[python-committers] Python workflow quirks with mercurial and hg-git extension

[Jesus Cea]

I plan to come back to python development (about time!) but I truly
hates git. I am experimenting with mercurial + hg-git extension and it
is quite usable (after the initial painfully slow clone time), but I am
having small quirks that I would like to iron out with a fellow more
experienced or also interested in this approach.

Anybody out there?.

If this is considered off-topic, please let me know.

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Re: [python-committers] Requirements to get the "bug triage" permission?

[Jesus Cea]

On 06/12/17 23:17, Victor Stinner wrote:
> My problem is that we don't have a long list of "awards" in Python:
> the triage bit and the commit bit...
> 
> I had some ideas to create badges, but before I come with something
> concrete, I'm trying to build something with what we already have ;-)

I have been a few weeks thinking about OpenBadges and CPython
development. Not for gamification but for recognition.

In the mood to consider this?

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[python-committers] broken arm

[Jesus Cea]

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Hi, guys.

I just have broken my left arm last saturday (sliding swimming pools are
dangerous :)). I will be barely online for the next 6 weeks. I will try
to keep email backlog under control, but single-hand typing is a nightmare.

I will be "slow" but available, anyway.

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Re: [python-committers] broken arm

[Jesus Cea]

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Christian Heimes wrote:
> Take the opportunity and read some good books! :] And get well soon.

Just reading the last book from Ken Follet :-P. 1200 pages...

> PS: Who was talking about a single point of failure a few days ago? ...

I'm still here :-).

PS: If I was working in the bsddb code for Python 3.0 I would have spend
Saturday working on this, instead of having fun in a birthday party with
an aching end :-). Shit happens :)

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Re: [python-committers] Cutting Python 2.6

[Jesus Cea]

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Barry Warsaw wrote:
> IIUC, the critical bottleneck is tagging the tree, so the RM needs to
> make it far enough through the PEP to get to that point.  Of course that
> does mean freezing the tree, and I don't think it's too difficult to do
> that.

I always found strange the need to freeze the tree. When a svn tag is
created, the build process should use that tag to extract the files and
build the release, while the repository is being updated normally.

In fact in a *.0 release, the tag should be a branch actually.

Sure I'm missing something...

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Re: [python-committers] Cutting Python 2.6

[Jesus Cea]

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Anthony Baxter wrote:
> If there's a screwup, and you need to recut the branch, you want to be
> sure someone else hasn't been helpful and added something else to the
> repo.

But you can put the tag/create the branch in any revision you want...

In fact, my approach would be to create a 2.6 branch after 2.6b3, and
leave the trunk for 2.7 work.

No, I am not voluntering as release manager O:-). If freezing the tree
24 hours is needed, that's fine.

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Re: [python-committers] Luke Kenneth

[Jesus Cea]

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Guido van Rossum wrote:
> I certainly don't expect that he'll stop right away, but the best
> response in this case is none. Let's just delete his mail and
> eventually he'll go away.

In fact, I had to review my old email to check who was that "Luke
Kenneth" :-).

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Re: [python-committers] Survey about DVCSs compared to svn

[Jesus Cea]

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Nick Coghlan wrote:
> We have a few of those (svn:externals) as well... Brett, another
> question for your DVCS champions!

Sun uses a Mercurial extension, Forest, to manage JDK.

Mercurial forest:
http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/ForestExtension

And a proposal for the core Mercurial:
http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/NestedRepositories

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[python-committers] help with svnmerge

[Jesus Cea]

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I committed r70197 to trunk a few days ago. Today I copied "svnmerge.py"
in my 2.6 branch, and did an "init" and a "merge"... like it is said in
the developer FAQ. I got a lot of conflicts and "old patches" merged.
Overhelming.

So...

Can anybody please merge r70197 to 2.6 branch?

Can somebody explain how to do a correct svnmerge and, possibly, update
http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-merge-between-branches ?

Sorry for this inconvenience. I promise to learn the lessons you teach me.

PS: I know how to merge using pure SVN and Mercurial... O:-)

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[python-committers] What is the state of mercurial migration?

[Jesus Cea]

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Hi, everybody. I have read PEP 385, but there is no time schedule there,
and I was wondering how is the migration done.

Any idea of when can we use Mercurial to do our contributions?.

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[python-committers] Why r69846 is not merged to "release26-maint"?

[Jesus Cea]

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I have found a few flaws in 2.6 documentation. I was going to correct
them when I found they are already solved in trunk in r69846, done by
mark.dickinson in february.

Is there any reason for that commit not to be merged to 2.6 branch?. Am
I missing anything?.

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Re: [python-committers] Why r69846 is not merged to "release26-maint"?

[Jesus Cea]

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Anthony Baxter wrote:
> Speaking as a past release manager, the reason that things like that
> didn't get merged is because... drumroll... no-one merged them.

Ughhh. This is actually a good reason to migrate to mercurial, were
merges are painless :-).

> It's another tree to checkout and patch. Personally, I was always of the
> belief that if someone wanted to fix docs (or comments, or other things
> like that) in a maintenance branch, more power to them.

I already have the checkouts for the maintained branches. I will try to
merge that patch, although it is old and will probably generate a ton of
conflicts. Let's see...

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Re: [python-committers] Why r69846 is not merged to "release26-maint"?

[Jesus Cea]

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Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2009/7/2 Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven :
>> -On [20090702 17:15], Jesus Cea (j...@jcea.es) wrote:
>>> Ughhh. This is actually a good reason to migrate to mercurial, were
>>> merges are painless :-).
>> For all I know Mercurial doesn't make the issue of resolving content merges
>> easier, so that would make your comment moot.
> 
> They're about 2^987987979 times faster, though than with svnmerge.py.

And you don't forget any merge, because you commit to the maintenance
and then merge to the trunk.

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Re: [python-committers] Why r69846 is not merged to "release26-maint"?

[Jesus Cea]

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Anthony Baxter wrote:
> The particulars of the revision control system don't matter as much as
> the discipline of teaching people to commit fixes. Right now, we have
> 2.6.x, 3.0.x and 3.1.x. 

And trunk and py3k.

Having the right technology helps. The merge features of SVN 1.5 are
limited but blessing.

But I don't want to start a flamewar. The issue is already settled.

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Re: [python-committers] Why r69846 is not merged to "release26-maint"?

[Jesus Cea]

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Brett Cannon wrote:
> If I remember correctly I believe we decided at the language summit that
> 3.0 is just dead now that 3.1 is out and we shouldn't even bother with
> another point release since 3.1 followed 3.0 so closely and didn't
> introduce any new syntax or tweak semantics.

If that is true (I agree with that policy, btw), please confirm
"officially". Can we forget about 3.0 branch?. Can I delete that
checkout from my system?.

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Re: [python-committers] Why r69846 is not merged to "release26-maint"?

[Jesus Cea]

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Please, somebody fix the reply-to :)

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 02:34:38PM -0400, R. David Murray wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 at 02:13, Anthony Baxter wrote:
>> Using svnmerge to commit to three branches in addition to trunk
>> is...painful.  Because of the (lack of) speed.
> 
> Should we push the Mercurial transition higher on the priority list,
> then?

Please, do. I can't wait, and my activity is pretty low... (to change soon)

I already asked for the mercurial transition status a few days ago, with
*no* (zero) answers. How is it going?. Can I help in any way?.

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[python-committers] Berkeley DB (Was: Re: r73807 - python/branches/py3k/setup.py)

[Jesus Cea]

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Georg Brandl wrote:
> I think this should be reverted -- the support code is not for the
> bsddb module, but for building the dbm module with bsddb.

I pretend to ask for re-inclusion of BerkeleyDB in Python 3.x branch in
the future (maybe around christmas), now that it is under control, very
solid, and a needed storage option in the standard lib.

It has a pretty number of downloads in PYPI, so people is interested in
it, and having a "good" storage option in the standard lib is mandatory
(ACID, distributed transactions, replication...).

But I don't want to open-fire just now... O:-).

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Re: [python-committers] Berkeley DB (Was: Re: r73807 - python/branches/py3k/setup.py)

[Jesus Cea]

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R. David Murray wrote:
> It seems to me (though I admit I haven't been watching closely recently)
> that the buildbots still report bsddb errors on trunk on a fairly regular
> basis. If I'm not imagining things is there any chance you could take
> a look at that?

I am not aware of that. I only check buildbots after doing commits. If
somebody has a buildbot reference, please share. I promise to work to
solve it.

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Re: [python-committers] Data corruption issue (C IO library)

[Jesus Cea]

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Georg Brandl wrote:
>> A data corruption issue has been discovered in the C IO lib in Python
>> 3.1 (http://bugs.python.org/issue6629). I've applied a fix, and I wonder
>> whether we should make a release quickly to minimize the probability of
>> users hitting the problem?
>> (Georg tells me Benjamin is on holiday, however)
> 
> FWIW, I also think we should make a new micro release right now.  We can't
> be seen to take data corruption issues with the most basic file operations
> lightly, especially in Python 3; otherwise, people will think we still don't
> consider it ready for use.

+1. Messing with people files is probably the worst you can do.

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Re: [python-committers] branches and merging

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/01/2010 11:24 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Maybe we should consider switching to hg now rather than waiting?

I can't wait for HG. I have read the main cutprit for the delay is the
line-ending issue with MS Windows developers. Is there anything else
holding us back?.

(And yes, maybe migrating would do people angry enough for solving the
last details :-).

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Re: [python-committers] branches and merging

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/03/2010 08:13 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> I wouldn't say there are tons of things, but yes, even if we decided
> to punt on the whole EOL thing for now, that probably wouldn't bring
> the switch much closer unless there's also a bunch of people jumping
> in helping out with other things (some of which are going to be hard
> -- for example, hacking on hgsubversion if you have no prior
> experience with that tool). I'm happy to do these things and I think
> the early May deadline is somewhat realistic, assuming that I don't
> have to spend much of my time on the EOL issues.

Do you have a list of -detailed- pending issues?. Detailed enough to
decide if we can help or not...

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Re: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/04/2010 03:28 AM, Alexandre Vassalotti wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Vinay Sajip  wrote:
>> I've installed Keychain and invoked it in my .bashrc, and whenever I open a
>> terminal session, it tells me that it found an existing ssh-agent and the
>> SSH_AUTH_SOCK and SSH_AGENT_PID seem to be correct.
> 
> Are you using Ubuntu? If so, Seahorse (the default key manager in
> Ubuntu) should prompt you automatically for your passphrase and cache
> it.  Keychain might be interfering with it, so try to uninstall it
> first. Then verify in Applications ? Accessories ? Passwords and
> Encryption Keys that Seahorse sees your SSH key.

I would use "ssh-agent" directly, via "ssh-add". It is what I do.

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Re: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/04/2010 10:06 AM, Vinay Sajip wrote:

> Thanks for the response. I checked the permissions and verified them to be 600
> on ~/.ssh/id_rsa. Your suggestion to ssh -v is a good one, and it lets me in
> despite there being debug messages about the key being invalid - so I don't 
> see
> how it could be!

Do you have access to any other machine vía SSH?. I would try to
generate a new SSH key in Ubuntu. If that solves the issue connecting to
ther machines, I would ask python commint gatekeeper to change your SSH
commit key. Do the test against a machine you can update new SSH keys to.

PS: Just for trying, check if your SSH key has \013 inside (Carriage
Return). If it does, *DO A COPY* and delete those special chars, just
for testing.

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Re: [python-committers] branches and merging

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/02/2010 02:21 PM, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 04:36:42AM +0100, Jesus Cea wrote:
>> I can't wait for HG. I have read the main cutprit for the delay is the
>> line-ending issue with MS Windows developers. Is there anything else
>> holding us back?.
> 
> Note that, if you'd just like to use Mercurial for your own
> convenience while developing, the mirrored repositories at
> http://hg.python.org/ are up-to-date; you just can't push changes
> back.  I have a regex patch that was developed using an hg checkout of
> the Python source tree, with my changes layered atop it using the mq
> extension.

This is a really excellent suggestion, and the perfect excuse to get
familiar with MQ, that I haven't tried yet.

I have a strange error:

"""
[j...@babylon5 home]$ hg clone http://hg.python.org/cpython/
destination directory: cpython
requesting all changes
abort: HTTP Error 414: Request-URI Too Large
"""

Using an sniffer, I see the request is actually huge. I am using
Mercurial 1.5.

I can pull individual branches, with "-b" flag
(http://hg.python.org/cpython/branches), but I have the same issue doing
a "pull" later.

It is not possible to download the full repository?. I could update the
clone branch by branch, but must be a better way...

Suggestions?.

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Re: [python-committers] branches and merging

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/10/2010 08:29 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> So, in the meantime, if you have ssh access, make your clone via ssh.

Could you possibly the exact command to use to clone cpython HG
repository?. I can't find it via Google.

> Otherwise, clone a single branch, like this:
> http://hg.python.org/cpython#py3k, and that should prevent you from
> getting the error even on subsequent pulls.

I tried this, but I get the error again, unless I do a "pull" for that
branch only. A "pull" with no options gives the error.

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Re: [python-committers] branches and merging

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/10/2010 04:30 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:
> On 03/10/2010 08:29 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
>> So, in the meantime, if you have ssh access, make your clone via ssh.
> 
> Could you possibly the exact command to use to clone cpython HG
> repository?. I can't find it via Google.

I still don't know how I can clone the cpython repository. Regular clone
doesn't work with current repository state. Dirkjan commented about
cloning via SSH, and I have a SSH commit key, but I don't know what
command to use...

Help!.

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Re: [python-committers] branches and merging

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/13/2010 04:01 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:11:51 +0100,
> Jesus Cea  a écrit :
>>
>> I still don't know how I can clone the cpython repository. Regular
>> clone doesn't work with current repository state.
> 
> If you don't need to push back to the Mercurial repositories, you can
> use the "other" mirrors at http://code.python.org/hg
> 
> (e.g.: `hg clone http://code.python.org/hg/trunk/`)

Thanks, Antoine. Those "mirrors" are not equivalent because they keep
different branches in different repositories (compared with the single
repository with named branches inside, in the "official" HG), but they
are good enough. Thanks. In fact I am not sure this approach is even
better, if the respositories share a common parent, so you can move
patches around.

Now I have to master the MQ extension :).

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Re: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r78823 - python/tags/r265rc2

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/10/2010 05:42 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> All: The release26-maint branch is now semi-thawed.  I'm going to be even more
> strict about commits to the branch now because I really don't want to release
> an rc3 unless absolutely necessary.  2.6.5 final is scheduled for 2010-03-19.

I was wondering about http://bugs.python.org/issue3928 . It is a trivial
fix a couple of lines long only.

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[python-committers] Is 3.1 open? (was: Re: Fw: [Python-checkins] r78823 - python/tags/r265rc2)

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/13/2010 11:25 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 08:42 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:
> 
>> I was wondering about http://bugs.python.org/issue3928 . It is a trivial
>> fix a couple of lines long only.
> 
> These can be addressed for 2.6.6.

Your word is my command, Barry.

What about 3.1.3, Benjamin?. I guess it is too late for 3.1.2, since the
rc is out. I saw your message asking for stopping commits the 6th march,
but I haven't seen another message opening the gates again...

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Re: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/14/2010 12:40 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2010/3/13 "Martin v. Löwis" :
>>>>> What about 3.1.3, Benjamin?. I guess it is too late for 3.1.2,
>>>>> since the rc is out. I saw your message asking for stopping commits
>>>>> the 6th march, but I haven't seen another message opening the gates
>>>>> again...
>>>> As Martin pointed out, I don't think this patch is acceptable for a
>>>> bug fix release.
>>>
>>> I would say the patch is acceptable for a bugfix release, just not one
>>> in release candidate status.
>>
>> That's what I meant as well.
> 
> Very well then, let's wait for 3.1.3.

That was what I was asking.

I will commit the patch to trunk and py3k, and to 2.6 and 3.1 branch
after 2.6.5 and 3.1.2 are out.

Should I commit now to trunk/py3k and later to 2.6/3.1, or wait to do
the four commits at the same time?. Don't want to miss the 2.7beta.

Mercurial, where are you?. This would be a non issue :)

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Re: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/14/2010 03:35 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>> Mercurial, where are you?. This would be a non issue :)
> 
> How so?

The release manager could clone the repository to getting it ready for
release, while the main repository accepts new changesets. The point
would be not stopping commits, ever.

When done, the release manager could tag the release in his/her clone
and push the changes to the main branch, like any other commit.

If the release manager needs some patches for the main repository,
he/she can cherrypick them manually or using a tool like
http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/TransplantExtension .

The devil is in the details, like how the release manager repository
clone accesses buildbots, for instance.

This is possible workflow. I don't know what is the actual plan, yet.

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Re: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/23/2010 04:13 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I'm not sure if there should be any change in the wording of the FAQ
> entry for this - maybe expanding on the last sentence a bit?
> 
> Current: "This is a one-time operation."
> Possible change: "This is a one-time operation (i.e. only when the
> branch is originally created, not when each developer creates a local
> checkout for the branch)."

I "perpetrated" the same error a couple of years ago. Fortunatelly I saw
the issue before committing. So, yes, some clarification is needed.

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[python-committers] pybsddb 5.0.0 integration and 2.7beta1 schedule

[Jesus Cea]

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Oracle just released Berkeley DB 5.0.21, with features like SQLite façade.

I am now testing pybsddb 5.0.0, that supports BDB 5.0.x.

My original plan was to delay integration of pybsddb 5.x.x for 2.7.1
release, but Larry Hastings has a (sensible) request to migrate pybsddb
from CObject to Capsule for 2.7.0. Current pybsddb 5.0.0 already
contains that change.

I am reluctant to integrate the code change before beta1, because
although it should be transparent I don't want to risk a red buildbot,
even for 20 minutes, so close to beta1. Integrating it between beta1 and
beta2 would be riskless, but it would break API compatibility (because
the CObject->Capsule) change.

I don't know how many people depend of the pybsddb C api, although I
think that very little.

What should I do?. When is the beta1 window closed?

PS: I would need a couple of hours for integration, but beware timezone!
(Spain :).

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Re: [python-committers] pybsddb 5.0.0 integration and 2.7beta1 schedule

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/06/2010 10:12 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
>> My original plan was to delay integration of pybsddb 5.x.x for 2.7.1
>> release
> 
> Bugfix releases are only for bug fixes, by definition. 2.7.1 shouldn't
> receive such a change.

In the past 2.6 received a small patch to be able to compile against BDB
4.8. There are other precedents.

> Why should it be "transparent"? Are you so confident that it won't bring
> any new problems? Given that we are talking about a new major version
> number, this sounds a bit optimistic.

pybsddb 5.0.0 compiles against BDB 5.0.x, but it doesn' support any new
feature. The diff is pretty small, and the testsuite is very extensive.
I am pretty confident.

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Re: [python-committers] pybsddb 5.0.0 integration and 2.7beta1 schedule

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/07/2010 12:54 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Still, I'm skeptical whether it should be added to 2.7 this late. The
> original release date for rc1 was last Saturday, so any new feature
> proposed now should be considered as being past the deadline.

I agree, and that is the reason I am asking this in the list.

I still think pybsddb 5.0.0 should be in python 2.7.0. My doubt is about
integrating before beta1 or between beta1 and beta2. This is important
because pybsddb 5.0.0 breaks API binary compatibility for those poor
souls that uses the C API exported by it. Probably only relevant to
Oracle Berkeley DB XML team :-), the only people I know that uses it.

If pybsddb 5.0.0 is not integrated, there is still the issue of
CObject->Capsule change.

I just read the message from Benjamin Paterson about the trunk freezing.
That delays the decision until after beta1 :).

Benjamin, as the release manager, what do you think?. The options are:

1. Ships 2.7.0 with current pybsddb code.  The CObject deprecation is
currently silenced explictly.

2. Ships 2.7.0 with current pybssdb code + Capsule support. Current
proposed patch is faulty, but solving it should be trivial. With Beta1
window closed, this will break C API compatibility in beta2... unless
CObject routines can read Capsules, something that the original patch
author says they do. I have not checked it.

3. Ships 2.7.0 with pybsddb 5.0.0. It is a low risk option, I promise.
The only issue is that C API could change between beta1 and beta2. Not
that anybody would use that C API, actually.

I vote for the third option. The capsule patch author Larry Hastings
would like 2. The easy path ("do nothing") is 1.

PS: If we go for 1 or 2, if in 2.7.1 we want to support Berkeley DB
5.0.x (already released a week ago), we must break API anyway, because
some constants have been renamed, and some defaults have been inverted.

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Re: [python-committers] Blocking commits to 2.6

[Jesus Cea]

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On 25/04/10 19:59, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> Does anyone else use svnmerge integration info on the 2.6 branch?  Please
>> speak up, so that I don't mess up your workflow.
> 
> Not me.  I find the whole svnmerge stuff madness anyway. :)

Mercurial can not come soon enough :).

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Re: [python-committers] When do we stop automerging from trunk to py3k?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 27/04/10 15:01, Chris Withers wrote:
> Michael Foord wrote:
>> Allegedly merging between branches will be easier with Mercurial
>> anyway...
> 
> I hope an Hg expert can show how this can be done...
> 
> In particular, we don't want to pull all changes to 2.7 into 3k, and I
> haven't seen any sane way in Hg to say "just pull this changeset, no
> others"...

There are extensions for it.

For instance <http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/TransplantExtension>.

Anyway, a possible simple workflow is to write patches for the older
supported python version and merge them in newer versions, adjusted or,
possibly, "backout"ed.

That is, patch 2.7 and "push" those changes to 3.x, undoing the
unnecesary patches with a simple "backout".

This is far more automatic that cherrypicking patches, with the risk of
forgeting some.

I can't wait for HG native use, and I am curious about the exact
workflow we are going to use.

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Re: [python-committers] When do we stop automerging from trunk to py3k?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 28/04/10 12:17, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le mercredi 28 avril 2010 à 04:37 +0200, Jesus Cea a écrit :
>> That is, patch 2.7 and "push" those changes to 3.x, undoing the
>> unnecesary patches with a simple "backout".
> 
> Good point. I haven't thought of the possibility of using "hg backout".
> However, those bugfixes must also be applied (usually) to 3.1, which
> makes the workflow graph a bit uncertain:
> (3.1 -> 2.7) and (3.1 -> 3.x)?

Yes, I would "push":

2.6 -> 2.7 -> 3.1 -> 3.x

Versions in the right must include patches done for the versions in the
left. Also, versions more in the left change less.

I am not formally proposing this workflow, but it would leverage the
merge excellence of Mercurial.

The bad thing about "backout" is the polution of the repository history.
Another option would be to push the change and do a "null merge", were
we actually "cancel" the change. But that would "lie" in the history and
could require a fake commit in the "tip" to have two heads to merge.

Looking in this way, the "backout" path seems better, because it
documents both "we have considered this patch" as the outcome "but we
don't need it in this repository".

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Re: [python-committers] branches and merging

[Jesus Cea]

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On 10/03/10 03:13, Jesus Cea wrote:
> On 03/02/2010 02:21 PM, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 04:36:42AM +0100, Jesus Cea wrote:
>>> I can't wait for HG. I have read the main cutprit for the delay is the
>>> line-ending issue with MS Windows developers. Is there anything else
>>> holding us back?.
> 
>> Note that, if you'd just like to use Mercurial for your own
>> convenience while developing, the mirrored repositories at
>> http://hg.python.org/ are up-to-date; you just can't push changes
>> back.  I have a regex patch that was developed using an hg checkout of
>> the Python source tree, with my changes layered atop it using the mq
>> extension.
> 
> This is a really excellent suggestion, and the perfect excuse to get
> familiar with MQ, that I haven't tried yet.
> 
> I have a strange error:
> 
> """
> [j...@babylon5 home]$ hg clone http://hg.python.org/cpython/
> destination directory: cpython
> requesting all changes
> abort: HTTP Error 414: Request-URI Too Large
> """

Two months later...

I can confirm I can clone now http://hg.python.org/cpython/ , using the
new Mercurial 1.5.2. If the repository was not overhaulted, this is GOOD.

The repository has 443 heads. Half a gig. U.

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Re: [python-committers] branches and merging

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/05/10 18:59, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
>> Two months later...
>>
>> I can confirm I can clone now http://hg.python.org/cpython/ , using the
>> new Mercurial 1.5.2. If the repository was not overhaulted, this is GOOD.
>>
>> The repository has 443 heads. Half a gig. U.
> 
> For daily work, I suggest you use http://code.python.org/hg instead. It
> is much more lightweight (a separate repo for each branch) and, since it
> isn't meant to test the conversion, the changeset IDs won't change.

I know. It is what I do daily. I can not pass without Mercurial Queues
:). I dream every night with the day I can use Mercurial natively :-pp.

I was just confirming that the "issue" I had with mercurial two months
ago (trying to clone a repository with a lot of heads) is solved in HG
1.5.2, just released.

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Re: [python-committers] 2.7 almost out the door

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/07/10 17:45, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2.7 has been tagged, and I have uploaded docs and the source tarballs
> to python.org. I will wait on binaries before announcing the release.

The end of an era.

Congratulations to all.

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Re: [python-committers] PEP checkin process

[Jesus Cea]

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On 22/07/10 14:16, Nick Coghlan wrote:

>> Just run 'make' in the peps checkout directory.
> 
> That doesn't work for me by default since I don't have python2.5
> installed (although it does turn out it can be made to work by
> overriding PYTHON as Benjamin suggests). Not only that, but the
> makefile builds all the PEPs when I generally only care about the PEP
> I'm working on and PEP 0.

The "make" should include dependency information to only rebuild the
changed documents. :-?.

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[python-committers] Mercurial Status?

[Jesus Cea]

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How is migration to Mercurial going?. Showstoppers?.

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Re: [python-committers] Mercurial Status?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 01/08/10 16:09, Georg Brandl wrote:
> In conclusion, I hope to have everything set up during October, and
> begin a test phase that takes as long as we feel is necessary to get
> acquainted with the new repos and infrastructure before making the
> repositories the main development ones.

Ok. Thanks for providing a schedule :).

Good luck (and justice!) with your (both) thesis. Uhmmm, what is the
plural for thesis, in english?. In Spanish it is the same word, changing
the prefix article: "la tesis"/"las tesis" :).

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Re: [python-committers] trunk is open

[Jesus Cea]

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On 16/11/10 15:36, Senthil Kumaran wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Steve Holden  wrote:
>>
>> Any why wouldn't the py3k branch now be trunk?
> 
> If you meant, why would't the py3k branch be renamed to trunk, then I
> think, it was do with svn properties and tracking of merges.
> We use svnmerge to backport py3k to release31-maint and
> release27-maint. In 2.x series, we used to port 2.x trunk code to py3k
> and then from py3k to release31-maint. In the current scenario, the
> second case remains intact.

All these will be meaningless after we finish the mercurial migration.
God, it is about time :-).

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Re: [python-committers] New hg repo ssh URIs

[Jesus Cea]

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On 24/11/10 14:48, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> All ssh repos can now be accessed by using ssh://h...@hg.python.org/repo
> instead of ssh://h...@hg.python.org/repos/repo. While the old way should
> continue to work, the new address should be considered preferable.

Are those repositories read/write?. What is their use TODAY?. Only for
being ready for 12 december?.

The push will be thru SSH only?. No option for HTTPS pushing?.

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Re: [python-committers] Blocking feature backports

[Jesus Cea]

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On 01/12/10 21:48, R. David Murray wrote:
> My understanding of the current status of svnmerge block is that
> you should use it if it helps you and not worry about it otherwise.
> Georg and I and some others find it useful for managing our own
> patches, but otherwise I think that it isn't being used.

Remember that after 12th December, with Mercurial becoming the primary
version system, the dynamic will change a lot.

Still 12 days to go. I will be very happy :).

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Re: [python-committers] Blocking feature backports

[Jesus Cea]

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On 01/12/10 22:47, R. David Murray wrote:
> Mercurial can't become the primary version system until after we've had
> a test-and-work-out-the-bugs period, so IMO that schedule is going to
> have to be modified.

After two years since Mercurial decision was done, let me daydream a bit
:-).

And I do actually have confidence that the people on charge of this
migration have set a realistic milestone.

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Re: [python-committers] Providing .tgz sources

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/12/10 15:15, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le dimanche 05 décembre 2010 à 12:16 +0100, Georg Brandl a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wonder if it's still necessary to provide .tar.bz2 and .tgz source
>> tarballs.  If anything, it would be nice to provide .tar.xz in addition
>> to .tar.bz2, which has a nicer compression ratio:
>>
>> .tgz - 13 MB
>> .tar.bz2 - 11 MB
>> .tar.xz  - 8.6 MB
> 
> It is likely that many non-GNU based platforms, such as commercial
> Unices, don't know about xz yet (not to mention old Debian / RHEL
> machines). So I would vote to continue providing .tar.bz2 and/or .tgz
> tarballs.

Providing XZ files *IN ADDITION* to gz/bz2 will increase the mindshare
for the format. I am checking the webpage and installing the XZ tools
just now :-).

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Re: [python-committers] Blocking feature backports

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/12/10 20:00, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Personally, I'd still like to defer beta1 until after the Mercurial
> switch (or alternatively, do the final 3.2 release from subversion
> as Raymond suggested).

I would vote +1 to deferral of beta1 until mercurial migration. Anything
pushing mercurial migration would be good. But Beta1 is already out...

Would be shameful to manage 3.2.x using svn...

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Re: [python-committers] Partial commit privileges

[Jesus Cea]

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On 09/01/11 03:18, Victor Stinner wrote:
> The process to gain the commit priviledges is long, and it is sometimes
> difficult to decide if someone should have it or not. Would it be
> possible to have different "levels" of commit priviledes to simplify the
> process? Eg. first only be able to commit on a specific module, and then
> maybe more modules, to finally be able to commit everywhere. It doesn't
> need to be a technical limitation.

I would say that mercurial deployment will change the workflow, and the
difference between core committers and external developers will diffuse.

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Re: [python-committers] New contributors, don't forget to send in a contributor form!

[Jesus Cea]

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On 10/01/11 21:47, Brett Cannon wrote:
> As I am writing the part of the devguide covering getting commit privs,
> I figured it was a good thing to send out an email for our new
> committers to remind them to send in a contributor
> form: http://www.python.org/psf/contrib/ ASAP.

Maybe would be a good idea to write down a checklist for new committers:
get a mentor, send the SSH key, be sure have signed the contributor
agreement, subscribe to the right mailing lists...

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 02/02/11 17:47, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> This is one of the primary problems solved by a dvcs.  You can *always* and
> *easily* work on new features, publish them for comment and review by others,
> make continual progress regardless of the release status of the official
> branches, and easily track movement in those official branches.

That being true, I am interested in the buildbots. Publishing a private
repository is not helpful, if you can't use the buildbots.

I guess the best workflow would be for the Release Manager to create a
clone, keeping the development repository open while the RM checks the
clone and "cherry pick" changesets from the development branch if needed.

When the release is complete, the clone can be tagged and merged back to
the main development.

So, nobody has to wait...

> Pycon 2011 will mark the second anniversary of Guido's pronouncement.  If we
> do nothing else in Atlanta, can we *please* *please* *please* come away from
> there with the conversion operationally completed?

+inf!.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 02/02/11 18:38, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> I guess the best workflow would be for the Release Manager to create a
>> clone, keeping the development repository open while the RM checks the
>> clone and "cherry pick" changesets from the development branch if needed.
> 
> That sounds like a full-time job for the poor Release Manager. We really
> need to merge changesets *ourselves*. It is irresponsible to expect
> someone else to do the grunt job of merging stuff.

The merge here is mostly automatic. In fact, if the RM doesn't change
his/her clone at all, the merge is "null", even if devel repository has
evolved a lot in the meantime.

The cost of the merge will be, usually, proportional to the "private"
changesets done in the clone. If the only patches applied there are
"backports" from the main development line (that is, backport to
candidate release from the mainline), those "doesn't count" to the
complexity.

Ideally, a release candidate clone would have very few patches, and most
of them coming from the main development (or main branch line).

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 02/02/11 19:28, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> The merge here is mostly automatic. In fact, if the RM doesn't change
>> his/her clone at all, the merge is "null", even if devel repository has
>> evolved a lot in the meantime.
> 
> By merge I meant the cherry picking operation itself ("svnmerge").

To be concrete, how many patches went inside 2.7.0 after cutting the
"rc1"?. Ideally, the answer should be "a handful".

AFAIK, there are issues when you cherry pick patches and then you try to
merge back (same patch present in both lines, but no metadata saying
so). But that seems an issue with current HG/cherrypick extension, not
with an abstract mercurial inability. In fact, python could be a push to
improve that in HG.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 02/02/11 19:47, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> I don't think we are talking about branching after rc1 but after beta1,
> so that the feature branch can continue receive non-bugfix patches.
> That's quite many changesets to review.

A beta is like any other branch. The "canonical way" (TM) in mercurial
is to write the patch for the "oldest" supported branch (in this case,
the beta branch), and "up-port" it to the open devel repository.

So, RM could say something like "beta branch is here. Commit there only
things that MUST be in 3.3.0. For general development, commit to
"py3k"". Anybody can merge from "beta" *TO* "py3k", for "up porting".

The trick here is to patch the oldest supported version, and "up port"
later, via mercurial merge.

Just exactly the reverse of current workflow.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 02/02/11 21:30, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> Just exactly the reverse of current workflow.
> 
> And for good reason (IMO).  It's often much less clear exactly how far back a
> specific patch should be committed when it's first being developed.  It makes
> much more sense to me to fix a problem in the current development branch
> first, and then determine if, how, and where the patch should be back ported.

While I do agree with your point, when I take over a bug I test all
supported versions to see which ones are buggy. Now you can choose to
patch the latest and backport, or to patch the oldest and up-port. It is
a choice. Mercurial is designed for up-porting.

In fact, "up-porting" is usually better, because you don't have to think
if you must downport or not. Versión "n+1" is always a superset of
versión "n". So you "up-port" *ALWAYS*, automatically (mostly) via merge.

If you choose the backporting way, you must take a decision about what
to backport, for every single changeset. And god forbids you forget
something in the process...

I agree you have a point when you write a new functionality for the
latest version and LATER somebody decides that a particular changeset
must be backported. Or a fix not planed for old versions is re-scheduled.

Would be very nice if the HG cherrypick extension would be more clever.
Of if mercurial would recognize that a patch is already manually
committed in both lines, and cope with that gracefully when merging. I
am sure we are not alone with these issues, and I hope somebody is
actually doing something about it.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/02/11 13:04, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Jesus Cea  wrote:
>> In fact, "up-porting" is usually better, because you don't have to think
>> if you must downport or not. Versión "n+1" is always a superset of
>> versión "n". So you "up-port" *ALWAYS*, automatically (mostly) via merge.
> 
> As I said, I'm happy to roll with the proposed workflow as documented
> in the PEP, based on the advice from experts that Mercurial doesn't
> really suit our current work flow. I'm just noting that I expect the
> result will be fewer fixes in maintenance branches, since it is harder
> to divide the tasks of implementing a fix for the main line of
> development and applying that fix to the maintenance branches (unlike
> the way it often happens now).

The problem now is that patches in the development branch are
"forgotten" and not backported when appropiate, and nobody cares about
"blocking" versions to "not backport". Now running "svnmerge" to do a
real merge is very risky, because the "blocking" is not actually
maintained. People uses "svnmerge" backporting patch by patch, manually.
Automatic mode is a disaster, because nobody cares about "blocking" in
"svnmerge".

If we up-port, no patch is forgotten. The rule should be: "patches in
n+1 are a SUPERSET of patches in n". With this rule, mercurial takes
care of everything (a patch in n+1 can 'undo' a patch up-ported from n,
if needed, keeping the rule).

> The worse possibility is that fixes may be applied to maintenance
> branches and not to the main line of development, leading to
> regressions after upgrades (since the associated tests wouldn't be
> forward ported either).

That is not going to happen, because the mercurial merging between
maintenance and development. This is the up-porting side, and merging
should be automatic, you don't need to track anything, it is
automagically done by mercurial.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/02/11 15:07, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> One useful thing I have personally gotten out of this discussion is to
> identify the core reason I feel backporting is the "right" way to
> handle maintenance branches: it ensures that the *tests* that confirm
> a bug has been fixed are always applied to the *latest* branch first.
> This means that there should never be regressions of tested bug fixes,
> even after a major version upgrade. When fixes and their associated
> tests are applied to the oldest branch first, the only thing ensuring
> the forward port isn't forgotten is manual review, thus opening the
> door to regressions following a major version upgrade.

I am not sure I understand correctly. It is 4:15AM in Spain and I need
to sleep badly.

"Up-porting" CAN'T be forgotten because it is done "automagically" vía
mercurial merges. That is the point...

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 10:54, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Jesus Cea  wrote:
>> "Up-porting" CAN'T be forgotten because it is done "automagically" vía
>> mercurial merges. That is the point...
> 
> So developer A checks in a fix on 2.7, then gets sidetracked before
> forward porting it.
> 
> When does it make it to 3.2 or the main development branch?
> 
> Does everyone doing a forward merge from the maintenance branches run
> the risk of being landed with the task of doing a bulk merge of any
> forgotten forward ports before they can forward port the fix they're
> actually trying to implement?

This is a social problem, not a tech one. In my opinion, the "owner" of
a fix can not be considered "done" until the patch is merged everywhere.

In fact, if all the branches were in the same repository (I do not
advocate it), you can check it at push time.

Failing to comply would be as bad as committing a patch leaving all
buildbots in red, or unbuildable code.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 11:19, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> I don't understand why the developers have to follow the tools and
> not the tools the developers.

Well, the tool is designed for a particular workflow. If you do
something else, you are fighting the tool and not taking advantage of
its bigger strenght.

I am advocating a particular workflow (reverse to current) because it is
"natural" to mercurial and I find it sensible. That said, the fact is
that current workflow can not be used comfy with current mercurial. That
is a shameful limitation, I do agree.

Some people is working in solving this limitations. But we have to
consider if using a "non natural" workflow would alienate new coders
familiar with "natural" mercurial workflow. Since one of the objectives
of HG migration is to ease external contributions, doing thing "the
right way" would help too.

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Re: [python-committers] Create a Mercurial repository with a branch per issue

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 12:52, Victor Stinner wrote:
> It would be nice to create a branch for each issue (or each attached to
> an issue?)

Change "branch" to "temporal clone".

I support this, but implementation would be non trivial.

I have missed forever about being able to check a fix before
"officially" committing it. Your request would provide it.

The problem is how to cope with security issues (a patch could execute
arbitrary code in the buildbots) and how to change the buildbot
reporting tools to NOT mix the results from different changeset.

Currently when I try to identify the changeset that introduces a bug,
and I do a bisection search, "everybody" can see that "experiment" in
the public buildbots. That is not very sensible. For instance, you can
see "red" buildbots, when those failing builds are not for HEAD and so,
not relevant to anybody else. I can sympathize with each core developer
just committing a patch and getting a rush because she sees red
buildbots... not related to the patch. More, she has to wait until I
finish before she can see results relevant to her.

Rebasing is good before committing to the "real" repository, but anybody
with a checkout clone will suffer. I guess the clone should be
automatically destroyed as soon as the clone is merged back to the real
repository.

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Re: [python-committers] Create a Mercurial repository with a branch per issue

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 13:15, Victor Stinner wrote:
>> Rebasing is good before committing to the "real" repository, but anybody
>> with a checkout clone will suffer.
> 
> Why?

Rebasing alters history. It messes with the "inmmutable" nature of
history. Anybody with a clone must do it. If you don't do, when you
resync, you will see a new head and your clone will be "different" of
the one doing the rebase.

That is, suppose:

- -->1-->2-->3-->4

Now you rebase and collapse changesets 2-4, to get ready for merging
with the real respository. You have:

- -->1-->5

in your repository.

Anybody that had cloned from you, when pull, will have in her repository:

- -->1-->2-->3-->4
\
 \-->5

Two heads, "different" repository views. If this second person has a
patch in his own repository, and you try to merge back, you will get
again the original changeset list, two heads, etc.

As a general rule, rebase should be done ONLY in personal clones not
shared by anybody. Or, in this particular case, a clone should be
automatically destroyed after merging to main development line.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 13:25, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
>> The problem now is that patches in the development branch are
>> "forgotten" and not backported when appropiate
> 
> Sorry, do you have real examples of this?

None I can show just now :(. I do remember discussion about some patches
not being backported because people were trying to speed up py3k.

>> If we up-port, no patch is forgotten. The rule should be: "patches in
>> n+1 are a SUPERSET of patches in n". With this rule, mercurial takes
>> care of everything (a patch in n+1 can 'undo' a patch up-ported from n,
>> if needed, keeping the rule).
> 
> That's a theoretical and IMO naïve point of view. In practice, there are
> many changesets that will not "up-port" cleanly and will need manual
> work. The work will not be much less than with down-porting.

I don't understand how "backporting" is easy, and "upporting" is
difficult. You have to potentially manually tweak in both cases.

Let's see.

We have these branches:

1. Old releases, still supported (security, critical fixes). These
releases are mostly static. Any patch there would "naturally" need to be
applied too in more modern branches. That is, "up porting".

2. Released and supported releases: These are bug fix only branches.
Traffic should be low. Since only fixes go in, every changeset should be
applied too to more modern branches. That is, "up porting".

3. Not yet, but about to be released branch. Currently this "freezes"
the trunk, or patches are very restricted. For instance, "no new
features". This status can be pretty lenghtly now, months. I suggest to
"clone" the trunk here. This will be the beta/rc/final/maintenance
clone. Trunk remains fully open. This clone has a restricting patch
policy (no new features in the beginning, fixes only later). Any patch
here, bug fix, documentation clean up, etc. should be "up ported" too to
trunk. Trunk is open all the time.

Some fellows said that this would disincentivate contributions to the
beta branch. In fact, coders would love to see their fixes/code/whatever
they do being released in the next python version, three months for now,
instead in the n+1 version, two years away. So I guess people would rush
to commit to the beta clone (just like now!). But coders with long term
plans can keep working in the trunk, freely. For instance, new stdlib
modules.

The only issue in this plan would be trunk evolving so fast that
up-porting changesets from the beta to trunk (merging) would be non
automatic. The beta being a few months long would help. Anyway, we could
have a social rule to "avoid" doing heavy incompatible work for a while,
until the release. Anyway, we already have the issue now, because if
trunk is wildy diverging, we already have issues when backporting from
trunk to the maintenance branches. In fact this situation disincentivate
"back porting", since it would be costly. If you "up port", you can't
left behind any patch.

My guess is that most coders would concentrate in the beta clone,
because they want their work released as fast as possible, and people
working in trunk would be guys adding new functionality. I bet that
overlapping changes would be pretty rare, during the beta/rc time.

Something to note is that mercurial merge is pretty clever, and can
follow things like file renaming/moving, line number offset, etc. It is
a "three way merge", far more powerful that simply trying to apply a
patch to a file. Mercurial do a history evaluation and know how to
modify your changeset to be applied cleanly, most of the time. For
instance, if the file was modified in trunk to add a 2000 line patch,
mercurial knows how to "offset" your changeset before trying to
automatically apply.

PS: When a branch moves to a *temporal* restricted commit state, a new
clone should be created, for people to keep working in the new minor
release. That is, we are now in 3.2.0 release candidate. Patching is
very restricted. If we had a 3.2.0 release candidate clone, MUST SHIP
changes would be in the 3.2.0rc repository, but patches planned for
3.2.1 would be being already being committed the clone. When 3.2.0 is
released and the branch is marked as "maintenance", the 3.2.1 clone
would merge into the 3.2 maintenance and destroyed.

The point is... to never temporally freeze any repository.

The only frozen repositories would be dead ones.

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Re: [python-committers] Create a Mercurial repository with a branch per issue

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 14:31, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
>> As a general rule, rebase should be done ONLY in personal clones not
>> shared by anybody. Or, in this particular case, a clone should be
>> automatically destroyed after merging to main development line.
> 
> That's why I think it's much cleaner to work with mq to build a clean
> single-commit patch,  even if a clone may be used for temporary states
> and sharing.

Well, MQ are not easily shared. If you don't share your clone anyway,
you can freely commit to it and then collapse all your changes via
rebase, before pushing.

> We are experiencing merge hell right now in Distutils2, as the
> contributor list grows, because of the way people work with clones. We
> are polluting history with a lot of "merge" commits because it's the
> most simple way to work w/ mercurial.

I have tendency to commit to my clones constantly. I can do 100 commits
per day, in my private clone. When pushing to the main repository, you
have the option to push all the tiny changesets, or collapse all of them
via rebase.

I am not sure what way is better. Keeping ALL the history would be
interesting anyway, but most of my tiny commits would break the build (I
commit everytime I stop for thinking, pee, whatever. It is like autosave
in my text editor), so things like "bisect" would be difficult to use.
And reviewing 200 stupid patches when patch n+20 undo buggy patch n+1,
is not pleasant.

This is a social issue.

> I don't want to fork this thread but I think we should set up a
> "mercurial good practice" guide somewhere for hg.python.org could be
> awesome, in particular since the number of indirect contributors is
> going to grow with Python under a DVCS

+1. But first we need the mercurial switchover to be done and to get
some first hand experience before writing down the best practices *wiki* :).

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 16:49, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On the other hand, if *any* forward port naturally picks up all the
> missed forward ports, then the Mercurial perspective starts to make
> more sense (especially if the merge is able to exploit the DAG in
> order to make fewer mistakes).

A mercurial merge "brings" "automatically" (if can be done) any patch in
a side, to the other side. Basically "joins" the two sides making a
single one.

clone 1:

A->B->C->D

Clone 2:

A->E->F->G->H

When you merge you have:

A->B->C->D->I
 \   /
  \->E->F->G->H-/

Code in "I" contains all "B", "C", "D", "E", "F", "G" and "H".

This merging is "automatic" (if there are no conflicts!). That is the
magic in Mercurial. The merge machinery. It is a huge improvement over
subversion, even in 1.6.*.

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Re: [python-committers] Create a Mercurial repository with a branch per issue

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 16:58, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I guess this is just a Mercurial quirk I'll have to get used to.  It's not
> something I ever bother with in Bazaar because, while those intermediate
> commits are still part of the merged branch's history, it's generally hidden
> from you when you dump the log or bisect, unless you specifically request to
> see them.

"""
$ hg help log
[...]
- --follow-first   only follow the first parent of merge changesets
[...]
- -m --only-merges show only merges
[...]
- -M --no-merges   do not show merges
[...]
"""

Would be interesting that "bisect" would be "improved" to follow only
the first parent in a merge.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 17:03, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Given that this workflow is a social one, encouraged but not imposed by the
> technology, how will we respond when things are done The Wrong Way?  What are
> the effects if someone forgets and commits a patch to trunk first?  Have we
> hosed the branches or is it just a PITA to recover?

The obvious approach would be to use "transplant" to copy the patch to
the "old" clone. If the patch in both places is the same, mercurial
recognize the fact. If they are not, you have a false conflict, to be
resolved in the merge (usually you do this just now, that you have the
details fresh in mind, and if you don't do, somebody has to do it).

Other option is to export the patch from the "new" clone, backout the
patch ("hg backout" command), apply the patch to the "old" clone and
then do a regular merge.

As said, this is a social problem. For instance, if I write a patch to
"new" and do not backport, somebody else can do it "eventually". This is
practical, but you can "forget" or decide you don't want to spend your
time maintaining, let's say, 2.7.*.

But using "up-porting", when somebody does a merge from "old" to "new",
the operation brings all patches from "old". If the patches doesn't
apply cleanly (mercurial merge machinery is clever, but not everything
can be done automatically), the guy doing a merge is going to curse badly.

Ideally, every changeset committed to "old" should be "merged"
inmediatelly to "new", by the patch maker. I don't consider an issue to
be "closed" until this is done.

Not sure if this should be a real rule, but if "old" and "new" reside in
the same repository (for instance, named branches), you can check this
in the push "hook" living in the server. That is, the hook check that
the changesets you are pushing don't create a new head in "old" (your
patch create a head, but your merge "joins" heads in both "old" and
"new". When you push, you push both changesets at the same time, and the
repository is verified and updated atomically).

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 17:31, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> How do you "block"?

What patches in "3.2" you don't want in "3.3"?.

Remember the rule: "Patches in n+1 are a SUPERSET of patches in n". But
a patch in "n+1" can undo a patch in "n", keeping this rule true always.

The usual approach is to do a merge just before the patch you don't
want, and then a "null merge" just after the patch you don't want. "null
merge" = a merge metadata update without actually bringing any new code.

I can't think any reason you want this, beside avoiding the "change 3.2
to 3.2.1 strings" to propagate to trunk.

In this particular situation, the merge would conflict (because
"3.2->3.2.1" conflicts with "3.3", no "3.2" anywhere in trunk). Solving
this conflict is trivial (just drop that change), and now you can retry
merging again, this time successfully.

Ideally, when you push to the repository, you push your patches *AND*
the merges, all in an atomic operation. So you don't move the merge
burden to somebody else. I just wrote about this in a just sent email.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/02/11 17:51, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Sure.  I guess my question is, what do *you* do in that case?  Are
> you blocked because I didn't do my job properly?  Can you tell your
> merge to ignore my change so you can keep making progress, complete
> your patch, and send me a nastygram to finish my work? :)

You can, but is not trivial neither automatic.

There are quite a few strategies. For instance, I can move my patch
BEFORE your patch (vía rebase), creating a new head, and merging my head
with trunk. My head is solved. Yours is still hanging around.

Or you can force this via a push "hook": no heads left behind! :-)

I just wrote an email about this.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

nd history tracking) to
automatically solve a lot of small details like file renaming, offsets
changings, whatever.

7. In the meantime, any patch to 3.2 clone (in RC state, so they should
be only a handful) is propagated to 3.2.1 clone and trunk clone, via
mercurial merge.

8. When 3.2(.0) is published, the 3.2 clone is open again. We
(atomatically) merge 3.2.1 clone to 3.2, and destroy 3.2.1. When time
come for 3.2.1 beta, we clone a 3.2.2 from 3.2 branch, and repeat.

In this schema, no developer has to WAIT for
anything/anybody/BETA/RC/Whatever.

I can see that having a 3.2.1 clone while 3.2 is closed complicates
things, but it has the huge advantage of not delaying any forward
progress. Anyway, this part is optional. You can forget the 3.2.1 clone
and simply forbid merging to 3.2 while is is in RC state. When 3.2 is
released, 3.1 is merged to 3.2, bringing all delayed patches. And people
waiting for 3.2 opening to commit new code, can do it now.

During 3.2 RC, you can merge to trunk from 3.1, for people working on
trunk to get the fixes. When you merge from 3.1 to 3.2, you get the
fixes there too. When merging 3.2 to trunk, later, Mercurial is clever
enough to skip over the changesets merged vía 3.1 and coming again thru
3.2. This is something you can't do with SVN.

> As a user of 3.x (and not 2.x), I will work on bug fixes for 3.x. If the
> bug involves 2.7 also and the fix transports easily to 2.7, fine. If
> not, someone who cares about 2.7 can do the additional work.

If what you are saying is that you don't want to waste your time porting
your 3.x fixes to 2.7, of even worse, developing your patches in 2.7 and
"up-porting to 3.x"... That is an entirely different topic.

With current python-dev commitment, any bug discovered in 3.1 that
affect 2.7, should be solved in both. In fact, 2.7 fixing should more
prioritary that 3.1, since 2.7.x is going to survive far longer that
3.1, 3.2, 3.3 and maybe 3.4...

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/02/11 00:36, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
>> Look at issue 11089. It is applied in 2.7 and 3.1, but it can't be
>> applied to 3.2 because we are in RC state now. Now, somebody *MUST*
>> remember to apply this patch when the 3.2 branch in open again. That is
>> a waste of mental energy for nothing.
> 
> That's because Raymond chose to break the usual workflow of fixing in
> 3.2 first. If he had waited for 3.2 to unfreeze first, there would be no
> "waste of mental energy for nothing".

In this case the issue should be open for the length of 3.2 RC state. In
three weeks time your triage will vanish from memory and when 3.2 is
open, "somebody" has to go back to this bug, refresh details already
forgotten, write a patch for py3k trunk, "svnmerge" to 3.2, 3.1 and 2.7.

If I discover a bug, triage it and can write a patch NOW, when all the
details are fresh in my mind, I should do. Waiting because a branch is
"closed" is a waste. If I can commit NOW and I know that patch
propagation will be automatic via mercurial merges when the branch is
open again, I rather prefer to solve it now, commit, and move on.

People now must backport via "svnmerge", manually. Up-porting is
automatic, via mercurial merges. You can't "leave a patch behind"
because you forgot. It is simply not possible (you can do explicitly if
a patch must not be up-ported, but that is the exception, not the rule).

> That said, I don't think it's useful to discuss hg workflows at length.
> We certainly already did so in the past, and nothing came out (otherwise
> we wouldn't have this discussion again). Someone could sit and produce a
> written proposal evaluating the various possibilities, and we can
> iterate from that.

I do agree. I am getting the feeling that (some not small group of)
python core devs are not familiar with mercurial at all. That is a bit
scary, considering the two years migration patch (and counting) and that
to discuss workflow you must know the abilities of the tools... Really
scary :).

Do not consider my comment an attack. We are all busy people and change
is painful. I sympathize, actually. But two years has been long enough...

As a developer I think that "up porting" is the way to go. And I think
that the "non block" clone philosophy should be something to aim.
Actually the main problem I see there is buildbot infraestructure: if
you keep more clones open (2.7, 2.7.x, 3.1, 3.1.x, 3.2, 3.2.x, trunk),
buildbots should support that. More complicated yet if we want the
option to include arbitrary repositories around in the buildbot
infraestructure for, let say, developing long term features.

2.7: maintenance branch.
2.7.x: clone of 2.7 to host patches for 2.7.x when 2.7 is closed (RC
state) getting ready for releasing 2.7.(x-1).

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/02/11 01:07, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
> Le samedi 05 février 2011 à 01:00 +0100, Jesus Cea a écrit :
>>> Someone could sit and produce a
>>> written proposal evaluating the various possibilities, and we can
>>> iterate from that.
>>
>> I do agree.
> 
> Can you try writing said document?

I could write down what I already explained this last days. But I have
the feeling that it is a losing position. Anyway, anybody has an
alternative that doesn't fight against the strenghts of Mercurial?.

I would like to read the opinion of the people actually doing the HG
migration work.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] Code Simplicity » Open Source Community, Simplified

[Jesus Cea]

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On 06/02/11 04:21, Brett Cannon wrote:
> I will get a workflow written up and then email the people I know who
> are already heavy hg users (Antoine, Georg, and Dirkjan; if you want
> to be included in the discussion let me know) to read it over.

Could I read it too?. I have been using HG for the last three years, at
least.

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Re: [python-committers] [PSF-Members] [Fwd: Re: Push rights for Ross Lagerwall]

[Jesus Cea]

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On 09/03/11 14:35, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Well, I agree that not so much development effort has been lost because
> of us checking contributor agreements, but I think there's a reason, and
> you might not like it.

I sent my signature in 2008 (I faxed it to USA). Some time after,
somebody asked me to send it again, because they couldn't find it
anymore (they got it initially, because I got my commit privileges).

So, somebody lost it, and somebody found it was missing and ask for it
again. So, somebody was paying attention and investing time being sure
everything is ok.

That said, I have used the same PGP key for 15 years. Would be nice if a
digital signature would be enough. I am probably an exception, nevertheless.


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Re: [python-committers] PEPs repo converted

[Jesus Cea]

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On 24/03/11 09:12, Georg Brandl wrote:
> On 24.03.2011 02:35, Ned Deily wrote:
>> In article ,
>>  Georg Brandl  wrote:
>>
>>> Please commit any PEP changes to hg.python.org/peps.
>>
>> Looks like the Version and Last-Modified keywords formerly supplied by 
>> svn are now AWOL on the generated web pages.
> 
> Thanks, I've fixed that now (by locally enabling the keyword
> extension).

These requirements (activate the keyword extension, and set it to
"**.txt" files) should be documented somewhere... :).

BTW, can I actually push to "hg.python.org/peps", as indicated?. I would
expect something like "ssh://h...@hg.python.org/peps".

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Re: [python-committers] PEPs repo converted

[Jesus Cea]

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On 24/03/11 22:29, Georg Brandl wrote:
>> These requirements (activate the keyword extension, and set it to 
>> "**.txt" files) should be documented somewhere... :).
> 
> Well, I don't think it's required for anyone other than python.org. 
> Those who edit the PEPs just need to keep the $Revision$ and $Date$
> intact.

So, must I disable the extension KW again?. I am confused.

Maybe editors simply must keep "$Revision$" and "$Date$", since those
keywords are expanded in the server, for showing in docs.python.org?.

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Re: [python-committers] PEPs repo converted

[Jesus Cea]

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PEP 0001 still lists SVN as the way to checkout/commit PEPs. I guess
that place would be the right place to document the details about
keywords & mercurial.

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Re: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda

[Jesus Cea]

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On 07/04/11 22:41, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 à 10:27 -0700, Brett Cannon a écrit :
>> The devguide knows all: http://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html
> 
> Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to pydot...@python.org?
> Or?

What is preventing me to send a fake SSH key to that acount, from a
gmail address, saying "hi, this is Nadeem. You are waiting for this" ;-).

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Re: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda

[Jesus Cea]

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On 08/04/11 04:25, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>> What is preventing me to send a fake SSH key to that acount, from a
>> gmail address, saying "hi, this is Nadeem. You are waiting for this" ;-).
> 
> Well, that would be fairly pointless considering you already have
> commit privs...

When I -slowly and sneaky- trojanize socket module and, additionally,
add all the buildbots to my spambot network, I will not use my own SSH key.

I promise :).

I should quit IT security and grow vegetables somewhere... :-p

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Re: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda

[Jesus Cea]

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On 08/04/11 04:36, Brett Cannon wrote:
>> I should quit IT security and grow vegetables somewhere... :-p
>
> As someone who did some security stuff as part of his PhD, I totally
> agree with that; get out of security or else it will make you paranoid.

Too late. Being in the field for the last ~15 years cualifies me as
"please, don't ask me what I do for a living in your party, if you
expect to sleep comfy tonight".

Another side effect is the compulsory need to read everything
tangentially related to security. Where can I find your PhD online? :).

(Congrats for your recent PhD!)

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Re: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda

[Jesus Cea]

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On 08/04/11 04:48, Jesus Cea wrote:
> Too late. Being in the field for the last ~15 years cualifies me as
> "please, don't ask me what I do for a living in your party, if you
> expect to sleep comfy tonight".

Do not ask me either why I am awake and using a computer at 04:50 AM
Spanish time. Would be not nice to your blood pressure.

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Re: [python-committers] English 'precise' is only an adjective, not a verb.

[Jesus Cea]

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On 25/04/11 21:44, Terry Reedy wrote:
> This mistake, which I have seen before, has an understandable reason.
> 'Precise' is derived (borrowed) from the French "pre'cis" which is at

Thanks for the nice explanation. I find interesting that english, being
so used to interchange verbs, adjetives and nouns, is so picky here :).

For instance, in Spanish we have a translation for "searcher", but not
for "finder". It is a non-word in spanish :). English is usually so
liberal, in comparison... :)

Don't ask me for the plural of "virus" in different lenguajes :-p.

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Re: [python-committers] 3.2.1 rc 2

[Jesus Cea]

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On 19/05/11 20:33, Georg Brandl wrote:
> As I've already said in another thread, I plan for 3.2.1 r2 as soon as
> http://bugs.python.org/issue12084 is fixed.  This is hopefully this
> weekend, but may be next.  Final is, as always, one week later.

Would you comment about the push policy to 3.2 branch?.

Are you doing the release work in a separate clone?. Can we push to 3.2
with no restrictions?. That would be a very nice side effect of
mercurial migration.

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Re: [python-committers] Mercurial upgrade

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/07/11 21:01, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> I've upgraded the Mercurial version on hg.python.org to 1.9. Also,
> I've enabled the experimental "generaldelta" repository feature on 
> the server, which makes the repository smaller (down from ~350 MB to 
> ~190 MB), regardless of the client version.
> 

"generaldelta" is marked as "experimental". Is it wise to activate?.

In fact Mercurial 1.9 dropped "experimental" 'parentdelta', so
"experimental" actually is... quite experimental and not garanteed:).

And yes, I have read your posts to HG development mailinglist in May,
and I have big hopes for "generaldelta" or something close to it. But I
will wait until is "official" (luckily activate per default for new
repositories/network clones).

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Re: [python-committers] Mercurial upgrade

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/07/11 08:36, Georg Brandl wrote:
> parentdelta was removed in favor of generaldelta... and you can't
> really get *more* general :)
> 
> But even if it was removed, you can always (using clone --pull
> locally) create a clone that doesn't use that format before you
> upgrade to the hypothetical version with generaldelta removed.

I know. It is what users of "parentdelta" must do to convert their
repositories BEFORE they migrate to HG 1.9, if they are smart enough to
pay attention to this BEFORE upgrading :).

My question, actually, is why to hurry using "generaldelta". We could
wait three more months until it is declared "official". Maybe Antoine
idea, that would make sense, is python.org being a tester to help to
actually test "generaldelta" to qualify for production.

I am fine with that, if somebody with access takes care to do a "hg
verify" frequently :).

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[python-committers] Cutting 3.3 branch now. Why not?

[Jesus Cea]

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Python 3.3 is currently in beta, so the rythm of new patches in
"default" will decrease and people with new features MUST wait until
3.3 is out. I think this is a waste of time. And even if people is
working with HG private clones, they can't test using the buildbots
neither mark a bug as fixed in the tracker.

If we create a new 3.3 branch *NOW* and add it to the buildbots,
people can keep working in "default" full speed (for 3.4), while 3.3
branch is getting ready for general release. We only need to remember
to appy the same rule current rule: any patch in branch "x" must be
"merged" into branch "x+1" too.

Has this step been considered?. I think it is a nice improvement that
HG enables and we are not using.

What do you think?.

PS: In the past some people said that this "feature freeze" forces
devs to concentrate in getting the release ready. This is a good
point, but it should be a social issue to solve, not a technical one.
I, for one, would personally invest more time in fixing upcoming 3.3
(soon to be released) than hacking future 3.4 (two years away!). No
need to "press me" with an ¿obsolete? technical limitation.

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Re: [python-committers] Cutting 3.3 branch now. Why not?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 29/06/12 10:07, Georg Brandl wrote:
> And as Ross says: you *can* use the buildbots for personal
> branches.

I missed that. How is it done?.

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[python-committers] Alexander Belopolsky

[Jesus Cea]

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Alexander Belopolsky is a core developer but the bugtracker doesn't
have a "contributor form received" flag for him?

An oversight?. Can anybody check the forms and change the flag?

Check: 

Thanks!.

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Re: [python-committers] Alexander Belopolsky

[Jesus Cea]

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On 21/09/12 03:09, Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
> FWIW, here is what Martin wrote to me ~ 1.5 years ago.  If the
> form has not been found by now, it probably cannot be found at all.
> I have no problem resubmitting it again if necessary.

I had to send mine twice :). Do you mind to try again? :).

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Re: [python-committers] Alexander Belopolsky

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On 25/09/12 13:26, Georg Brandl wrote:
> May I note that it's commonly considered bad practice to put the
> name of a person in the subject without any explication?  E.g.
> "Commit privileges for Chris Jerdonek" is fine, "Alexander
> Belopolsky" is not.  We're certainly not discussion everything
> about Alexander in this thread :)

I agree. Thanks for pointing it out. Please, excuse me.

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[python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

[Jesus Cea]

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On 29/09/12 10:35, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Until the last ordinary 3.2 bugfix release is done (which will be
> soon), the usual procedure for 3.x will be to check into 3.2, merge
> into 3.3, and then merge into default, except of course for a)
> fixes of 3.3-only features and b) trivial things like typos that
> you don't feel have to be in 3.2.4.
> 
> default is now Python 3.4, and new features can be committed
> there.

So, if I understand correctly, the current situation is this:

2.6: Security fixes only
2.7, 3.2, 3.3: Bugfixes only
2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 3.0, 3.1: Dead

After 3.2.4 is published ("soon"), 3.2 would move to "security fixes
only". Am I right?

I wonder if we have a deadline for supporting 2.6 yet. How about 2.7?.

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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

[Jesus Cea]

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On 01/10/12 14:23, Georg Brandl wrote:
> I've now added lifespan information to the 3.2 and 3.3 release 
> schedule PEPs, perhaps Barry and Benjamin could do the same for
> 2.6 to 3.1.

http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0398/

"""
3.3 Lifespan

3.3 will receive bugfix updates approximately every 4-6 months until
one release after the release of 3.4.0 final. After that, security
updates (source only) will be released until 5 years after the release
of 3.3.0 final, which will be September 2017.
"""

I am not a native english speaker, but I guess the intention is to do
a final bugfix release for 3.3 after 3.4.0 is out, before moving 3.3
to "security fixes only". Could you possibly clarify the wording in
the PEP?.

Sorry if I am being a pain :).

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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

[Jesus Cea]

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On 02/10/12 02:25, R. David Murray wrote:
>> 3.3 will receive bugfix updates approximately every 4-6 months
>> until one release after the release of 3.4.0 final. After that,
>> security
[...]

> As a native English speaker it is not immediately obvious to me
> how to make that clearer.  Is it that the antecedent of "one
> release" isn't clear?

I naivelly interpret "until one release after the release of 3.4.0" as
talking about doing another 3.4 release. I find it ambiguous about
what branch we are talking about.

Maybe something in the line of "the last bugfix release of 3.3 will be
done after 3.4.0 is published". Or "After 3.4.0 is released, we will
release a final bugfix release of 3.3".

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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution

[Jesus Cea]

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On 26/12/12 17:38, Brian Curtin wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Ezio Melotti
>  wrote:
>> And a side effect of being welcoming is that you get every kind
>> of people. Different people have different behaviors and skills.
>> I don't think his lack of social skills is worse than e.g. the
>> lack of English skills of some of the contributors.  In both
>> cases the intentions are not bad, but the message might be
>> difficult to understand and thus can be misunderstood. These
>> people shouldn't be marginalized just because of their lack of
>> skills.
> 
> Now we're just trying to marginalize abuse. There is no lack of
> skills that is causing this, and it's not any sort of
> misunderstanding. Nick has presented numerous examples of this.

I found this text very interesting and quite valuable:

http://producingoss.com/

Notably relevant here:

http://producingoss.com/en/difficult-people.html

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Re: [python-committers] MSDN subscriptions - new or renew

[Jesus Cea]

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I was wondering if we could ask Oracle (pufff) about Solaris 10/11
patch support :-?.

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Re: [python-committers] Please don't commit to 3.2 branch anymore

[Jesus Cea]

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On 28/03/13 08:55, Georg Brandl wrote:
> with 3.2.4 being the last regular 3.2 maintenance release and the
> rc out of the door, the 3.2 branch should only be committed to for
> security releases.  So please don't commit anything there anymore.
> To help everyone remember, I've configured the push hook to reject
> changesets to the 3.2 branch.

What is the procedure for commiting security fixes?. Is it documentes
anywhere?

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Re: [python-committers] Please don't commit to 3.2 branch anymore

[Jesus Cea]

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On 30/03/13 15:15, R. David Murray wrote:
> This is the first time we've been in the situation of having a 
> security-only branch in Mercurial (other than 2.7, which is its own
> head). So I don't believe we have articulated a procedure yet.

I am asking because the commit hook.

I expect patches will be few and far apart, so "somebody" could
disable that hook just for committing those, when time comes. But I
think would be interesting to actually think about it and document
something now, even if we need to update it when we have real experience.

Something simple would be for the hook to refuse any commit in that
branch UNLESS it is coming from the maintainer.

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Re: [python-committers] Please don't commit to 3.2 branch anymore

[Jesus Cea]

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On 30/03/13 16:10, Jesus Cea wrote:
> Something simple would be for the hook to refuse any commit in
> that branch UNLESS it is coming from the maintainer.

BTW, are the hooks available anywhere. I am interested in the "create
patch" hook and the "be sure you merge your patches" hook :). Maybe
some other nice hooks out there.

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Re: [python-committers] Relicensing source code for inclusion in Python

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/04/13 18:30, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> I wrote to the authors (Brendan Cully and Mads Kiilerich) and got
> their informal approval for relicensing and inclusion in Python.

They could sign the contributor agreement and then propose a patch for
inclusion in Python.

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