely has an Ethernet connection to show up as an 
Ethernet controller in the preferences window. Beyond that, its functionality 
in that regard would probably be limited to transport and scrub/shuttle 
behavior, perhaps some soft key function. I think it's truly meant for use with 
an iPad to take advantage of its full potential. It does make me just a tiny 
bit wary of the longevity of the iPad platform. That said, I'm certain that any 
supported iPad model will likely outlive the Dock itself and, most likely, 
whatever system is running Pro Tools. At best, any surface is only going to 
have a lifespan of, say, 10 to 15 years. Probably most iPads will live that 
long if they're dedicated to the Pro Tools Dock. By that time, one would 
probably move onto whatever the new surface is. Keep in mind that the 
Control|24 had a pretty long run (some 15 years) and still technically works 
just fine with Pro Tools 10. blind users were essentially forced to keep using 
their Control|24s because, when the C\24 was introduced, the current version of 
Pro Tools at that time was not accessible. It would be at least another few 
years before that would happen and a couple more than that before it became a 
viable option for prime-time use. Now that we're at that point, the purchase of 
a control surface becomes a major decision but needs to also be considered in 
the context of the cost of doing business. It's not much different than buying 
a van for your business and either running it into the ground or selling it at 
some point and buying a new one. Hey, there's always the option to lease as 
well, if you're into that kind of thing.

Getting back to the surround question, whether you're going with c|24 or S3, 
you'll still need an interface to output 6 channels (or whatever format) of 
audio. It's going to be expensive. If you're only doing basic stereo and 
recording less than 5 tracks at a time, the S3 alone will suffice. It's that 
surround issue that makes for a costly solution. Probably the hardest thing to 
do is to define, very specifically, exactly what you think you'll need and 
decide which solution will work best for your situation. Wherever possible, 
I'll try to answer any questions I think I might have some answers for but a 
lot of the S3 aspect is still very new to me. I'll probably download the manual 
to start learning a bit more for future reference.

Best,

Slau

On Nov 1, 2015, at 10:03 PM, Katie Zodrow  wrote:

> Hey Slau its Katie.
> 
> Thanks for comparing both the S3 and C24 control surfaces. Now, I guess I’m 
> not really sure which way to go either. It sounds like the C24 has everything 
> already built in like for mic preamps, the monitor section so I can mix in 
> 5.1 surround and the talk back mic and listen back features. If I get the new 
> S3, I’d probably have to purchase additional mic preamps or other gear for 
> mixing in surround. Is that right? Just wondering if that would cost more 
> compared to if I wanted to get the C24 or not?
> 
> Last week, I read some posts on the Avid community forums about control 
> surfaces. A lot of people that posted in 2012 and even last year agreed that 
> the C24 probably might be discontinued in a few years. Some people thought 
> this control surface was already discontinued because stores like Guitar 
> Center had stopped selling it.
> 
> Does the S3 also have fader flip mode if I need to use it for adjusting plug 
> in parameters? Was navigating the S3 for you more difficult than the C24? The 
> dock sounds pretty cool. Does the new dock work only with the iPad or can you 
> use it with a Mac too? Thanks.
> 
> If you don’t mind, I can send your  post comparing both control surfaces, and 
> the other info I got from Sean to Rick later today or Monday.
> Thanks again for your help.
> Katie
>> On Nov 1, 2015, at 1:26 PM, Slau Halatyn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Vinny,
>> 
>> I don't remember where you got your Control|24. Sweetwater? At any rate, if 
>> you upgrade 

Re: [Bulk] Pro Tools Dock and s3

[Katie Zodrow]

Hey Slau its Katie.

Thanks for comparing both the S3 and C24 control surfaces. Now, I guess I’m not 
really sure which way to go either. It sounds like the C24 has everything 
already built in like for mic preamps, the monitor section so I can mix in 5.1 
surround and the talk back mic and listen back features. If I get the new S3, 
I’d probably have to purchase additional mic preamps or other gear for mixing 
in surround. Is that right? Just wondering if that would cost more compared to 
if I wanted to get the C24 or not?

Last week, I read some posts on the Avid community forums about control 
surfaces. A lot of people that posted in 2012 and even last year agreed that 
the C24 probably might be discontinued in a few years. Some people thought this 
control surface was already discontinued because stores like Guitar Center had 
stopped selling it.

Does the S3 also have fader flip mode if I need to use it for adjusting plug in 
parameters? Was navigating the S3 for you more difficult than the C24? The dock 
sounds pretty cool. Does the new dock work only with the iPad or can you use it 
with a Mac too? Thanks.

If you don’t mind, I can send your  post comparing both control surfaces, and 
the other info I got from Sean to Rick later today or Monday.
Thanks again for your help.
Katie
> On Nov 1, 2015, at 1:26 PM, Slau Halatyn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Vinny,
> 
> I don't remember where you got your Control|24. Sweetwater? At any rate, if 
> you upgrade through them, you'll have to provide that serial number and, 
> whereas it used to be that Avid provided an RA# with a prepaid shipping label 
> (although good luck finding an appropriate shipping box), they no longer 
> provide for shipping. technically, you're supposed to ship the unit back to 
> California. In reality, however, the Avid rep at Sweetwater said to either 
> donate the unit or recycle it. Frankly, I couldn't find anyone locally who 
> wanted it so I recycled at Best Buy and sent a copy of the receipt.
> 
> Coming from the Control|24, it wasn't a tough call a year ago but, with the 
> S3 and new Dock, it's a toss up.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Slau
> 
> On Nov 1, 2015, at 4:08 PM, Vinny Pedulla  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Slau,
>> I really appreciate the thorough comparison you presented to us…
>> A lot to consider, but at least it looks promising for us in the way of 
>> control surfaces.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Vinny
>> Email: vinnypedu...@gmail.com
>> 
>>> On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Slau Halatyn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> while visiting with some folks at the Avid booths at AES, I had a chance to 
>>> check out the new Pro Tools Dock alongside the S3 surface. Clearly, the 
>>> Dock is meant as a companion to the S3 in its form factor and 
>>> functionality. I've never seen the Artist surfaces in person so I can't say 
>>> whether they share anything ergonomically so this is just from the 
>>> perspective of the S series.
>>> 
>>> Clearly, the S series is the future as far as surfaces go in the Pro Tools 
>>> family of products. Surely, the Artist series is as well but only at a 
>>> lower price point. I got to spend some time with one of the designers and 
>>> he walked me through its features and workflow. To me, it seems to be as 
>>> equally accessible as the C|24 with some key differences. The introduction 
>>> of the Dock mitigates a couple of those differences but introduces a few 
>>> others.
>>> 
>>> To start, the S3 is technically an interface with 4 inputs and 4 outputs. 
>>> For very basic recording, it's all you need to set up a Pro Tools system 
>>> with a surface. What it lacks, however, is a standard transport section and 
>>> scrub wheel. The transport isn't essential but it sometimes comes in 
>>> extremely handy as a time-saver and an absolute determinant of transport 
>>> status. The new Dock does include the standard transport controls along 
>>> with a proper scrub wheel with truly smooth operation.
>>> 
>>> The C|24 has 24 faders as opposed to the S3's 16 faders. That's not a major 
>>> difference. The S3 has no mic preamps where the C|24 has 16 preamps plus a 
>>> 16-channel submixer. The C|24 also has a comprehensive monitoring and 
>>> talkback system which the S3 does not have. The C|24 is more of a 
>>> self-contained solution for a studio environment. While the S3 is certainly 
>>> meant for any control room, it assumes that one has other gear to 
>>> supplement its role as purely a surface with perhaps the capability of up 
>>> to 4 inputs and outputs and a basic stereo headphone send. If you're using 
>>> multiple pairs of monitors or a surround system, you'd need a dedicated 
>>> switcher  and a separate talkback system or perhaps one of the offerings 
>>> from companies like Dangerous that have all of that functionality.
>>> 
>>> Regarding the Dock, it's meant to utilize one of several iPad models. the 
>>> iPad sits in a cradle that has buttons oriented to complement some of the 

Re: Pro Tools Dock and s3

[Vinny Pedulla]

Hi Slau,
I really appreciate the thorough comparison you presented to us…
A lot to consider, but at least it looks promising for us in the way of control 
surfaces.

Thanks,
Vinny
Email: vinnypedu...@gmail.com

> On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Slau Halatyn  wrote:
> 
> while visiting with some folks at the Avid booths at AES, I had a chance to 
> check out the new Pro Tools Dock alongside the S3 surface. Clearly, the Dock 
> is meant as a companion to the S3 in its form factor and functionality. I've 
> never seen the Artist surfaces in person so I can't say whether they share 
> anything ergonomically so this is just from the perspective of the S series.
> 
> Clearly, the S series is the future as far as surfaces go in the Pro Tools 
> family of products. Surely, the Artist series is as well but only at a lower 
> price point. I got to spend some time with one of the designers and he walked 
> me through its features and workflow. To me, it seems to be as equally 
> accessible as the C|24 with some key differences. The introduction of the 
> Dock mitigates a couple of those differences but introduces a few others.
> 
> To start, the S3 is technically an interface with 4 inputs and 4 outputs. For 
> very basic recording, it's all you need to set up a Pro Tools system with a 
> surface. What it lacks, however, is a standard transport section and scrub 
> wheel. The transport isn't essential but it sometimes comes in extremely 
> handy as a time-saver and an absolute determinant of transport status. The 
> new Dock does include the standard transport controls along with a proper 
> scrub wheel with truly smooth operation.
> 
> The C|24 has 24 faders as opposed to the S3's 16 faders. That's not a major 
> difference. The S3 has no mic preamps where the C|24 has 16 preamps plus a 
> 16-channel submixer. The C|24 also has a comprehensive monitoring and 
> talkback system which the S3 does not have. The C|24 is more of a 
> self-contained solution for a studio environment. While the S3 is certainly 
> meant for any control room, it assumes that one has other gear to supplement 
> its role as purely a surface with perhaps the capability of up to 4 inputs 
> and outputs and a basic stereo headphone send. If you're using multiple pairs 
> of monitors or a surround system, you'd need a dedicated switcher  and a 
> separate talkback system or perhaps one of the offerings from companies like 
> Dangerous that have all of that functionality.
> 
> Regarding the Dock, it's meant to utilize one of several iPad models. the 
> iPad sits in a cradle that has buttons oriented to complement some of the 
> on-screen areas of the Pro Tools Control app running on the iPad. I 
> personally haven't tried the Control app yet so I can't comment on its 
> operation and accessibility but it's clearly deeply integrated into the 
> Dock's workflow. I'd imagine that it would be possible to use the Dock's 
> transport and scrub wheel functions without the iPad because those features 
> don't depend on any application. I'm sure that there are aspects of the 
> Dock's behavior that would certainly require the presence of an iPad but I'm 
> not sure precisely what those features and workflows are at this point. The 
> Dock doesn't ship until early next year.
> 
> Looking at the two systems (the C|24 and the S3 and Dock combination), I'd 
> say they're comparable for the most part for most users. The C|24 has some 
> advantages for a studio but its life cycle is clearly going to end in the 
> next few years. It'll be supported for a couple of years beyond that but the 
> S3 is a new product and will most definitely outlive the C|24 by a wide 
> margin. I already have a c|24 because I upgraded from its predecessor, the 
> Control|24. the familiarity made it an obvious choice. In addition, at the 
> time of my upgrade, there was no S3. If you look at the price of the two 
> families, the C|24 is currently advertised at $10,000 through Sweetwater. I 
> know Chuck recently posted a quote from Alto Music for $5,800 for a C|24 with 
> no trade-in required. That's normally the trade-in price so I'm not sure how 
> Alto is getting away with no trade-in. At the very least, one would have to 
> supply a serial number for that kind of upgrade and perhaps the return 
> shipping would not necessarily be required but, at any rate, a new user would 
> be looking at anywhere from around $6,000 to, more likely, $10,000.The S3 
> sells for $5,000 and the Dock will sell for $1,200 not including an iPad. If 
> you add the cost of an iPad, you're looking at close to $7,000. If you start 
> getting into preamps, master section, monitor switching, etc. one could 
> easily spend as much or probably more when going the S3 route. The thing is, 
> one has to consider the lifespan and future of the product line.
> 
> My gut feeling is that any Control|24 user could probably upgrade to the C|24 
> without much downtime, without too much rearranging of 

a little story about Apogee at AES

[Slau Halatyn]

I thought this might be of interest to some folks on the list, at least as a 
sort of anecdote if not helpful information for the future.

As some of you might know, I've been using Apogee converters for a number of 
years. Aside from their reputation and sound, one of the clinchers for me was 
the fact that their software, Maestro, was accessible. Apogee has always been a 
Mac-centric company and their software was, for lack of a better description, 
Apple-like. Actually, I think there might have been some collaboration at one 
point between the two companies. 

Anyway, one of the developments in the recent past that disturbed me a bit was 
the introduction of one of Apogee's interfaces that was apparently branded 
through Avid as a Pro Tools Duet which was supposedly cross-platform 
compatible. However, it was exclusively a Pro Tools interface and wouldn't work 
with any other DAW. The dAW aspect didn't matter to me but what did matter was 
the Windows compatibility. My major concern was, if the code was to now be done 
in some new platform for porting to both Mac and windows, the application would 
suddenly become inaccessible and that would just plain suck. Of course, it 
would probably be an uphill battle and perhaps we would get back the 
accessibility at some point but I really didn't relish the thought of having to 
go through all of that.

So, while at AES, I visited the Apogee booth and spoke with one of the main 
representatives. I explained the scenario and my concerns and projected a 
possible situation where they might be able to make the Mac version of Maestro 
accessible if they indeed were planning on going cross-platform, etc., etc. The 
rep put his hand on my shoulder and, in one sentence, allayed my complex fears 
by simply saying, "We're definitely not going cross-platform." The comic relief 
of such a simple statement to relieve me of my concerns could only be matched 
by my equally quaint gesture of shaking his hand and replying, "Well, have a 
great show."

More observations and news about the show and other developments to follow soon.

Slau

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Pro Tools Dock and s3

[Slau Halatyn]

while visiting with some folks at the Avid booths at AES, I had a chance to 
check out the new Pro Tools Dock alongside the S3 surface. Clearly, the Dock is 
meant as a companion to the S3 in its form factor and functionality. I've never 
seen the Artist surfaces in person so I can't say whether they share anything 
ergonomically so this is just from the perspective of the S series.

Clearly, the S series is the future as far as surfaces go in the Pro Tools 
family of products. Surely, the Artist series is as well but only at a lower 
price point. I got to spend some time with one of the designers and he walked 
me through its features and workflow. To me, it seems to be as equally 
accessible as the C|24 with some key differences. The introduction of the Dock 
mitigates a couple of those differences but introduces a few others.

To start, the S3 is technically an interface with 4 inputs and 4 outputs. For 
very basic recording, it's all you need to set up a Pro Tools system with a 
surface. What it lacks, however, is a standard transport section and scrub 
wheel. The transport isn't essential but it sometimes comes in extremely handy 
as a time-saver and an absolute determinant of transport status. The new Dock 
does include the standard transport controls along with a proper scrub wheel 
with truly smooth operation.

The C|24 has 24 faders as opposed to the S3's 16 faders. That's not a major 
difference. The S3 has no mic preamps where the C|24 has 16 preamps plus a 
16-channel submixer. The C|24 also has a comprehensive monitoring and talkback 
system which the S3 does not have. The C|24 is more of a self-contained 
solution for a studio environment. While the S3 is certainly meant for any 
control room, it assumes that one has other gear to supplement its role as 
purely a surface with perhaps the capability of up to 4 inputs and outputs and 
a basic stereo headphone send. If you're using multiple pairs of monitors or a 
surround system, you'd need a dedicated switcher  and a separate talkback 
system or perhaps one of the offerings from companies like Dangerous that have 
all of that functionality.

Regarding the Dock, it's meant to utilize one of several iPad models. the iPad 
sits in a cradle that has buttons oriented to complement some of the on-screen 
areas of the Pro Tools Control app running on the iPad. I personally haven't 
tried the Control app yet so I can't comment on its operation and accessibility 
but it's clearly deeply integrated into the Dock's workflow. I'd imagine that 
it would be possible to use the Dock's transport and scrub wheel functions 
without the iPad because those features don't depend on any application. I'm 
sure that there are aspects of the Dock's behavior that would certainly require 
the presence of an iPad but I'm not sure precisely what those features and 
workflows are at this point. The Dock doesn't ship until early next year.

Looking at the two systems (the C|24 and the S3 and Dock combination), I'd say 
they're comparable for the most part for most users. The C|24 has some 
advantages for a studio but its life cycle is clearly going to end in the next 
few years. It'll be supported for a couple of years beyond that but the S3 is a 
new product and will most definitely outlive the C|24 by a wide margin. I 
already have a c|24 because I upgraded from its predecessor, the Control|24. 
the familiarity made it an obvious choice. In addition, at the time of my 
upgrade, there was no S3. If you look at the price of the two families, the 
C|24 is currently advertised at $10,000 through Sweetwater. I know Chuck 
recently posted a quote from Alto Music for $5,800 for a C|24 with no trade-in 
required. That's normally the trade-in price so I'm not sure how Alto is 
getting away with no trade-in. At the very least, one would have to supply a 
serial number for that kind of upgrade and perhaps the return shipping would 
not necessarily be required but, at any rate, a new user would be looking at 
anywhere from around $6,000 to, more likely, $10,000.The S3 sells for $5,000 
and the Dock will sell for $1,200 not including an iPad. If you add the cost of 
an iPad, you're looking at close to $7,000. If you start getting into preamps, 
master section, monitor switching, etc. one could easily spend as much or 
probably more when going the S3 route. The thing is, one has to consider the 
lifespan and future of the product line.

My gut feeling is that any Control|24 user could probably upgrade to the C|24 
without much downtime, without too much rearranging of patch bays and workflow 
confusion. For a new user or someone who has never used a control|24, the S3 
seems like the way to go.

Those are my impressions based on what I've seen, what I know and the feeling I 
get.

Slau

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Re: a little story about Apogee at AES

[Keith Reedy]

Slau,

Great news and a cool story.
Thanks for sharing.
kr
We print the Bible in Braille,
http://biblesfortheblind.org
Keith Reedy
God gives His best to those who leave the choice with Him.  J Hudson Taylor.






On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Slau Halatyn  wrote:

> I thought this might be of interest to some folks on the list, at least as a 
> sort of anecdote if not helpful information for the future.
> 
> As some of you might know, I've been using Apogee converters for a number of 
> years. Aside from their reputation and sound, one of the clinchers for me was 
> the fact that their software, Maestro, was accessible. Apogee has always been 
> a Mac-centric company and their software was, for lack of a better 
> description, Apple-like. Actually, I think there might have been some 
> collaboration at one point between the two companies. 
> 
> Anyway, one of the developments in the recent past that disturbed me a bit 
> was the introduction of one of Apogee's interfaces that was apparently 
> branded through Avid as a Pro Tools Duet which was supposedly cross-platform 
> compatible. However, it was exclusively a Pro Tools interface and wouldn't 
> work with any other DAW. The dAW aspect didn't matter to me but what did 
> matter was the Windows compatibility. My major concern was, if the code was 
> to now be done in some new platform for porting to both Mac and windows, the 
> application would suddenly become inaccessible and that would just plain 
> suck. Of course, it would probably be an uphill battle and perhaps we would 
> get back the accessibility at some point but I really didn't relish the 
> thought of having to go through all of that.
> 
> So, while at AES, I visited the Apogee booth and spoke with one of the main 
> representatives. I explained the scenario and my concerns and projected a 
> possible situation where they might be able to make the Mac version of 
> Maestro accessible if they indeed were planning on going cross-platform, 
> etc., etc. The rep put his hand on my shoulder and, in one sentence, allayed 
> my complex fears by simply saying, "We're definitely not going 
> cross-platform." The comic relief of such a simple statement to relieve me of 
> my concerns could only be matched by my equally quaint gesture of shaking his 
> hand and replying, "Well, have a great show."
> 
> More observations and news about the show and other developments to follow 
> soon.
> 
> Slau
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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Re: [Bulk] Pro Tools Dock and s3

[Sean A. Cummins]

Hey Slau,

That's the reason why I you the Avid Ensonic MC transport plus a preSonus 
central station which has the built-in talk back as well. That covers all of 
the issues you mentioned above. Of course, the I/O  that one chooses is 
completely an open field a personal choice.

Take care,

Sean

 Sent from my iPhone

So forgive my brevity!

On Nov 1, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Slau Halatyn  wrote:

Hi Katie,

The time I spent at AES with the S3 is hardly enough to make any conclusive 
statement. I'd say the fact that Sean and perhaps a few others have used it is 
more of a testament to its usability. BTW, yes, it does have the fader flip 
mode as do all of the Avid surfaces. If you're mixing in surround, you'd 
definitely need another interface to handle the multi-channel output. Further, 
you'd need some sort of monitor controller to handle the routing of those six 
channels to the speakers and the ability to switch between stereo and surround. 
The C|24 has that built in. As far as preamps and monitor 
switchers/controllers, you could spend anywhere from a thousand dollars to many 
thousands, depending on your particular needs and the available brands, etc. 
It's entirely possible that the S3 has at least some facility for surround 
panning but I haven't looked into that at all. The Dock probably only works 
with the Mac in so far as it likely has an Ethernet connection to show up as an 
Ethernet controller in the preferences window. Beyond that, its functionality 
in that regard would probably be limited to transport and scrub/shuttle 
behavior, perhaps some soft key function. I think it's truly meant for use with 
an iPad to take advantage of its full potential. It does make me just a tiny 
bit wary of the longevity of the iPad platform. That said, I'm certain that any 
supported iPad model will likely outlive the Dock itself and, most likely, 
whatever system is running Pro Tools. At best, any surface is only going to 
have a lifespan of, say, 10 to 15 years. Probably most iPads will live that 
long if they're dedicated to the Pro Tools Dock. By that time, one would 
probably move onto whatever the new surface is. Keep in mind that the 
Control|24 had a pretty long run (some 15 years) and still technically works 
just fine with Pro Tools 10. blind users were essentially forced to keep using 
their Control|24s because, when the C\24 was introduced, the current version of 
Pro Tools at that time was not accessible. It would be at least another few 
years before that would happen and a couple more than that before it became a 
viable option for prime-time use. Now that we're at that point, the purchase of 
a control surface becomes a major decision but needs to also be considered in 
the context of the cost of doing business. It's not much different than buying 
a van for your business and either running it into the ground or selling it at 
some point and buying a new one. Hey, there's always the option to lease as 
well, if you're into that kind of thing.

Getting back to the surround question, whether you're going with c|24 or S3, 
you'll still need an interface to output 6 channels (or whatever format) of 
audio. It's going to be expensive. If you're only doing basic stereo and 
recording less than 5 tracks at a time, the S3 alone will suffice. It's that 
surround issue that makes for a costly solution. Probably the hardest thing to 
do is to define, very specifically, exactly what you think you'll need and 
decide which solution will work best for your situation. Wherever possible, 
I'll try to answer any questions I think I might have some answers for but a 
lot of the S3 aspect is still very new to me. I'll probably download the manual 
to start learning a bit more for future reference.

Best,

Slau

> On Nov 1, 2015, at 10:03 PM, Katie Zodrow  wrote:
> 
> Hey Slau its Katie.
> 
> Thanks for comparing both the S3 and C24 control surfaces. Now, I guess I’m 
> not really sure which way to go either. It sounds like the C24 has everything 
> already built in like for mic preamps, the monitor section so I can mix in 
> 5.1 surround and the talk back mic and listen back features. If I get the new 
> S3, I’d probably have to purchase additional mic preamps or other gear for 
> mixing in surround. Is that right? Just wondering if that would cost more 
> compared to if I wanted to get the C24 or not?
> 
> Last week, I read some posts on the Avid community forums about control 
> surfaces. A lot of people that posted in 2012 and even last year agreed that 
> the C24 probably might be discontinued in a few years. Some people thought 
> this control surface was already discontinued because stores like Guitar 
> Center had stopped selling it.
> 
> Does the S3 also have fader flip mode if I need to use it for adjusting plug 
> in parameters? Was navigating the S3 for you more difficult than the C24? The 
> dock sounds pretty cool. Does the new dock work only with the iPad or