Re: [Freebase-experts] ISBNs, owl:sameAs, etc

2010-01-08 Thread Aldo Gangemi 
This issue had several threads on mailing lists. See e.g. my recap of  
a thread in SWIG from May 2008 [1].


Not a lot of evolution from that time, except it seems now pretty  
clear that we need a vocabulary to talk about different similarity  
relations (the most recent request for it came from Pat Hayes at  
Washington Vocamp).


However, a new vocabulary for similarity relations would also carry  
the need to "educate" people in using it, and would hamper  
interoperability with existing owl:sameAs datasets. However, better  
soon than never, I think :).


Ciao
Aldo

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008May/0126.html


On 7 Jan 2010, at 22:39, Martin Hepp (UniBW) wrote:


hi ross,
apologies for the delay!

as long as both URIs represent a book title, i have no objections.

my comment was a rather generic warning - URNs and "non-URN URIs"  
can of course be linked by owl:sameAs.


intelligence of a human or machine agent depends on the subtleness  
and quality of that agent's category system. if everything is sameAs  
to lots of other things, then the amount of intelligent conclusions  
you can draw from the LOD cloud will be limited.


best
martin



Ross Singer wrote:

Martin,

Given that there's apparently considerable disagreement here (and
probably plenty of confusion), can you elaborate on what exactly you
object to in this request?

The first objection I saw raised was by Tom Morris ("is a FreeBase
topic really a book?") and agree that urn:isbn:9780670063260 is not
the same thing as http://rdf.freebase.com/ns/en.on_the_road.

However, I'm not sure I see that distinction between
urn:isbn:9780670063260 and
http://rdf.freebase.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best as they're
both trying to identify an edition (or, loosely, a  
frbr:Manifestation)

of a work.

My questions would be:
1) If the latter relationship is not a good fit for owl:sameAs, why?
2) if #1 is true, what is a better alternative?

I understand the rationale of not wanting to water down the semantics
of owl:sameAs to the point that it's little more than rdfs:seeAlso
with louder voice.  At the same time, it's difficult to see if your
issue is with a type mismatch between a URN and a URI; how FreeBase
models their data; or general "mutually assured destruction"-ness of
owl:sameAs.

Thanks,
-Ross.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Martin Hepp (UniBW)
 wrote:


dear all:
quite clearly, a book title is not the same as a book, and if the  
linked
data community continues to link apples and oranges via owl:sameAs  
then

either

- the socially agreed meaning owl:sameAs is being degraded to  
untyped href

in HTML
or
-  vast amount of data in the linked data cloud turns useless

but as a minimum precaution against spoiling the graph of data,  
put your
sameAs statements into separate graphs so that meaningful  
applications can

filter them out easily.

best

martin

Kingsley Idehen wrote:


Daniel O'Connor wrote:


On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Tom Morris mailto:tfmor...@gmail.com>> wrote:

  But is the description of the book (ie Freebase topic) really  
the same

  thing as the book?

  Assuming it was, wouldn't you not only have to make the sameAs
  assertions and publish them someplace, but also get them  
loaded into

  sameas.org ?

  Tom

  On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Shawn Simister
  mailto:narphor...@gmail.com>> wrote:
  > Are you just looking for a script that can make the 'same as'
  assertions
  > like this?
  >
  > http://rdfbooks.freebaseapps.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best
  >


Ah hah!

Now how to (nicely) get that indexed...


Make a linkset and publish it via:

1. A data dump
2. SPARQL endpoint
3. Your Linked Data Space .

Then you have your index, and others can make their variants by  
meshing

their data with yours :-)

Re. DBpedia, we can add the linkset to its own Named Graph as  
we've done

with other linksets.



--
--
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  h...@ebusiness-unibw.org
phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620
www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
  http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp

Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
=

Project page:
http://purl.org/goodrelations/

Resources for developers:
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations

Webcasts:
Overview - http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
How-to   - http://vimeo.com/7583816

Recipe for Yahoo SearchMonkey:
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_and_Yahoo_SearchMonkey

Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based
E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
http://www.slideshare.net/mhepp/semantic-webbased-ecommerce-the-goodrelations-ontology-1535287

Overview article on Seman

Re: [Freebase-experts] ISBNs, owl:sameAs, etc

2010-01-07 Thread Martin Hepp (UniBW) 

hi ross,
apologies for the delay!

as long as both URIs represent a book title, i have no objections.

my comment was a rather generic warning - URNs and "non-URN URIs" can of 
course be linked by owl:sameAs.


intelligence of a human or machine agent depends on the subtleness and 
quality of that agent's category system. if everything is sameAs to lots 
of other things, then the amount of intelligent conclusions you can draw 
from the LOD cloud will be limited.


best
martin



Ross Singer wrote:

Martin,

Given that there's apparently considerable disagreement here (and
probably plenty of confusion), can you elaborate on what exactly you
object to in this request?

The first objection I saw raised was by Tom Morris ("is a FreeBase
topic really a book?") and agree that urn:isbn:9780670063260 is not
the same thing as http://rdf.freebase.com/ns/en.on_the_road.

However, I'm not sure I see that distinction between
urn:isbn:9780670063260 and
http://rdf.freebase.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best as they're
both trying to identify an edition (or, loosely, a frbr:Manifestation)
of a work.

My questions would be:
1) If the latter relationship is not a good fit for owl:sameAs, why?
2) if #1 is true, what is a better alternative?

I understand the rationale of not wanting to water down the semantics
of owl:sameAs to the point that it's little more than rdfs:seeAlso
with louder voice.  At the same time, it's difficult to see if your
issue is with a type mismatch between a URN and a URI; how FreeBase
models their data; or general "mutually assured destruction"-ness of
owl:sameAs.

Thanks,
-Ross.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Martin Hepp (UniBW)
 wrote:
  

dear all:
quite clearly, a book title is not the same as a book, and if the linked
data community continues to link apples and oranges via owl:sameAs then
either

- the socially agreed meaning owl:sameAs is being degraded to untyped href
in HTML
or
-  vast amount of data in the linked data cloud turns useless

but as a minimum precaution against spoiling the graph of data, put your
sameAs statements into separate graphs so that meaningful applications can
filter them out easily.

best

martin

Kingsley Idehen wrote:


Daniel O'Connor wrote:
  

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Tom Morris mailto:tfmor...@gmail.com>> wrote:

   But is the description of the book (ie Freebase topic) really the same
   thing as the book?

   Assuming it was, wouldn't you not only have to make the sameAs
   assertions and publish them someplace, but also get them loaded into
   sameas.org ?

   Tom

   On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Shawn Simister
   mailto:narphor...@gmail.com>> wrote:
   > Are you just looking for a script that can make the 'same as'
   assertions
   > like this?
   >
   > http://rdfbooks.freebaseapps.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best
   >


Ah hah!

Now how to (nicely) get that indexed...


Make a linkset and publish it via:

1. A data dump
2. SPARQL endpoint
3. Your Linked Data Space .

Then you have your index, and others can make their variants by meshing
their data with yours :-)

Re. DBpedia, we can add the linkset to its own Named Graph as we've done
with other linksets.

  

--
--
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  h...@ebusiness-unibw.org
phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620
www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
   http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp

Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
=

Project page:
http://purl.org/goodrelations/

Resources for developers:
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations

Webcasts:
Overview - http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
How-to   - http://vimeo.com/7583816

Recipe for Yahoo SearchMonkey:
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_and_Yahoo_SearchMonkey

Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based
E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
http://www.slideshare.net/mhepp/semantic-webbased-ecommerce-the-goodrelations-ontology-1535287

Overview article on Semantic Universe:
http://www.semanticuniverse.com/articles-semantic-web-based-e-commerce-webmasters-get-ready.html

Tutorial materials:
ISWC 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce in Brief: A Hands-on
Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/Web_of_Data_for_E-Commerce_Tutorial_ISWC2009








  


--
--
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  h...@ebusiness-unibw.org
phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620
www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
http://www.heppn

Re: [Freebase-experts] ISBNs, owl:sameAs, etc

2010-01-04 Thread Ross Singer 
Martin,

Given that there's apparently considerable disagreement here (and
probably plenty of confusion), can you elaborate on what exactly you
object to in this request?

The first objection I saw raised was by Tom Morris ("is a FreeBase
topic really a book?") and agree that urn:isbn:9780670063260 is not
the same thing as http://rdf.freebase.com/ns/en.on_the_road.

However, I'm not sure I see that distinction between
urn:isbn:9780670063260 and
http://rdf.freebase.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best as they're
both trying to identify an edition (or, loosely, a frbr:Manifestation)
of a work.

My questions would be:
1) If the latter relationship is not a good fit for owl:sameAs, why?
2) if #1 is true, what is a better alternative?

I understand the rationale of not wanting to water down the semantics
of owl:sameAs to the point that it's little more than rdfs:seeAlso
with louder voice.  At the same time, it's difficult to see if your
issue is with a type mismatch between a URN and a URI; how FreeBase
models their data; or general "mutually assured destruction"-ness of
owl:sameAs.

Thanks,
-Ross.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Martin Hepp (UniBW)
 wrote:
> dear all:
> quite clearly, a book title is not the same as a book, and if the linked
> data community continues to link apples and oranges via owl:sameAs then
> either
>
> - the socially agreed meaning owl:sameAs is being degraded to untyped href
> in HTML
> or
> -  vast amount of data in the linked data cloud turns useless
>
> but as a minimum precaution against spoiling the graph of data, put your
> sameAs statements into separate graphs so that meaningful applications can
> filter them out easily.
>
> best
>
> martin
>
> Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>
>> Daniel O'Connor wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Tom Morris >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>    But is the description of the book (ie Freebase topic) really the same
>>>    thing as the book?
>>>
>>>    Assuming it was, wouldn't you not only have to make the sameAs
>>>    assertions and publish them someplace, but also get them loaded into
>>>    sameas.org ?
>>>
>>>    Tom
>>>
>>>    On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Shawn Simister
>>>    mailto:narphor...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>    > Are you just looking for a script that can make the 'same as'
>>>    assertions
>>>    > like this?
>>>    >
>>>    > http://rdfbooks.freebaseapps.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best
>>>    >
>>>
>>>
>>> Ah hah!
>>>
>>> Now how to (nicely) get that indexed...
>>
>> Make a linkset and publish it via:
>>
>> 1. A data dump
>> 2. SPARQL endpoint
>> 3. Your Linked Data Space .
>>
>> Then you have your index, and others can make their variants by meshing
>> their data with yours :-)
>>
>> Re. DBpedia, we can add the linkset to its own Named Graph as we've done
>> with other linksets.
>>
>
> --
> --
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  h...@ebusiness-unibw.org
> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>        http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =
>
> Project page:
> http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
> Resources for developers:
> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations
>
> Webcasts:
> Overview - http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
> How-to   - http://vimeo.com/7583816
>
> Recipe for Yahoo SearchMonkey:
> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_and_Yahoo_SearchMonkey
>
> Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based
> E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
> http://www.slideshare.net/mhepp/semantic-webbased-ecommerce-the-goodrelations-ontology-1535287
>
> Overview article on Semantic Universe:
> http://www.semanticuniverse.com/articles-semantic-web-based-e-commerce-webmasters-get-ready.html
>
> Tutorial materials:
> ISWC 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce in Brief: A Hands-on
> Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/Web_of_Data_for_E-Commerce_Tutorial_ISWC2009
>
>
>
>

Re: [Freebase-experts] ISBNs, owl:sameAs, etc

2010-01-04 Thread Martin Hepp (UniBW) 

dear all:
quite clearly, a book title is not the same as a book, and if the linked 
data community continues to link apples and oranges via owl:sameAs then 
either


- the socially agreed meaning owl:sameAs is being degraded to untyped 
href in HTML

or
-  vast amount of data in the linked data cloud turns useless

but as a minimum precaution against spoiling the graph of data, put your 
sameAs statements into separate graphs so that meaningful applications 
can filter them out easily.


best

martin

Kingsley Idehen wrote:

Daniel O'Connor wrote:



On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Tom Morris > wrote:


But is the description of the book (ie Freebase topic) really the 
same

thing as the book?

Assuming it was, wouldn't you not only have to make the sameAs
assertions and publish them someplace, but also get them loaded into
sameas.org ?

Tom

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Shawn Simister
mailto:narphor...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Are you just looking for a script that can make the 'same as'
assertions
> like this?
>
> http://rdfbooks.freebaseapps.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best
>


Ah hah!

Now how to (nicely) get that indexed...

Make a linkset and publish it via:

1. A data dump
2. SPARQL endpoint
3. Your Linked Data Space .

Then you have your index, and others can make their variants by 
meshing their data with yours :-)


Re. DBpedia, we can add the linkset to its own Named Graph as we've 
done with other linksets.




--
--
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  h...@ebusiness-unibw.org
phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620
www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
skype:   mfhepp 
twitter: mfhepp


Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
=

Project page:
http://purl.org/goodrelations/

Resources for developers:
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations

Webcasts:
Overview - http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
How-to   - http://vimeo.com/7583816

Recipe for Yahoo SearchMonkey:
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_and_Yahoo_SearchMonkey

Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: 
"Semantic Web-based E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"

http://www.slideshare.net/mhepp/semantic-webbased-ecommerce-the-goodrelations-ontology-1535287

Overview article on Semantic Universe:
http://www.semanticuniverse.com/articles-semantic-web-based-e-commerce-webmasters-get-ready.html

Tutorial materials:
ISWC 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce in Brief: A Hands-on Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey 
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/Web_of_Data_for_E-Commerce_Tutorial_ISWC2009

Re: [Freebase-experts] ISBNs, owl:sameAs, etc

2009-12-29 Thread Kingsley Idehen 

Daniel O'Connor wrote:



On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Tom Morris > wrote:


But is the description of the book (ie Freebase topic) really the same
thing as the book?

Assuming it was, wouldn't you not only have to make the sameAs
assertions and publish them someplace, but also get them loaded into
sameas.org ?

Tom

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Shawn Simister
mailto:narphor...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Are you just looking for a script that can make the 'same as'
assertions
> like this?
>
> http://rdfbooks.freebaseapps.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best
>


Ah hah!

Now how to (nicely) get that indexed...

Make a linkset and publish it via:

1. A data dump
2. SPARQL endpoint
3. Your Linked Data Space .

Then you have your index, and others can make their variants by meshing 
their data with yours :-)


Re. DBpedia, we can add the linkset to its own Named Graph as we've done 
with other linksets.


--


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen   Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO 
OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

Re: [Freebase-experts] ISBNs, owl:sameAs, etc

2009-12-29 Thread Hugh Glaser 
On 29/12/2009 07:56, "Daniel O'Connor"  wrote:

> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Tom Morris  wrote:
>> But is the description of the book (ie Freebase topic) really the same
>> thing as the book?
>> 
>> Assuming it was, wouldn't you not only have to make the sameAs
>> assertions and publish them someplace, but also get them loaded into
>> sameas.org  ?
Sounds great - I would like that :-)
Just send me a file (URI pairs are easiest for me), or a URL of such a file.

However, I prefer to live in the Linked Data world, so have avoided
non-resolvable URIs such as urn:isbn:9780670063260 in sameas.org (so far).
In practice we could do it, or even provide a SW sameas, probably on another
domain, but I'd like to feel it was extra useful before doing it.
Any comments?
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Shawn Simister  wrote:
>>> Are you just looking for a script that can make the 'same as' assertions
>>> like this?
>>> 
>>> http://rdfbooks.freebaseapps.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best
>>> 
> 
> Ah hah!
> 
> Now how to (nicely) get that indexed...
>

Re: [Freebase-experts] ISBNs, owl:sameAs, etc

2009-12-28 Thread Daniel O'Connor 
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Tom Morris  wrote:

> But is the description of the book (ie Freebase topic) really the same
> thing as the book?
>
> Assuming it was, wouldn't you not only have to make the sameAs
> assertions and publish them someplace, but also get them loaded into
> sameas.org?
>
> Tom
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Shawn Simister 
> wrote:
> > Are you just looking for a script that can make the 'same as' assertions
> > like this?
> >
> > http://rdfbooks.freebaseapps.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best
> >
>

Ah hah!

Now how to (nicely) get that indexed...