[RELEASED] Python 3.2.1
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On behalf of the Python development team, I am pleased to announce the final release of Python 3.2.1. Python 3.2.1 is the first bugfix release for Python 3.2, fixing over 120 bugs and regressions in Python 3.2. For an extensive list of changes and features in the 3.2 line, see http://docs.python.org/3.2/whatsnew/3.2.html To download Python 3.2.1 visit: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.1/ This is a final release: Please report any bugs you may notice to: http://bugs.python.org/ Enjoy! - -- Georg Brandl, Release Manager georg at python.org (on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 3.2's contributors) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk4aiNMACgkQN9GcIYhpnLDofwCglfgDQ1/B/TxxwfqtDxK13ksz micAn0CVWmNNaYE2a6z0N7+Dz+hCZSj1 =7Mia -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
[ANN] Leipzig Python User Group - Meeting, July 12, 2011, 08:00pm
=== Leipzig Python User Group === We will meet on Tuesday, July 12 at 8:00 pm at the training center of Python Academy in Leipzig, Germany ( http://www.python-academy.com/center/find.html ). Everybody who uses Python, plans to do so or is interested in learning more about the language is encouraged to participate. While the meeting language will be mainly German, we will provide English translation if needed. Food and soft drinks are provided. Please send a short confirmation mail to i...@python-academy.de, so we can prepare appropriately. Current information about the meetings are at http://www.python-academy.com/user-group . Mike == Leipzig Python User Group === Wir treffen uns am Dienstag, 12.07.2011 um 20:00 Uhr im Schulungszentrum der Python Academy in Leipzig ( http://www.python-academy.de/Schulungszentrum/anfahrt.html ). Willkommen ist jeder, der Interesse an Python hat, die Sprache bereits nutzt oder nutzen möchte. Für das leibliche Wohl wird gesorgt. Eine Anmeldung unter i...@python-academy.de wäre nett, damit wir genug Essen besorgen können. Aktuelle Informationen zu den Treffen sind unter http://www.python-academy.de/User-Group zu finden. Viele Grüße Mike -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
Announcing Pushy 0.5.1
Greetings, Pushy 0.5.1 is now available. This is a bug-fix release, fixing a critical bug in the connection initiation code. There are no new features or functional changes. Cheers, Andrew Wilkins. What is Pushy? == Pushy is a Python package for connecting Python interpreters, providing each one access to objects in the other. Pushy provides the novel ability to spawn and connect to Python interpreters not only on the local host, but also on remote hosts via SSH, requiring nothing but Python and a running SSH daemon on the remote host. Pushy also provides a simple Java API, which Java applications can use to spawn and connect to Python processes and access objects within them. Python support is currently restricted to 2.4.x - 2.7.x. The Pushy Java API supports Java 1.4+. License == Pushy is released exclusively under the MIT License. Resources == - Source Repository and Issue Tracker: http://launchpad.net/pushy - PyPI: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pushy/0.5.1 - Homepage: http://awilkins.id.au/pushy - Blog: http://blog.awilkins.id.au -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
OK, I lied, I do have another question...
Hi Everyone,
So I've used Glade to build a simple UI and I'm loading it with
gtkBuilder. The UI loads fine but, for some reason, none of my signals
are being connected. For example, in Glade, I said when the button
called btnExit was clicked, execute the btnExit_clicked method. Then, in
my App() class definition, I defined btnExit_clicked(self, widget) and
simply added the gtk.main_quit() statement (to exit). But when I start
my app, I am told that the btnExit_clicked() method isn't defined. This
happens for every single signal I define.
I'm assuming I'm simply putting something in the wrong place so can
anyone have a look at this and tell me what that might be? It looks
almost identical to examples I've seen on the net. Thanks!
CODE:
class App:
def __init__(self):
builder = gtk.Builder()
builder.add_from_file('bcbackup.ui')
builder.connect_signals({on_window_destroy : gtk.main_quit,
on_btnExit_clicked : btnExit_clicked})
self.window = builder.get_object(winMain)
self.window.show()
def btnSaveInformation_clicked(self, widget):
pass
def btnExit_clicked(self, widget):
gtk.main_quit()
if __name__ == __main__:
myApp = App()
gtk.main()
END CODE
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python xauth
kracekumar ramaraju wrote: I am looking to use xauth in python ? It is for my command line process, I would like to have few examples and resources. A simple example import subprocess as SP proc = [ 'xauth' , 'list' , ':0' ] pipe = SP.Popen( proc , stdout = SP.PIPE ) data = pipe.stdout.readline() print '\n' , data em1dsq/unix:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 10a533afab15a57c8704a16d1dc5bb12 -- Stanley C. Kitching Human Being Phoenix, Arizona -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python xauth
On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 11:23 PM, kracekumar ramaraju kracethekingma...@gmail.com wrote: I am looking to use xauth in python?It is for my command line process,I would like to have few examples and resources. First, by xauth do you mean the X11 authorization scheme, or the extended authentication (xauth.org) scheme? The name is unfortunately overloaded. Second, have you tried googling for python xauth? Cheers, Ian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A beginning programmer
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Eric egriffit...@gmail.com wrote: But I just don't know what to do with it, I don't have any problems that need to be solved... There are always more problems to be solved than people willing to solve them! It's just a matter of finding ones you're interested in. Several people have recommended looking at bugtrackers and such. Another good source of programming tasks is automation - look for any task that you or someone else does repeatedly, and write a script that does it. That can range from a half-dozen lines of shell script up to full-on commercial-grade packages (if you think about it, an accounting system is nothing more than reports automation). Learn as many languages as you can. Develop the skill of picking up a new language and mastering it; obscure languages have just as interesting problems as do mainstream ones, and being able to learn Pike might suddenly come in handy when you find yourself invited to code on somebody's MUD some day! Chris Angelico Currently striving to be the Mr Melas of programming languages -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to get or set the text of a textfield?
On Mon, 2011-07-11 at 03:44 +, John Gordon wrote: In mailman.877.1310350451.1164.python-l...@python.org Anthony Papillion papill...@gmail.com writes: So I've built a UI with Glade and have loaded it using the standard Python code. In my UI, I have a textfield called txtUsername. How do I get and set the text in this field from my Python code? field.get_text() field.set_text(value) http://pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/class-gtkentry.html#method-gtkentry--set-text and it will print a list of methods that are defined by that object. Hopefully one of them will be called something helpful like set_text() or set_property(). Once you know the method name, you might try a Google search to determine the exact usage and arguments. -1 -1 -1 Do not google [search the Internet] for solutions to pyGtk problems. That is just a confusing waste of time. Use the *excellent* and well-linked documentation: http://pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/ http://faq.pygtk.org/index.py?req=index The FAQ is extensive and really does cover a lot of the common questions. Also there is a list specifically for pygtk questions: http://www.daa.com.au/mailman/listinfo/pygtk Google, or Bing, or even DuckDuckGo, are *not* your friends. They are enormous and inefficient time-sinks. They are a *BAD* way to solve problems. Use the documentation. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 11 Jul, 02:43, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: Because RAD tools are for GUI toolkits, not for languages. If you're using GTK, Glade works fine. Same with QT and QTDesigner. If you're using WPF with IronPython, t These [Glade, etc...] are *NOT* RAD tools. They are GUI designers. A RAD tool provides a GUI designer that can be bound to a backend [typically an SQL database]. RAD = GUI + ORM. The type speciemens for RAD tools were Borland Delphi and Microsoft Visual Basic. They were not a combination of GUI designer and SQL/ORM backend. They were a combination of GUI designer, code editor, compiler, and debugger. Sturla -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 11 Jul, 00:50, Ivan Kljaic iklj...@gmail.com wrote: Ok Guys. I know that most of us have been expiriencing the need for a nice Gui builder tool for RAD and most of us have been googling for it a lot of times. But seriously. Why is the not even one single RAD tool for Python. I mean what happened to boa constructor that it stopped developing. I simply do not see any reasons why there isn't anything. Please help me understand it. Any insights? If you by RAD tool mean GUI builder, I'd recommend wxFormBuilder for wxPython, QtCreator for PyQt or PySide, and GLADE for PyGTK. Personally I prefer wxFormBuilder and wxPython, but it's a matter of taste. Sturla -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: parsing packets
Am 10.07.2011 22:59 schrieb Littlefield, Tyler: Hello all: I'm working on a server that will need to parse packets sent from a client, and construct it's own packets. Are these packets sent as separate UDP packets or embedded in a TCP stream? In the first case, you already have packets and only have to parse them. In a stream, you first have to split them up. In the following, I will talk about UDP datagrams. For TCP, further work is needed. The setup is something like this: the first two bytes is the type of the packet. Then you have type = struct.unpack(H, packet), payload1 = packet[2:] So, lets say we have a packet set to connect. There are two types of connect packet: a auth packet and a connect packet. The connect packet then has two bytes with the type, another byte that notes that it is a connect packet, and 4 bytes that contains the version of the client. if type == CONNECT: subtype = struct.unpack(B, payload1) payload2 = payload1[1:] if subtype == CONNECT: upx = payload2.split(\0) assert len(upx) == 3 and upx[-1] == '' username, password = upx[:2] else: assert len(payload2) == 4 version = struct.unpack(L, payload2) The auth packet has the two bytes that tells what packet it is, one byte denoting that it is an auth packet, then the username, a NULL character, and a password and a NULL character. With all of this said, I'm kind of curious how I would 1) parse out something like this (I am using twisted, so it'll just be passed to my Receive function), I. e., you already have your packets distinct? That's fine. and how I get the length of the packet with multiple NULL values. With len(), how else? I'm also looking to build a packet and send it back out, is there something that will allow me to designate two bytes, set individual bits, then put it altogether in a packet to be sent out? The same: with struct.pack(). Thomas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Jul 11, 2:42 am, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: But Open Source land is simply too fragmented. There are too many database bindings [and RAD requires something like an ORM (think SQLalchemy)] and far too many GUI toolkits [Qt, Gtk, wx, and the list goes on and on]. Nothing can muster the gravity required to bring a quality RAD tool into existence. Why too many ? Natural selection is a GoodThing. Python is known as the language with more web frameworks than keywords, and this doesn't prevent some of these frameworks to be 1/ pretty good and 2/ becoming de facto standards. I also suspect - seeing some of the articles that float across the FLOSS-o-sphere mentioning RAD - that many Open Source developers have never had the pleasure [yes, it is a pleasure] of using a professional RAD tool. This is slightly arrogant. Did you occur to you that quite a few OSS developers may have at least as much experience as you do with these kind of tools and just happen to actually prefer the unix way of doing things ? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
bruno.desthuilli...@gmail.com bruno.desthuilli...@gmail.com writes: On Jul 11, 2:42 am, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: But Open Source land is simply too fragmented. There are too many database bindings [and RAD requires something like an ORM (think SQLalchemy)] and far too many GUI toolkits [Qt, Gtk, wx, and the list goes on and on]. Why too many ? Natural selection is a GoodThing. Natural selection is not a good thing. It is blind and unthinking and cruel and wasteful and haphazard and purposeless. Those aren't traits to recommend it, IMO. (It's also not a bad thing. Natural selection just is.) Natural selection is not what's happening here. Rather, *artifical* selection, with people as the agents of selection, have purposes and wants that guide their selections. It would be better to say: Competition can be (not an unalloyed “is”) a Good Thing. Python is known as the language with more web frameworks than keywords, and this doesn't prevent some of these frameworks to be 1/ pretty good and 2/ becoming de facto standards. Right. People are selecting web frameworks for their fitness to purposes, but their purposes are many and change over time. So there can be many such frameworks, of varying popularity, and that's a good thing. I also suspect - seeing some of the articles that float across the FLOSS-o-sphere mentioning RAD - that many Open Source developers have never had the pleasure [yes, it is a pleasure] of using a professional RAD tool. This is slightly arrogant. Did you occur to you that quite a few OSS developers may have at least as much experience as you do with these kind of tools and just happen to actually prefer the unix way of doing things ? Yes. As someone who has used some of those all-in-one one-size-fits-most tools, I can testify that their usefulness is severely limited when compared with the Unix model. The Unix model is: a collection of general-purpose, customisable tools, with clear standard interfaces that work together well, and are easily replaceable without losing the benefit of all the others. -- \ “Are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “Umm, I think so, | `\Brain, but what if the chicken won't wear the nylons?” —_Pinky | _o__) and The Brain_ | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Freeze statically
Hi everyone! Let me explain you my big adventure. So I trying to make a static python executable using the native Python freeze. I've modified the file Modules/Setup.dist using this perl cli : perl -pi -e 's!(^# \*shared\*)!*static*\n$1!' Modules/Setup.dist Then ./configure, make make install If I'm using my python interpreter to build with freeze a simple project that we can call hello world. It works perfectly but it is still : dynamically linked (uses shared libs). So modifying the Makefile using '-static' for linking, I hopped I could make it static. But... it fail : +-- + ... /home/fluxius/Python-2.7.2/./Modules/pwdmodule.c:156: warning: Using 'setpwent' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking /home/fluxius/Python-2.7.2/./Modules/pwdmodule.c:168: warning: Using 'endpwent' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking /usr/bin/ld: dynamic STT_GNU_IFUNC symbol `strcmp' with pointer equality in `/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/ 4.5.2/../../../libc.a(strcmp.o)' can not be used when making an executable; recompile with -fPIE and relink with -pie collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [hello] Erreur 1 +-- + Help me please!! =) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 11 Jul, 14:39, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote: The Unix model is: a collection of general-purpose, customisable tools, with clear standard interfaces that work together well, and are easily replaceable without losing the benefit of all the others. This is opposed to the Windows model of a one-click installer for a monolithic application. Many Windows users get extremely frustrated when they have to use more than one tool. There is also a deep anxiety of using the keyboard. This means that command line tools are out of the question (everything needs a GUI). In the Windows world, even programming should be drag-and-drop with the mouse. Windows programmers will go to extreme measures to avoid typing code on their own, as tke keyboard is so scary. The most extreme case is not Visual Basic but LabView, where even business logic is drag-and-drop. A side-effect is that many Windows developers are too dumb to write code on their own, and rely on pre-coded components that can be dropped on a form. A common fail-case is multiuser applications, where the developers do not understand anything about what is going on, and scalability is non-existent. Sturla -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Virtual functions are virtually invisible!
On Jul 10, 11:45 pm, Michael Hrivnak mhriv...@hrivnak.org wrote: I can't believe you're saying that you will create a sub-class without taking the time to understand the base class. I'm NOT saying that so stop putting words in my mouth! Seriously? That right there is why you are seeing method overrides that aren't documented. You being a bit bombastic now with this *rolls-eyes* How can you document something you don't understand? Furthermore, how can you have any confidence in your subclass if you don't understand what its base class is doing? Do you write unit tests? How do you know what to test if you don't understand the code you are subclassing? You took my simple statement of... It is not ALWAYS necessary to have an intimate knowledge of the base class when creating derived classes... and extrapolated THAT nonsense? Okay let me show you a simple example of not needing to know the base class intimatly. I'll use the tkSimpleDialog... class MyDialog(tkSimpleDialog.Dialog): def body(self, master): #imagine i created widgets here. NOW. Would it really be nessesary at this point to have an intimate knowledge of the base class? Hmm? Suggesting that no developers document their methods? Incredible. Very, very few document clobbered virtual methods. yes. Clobbered methods have magic? Multi-layered magic? Of course! That is, in the perverted case of Clarke's third law[1]... Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic... And since class inheritance can be multi-layered, um, you get the idea. Perhaps when you take the time to 1) document the base class and 2) understand that base class before subclassing it, that magic will start to look like reasonable and logical processes. You're preaching to the choir reverend! Professional developers document their code. They take the time to understand the code they are working on. If you don't want to do those things, that's your business, and I'm sure you can find other people who also don't do those things. But I really don't think you'll have much success changing the language to accommodate your refusal to follow the most basic best practices. It's not me that needs to change kind sir, it is the community in general. I document my code. I follow the python style guide. I always create unit tests. Unfortunately no matter how well i write code i cannot force others to do so. Heck i have posted many fixes for the abomination called tkSimpleDialog and not only do they refuse to upgrade the code, they refuse to even post comments! This mandate must be handed down from the gods who reside on Mount REFUSE-E-OUS to RECOGNIZE-E-OUS a major PROBLEM-O-MOUS [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of my colleague asked an interesting: *If Python use indentation to denote scope, why it still needs semi-colon at the end of function declaration and for/while/if loop?* My immediate response is: it allows us to fit statements into one line. e.g. if a == 1: print a However I do not find it to be a particularly strong argument. I think PEP8 does not recommend this kind of coding style anyway, so one-liner should not be used in the first place! Is there any other reasons for use of semi-colon in python? Cheers -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 7/10/11 6:50 PM, Ivan Kljaic wrote: Ok Guys. I know that most of us have been expiriencing the need for a nice Gui builder tool for RAD and most of us have been googling for it a lot of times. But seriously. Why is the not even one single RAD tool for Python. I mean what happened to boa constructor that it stopped developing. I simply do not see any reasons why there isn't anything. Please help me understand it. Any insights? http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net/ -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
* sturlamolden (Mon, 11 Jul 2011 06:44:22 -0700 (PDT)) On 11 Jul, 14:39, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote: The Unix model is: a collection of general-purpose, customisable tools, with clear standard interfaces that work together well, and are easily replaceable without losing the benefit of all the others. This is opposed to the Windows model of a one-click installer for a monolithic application. Many Windows users get extremely frustrated when they have to use more than one tool. *sigh* There is no Windows nor Unix model. There is only you-get-what- you-pay-for. On Windows, you're a customer and the developer wants to make using his application as convenient as possible for you, the customer. On Unix you don't pay and the developer couldn't care less if his application works together with application b or how much it takes you to actually get this damn thing running. And as soon as developers start developing for Unix customers (say Komodo, for instance), they start following the Windows model - as you call it. Thorsten -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
On 07/11/2011 03:51 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of my colleague asked an interesting: /If Python use indentation to denote scope, why it still needs semi-colon at the end of function declaration and for/while/if loop?/ My immediate response is: it allows us to fit statements into one line. e.g. if a == 1: print a However I do not find it to be a particularly strong argument. I think PEP8 does not recommend this kind of coding style anyway, so one-liner should not be used in the first place! Basically, it looks better, and is more readable. A colon, in English like in Python, means that something follows that is related to what was before the colon. So the colon makes it abundantly clear to the human reader that a block follows, and that that block is to be considered in relation to what was just said, before the colon. Coincidentally, Guido wrote this blog post just last week, without which I'd be just as much at a loss as you: http://python-history.blogspot.com/2011/07/karin-dewar-indentation-and-colon.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 11 Jul, 16:10, Thorsten Kampe thors...@thorstenkampe.de wrote: And as soon as developers start developing for Unix customers (say Komodo, for instance), they start following the Windows model - as you call it. You are probably aware that Unix and Unix customers have been around since the 1970s. I would expect the paradigm to be changed by now. S.M. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Saving emails
Hello, my curiosity these day lay around the problem given by Kmail2. I'd like to keep my old emails and a backup would satisfy my needs. The only conditions should be that the mails will come back in a quick way. I found this page http://www.ducea.com/2006/11/25/cleanup-maildir-folders-archive-delete-old- mails/ Which gives me some point, but the program is too old and I'd like to use Python 3. Another chance it would be to implement an IMAP server which move old emails in and out of an archive. Then it will be simple to recall old emails. Some docs about email deciphering. Kmail uses a maildir and several subfolders. I'd like to export the emails in mbox file and perhaps to separate by a period of time, say July2010, September2010 end so forth. Thanks in advance -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to get or set the text of a textfield?
In mailman.884.1310380058.1164.python-l...@python.org Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org writes: Google, or Bing, or even DuckDuckGo, are *not* your friends. They are enormous and inefficient time-sinks. They are a *BAD* way to solve problems. Use the documentation. One would hope that a Google search might lead to the documentation. -- John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs gor...@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears -- Edward Gorey, The Gashlycrumb Tinies -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
Awesome! Thanks for blog post link Cheers On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote: On 07/11/2011 03:51 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of my colleague asked an interesting: /If Python use indentation to denote scope, why it still needs semi-colon at the end of function declaration and for/while/if loop?/ My immediate response is: it allows us to fit statements into one line. e.g. if a == 1: print a However I do not find it to be a particularly strong argument. I think PEP8 does not recommend this kind of coding style anyway, so one-liner should not be used in the first place! Basically, it looks better, and is more readable. A colon, in English like in Python, means that something follows that is related to what was before the colon. So the colon makes it abundantly clear to the human reader that a block follows, and that that block is to be considered in relation to what was just said, before the colon. Coincidentally, Guido wrote this blog post just last week, without which I'd be just as much at a loss as you: http://python-history.blogspot.com/2011/07/karin-dewar-indentation-and-colon.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- /*--*/ Don’t EVER make the mistake that you can design something better than what you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback cycle. That’s giving your intelligence _much_ too much credit. - Linus Torvalds -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of my colleague asked an interesting: *If Python use indentation to denote scope, why it still needs semi-colon at the end of function declaration and for/while/if loop?* My immediate response is: it allows us to fit statements into one line. e.g. if a == 1: print a However I do not find it to be a particularly strong argument. I think PEP8 does not recommend this kind of coding style anyway, so one-liner should not be used in the first place! Is there any other reasons for use of semi-colon in python? Cheers You're confusing the colon with the semi-colon. If you want two statements on the same line, you use a semi-colon. The character you're asking about is the colon. It goes at the end of an if, else, for, with, while statement. I doubt it's absolutely essential, but it helps readability, since a conditional expression might span multiple lines. if someexpression == someotherexpression: body_of_the_conditional DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:21 AM, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote: You are probably aware that Unix and Unix customers have been around since the 1970s. I would expect the paradigm to be changed by now. The paradigm of small tools that do exactly what they're supposed to, and can be combined? Nope. There's still a philosophy of services that fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, rather than expecting each application to do everything you want it to. A standard Unix command line might consist of three or more tools, piping from one into another - grep the Apache log for lines containing the name of a PHP script, pipe that into awk to pick up just the user name, IP address, and date (without time), then pipe into uniq (deliberately without first going through sort) to show who's been using the script lately. And then piped it through sed to clean up the format a bit. Yep, that's something I did recently. Point to note: This is the Unix *philosophy* versus the Windows *philosophy*, not Unix *programs* versus Windows *programs*. There are Windows programs that follow the Unix philosophy. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
* sturlamolden (Mon, 11 Jul 2011 07:21:37 -0700 (PDT)) On 11 Jul, 16:10, Thorsten Kampe thors...@thorstenkampe.de wrote: And as soon as developers start developing for Unix customers (say Komodo, for instance), they start following the Windows model - as you call it. You are probably aware that Unix and Unix customers have been around since the 1970s. I would expect the paradigm to be changed by now. For the /customers/ on Unix it never was a paradigm. They would have laughed in their vendor's face if they had gotten the here are the tools, just make them work together as you like attitude[1]. Thorsten [1] at least starting from the beginning of the nineties when commercial alternatives to Unix began to emerge -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Virtual functions are virtually invisible!
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:42 PM, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: This mandate must be handed down from the gods who reside on Mount REFUSE-E-OUS to RECOGNIZE-E-OUS a major PROBLEM-O-MOUS I assume you're trying to reference Mount Olympus where the Greek gods live, but I'm left thinking more of Mount Vesuvius... possibly not the best reference for what you're saying. But once again, Ranting Rick posts something saying that he is perfect and everyone else needs to change. I can see why you keep landing in killfiles [1]. ChrisA [1] http://bofh.ch/bofh/bsmh2.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Finding duplicated photo
Thomas Jollans wrote: If Gwenview simply moves/renames the images, is it not enough to compare the actual files, byte by byte? For the work at the spot I found Geeqie, doing right. In the other hand learning some PIL function is one of my interest. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
On 2011-07-11, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote: On 07/11/2011 03:51 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of my colleague asked an interesting: /If Python use indentation to denote scope, why it still needs semi-colon at the end of function declaration and for/while/if loop?/ My immediate response is: it allows us to fit statements into one line. e.g. if a == 1: print a However I do not find it to be a particularly strong argument. I think PEP8 does not recommend this kind of coding style anyway, so one-liner should not be used in the first place! Basically, it looks better, and is more readable. And it makes adding a python mode to a programming editor almost trivial. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! I am a jelly donut. at I am a jelly donut. gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
Could it have been made optional, like the trailing comma in list declaration? -- Seb 2011/7/11 Anthony Kong anthony.hw.k...@gmail.com Awesome! Thanks for blog post link Cheers On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote: On 07/11/2011 03:51 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of my colleague asked an interesting: /If Python use indentation to denote scope, why it still needs semi-colon at the end of function declaration and for/while/if loop?/ My immediate response is: it allows us to fit statements into one line. e.g. if a == 1: print a However I do not find it to be a particularly strong argument. I think PEP8 does not recommend this kind of coding style anyway, so one-liner should not be used in the first place! Basically, it looks better, and is more readable. A colon, in English like in Python, means that something follows that is related to what was before the colon. So the colon makes it abundantly clear to the human reader that a block follows, and that that block is to be considered in relation to what was just said, before the colon. Coincidentally, Guido wrote this blog post just last week, without which I'd be just as much at a loss as you: http://python-history.blogspot.com/2011/07/karin-dewar-indentation-and-colon.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- /*--*/ Don’t EVER make the mistake that you can design something better than what you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback cycle. That’s giving your intelligence _much_ too much credit. - Linus Torvalds -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Finding duplicated photo
Kevin Zhang wrote: If anyone's interested, pleas checkout the source code in the attachment and welcome any advise. I found that isn't python 3 code :( Then the code should go into some other program to allow actions on those pictures which are matching each other. Am I right? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Finding duplicated photo
Dave Angel wrote: If your real problem is identifying a renamed file amongst thousands of others, why not just compare the metadata? it'll be much faster. This was the primer situation, then to get into the dirt I tought something more sophisticated. There was a program some year's back which was brilliant an fast to find similar pictures on several thousand of them. Now I can't recall what was the program name and very interesting to do some of mine experiments. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
On 07/11/2011 04:36 PM, Dave Angel wrote: The character you're asking about is the colon. It goes at the end of an if, else, for, with, while statement. I doubt it's absolutely essential, but it helps readability, since a conditional expression might span multiple lines. if someexpression == someotherexpression: body_of_the_conditional That, of course, is not legal Python. Your point stands when you add brackets or a backslash to hold the condition together. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
My take on 'Python Productivity tip for Java Programmer'. Could you give me more feedback?
Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of the goals of the presentations, as told by the 'sponsor' of the presentation, is to help the existing Java/Excel VBA programming team to become productive in python asap. I have a feeling that they are asking it based on their Java/Eclipse experience. By productive they are actually looking for some GUI tools that are as helpful as Eclipse. Having done Java programming before, I am thinking of answering the question this way: 1) For many of us, vi/emacs are sufficient for python development. (I used vim + ctags as my primary IDE for a very long time) 2) For a feature-rich GUI environment, we can consider pyCharm. (I was totally 'wowed' by it, and has convinced my last employer to purchased a few enterprise licenses) 3) The Python language itself is actually small and concise. The need for a full-blown IDE is less. The language itself could be counted as a part of the productive tool. 4) The functional aspect of the language (e.g. map, reduce, partial) helps to make program shorter and easier to understand 5) The 'battery included' standard library helps to avoid the need of complicated build tool. 6) The interactive shell helps to test out solutions in smaller units. It is probably not the team is expecting. Do you have more to add? What do you think about this 'answer'? Cheers -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
Sorry, typo in my original question. I do mean 'colon'. It should have read *If Python use indentation to denote scope, why it still needs colon at the end of function declaration and for/while/if loop?* Thanks On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Dave Angel da...@ieee.org wrote: On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of my colleague asked an interesting: *If Python use indentation to denote scope, why it still needs semi-colon at the end of function declaration and for/while/if loop?* My immediate response is: it allows us to fit statements into one line. e.g. if a == 1: print a However I do not find it to be a particularly strong argument. I think PEP8 does not recommend this kind of coding style anyway, so one-liner should not be used in the first place! Is there any other reasons for use of semi-colon in python? Cheers You're confusing the colon with the semi-colon. If you want two statements on the same line, you use a semi-colon. The character you're asking about is the colon. It goes at the end of an if, else, for, with, while statement. I doubt it's absolutely essential, but it helps readability, since a conditional expression might span multiple lines. if someexpression == someotherexpression: body_of_the_conditional DaveA -- /*--*/ Don’t EVER make the mistake that you can design something better than what you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback cycle. That’s giving your intelligence _much_ too much credit. - Linus Torvalds -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Sébastien Volle sebastien.vo...@gmail.com wrote: Could it have been made optional, like the trailing comma in list declaration? Cobra makes the colons optional, so probably yes. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OK, I lied, I do have another question...
The callback is a method so you need to specify the owner
builder.connect_signals({on_window_destroy : gtk.main_quit,
on_btnExit_clicked : self.btnExit_clicked})
Got this info from
http://www.pygtk.org/articles/pygtk-glade-gui/Creating_a_GUI_using_PyGTK_and_Glade.htm
cheers
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Property setter and lambda question
Hi, all,
This question is in the same context of my two earlier questions. This
question was raised by some python beginners, and I would like to check with
the list to ensure I provide a correct answer.
Here is a code snippet I used to demonstrate the keyword *property*:
class A(object):
def __init__(self):
self.__not_here = 1
def __get_not_here(self):
return self.__not_here
def __set_not_here(self, v):
print I am called
self.__not_here = v
not_here = property(lambda self: self.__get_not_here(), lambda self, v:
self.__set_not_here(v))
# not_here = property(lambda self: self.__not_here, lambda self, v:
self.__not_here = v)
So the question: is it possible to use lambda expression at all for the
setter? (As in the last, commented-out line)
Python interpreter will throw an exception right there if I use the last
line ('SyntaxError: lambda cannot contain assignment'). I'd use pass a
setter method anyway.
What is your preferred solution?
--
Tony Kong
*blog:* www.ahwkong.com
/*--*/
Don’t EVER make the mistake that you can design something better than what
you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback
cycle. That’s giving your intelligence _much_ too much credit.
- Linus Torvalds
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: My take on 'Python Productivity tip for Java Programmer'. Could you give me more feedback?
On 07/11/2011 05:07 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of the goals of the presentations, as told by the 'sponsor' of the presentation, is to help the existing Java/Excel VBA programming team to become productive in python asap. I have a feeling that they are asking it based on their Java/Eclipse experience. By productive they are actually looking for some GUI tools that are as helpful as Eclipse. Having done Java programming before, I am thinking of answering the question this way: 1) For many of us, vi/emacs are sufficient for python development. (I used vim + ctags as my primary IDE for a very long time) 2) For a feature-rich GUI environment, we can consider pyCharm. (I was totally 'wowed' by it, and has convinced my last employer to purchased a few enterprise licenses) 3) The Python language itself is actually small and concise. The need for a full-blown IDE is less. The language itself could be counted as a part of the productive tool. If your colleagues are used to Eclipse, it's almost certainly best to continue using Eclipse, with PyDev. Don't make a big deal of the tools, just say that many Pythonista don't use a heavy IDE, mention PyDev, and, if you want to, recommend pyCharm. 4) The functional aspect of the language (e.g. map, reduce, partial) helps to make program shorter and easier to understand Don't overemphasize this. Those functions can be very useful, and using them can lead to very concise and simple code, but (big BUT) more often than not, they're overly cryptic when compared to list comprehension and generator expressions. Do make a huge case for generator expressions/list comprehension, and generators. 5) The 'battery included' standard library helps to avoid the need of complicated build tool. 6) The interactive shell helps to test out solutions in smaller units. Speaking of testing: introduce them to the doctest module. It is probably not the team is expecting. Do you have more to add? What do you think about this 'answer'? If using Jython is an option, present it! Jython will allow Java programmers to use their existing knowledge of the Java standard library. Explain, and make the case for, duck typing. While actual functional programming is, as I said, a bit out there from a Java/VBA standpoint, do show off function objects. If you know what they're going to do with Python, you should point them to relevant libraries/modules. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ctypes: point to buffer in structure
On Jul 11, 1:12 am, Tim Roberts t...@probo.com wrote:
Jesse R jessr...@gmail.com wrote:
Hey I've been trying to convert this to run through ctypes and i'm
having a hard time
typedef struct _SYSTEM_PROCESS_ID_INFORMATION
{
HANDLE ProcessId;
UNICODE_STRING ImageName;
} SYSTEM_PROCESS_IMAGE_NAME_INFORMATION,
*PSYSTEM_PROCESS_IMAGE_NAME_INFORMATION;
to
class SYSTEM_PROCESS_ID_INFORMATION(ctypes.Structure):
_fields_ = [('pid', ctypes.c_ulong),
('imageName', ctypes.c_wchar_p)]
...
does anyone know how to get this working?
UNICODE_STRING is not just a pointer to wide characters. It is itself a
structure:
typedef struct _UNICODE_STRING {
USHORT Length;
USHORT MaximumLength;
PWSTR Buffer;
} UNICODE_STRING;
So, I think you want fields of ctypes.c_ulong, ctypes.c_ushort,
ctypes.c_ushort, and ctypes.c_wchar_p. MaximumLength gives the allocated
size of the buffer. Length gives the length of the string currently held
in the buffer. It can be less than the maximum length, and the buffer does
NOT necessarily contain a zero-terminator.
UNICODE_STRING and ANSI_STRING are used in kernel programming to avoid the
potential ambiguities of counted strings.
--
Tim Roberts, t...@probo.com
Providenza Boekelheide, Inc.
if UNICODE_STRING is a structure you will want a structure for it
class UNICODE_STRING(ctypes.Structure):
_fields_ = [(Length, ctypes.c_ushort),
(MaximumLength ,ctypes.c_ushort),
(Buffer, ctypes.c_wchar_p)]
class SYSTEM_PROCESS_ID_INFORMATION(ctypes.Structure):
_fields_ = [(pid, ctypes.c_ulong),
(imageName, UNICODE_STRING)]
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property setter and lambda question
On 07/11/2011 05:54 PM, Anthony Kong wrote:
Hi, all,
This question is in the same context of my two earlier questions. This
question was raised by some python beginners, and I would like to check
with the list to ensure I provide a correct answer.
Here is a code snippet I used to demonstrate the keyword *property*:
class A(object):
def __init__(self):
self.__not_here = 1
def __get_not_here(self):
return self.__not_here
def __set_not_here(self, v):
print I am called
self.__not_here = v
not_here = property(lambda self: self.__get_not_here(), lambda self,
v: self.__set_not_here(v))
# not_here = property(lambda self: self.__not_here, lambda self, v:
self.__not_here = v)
So the question: is it possible to use lambda expression at all for the
setter? (As in the last, commented-out line)
Python interpreter will throw an exception right there if I use the last
line ('SyntaxError: lambda cannot contain assignment'). I'd use pass a
setter method anyway.
What is your preferred solution?
No, a lambda can only contain an expression, not a statement. This is
not C, assignments are not expressions.
As to what I would do:
There's really no need to use lambdas at all here:
class A(object):
def __init__(self):
self.not_here = 1
def __get_not_here(self):
return self.__not_here
def __set_not_here(self, val):
self.__not_here = val
not_here = property(__get_not_here, __set_not_here)
My favourite way to create properties is of course with decorators:
class A(object):
def __init__(self):
self.not_here = 1
@property
def not_here(self):
return self.__not_here
@not_here.setter
def not_here(self, val):
self.__not_here = val
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Jul 11, 7:39 pm, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:21 AM, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote: You are probably aware that Unix and Unix customers have been around since the 1970s. I would expect the paradigm to be changed by now. The paradigm of small tools that do exactly what they're supposed to, and can be combined? Nope. There's still a philosophy of services that fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, rather than expecting each application to do everything you want it to. A standard Unix command line might consist of three or more tools, piping from one into another - grep the Apache log for lines containing the name of a PHP script, pipe that into awk to pick up just the user name, IP address, and date (without time), then pipe into uniq (deliberately without first going through sort) to show who's been using the script lately. And then piped it through sed to clean up the format a bit. Yep, that's something I did recently. Point to note: This is the Unix *philosophy* versus the Windows *philosophy*, not Unix *programs* versus Windows *programs*. There are Windows programs that follow the Unix philosophy. ChrisA The intention of programming is to close the semantic gap. - It is a fundamental task of software engineering to close the gap between application specific knowledge and technically doable formalization. For this purpose domain specific (high-level) knowledge must be transferred into an algorithm and its parameters (low-level). (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_gap - A gui-builder reduces the semantic gap by showing a widget when the programmer things 'widget.' Banging out hundreds of lines in vi/emacs for the same purpose does a measurably poorer job. Note it can reduce but not close. By choosing fidelity to the gui we have corresponding less fidelity to the algos and data-structures [And one may assume that someone even using a gui toolkit wants to do something with the gui and not just paint the screen] Still it seems a bit naive to suggest that building a gui by a few pointclicks is 'windows-model' and banging out hundreds of lines in vi/emacs is 'unix-model.' It does disservice to python and to unix. If a student of mine came and said: Is Python better or Unix? he would receive a dressing down. And yet more than one person here seems to think such type-wrong comparisons are ok. I find this disturbing... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: My take on 'Python Productivity tip for Java Programmer'. Could you give me more feedback?
Thomas, Thanks for the excellent suggestions. Generator is certainly an interesting subject. From what i understand, the advantage of generator is mainly about saving memory, right? (i.e. no need to create a list in memory before iterate thru it) Duck typing... Although it can be easily demonstrated, I find it hard to explain its advantages to Java developers who are so used to Interfaces. (Is it about the certainty of type info... I am not sure about their concern actually) Jython is not a possibility, but I will show them an example anyway. We can use it to write some support script, I suppose. (Off topic) Monkey patching - It is a term used by Ruby developer a lot. If it means to change a function's implementation in run-time, i think python can achieve the same, right? Is it equivalent to Mixin? Cheers On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:00 AM, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote: On 07/11/2011 05:07 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: Hi, all, Lately I am giving some presentations to my colleagues about the python language. A new internal project is coming up which will require the use of python. One of the goals of the presentations, as told by the 'sponsor' of the presentation, is to help the existing Java/Excel VBA programming team to become productive in python asap. I have a feeling that they are asking it based on their Java/Eclipse experience. By productive they are actually looking for some GUI tools that are as helpful as Eclipse. Having done Java programming before, I am thinking of answering the question this way: 1) For many of us, vi/emacs are sufficient for python development. (I used vim + ctags as my primary IDE for a very long time) 2) For a feature-rich GUI environment, we can consider pyCharm. (I was totally 'wowed' by it, and has convinced my last employer to purchased a few enterprise licenses) 3) The Python language itself is actually small and concise. The need for a full-blown IDE is less. The language itself could be counted as a part of the productive tool. If your colleagues are used to Eclipse, it's almost certainly best to continue using Eclipse, with PyDev. Don't make a big deal of the tools, just say that many Pythonista don't use a heavy IDE, mention PyDev, and, if you want to, recommend pyCharm. 4) The functional aspect of the language (e.g. map, reduce, partial) helps to make program shorter and easier to understand Don't overemphasize this. Those functions can be very useful, and using them can lead to very concise and simple code, but (big BUT) more often than not, they're overly cryptic when compared to list comprehension and generator expressions. Do make a huge case for generator expressions/list comprehension, and generators. 5) The 'battery included' standard library helps to avoid the need of complicated build tool. 6) The interactive shell helps to test out solutions in smaller units. Speaking of testing: introduce them to the doctest module. It is probably not the team is expecting. Do you have more to add? What do you think about this 'answer'? If using Jython is an option, present it! Jython will allow Java programmers to use their existing knowledge of the Java standard library. Explain, and make the case for, duck typing. While actual functional programming is, as I said, a bit out there from a Java/VBA standpoint, do show off function objects. If you know what they're going to do with Python, you should point them to relevant libraries/modules. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Tony Kong *blog:* www.ahwkong.com Don’t EVER make the mistake that you can design something better than what you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback cycle. That’s giving your intelligence *much* too much credit. - Linus Torvalds -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property setter and lambda question
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Anthony Kong anthony.hw.k...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, all, This question is in the same context of my two earlier questions. This question was raised by some python beginners, and I would like to check with the list to ensure I provide a correct answer. Here is a code snippet I used to demonstrate the keyword property: What Thomas said. But also, please note that property is a builtin, not a keyword. /pedantry Cheers, Ian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Windows, you're a customer and the developer wants to make using his application as convenient as possible for you, the customer. So the well-behavioured, good-intentioned windows devs are making sure the customer feels pampered and cozy, how nice and dandy. On Unix you don't pay and the developer couldn't care less if his application works together with application b or how much it takes you to actually get this damn thing running. Now, on the other hand, the bad, bearded, grumpy and ugly unix devs want to make the customer's life miserable, bad boys.. What a load of bull, I am a unix developer and do _care_ for my customers, being them sysadmins, end users or even windows heads, and I am sure I am not the only one thinking this way. The windows way of doing things (user friendly experience, point and click, plug and play) etc is not a bad one at all, it consists of tools to allow developers who have lesser understanding about computers to create applications that will be used by users with also little understanding about computers in general, on the other hand, unix/linus/posix devs develop applications that can potentially be used more efficiently by people with great understanding about computers in general. Both have their user base, and this is IMO the primary reason why windows is the dominant OS currently, those with little understanding about computers and technology in general far outnumber those who do. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property setter and lambda question
Thanks again for your input, Thomas.
I normally prefer
not_here = property(lambda self: self.__get_not_here(), lambda self, v:
self.__set_not_here(v))
than
not_here = property(__get_not_here, __set_not_here)
Because it allows me to have a pair getter/setter (when there is a need for
it). Use of lambda there is ensure derived class of A can provide their
custom version of getter/setter.
But decorator! Of course! Thanks for reminding me this.
In your example, where does '@not_here' come from? (Sorry, this syntax is
new to me)
Cheers
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:23 AM, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote:
On 07/11/2011 05:54 PM, Anthony Kong wrote:
Hi, all,
This question is in the same context of my two earlier questions. This
question was raised by some python beginners, and I would like to check
with the list to ensure I provide a correct answer.
Here is a code snippet I used to demonstrate the keyword *property*:
class A(object):
def __init__(self):
self.__not_here = 1
def __get_not_here(self):
return self.__not_here
def __set_not_here(self, v):
print I am called
self.__not_here = v
not_here = property(lambda self: self.__get_not_here(), lambda self,
v: self.__set_not_here(v))
# not_here = property(lambda self: self.__not_here, lambda self, v:
self.__not_here = v)
So the question: is it possible to use lambda expression at all for the
setter? (As in the last, commented-out line)
Python interpreter will throw an exception right there if I use the last
line ('SyntaxError: lambda cannot contain assignment'). I'd use pass a
setter method anyway.
What is your preferred solution?
No, a lambda can only contain an expression, not a statement. This is
not C, assignments are not expressions.
As to what I would do:
There's really no need to use lambdas at all here:
class A(object):
def __init__(self):
self.not_here = 1
def __get_not_here(self):
return self.__not_here
def __set_not_here(self, val):
self.__not_here = val
not_here = property(__get_not_here, __set_not_here)
My favourite way to create properties is of course with decorators:
class A(object):
def __init__(self):
self.not_here = 1
@property
def not_here(self):
return self.__not_here
@not_here.setter
def not_here(self, val):
self.__not_here = val
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
--
Tony Kong
*blog:* www.ahwkong.com
Don’t EVER make the mistake that you can design something better than what
you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback
cycle. That’s giving your intelligence *much* too much credit.
- Linus Torvalds
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property setter and lambda question
Good point! Need to get my terminology right. Thanks On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Anthony Kong anthony.hw.k...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, all, This question is in the same context of my two earlier questions. This question was raised by some python beginners, and I would like to check with the list to ensure I provide a correct answer. Here is a code snippet I used to demonstrate the keyword property: What Thomas said. But also, please note that property is a builtin, not a keyword. /pedantry Cheers, Ian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Tony Kong *blog:* www.ahwkong.com Don’t EVER make the mistake that you can design something better than what you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback cycle. That’s giving your intelligence *much* too much credit. - Linus Torvalds -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: My take on 'Python Productivity tip for Java Programmer'. Could you give me more feedback?
On 07/11/2011 06:42 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: Thomas, Thanks for the excellent suggestions. Generator is certainly an interesting subject. From what i understand, the advantage of generator is mainly about saving memory, right? (i.e. no need to create a list in memory before iterate thru it) When it comes to generator expression vs. list comprehension, yes. It also has the benefit that, if you're reading, say, from the network, you can do things with the content elegantly as it arrives: you can process the first bit when the last bit doesn't yet exist. Classic Python-2.3 (?) generators themselves are brilliant invention that makes it easy to create custom iterators. Java has iterators too, but nothing akin to this: def foo(): # do stuff: yield x Duck typing... Although it can be easily demonstrated, I find it hard to explain its advantages to Java developers who are so used to Interfaces. (Is it about the certainty of type info... I am not sure about their concern actually) They're used to interfaces, yes. Duck typing is little more than implicit interfaces. Python does support Java-style interfaces via ABC, but all the metaclasses and isinstance calls are needless complexity. Jython is not a possibility, but I will show them an example anyway. We can use it to write some support script, I suppose. (Off topic) Monkey patching - It is a term used by Ruby developer a lot. If it means to change a function's implementation in run-time, i think python can achieve the same, right? Is it equivalent to Mixin? Python doesn't have Ruby mixins as such. It's possible to replace functions and methods on any object, but it is almost always better (as in easier to understand and maintain) to modify the class/module you're using, or to subclass it. The only case when it's useful IMHO is when there's a bug or shortcoming in an external library you use, cannot modify, and if subclassing can't achieve the desired results. Don't show your Java programmers this. Being used to static typing, they'll be terrified, and rightly so. Cheers, Thomas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property setter and lambda question
# On 07/11/2011 06:53 PM, Anthony Kong wrote: # But decorator! Of course! Thanks for reminding me this. # # In your example, where does '@not_here' come from? (Sorry, this syntax # is new to me) class A(object): def __init__(self): self.not_here = 1 @property def not_here(self): return self.__not_here @not_here.setter def not_here(self, val): self.__not_here = val Let's translate that to non-decorator Python: class A(object): def __init__(self): self.not_here = 1 def _(self): return self.__not_here not_here = property(_) del _ def _(self, val): self.__not_here = val not_here = not_here.setter(_) del _ @not_here.setter exists because not_here.setter exists. not_here exists since we set it (when the getter/property was set). Cheers Thomas PS: are you sure the lambda self: self.__foo() trick works, with subclasses or otherwise? I haven't tested it, and I'm not saying it doesn't, but I have a feeling double-underscore name mangling might be a problem somewhere down the line? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
Ivan Kljaic, 11.07.2011 00:50: Ok Guys. I know that most of us have been expiriencing the need for a nice Gui builder tool for RAD and most of us have been googling for it a lot of times. But seriously. Why is the not even one single RAD tool for Python. Just a quick suggestion regarding the way you posed your question. It's usually better to ask if anyone knows a good tool to do a specific job (which you would describe in your post), instead of complaining about there being none. Even if you googled for it, you may have missed something because it's known under a different name or because it works differently than you expected. Also, as the answers show, your usage of the term RAD is ambiguous - not everyone seems to know what you mean with it. Stefan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property setter and lambda question
PS: are you sure the lambda self: self.__foo() trick works, with subclasses or otherwise? I haven't tested it, and I'm not saying it doesn't, but I have a feeling double-underscore name mangling might be a problem somewhere down the line? Awesome, Thomas. The trick only works if there is only *one* leading underscore in the *method* names. The following example works as I expected for the derived class B. class A(object): def __init__(self): self.__not_here = 1 def _get_not_here(self): return self.__not_here def _set_not_here(self, v): print I am called self.__not_here = v not_here = property(lambda self: self._get_not_here(), lambda self, v: self._set_not_here(v)) class B(A): def _set_not_here(self, v): print version B self.__not_here = v a = A() # print a.__not_here print a.not_here # a.set_not_here(10) a.not_here = 10 print a.not_here b = B() print b.not_here b.not_here = 70 # print version B print b.not_here -- Tony Kong *blog:* www.ahwkong.com Don’t EVER make the mistake that you can design something better than what you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback cycle. That’s giving your intelligence *much* too much credit. - Linus Torvalds -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Jul 11, 11:33 am, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: A gui-builder reduces the semantic gap by showing a widget when the programmer things 'widget.' Banging out hundreds of lines in vi/emacs for the same purpose does a measurably poorer job. It is very rare to need to bang out hundreds of lines of code to replace a mouse click interface. If properly designed a good API can compete with a GUI. In far less time than it takes me to scroll down a list of widgets, pick the appropriate one, drag it across the screen, tinker with it's absolute position, and set some attributes, i could have typed Widget(parent, **kw).geometry(blah, blah) and been done. Note it can reduce but not close. By choosing fidelity to the gui we have corresponding less fidelity to the algos and data-structures [And one may assume that someone even using a gui toolkit wants to do something with the gui and not just paint the screen] Exactly. For this very reason i have always refused to used any point- and-click GUI builders. I prefer to get up-close and personal with my code bases. Of course i use high levels of API abstraction for most of the work, however i already know what is happening in the lower levels if i need to dive down one tier. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property setter and lambda question
On 2:59 PM, Anthony Kong wrote:
snip
So the question: is it possible to use lambda expression at all for
the setter? (As in the last, commented-out line)
Python interpreter will throw an exception right there if I use the
last line ('SyntaxError: lambda cannot contain assignment'). I'd use
pass a setter method anyway.
What is your preferred solution?
Anthony, you might take a look at this alternative writeup for
property, which I placed on the Python Wiki:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/AlternativeDescriptionOfProperty
HTH,
John
--
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Re: Property setter and lambda question
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Anthony Kong anthony.hw.k...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks again for your input, Thomas. I normally prefer not_here = property(lambda self: self.__get_not_here(), lambda self, v: self.__set_not_here(v)) than not_here = property(__get_not_here, __set_not_here) Because it allows me to have a pair getter/setter (when there is a need for it). Use of lambda there is ensure derived class of A can provide their custom version of getter/setter. The .setter convenience method also makes it a bit easier for derived classes to modify getters and setters: class Base(object): def get_my_property(self): return self._my_property def set_my_property(self, value): self._my_property = value my_property = property(get_my_property, set_my_property) class Derived(Base): def set_my_property(self, value): super(Derived, self).set_my_property(convert(value)) my_property = Base.my_property.setter(set_my_property) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property setter and lambda question
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Anthony Kong anthony.hw.k...@gmail.com wrote: Awesome, Thomas. The trick only works if there is only one leading underscore in the method names. The following example works as I expected for the derived class B. class A(object): def __init__(self): self.__not_here = 1 def _get_not_here(self): return self.__not_here def _set_not_here(self, v): print I am called self.__not_here = v not_here = property(lambda self: self._get_not_here(), lambda self, v: self._set_not_here(v)) class B(A): def _set_not_here(self, v): print version B self.__not_here = v It shouldn't. You've still got the name __not_here used in both A and B, so that the B version is setting a different attribute than the A version (_B__not_here vs. _A__not_here). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property setter and lambda question
So subclass B has no access to __not_here in A after all... OK, in one of legacy Python I supported there are a lot of code floating around like this. It works OK (in term of business logic and unit test). That's probably due to luck :-) It also uses a lot of __slot__ = ['attr_a', 'attr_b'...] in class definitions to prevent accidental creation of new variables (due to typo for example). Needless to say it was first written up by programmers of static lang background who want to enforce the java/.net behavior... (private variables, variable declaration) Cheers On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 3:41 AM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Anthony Kong anthony.hw.k...@gmail.com wrote: Awesome, Thomas. The trick only works if there is only one leading underscore in the method names. The following example works as I expected for the derived class B. class A(object): def __init__(self): self.__not_here = 1 def _get_not_here(self): return self.__not_here def _set_not_here(self, v): print I am called self.__not_here = v not_here = property(lambda self: self._get_not_here(), lambda self, v: self._set_not_here(v)) class B(A): def _set_not_here(self, v): print version B self.__not_here = v It shouldn't. You've still got the name __not_here used in both A and B, so that the B version is setting a different attribute than the A version (_B__not_here vs. _A__not_here). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Tony Kong *blog:* www.ahwkong.com Don’t EVER make the mistake that you can design something better than what you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback cycle. That’s giving your intelligence *much* too much credit. - Linus Torvalds -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:56 AM, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: It is very rare to need to bang out hundreds of lines of code to replace a mouse click interface. If properly designed a good API can compete with a GUI. In far less time than it takes me to scroll down a list of widgets, pick the appropriate one, drag it across the screen, tinker with it's absolute position, and set some attributes, i could have typed Widget(parent, **kw).geometry(blah, blah) and been done. Point to ponder: Human beings tend to memorize names better than images from long lists. Most widgets have names as well as appearances (although it's arguable that the appearance is more what the widget _is_, and the name is somewhat arbitrary), although in some cases there's odd pairings - some toolkits merge Radio Button and Check Box/Button into a single object, others call them two different things. To find the widget you need, you must either scroll a long list and pick the one you want, or key in - possibly with autocompletion assistance - the name. Which is easier to memorize? Which is easier to explain? I'd always rather work with the name. And even with the most point-and-clicky of interface designers, it's normal to be able to see the names of the objects you're working with. The one time where point and click is majorly superior to scripted design is with pixel positioning of widgets. You can drag things around until you're artistically happy with them, rather than have to fiddle with the numbers in code. That's how I learned to code GUIs, but when I started doing cross-platform work and discovered rule-based layouts (where you put objects in boxes and lay out the boxes in order, etc), suddenly life got a LOT easier. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
Ok. I asked about this questio because I am working with python for the last 5 years and I am always in touch about signifigact things in Python. I am pissed of that I make my living by developing applications at work in Java an C#. My comPany would switch to python but they complained that there is not even one single gui builder or framework that can allow it to make a living from it. If you are going to say that there are also other libraries with every single one there is a significant problem that make the development painfull. About the natural selection... I'll say it with the words of pennteller:bullshit For how many years are this vui library wars going on. How many. Look. I am a open source supporter but Windows will always kick the ass of open source because the open source comunity can not make a decision. Just imagine what we would have today if the effort of development would have been used to develop one really good library. We would have kicked the ass of MS and steve balmer. The average user wants something simple and not something to program to do something. It looks that the firs linux os to realize that is successfull. I am talking about android. And the python development team is doing nothing to improve the situatio to solve this dispute that lasts for the last years by including the worthless Tk library and now upgrading it with Tix. To summarize it. It would be very helpfull for python to spread if there qould be one single good rad gui builder similar to vs or netbeAns but for python. So right now if i need to make a gui app i need to work with an applicatio that is dicontinued for the last 5 years is pretty buggy but is ok. If it would only be maintained and the libraby updated it would be great. When it comes to other application, sorry but they are just bad. Their userfriendlyness is simmilar to most of Ms products, they are user friendly but the problem is that they very wisely chose their friends. The ony worthly ones mentioning as an gui builder are boa constructor fo wx, qtDesigner with the famous licence problems why companies do not want to work with it, sharpdevelop for ironpython and netbeans for jython. Did you notice that 2 of these 4 are not for python? One is out of dTe and one has a fucked up licence. Sorry guys but there is not even one single rad gui tool for python as long as there is no serious guibuilder. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
perceptron feed forward neural networks in python
Hi, I,m new to Python and i want to study and write programs about perceptron feed forward neural networks in python. Does anyone have a good book or link for this? Thx, Bye -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: perceptron feed forward neural networks in python
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Igor Begić igor.be...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I,m new to Python and i want to study and write programs about perceptron feed forward neural networks in python. Does anyone have a good book or link for this? Try Stephen Marsland's Machine Learning: An Algorithmic Perspective. All example code is done in Python, and there's a chapter on multilayer perceptrons. The code for the book is available online here: http://www-ist.massey.ac.nz/smarsland/MLbook.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Jul 11, 1:03 pm, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
The one time where point and click is majorly superior to scripted
design is with pixel positioning of widgets. You can drag things
around until you're artistically happy with them, rather than have to
fiddle with the numbers in code.
This is true mostly for the new user of a GUI library or anyone
unlucky enough to use a poorly designed API(which leads into my next
response)
That's how I learned to code GUIs,
but when I started doing cross-platform work and discovered rule-based
layouts (where you put objects in boxes and lay out the boxes in
order, etc), suddenly life got a LOT easier.
A bit tangential however still relevant... i had always considered
Tkinter's three geometry managers (pack, place, and grid) to be
perfect. However lately i have been musing on the idea of rewriting
the pack API into something more intuitive like a linear-box-style
which then manifests itself in two forms; horizontal and vertical.
Of course you can create horizontal and vertical layouts ALREADY by
passing the side=LEFT or side=RIGHT to the pack geometry manager of
Tkinter widgets (TOP being the default BTW) but that fact isn't always
apparent to the new user as the full set of options are side={TOP|
BOTTOM|LEFT|RIGHT}.
And besides, the current API allows you to pack in all sorts of
ridiculous manners; BOTTOM, then TOP, then LEFT, then TOP, then RIGHT,
then TOP, then LEFT, then RIGHT, THEN GHEE WHIZ! Are you trying to win
the obfuscation award of the year here lad?
As we all know you only need three types of geometry management:
* Linear (horizontalvertical)
* Grid
* Absolute
Anything else is just multiplicity run a muck, again! And by
propagating such API's we also induce ignorance into our ranks. Before
we EVER consider a Python4000 we really need to clean up this
atrocious stdlib! It's like i tell people: when you keep screwing your
customers over then very soon you'll be out of buisness. Sure you can
make a decent living for a short time but the whole house of cards
comes crumbling down without the core base of repeat customers.
/food for thought
PS: I noticed that Python.org has a suggestion box now for which
modules we should be concentrating our community efforts. Well like
they say... imitation is the greatest form of flattery. And i am
quite flattered.
--
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Re: A beginning programmer
Shell scripts are ones that I do all the time, sometimes in BASH sometimes in python + system calls. A lot of the mainly for post-install setups of Ubuntu / Fedora / Arch trying to take some of the load off of my hands in a way that I actually know what is going on behind the scenes. But I'll definitely go and check out bugtrackers, I posted this same email to the kde mailing list and one of the developers told me to check out their Junior Jobs, which are things such as comment clean up, spelling errors and things like that so its an introduction to the code itself and I can ease my way in. Thanks or the quick responses guys! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 20:11:56 +0300, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote: Just a quick suggestion regarding the way you posed your question. It's usually better to ask if anyone knows a good tool to do a specific job (which you would describe in your post), instead of complaining about there being none. Opinion is divided on this… http://bash.org/?152037 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:28 AM, Ivan Kljaic iklj...@gmail.com wrote: For how many years are this vui library wars going on. How many. Look. I am a open source supporter but Windows will always kick the ass of open source because the open source comunity can not make a decision. You think Microsoft makes decisions and sticks with them? Look at Office's last few versions. They can't decide on a file format, an interface, a featureset... everything keeps changing. The difference is that in the open-source world, everything survives and can be seen as a set of alternatives, whereas in the closed-source world, it's either different versions of one program (like MS Office), or competing products (which usually means one of them dies for lack of money - or is bought out by the other). What we have is not indecision, it is options. Imagine if you went to a hardware shop and were offered only one tool: a magnet. Would you laud them for making a decision and sticking with it? No, you'd wonder what they have against hammers and screwdrivers. I like to have tools available to my use, not someone else making my decisions for me. There's competition in the open source world, too; primarily competition for developer time, a quite scarce resource. If a toolkit is not of value to people, it won't get as many dev hours, so you can often gauge popularity and usefulness by the VCS checkins. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Jul 11, 1:28 pm, Ivan Kljaic iklj...@gmail.com wrote: To summarize it. It would be very helpfull for python to spread if there qould be one single good rad gui builder similar to vs or netbeAns but for python. Well don't hold your breath friend because i have been ranting for years about the sad state of GUI libraries (not just in Python but everywhere). However if somehow we (the Python community) could grow a collective brain and build the three tiered system (that i proposed on THIS very list!) then we would have something that no one has! Yes, we would have a future! * Layer1: A 3rd party low level GUI library (owned by the python community) that will be the base from which to build the cake. A Gui library that carries the torch of true 21st century GUI's look and feel, and widgets! (aka: lots of C code here). * Layer2: An abstraction of Layer1 (written in 100% python) for the python std library. (think PythonGUI) * Layer3: A Graphical GUI builder front end for this expansive and beautiful library (so the kids can play along too). Yes, i DID mention a Graphical Builder. Even though i'd never use one, i DO realize the importance of such tools to this community. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why isn't there a good RAD Gui tool for python
On 07/11/2011 02:59 PM, Elias Fotinis wrote: On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 20:11:56 +0300, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote: Just a quick suggestion regarding the way you posed your question. It's usually better to ask if anyone knows a good tool to do a specific job (which you would describe in your post), instead of complaining about there being none. Opinion is divided on this… http://bash.org/?152037 There is another way: http://bash.org/?684045 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:52 AM, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: As we all know you only need three types of geometry management: * Linear (horizontalvertical) * Grid * Absolute I contend that Absolute is unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Grid and Box (linear) are the most flexible, but there are others that come in handy too. GTK has quite a few [1] including a scrollable, a notebook, hor/vert panes (where the user can adjust the size between the two panes), and so on. Once again, Ranting Rick is asking for all tools to be destroyed except his preferred minimal set. I think this strongly suggests that Rick is, in point of fact, either brain something'd (keeping this G-rated) or an orangutan, because the ultimate end of his logic is coding in either Brain-*[2] or Ook [3]. ChrisA [1] http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/LayoutContainers.html [2] http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/ [3] http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On 2011.07.11 02:16 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: You think Microsoft makes decisions and sticks with them? Look at Office's last few versions. They can't decide on a file format, an interface, a featureset... everything keeps changing. Of course they do. They've decided to change things in each major version to give people a reason to pay for the new version when there's nothing wrong with the old one (at least nothing that's been fixed in the new version :P ). Of course, MS is not the only software company that employs such a strategy... - -- CPython 3.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17592 | Thunderbird 5.0 PGP/GPG Public Key ID: 0xF88E034060A78FCB -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAwAGBQJOG1ORAAoJEPiOA0Bgp4/LF7oH/Al6RTGIQ2hAKztEiob/oXnz +eV8HZ0K+OBpd/FtRBkiMTJaQm5LU1jKPdwsf/RhF7UU69FfCQNfhzW5LsdMMQYE +lh4YwbJ8cXVEkCgdkf2zh7BElJ9/95nYedd64Ev4sG+QECvLFYoeql5mjcO45S9 V+iElE9y4FsPr1E0tC2BhFPQuiRMRIIOjQQ7UKP28dnIOKf6u9QM4UdN4WYKOy+n jgXRaFtstA3YtbzqmKfVoj9Go8SstF71XnGjSzAQeq4j96IfbvW/PTaPhkvyfB7y tHG861oW19orvZ1ESJue/lvd/KQ7rRDRn7IjH+fKvKuYlgjM3+Q7hR7hcXi97Wg= =a5A/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 11 Jul, 20:28, Ivan Kljaic iklj...@gmail.com wrote: To summarize it. It would be very helpfull for python to spread if there qould be one single good rad gui builder similar to vs or netbeAns but for python. So right now if i need to make a gui app i need to work with an applicatio that is dicontinued for the last 5 years is pretty buggy but is ok. http://wxformbuilder.org/ Shut up. The ony worthly ones mentioning as an gui builder are boa constructor fo wx, qtDesigner with the famous licence problems why companies do not want to work with it, sharpdevelop for ironpython and netbeans for jython. Did you notice that 2 of these 4 are not for python? One is out of dTe and one has a fucked up licence. Qt and PySide have LGPL license. QtCreator can be used with Python (there is a Python uic). SharpDevelop has an IronPython GUI builder. Boa Constructor is abandonware, yes. Is it just me, or did I count to three? And yes, you forgot: Visual Studio for IronPython wxGLADE for wxPython GLADE for PyGTK BlackAdder for Python and Qt SpecTcl for Tkinter That's eight. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 11 Jul, 21:58, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote: That's eight. Sorry, nine ;) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 11 Jul, 20:28, Ivan Kljaic iklj...@gmail.com wrote: The ony worthly ones mentioning as an gui builder are boa constructor fo wx, qtDesigner with the famous licence problems why companies do not want to work with it, sharpdevelop for ironpython and netbeans for jython. There is wxFormBuilder for wxPython, I suppose you've missed it. Of three GUI builders for wxPython (wxFormBuilder, wxGLADE, Boa Constructor), you managed to pick the lesser. The license for Qt is LGPL, the same as for wxWidgets. Both have LGPL Python bindings (PySide and wxPython), so why is Qt's license more scary than wxWidgets? I have an idea why you think QtCreator cannot be used with Python. If you had actually used it, you would have noticed that the XML output file can be compiled by PyQt and PySide. SharpDevelop for IronPython means you've missed Microsoft Visual Studio. Bummer. And I am not going to mention IBM's alternative to NetBeans, as I am sure you can Google it. And did you forget abpout GLADE, or do you disregard GTK (PyGTK) as a toolkit completely? Regards, Sturla -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On Monday, 11 July 2011 00:50:31 UTC+2, Ivan Kljaic wrote: But seriously. Why is the not even one single RAD tool for Python. I simply do not see any reasons why there isn't anything. Please help me understand it. Any insights? The set of reasons that nobody else has made one is *exactly* the same set of reasons that you're not going to make one. Note that if you prove me wrong, and make one, I still win ;) I am in the somewhat interesting position of having worked continuously with both Python and Delphi (yes, formerly by Borland) for the last decade. I like to think I use both languages/tools idiomatically. I used to lament not having a GUI builder like the Delphi IDE for Python, but I don't any more. Use the right tool for the job, and all that old-timer stuff is starting to make sense. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 11 Jul, 21:58, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote: http://wxformbuilder.org/ This Demo is using C++, it works the same with Python (wxPython code is generated similarly). http://zamestnanci.fai.utb.cz/~bliznak/screencast/wxfbtut1/wxFBTut1_controller.swf Sturla -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 7/11/11 2:28 PM, Ivan Kljaic wrote: Did you notice that 2 of these 4 are not for python? One is out of dTe and one has a fucked up licence. Sorry guys but there is not even one single rad gui tool for python as long as there is no serious guibuilder. One reason there hasn't been much demand for a GUI builder is that, in many cases, it's just as simpler or simpler to code a GUI by hand. Certainly with the Tkinter library this is trivial. The only GUI builder I've ever used that was arguably superior to hand-coding is Interface Builder, on Mac OS X, and it's truly needed there. (The Cocoa frameworks don't really lend themselves to hand-coding.) Otherwise I find GUI builders inflexible, and more trouble than they are worth. -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 11 Jul, 22:35, Kevin Walzer k...@codebykevin.com wrote: One reason there hasn't been much demand for a GUI builder is that, in many cases, it's just as simpler or simpler to code a GUI by hand. Often a GUI builder is used as a bad replacement for sketch-pad and pencil. With layout managers (cf. wxWidgets, Qt, Swing, SWT, Tkinter) it is easier to sketch and code than with common MS Windows toolkits (eg. MFC, .NET Forms, Visual Basic, Delphi) which use absolute positioning and anchors. Using a GUI builder with layout managers might actually feel awkward. But with absolute positioning and anchors, there is no way to avoid a GUI builder. That said, we have good GUI builders for all the common Python GUI toolkits. Sometimes a mock-up GUI designer like DesignerVista might help. Yes, and actually hiring a graphical designer helps too. Sturla -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: perceptron feed forward neural networks in python
On 11 Jul, 20:47, Ken Watford kwatford+pyt...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Igor Begić igor.be...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I,m new to Python and i want to study and write programs about perceptron feed forward neural networks in python. Does anyone have a good book or link for this? Try Stephen Marsland's Machine Learning: An Algorithmic Perspective. All example code is done in Python, and there's a chapter on multilayer perceptrons. The code for the book is available online here:http://www-ist.massey.ac.nz/smarsland/MLbook.html This is quite simple with tools like NumPy and SciPy. E.g. use numpy.dot (level-3 BLAS matrix multiply) for the forward pass, and scipy.optimize.leastsq (MINPACK Levenberg-Marquardt) for the training. Sturla -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Virtual functions are virtually invisible!
On Jul 11, 9:41 am, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:42 PM, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: This mandate must be handed down from the gods who reside on Mount REFUSE-E-OUS to RECOGNIZE-E-OUS a major PROBLEM-O-MOUS I assume you're trying to reference Mount Olympus where the Greek gods live, but I'm left thinking more of Mount Vesuvius... possibly not the best reference for what you're saying. Actually no i was purposely implying Mt. Vesuvius. You know, the VOLCANO that erupted and left poor Pompeii in ruins? Here is some text from the wiki verbatim: Mount Vesuvius is best known for its eruption in AD 79 that led to the burying and destruction of the Roman cities of Pompeii and Herculaneum. They were never rebuilt, although surviving townspeople and probably looters did undertake extensive salvage work after the destructions. I modified the text slightly to reflect our current conundrum: Guido and Pydev are best known for their absence around 2000, which led to the burying and destruction of comp.lang.Python (and the community as a whole) in ash clowns. They were never rebuilt, although a few surviving good townspeople did undertake extensive attacks from trolls after the destruction. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Function docstring as a local variable
On Sunday, July 10, 2011 4:06:27 PM UTC-7, Corey Richardson wrote: Excerpts from Carl Banks's message of Sun Jul 10 18:59:02 -0400 2011: print __doc__ Python 2.7.1 (r271:86832, Jul 8 2011, 22:48:46) [GCC 4.4.5] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. def foo(): ... Docstring ... print __doc__ ... foo() None What does yours do? It prints the module docstring, same as your example does. You did realize that was the question I was answering, right? Carl Banks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to compile on OS X PPC? was: Re: [RELEASED] Python 3.2
In article nad-61009a.17150922022...@news.gmane.org, Ned Deily n...@acm.org wrote: In article 4d640175$0$81482$e4fe5...@news.xs4all.nl, Irmen de Jong ir...@-nospam-xs4all.nl wrote: However, I'm having trouble compiling a framework build from source on Mac OS 10.5.8 on PowerPC. No matter what I try (gcc 4.0, gcc 4.2, different compiler options), the compilation aborts with the following error: Undefined symbols: ___fixdfdi, referenced from: _rlock_acquire in libpython3.2m.a(_threadmodule.o) _lock_PyThread_acquire_lock in libpython3.2m.a(_threadmodule.o) ___moddi3, referenced from: _PyThread_acquire_lock_timed in libpython3.2m.a(thread.o) _acquire_timed in libpython3.2m.a(_threadmodule.o) ___divdi3, referenced from: _PyThread_acquire_lock_timed in libpython3.2m.a(thread.o) _acquire_timed in libpython3.2m.a(_threadmodule.o) ld: symbol(s) not found /usr/bin/libtool: internal link edit command failed Unfortunately, this is a variation of an old issue that hasn't yet been fixed (http://bugs.python.org/issue1099). UPDATE: this problem has been fixed in the newly-release Python 3.2.1. On a 10.4 or 10.5 PPC machine, you should now be able to successfully build a PPC-only 3.2 framework with just: ./configure --enable-framework ; make On 10.5, you may want to use: ./configure --enable-framework MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.5 ; make -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Read SAS files with Python?
Apologies in advance if this is already a time-worn question! We are essentially a SAS shop and use Base SAS, Enterprise Guide and E-Miner for statistical and predictive modeling purposes, often working on big datasets (30M rows of 100+ columns). There are some applications for which we have had to craft Python solutions, such as interfacing with ArcView to automate the generation of map overelays from shapefiles, but the vast majority of our work is well-handled by our SAS suite. However, in the interest of expanding our skillset (and hedging our bets), we are investigating whether anyone has yet developed a Python module that can read SAS datasets directly? Thank you! RJones -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem compiling Python 3.2 in 32bit on Snow Leopard
In article nad-6eca50.22055001032...@dough.gmane.org, Ned Deily n...@acm.org wrote: In article 8t5vunfca...@mid.individual.net, Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: Attempting to compile Python 3.2 in 32-bit mode on MacOSX 10.6.4 I get: Undefined symbols: ___moddi3, referenced from: _PyThread_acquire_lock_timed in libpython3.2m.a(thread.o) _acquire_timed in libpython3.2m.a(_threadmodule.o) ___divdi3, referenced from: _PyThread_acquire_lock_timed in libpython3.2m.a(thread.o) _acquire_timed in libpython3.2m.a(_threadmodule.o) ld: symbol(s) not found /usr/bin/libtool: internal link edit command failed Any suggestions? http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/685151 UPDATE: this problem has been fixed in the newly-released Python 3.2.1. On OX X 10.6, you should be able to build a 10.6 32-bit-only framework with: ./configure --enable-framework CFLAGS=-arch i386 \ LDFLAGS=-arch i386 MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.6 -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Newbie help - Programming the Semantic Web with Python
This didn't seem to work either. I was getting errors the number of arguments expected being two, when I changed to def add (self, args): I seem to remember that if I removed the parentheses around sub, pred, obj, it worked. I thought that was how it worked. What is strange is that this is not reported as an error on the books page. So, it should have worked as is with either Python 2.7, which I have installed or Python 3.0 which I also have installed. So, it seems like it would have worked as is for one of the versions of Python, but it doesn't seem to work that way. I'll paste a link to where the code exists. Could someone help me figure it out please. The code is here on the site: http://semprog.com/content/the-book/ I wonder if I can also try it out from the IDLE interactive session. Thanks, Bruce On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Bruce Whealton br...@whealton.info wrote: problem with is this line: def add(self, (sub, pred, obj)): I think the problem is with the parentheses before the sub. I removed those and that seemed to fix that error or make it go away. I don’t remember how I figured that out, It should be on the Errata page for sure. Then it has a problem with this line: print list(g.triples((None, None, None))) If I was using python 3, it would require () around the thing that is going to be printed, right? Maybe python 2.7 doesn’t like this line for the same reason. The issue there is with tuple unpacking. To match the older syntax, don't touch the call, but change the definition thus: def add(self, args): (sub, pred, obj)=args Or, of course, simply list the arguments directly, rather than in a tuple; but that requires changing every call (if it's a small program that may not be a problem). You're right about needing parentheses around the print() call; in Python 2 it's a statement, but in Python 3, print is a function like any other. Regarding the module search path, this may help: http://docs.python.org/dev/tutorial/modules.html#the-module-search-path Chris Angelico -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: perceptron feed forward neural networks in python
thx, bye On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ken Watford kwatford+pyt...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Igor Begić igor.be...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I,m new to Python and i want to study and write programs about perceptron feed forward neural networks in python. Does anyone have a good book or link for this? Try Stephen Marsland's Machine Learning: An Algorithmic Perspective. All example code is done in Python, and there's a chapter on multilayer perceptrons. The code for the book is available online here: http://www-ist.massey.ac.nz/smarsland/MLbook.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: parsing packets
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Thomas Rachel nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa...@spamschutz.glglgl.de wrote: Am 10.07.2011 22:59 schrieb Littlefield, Tyler: Hello all: I'm working on a server that will need to parse packets sent from a client, and construct it's own packets. Are these packets sent as separate UDP packets or embedded in a TCP stream? In the first case, you already have packets and only have to parse them. In a stream, you first have to split them up. Aren't UDP packets subject to fragmentation and aggregation? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: parsing packets
On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Littlefield, Tyler ty...@tysdomain.comwrote: Hello all: I'm working on a server that will need to parse packets sent from a client, and construct it's own packets. I like to use this module (I wrote while in the employ of UCI, so it's under a UCI - BSDesque - license, but they've given redistribution permission so long as the module is under their license) to extract pieces from a data source with varied field lengths: http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~dstromberg/bufsock.html I use it often with TCP. For UDP, I'd probably catentate the blocks recieved and then pull data back out of the aggregate using bufsock - to deal with the possibility of fragmentation or aggregation in transit. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 2011-07-10, Ivan Kljaic iklj...@gmail.com wrote: a lot of times. But seriously. Why is the not even one single RAD tool for Python. I mean what happened to boa constructor that it stopped developing. I simply do not see any reasons why there isn't anything. I prefer spec-generators (almost all generate XML these days) like QtDesigner to code-generators like Boa. I've only seen one good argument for code generation, and that's to generate code for a layout to see how it's done. But code could always be generated automatically from a spec. I already have an editor I like, I don't see the need to tie GUI layout to a code editor. If you want something with more sophisticated Python specific features, there's PyDev. Dave Cook -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: An interesting beginner question: why we need colon at all in the python language?
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Sébastien Volle sebastien.vo...@gmail.com wrote: Could it have been made optional, like the trailing comma in list declaration? Cobra makes the colons optional, so probably yes. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list A little redundancy in a computer language facilitates error checking - much like the bits of redundancy in one's English make written and voice communication less error prone. But strictly speaking, the colon could've been left out. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Please Help with vertical histogram
Please kindly help- i have a project where I need to plot dict results
as a histogram. I just can't get the y- axis to print right. May
someone please help? I have pulled my hair for the past two weeks, I
am a few steps ahead, but stuck for now.
def histo(his_dict = {1:16, 2:267, 3:267, 4:169, 5:140, 6:112, 7:99,
8:68, 9:61, 10:56, 11:35, 12:13, 13:9, 14: 7, 15:2}):
x_max = 17 #get maximum value of x
y_max = 400 #get minimum value of y
# print each line
print ('^')
for j in range(y_max, 0, -100):# draw
s = '|'
for i in range(1, x_max):
if i in his_dict.keys() and his_dict[i] = j:
s += '***'
else:
s += ' '
print (s)
print (j)
# print x axis
s = '+'
for i in range(1, x_max):
s += '-+-'
s += ''
print (s)
# print indexes
s = ' '
for i in range(1, x_max):
s += ' %d ' % i
print (s)
histo()
# I need it to look like this:
400 -|
|
|
|
|
300 -|
|
| **
| **
| **
200 -| **
| **
| *
|
|
100 -| ***
| **
|
| ***
|*
0 -+-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-
| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
Chris Angelico wrote: either brain something'd (keeping this G-rated) or an orangutan, There's a certain librarian who might take issue with your lumping orangutans in with the brain-something'd... -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Please Help with vertical histogram
I have a histogram script in Python at
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/svn/histogram/trunk/ It's under a UCI
(BSD-like) license. Feel free to use it or borrow ideas from it.
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Cathy James nambo...@gmail.com wrote:
Please kindly help- i have a project where I need to plot dict results
as a histogram. I just can't get the y- axis to print right. May
someone please help? I have pulled my hair for the past two weeks, I
am a few steps ahead, but stuck for now.
def histo(his_dict = {1:16, 2:267, 3:267, 4:169, 5:140, 6:112, 7:99,
8:68, 9:61, 10:56, 11:35, 12:13, 13:9, 14: 7, 15:2}):
x_max = 17 #get maximum value of x
y_max = 400 #get minimum value of y
# print each line
print ('^')
for j in range(y_max, 0, -100):# draw
s = '|'
for i in range(1, x_max):
if i in his_dict.keys() and his_dict[i] = j:
s += '***'
else:
s += ' '
print (s)
print (j)
# print x axis
s = '+'
for i in range(1, x_max):
s += '-+-'
s += ''
print (s)
# print indexes
s = ' '
for i in range(1, x_max):
s += ' %d ' % i
print (s)
histo()
# I need it to look like this:
400 -|
|
|
|
|
300 -|
|
| **
| **
| **
200 -| **
| **
| *
|
|
100 -| ***
| **
|
| ***
|*
0 -+-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-
| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
Ivan Kljaic iklj...@gmail.com writes: My comPany would switch to python but they complained that there is not even one single gui builder or framework that can allow it to make a living from it. That response from your company is a non sequitur. What does “one single gui builder or framework” have to do with “allow it to make a living from it”? Evidently many organisations are making a living with Python, so that statement is just false. For how many years are this vui library wars going on. How many. Why see it as a war that must have one clear winner? You have options. I am a open source supporter but Windows will always kick the ass of open source because the open source comunity can not make a decision. Different people make different decisions. If you want a monolithic organisation that makes a single decision for everyone, you don't want software freedom. To summarize it. It would be very helpfull for python to spread Please find a different language to “fix”; Python is spreading quite successfully. -- \ “I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate | `\ those who do. And for the people who like country music, | _o__)denigrate means ‘put down’.” —Bob Newhart | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Finding duplicated photo
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Fulvio call_me_not_...@yahoo.it wrote: I found that isn't python 3 code :( It's written in python 2.6. Then the code should go into some other program to allow actions on those pictures which are matching each other. Am I right? The leverages PIL to get the job done. The performance from PIL's quite poor, though not precisely measured, most of the time was spent on resizing pictures with PIL. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 12 Jul, 01:33, Dave Cook davec...@nowhere.net wrote: I prefer spec-generators (almost all generate XML these days) like QtDesigner to code-generators like Boa. I've only seen one good argument for code generation, and that's to generate code for a layout to see how it's done. But code could always be generated automatically from a spec. wxFormBuilder will produce C++, Python and XML. Pick the one you like! The advantage of using XML in tools like GLADE, QtCreator, and more recently Visual C#, is separation of layout and program logic. The problem with code generators like Visual C++ or Delphi was the mixing of generated and hand-written code. However, there is no real advantage over using XML instead of C++ or Python: C++ and Python code are also structured text. One structured text is as good as another: There once was a man who had a problem. He said: 'I know, I will use XML.' Now he had two problems. When using wxFormBuilder, the generated .cpp, .h, .py or .xrc files are not to be edited. To write event handlers, we inherit from the generated classes. Thus, program view (generated code) and program control (hand-written code) are kept in separate source files. Because C++ and Python have multiple inheritance, we can even separate the program control into multiple classes. What we instantate is a class that inherit the designed dialog class (generated) and event handler classes (hand-written). Therefore, XML has no advantage over Python in the case of wxFormBuilder. XML just adds a second layer of complexity we don't need: I.e. not only must we write the same program logic, we must also write code to manage the XML resources. Hence, we are left with two problems instead of one. This is not special for wxFormBuilder: In many cases when working with Python (and to somewhat lesser extent C++), one is left to conclude that XML serves no real purpose. Sturla -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wgy isn't there a good RAD Gui tool fo python
On 12 Jul, 01:33, Dave Cook davec...@nowhere.net wrote: I prefer spec-generators (almost all generate XML these days) like QtDesigner to code-generators like Boa. I've only seen one good argument for code generation, and that's to generate code for a layout to see how it's done. But code could always be generated automatically from a spec. wxFormBuilder will produce C++, Python and XML. Pick the one you like! The advantage of using XML in tools like GLADE, QtCreator, and more recently Visual C#, is separation of layout and program logic. The problem with code generators like Visual C++ or Delphi was the mixing of generated and hand-written code. However, there is no real advantage over using XML instead of C++ or Python: C++ and Python code are also structured text. One structured text is as good as another: There once was a man who had a problem. He said: 'I know, I will use XML.' Now he had two problems. When using wxFormBuilder, the generated .cpp, .h, .py or .xrc files are not to be edited. To write event handlers, we inherit from the generated classes. Thus, program view (generated code) and program control (hand-written code) are kept in separate source files. Because C++ and Python have multiple inheritance, we can even separate the program control into multiple classes. What we instantate is a class that inherit the designed dialog class (generated) and event handler classes (hand-written). Therefore, XML has no advantage over Python in the case of wxFormBuilder. XML just adds a second layer of complexity we don't need: I.e. not only must we write the same program logic, we must also write code to manage the XML resources. Hence, we are left with two problems instead of one. This is not special for wxFormBuilder: In many cases when working with Python (and to somewhat lesser extent C++), one is left to conclude that XML serves no real purpose. Sturla -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Lisp refactoring puzzle
2011-07-11 On Jul 11, 6:51 am, jvt vincent.to...@gmail.com wrote: I might as well toss my two cents in here. Xah, I don't believe that the functional programming idiom demands that we construct our entire program out of compositions and other combinators without ever naming anything. That is much more the province of so-called function- level programming languages like APL/J and to a more limited extent concatenative languages where data (but not code) is mostly left without names. Functional programming, in my mind, is about identifying reproducibly useful abstractions, _naming them_, and constructing other abstractions from them. Your piece of code above probably needs to be factored out into named pieces so that the composition is more sensible. If a piece of code isn't comprehensible, it might be because it isn't using the right abstractions in the right way, not because the notion of functional programming is itself problematic. One might instead provide a nightmare nest of procedural code and claim that procedural programming has problems. Of course, this particular kind of problem might be less common in procedural code, since it depends heavily on naming and side effecting values, but it isn't hard to find procedural code with a long list of operations and namings wherein the chose names are random or otherwise unrelated to the problem domain. My adviser in grad school used to name variables after pieces of furniture in dutch, but that didn't cause me to impeach the _notion_ of procedural code. hi jvt, of course, you are right. But i wasn't criticising functional programing in anyway. was just putting out my tale as a caution, to those of us — e.g. academic scheme lispers and haskell types — who are perpetually mangling their code for the ultimate elegant constructs. but speaking on this now... as you guys may know, i was a naive master of Mathematica while being absolute illiterate in computer science or any other lang. (see 〈Xah Lee's Computing Experience (Impression Of Lisp from Mathematica)〉 @ http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/xah_comp_exp.html ) When i didn't know anything about lisp, i thought lisp would be similar, or even better, as a highlevel lang in comparison to Mathematica. In retrospect now, i was totally wrong. lisp, or scheme lisp, is a magnitude more highlevel in comparison to C or C derivatives such as C++, Java. However, in comparison to Mathematica, it's one magnitude low level. (it pains me to see lisp experts here talking about cons and macros all day, even bigshot names such as one Paul Graham and in lisp books praising lisp macros. Quite ridiculous.) over the years, i had curiosity whether perhaps ML/OCaml, Haskell, would be equivalent high-level as Mathematica as i thought. Unfortunately, my study of them didn't went far. (best result is my incomplete 〈OCaml Tutorial〉 @ http://xahlee.org/ocaml/ocaml.html ) Am not qualified to comment on this, but i think that even Haskell, OCaml, are still quite low in comparison to Mathematica. it's funny, in all these supposedly modern high-level langs, they don't provide even simple list manipulation functions such as union, intersection, and the like. Not in perl, not in python, not in lisps. (sure, lib exists, but it's a ride in the wild) It's really exceedingly curious to me. And it seems that lang authors or its users, have all sorts of execuse or debate about whether those should be builtin if you force them to answer. (i.e. they don't get it) While, we see here regularly questions about implementing union etc with follow up of wild answers and re-invention the thousandth time. Of course, Mathematica has Union, Intersection, and a host of others some 20 years ago, and today it has a complete set of combinatorics functions as *builtin* functions (as opposed to add-on libs of second- rate quality). (this is not a question. No need to suggest some possible reasons why lang might not want to have a whole set of list manipulation builtin. You (the lisper/python/perl regulars and other lang fans) are a complete idiot, that's what i'm saying. COMPLETE IDIOT. (actually, this is not surprising, since genius and true thinkers are rare and few. (such as myself. As they say, beyond the times))) i also wondered, if Mathematica is truely a magnitude higher level than lisp, why we don't see any computer scientists talk about it? (of course there are, but almost non-existant in comparison to, say, academic publications on Scheme, Haskell, even Java) I think the reason is social, again. Proprietary langs isn't a revue of academicians, together with the fact that Stephen Wolfram goes about as if the entire science of computer science comprises of himself. Want Mathematica? Pay $2k+. recently i spent several days studying and watching a talk by Douglas Crockford. it is incredible. He went thru history, and explained, how it is the very people in computing community who laughed and stifled all the
Questions about os.waitpid(pid, options) on windows
It seems that waitpid take process handle instead of process id as the first parameter on Windows. On Unices platform, the first parameter is process id. This interface is a little bit confusing. What's the purpose for such a design? Thanks a lot, Fan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why isn't there a good RAD Gui tool for python
lol isnt billy mays dead On 7/11/11, Billy Mays no...@nohow.com wrote: On 07/11/2011 02:59 PM, Elias Fotinis wrote: On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 20:11:56 +0300, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote: Just a quick suggestion regarding the way you posed your question. It's usually better to ask if anyone knows a good tool to do a specific job (which you would describe in your post), instead of complaining about there being none. Opinion is divided on this… http://bash.org/?152037 There is another way: http://bash.org/?684045 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python bug? Indexing to matrices
Should the following line work for defining a matrix with zeros?
c= [[0]*col]*row
where col is the number of columns in the matrix and row is of
course the number of rows.
If this a valid way of initializing a matrix in Python 3.2.1, then it
appears to me that a bug surfaces in Python when performing this line:
c[i][j] = c[i][j] + a[i][k] * b[k][j]
It writes to the jth column rather than just the i,j cell.
I'm new at Python and am not sure if I'm just doing something wrong if
there is really a bug in Python. The script works fine if I
initialize the matrix with numpy instead:
c = np.zeros((row,col))
So, I know my matrix multiply algorithm is correct (I know I could use
numpy for matrix multiplication, this was just to learn Python).
I've attached my source code below.
TIA,
David
-
#!python
# dot.py - Matrix multiply in matricies: [c] = [a] * [b]
import numpy as np
a = [[3, 7], [-2, 1], [2, 4]]
b = [[2, 1, -3, 1], [4, 3, -2, 3]]
print(a = {0}, b = {1}.format(a,b))
row = len(a)
col = len(b[0])
#c = np.zeros((row,col))# - Correct results when using this
line
c= [[0]*col]*row# - Incorrect results when using
this line
print(c)
for i in range(row):# Index into rows of [a]
for j in range(col):# Index into columns of [b]
c[i][j] = 0
for k in range(len(b)): # Index into columns of [a] and
rows of [b]
print(c[{0}][{1}] + a[{2}][{3}] * b[{4}][{5}] = {6} +
{7} *
{8}.format(i,j,i,k,k,j,c[i][j],a[i][k],b[k][j]))
c[i][j] = c[i][j] + a[i][k] * b[k][j]
print(c)
--
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Re: Python bug? Indexing to matrices
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:39 PM, David davidb...@gmail.com wrote: Should the following line work for defining a matrix with zeros? c= [[0]*col]*row where col is the number of columns in the matrix and row is of course the number of rows. Nope. See the FAQ: http://docs.python.org/faq/programming.html#how-do-i-create-a-multidimensional-list Cheers, Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
