Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[Miriam English]

Claudio, I expect it wouldn't be difficult to point the pygame.org 
domain to the content on ibiblio or archive.org, or sourceforge, or 
whatever. Dynamic content might be difficult though.


claudio canepa wrote:
@Miriam: all the examples you gave points to the hosting domain ( 
ibiblio.org  ); we want pygame.org 
 or similar with a hosting that allows DNS 
redirection from pygame.org  to the content. That 
way, if at some future time we want to migrate or add a non-static 
part all that is needed is to change the DNS entries.


Probably size is not a problem : pygame site provides docs, articles 
and game announcements; it does not host the game downloads.




On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Miriam English 
> wrote:


The two repositories I mentioned, ibiblio.org 
and archive.org  (I'm sure there are more)
have, as far as I know, no limits on storage.

Have a look, for instance at the amount stored for Puppy Linux at
ibiblio:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/


Each of those subdirectories you see relates to a different kind
of Puppy.

The packages directories contain programs specifically tailored
for a particular distribution of Puppy. The pet_packages-lucid
directory alone contains more than 10 Gigabytes of programs, and
there are more than 30 Puppy distros with associated package
collections.

The puppy-528 directory contains a couple of ISO CD images for
Puppy Lucid 528. It also contains an explanatory webpage:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-5.2.8/release-Lucid-528.htm


Most of the main distro directories contain such a page.

There is lots more on ibiblio, as a quick wander around
http://distro.ibiblio.org/ will show.
They also have multiple mirrors around the world, so if one set of
servers has a problem others are available.

Cheers,

- Miriam


Charles Cossé wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Miriam English

>> wrote:

I don't see the point of using github for the web pages and
keeping the content elsewhere. I don't have a lot of
experience
using github (I find it a pain actually). Github is
intended as a
versioning system. That has no utility for a pygame
repository, as
far as I can see -- or at least no advantage over an ordinary
repository built purely with that purpose in mind.

Wouldn't it be simpler to keep the whole thing in a
repository? I
mentioned 2 earlier: archive.org 
 and
ibiblio.org  , both of
which are free and very

secure.


I can say a little bit that might help until someone with more
knowledge has time to reply ... With GitHub pages your website
is "just another" repo.  That's the main thing I wanted to
point out.  There are no storage limits, and I'm pretty sure
that GitHub would be happy to help pygame accomodation-wise if
pygame needed anything special (within reason).   I also know
that there is a 4 gigabyte file limit on GitHub.  (I know this
because I once wanted to host an 8G SD card image and had to
get it down to 4G in order to be housed on GitHub).

FWIW, I have also managed to run webapps on GitHub via GitHub
pages.  For example
http://asymptopia.github.io/TuxMathScrabble-2015/
.

And, not trying to direct traffic to my site or anything, but
here's my own site using GitHub pages:
https://asymptopia.github.io/

Best regards,
Charles

Cheers,

- Miriam


Thomas Kluyver wrote:

Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making
progress, I'd like to propose:

- The informational site will be hosted on Github
pages; I've
used this for a number of websites before, it's
reliable, we
can point an external domain to it, and I imagine that
most of
the likely contributors have Github accounts already.
- The pages will be generated by a Python static site
generator. There doesn't seem to be a strong feeling
between
Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so it will likely depend on who
 

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[claudio canepa]

@Miriam: all the examples you gave points to the hosting domain (
ibiblio.org ); we want pygame.org or similar with a hosting that allows DNS
redirection from pygame.org to the content. That way, if at some future
time we want to migrate or add a non-static part all that is needed is to
change the DNS entries.

Probably size is not a problem : pygame site provides docs, articles and
game announcements; it does not host the game downloads.



On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Miriam English 
wrote:

> The two repositories I mentioned, ibiblio.org and archive.org (I'm sure
> there are more) have, as far as I know, no limits on storage.
>
> Have a look, for instance at the amount stored for Puppy Linux at ibiblio:
> http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/
>
> Each of those subdirectories you see relates to a different kind of Puppy.
>
> The packages directories contain programs specifically tailored for a
> particular distribution of Puppy. The pet_packages-lucid directory alone
> contains more than 10 Gigabytes of programs, and there are more than 30
> Puppy distros with associated package collections.
>
> The puppy-528 directory contains a couple of ISO CD images for Puppy Lucid
> 528. It also contains an explanatory webpage:
> http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-5.2.8/release-Lucid-528.htm
>
> Most of the main distro directories contain such a page.
>
> There is lots more on ibiblio, as a quick wander around
> http://distro.ibiblio.org/ will show.
> They also have multiple mirrors around the world, so if one set of servers
> has a problem others are available.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Miriam
>
>
> Charles Cossé wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Miriam English > > wrote:
>>
>> I don't see the point of using github for the web pages and
>> keeping the content elsewhere. I don't have a lot of experience
>> using github (I find it a pain actually). Github is intended as a
>> versioning system. That has no utility for a pygame repository, as
>> far as I can see -- or at least no advantage over an ordinary
>> repository built purely with that purpose in mind.
>>
>> Wouldn't it be simpler to keep the whole thing in a repository? I
>> mentioned 2 earlier: archive.org  and
>> ibiblio.org , both of which are free and very
>>
>> secure.
>>
>>
>> I can say a little bit that might help until someone with more knowledge
>> has time to reply ... With GitHub pages your website is "just another"
>> repo.  That's the main thing I wanted to point out.  There are no storage
>> limits, and I'm pretty sure that GitHub would be happy to help pygame
>> accomodation-wise if pygame needed anything special (within reason).   I
>> also know that there is a 4 gigabyte file limit on GitHub.  (I know this
>> because I once wanted to host an 8G SD card image and had to get it down to
>> 4G in order to be housed on GitHub).
>>
>> FWIW, I have also managed to run webapps on GitHub via GitHub pages.  For
>> example http://asymptopia.github.io/TuxMathScrabble-2015/.
>>
>> And, not trying to direct traffic to my site or anything, but here's my
>> own site using GitHub pages: https://asymptopia.github.io/
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Charles
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Miriam
>>
>>
>> Thomas Kluyver wrote:
>>
>> Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making
>> progress, I'd like to propose:
>>
>> - The informational site will be hosted on Github pages; I've
>> used this for a number of websites before, it's reliable, we
>> can point an external domain to it, and I imagine that most of
>> the likely contributors have Github accounts already.
>> - The pages will be generated by a Python static site
>> generator. There doesn't seem to be a strong feeling between
>> Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so it will likely depend on who is most
>> excited to start building it.
>> - The game feed will also be generated from content in Github,
>> so /at first/ developers will need to submit a PR to add a
>> game. Once that's working, we can build a simpler submission
>> interface on Heroku/Appengine/similar which can push content
>> to Github. Ideally the data will be in a format which would
>> could move elsewhere later if necessary.
>>
>> I like the concept of drawing the game feed from an external
>> source, but I don't think any of the sources proposed match
>> what we want closely enough.
>>
>> Does anybody object to any of those proposals?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Thomas
>>
>> On 18 December 2016 at 20:18, Miriam English
>> 
>> >
>> >> wrote:

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[Miriam English]

Daniel, fair enough. A user-friendly submission system that can be 
fairly well automated without opening itself to the blasted spammers 
would be a very good thing. The two I mentioned (archive.org and 
ibiblio.org) are not that. They are secure, but restricted in who can 
upload. Game developers would have to send their products to a core 
group (perhaps via this list). Everybody could check out the product and 
the core group member(s) could upload it.


Is it possible to have something that is safe, but easy for newbies to 
add games to a site? I'm tempted to say it's impossible, but in the past 
when I've said that about anything it's come back to bite me. :)


Cheers,

- Miriam


Daniel Foerster wrote:

Miriam,

I think you're missing the issue here. Almost all of the content would 
be put in GitHub (Thomas even suggests that everything go there). 
Using ibiblio.org/archive.org  doesn't 
help us any as far as the game showcase goes, which is the main matter 
of debate; you're still trying to find a good user-friendly way to 
submit content without opening the door wide open for abuse.


On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Miriam English 
> wrote:


I don't see the point of using github for the web pages and
keeping the content elsewhere. I don't have a lot of experience
using github (I find it a pain actually). Github is intended as a
versioning system. That has no utility for a pygame repository, as
far as I can see -- or at least no advantage over an ordinary
repository built purely with that purpose in mind.

Wouldn't it be simpler to keep the whole thing in a repository? I
mentioned 2 earlier: archive.org  and
ibiblio.org , both of which are free and very
secure.

Cheers,

- Miriam


Thomas Kluyver wrote:

Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making
progress, I'd like to propose:

- The informational site will be hosted on Github pages; I've
used this for a number of websites before, it's reliable, we
can point an external domain to it, and I imagine that most of
the likely contributors have Github accounts already.
- The pages will be generated by a Python static site
generator. There doesn't seem to be a strong feeling between
Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so it will likely depend on who is most
excited to start building it.
- The game feed will also be generated from content in Github,
so /at first/ developers will need to submit a PR to add a
game. Once that's working, we can build a simpler submission
interface on Heroku/Appengine/similar which can push content
to Github. Ideally the data will be in a format which would
could move elsewhere later if necessary.

I like the concept of drawing the game feed from an external
source, but I don't think any of the sources proposed match
what we want closely enough.

Does anybody object to any of those proposals?

Thanks,
Thomas

On 18 December 2016 at 20:18, Miriam English

>> wrote:

http://ibiblio.org is an enormous, free repository that also lets
you have static webpages. Many of the Linux distros are hosted
from there as well as much else too. I don't know how
you'd set up
a comments system there. It may be possible.

http://archive.org is another gigantic free repository. They
already have a comments system built into their pages. I don't
know how it works. It might be worth checking out.

Both these organisations are free and are aimed at helping
make
content available to the community which might otherwise
be lost.
You have complete control over the look of webpages at
ibiblio.org 
 because you simply upload static pages.

I don't know how much control over the look archive.org

 provides because everything is dynamically

served from xml data, I think. It might be possible to add
static
content, I don't know.

But both are free, permanently available, and have
excellent security.

Cheers,

- Miriam



Peter Shinners wrote:

Gitlab also has great static site support for free,
and you
can use custom domains. They also make it easy to run most
static generation tools as a CI job. Although part of me
thinks just 

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[Miriam English]

The two repositories I mentioned, ibiblio.org and archive.org (I'm sure 
there are more) have, as far as I know, no limits on storage.


Have a look, for instance at the amount stored for Puppy Linux at ibiblio:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/

Each of those subdirectories you see relates to a different kind of Puppy.

The packages directories contain programs specifically tailored for a 
particular distribution of Puppy. The pet_packages-lucid directory alone 
contains more than 10 Gigabytes of programs, and there are more than 30 
Puppy distros with associated package collections.


The puppy-528 directory contains a couple of ISO CD images for Puppy 
Lucid 528. It also contains an explanatory webpage:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-5.2.8/release-Lucid-528.htm

Most of the main distro directories contain such a page.

There is lots more on ibiblio, as a quick wander around 
http://distro.ibiblio.org/ will show.
They also have multiple mirrors around the world, so if one set of 
servers has a problem others are available.


Cheers,

- Miriam


Charles Cossé wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Miriam English 
> wrote:


I don't see the point of using github for the web pages and
keeping the content elsewhere. I don't have a lot of experience
using github (I find it a pain actually). Github is intended as a
versioning system. That has no utility for a pygame repository, as
far as I can see -- or at least no advantage over an ordinary
repository built purely with that purpose in mind.

Wouldn't it be simpler to keep the whole thing in a repository? I
mentioned 2 earlier: archive.org  and
ibiblio.org , both of which are free and very
secure.


I can say a little bit that might help until someone with more 
knowledge has time to reply ... With GitHub pages your website is 
"just another" repo.  That's the main thing I wanted to point out.  
There are no storage limits, and I'm pretty sure that GitHub would be 
happy to help pygame accomodation-wise if pygame needed anything 
special (within reason).   I also know that there is a 4 gigabyte file 
limit on GitHub.  (I know this because I once wanted to host an 8G SD 
card image and had to get it down to 4G in order to be housed on GitHub).


FWIW, I have also managed to run webapps on GitHub via GitHub pages.  
For example http://asymptopia.github.io/TuxMathScrabble-2015/.


And, not trying to direct traffic to my site or anything, but here's 
my own site using GitHub pages: https://asymptopia.github.io/


Best regards,
Charles

Cheers,

- Miriam


Thomas Kluyver wrote:

Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making
progress, I'd like to propose:

- The informational site will be hosted on Github pages; I've
used this for a number of websites before, it's reliable, we
can point an external domain to it, and I imagine that most of
the likely contributors have Github accounts already.
- The pages will be generated by a Python static site
generator. There doesn't seem to be a strong feeling between
Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so it will likely depend on who is most
excited to start building it.
- The game feed will also be generated from content in Github,
so /at first/ developers will need to submit a PR to add a
game. Once that's working, we can build a simpler submission
interface on Heroku/Appengine/similar which can push content
to Github. Ideally the data will be in a format which would
could move elsewhere later if necessary.

I like the concept of drawing the game feed from an external
source, but I don't think any of the sources proposed match
what we want closely enough.

Does anybody object to any of those proposals?

Thanks,
Thomas

On 18 December 2016 at 20:18, Miriam English

>> wrote:

http://ibiblio.org is an enormous, free repository that also lets
you have static webpages. Many of the Linux distros are hosted
from there as well as much else too. I don't know how
you'd set up
a comments system there. It may be possible.

http://archive.org is another gigantic free repository. They
already have a comments system built into their pages. I don't
know how it works. It might be worth checking out.

Both these organisations are free and are aimed at helping
make
content available to the community which might otherwise
be lost.
You have complete control over the look of webpages at
ibiblio.org 

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[Daniel Foerster]

Miriam,

I think you're missing the issue here. Almost all of the content would be
put in GitHub (Thomas even suggests that everything go there). Using
ibiblio.org/archive.org doesn't help us any as far as the game showcase
goes, which is the main matter of debate; you're still trying to find a
good user-friendly way to submit content without opening the door wide open
for abuse.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Miriam English 
wrote:

> I don't see the point of using github for the web pages and keeping the
> content elsewhere. I don't have a lot of experience using github (I find it
> a pain actually). Github is intended as a versioning system. That has no
> utility for a pygame repository, as far as I can see -- or at least no
> advantage over an ordinary repository built purely with that purpose in
> mind.
>
> Wouldn't it be simpler to keep the whole thing in a repository? I
> mentioned 2 earlier: archive.org and ibiblio.org, both of which are free
> and very secure.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Miriam
>
>
> Thomas Kluyver wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making progress, I'd
>> like to propose:
>>
>> - The informational site will be hosted on Github pages; I've used this
>> for a number of websites before, it's reliable, we can point an external
>> domain to it, and I imagine that most of the likely contributors have
>> Github accounts already.
>> - The pages will be generated by a Python static site generator. There
>> doesn't seem to be a strong feeling between Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so it
>> will likely depend on who is most excited to start building it.
>> - The game feed will also be generated from content in Github, so /at
>> first/ developers will need to submit a PR to add a game. Once that's
>> working, we can build a simpler submission interface on
>> Heroku/Appengine/similar which can push content to Github. Ideally the data
>> will be in a format which would could move elsewhere later if necessary.
>>
>> I like the concept of drawing the game feed from an external source, but
>> I don't think any of the sources proposed match what we want closely enough.
>>
>> Does anybody object to any of those proposals?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Thomas
>>
>> On 18 December 2016 at 20:18, Miriam English > > wrote:
>>
>> http://ibiblio.org is an enormous, free repository that also lets
>> you have static webpages. Many of the Linux distros are hosted
>> from there as well as much else too. I don't know how you'd set up
>> a comments system there. It may be possible.
>>
>> http://archive.org is another gigantic free repository. They
>> already have a comments system built into their pages. I don't
>> know how it works. It might be worth checking out.
>>
>> Both these organisations are free and are aimed at helping make
>> content available to the community which might otherwise be lost.
>> You have complete control over the look of webpages at ibiblio.org
>>  because you simply upload static pages.
>>
>> I don't know how much control over the look archive.org
>>  provides because everything is dynamically
>>
>> served from xml data, I think. It might be possible to add static
>> content, I don't know.
>>
>> But both are free, permanently available, and have excellent security.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Miriam
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Shinners wrote:
>>
>> Gitlab also has great static site support for free, and you
>> can use custom domains. They also make it easy to run most
>> static generation tools as a CI job. Although part of me
>> thinks just pushing the static content is easiest. It sounds
>> to me like there's a list of acceptable hosting choices that
>> won't cost anything.
>>
>> Keeping the games list as a feed from other service sounds
>> like it has the best chance of working.
>>
>>
>> On 12/17/2016 10:51 PM, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
>>
>> Bitbucket also has static web site support. I set one up
>> for the Pygame docs awhile ago, but have not maintained it:
>>
>> http://pygame.bitbucket.org/docs/pygame/
>> 
>>
>> The repository is here:
>>
>> https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame.bitbucket.org
>> 
>>
>> Lenard Lindstrom
>>
>> On 16-12-17 09:16 PM, Daniel Foerster wrote:
>>
>> You know, I suppose we could just use GitHub pages.
>>
>> On Dec 17, 2016 17:32, "Charles Cossé"
>> 
>> >>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:12 PM, 

[pygame] pygame.pixelcopy.array_to_surface(Dest, Src) not working

[Mikhail V]

Hello all,

I think this was somewhere discussed, but I cannot find and this
does not work for me.
So I want to use this function to copy numpy array values to a
surface. I think I do everything right, but it does not work.
pygame version: 1.9.2a0, Windows 7, python 2.7.12

So I use this function, which also checks the shape of input and surface:

def copy_arr(Dest, Src):
surf_w = Dest.get_width()
surf_h = Dest.get_height()
surf_bs = Dest.get_bitsize()
arr_h = Src.shape[0]
arr_w = Src.shape[1]
arr_bs = Src.dtype
print "surface shape: {} x {}".format(surf_w, surf_h)
print "surface format: {} ".format(surf_bs)
#get_bytesize
print "array shape: {} x {}".format(arr_w, arr_h)
print "array type: {} ".format(arr_bs)
pygame.pixelcopy.array_to_surface(Dest, Src)

It gives me:


surface shape: 300 x 200
surface format: 8
array shape: 300 x 200
array type: uint8
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "fmap.py", line 69, in 
copy_arr(I_surf, I)
  File "fmap.py", line 30, in copy_arr
pygame.pixelcopy.array_to_surface(Dest, Src)
ValueError: array must match surface dimensions

I create them like:

W = 300
H = 200

I = numpy.zeros((H, W),dtype = "uint8")
I_surf = pygame.Surface((W, H), 0, 8)

So, seems the problem is not in me. Same error is for surfarray.blit_array
(), but
I think it depends on pixelcopy.

Aslo this function works fine, which I use now:

def copy_arr(Dest, Src):
buf = Dest.get_buffer()
buf.write(Src.tostring(), 0)

I just thought there must be more effective way to do it.
Hope somebody will clear that out.

Mikhail

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[Charles Cossé]

Hi,

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Miriam English 
wrote:

> I don't see the point of using github for the web pages and keeping the
> content elsewhere. I don't have a lot of experience using github (I find it
> a pain actually). Github is intended as a versioning system. That has no
> utility for a pygame repository, as far as I can see -- or at least no
> advantage over an ordinary repository built purely with that purpose in
> mind.
>
> Wouldn't it be simpler to keep the whole thing in a repository? I
> mentioned 2 earlier: archive.org and ibiblio.org, both of which are free
> and very secure.
>
>
I can say a little bit that might help until someone with more knowledge
has time to reply ... With GitHub pages your website is "just another"
repo.  That's the main thing I wanted to point out.  There are no storage
limits, and I'm pretty sure that GitHub would be happy to help pygame
accomodation-wise if pygame needed anything special (within reason).   I
also know that there is a 4 gigabyte file limit on GitHub.  (I know this
because I once wanted to host an 8G SD card image and had to get it down to
4G in order to be housed on GitHub).

FWIW, I have also managed to run webapps on GitHub via GitHub pages.  For
example http://asymptopia.github.io/TuxMathScrabble-2015/.

And, not trying to direct traffic to my site or anything, but here's my own
site using GitHub pages: https://asymptopia.github.io/

Best regards,
Charles



> Cheers,
>
> - Miriam
>
>
> Thomas Kluyver wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making progress, I'd
>> like to propose:
>>
>> - The informational site will be hosted on Github pages; I've used this
>> for a number of websites before, it's reliable, we can point an external
>> domain to it, and I imagine that most of the likely contributors have
>> Github accounts already.
>> - The pages will be generated by a Python static site generator. There
>> doesn't seem to be a strong feeling between Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so it
>> will likely depend on who is most excited to start building it.
>> - The game feed will also be generated from content in Github, so /at
>> first/ developers will need to submit a PR to add a game. Once that's
>> working, we can build a simpler submission interface on
>> Heroku/Appengine/similar which can push content to Github. Ideally the data
>> will be in a format which would could move elsewhere later if necessary.
>>
>> I like the concept of drawing the game feed from an external source, but
>> I don't think any of the sources proposed match what we want closely enough.
>>
>> Does anybody object to any of those proposals?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Thomas
>>
>> On 18 December 2016 at 20:18, Miriam English > > wrote:
>>
>> http://ibiblio.org is an enormous, free repository that also lets
>> you have static webpages. Many of the Linux distros are hosted
>> from there as well as much else too. I don't know how you'd set up
>> a comments system there. It may be possible.
>>
>> http://archive.org is another gigantic free repository. They
>> already have a comments system built into their pages. I don't
>> know how it works. It might be worth checking out.
>>
>> Both these organisations are free and are aimed at helping make
>> content available to the community which might otherwise be lost.
>> You have complete control over the look of webpages at ibiblio.org
>>  because you simply upload static pages.
>>
>> I don't know how much control over the look archive.org
>>  provides because everything is dynamically
>>
>> served from xml data, I think. It might be possible to add static
>> content, I don't know.
>>
>> But both are free, permanently available, and have excellent security.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Miriam
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Shinners wrote:
>>
>> Gitlab also has great static site support for free, and you
>> can use custom domains. They also make it easy to run most
>> static generation tools as a CI job. Although part of me
>> thinks just pushing the static content is easiest. It sounds
>> to me like there's a list of acceptable hosting choices that
>> won't cost anything.
>>
>> Keeping the games list as a feed from other service sounds
>> like it has the best chance of working.
>>
>>
>> On 12/17/2016 10:51 PM, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
>>
>> Bitbucket also has static web site support. I set one up
>> for the Pygame docs awhile ago, but have not maintained it:
>>
>> http://pygame.bitbucket.org/docs/pygame/
>> 
>>
>> The repository is here:
>>
>> https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame.bitbucket.org
>> 

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[Miriam English]

I don't see the point of using github for the web pages and keeping the 
content elsewhere. I don't have a lot of experience using github (I find 
it a pain actually). Github is intended as a versioning system. That has 
no utility for a pygame repository, as far as I can see -- or at least 
no advantage over an ordinary repository built purely with that purpose 
in mind.


Wouldn't it be simpler to keep the whole thing in a repository? I 
mentioned 2 earlier: archive.org and ibiblio.org, both of which are free 
and very secure.


Cheers,

- Miriam


Thomas Kluyver wrote:
Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making progress, 
I'd like to propose:


- The informational site will be hosted on Github pages; I've used 
this for a number of websites before, it's reliable, we can point an 
external domain to it, and I imagine that most of the likely 
contributors have Github accounts already.
- The pages will be generated by a Python static site generator. There 
doesn't seem to be a strong feeling between Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so 
it will likely depend on who is most excited to start building it.
- The game feed will also be generated from content in Github, so /at 
first/ developers will need to submit a PR to add a game. Once that's 
working, we can build a simpler submission interface on 
Heroku/Appengine/similar which can push content to Github. Ideally the 
data will be in a format which would could move elsewhere later if 
necessary.


I like the concept of drawing the game feed from an external source, 
but I don't think any of the sources proposed match what we want 
closely enough.


Does anybody object to any of those proposals?

Thanks,
Thomas

On 18 December 2016 at 20:18, Miriam English > wrote:


http://ibiblio.org is an enormous, free repository that also lets
you have static webpages. Many of the Linux distros are hosted
from there as well as much else too. I don't know how you'd set up
a comments system there. It may be possible.

http://archive.org is another gigantic free repository. They
already have a comments system built into their pages. I don't
know how it works. It might be worth checking out.

Both these organisations are free and are aimed at helping make
content available to the community which might otherwise be lost.
You have complete control over the look of webpages at ibiblio.org
 because you simply upload static pages.

I don't know how much control over the look archive.org
 provides because everything is dynamically
served from xml data, I think. It might be possible to add static
content, I don't know.

But both are free, permanently available, and have excellent security.

Cheers,

- Miriam



Peter Shinners wrote:

Gitlab also has great static site support for free, and you
can use custom domains. They also make it easy to run most
static generation tools as a CI job. Although part of me
thinks just pushing the static content is easiest. It sounds
to me like there's a list of acceptable hosting choices that
won't cost anything.

Keeping the games list as a feed from other service sounds
like it has the best chance of working.


On 12/17/2016 10:51 PM, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:

Bitbucket also has static web site support. I set one up
for the Pygame docs awhile ago, but have not maintained it:

http://pygame.bitbucket.org/docs/pygame/


The repository is here:

https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame.bitbucket.org


Lenard Lindstrom

On 16-12-17 09:16 PM, Daniel Foerster wrote:

You know, I suppose we could just use GitHub pages.

On Dec 17, 2016 17:32, "Charles Cossé"

>>
wrote:



On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Daniel Foerster

>> wrote:

Using S3/CloudFront is a lot cheaper than the
EC2 setup you're
imagining (and which a Django stack would
require).



I never said to use Amazon at all.  Just use the
current server,
whatever it is (unless it's Amazon).

On 12/17/2016 05:11 PM, Charles Cossé wrote:

Yikes!  who's gonna pay the Amazon bill?

On Sat, Dec 17, 

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[William Manire]

What are the data limits for media files in GitHub? Is there any concern
that by merging in all of the games into a single repo that you'll end up
having to pay monthly for storage? If so, who would pick up that bill? What
happens if it isn't paid, do we lose access to the games?

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016, 7:26 AM Thomas Kluyver  wrote:

> Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making progress, I'd
> like to propose:
>
> - The informational site will be hosted on Github pages; I've used this
> for a number of websites before, it's reliable, we can point an external
> domain to it, and I imagine that most of the likely contributors have
> Github accounts already.
> - The pages will be generated by a Python static site generator. There
> doesn't seem to be a strong feeling between Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so it
> will likely depend on who is most excited to start building it.
> - The game feed will also be generated from content in Github, so *at
> first* developers will need to submit a PR to add a game. Once that's
> working, we can build a simpler submission interface on
> Heroku/Appengine/similar which can push content to Github. Ideally the data
> will be in a format which would could move elsewhere later if necessary.
>
> I like the concept of drawing the game feed from an external source, but I
> don't think any of the sources proposed match what we want closely enough.
>
> Does anybody object to any of those proposals?
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> On 18 December 2016 at 20:18, Miriam English 
> wrote:
>
> http://ibiblio.org is an enormous, free repository that also lets you
> have static webpages. Many of the Linux distros are hosted from there as
> well as much else too. I don't know how you'd set up a comments system
> there. It may be possible.
>
> http://archive.org is another gigantic free repository. They already have
> a comments system built into their pages. I don't know how it works. It
> might be worth checking out.
>
> Both these organisations are free and are aimed at helping make content
> available to the community which might otherwise be lost. You have complete
> control over the look of webpages at ibiblio.org because you simply
> upload static pages.
>
> I don't know how much control over the look archive.org provides because
> everything is dynamically served from xml data, I think. It might be
> possible to add static content, I don't know.
>
> But both are free, permanently available, and have excellent security.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Miriam
>
>
>
> Peter Shinners wrote:
>
> Gitlab also has great static site support for free, and you can use custom
> domains. They also make it easy to run most static generation tools as a CI
> job. Although part of me thinks just pushing the static content is easiest.
> It sounds to me like there's a list of acceptable hosting choices that
> won't cost anything.
>
> Keeping the games list as a feed from other service sounds like it has the
> best chance of working.
>
>
> On 12/17/2016 10:51 PM, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
>
> Bitbucket also has static web site support. I set one up for the Pygame
> docs awhile ago, but have not maintained it:
>
> http://pygame.bitbucket.org/docs/pygame/
>
> The repository is here:
>
> https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame.bitbucket.org
>
> Lenard Lindstrom
>
> On 16-12-17 09:16 PM, Daniel Foerster wrote:
>
> You know, I suppose we could just use GitHub pages.
>
> On Dec 17, 2016 17:32, "Charles Cossé" > wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Daniel Foerster
> > wrote:
>
> Using S3/CloudFront is a lot cheaper than the EC2 setup you're
> imagining (and which a Django stack would require).
>
>
>
> I never said to use Amazon at all.  Just use the current server,
> whatever it is (unless it's Amazon).
>
> On 12/17/2016 05:11 PM, Charles Cossé wrote:
>
> Yikes!  who's gonna pay the Amazon bill?
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Paul Vincent Craven
> > wrote:
>
> If most of the site is static, then I think Django would
> be overkill. The static portion of the site can easily be
> deployed via Amazon S3/CloudFront and then we'd not have
> to maintain a server.
>
> Paul Vincent Craven
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Charles Cossé
> > wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Thomas Kluyver
> > wrote:
>
>
> So far, I think the proposals for the static
> information part of the site are Nikola (a static
> site generator oriented around blogs) and Sphinx
> (oriented around docs). Both are written in
> 

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[Thomas Kluyver]

On 22 December 2016 at 16:13, Charles Cossé  wrote:

> I suspect that there are many people, me included, who are familiar with
> parts of the plan you have described, but not all.  For example, knowing
> how to setup GitHub pages, but never having done the daily feed part, or
> not completely clear about static "generation".   So this could become a
> learning experience for a lot of people, if only just as observers.  What
> do you think about taking the extra trouble to make the effort somewhat of
> a class on how to do all these things?


I'm definitely on board with it being a learning experience for people,
though I'd like those people to be more participants than observers! I do
not have the time to build this site myself, so I'm relying on the good
people of this mailing list to make it happen, and trying to limit myself
to coordinating things to make it possible. So if you know anything at all
about HTML or Github pages, and you're willing to learn, you're definitely
welcome.

To expand on what I mean by 'static site generators': a static website is a
set of HTML files, which don't need to run any code on the server. But
editing HTML by hand when you want to change something is a pain. So a
static site generator is a tool which combines HTML templates with content
in a simpler markup language like markdown or restructuredtext, to generate
the HTML pages. A maintainer builds the site and uploads the new pages,
whereas a dynamic web application like Wordpress generates the HTML on the
server. There are loads of different SSGs (it's quite easy to make a simple
one), but Nikola & Pelican are two popular Python ones.

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[Charles Cossé]

Hi Thomas,
I suspect that there are many people, me included, who are familiar with
parts of the plan you have described, but not all.  For example, knowing
how to setup GitHub pages, but never having done the daily feed part, or
not completely clear about static "generation".   So this could become a
learning experience for a lot of people, if only just as observers.  What
do you think about taking the extra trouble to make the effort somewhat of
a class on how to do all these things?
-Charles

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Thomas Kluyver  wrote:

> Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making progress, I'd
> like to propose:
>
> - The informational site will be hosted on Github pages; I've used this
> for a number of websites before, it's reliable, we can point an external
> domain to it, and I imagine that most of the likely contributors have
> Github accounts already.
> - The pages will be generated by a Python static site generator. There
> doesn't seem to be a strong feeling between Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so it
> will likely depend on who is most excited to start building it.
> - The game feed will also be generated from content in Github, so *at
> first* developers will need to submit a PR to add a game. Once that's
> working, we can build a simpler submission interface on
> Heroku/Appengine/similar which can push content to Github. Ideally the data
> will be in a format which would could move elsewhere later if necessary.
>
> I like the concept of drawing the game feed from an external source, but I
> don't think any of the sources proposed match what we want closely enough.
>
> Does anybody object to any of those proposals?
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> On 18 December 2016 at 20:18, Miriam English 
> wrote:
>
>> http://ibiblio.org is an enormous, free repository that also lets you
>> have static webpages. Many of the Linux distros are hosted from there as
>> well as much else too. I don't know how you'd set up a comments system
>> there. It may be possible.
>>
>> http://archive.org is another gigantic free repository. They already
>> have a comments system built into their pages. I don't know how it works.
>> It might be worth checking out.
>>
>> Both these organisations are free and are aimed at helping make content
>> available to the community which might otherwise be lost. You have complete
>> control over the look of webpages at ibiblio.org because you simply
>> upload static pages.
>>
>> I don't know how much control over the look archive.org provides because
>> everything is dynamically served from xml data, I think. It might be
>> possible to add static content, I don't know.
>>
>> But both are free, permanently available, and have excellent security.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Miriam
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Shinners wrote:
>>
>>> Gitlab also has great static site support for free, and you can use
>>> custom domains. They also make it easy to run most static generation tools
>>> as a CI job. Although part of me thinks just pushing the static content is
>>> easiest. It sounds to me like there's a list of acceptable hosting choices
>>> that won't cost anything.
>>>
>>> Keeping the games list as a feed from other service sounds like it has
>>> the best chance of working.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/17/2016 10:51 PM, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
>>>
 Bitbucket also has static web site support. I set one up for the Pygame
 docs awhile ago, but have not maintained it:

 http://pygame.bitbucket.org/docs/pygame/

 The repository is here:

 https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame.bitbucket.org

 Lenard Lindstrom

 On 16-12-17 09:16 PM, Daniel Foerster wrote:

> You know, I suppose we could just use GitHub pages.
>
> On Dec 17, 2016 17:32, "Charles Cossé" > wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Daniel Foerster
> > wrote:
>
> Using S3/CloudFront is a lot cheaper than the EC2 setup you're
> imagining (and which a Django stack would require).
>
>
>
> I never said to use Amazon at all.  Just use the current server,
> whatever it is (unless it's Amazon).
>
> On 12/17/2016 05:11 PM, Charles Cossé wrote:
>
>> Yikes!  who's gonna pay the Amazon bill?
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Paul Vincent Craven
>> > wrote:
>>
>> If most of the site is static, then I think Django would
>> be overkill. The static portion of the site can easily be
>> deployed via Amazon S3/CloudFront and then we'd not have
>> to maintain a server.
>>
>> Paul Vincent Craven
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Charles Cossé
>> 

Re: [pygame] New pygame.org website

[Thomas Kluyver]

Thanks everyone for your input. In the interests of making progress, I'd
like to propose:

- The informational site will be hosted on Github pages; I've used this for
a number of websites before, it's reliable, we can point an external domain
to it, and I imagine that most of the likely contributors have Github
accounts already.
- The pages will be generated by a Python static site generator. There
doesn't seem to be a strong feeling between Sphinx/Nikola/Pelican, so it
will likely depend on who is most excited to start building it.
- The game feed will also be generated from content in Github, so *at first*
developers will need to submit a PR to add a game. Once that's working, we
can build a simpler submission interface on Heroku/Appengine/similar which
can push content to Github. Ideally the data will be in a format which
would could move elsewhere later if necessary.

I like the concept of drawing the game feed from an external source, but I
don't think any of the sources proposed match what we want closely enough.

Does anybody object to any of those proposals?

Thanks,
Thomas

On 18 December 2016 at 20:18, Miriam English  wrote:

> http://ibiblio.org is an enormous, free repository that also lets you
> have static webpages. Many of the Linux distros are hosted from there as
> well as much else too. I don't know how you'd set up a comments system
> there. It may be possible.
>
> http://archive.org is another gigantic free repository. They already have
> a comments system built into their pages. I don't know how it works. It
> might be worth checking out.
>
> Both these organisations are free and are aimed at helping make content
> available to the community which might otherwise be lost. You have complete
> control over the look of webpages at ibiblio.org because you simply
> upload static pages.
>
> I don't know how much control over the look archive.org provides because
> everything is dynamically served from xml data, I think. It might be
> possible to add static content, I don't know.
>
> But both are free, permanently available, and have excellent security.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Miriam
>
>
>
> Peter Shinners wrote:
>
>> Gitlab also has great static site support for free, and you can use
>> custom domains. They also make it easy to run most static generation tools
>> as a CI job. Although part of me thinks just pushing the static content is
>> easiest. It sounds to me like there's a list of acceptable hosting choices
>> that won't cost anything.
>>
>> Keeping the games list as a feed from other service sounds like it has
>> the best chance of working.
>>
>>
>> On 12/17/2016 10:51 PM, Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
>>
>>> Bitbucket also has static web site support. I set one up for the Pygame
>>> docs awhile ago, but have not maintained it:
>>>
>>> http://pygame.bitbucket.org/docs/pygame/
>>>
>>> The repository is here:
>>>
>>> https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame.bitbucket.org
>>>
>>> Lenard Lindstrom
>>>
>>> On 16-12-17 09:16 PM, Daniel Foerster wrote:
>>>
 You know, I suppose we could just use GitHub pages.

 On Dec 17, 2016 17:32, "Charles Cossé" >> cco...@gmail.com>> wrote:



 On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Daniel Foerster
 > wrote:

 Using S3/CloudFront is a lot cheaper than the EC2 setup you're
 imagining (and which a Django stack would require).



 I never said to use Amazon at all.  Just use the current server,
 whatever it is (unless it's Amazon).

 On 12/17/2016 05:11 PM, Charles Cossé wrote:

> Yikes!  who's gonna pay the Amazon bill?
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Paul Vincent Craven
> > wrote:
>
> If most of the site is static, then I think Django would
> be overkill. The static portion of the site can easily be
> deployed via Amazon S3/CloudFront and then we'd not have
> to maintain a server.
>
> Paul Vincent Craven
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Charles Cossé
> > wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Thomas Kluyver
> > wrote:
>
>
> So far, I think the proposals for the static
> information part of the site are Nikola (a static
> site generator oriented around blogs) and Sphinx
> (oriented around docs). Both are written in
> Python. Does anyone want to make the case for any
> other system?
>
>
> Can Django factor-in there? I guess it would reside
> underneathe