Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
2012/5/4 Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com: Anyway, the implementation and/or the documentation is buggy and should be fixed (especially the Windows case). Done, I renamed adjusted to adjustable, fixed its value on Windows (time.time) and Linux (time.monotonic), and updated the doc. -- changeset: 77415:0e46e0cd368f tag: tip user:Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com date:Tue Jun 12 22:46:37 2012 +0200 files: Doc/library/time.rst Include/pytime.h Lib/test/test_time.py Misc/NEWS Modules/timemodule.c Python/pytime.c description: PEP 418: Rename adjusted attribute to adjustable in time.get_clock_info() result Fix also its value on Windows and Linux according to its documentation: adjustable indicates if the clock *can be* adjusted, not if it is or was adjusted. In most cases, it is not possible to indicate if a clock is or was adjusted. -- Basically, time.get_clock_info().adjustable is only True for time.time(). It can also be True for time.perf_counter() if time.monotonic() is not available. I prefer adjustable over adjusted because it is well defined and its value is well known. For example, it is not easy to say if time.monotonic() is adjusted or not on Linux, whereas I can say that time.monotonic() is not *adjustable* on any OS. I will update the PEP except if someone complains :-) Sorry for being late, but I was exhausted by this PEP. Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
To me, adjusted and is_adjusted both imply that an adjustment has already been made; adjustable only implies that it is possible. The documentation is: True if the clock can be adjusted (e.g. by a NTP daemon), False otherwise. I prefer adjustable, because no OS tell us if the clock has an ajustement or not... except Windows: see GetSystemTimeAdjustment(). http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724394%28v=vs.85%29.aspx I propose to rename is_adjusted (which is now called adjusted) to adjustable, and not use GetSystemTimeAdjustment() on Windows but hardcode the value to True for the system clock, False for other functions (GetTick, QueryPerformanceCounter, ...). Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
On 04May2012 01:47, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote: | I prefer adjustable, because no OS tell us if the clock has an | ajustement or not... except Windows: see GetSystemTimeAdjustment(). | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724394%28v=vs.85%29.aspx | | I propose to rename is_adjusted (which is now called adjusted) to | adjustable, I'm -1 on that. To my mind adjustable suggests that the caller can adjust the clock, while adjusted suggests that the clock may be adjusted by a mechanism outside the caller's hands. That latter is the meaning in the context of the PEP. Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ I'm not making any of this up you know. - Anna Russell ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
I'm -1 on that. To my mind adjustable suggests that the caller can adjust the clock, while adjusted suggests that the clock may be adjusted by a mechanism outside the caller's hands. That latter is the meaning in the context of the PEP. Anyway, the implementation and/or the documentation is buggy and should be fixed (especially the Windows case). Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au wrote: On 04May2012 01:47, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote: | I prefer adjustable, because no OS tell us if the clock has an | ajustement or not... except Windows: see GetSystemTimeAdjustment(). | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724394%28v=vs.85%29.aspx | | I propose to rename is_adjusted (which is now called adjusted) to | adjustable, I'm -1 on that. To my mind adjustable suggests that the caller can adjust the clock, while adjusted suggests that the clock may be adjusted by a mechanism outside the caller's hands. That latter is the meaning in the context of the PEP. +1 The connotations of adjusted and adjustable are slightly different and, in this case, adjusted is a better fit. The fact that adjusted may be misinterpreted as this clock has been adjusted in the past (incorrectly leaving out the and/or may be adjusted in the future part) is still closer to the mark than the likely misinterpretation of adjustable as meaning can be adjusted directly by the application (which is simply false, unless the application starts tinkering with the relevant platform specific time configuration interfaces, which aren't exposed by the standard library). Regards, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
I've now renamed is_monotonic to monotonic and is_adjusted to adjusted. 2012/4/29 Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org: Hi, I see PEP 418 gives time.clock_info() two boolean fields named is_monotonic and is_adjusted. I think the is_ is unnecessary and a bit ugly, and they could just be renamed monotonic and adjusted. Thoughts? -- Regards, Benjamin -- Regards, Benjamin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2012/4/29 Jim J. Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com: In http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-April/119134.html Benjamin Peterson wrote: I see PEP 418 gives time.clock_info() two boolean fields named is_monotonic and is_adjusted. I think the is_ is unnecessary and a bit ugly, and they could just be renamed monotonic and adjusted. I agree with monotonic, but I think it should be adjustable. I don't really care, but I think adjusted is fine. As in this clock is adjusted (occasionally). monotonic is an adjective, whereas adjusted is (part of) a verb. I think both should be adjectives. Does adjusted mean that it has been adjusted, that it can be adjusted or it will be adjusted? Cheers, Mark. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
On 29Apr2012 21:31, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: | 2012/4/29 Jim J. Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com: | In http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-April/119134.html | Benjamin Peterson wrote: | | I see PEP 418 gives time.clock_info() two boolean fields named | is_monotonic and is_adjusted. I think the is_ is unnecessary and | a bit ugly, and they could just be renamed monotonic and adjusted. | | I agree with monotonic, but I think it should be adjustable. | | I don't really care, but I think adjusted is fine. As in this clock | is adjusted (occasionally). -1 on adjustable. That suggests the user can adjust it, not that the OS may adjust it. +1 on adjusted over is_adjusted. -- Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ Winter is gods' way of telling us to polish. - Peter Harper bo...@freenet.carleton.ca harp...@algonquinc.on.ca ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
On 30Apr2012 09:26, Mark Shannon m...@hotpy.org wrote: | monotonic is an adjective, Yes. | whereas adjusted is (part of) a verb. No. It is an adjective. | I think | both should be adjectives. Does adjusted mean that it has been | adjusted, that it can be adjusted or it will be adjusted? That depends on context. Reach for the doco. Of course, in the context of the PEP means may be adjusted by exterior clock maintenance like NTP, and in fact this may have already happened. I am unhappy with that filled with underscores and used as the name:-( Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:25:16 -0400 Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: Hi, I see PEP 418 gives time.clock_info() two boolean fields named is_monotonic and is_adjusted. I think the is_ is unnecessary and a bit ugly, and they could just be renamed monotonic and adjusted. Thoughts? Agreed. cheers Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] time.clock_info() field names
2012/4/29 Jim J. Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com: In http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-April/119134.html Benjamin Peterson wrote: I see PEP 418 gives time.clock_info() two boolean fields named is_monotonic and is_adjusted. I think the is_ is unnecessary and a bit ugly, and they could just be renamed monotonic and adjusted. I agree with monotonic, but I think it should be adjustable. I don't really care, but I think adjusted is fine. As in this clock is adjusted (occasionally). -- Regards, Benjamin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
