Re: [Python-Dev] "python.exe is not a valid Win32 app"
In a message of Tue, 15 Dec 2015 11:46:03 +0100, Armin Rigo writes: >Hi all, > >On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Laura Creighton wrote: >> Python 3.5 is not supported on windows XP. Upgrade your OS or >> stick with 3.4 > >Maybe this information should be written down somewhere more official? > I can't find it in any of these pages: > >https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/ >https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-350/ >https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-351/ >https://docs.python.org/3/using/windows.html > >It is found on the following page, to which googling "python 3.5 >windows XP" does not point: > >https://docs.python.org/3.5/whatsnew/3.5.html#unsupported-operating-systems > >Instead, the google query above returns various threads on >stackoverflow and elsewhere where users wonder about that very >question. > > >A bientôt, > >Armin. I already asked for that, on the bug tracker but maybe I picked the wrong issue tracker for that request. So now I have made one here, too. https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/867 Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Do windows 10 users, like windows 7 users need to install a SP before installing Python will work?
In a message of Mon, 07 Dec 2015 14:03:41 -0800, Steve Dower writes: >On 07Dec2015 1324, Steve Dower wrote: >> On 07Dec2015 1250, Laura Creighton wrote: >>> As webmaster, I am dealing with 3 unhappy would-be python users who have >>> windows 10. >>> > > >Not directly related to this thread, but I just pushed an update to the >Windows installers for 3.5.1. (Should avoid people being confused when >the py.exe launcher is removed on upgrade from 3.5.0.) > >There's a chance that people installing over the next 5-10 minutes will >see issues. If anyone asks, just let them know to clear their download >cache and redownload the installer. > >Apologies in advance for the extra support requests this will generate, >and thank you to everyone who helps out by patiently dealing with them. > >Cheers, >Steve I am happy to report that one of my outstanding problems was just fixed by this. It seems that without the launcher he could not find his Python. Many other people who just couldn't get things to work with Windows 10 and 3.5 report that 3.5.1 fixed things for them, once the download button started working for them. And one person, who was a clear member of the would-be scientific python community I just pointed at Anaconda Python and he reports happiness (which is good, because I never understood from his mail what his problem was in the first place.) I still have one who is having problems. We are working on a manual install and he is hitting this: https://bugs.python.org/issue25144 But, all in all, I can report a great increase in happiness in my corner of the world. Thank you and Congratulations. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Do windows 10 users, like windows 7 users need to install a SP before installing Python will work?
In a message of Mon, 07 Dec 2015 21:58:16 +0100, "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: >On 07.12.2015 21:50, Laura Creighton wrote: >> As webmaster, I am dealing with 3 unhappy would-be python users who have >> windows 10. >> >> Right now their first problem is that when they click on the big >> yellow button here: https://www.python.org/downloads/ >> >> instead of getting a download of 3.5.1 they get a redirect to >> https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/ >> >> I've tried them on both the >> Download Windows x86 web-based installer >> >> and >> >> Download Windows x86-64 web-based installer >> >> but still no go, they get the Modify/Repair/Uninstall screen >> like: http://www2.openend.se/~lac/5796.2.png >> >> I do not know how to help them now. > >Have they already tried the regular installers (as opposed to >the web installers) ? No. I really was hoping to not have to walk them through this one, as I don't have a windows machine and have never done it myself. (And my internet connection went away for several hours, so now they are likely asleep. As I should be.) Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Do windows 10 users, like windows 7 users need to install a SP before installing Python will work?
In a message of Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:24:57 -0800, Steve Dower writes: >On 07Dec2015 1250, Laura Creighton wrote: >> As webmaster, I am dealing with 3 unhappy would-be python users who have >> windows 10. >> >> Right now their first problem is that when they click on the big >> yellow button here: https://www.python.org/downloads/ >> >> instead of getting a download of 3.5.1 they get a redirect to >> https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/ > >There were a few web site glitches. I thought I saw Ned dealing with >some earlier? > >> I've tried them on both the >> Download Windows x86 web-based installer >> >> and >> >> Download Windows x86-64 web-based installer >> >> but still no go, they get the Modify/Repair/Uninstall screen >> like: http://www2.openend.se/~lac/5796.2.png > >This means they've already installed it. What is the actual problem >they're having? It is all they are getting. py -3.5 doesn't get them an interpreter. I haven't been able to get them to find a traceback, either. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Do windows 10 users, like windows 7 users need to install a SP before installing Python will work?
As webmaster, I am dealing with 3 unhappy would-be python users who have windows 10. Right now their first problem is that when they click on the big yellow button here: https://www.python.org/downloads/ instead of getting a download of 3.5.1 they get a redirect to https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/ I've tried them on both the Download Windows x86 web-based installer and Download Windows x86-64 web-based installer but still no go, they get the Modify/Repair/Uninstall screen like: http://www2.openend.se/~lac/5796.2.png I do not know how to help them now. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Reference has no mention of list comÃprehensions
So how do we get search to work so that people in the Language Reference who type in 'List Comprehension' get a hit? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Reference has no mention of list comÃprehensions
What I would like is if it were a lot easier for a person who just saw a list comprehension for the very first time, and was told what it is, to have a much, much easier time finding it in the Reference Manual. Would a section on comprehensions in general, defining what a comprehension is be appropriate? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Reference has no mention of list comÃprehensions
In a message of Thu, 03 Dec 2015 15:09:12 +, Random832 writes: >> 6.2.4 Constructing lists, sets and dictionaries -- explicitly or through >> the use of comprehensions > >I don't like the idea of calling it "explicit construction". >Explicit construction to me means the actual use of a call to the >constructor function. Would 6.2.4 Creating lists, sets and dictionaries -- explicitly or through the use of comprehensions get rid of that objection? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Reference has no mention of list comÃprehensions
In a message of Thu, 03 Dec 2015 13:37:17 +, Paul Moore writes: >On 3 December 2015 at 12:51, Laura Creighton wrote: >> Intentional or Oversight? > >Hard to find :-) > >https://docs.python.org/3/reference/expressions.html#displays-for-lists-sets-and-dictionaries > >I went via "Atoms" in the expression section, then followed the links >in the actual grammar spec. > >Paul I think the whole use of the language displays as in 6.2.4. Displays for lists, sets and dictionaries For constructing a list, a set or a dictionary Python provides special syntax called âdisplaysâ, each of them in two flavors: either the container contents are listed explicitly, or they are computed via a set of looping and filtering instructions, called a comprehension. is very odd. I don't know anybody who talks of 'displays'. They talk of 'two ways to construct a'. Who came up with the word 'display' and what does it have going for it that I have missed? Right now I think its chief virtue is that it is a meaningless noun. (But not meaningless enough, as I associate displays with output, not construction). I think that 6.2.4 Constructing lists, sets and dictionaries would be a much more useful title, and 6.2.4 Constructing lists, sets and dictionaries -- explicitly or through the use of comprehensions an even better one. Am I missing something important about the 'display' language? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Python Language Reference has no mention of list com�prehensions
Intentional or Oversight? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] "python.exe is not a valid Win32 app"
In a message of Tue, 01 Dec 2015 10:13:10 -0600, Ryan Gonzalez writes: >Did you get the x86-64 version or x86? If you had gotten the former, it would >lead to that error. No, his problem is his windows XP. Python 3.5 is not supported on windows XP. Upgrade your OS or stick with 3.4 Laura Creighton > >On December 1, 2015 8:30:25 AM CST, Alexei Belenki via Python-Dev > wrote: >>Installed python 3.5 (from https://www.python.org/downloads/) on >>Windows XPsp3/32 >>On starting >>python.exe got the text above in the Windows message box. >>Any suggestions?Thanks.AB >> >> >> >>___ >>Python-Dev mailing list >>Python-Dev@python.org >>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >>Unsubscribe: >>https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/rymg19%40gmail.com > >-- >Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >___ >Python-Dev mailing list >Python-Dev@python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >Unsubscribe: >https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/lac%40openend.se > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2015-11-20 - 2015-11-27)
My mailer just barfed trying to read that summary. The problem is that the mail comes out with the encoding: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" but then wants to print 'http://bugs.python.org/issue25709 opened by Ãrpád Kósa' Can we change the encoding to utf-8 ? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Request for pronouncement on PEP 493 (HTTPS verification backport guidance)
In a message of Wed, 25 Nov 2015 15:39:54 -0500, "R. David Murray" writes: >I think we should include the environment variable support in CPython >and be done with it (nuke the PEP otherwise). Which is what I've >thought from the beginning :) > >--David I like this idea too. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Request for pronouncement on PEP 493 (HTTPS verification backport guidance)
In a message of Tue, 24 Nov 2015 14:05:53 +, Paul Moore writes: >Simply adding "people who have no control over their broken >infrastructure" with a note that this PEP helps them, would be >sufficient here (and actually helps the case for the PEP, so why not? >;-)) But does it help them? Or does it increase the power of those who hand out certificates and who are intensely security conscious over those who would like to get some work done this afternoon? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Support of UTF-16 and UTF-32 source encodings
In a message of Sun, 15 Nov 2015 12:56:18 +, Paul Moore writes: >On 15 November 2015 at 07:23, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >> I don't see any good reason for allowing non-ASCII-compatible >> encodings in the reference CPython interpreter. > >>From PEP 263: > > Any encoding which allows processing the first two lines in the > way indicated above is allowed as source code encoding, this > includes ASCII compatible encodings as well as certain > multi-byte encodings such as Shift_JIS. It does not include > encodings which use two or more bytes for all characters like > e.g. UTF-16. The reason for this is to keep the encoding > detection algorithm in the tokenizer simple. > >So this pretty much confirms that double-byte encodings are not valid >for Python source files. > >Paul Steve Turnbull, who lives in Japan, and speaks and writes Japanese is saying that "he cannot see any reason for allowing non-ASCII compatible encodings in Cpython". This makes me wonder. Is this along the lines of 'even in Japan we do not want such things' or along the lines of 'when in Japan we want such things we want to so brutally do so much more, so keep the reference implementation simple, and don't try to help us with this seems-like-a-good-idea-but-isnt-in-practice' ideas like this one, or Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.5.1 plans
In a message of Sun, 01 Nov 2015 10:51:05 -0800, Larry Hastings writes: > > >On 11/01/2015 09:10 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: >> Put that on python.org as soon as possible. >> even if you need to bump the python 3.5 numbering. >> you get 3.5.1 for this, and this alone and everybody else gets to >> wait for 3.5.2 and when Larry feels this is a good idea. > >Well, let me say this. I haven't been added to any apocalyptic 3.5 bugs >recently. If Steve says he's not seeing novel bugs, and Laura says >she's seeing a steady trickle of people reporting the same bugs that >have already been fixed, then it seems like a good time to cut 3.5.1. > >3.5 does have a single issue on the tracker marked as a "release blocker": > >smtplib.py AUTH LOGIN code messed up sending login and password data >since 3.5 > >http://bugs.python.org/issue25446 > >R. David Murray set it to "release blocker", and I trust his judgment, >so 3.5.1 can't go out until this is fixed. I'll engage with him on the >issue to see about when we can get a fix. > >If I didn't have any release blockers, I'd schedule 3.5.1 for sometime >around three weeks from now. And FYI I want to release 3.4.4 about two >weeks after that. > > >//arry/ Sounds wonderful to me. Thank you Larry. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.5.1 plans
In a message of Sun, 01 Nov 2015 08:23:48 -0800, Steve Dower writes: >"The initial rush of bug reports I see has not gone down. It's been in steady >increase." > >To clarify, I meant unique bugs. When my job is to fix them, more reports of >the same bug are not important to me, especially once they've been fixed but >not released. > >I do understand that someone has to deal with every report, new or not (for my >work project, that's me), and you are appreciated for it especially since it's >not your role. You should probably just have one template redirecting people >to python-list though. > >Top-posted from my Windows Phone sending them to python-list is not a good idea. people get bored at the same old bugs and by now bored python-listers will reply something sarcastic at people with the same old bugs. Especialy if they post there not saying what windows version they have. There is only so much --'be kinder, it may be the 35th time for us, it is still that person's first bug report with the same old same old' I can do. The chief reason I am subscribed to python-list is so that newbies are not greeted with such sarcasm alone. A better experience from the download page should not wait for Larry's other concerns. If the new one is ready to go, and tells XP users to get a new OS and universal-crt missers to go get one here Put that on python.org as soon as possible. even if you need to bump the python 3.5 numbering. you get 3.5.1 for this, and this alone and everybody else gets to wait for 3.5.2 and when Larry feels this is a good idea. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.5.1 plans
In a message of Sun, 01 Nov 2015 05:52:40 -0800, Steve Dower writes: >The installer and the contained contents are currently tied together, making >it fairly difficult to mix and match versions. > >When 3.5.1 happens is up to Larry, but I'm feeling like the initial rush of >bug reports has died down and we should be considering the remaining open ones >in the context of blocking that release. (The XP notification, as well as the >more confusing Vista and Win7 w/o service packs notifications, have been added >already. Python-list will probably keep asking though, just in case it can get >something for free...) > >Cheers, >Steve Webmaster here. The initial rush of bug reports I see has not gone down. It's been in steady increase. This is not a data-blip due to last weekend's whole outage of mail.python.org. Getting the 'XP -- you are out of luck' message and the api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0-dll is Microsofts Universal CRT. You don't have one. You need to install it. Get it here: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=48234 message out of a failed install -- as soon as possible -- would have a serious positive impact around here. Most of the replies I make are of that sort. I have 2 templates to make it quick to do, but still, be nice if I could save my time for others. And I don't report the number of people I talk to with this problem to the bug tracker. This could possibly have mislead you. It is not like the: The 3.5 Windows installer fails with "The TARGETDIR variable must be provided when invoking this installer" bug https://bugs.python.org/issue25144 where I report when I hear about them if I think there is a good chance that having me report it will cause the person who submitted the bug to me to go track it -- because maybe asking him or her to give you more information about their system will help you resolve it. For the first 2 sorts, well, I won't spam you with the knowledge that windows xp users are complaining to webmaster a whole lot about 3.5 not working. But from my end -- sooner python.org serves up the improved installer, the better. Even if you made a release-candidate-right-now to do nothing but that. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Unable to submit a patch to the tracker
In a message of Sun, 01 Nov 2015 08:29:32 +0200, Serhiy Storchaka writes: >I'm unable to submit any file to any issue, neither via web-form nor via >e-mail. Checked with different browsers from different computers. >Meta-tracker doesn't work too. > >http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/meta/issue575 It's working for me. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen
In a message of Thu, 29 Oct 2015 15:50:30 -0500, Ryan Gonzalez writes: >Why not just check the path of the imported modules and compare it with the >Python library directory? My friend Åsa who is 12 years old suggested exactly this at the club. If this works then I will be certain to mention this to her. I said that I would ask 'how hard is this?' Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen
In a message of Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:26:08 -0700, Mark Roseman writes: >Laura, I think what you want should actually be more-or-less doable in IDLE. > >The main routine that starts IDLE should be able to detect if it starts >correctly (something unlikely to happen if a significant stdlib module is >shadowed), watch for an attribute error of that form and try to determine if >shadowing is the cause, and if so, reissue a saner error message. > >The subprocess/firewall error is occurring because the ‘string’ problem in >your example isn’t being hit right away so a few startup things already are >happening. The point where we’re showing that error (as a result of a timeout) >should be able to check as per the above that IDLE was able to start alright, >and if not, change or ignore the timeout error. > >There’ll probably be some cases (depending on exactly what gets shadowed) that >may be difficult to get to work, but it should be able to handle most things. > >Mark Mark, how splendid. Need I submit a bug report/feature request to get this happening? Very, very pleased to have mentioned it ... Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen
In a message of Thu, 29 Oct 2015 19:30:09 +, Paul Moore writes: >On 29 October 2015 at 18:45, Donald Stufft wrote: >> So I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s true that people don=E2=80=99t shad= >> ow the standard library, they just have various ways to do it that have s= >> everal gotchas and require people to generally hack around the limitation= >> .=C2=A0 > >(Your mailer or mine seems to have gone weird with encoding...) Dstuffts. I see this problem too Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen
In a message of Thu, 29 Oct 2015 19:13:08 +, Paul Moore writes: >> I am actually sick of the 'consenting adults' argument. >> I am dealing with '11 year old children trying to write their >> first, third and tenth python programs'. For the life of me >> I cannot see how convenience for the sort of person who has a >> legitimate reason to shadow the syslib should get a higher priority >> over these mites who are doing their damndest to write python >> despite natural language barriers and the fact that their peers >> and parents think they are nuts to want to do so. > >That's actually a very good point, and I agree totally. To my mind, >the point about "consenting adults" (and when I referred to that I was >anticipating others using that argument, not proposing it myself) is >that we don't *prevent* people from doing weird and wonderful things. >But conversely, it's not a reason for making it *easy* to do such >things. Quite the opposite - a "consenting adult" should be assumed to >be capable of writing an import hook, or manipulating sys.path, or >whatever. > >Paul Hmmm, I think the set of 'consenting adults who cannot write an import hook' is rather large. But all I am asking for is a warning -- and it would be good if Idle noticed the warning and before it fell over dead with its message of firewalls it would mention the warning again, as a problem to look for. It will bugger up doctests for people who legitimately shadow the stdlib and now get a new warning. Anybody else be seriously inconvenienced if we do this? I cannot think of any, but then legitimately shadowing the stdlib in not on the list of things I have done. Perhaps Dstufft has ideas on this line. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen
In a message of Thu, 29 Oct 2015 18:27:59 +, Paul Moore writes: >The idle issues seem to me to demonstrate that shadowing the stdlib is >a bad idea. Of course, consenting adults, and if you override you're >responsible for correctly replacing the functionality, and all that, >but honestly, I don't think it needs to be *easy* to shadow the stdlib >- there's nothing wrong with it being an "advanced" technique that >people have to understand in order to use. I am actually sick of the 'consenting adults' argument. I am dealing with '11 year old children trying to write their first, third and tenth python programs'. For the life of me I cannot see how convenience for the sort of person who has a legitimate reason to shadow the syslib should get a higher priority over these mites who are doing their damndest to write python despite natural language barriers and the fact that their peers and parents think they are nuts to want to do so. (a grumpy comment from a teacher at a Swedish 'coding for kids' club. Disregard if too grumpy.) Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen
see the following:
lac@smartwheels:~/junk$ echo "print ('hello there')" >string.py
lac@smartwheels:~/junk$ idle-python3.5
hello there
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
File "/usr/lib/python3.5/idlelib/run.py", line 10, in
from idlelib import CallTips
File "/usr/lib/python3.5/idlelib/CallTips.py", line 16, in
from idlelib.HyperParser import HyperParser
File "/usr/lib/python3.5/idlelib/HyperParser.py", line 14, in
_ASCII_ID_CHARS = frozenset(string.ascii_letters + string.digits + "_")
AttributeError: module 'string' has no attribute 'ascii_letters'
IDLE then produces a popup that says:
IDLE's subprocess didn't make connection. Either IDLE can't stat a subprocess
por personal firewall software is blocking the connection.
I think that life would be a whole lot easier for people if instead we got
a message:
Warning: local file /u/lac/junk/string.py shadows module named string in the
Standard Library
I think that it is python exec that would have to do this -- though of
course the popup could also warn about shadowing in general, instead of
sending people on wild goose chases over their firewalls.
Would this be hard to do?
Laura
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Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 484 -- proposal to allow @overload in non-stub files
All these overloads makes the code hard to read. The whole idea of 'i have to know which decorator got called before the other one' is a smell that you have too many decorators. This whole idea reeks 'i can be very, very clever here'. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0484 - the Numeric Tower
In a message of Wed, 14 Oct 2015 23:49:33 +0100, Oscar Benjamin writes: >I'm sure the bokeh developers will be aware of the different ways that >their library is used (at this level). If the input spec is "sequence of >coercible to float" then I agree that they should use type annotations to >match that rather than putting float and I imagine they would welcome your >PR. > >Guido's suggestion is not general enough for that though: what about >Fraction, mpf, gmpy, numpy, sympy, h5py etc? The ABCs in the numeric tower >are unused by 3rd party types making them useless for abstract type >inference (IMO). AFAIK the lowest common denominator among number types in >Python is the __float__ special method. Does mypy have a way to require (a >sequence of) that? Thank you Oscar, and Chris Barker, and Guido for improving my thoughts on this matter. I go to bed now, pondering the idea that for me, internally, a new way to do type annotation 'to-x-or-is-coercible-to-x' seems a decent-enough idea. Seems a betrayal of earlier principles. Perhaps when I wake up I will feel differently. Off to dream about 'the meaning of type annotation' then. :) Thank you. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0484 - the Numeric Tower
I forgot something. In a message of Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:21:30 -, Oscar Benjamin writes: >The point of static type checking is to detect precisely these kinds of >errors. Yes, but what I expect the type annotations to be used for, especially in the SciPy world, is to make things easier for Numba to generate fast code. I really hope that the SciPy world is not going to go nuts for useless annotations, but I have, alas, all too many years dealing with people whose desire to have faster code vastly outstrips their ability to understand just what is possible in that regard. In James Barrie's novel, Peter Pan, earthly children are given the ability to fly by having Fairy Dust (supplied by the unwilling Tinkerbell) sprinkled over them. I now know that what a large number of people who want faster code, really want is magic Fairy Dust. They wanted psyco to be it, they wanted pypy to be it, and now they want Numba to be it. The notion that sprinkling type annotations all over their code will make it fly _absolutely deeply resonates_ with how these people wish the world worked. They will believe that type annotations are magic fairy dust until they are forced to confront the fact poorly written code can not be made fly until it is rewritten. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0484 - the Numeric Tower
In a message of Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:21:30 -, Oscar Benjamin writes: >Generally if it's possible to interchange floats and decimals in your code >then there's probably no need for decimals in the first place. Yes, but, at least around here the common case is that you already _have_ a pile of decimals (extracted from your leger) and now you want to do something with them (like graph them and make reports out of the graphs) with other people's graphing and report generating software. >If mypy >requires you to do an explicit conversion to float then there may be some >seld-documenting merit in showing that conversion up front rather than >assuming that it's okay to insert decimals where they're not expected. The >point of static type checking is to detect precisely these kinds of errors. The thing is that there is a very big split between code written as 'this is a float using function and decimal users very much have to avoid using it' and 'this thing works perfectly well for floats and decimals'. That code writers in the scientific python world mostly never think of Decimal users, doesn't mean they don't end up writing perfectly wonderful tools and libraries we use. :) thankfully :) I was looking for a way for the Python type hinting to be expressive enough to handle this common (at least in my world) case. So then, even if the bokeh developers (just to pick some friends) forget about me in their type annotations, I can just make a pull request, send it back with some corrected annotations and the note 'remember me!' :) >Oscar Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0484 - the Numeric Tower
In a message of Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:38:43 -0700, Guido van Rossum writes:
>Perhaps you could solve this with type variables. Here's a little
>demonstration program:
>```
>from decimal import Decimal
>from typing import TypeVar
>F = TypeVar('F', float, Decimal)
>def add(a: F, b: F) -> F:
>return a+b
>print(add(4.2, 3.14))
>print(add(Decimal('4.2'), Decimal('3.14')))
>print(add(Decimal('4.2'), 3.14))
>```
>Note that the last line is invalid. mypy correctly finds this:
>```
>flt.py:8: error: Type argument 1 of "add" has incompatible value "object"
>```
>(We could work on the error message.)
>
>Now, I'm not sure that this is the best solution given the audience -- but
>the type variable 'F' only needs to be defined once, so this might actually
>work.
>
>--
>--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
This looks good to me. I wonder if there is anything we can do,
documentation and PEP wise to encourage people who write code
to use it, rather than just using float?
Laura
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Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0484 - the Numeric Tower
In a message of Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:44:40 +0200, "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: >I can only underline this. Conversion to decimals or fractions should >not be implicit. People needing these types will know when they need >them and apply the required explicit conversions to fit their use case. > >E.g. in accounting you'll likely use decimal, in finance and science >you stick to floats. > >>From a theoretical point of view, it would make sense to add coercion >to these types, but not from a practical point of view. > >-- >Marc-Andre Lemburg >eGenix.com Actually, people in Finance tend to use both. (Often while being completely unaware of what they are doing, too.) And these days anybody who is using Decimal for Money (which ought to be everybody, but again, lots of people don't know what they are doing) still wants to grab the SciPy stack so they can use pandas to analyse the data, and matplotlib to graph it, and bokeh to turn the results into a all-singing and dancing interactive graph. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0484 - the Numeric Tower
In a message of Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:38:07 -0700, Raymond Hettinger writes:
>
>
>> On Oct 13, 2015, at 4:21 AM, Laura Creighton wrote:
>>
>> Any chance of adding Decimal to the list of things that are also
>> acceptable for things annotated float?
>
>>From Lib/numbers.py:
>
>## Notes on Decimal
>##
>## Decimal has all of the methods specified by the Real abc, but it should
>## not be registered as a Real because decimals do not interoperate with
>## binary floats (i.e. Decimal('3.14') + 2.71828 is undefined). But,
>## abstract reals are expected to interoperate (i.e. R1 + R2 should be
>## expected to work if R1 and R2 are both Reals).
>
>That is still true:
>
>Python 3.5.0 (v3.5.0:374f501f4567, Sep 12 2015, 11:00:19)
>[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>>> from decimal import Decimal
>>>> Decimal('3.14') + 2.71828
>Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 1, in
>Decimal('3.14') + 2.71828
>TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'decimal.Decimal' and 'float'
>
>
>Raymond Hettinger
I take it that is a 'no'. I merely worry about what hapens if people
start relying upon the fact that a float annotation 'will handle all
the numbers I care about' to the forgotten Decimal users such as
myself.
Laura
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[Python-Dev] PEP 0484 - the Numeric Tower
Any chance of adding Decimal to the list of things that are also acceptable for things annotated float? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] congrats on 3.5! Alas, windows 7 users are having problems installing it
In a message of Wed, 16 Sep 2015 16:56:54 -, Brett Cannon writes: >I don't see any issue opened about Windows 7 installation issues, so if >someone who has had the issue can thus can help Steve diagnose the problem >that would be great (Steve is also currently on vacation so having this all >in a bug that he can read when he gets back would also help). >> Same here. I get a "0x80240017 error" during installation. Wearing my webmaster hat I talked to somebody who had this error with their windows 8.1 install. They wrote back that they had found this on the net and following the sequence of things to do called 'Method 1'in http://wind8apps.com/error-0x80240017-windows/ fixed things for them. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] congrats on 3.5! Alas, windows 7 users are having problems installing it
webmaster has already heard from 4 people who cannot install it. I sent them to the bug tracker or to python-list but they seem not to have gone either place. Is there some guide I should be sending them to, 'how to debug installation problems'? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 495 Was: PEP 498: Literal String Interpolation is ready for pronouncement
In a message of Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:49:12 -0400, Terry Reedy writes: >and, if we are stuck with <-intransitivity, what do we do? If >back-compatibility allowed, I might suggest defining 'lt' or 'less' >rather than '__lt__' so that sort and bisect don't work with DateTimes. >Then document that the function is not transitive. I think it would be better to document what you are supposed to do if you have a list of DateTimes and want to sort them, as a way to get a list of times sorted from the earliest to the latest. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] easy_install ?
In a message of Tue, 24 Feb 2015 16:44:20 +, Paul Moore writes: >On 24 February 2015 at 16:30, Brett Cannon wrote: >> Tell people to use pip. Having ensurepip in Python 2.7 and 3.4 makes it as >> official as anything will be as the recommended tool to install projects. >> Otherwise easy_install has nothing to do directly with python-dev so I don't >> think we can comment on a group as to what people should do in terms of >> bugs, etc. > >Bug reports would go to the setuptools project, but I agree, "use pip" >is a better suggestion. And if pip won't work, it would be good to >know why. > >Paul I want to recommend that people not use easy_install. This has been my personal preferred solution for many years now. But I did not want to say such a thing if there was a known use case, one that I never have, that made easy_install better. Ok. will go back to my personal integrity which matches what python-dev recommends. Thank you for answering. Laura (answering questions in python-list and as webmaster) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] easy_install ?
Hello all, I wonder what the status of easy_install is. I keep finding people who needed to install something 'path.py' is the latest, who needed to use pip, and couldn't get easy_install to work. Should we tell people that easy_install is deprecated, or ask them to file bugs when they could not get it to work, or ... Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] installing python 2.7.9 on a Mac
webmaster just got mail from a novice who is trying to learn Python in an introductory class. She got a "The version of Tcl/Tk (8.5.7) in use may be unstable" message. I think that the download page should have a link. If you get download and install . Any reason we cannot do that? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] multibytecodex
This just in from pypy-dev. I am reposting it here because I am fairly certain that nobody on the pypy-dev mailing list uses the multibytecodex, but there has got to be at least one person here who does. Please reply to the pypy-dev article, not here, or mail to pypy-...@python.org if you are not on the pypy-dev mailing list (but have delivery turned off as many of you do.) Thank you, Laura --- Forwarded Message From: Armin Rigo Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 21:39:35 +0200 To: pypy-...@python.org Subject: [pypy-dev] multibytecodec: missing features Hi all, Here are the missing features in multibytecodec: * support for ``errors !=3D "strict"''. * classes MultibyteIncrementalEncoder, MultibyteIncrementalDecoder, MultibyteStreamReader and MultibyteStreamWriter. One reason I didn't implement the classes yet is that I couldn't understand two points in how they are supposed to work. But it seems that there are really two bugs, as I've been pointed to: http://bugs.python.org/issue12100 and http://bugs.python.org/issue12171 . So the question is if we should be bug-compatible with Python 2.7 or if we should instead implement some fixed version. I suppose I'm rather for the fixed version, but I'd like to hear some feedback from people that actually use multibytecodecs. Also, I wouldn't mind if someone would pick up the work and just do it, either the classes or ``errors !=3D "strict"'' :-) A bient=F4t, Armin. ___ pypy-dev mailing list pypy-...@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev --- End of Forwarded Message ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] how do you find out what version of Python a PEP landed in?
Politely ask them to add it. (just my suggrestion). Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] python and super
I think that if you add this, people will start relying on it. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 396, Module Version Numbers
In a message of Tue, 12 Apr 2011 15:56:32 EDT, Barry Warsaw writes: >The Deriving section of the PEP is not the most important part of it, and > is >not making specific recommendations. If it's not clear that it's only >providing examples, or it's distracting, then maybe it's better off being >removed, cut down or rewritten. To me, at any rate, it read as a pretty important part. But the version I just read from http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/ still has the re in it as well. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Decisions about workflow
In a message of Sat, 02 Apr 2011 12:56:13 CDT, s...@pobox.com writes: > >Laura> Sphinx lets you embed graphviz. >Laura> http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ext/graphviz.html?highlight=image > >Cool, thanks. I'm going to try to reproduce Nick's setup as he described >it. That would certainly be a whole lot easy for me to understand, >hopefully for others as well. > >Skip *DEFINITELY* for me too! Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Decisions about workflow
In a message of Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:36:01 CDT, s...@pobox.com writes: >>> =A0 =A0Antoine> Take a look at: >>> =A0 =A0Antoine> http://docs.python.org/devguide/committing.html >>> = > >>> What form should directed graphs be in for inclusion? > >anatoly> Pictures. > >anatoly> But so far I haven't seen any Graphviz-like tools in pure Py >th= >on. >anatoly> http://code.google.com/p/rainforce/issues/detail?id=3D4 > >Yeah, I sort of figured that. :-) I meant JPEG? PNG? ASCII art? Some so >rt >of graph notation (like Graphviz)? MoinMoin .draw notation? Does ReST >support any sort of embedded images or diagrams? > >Skip Sphinx lets you embed graphviz. http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ext/graphviz.html?highlight=image Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Security implications of pep 383
In a message of Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:23:25 BST, Michael Foord writes: >Hey all, > >Not sure how real the security risk is here: > > http://blog.omega-prime.co.uk/?p=107 > >Basically he is saying that if you store a list of blacklisted files >with names encoded in big-5 (or some other non-utf8 compatible encoding) >if those names are passed at the command line, or otherwise read in and >decoded from an assumed-utf8 source with surrogate escaping, the >surrogate escape decoded names will not match the properly decoded >blacklisted names. >All the best, > >Michael Foord > I am not sure there are any security related gotchas here. All he is saying is that if you decode the same bytestring using two different encodings, you will get two different unicode strings (which therefore will compare unequal). Where's the problem, except in that you might have unrealistic expectations? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python Core Mentorship program
In a message of Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:46:27 +1100, Ben Finney writes: > The audience of the proposed forum (AFAICT) is people who want to learn > enough to contribute to the Python core. So, no, they're different > roles. The other side of the proposed forum is people who want to teach such people. Many of them (and no doubt many of the learners) don't read python-list due to its high volume. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python Core Mentorship program
In a message of Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:14:02 -0400, Jesse Noller writes: >Ben, > >In principle I agree with you - I would like open archives for the >specific reasons you cite, but I value the ability for people who may >not be comfortable with coming out and openly discussing things on a >list if they know it's open to the magical powers of google and public >archives. Heck, having open archives makes it *easier to find out* >about the list itself, serving the purpose even more. > >But - weighed in favor of the target audience (those that may not yet >be comfortable with "full disclosure", or discussing personality >clashes on the tracker, or those worried about future employers >digging up stuff) - I want to error on the side of the closed list >archives for now. In several months, we all might realize it was a >monumental mistake. At that time, we can fix the problem. I would have thought that the set of people who were more comfortable with the closed list was prettry close to zero. Because the problem with saying something stupid in public is really not one of perfect strangers using google to find out that I said something stupid once, but rather that current members of the target group, in this case the subscribers to python-dev or python-dev-mentors will find out that I think stupid thoughts _now_, and think less of me for it, and maybe say some nasty things about me. Python-dev historically has been rather special. The forbidding message "Do not post general Python questions to this list. For help with Python please see the Python help page." in a red boarded box is fairly effective at getting the message "do not waste the valuable time of these people" across. For a while, I remember, we lied and said that subscriptions to python-dev needed to be approved, even when they didn't. That seemed to deter some people from even trying to join, which was probably either a good thing, or a bad thing on the whole (but, of course, we have no way to measure). And the other thing that makes python-dev unusual is that it is casually read by a large number of people who never say a word. All open mailing lists have lurkers, especially those who read them without a subscription, through some other means, but python-dev is unsual in the number of people who try to read it 'just in case something important happens', and 'just to feel like they know what is going on in the python community'. All of these factors add to the 'don't waste people's time' factor. Thus there is a lot to be said about having a separate group, where python-dev contributors answer questions that they have made time for, even if others might consider them a waste of time. Because those others are not forced to subscribe and read them. But I don't see such a compelling reason for a closed group. It's not as if we expect that mentoring to be a source of deeply personal stories and anecdotes. Or that people want the safety to discuss heretical approaches to changing CPython not expected to go down well with python-dev. It all seems to boil down to 'some people would be more comfortable this way'. I'd like to get some metrics on how many of those people there are. And I'd like to measure them against a different group, people like me who won't contribute to a closed group, in part because the whole closed-ness of it makes me undomfortable. My experience with closed-groups vs open groups has been almost entirely negative, which would be reason enough for me to hesitate to join one, but especially when it comes to a _mentoring_ list. The single most important reason why I would post something I think might be really stupid is because 'if I don't understand this, then there are probably others out there like me in the same boat'. So I ask such things with the hope that the exchange will be googled _a whole lot_ in the future. And again, when I answer a question fully and completely, I do so thinking 'I'll bet a lot of people, and not this one soul, will be interested in this'. If the answer will only be seen by the comparatively few people in a closed mailing list, I am comparatively unmotivated to write anything, or write anything substantial. I've seen a whole lot of very bad behaviour on the part of self-styled leaders of closed mailing lists. They determine the party-line of the group and then, because it is private, blast those souls who do not conform with impunity. Having been on the receiving end of a number of such exchanges, my conclusion has been that having the whole thing open is often the only defence one has. Firstly, most people are more restrained when what they say can be seen by the world at large, so some of these incidents would not happen. But secondly, the ability to share the mail with others greatly empowers the people on the receiving end. But if you cannot get an outside opinion because doing so would violate the group's closed-ness, then you are more vulnerable. The point of bringing this up is
[Python-Dev] About raising NotPortableWarning for CPython specific code
For those of you not at the Language Summit at PyCON the day before yesterday, there was talk of identifying non-portable behaviour, such as relying on CPython's reference counting garbage collector to close files for you as soon as they become unreachable. And then warning about them. We have a real live user who has a large code base that relies on the CPython behaviour that an object's __radd__ method will take precedence over a list's inplace add behaviour. The thread with the whole gory details begins here: http://codespeak.net/pipermail/pypy-dev/2011q1/006958.html My inclination is to declare code that relies on this as broken, rather than patch every wretched container type in PyPy. Can this become blessed as a 'you shouldn't have done this'? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Doc-SIG] that library reference, again
In a message of Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:41:50 +1000, Nick Coghlan writes: >Ian Bicking wrote: >> Anyway, another even more expedient option would be setting up a >> separate bug tracker (something simpler to submit to than SF) and >> putting a link on the bottom of every page, maybe like: >> http://trac.python.org/trac/newticket?summary=re:+/path/to/doc&componen >t=docs >> -- heck, we all know SF bug tracking sucks, this is a good chance to >> experiment with a different tracker, and documentation has softer >> requirements other parts of Python. > >While I quite like this idea, would it make it more difficult when the bu >g >tracking for the main source code is eventually migrated off SF? And what > >would happen to existing documentation bug reports/patches on the SF trac >kers? > >Is it possible to do something similar for the online version of the curr >ent >docs, simply pointing them at the SF tracker? (I know this doesn't help p >eople >without an SF account. . .) > >Cheers, >Nick. Not if the problem is that documentation changes are not 'patches' and 'bugs' and the sourceforge bug tracker, which isn't even particularly good at tracking bugs is particularly ill-suited for the collaborative sharing of documents. Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Doc-SIG] status of development documentation
Whenever people have demanded that I write documentation in html I have always done this: all my documentation, as output from a text editor. All subsequent formatting to be done by somebody else who doesn't find dealing with html as excruciatingly painful as I do. I suspect there are lots of people who have concluded that this is all the html that you really need. The question is, are you willing to put up with documentation like this from people? Laura ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
