Re: [pydotorg-www] Manning Publications MEAP - Geoprocessing with Python
On Wednesday 29. April 2015 14.57.19 Nicole Butterfield wrote: Hello, I'm writing on behalf of Manning Publications. I have just created an account on the wiki, and I see that in order to update the wiki, I need to contact you directly. That's right: we need to give you access to edit the wiki. If you could provide your wiki username, you could be added to the list of editors and then be able to make any changes you feel are necessary. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Editing the Python Wiki
On Thursday 2. April 2015 06.45.26 Reuven M. Lerner wrote: Hi there!I've published an ebook about Python, and wanted to add it to the Introductory Books page. My username on the wiki is ReuvenLerner, and the book I want to add/promote is at http://lerner.co.il/practice-makes-python Hello! I remember your articles in Linux Journal many years ago! You are now added to the editors list. Happy editing! Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Help accessing wiki.python.org
On Wednesday 7. January 2015 01.59.56 Robert Lugg wrote: Hey all, I am having a heck of a time accessing this wiki. I do have an account and can log in to www.python.org as well as on pypi. Not sure exactly what help to ask for L. Basically, login on a page asks for name, password, and OpenID. Regardless of what I tried it either sat there for a while, timed out, or told me my login is incorrect. Any help is appreciated. To edit the wiki you will need a dedicated wiki account. You can either create one from scratch by following the link on the login page, or you can use your OpenID credentials to identify yourself and associate your OpenID with a wiki identity. I'm not too familiar with the www.python.org account system, but I do have an account for PyPI, and you can use your PyPI OpenID to identify yourself to the wiki. Take a look at your user profile page on PyPI to get information about your PyPI OpenID. I have successfully used the long form to log into the wiki... https://pypi.python.org/id/YOUR_PYPI_USERNAME ...but the short form may also work. Note that you *only* need to fill out the OpenID field in the login form on the wiki. I believe I created a patch against MoinMoin to make the login page more intuitive (so that you can see that you only need to fill out the OpenID field if you choose that mechanism), but I don't believe it ever got incorporated into the upstream versions of the software, so we're stuck with a somewhat confusing interface for the time being. The wiki will still make you create an account even if you log in via OpenID. This appears to be fairly standard practice: systems like to have their own way of identifying people, and it also allows you to associate multiple OpenID identities with the same wiki account. Let us know how you get on! Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] web frameworks page feedback
On Sunday 21. December 2014 00.14.01 Martijn Faassen wrote: Hi there, [I'm not sure where discussion about the wiki content should go, perhaps not here, in which I apologize. please skip to read the bottom] I think this list is as good as any for discussion of the content. I noticed a recent change to the https://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks that moved Grok (I framework I helped found) down from the popular frameworks. I agree with that move; it's not been popular for a while now and was never as popular as, say, Pyramid or Flask are now. Here are some concerns I have with the current page: * Frameworks that I consider are big and get a lot of attention such as Flask and Pyramid do not come under any popular heading. But they are very popular, and right now they're ranked with obscure things like BlueBream or Aquarium. I don't think this reflects the state of the Python community. If you're going to do popularity stuff at all, why not list some of the popular non-full stack frameworks? The problem with popularity is that it is fluid. Originally, the notion was introduced into the page because people were unhappy that the cool frameworks (my choice of terminology, here) weren't being emphasised enough and that people were being shown too many options. One has to look even further back to see that the page and its predecessor were only ever intended to catalogue the available solutions and not offer advice. At some stage, someone even wanted to remove all but the most popular frameworks, citing the meme going round the Python community at the time that people were overwhelmed with choice and that the way to deal with this was to remove evidence of choice. Perhaps they overlooked the fact that people who perceive there to be insufficient choice may then go and create their own Web framework in response. ;-) * Why are some frameworks in a table format (which gives them more attention, I think) and some not? I can see doing so for popular frameworks, but why do it for some other full stack frameworks and some not? It looks like someone started converting the lists to table format and didn't finish: https://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks?action=recallrev=423 It would have been a lot of dull work to do that, and I don't think it's worth the effort, really. * A framework like wheezy.web is considered full stack and is highlighted in a table as such. I appreciate wheezy.web, but I really think this is unfair to frameworks like Pyramid and Flask, which offer more or less the same facilities. You can argue they offer some of them through extensions, but so does wheezy.web. If you're going to say wheezy.web is full stack, then so are Pyramid and Flask. For a traditional Python full-stack framework I'd look for something like tight database integration and a form generation system, like Django has, or Grok has. wheezy.web is far more roll your own. (For a more modern full-stack framework a lot of it might be done client-side instead) I think you've just described some of the problems with categorising things like Web frameworks. Unless a thorough job is done in presenting the characteristics of each solution, however, any categorisation will seem arbitrary. And again, people tend to get upset if you put any detail on a page like this because it confuses people. (Personally, I think that the people who get upset should stick to their 140 character tweets.) Finally, I'm the developer of a non-big non-full-stack framework called Morepath. I'd like to see it added to the page somewhere too. (http://morepath.readthedocs.org). If someone gives me editor access I can see about making some edits myself, but I'd be happy if someone else took care of these concerns too. My account name is MartijnFaassen You sound like someone with sufficient enthusiasm for, and understanding of, the topic to be remedying some of these issues. :-) Marc-André mentioned the editorial notes on the page. I added these a long time ago, and they were really only intended to rein in some of the more extreme editing exercises going on at various points to improve the page. Some of the notes seem rather specific because they actually reference fairly destructive behaviour on the part of one contributor: https://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks?action=diffrev1=91rev2=92 (Of course, one gets described as a censor if one tries to prevent people wiping away other people's work because they know best. There's another page I can think of where people have whined about choice and confusion before now, and I find that it's often the case that the people with the problem just happen to have a pet solution that they think everybody else should be using. That's quite a coincidence!) Nevertheless, a new perspective is welcome for this page, and I encourage you to edit away. :-) Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list
Re: [pydotorg-www] editing Python wiki
On Thursday 20. November 2014 21.23.56 Irmen de Jong wrote: Hi, I would like to correct the url for PYRO on this page: https://wiki.python.org/moin/DistributedProgramming but I cannot edit the page anymore. (the corrected URL that I wanted to put there is http://pythonhosted.org/Pyro4/ ) -irmen de jong (my wiki user is IrmenDeJong) I've just added you as a wiki editor. Welcome back! Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Edit request for TerriOda
On Monday 13. October 2014 08.29.39 Terri Oda wrote: I'd like to (re)request editing permissions on wiki.python.org. The GSoC 2015 students have actually started showing up already and I'd like to at least put up a stub of a page telling them to check back in January for projects. Added! Happy editing! Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Request for edit permissions
On Tuesday 12. August 2014 22.39.17 Audrey M Roy wrote: Hi, I would like to request permission to edit https://wiki.python.org/moin/DiversityInPython I would like to: 1. add info about the new #pydiversity IRC channel (part of the original Python Diversity mailing list, used for real-time discussions) 2. add links to all currently existing Python-related diversity groups/workshops/initiatives. 3. help make ongoing improvements to the page as needed. I'm aware from the page history that the page was controversial in the past; please note that I'm very much open to your advice and guidance here. Disclaimer: I'm active in PyLadies leadership, but I will do my best to be neutral and inclusive to all Python diversity initiatives. I am also now an admin for https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity and IRC #pydiversity. Do you have a wiki account already? As soon as you let us know what it is, we can add you to the editors group. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Vandalism/spam on wiki.python.org: changes to default permissions
On Saturday 31. May 2014 22.49.58 M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Hello, in recent weeks, the Python Wiki has seen an increasing amount of spam and vandalism: https://wiki.python.org/moin/RecentChanges?max_days=60 Since the textchas we've been using apparently no longer serve their intended purposes, I've now pulled the plug and disabled editing permissions for new users: https://wiki.python.org/moin/FrontPage (see Editing pages) I've added a new user group called NewUsersGroup, which does get editing rights, but we'll have to manage this manually and new users who want to receive editing rights will have to write to this mailing list to be added to the group. Thanks for doing this! I imagine that this will have very little impact on serious contributors. Certainly, anyone wanting to edit the pages will need an account, but they should be able to manage their credentials using OpenID and not have to remember another password for the site. I'm sorry for having to take this step, but the level of spam and (more importantly) vandalism we've been getting is too high to keep the wiki as open as it used to be. Please regard the above step as emergency action. I'm more than open to discussing alternative approaches to the situation, since I don't like this step myself. PS: I've only applied the new configuration to the Python wiki. We may also have to take this step for the Jython wiki. I think I've made my position on this quite clear before. We can certainly implement measures similar to those used by other Web applications, but this requires an investment in the development of functionality that has been rather difficult to justify doing until now (speaking personally). For anyone motivated enough, just looking at Wordpress and MediaWiki extensions for anti- spam should provide enough to go on, however. Meanwhile, in contrast to many sites where highly restrictive policies prevail - indeed, how many sites have disabled editing entirely due to spam? - the available forms of registration and editing approval for MoinMoin are rather benign, in my opinion. In any case, thanks for taking this step and also for cleaning up some of the recent spam. I for one appreciate this! Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Re: [Python Wiki] Update of PythonEditors by PaulBoddie
On Sunday 9. February 2014 12.14.14 anatoly techtonik wrote: Can somebody make Wiki send mails from some list address more suitable for discussions? You can't argue with the wiki? ;-) But regarding the change I made... [...] The PythonEditors page has been changed by PaulBoddie: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors?action=diffrev1=557rev2=558 Comment: Added ACL. Why? Because I'm fed up of having to revert wiki pages all the time. Some people may subscribe to the idea that things should be super-easy for random people on the Internet to go in and make their oh-so-vital contribution to shared resources like the Python Wiki, because it's otherwise setting a high barrier, inconvenient for quick changes or just being elitist, but when it just means that people go in and vandalise it with their stupid link spamming, I'd much rather raise the barrier so that it's more likely that only people motivated enough to sign up and to actually demonstrate competence and benign intent get to edit those resources. + #acl TrustedEditorsGroup:read,write,delete,revert All:read + If you have anything to contribute -- e.g. configurations for editors, new editors, or opinion -- don't hesitate to edit or create pages. Isn't it contradicting with ACL? Not really. Random spammers don't have anything to contribute, and short of introducing other measures (which exist but don't seem to be palatable to the admins, at least as far as I know), I don't think it's much to ask people to demonstrate that they are sincere about making genuine contributions. There are people who send mails to me personally to edit pages without ACLs, so it's no hardship for people to do what you managed to do and to work your way up into the trusted editors group. Currently, I'm setting ACLs only on the most spammed pages after reverting them for the nth time. Again, we could add other measures, but there seems to be a resistance to do so. I think admin time and resources are limited (and I've been waiting for months for the go-ahead on something else that involves the python.org infrastructure, although I'm quite prepared to wait), and so we just have to make the best out of what we have. But that doesn't mean asking more from me and others who de-spam the wiki just to make everybody else's lives, including those of random spammers, easier. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Privacy policy of python.org
On Thursday 23. January 2014 13.26.53 Ralf Hildebrandt wrote: * Michael Foord mich...@voidspace.org.uk: Anyone feel like responding to this? Sounds like nonsense to me. In what sense? Looking at what they asked, having a clearly indicated privacy policy is pretty standard these days, even mandated by law in some situations. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Editing the wiki
On Tuesday 19. November 2013 00.57.18 Alexandro Colorado wrote: Yeah I figure out that much. I am trying to improve the Spanish page also wonder if I can link it to the frontpage of the wiki. I see many (like Chineese at https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide ) that insert a link on the header. JZA - SpanishLanguage https://wiki.python.org/moin/SpanishLanguage You should be able to update things like BeginnersGuide, which only needs you to be a logged-in user for editing rights, so adding a link to SpanishLanguage from that page should be possible. You also shouldn't have any problems editing the SpanishLanguage page: there's no ACL on it, so it should be editable by you. The FrontPage is locked down a bit more because it's an easy target for spammers and doesn't really need to change very much anyway. On that page, there's a link to the Languages page, which is a listing of different resources in languages other than English. If you think this should be more prominent, we can probably make some edits to make these resources more easy to find. It is possible to have translated versions of pages in MoinMoin. If installed, MoinMoin provides a page called PáginaInicial for Spanish-speaking visitors, but it's possible to make such a page anyway and have it as a translated version of FrontPage. I think some sites don't really encourage this because it requires a lot of work from translators - you don't even see Wikipedia trying to have the same content on its front page or even on most content pages - but I don't have any objections to this in principle. One example of providing translations of pages in MoinMoin is this: http://wiki.fsfe.org/Advocacy_faq_en Here, pages are marked with #language xx and also have a suffix _xx on the page name (although you can also use translated page names if MoinMoin knows about the translation), and I wrote an extension to allow the display of translations for a given page (like similar Wikipedia/MediaWiki functionality). I wouldn't have a problem with such functionality on the Python Wiki, but it would need installing, and as far as I understand it the system administrators are rather conservative about what they install. Anyway, I hope this gives you some options. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Editing the wiki
On Tuesday 19. November 2013 14.04.52 Alexandro Colorado wrote: Thanks for your help, the reason why I wrote to the list is precisely because I couldn't submit my editing to the SpanishLanguage page. Unless the page has been recently unlocked. I'll try again. I can't see any obvious technical reason why you shouldn't be able to edit that page, but I'll certainly try and look at any problems that may prevent you from editing. [...] I also want to know about the non-wiki site, and how can I add or request changes (see my other email on the topic). If you know about this process please let me know. I don't personally have anything to do with the non-wiki site, but the following links might be of interest: https://www.python.org/about/website/ https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonWebsite I include the raw text of the modified page, to see if someone else have any issues applying the changes: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/3635025 OK, I'll see if you're successful, but if you aren't, I'll try and give you access and also make any edits for you that you need to make. If you could report any errors then that would be useful, too. I suppose that errors you've seen up to now have been of the kind You do not have permission to edit this page or something like that. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Hardcore is not only porn
On Tuesday 19. November 2013 15.58.15 M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 19.11.2013 15:38, Alexandro Colorado wrote: On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 8:29 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 19.11.2013 14:46, anatoly techtonik wrote: wiki.python.org doesn't allow the word hardcore in contents, which is a bad filter choice, because, well, some talks about Python internals are hardcore for the most users out there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hardcore I've made the filter more selective. Of course, the need to use hardcore frequently in a reference like the Python Wiki is somewhat debatable. :-) I had a related experiencie with ambien which I am not sure if it is even a word. Originally it was part of Python tambien ... so the word would be tambien yet the filter capture it partially. Thanks. I've fixed that one as well. Ambien is a drug which some spammers tried to promote on the wiki. Yes, this is the reason for the unfortunate problem with editing. I hope you'll forgive us for the inconvenience you have experienced, Alexandro. Such spam patterns used to be very important tools in preventing people from vandalising existing content and creating huge amounts of spam content on the wiki, and you only need to look at certain public wiki installations to see what occurs when no such measures are in place. I would argue that anti-spam measures need to be a bit more varied these days, though, and I've written about that on this list in the recent past, I believe. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Editing the wiki
On Monday 18. November 2013 23.42.03 Alexandro Colorado wrote: Hi I tried to edit the wiki but I am not sure if there is a protocol for contributors as some of the pages are 'locked' and can't accept changes. Should I get in touch with the original author/mantainer of the page? Those of us with administrative rights tend to lock down repeatedly spammed pages because it gets tiresome to have to revert such contributions all the time. If you could tell me/us which pages would you like to edit and what your wiki username is, I/we can probably give you access. Paul P.S. The wiki guidelines are here: https://wiki.python.org/moin/WikiGuidelines ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Python Wiki Spam
On Monday 18 March 2013 19:00:37 Radomir Dopieralski wrote: On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Paul Boddie p...@boddie.org.uk wrote: Hello, We're getting a fair amount of spam on the Python Wiki. Can someone with administrative privileges check that the textcha feature is enabled and has been given a set of effective questions? You can see that it is enabled by visiting this link: http://wiki.python.org/moin/FrontPage?action=newaccount (make sure you are logged out) As for the questions, I'm open to suggestions. I don't think How many words are in this question? is really setting the bar very high for spammers. Textcha questions are supposed to retain the context of the site on which they are placed so that bulk spamming cannot just scrape the question and serve it up to someone on some other site. This means that we should be asking Python-related questions, not simple Are you human? questions that ceased to be effective about ten years ago. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Python Decorators
On Saturday 02 March 2013 17:08:23 anatoly techtonik wrote: I think it is fair to put non-HomePage wiki content to CC0 / Public Domain unless specified otherwise. If you want to preserve your rights - go publish the content in your blog and supply a link. Tracking down authors is a useless activity - nobody will do this, so I'd not make things more complicated for contributors and users. Wiki is for sharing, not for placing restrictions on each other. I agree that if you're contributing stuff to some site where the obvious intention is to share things with others, you probably shouldn't expect to restrict how that content is used, especially if those contributions involve editing other people's work, but the lack of any explicit licensing terms means that we can't just apply CC0 to what we already have. I don't think that it would be too difficult to get people to agree to relicensing, but I was just saying that nobody seemed to think it was worth doing in the first place. Personally, I do think it is worth it if we are to regard the content as useful or valuable, and if Justin wants to use the decorators content in some other context, I encourage him to at least consider that approach for that page before giving up. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: JavaScript problem
On Thursday 28 February 2013 19:22:02 M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 28.02.2013 17:57, Michael Foord wrote: We have at least one user who is using the LibreJS extension that blocks javascript not known to be free (in the ideological sense). Parts of python.org break when you do this. I promised I would forward this feedback to the web team. It looks like the google calendars break (no surprise) and also the sphinx search for the python documentation (really a sphinx issue instead of a python.org web team issue). Google calendars show some HTML when JS is no working. It's not pretty, though. I'd say we close this as won't fix :-) Is it not sufficient to have the JavaScript that is under the control of the Sphinx project tagged with a Free Software licence, however this is supposed to be done, so that LibreJS is happy about it? The inquirer may wish to follow up on this with the Sphinx developers. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] (PEP )?redirector service
On Monday 11 February 2013 20:30:10 M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 11.02.2013 16:18, anatoly techtonik wrote: Hi. Right now to go to pep from an URL, you have to type exactly: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008 What is needed to create redirector service on peps.python.org that sends all the following URLs to the page above? http://peps.python.org/8 http://peps.python.org/pep8 http://peps.python.org/pep-08 http://peps.python.org/0008 http://peps.python.org/peps-0008 A host entry on some level of DNS server and some Apache directives? I think it's better to link directly to the correct URL. If you want shorter URLs, there are plenty URL shorteners out there. Many browsers also allow customizing search, so you could add a PEP search to your browser. There are always concerns about general link shorteners: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-September/587768.html Some go beyond the practicalities, too: http://www.selenic.com/pipermail/mercurial/2010-March/030444.html As for browsers and custom searches, there are also search engines that recognise things like PEPs: https://duckduckgo.com/bang.html Amusingly, !pep 8 sends me to the following, outdated location: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8/ I seem to remember some discussion about shortening python.org URLs, but I can't find anything about it at the moment. It might be useful to have a more memorable way of referring to PEPs, but allowing all sorts of alternatives is just inviting people to rely on potentially bizarre spellings that one day may no longer work. See above for an example. ;-) So, I think that peps.python.org is potentially a good idea and might be provided fairly easily with a rewrite rule, but too much magic is just not worth having: it's only when pages become completely undiscoverable that guess the URL becomes worthwhile, and then time would arguably be better spent improving navigation on the site concerned. Paul P.S. To take an example, typing dell.com/linux takes you to Dell's current secret page about Linux that you just know will be moved around, obscured in favour of Dell recommends Microsoft Windows 8 adverts, hidden, removed, lost, and so on, but that is only a useful shortcut because such sites make searching and navigation so awkward and awful otherwise. ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Changing default wiki permissions
Aahz wrote: On Thu, Jan 24, 2013, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: We're currently working on setting up the new VM with the Python and Jython wikis. In order to increase security and also to help a bit with avoiding spam/vandalism, we'd like to disable editing of wiki pages without login. Any objections ? That was in fact the setup previously, and I strongly support reverting to it. As Barry notes, there are some pages that will need a higher level of protection, but as long as we've got off-VM backups, we can handle any mishaps. Indeed. I don't buy into the myth that people perpetuate about Wikis having to allow anonymous access or otherwise be instruments of The Man, or whatever. The Internet is full of people who will happily pollute any editable site with their idiotic spams and scams, and some fairly basic measures will deter the bulk of these people. I recommend... Requiring some kind of login. This actually makes it easier for the editors to see at a glance who has edited a page (Aahz rather than, say, 123-client.456-server.verizon.com) and make a quick judgement about whether the edit needs investigating. We can support OpenID - you can even use your Python Package Index identity! - and so don't even need to make people set and remember distinct passwords. Maintaining the textcha protection for random newcomers. I appreciate that textcha questions can be a pain - on one Wiki I use, the questions required a fair amount of research on my part because I am a mere developer and not part of the target audience - but we can migrate people quickly to a group/list that doesn't get bothered with questions. Textcha can be very effective: on some sites I've seen where they turned the feature on, spam was more or less eliminated. Having some kind of mechanism for managing new user registration. I wouldn't want to impose the approval of new users because it stops the quick-but-good edits of people who are new to the Wiki but want to fix something, but it is the case that there may be a lot of registration spam, meaning that the Wiki fills up with users who will never succeed in making an edit because they can't answer the textcha questions. Maybe there are already tools that deal with this. If not, I may be encouraged to write something. Beyond this, we could introduce edit approval for random newcomers - I wrote something that puts edits in approval queues - but this is really something for a site where you want the barrier to editing to be very low but the barrier to publishing to be much higher. For the Python Wikis, the barrier to editing should be low but not *very* low, and the barrier to publishing should not be significantly higher. Finally, I would like to thank Marc-André for his forensic and recovery work as well as Thomas and Reimar for their work in attempting to restore the content. Once again, the PSF should be thanked for making resources available for the improvement of MoinMoin in various respects. Ensuring the vitality of widely-used Python projects like MoinMoin is an essential part of ensuring the vitality of Python itself. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] [Infrastructure] Wiki news?
On Friday 18 January 2013 22:50:10 Brian Curtin wrote: Speaking of improving it: on Wednesday, the PSF approved a grant to expedite development efforts that the MoinMoin team is putting in to using passlib for their password handling. This is a most welcome development. Although there may be people who argue that usage of this library is overdue, any effort or initiative that can encourage more sharing and collaboration amongst Python Web projects and revive channels like the Web SIG, so that best practices can be propagated and projects may look after each other instead of justifying factionalism through the idea that there must be winners and losers, is an initiative worth supporting. Thanks for keeping us informed! Paul P.S. Personally, I'd either not heard of passlib or had forgotten about its existence, but then again I'm not doing password handling myself on a day-to-day basis. ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
[pydotorg-www] Wiki ACLs
Stefan Drees wrote: Am 06.12.12 18:31, schrieb Skip Montanaro: I finally got around to this today. I added a PythonTrainingGroup page: http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTrainingGroup Thanks for doing the hard work! This lists a few known trainers. Marilyn Davis confirmed that she can edit the PythonTraining page: http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining I can edit it as well, but that's because I'm in the AdminGroup. Can someone who is not in the AdminGroup and not listed in the PythonTrainingGroup page check the PythonTraining page to make sure it appears immutable for you? To me it looks immutable. URL = http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining On the left under Page I see Immutable Page Yes, I think everything is as it should be. I think that the initial problem may have been related to not being logged in, as the ACL was only letting people who are in the Known category (which is everyone who is effectively logged in or returning the Moin cookie) edit the page, and I see that Marilyn edited it back in September as a logged in user. If people don't want to have to maintain separate Moin account details, we could once again consider the OpenID support, I suppose. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
[pydotorg-www] Wiki is too slow (Fwd: 1.2 beta release date/roadmap)
anatoly techtonik wrote: On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Martin v. Löwis martin at v.loewis.de wrote: Is it possible to speed up wiki.python.org somehow? Hopefully by migrating it to the new infrastructure. It appears it didn't help. Creating of a new page took 35seconds, which is twice the worst editing operation that I personally experienced with previous install. Did we look into the potential problem with mail notifications...? http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/2012-June/001841.html See also this: http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/GetSubscribersSlow Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Internal Server Error while reverting spam
On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 s...@pobox.com wrote: anatoly And it could be a little easier to type wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody anatoly could adjust web-server configuration accordingly. There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and Jython wikis. At least there used to be. Now I see the selector page briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the Python wiki. Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it makes sense to eliminate the /moin part, and I guess that this was changed. I must admit that I haven't been following this list for some time, so I'm sorry if I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing. As a person who monitors both wikis (at least for spam postings, if not actual content), I'm a little disappointed that I can no longer go to wiki.python.org then select which wiki I want to dive into. Doesn't wiki.jython.org direct you to the Jython Wiki? Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Internal Server Error while reverting spam
On Thursday 01 December 2011 00:27:49 Richard Jones wrote: On 1 December 2011 10:07, Carl Karsten c...@personnelware.com wrote: They are not needed for legitimate use. I respectfully disagree. It's significantly easier to promote: j.mp/mpug than wiki.python.org/moin/MelbournePUG That may be the case, but *on* the Wiki, there's absolutely no reason why people can't use full URLs referring to the actual resource in question (but see my remarks below). The reason why I disallowed shortened URLs is that it's easy for people to post spam links and there be absolutely no initial indication that this is what they are. I certainly don't feel like checking random links to who-knows-where just because people don't want to be transparent about where they are linking to. I believe that such links primarily benefit spammers/scammers/tricksters (who don't want people to see where they are going) and people using Twitter (who are constrained by whichever architectural limitation that service still has), along with people needing to promote an easy-to-remember URL by word of mouth or on physical objects, potentially in that order. I accept that from trustworthy people like yourself, the promotional benefit outweighs the I feel lucky part of the experience that comes from using these URLs, but the balance is different when random people on the Internet are posting them to one's site. It is unfortunate if people don't get a nice error message if their edits are disallowed, but I am willing to improve that (without telling spammers how to defeat anti-spam mechanisms) if it would be appreciated - the internal server error probably shouldn't happen, and that may be fixed somehow by a review of the configuration. If you think that trusted users shouldn't be prevented from using shortened URLs that are mentioned for promotional purposes, say, then I am also willing to work towards a solution. This isn't empty rhetoric - I've already developed things like edit approval functionality for Moin, even though I doubt that it will ever be deployed because of cries of censorship or general inconvenience, just so that I have something to offer if/when people start to say that policing Wikis is too much work - so if you think that improvement is needed, I am prepared to spend some time making that improvement. I am sorry for the inconvenience caused, but please understand the motivation for eliminating what could easily be a source of significant additional work for those of us who volunteer to maintain this resource. Paul P.S. I also find it interesting that a bunch of people happily used domains leased from a now-defunct North African regime (some of whom walked the tightrope more happily than others, though) without any second thought, but that's a separate concern. Personally, I never gave it much thought myself, but then I largely ignored what the Web 2.0 crowd were doing until someone in the Mercurial community raised the matter in the context of mailing list messages. ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Jython wiki is still getting spammed
On Tuesday 26 April 2011 17:00:27 A.M. Kuchling wrote: If that's so, I don't know what can be done about this, other than making the textchas harder or just restricting editing of the Jython wiki to a limited list of people, which might be OK if the Jython community agrees -- not many people edit the wiki. I've seen this kind of spamming on other Wikis, but banning the users and blacklisting their sites keeps the spamming down somewhat. This is, after all, nothing like some really aggressive spamming I saw once where there would be tens of pages created or changed per day, all involving content containing strings of hexadecimal- or base64-like values. On occasions like this, I wish address-blocking were more readily pursuable with Moin, since the spamming appears to involve the same IP address, and I've seen edits from hosted servers being used for spamming. But maybe better textchas might be the answer - the Python Wiki seems to manage just fine on that basis. We could add rel=nofollow to the links to deny the spammers pagerank, but are they sophisticated enough to notice? (They certainly aren't noticing that we delete pages pretty quickly.) I don't think spammers care: they create new pages that aren't really linked to from the rest of the site (apart from via RecentChanges and other dynamic pages/content); it's all an attempt to feed search engines in some way, whether there's an actual effect or not. As long as they can create pages on a site, they'll just do it as a write-only activity. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] Upgrades completed
On Thursday 03 March 2011 13:45:57 Radomir Dopieralski wrote: I volunteered to update and maintain the python wiki, but somehow never found the time to sort out all the details. Now that I did, I hope to help with the wiki on regular basis, and also add any changes and details that might be needed for it. This is great news! Thank you for installing the theme and making it work on the Python Wiki. Going back to your question, I consider the theme to be finished -- that is, I don't plan to make huge changes to it. I will, however, not abandon it, and I will continue to fix any problems that are reported and add improvements that are desired. I keep the theme in a mercurial repository at htttp://devel.sheep.art.pl/europython, but I can move it somewhere, like bitbucket, if needed. Of course all collaboration on improving it is welcome. I think the theme works very well for the given purpose. My own suggestions for improvements would involve separate extensions or patches. An example of the latter category is a patch I have for making the edit spans one sees in RecentChanges (for example, [1-3]) selectable, so that one can see groups of changes made by an individual a lot quicker than going through the info page and manually selecting the range of diffs to be shown. With regard to such patches, I don't know what the situation is with Moin 1.x and whether there's any interest in adding such enhancements, but I've submitted a few patches like that to the Moin project anyway. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
Re: [pydotorg-www] copyrights in the wiki?
On Sunday 27 February 2011 00:16:20 s...@pobox.com wrote: Do we care about people adding copyrights to wiki pages (or the code therein)? http://wiki.python.org/moin/State%20Machine%20via%20Decorators In this case, it makes more sense for the code to be attached. If it then has copyright and licence information, which is arguably desirable, then this is not really a problem. What is more of a problem is when such information is added to a page without being clear what the scope of the claim is, although the revision history can help us to figure that out. There's never been a copyright/licensing policy on the Python Wiki as long as I've had anything to do with it, probably leading to some initiatives being abandoned because of this. For example: http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonCdWiki What one should do to remedy this situation, if that is considered necessary in order to let the content be delivered by other means, is rather unclear. Paul ___ pydotorg-www mailing list pydotorg-www@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
