Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Shorya Raj]

Also, have you considered using Travis? It would allow us to add to the
configurations, at least generally...


On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:

> On 4 September 2014 11:07, Antonio Cavallo 
> wrote:
> > I wonder if there is any interest in starting to use the opensuse build
> > servers for continuous build and testing on redhat, fedora suse and (I
> > think) debian: that will solve once for all the maintenance issues on
> those
> > platforms (and provide a reliable build).
>
> It sounds like a good idea in principle, but I suspect there would be
> a lot of devils in those details. That doesn't make it a bad idea,
> just something that would need a volunteer to investigate further
> before we could form a real opinion.
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Shorya Raj]

>
> The limiting factor is generally time - various aspects of the current
> system are clumsy, but they work, so unless someone is particularly
> keen and willing to work through all the factors that led to the
> current setup and propose changes (including at least a rough concept
> of how ongoing maintenance will work), the status quo wins by default.


If you could outline some of these, I would be willing to have a look at
what I could do.


On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:

> On 4 September 2014 15:45, Shorya Raj  wrote:
> > Also, have you considered using Travis? It would allow us to add to the
> > configurations, at least generally...
>
> Many SaaS solution assume the use of specific centralised identity
> providers, which isn't a function we're prepared to outsource (we know
> we need to fix our current proliferation of identity silos, but that's
> a big project and there are other tasks ahead of it on the todo list
> for the existing infrastructure team).
>
> The limiting factor is generally time - various aspects of the current
> system are clumsy, but they work, so unless someone is particularly
> keen and willing to work through all the factors that led to the
> current setup and propose changes (including at least a rough concept
> of how ongoing maintenance will work), the status quo wins by default.
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Shorya Raj]

And so what would need to be done to rectify this problem? If there are no
objections, I would like to resolve this particular point, at least until
better people can be found to do so.


On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 8:50 PM, A. Cavallo  wrote:

> Yes there are "details" indeed. But not show stoppers. A prototype can be
> seen here: http://cclimited.webfactional.com
> The nice bit is testing will be executed in a total fresh instance, an
> added bonus
>
> On 4 September 2014 05:16:01 GMT+01:00, Nick Coghlan 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 4 September 2014 11:07, Antonio Cavallo  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  I wonder if there is any interest in starting to use the opensuse build
>>>  servers for continuous build and testing on redhat, fedora suse and (I
>>>  think) debian: that will solve once for all the maintenance issues on those
>>>
>>>  platforms (and provide a reliable build).
>>>
>>
>> It sounds like a good idea in principle, but I suspect there would be
>> a lot of devils in those details. That doesn't make it a bad idea,
>> just something that would need a volunteer to investigate further
>>
>> before we could form a real opinion.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Antonio Cavallo]

Setting up a repo with the code and cleaning a bit here and there.
Over the weekend I can put something useable.



Nick Coghlan wrote:

On 4 September 2014 18:50, A. Cavallo  wrote:

Yes there are "details" indeed. But not show stoppers. A prototype can be
seen here: http://cclimited.webfactional.com
The nice bit is testing will be executed in a total fresh instance, an added
bonus


Oh, very nice!

What is needed to get that up and running?

Regards,
Nick.


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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Antonio Cavallo]

Ok,

I've put everything under the tools directory of the build server for 
the project home:cavallo71:opt-python-interpreters:


https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:cavallo71:opt-python-interpreters/tools

To get started you need using the osc client (it uses the same 
subversion syntax, so is very simple):


   $> osc co home:cavallo71:opt-python-interpreters
   $> make -f tools/Makefile update (for the 2.7 branch)
   $> make -f tools/Makefile BRANCH=3 update (for the 3.x branch, I
   haven't fixed few issue with the build)

I don't think you'd bee able to use as it is because is still linked to 
my account (few hardcoded paths). But I can help in bootstrapping it if 
there's a general consensus on that (maybe having the python project 
official release build on susebuild?).


Then there's the testing bit (it's separate from the python binaries 
build to insulate the two). It's very similar and I'll post more details 
when ready.


I hope this helps,
Thnaks



Antonio Cavallo wrote:

Setting up a repo with the code and cleaning a bit here and there.
Over the weekend I can put something useable.



Nick Coghlan wrote:

On 4 September 2014 18:50, A. Cavallo wrote:

Yes there are "details" indeed. But not show stoppers. A prototype
can be
seen here: http://cclimited.webfactional.com
The nice bit is testing will be executed in a total fresh instance,
an added
bonus


Oh, very nice!

What is needed to get that up and running?

Regards,
Nick.


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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Nick Coghlan]

On 8 Sep 2014 04:51, "Antonio Cavallo"  wrote:
>
> Ok,
>
> I've put everything under the tools directory of the build server for the
project home:cavallo71:opt-python-interpreters:
>
>
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:cavallo71:opt-python-interpreters/tools
>
> To get started you need using the osc client (it uses the same subversion
syntax, so is very simple):
>
>$> osc co home:cavallo71:opt-python-interpreters
>$> make -f tools/Makefile update (for the 2.7 branch)
>$> make -f tools/Makefile BRANCH=3 update (for the 3.x branch, I
>haven't fixed few issue with the build)

Thanks for posting this!

> I don't think you'd bee able to use as it is because is still linked to
my account (few hardcoded paths). But I can help in bootstrapping it if
there's a general consensus on that (maybe having the python project
official release build on susebuild?).

Integration into the release process will be up to the current release
managers (Larry Hastings for 3.4/3.5 and Benjamin Peterson for 2.7). That
may be worthwhile as a distro independent way of publishing "opt builds" of
Python for Linux platforms (I'd suggest using the softwarecollections.org
convention and put them under "/opt/psf/pythonXY").

Note that I think it's worth pursuing this as an integration testing tool,
regardless of whether or not we end up incorporating it into the release
process.

> Then there's the testing bit (it's separate from the python binaries
build to insulate the two). It's very similar and I'll post more details
when ready.

Thanks again!

Regards,
Nick.

>
> I hope this helps,
> Thnaks
>
>
>
> Antonio Cavallo wrote:
>>
>> Setting up a repo with the code and cleaning a bit here and there.
>> Over the weekend I can put something useable.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>>
>>> On 4 September 2014 18:50, A. Cavallo wrote:

 Yes there are "details" indeed. But not show stoppers. A prototype
 can be
 seen here: http://cclimited.webfactional.com
 The nice bit is testing will be executed in a total fresh instance,
 an added
 bonus
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, very nice!
>>>
>>> What is needed to get that up and running?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nick.
>>>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Gregory P. Smith]

On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Victor Stinner 
wrote:

>
> > ARMv7 3.x: "Read-only file system", Mercurial fails...
>
> I sent an email to Gregory P. Smith (owner).
>

For mine, its a case of me not having any monitoring for it. Sending me an
email worked.

In this case the SSD (a very fast usb3 memory stick) died after 9 months of
use. Not a surprise. I brought it back up on the internal flash for the
time being. I am in the process of setting up a new system (nvidia jetson
tk1) to replace this one that will be 1.5-3x faster depending on how you
measure it.

Monitoring idea for buildbots: If builders for all non-custom branches on a
buildbot are failing for more than some period of time or number of builds
each in a row, that is likely a sign of broken infrastructure or a common
platform specific code change that needs to be made.

anyone want to implement that?

-gps
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Jesus Cea]

On 03/09/14 02:37, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

> I'm not sure that's an answer to the problem. What we need is not more
> machines, but dedicated buildbot maintainers.

I would love to get an email if my buildbots are consistently RED for a
few hours.

In the past Antoine, Victor and others pinged me about issues in my
buildbots (OpenIndiana). I feel shame and I think it is not very
productive either.

If red state in the buildbots were really trustable, the committer of
that changelog should be bugged too. Since we have quite a few false
positives, that would be probably annoying and no productive. Decreasing
false positives should be a priority.

In my case another issue is that my buildbots are hosted as a Solaris
ZONE inside a OpenIndiana development machine I don't manage. Their own
usage varies and can impact buildbots resource limits like memory, swap
space, etc.

Thanks for your patience and for notifying me issues when you suffer them.

-- 
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j...@jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/ _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Chris Angelico]

On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 2:45 AM, Jesus Cea  wrote:
> On 03/09/14 02:37, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure that's an answer to the problem. What we need is not more
>> machines, but dedicated buildbot maintainers.
>
> I would love to get an email if my buildbots are consistently RED for a
> few hours.
>
> In the past Antoine, Victor and others pinged me about issues in my
> buildbots (OpenIndiana). I feel shame and I think it is not very
> productive either.

Likewise. In the earliest days of my buildbots, I kept a very close
eye on them (which was good; they had some occasional network
glitches, which I had to resolve), but once they became stable, I
stopped watching. Now, I almost never check them - as long as the VM's
running, I basically assume all's well. It'd be very helpful if a
computer could auto-email any time they're down for any length of
time. Is the info available in some way? Could I write a little
monitor at my end that asks every hour if my buildbots can be seen?

ChrisA
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Jesus Cea]

On 10/10/14 17:56, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Could I write a little
> monitor at my end that asks every hour if my buildbots can be seen?

AFAIK maintainers already get an email if the buildbot vanishes long
enough. I am more interested in getting an email when my buildbot is
consistently red because somebody committed something it doesn't like
two months ago...

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Jesus Cea]

On 10/10/14 17:45, Jesus Cea wrote:
> Thanks for your patience and for notifying me issues when you suffer them.

Another issue is changes that actually breaks buildbots and I don't
actually know where to start debugging. For instance, currently:



"""
==
FAIL: test_init (test.test_readline.TestReadline)
--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"/export/home/buildbot/32bits/2.7.cea-indiana-x86/build/Lib/test/test_readline.py",
line 52, in test_init
self.assertEqual(stdout, b'')
AssertionError: '\x1b[?1034h' != ''
"""

No idea what to do now, beside forcing bisection builds and blaming
somebody else :).

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Benjamin Peterson]

It's https://bugs.python.org/issue19884

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014, at 12:08, R. David Murray wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:00:06 +0200, Jesus Cea  wrote:
> > On 10/10/14 17:56, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > > Could I write a little
> > > monitor at my end that asks every hour if my buildbots can be seen?
> > 
> > AFAIK maintainers already get an email if the buildbot vanishes long
> > enough. I am more interested in getting an email when my buildbot is
> > consistently red because somebody committed something it doesn't like
> > two months ago...
> 
> I think they are supposed to, but I've never gotten one, not even when
> my gentoo buildbots suffered a hardware failure.  A month or so later
> Antoine emailed me, and I told him to remove them at least for now,
> since I don't currently have replacement hardware.  (I'm hoping to fix
> that, but I have to find the time...)
> 
> That said, there has never as far as I know been an active hook to email
> the maintainer when the buildbot is red.  I don't know if buildbot
> supports that or not, so that would be the first thing to check.
> 
> --David
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[R. David Murray]

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:00:06 +0200, Jesus Cea  wrote:
> On 10/10/14 17:56, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > Could I write a little
> > monitor at my end that asks every hour if my buildbots can be seen?
> 
> AFAIK maintainers already get an email if the buildbot vanishes long
> enough. I am more interested in getting an email when my buildbot is
> consistently red because somebody committed something it doesn't like
> two months ago...

I think they are supposed to, but I've never gotten one, not even when
my gentoo buildbots suffered a hardware failure.  A month or so later
Antoine emailed me, and I told him to remove them at least for now,
since I don't currently have replacement hardware.  (I'm hoping to fix
that, but I have to find the time...)

That said, there has never as far as I know been an active hook to email
the maintainer when the buildbot is red.  I don't know if buildbot
supports that or not, so that would be the first thing to check.

--David
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:08:54 -0400
"R. David Murray"  wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:00:06 +0200, Jesus Cea  wrote:
> > On 10/10/14 17:56, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > > Could I write a little
> > > monitor at my end that asks every hour if my buildbots can be seen?
> > 
> > AFAIK maintainers already get an email if the buildbot vanishes long
> > enough. I am more interested in getting an email when my buildbot is
> > consistently red because somebody committed something it doesn't like
> > two months ago...
> 
> I think they are supposed to, but I've never gotten one, not even when
> my gentoo buildbots suffered a hardware failure.

As far as I remember it's a relaying problem on the SMTP server.
Perhaps Benjamin can confirm.

> That said, there has never as far as I know been an active hook to email
> the maintainer when the buildbot is red.  I don't know if buildbot
> supports that or not, so that would be the first thing to check.

I don't know if it would support e-mailing the maintainer rather than
whoever committed the last changes.
Besides, I'm afraid our test suite isn't stable enough for such e-mail
notifications to be bearable...

Regards

Antoine.


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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Nick Coghlan]

On 3 Sep 2014 08:15, "Victor Stinner"  wrote:
>
> x86 RHEL 6 3.x: TestReadline.test_init() fails, issue #19884. I don't
> have to this platform, I don't know how to fix it.

Sorry, I haven't been a very good maintainer for that buildbot (the main
reason it never graduated to the "stable" list). If you send me your public
SSH key, I can add it (I think - if not, I can ask Luke to do it).
Alternatively, CentOS 6 may exhibit the same problem.

>From a completely different perspective, does anyone have experience with
using BuildBot with OpenStack hosted clients? We may be able to take
advantage of the PSF's new(ish) Rackspace infrastructure to provide more
stable test VMs.

Cheers,
Nick.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Brian Curtin]

On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:

>
> On 3 Sep 2014 08:15, "Victor Stinner"  wrote:
> >
> > x86 RHEL 6 3.x: TestReadline.test_init() fails, issue #19884. I don't
> > have to this platform, I don't know how to fix it.
>
> Sorry, I haven't been a very good maintainer for that buildbot (the main
> reason it never graduated to the "stable" list). If you send me your public
> SSH key, I can add it (I think - if not, I can ask Luke to do it).
> Alternatively, CentOS 6 may exhibit the same problem.
>
> From a completely different perspective, does anyone have experience with
> using BuildBot with OpenStack hosted clients? We may be able to take
> advantage of the PSF's new(ish) Rackspace infrastructure to provide more
> stable test VMs.
>
Is this a Buildbot feature (as in Buildbot master spins up VMs fresh for a
test run, or something), or do you just want to spin up a bunch of VMs,
give access, and we configure them the same as we do today?
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Nick Coghlan]

On 3 Sep 2014 09:00, "Brian Curtin"  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>>
>> From a completely different perspective, does anyone have experience
with using BuildBot with OpenStack hosted clients? We may be able to take
advantage of the PSF's new(ish) Rackspace infrastructure to provide more
stable test VMs.
>
> Is this a Buildbot feature (as in Buildbot master spins up VMs fresh for
a test run, or something), or do you just want to spin up a bunch of VMs,
give access, and we configure them the same as we do today?

The former would be better, but I have no idea if BuildBot supports it
natively. The latter may still help if it replaces resource constrained VMs
(and would also mean the PSF infra team could grant access for
investigations).

Cheers,
Nick.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Cameron Simpson]

On 03Sep2014 00:13, Victor Stinner  wrote:

AMD64 Snow Leop 3.x: many tests are not reliable (stable) on this
platform. For example, test_logging.test_race() sometimes fail with
PermissionError(1, "Operation not permitted:
'/tmp/test_logging-3-bjulw8iz.log'"). Another example,
test_asyncio.test_stdin_broken_pipe() sometimes fail with an assertion
error because BrokenPipeError was not raised. Do we still support this
old version of Mac OS X? Released in 2009, it is 5 years old. Is
upgrading to Maverick (10.9) free and possible on old Mac computers? I
don't have access to this old OS.


As a negative data point, my GF runs Snow Leopard by choice and will not 
upgrade that machine; we've both got Mavericks laptops and there are major 
regressions in the UI and OS behaviour (Apple UI and apps, not Python). I would 
imagine she's not alone in resisting change.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

Life IS pain, highness...  anyone who tries to tell you different is
trying to sell you something.   - Wesley, The_Princess_Bride
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 00:13:22 +0200
Victor Stinner  wrote:
> 
> AMD64 Snow Leop 3.x: many tests are not reliable (stable) on this
> platform. For example, test_logging.test_race() sometimes fail with
> PermissionError(1, "Operation not permitted:
> '/tmp/test_logging-3-bjulw8iz.log'"). Another example,
> test_asyncio.test_stdin_broken_pipe() sometimes fail with an assertion
> error because BrokenPipeError was not raised. Do we still support this
> old version of Mac OS X? Released in 2009, it is 5 years old.

5 years old is not that old. I don't know what the upgrade expectations
are on OS X, but I'm sure Python runs well on 5-yeard old Windows,
Linuces and perhaps even FreeBSDs.

Regards

Antoine.


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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 08:53:51 +1000
Nick Coghlan  wrote:
> On 3 Sep 2014 08:15, "Victor Stinner"  wrote:
> >
> > x86 RHEL 6 3.x: TestReadline.test_init() fails, issue #19884. I don't
> > have to this platform, I don't know how to fix it.
> 
> Sorry, I haven't been a very good maintainer for that buildbot (the main
> reason it never graduated to the "stable" list). If you send me your public
> SSH key, I can add it (I think - if not, I can ask Luke to do it).
> Alternatively, CentOS 6 may exhibit the same problem.
> 
> From a completely different perspective, does anyone have experience with
> using BuildBot with OpenStack hosted clients? We may be able to take
> advantage of the PSF's new(ish) Rackspace infrastructure to provide more
> stable test VMs.

I'm not sure that's an answer to the problem. What we need is not more
machines, but dedicated buildbot maintainers. That also means being
willing to diagnose issues themselves rather than kindly offer SSH
access, by the way ;-) (I can't speak for Victor, but being offered SSH
access when I point out an issue on a remote machine is really a
depressing answer to get, as far as I'm concerned)

And, we also need some people to look after the master configuration
and status - yes, that would have been me, but I've not been very
motivated recently :-)

Regards

Antoine.


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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Nick Coghlan writes:

 > Sorry, I haven't been a very good maintainer for that buildbot (the main
 > reason it never graduated to the "stable" list). If you send me your public
 > SSH key, I can add it (I think - if not, I can ask Luke to do it).
 > Alternatively, CentOS 6 may exhibit the same problem.

I wonder how many of these buildbots could be maintained by the kind
of folks who show up on core-mentorship asking "how can I help?"

Just a thought -- I wouldn't be surprised if the reaction is universal
horror and the answer is "Are you crazy?  Zero!  Z-E-R-O!!"

And of course most want to write code, not sysadm.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Chris Angelico]

On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull  wrote:
> Nick Coghlan writes:
>
>  > Sorry, I haven't been a very good maintainer for that buildbot (the main
>  > reason it never graduated to the "stable" list). If you send me your public
>  > SSH key, I can add it (I think - if not, I can ask Luke to do it).
>  > Alternatively, CentOS 6 may exhibit the same problem.
>
> I wonder how many of these buildbots could be maintained by the kind
> of folks who show up on core-mentorship asking "how can I help?"
>
> Just a thought -- I wouldn't be surprised if the reaction is universal
> horror and the answer is "Are you crazy?  Zero!  Z-E-R-O!!"
>
> And of course most want to write code, not sysadm.

Maintaining a buildbot isn't hard. (Although one thing I'm not sure
of: If my bot goes down for an extended period of time, is any sort of
automated email sent to me? I don't often check their status.) But it
does mean a measure of trust in some external entity, or else some
very careful rules (mainly firewall), which not every coder will know
about.

ChrisA
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Shorya Raj]

Hello all
I don't mind helping out with maintaining buildbots / other build machines.
Although I don't have a lot of experience with this sort of thing (I
usually just ran a Jenkins for my own work), I think it would be a useful
way to contribute. Let me know what I should do if you are all fine with
this.



Thanks
Shorya Raj


On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Chris Angelico  wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull 
> wrote:
> > Nick Coghlan writes:
> >
> >  > Sorry, I haven't been a very good maintainer for that buildbot (the
> main
> >  > reason it never graduated to the "stable" list). If you send me your
> public
> >  > SSH key, I can add it (I think - if not, I can ask Luke to do it).
> >  > Alternatively, CentOS 6 may exhibit the same problem.
> >
> > I wonder how many of these buildbots could be maintained by the kind
> > of folks who show up on core-mentorship asking "how can I help?"
> >
> > Just a thought -- I wouldn't be surprised if the reaction is universal
> > horror and the answer is "Are you crazy?  Zero!  Z-E-R-O!!"
> >
> > And of course most want to write code, not sysadm.
>
> Maintaining a buildbot isn't hard. (Although one thing I'm not sure
> of: If my bot goes down for an extended period of time, is any sort of
> automated email sent to me? I don't often check their status.) But it
> does mean a measure of trust in some external entity, or else some
> very careful rules (mainly firewall), which not every coder will know
> about.
>
> ChrisA
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Cameron Simpson]

On 03Sep2014 11:47, Stephen J. Turnbull  wrote:

Nick Coghlan writes:
> Sorry, I haven't been a very good maintainer for that buildbot (the main
> reason it never graduated to the "stable" list). If you send me your public
> SSH key, I can add it (I think - if not, I can ask Luke to do it).
> Alternatively, CentOS 6 may exhibit the same problem.

I wonder how many of these buildbots could be maintained by the kind
of folks who show up on core-mentorship asking "how can I help?"

Just a thought -- I wouldn't be surprised if the reaction is universal
horror and the answer is "Are you crazy?  Zero!  Z-E-R-O!!"

And of course most want to write code, not sysadm.


I do both. Happy to help in a small way if wanted.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

Maintainer's Motto: If we can't fix it, it ain't broke.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Christian Staffa]

Hi all

I am using buildbot now for some time and i would be willing to contribute on 
that. I had small work on openstack buildbot slave but had not the proper 
infrastructure to get more value out of it. I like that project and automation. 
Anyway, if i could be of help let me know (;
Short to my person: i am christian staffa and actually living in germany.

   Chris

Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone

 Nick Coghlan wrote 

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Shorya Raj]

As mentioned, I don't mind sysadmining a bit, if required. My primary joy
would be helping code python, but can't seem to figure out the ideal place
to start doing so. Therefore, helping out as sysadmin would be a good start.


On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Cameron Simpson  wrote:

> On 03Sep2014 11:47, Stephen J. Turnbull  wrote:
>
>> Nick Coghlan writes:
>> > Sorry, I haven't been a very good maintainer for that buildbot (the main
>> > reason it never graduated to the "stable" list). If you send me your
>> public
>> > SSH key, I can add it (I think - if not, I can ask Luke to do it).
>> > Alternatively, CentOS 6 may exhibit the same problem.
>>
>> I wonder how many of these buildbots could be maintained by the kind
>> of folks who show up on core-mentorship asking "how can I help?"
>>
>> Just a thought -- I wouldn't be surprised if the reaction is universal
>> horror and the answer is "Are you crazy?  Zero!  Z-E-R-O!!"
>>
>> And of course most want to write code, not sysadm.
>>
>
> I do both. Happy to help in a small way if wanted.
>
> Cheers,
> Cameron Simpson 
>
> Maintainer's Motto: If we can't fix it, it ain't broke.
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[francis]

[...] But it

does mean a measure of trust in some external entity, or else some
very careful rules (mainly firewall), which not every coder will know
about.


Just curious, is there a way to mount the infrastructure the oder way 
around? One sets a system polling for sources changes, if so it starts

a build an sends per e-mail the results to some address.

Thanks in advance!
francis


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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Victor Stinner]

2014-09-03 0:13 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner :
> AMD64 OpenIndiana 3.x: a lot of tests fail with OSError(12, "Not
> enough space") or MemoryError. It's probably on issue on the host.
>
> x86 OpenIndiana 3.x: MemoryError. TestReadline.test_init() also fails.

I sent an email to Jesus Cea (owner of these buildbots).

> x86 RHEL 6 3.x: TestReadline.test_init() fails, issue #19884. I don't
> have to this platform, I don't know how to fix it.

I sent my SSH key to Nick (owner).

> x86 Windows Server 2003 [SB] 3.x: test_build_ext() of test_distutils
> hangs during 1 hang before being killed, it hangs something in the C
> compiler.

I sent an email to the mailing list of the snakebite network.

> x86 XP-4 3.x: test_distutils fails because Visual Studio linker
> (link.exe) fails with the error 1181 (cannot open input file).
> test_capi.test_forced_io_encoding() fails with an assertion error
> because sys.__stdin__ is None.

I sent an email to David Bolen (owner).

> ARMv7 3.x: "Read-only file system", Mercurial fails...

I sent an email to Gregory P. Smith (owner).

> x86 FreeBSD 7.2 3.x: test_io.test_interrupted_write_text() hangs.

I skipped the test on FreeBSD 7.2 (even if the test pass on FreeBSD 6.4):
http://bugs.python.org/issue22331

> x86 FreeBSD 6.4 3.x: (...) test_multiprocessing_spawn fails whereas the
> test should be skipped.

I skipped the test on FreeBSD 6.4:
http://bugs.python.org/issue22332

Victor
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Chris Angelico]

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:32 AM, francis  wrote:
>> does mean a measure of trust in some external entity, or else some
>> very careful rules (mainly firewall), which not every coder will know
>> about.
>
>
> Just curious, is there a way to mount the infrastructure the oder way
> around? One sets a system polling for sources changes, if so it starts
> a build an sends per e-mail the results to some address.

I'm more talking about how there's a (virtual) machine that I run,
executing code sent to me by someone else (the Python devs). That
machine needs a certain measure of access to the internet (to fetch
code, and to run certain tests), and the easy and naive way to set it
up is to give it full access to everything, which is the trust that I
spoke of. Firewalling that box so it can't see anything it's not
allowed to see is certainly possible, but that requires sysadmin
skills, not coder skills, hence my comment. And it's very easy to make
a mistake that you won't notice - everything works just fine, because
normally that buildbot won't do anything it shouldn't.

ChrisA
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Antonio Cavallo]

I wonder if there is any interest in starting to use the opensuse build 
servers for continuous build and testing on redhat, fedora suse and (I 
think) debian: that will solve once for all the maintenance issues on 
those platforms (and provide a reliable build).



Regards,
Antonio
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 September 2014 11:07, Antonio Cavallo  wrote:
> I wonder if there is any interest in starting to use the opensuse build
> servers for continuous build and testing on redhat, fedora suse and (I
> think) debian: that will solve once for all the maintenance issues on those
> platforms (and provide a reliable build).

It sounds like a good idea in principle, but I suspect there would be
a lot of devils in those details. That doesn't make it a bad idea,
just something that would need a volunteer to investigate further
before we could form a real opinion.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 September 2014 15:45, Shorya Raj  wrote:
> Also, have you considered using Travis? It would allow us to add to the
> configurations, at least generally...

Many SaaS solution assume the use of specific centralised identity
providers, which isn't a function we're prepared to outsource (we know
we need to fix our current proliferation of identity silos, but that's
a big project and there are other tasks ahead of it on the todo list
for the existing infrastructure team).

The limiting factor is generally time - various aspects of the current
system are clumsy, but they work, so unless someone is particularly
keen and willing to work through all the factors that led to the
current setup and propose changes (including at least a rough concept
of how ongoing maintenance will work), the status quo wins by default.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 September 2014 16:59, Shorya Raj  wrote:
>> The limiting factor is generally time - various aspects of the current
>> system are clumsy, but they work, so unless someone is particularly
>> keen and willing to work through all the factors that led to the
>> current setup and propose changes (including at least a rough concept
>> of how ongoing maintenance will work), the status quo wins by default.
>
> If you could outline some of these, I would be willing to have a look at
> what I could do.

One that seems promising to me would be to experiment with dynamic
testing in OpenStack:
http://docs.buildbot.net/latest/manual/cfg-buildslaves.html#openstack

Creating test VMs on demand avoids a lot of the security issues
otherwise incurred by someone setting up a persistent build slave and
provides a more consistent test environment.

https://wiki.python.org/moin/BuildBot gives details of the test system
configuration details. Due to the overlap with the infrastructure team
(to make use of the Rackspace VM resources), infrastruct...@python.org
may be a better list to ask for more details on what OpenStack
resources we have available (this idea really sits somewhere between
infrastructure and python-dev, as Antoine does most of the BuildBot
master maintenance).

If we could get something like that running, then we might be able to
trim the preconfigured buildbot fleet back to just the non-x86
machines.

Cheers,
Nick.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[A. Cavallo]

Yes there are "details" indeed. But not show stoppers. A prototype can be seen 
here: http://cclimited.webfactional.com
The nice bit is testing will be executed in a total fresh instance,  an added 
bonus 

On 4 September 2014 05:16:01 GMT+01:00, Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>On 4 September 2014 11:07, Antonio Cavallo 
>wrote:
>> I wonder if there is any interest in starting to use the opensuse
>build
>> servers for continuous build and testing on redhat, fedora suse and
>(I
>> think) debian: that will solve once for all the maintenance issues on
>those
>> platforms (and provide a reliable build).
>
>It sounds like a good idea in principle, but I suspect there would be
>a lot of devils in those details. That doesn't make it a bad idea,
>just something that would need a volunteer to investigate further
>before we could form a real opinion.
>
>Cheers,
>Nick.
>
>-- 
>Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 September 2014 18:50, A. Cavallo  wrote:
> Yes there are "details" indeed. But not show stoppers. A prototype can be
> seen here: http://cclimited.webfactional.com
> The nice bit is testing will be executed in a total fresh instance, an added
> bonus

Oh, very nice!

What is needed to get that up and running?

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
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