[python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
Hello all, Mariatta Wijaya has been working hard to become a Python core developer. At this point she has worked with several of us and I think she has had two dozen or more accepted patches. She is still green but is persistent, conscientious, and learning fast. She is more willing than most of us to work on the little tasks that so often go unattended. Do you all think it is time that we accepted our first female core developer? I would like to see that happen before she speaks at Pycon this year and possibly right away if you all are in agreement. I volunteer to continue to provide mentorship and assistance to her as needed after she is granted commit rights. Raymond Hettinger ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
Hi, I vote +1 for Mariatta Wijaya. 2017-01-26 9:04 GMT+01:00 Raymond Hettinger : > Mariatta Wijaya has been working hard to become a Python core developer. At > this point she has worked with several of us and I think she has had two > dozen or more accepted patches. Oh, I didn't notice her name. I looked at commited changes. Most of them are related to documentation, and a patch to update OpenSSL in the macOS installer. Sadly, too few developers care of the documentation (I plead guilty!), so yeah, it would be nice to get some help on this area. Around 15% of open issues (894/5736) are in the Documentation component. Wait, I don't want to restrict Mariatta to documentation! In my experience, developers are able to restrict themself to areas where they feel confident. I guess that slowly she will contribute to the other parts of Python. I recall that my first commited patch was in the documentation, probably as most of us :-) > I volunteer to continue to provide mentorship and assistance to her as needed > after she is granted commit rights. Great! I was going to ask you if you would mentor her, so it's perfect. Victor ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
2017-01-26 10:04 GMT+02:00 Raymond Hettinger : > Mariatta Wijaya has been working hard to become a Python core developer. At > this point she has worked with several of us and I think she has had two > dozen or more accepted patches. > > She is still green but is persistent, conscientious, and learning fast. She > is more willing than most of us to work on the little tasks that so often go > unattended. > > Do you all think it is time that we accepted our first female core developer? > I would like to see that happen before she speaks at Pycon this year and > possibly right away if you all are in agreement. > > I volunteer to continue to provide mentorship and assistance to her as needed > after she is granted commit rights. On what areas she is focused? I never seen her patches. ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
+1 https://github.com/python/cpython/search?p=1&q=Mariatta&type=Commits&utf8=%E2%9C%93 Her English is definitely better than me :) And I feel it's easy to read for non native speaker. ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: > Hello all, > > Mariatta Wijaya has been working hard to become a Python core developer. At > this point she has worked with several of us and I think she has had two > dozen or more accepted patches. > > She is still green but is persistent, conscientious, and learning fast. She > is more willing than most of us to work on the little tasks that so often go > unattended. > > Do you all think it is time that we accepted our first female core developer? > I would like to see that happen before she speaks at Pycon this year and > possibly right away if you all are in agreement. > > I volunteer to continue to provide mentorship and assistance to her as needed > after she is granted commit rights. I'd like to see some triaging, code review and more work on complicated patches first. I reviewed some of Mariatta's patches and they needed at least two review rounds to meet our documentation guidelines. See http://bugs.python.org/issue26149 for a recent example. --Berker ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Pace of change for Python 3.x [was: My cavalier and aggressive manner, API] change and bugs introduced for basically zero benefit
On 25 January 2017 at 10:19, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Perhaps making the last minor version to a major release version > as we did with 2.7 is a good approach, i.e. we'd switch the > major number when cutting an LTS release and follow similar > guidelines as we have for 2.7 for this 3.x LTS release. It also takes about that long for *idiomatic* expectations to change - Python 2.7 code written by someone that learned Python 3 first is likely to look quite different from code written by someone that started with 1.5.2 or one of the earlier 2.x releases. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Pace of change for Python 3.x
On 25 January 2017 at 15:29, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > I also believe that the PSF should start stepping up and > invest some money into helping with Python support. A lot > of money is being spent on community work, but hardly any > on development work at the moment. Software maintenance is a commercial support activity that is normally done for profit, so the PSF needs to be careful in how it approaches it to avoid getting in trouble with the IRS (public interest charities like the PSF operate under different taxation rules from trade associations like the Linux and OpenStack Foundations, and hence have a different set of constraints on their activities). > By doing so, the PSF could also attract more sponsors, since > sponsoring would then have a real tangible benefit to the > sponsors. This is the aspect the PSF needs to be careful about, as it's treading very close to the line of activities that are better suited to a trade association or for-profit corporation. Something along the lines of the Twisted or Django fellowship would likely be feasible - that would involve a grant request from the core development community to fund someone to focus full-time on issue triage and patch review for a designated period of time. We'd need volunteers to help out with the review and selection process for applicants for the role, as well as a volunteer to actually write a grant proposal (including coming up with measurable objectives to help the PSF judge whether or not the grant was a success). Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Pace of change for Python 3.x
On 25 January 2017 at 19:28, Neil Schemenauer wrote: > On 2017-01-25, A.M. Kuchling wrote: >> I think this is the next frontier for Python maintenance; we need >> full-time core maintainers, no third parties are funding any such >> developers, and the PSF doesn't seem interested in pursuing that. > > IMHO, the PSF should be doing it. I don't know exactly how the > Linux Foundation works but my superficial understanding is that the > LF gets funding mostly from big companies and then directly pays > some Linux developers. Most notable, Linus is paid by the LF. Right now, the PSF's more concerned by the state of PyPI and the packaging ecosystem than they are CPython - keep in mind that one of the main concerns being raised about CPython development is that the pace of change is already *too high* for the rest of the ecosystem to keep up with (just based on those of us that have obtained individual agreements with our employers to spend part of our time on upstream contributions), whereas improvements in the packaging tools space (which provide a more immediate benefit to many more community members) are severely constrained by volunteer availability. On that front, a funding proposal is being submitted to the Mozilla Grants program to finalize the sunsetting of the legacy web service at pypi.python.org, and migrating all operations over to pypi.org (those are currently running as parallel front ends to the same backing data store, but the new one is missing maintainer facing features that mean it isn't yet possible to shut down the old one). Eric also correctly channeled me in that I think the right way for people to advocate for LTS CPython releases is: 1. Pick a commercial Python redistributor 2. Start paying them for support 3. Advocate for *them* (through whatever channels they provide) to pursue a fully funded recurring LTS model in CPython upstream That entirely avoids the "Is this an appropriate activity for a public interest charity to be funding?" question, and also gives commercial redistributors a clear practical benefit that they can pitch to their subscribers (i.e. getting fixes backported from the main line of development to LTS versions). Cheers, Nick. P.S. Since it's relevant to the conversation at hand, and we all collectively benefit from the upstream community maintaining strong ties with our commercial redistributors, I'll also point out that ActiveState, one of CPython's longest term commercial redistributors and one of the founding sponsors of the PSF, is currently hiring for a couple of key roles in their open source languages support and development team: http://www.activestate.com/company#careers -- Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
On 26 January 2017 at 10:17, Berker Peksağ wrote: > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Raymond Hettinger > wrote: >> I volunteer to continue to provide mentorship and assistance to her as >> needed after she is granted commit rights. > > I'd like to see some triaging, code review and more work on > complicated patches first. While I don't have hard data to back it up, my suspicion would be that we have more simple patches pending than we do complicated ones. > I reviewed some of Mariatta's patches and > they needed at least two review rounds to meet our documentation > guidelines. See http://bugs.python.org/issue26149 for a recent > example. With Raymond volunteering as mentor, I think an approach where changes are still reviewed, but it's Mariatta that does the final commit would work. That would be pretty similar to the way things worked when I recommended Yury for commit privileges - at the start, the only thing that changed was that the final step in the review process changed from "wait until I find time to commit the change" to "looks good to me, go ahead and make the change". Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
On Jan 26, 2017, at 02:49 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >With Raymond volunteering as mentor, I think an approach where changes >are still reviewed, but it's Mariatta that does the final commit would >work. +1 -Barry ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
2017-01-26 14:49 GMT+01:00 Nick Coghlan : > With Raymond volunteering as mentor, I think an approach where changes > are still reviewed, but it's Mariatta that does the final commit would > work. > > That would be pretty similar to the way things worked when I > recommended Yury for commit privileges - at the start, the only thing > that changed was that the final step in the review process changed > from "wait until I find time to commit the change" to "looks good to > me, go ahead and make the change". Right. When I proposed Xiang Xhang, there was no 100% agreement, but I mentored him and put strong rules for the first weeks. He had to wait for at least one LGTM from another core dev and asks me for a final approval. IMHO it worked well, and Xiang is now autonomous. I now trust him to make the good choices ;-) Victor ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
On 26.01.2017 16:52, Victor Stinner wrote: > 2017-01-26 14:49 GMT+01:00 Nick Coghlan : >> With Raymond volunteering as mentor, I think an approach where changes >> are still reviewed, but it's Mariatta that does the final commit would >> work. >> >> That would be pretty similar to the way things worked when I >> recommended Yury for commit privileges - at the start, the only thing >> that changed was that the final step in the review process changed >> from "wait until I find time to commit the change" to "looks good to >> me, go ahead and make the change". > > Right. When I proposed Xiang Xhang, there was no 100% agreement, but I > mentored him and put strong rules for the first weeks. He had to wait > for at least one LGTM from another core dev and asks me for a final > approval. IMHO it worked well, and Xiang is now autonomous. I now > trust him to make the good choices ;-) Good approach. IMO, enabling people to take on responsibility is the best way to create well working teams. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Jan 26 2017) >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> Python Database Interfaces ... http://products.egenix.com/ >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ... http://zope.egenix.com/ ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs ::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ http://www.malemburg.com/ ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Pace of change for Python 3.x
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 01:58:42PM +0100, Nick Coghlan wrote: > Software maintenance is a commercial support activity that is normally > done for profit, so the PSF needs to be careful in how it approaches > it to avoid getting in trouble with the IRS (public interest charities > like the PSF operate under different taxation rules from trade > associations like the Linux and OpenStack Foundations, and hence have > a different set of constraints on their activities). This only seems true if "software maintenance" in the above means something like "writing contracts and taking money to apply bugfixes within certain guaranteed SLAs". If "software maintenance" = "paying someone a salary to apply bugfixes to an old branch", that activity seems to clearly fall into a 501c3's purview under the categorizations of "advancement of education or science" or "erecting or maintaining public buildings, monuments, or works". [*] I mean, if funding software maintenance is illegal for a 501c3, then the FSF, Software Conservancy, Software in the Public Interest, Django Foundation, NumFOCUS, etc. are probably all illegal. (At some point this thread probably needs to move to psf-discuss-public or whatever it is.) --amk [*] https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exempt-purposes-internal-revenue-code-section-501c3 ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
On 2017-01-26 14:49, Nick Coghlan wrote: > With Raymond volunteering as mentor, I think an approach where changes > are still reviewed, but it's Mariatta that does the final commit would > work. +1 I followed some of Mariatta's work. She does a good job. I trust both her and Raymond's judgement to do the right thing (tm). ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
I cast a + 1 vote too. Positives I imagine are: * Her motivation to contribute. * She addresses feedback provided on patches and follows up. * Raymond's mentorship. It will be better, if in near future * She identifies a focus area and becomes an expert in that. Thanks, Senthil On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 12:04 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: > Hello all, > > Mariatta Wijaya has been working hard to become a Python core developer. At > this point she has worked with several of us and I think she has had two > dozen or more accepted patches. > > She is still green but is persistent, conscientious, and learning fast. She > is more willing than most of us to work on the little tasks that so often go > unattended. > > Do you all think it is time that we accepted our first female core developer? > I would like to see that happen before she speaks at Pycon this year and > possibly right away if you all are in agreement. > > I volunteer to continue to provide mentorship and assistance to her as needed > after she is granted commit rights. > > > Raymond Hettinger > > > ___ > python-committers mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > That would be pretty similar to the way things worked when I > recommended Yury for commit privileges - at the start, the only thing > that changed was that the final step in the review process changed > from "wait until I find time to commit the change" to "looks good to > me, go ahead and make the change". Well, if I remember correctly Yury was already familiar with the internals of inspect module and has produced several high quality patches :) --Berker ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 at 00:05 Raymond Hettinger wrote: > Hello all, > > Mariatta Wijaya has been working hard to become a Python core developer. > At this point she has worked with several of us and I think she has had two > dozen or more accepted patches. > > She is still green but is persistent, conscientious, and learning fast. > She is more willing than most of us to work on the little tasks that so > often go unattended. > > Do you all think it is time that we accepted our first female core > developer? I would like to see that happen before she speaks at Pycon this > year and possibly right away if you all are in agreement. > > I volunteer to continue to provide mentorship and assistance to her as > needed after she is granted commit rights. > +1 from me. She's definitely keen and I don't think there's a worry of her overstepping her knowledge or abilities without asking for help. I've been reviewing her work on the peps repo to port all of the old plaintext PEPs to reST and she's been quick to respond, friendly, and the usual superlatives we want in a core dev. :) ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Pace of change for Python 3.x
On 26.01.2017 17:34, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 01:58:42PM +0100, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> Software maintenance is a commercial support activity that is normally >> done for profit, so the PSF needs to be careful in how it approaches >> it to avoid getting in trouble with the IRS (public interest charities >> like the PSF operate under different taxation rules from trade >> associations like the Linux and OpenStack Foundations, and hence have >> a different set of constraints on their activities). > > This only seems true if "software maintenance" in the above means > something like "writing contracts and taking money to apply bugfixes > within certain guaranteed SLAs". > > If "software maintenance" = "paying someone a salary to apply bugfixes > to an old branch", that activity seems to clearly fall into a 501c3's > purview under the categorizations of "advancement of education or > science" or "erecting or maintaining public buildings, monuments, or > works". [*] > > I mean, if funding software maintenance is illegal for a 501c3, then > the FSF, Software Conservancy, Software in the Public Interest, Django > Foundation, NumFOCUS, etc. are probably all illegal. I agree with Andrew: while software maintenance is a great business model for some companies, it's certainly not an activity that may only exclusively done by for-profit entities (even though some of those companies might find that useful ;-)). As long as we're not using software maintenance for some hidden political lobbying agenda, we're fine as PSF. > (At some point this thread probably needs to move to > psf-discuss-public or whatever it is.) Agreed as well, but for the PSF to get active in this area, we'd have to draft up a proposal. Note that the PSF does have a fair amount of money in the bank, which would certainly be enough to contract developers for doing maintenance or development work, either for dedicated work (as was done in the past a couple of times), or continuously, provided the rates are reasonable. The main problem the PSF has is not having enough human resources to provide project management or even oversight, so a lot of such funding activities depend on whether there are trusted people available who could take up these tasks on behalf of the PSF. > [*] > https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exempt-purposes-internal-revenue-code-section-501c3 -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Jan 26 2017) >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> Python Database Interfaces ... http://products.egenix.com/ >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ... http://zope.egenix.com/ ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs ::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ http://www.malemburg.com/ ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
> On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 at 00:05 Raymond Hettinger > wrote: > Hello all, > > Mariatta Wijaya has been working hard to become a Python core developer. At > this point she has worked with several of us and I think she has had two > dozen or more accepted patches. > > She is still green but is persistent, conscientious, and learning fast. She > is more willing than most of us to work on the little tasks that so often go > unattended. > > Do you all think it is time that we accepted our first female core developer? > I would like to see that happen before she speaks at Pycon this year and > possibly right away if you all are in agreement. > > I volunteer to continue to provide mentorship and assistance to her as needed > after she is granted commit rights. > > +1 from me. She's definitely keen and I don't think there's a worry of her > overstepping her knowledge or abilities without asking for help. I've been > reviewing her work on the peps repo to port all of the old plaintext PEPs to > reST and she's been quick to respond, friendly, and the usual superlatives we > want in a core dev. :) Thanks Brett. It looks like +1 all around. I'll let her know of the decision (with the caveat for continued mentorship and supervised checkins). This is a watershed moment for all of us. Everyone should be happy today. Raymond ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Proposed new core developer -- Mariatta Wijaya
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: > Thanks Brett. It looks like +1 all around. Yes. It seems Berker preferred to wait a bit. I hope, he is okay with the decision as he has reviewed + worked with Mariatta quite a bit. -- Senthil ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
