Re: Debugging memory leaks
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com writes: ... Right. Everything needs to be scaled. Everything needs to be in perspective. Losing 1 kilobit per day is indeed trivial; even losing one kilobyte per day, which is what I assume you meant :), isn't significant. But it's not usually per day, it's per leaking action. Suppose your web browser leaks 1024 usable bytes of RAM every HTTP request. Do you know how much that'll waste per day? CAN you know? What I suggested to the original poster was that *he* checks whether *his* server leaks a really significant amount of memory -- and starts to try a (difficult) memory leak analysis only in this case. If he can restart his server periodically, this may make the analysis unnecessary. I also reported that I have undertaken such an analysis several times and what helped me in these cases. I know - by experience - how difficult those analysis are. And there have been cases, where I failed despite much effort: the systems I work with are huge, consisting of thousands of components, developed by various independent groups, using different languages (Python, C, Java); each of those components may leak memory; most components are foreign to me. Surely, you understand that in such a context a server restart in the night of a week end (leading to a service disruption of a few seconds) seems an attractive alternative to trying to locate the leaks. Things would change drastically if the leak is big enough to force a restart every few hours. But big leaks are *much* easier to detect and locate than small leaks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Memory usage steadily going up while pickling objects
Giorgos Tzampanakis giorgos.tzampana...@gmail.com writes: ... So it seems that the pickle module does keep some internal cache or something like that. This is highly unlikely: the ZODB (Zope object database) uses pickle (actually, it is cPickle, the C implementation of the pickle module) for serialization. The ZODB is used in long running Zope processes. Should pickling cause significant memory leackage, this would have been observed (and reported). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:18:53 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: In both situations we still have 2 memory units holding values, so hows that different? Consider that each named variable is a pointer to a memory location that holds a value. This is one of the ways in that a typed compiled language and an untyped scripted language may differ in their treatment of data items (or variables). Consider the following C and Python code: C: int a, b; b = 6; a = b; In C, this places the numeric value 6 into the memory location identified by the variable b, then copies the value from the location pointed to by b into the location pointed to by a. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to another memory location also containing the value 6 Python: b = 6 a = b In Python, this first puts the value 6 in in a memory location and points b at that memory location, then makes a point to the same memory location as b points to. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to the same memory location Do you understand the difference? -- Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 22:38:38 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: PLEASE take a look, its not a huge code First, you need to start writing your code to less than 80 columns if you're going to keep posting it to usenet. I'm sure I'm not the only person who can't be bothered to unwrap it. Secondly, the code you posted only tells part of the story - it's obviously missing either relevant imports or defined functions or possibly both. Third, it would help to see examples of (a) what you expect it to generate, and (b) what it actually generates. You obviously have a web server available to you - you could put both code (just append .txt to the filename) and screenshots from your browser there with no difficulty at all and just include links. -- Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On 16/6/2013 9:32 πμ, Denis McMahon wrote: On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:18:53 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: In both situations we still have 2 memory units holding values, so hows that different? Consider that each named variable is a pointer to a memory location that holds a value. This is one of the ways in that a typed compiled language and an untyped scripted language may differ in their treatment of data items (or variables). Consider the following C and Python code: C: int a, b; b = 6; a = b; In C, this places the numeric value 6 into the memory location identified by the variable b, then copies the value from the location pointed to by b into the location pointed to by a. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to another memory location also containing the value 6 Python: b = 6 a = b In Python, this first puts the value 6 in in a memory location and points b at that memory location, then makes a point to the same memory location as b points to. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to the same memory location Do you understand the difference? Yes and thank you for explaining in detail to me. So Python economies(saves) system's memory. Good job Python! There is no point having 2 variables point to 2 different memory locations as C does since both of those memory locations are supposed to contain the same value! One thing that i want you guys to confirm to me: a and b in both of the languages mentioned are pointers to memory locations which hold a value. A pointer = a variable that has as a value a memory address a variable = a memory address that has as a value the actual value we want to store. But since pointer itself is a memory location that holds as a value the address of another memory location(by definition) that in it's own turn holds the actual value we want stored? So the scheme would look like this in Python: memory address = number 6 memory address = memory address value that stores number 6 (pointer a) memory address = memory address value that stores number 6 (pointer b) So having in mind the above. The memory address that actually stores number 6 have no name at all and the only way to access it's value is by printing the variables a or b? Doesn't that memory address have a name itself? if someone wants the memory address of the pointer's a or b, how can he access it? in C it was somethign like a and b And in Python internally shall i imagine two tables that has associations of: variable's_name - memory_address - actual value And ALL 3 of them are actually bits(1s and 0s) Is this how the thing works? -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On 16/6/2013 4:55 πμ, Tim Roberts wrote: Nick the Gr33k supp...@superhost.gr wrote: Because Python lets you use arbitrary values in a Boolean context, the net result is exactly the same. What is an arbitrary value? don even knwo what arbitrary means literally in English. In a long series separated by or, the expression is true as soon as one of the subexpressions is true. So, as a short-circuit, Python simply returns the first one that has a true value. So, for example, these all return 'abcd': 'abcd' or 'defg' or 'hjkl' == 'abcd' 0 or 'abcd' or 'defg' or 'hjkl' == 'abcd' 0 or None or 'abcd' or 'defg' or 'hjkl' == 'abcd' Similarly, and returns the first false value, or if they're all true, the last value. Why? Because it can't know whether the whole expression is true unless it looks at every value. So: 0 and 1 and 'what' == 0 1 and 0 and 'what' == 0 1 and None and 0 == None 1 and 1 and 'what' == 'what' Thank you Tim. I decided that it's better to thing it through as: The argument being returned in an and or or expression is the one that *determined' the evaluation of the expression. And actually what's being returned is not the argument itself but the argument's value. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Greek mailing list [was Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?]
On 16/6/2013 8:06 πμ, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Nikos, Have you considered subscribing to this? http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-greece Possibly some of these concepts will be easier for you to understand if explained to you in your native language. Or you might be able to join a local Users Group who can help you. Thank you Steven i don't want to enter there as mail but wish to find it as a newsgroups, which i tried to subscribe but TB couldn't find it. Also i have no trouble understand you guys in English or express myself here. I like English. And i'm under the impression that foreigners are more helpful from Greeks. At least that's what experience have tought me in a local linux group for many years. I prefer staying here but i can also subscribe there as well if you teel me what the groups name. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?
On 16/6/2013 10:23 πμ, Denis McMahon wrote: On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 22:38:38 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: PLEASE take a look, its not a huge code First, you need to start writing your code to less than 80 columns if you're going to keep posting it to usenet. I'm sure I'm not the only person who can't be bothered to unwrap it. TB behaves for me the same way. Any line 80 chars gets a newline. Why this is happening? Why not post up to 256 chars in a single line? Secondly, the code you posted only tells part of the story - it's obviously missing either relevant imports or defined functions or possibly both. Third, it would help to see examples of (a) what you expect it to generate, and (b) what it actually generates. You obviously have a web server available to you - you could put both code (just append .txt to the filename) and screenshots from your browser there with no difficulty at all and just include links. Actually i twas a short story since i have asked this already in 2 previous threads of mine, but here it is the whole thing pasted in pastebin. Its not so biug and with your talent you could understand it in aprox. 5 mins. http://pastebin.com/XgWKuXUC -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 11:35:12 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: TB behaves for me the same way. Any line 80 chars gets a newline. Why this is happening? Why not post up to 256 chars in a single line? Because this is usenet. Read the RFCs if you must know! -- Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Version Control Software
On 6/16/2013 1:29 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano If you're bringing in the *entire* CPython code base, as shown here: http://hg.python.org/ This is the python.org collection of repositories, not just cpython. keep in mind that it includes the equivalent of four independent implementations: - CPython 2.x - CPython 3.x - Stackless - Jython Hrm. Why are there other Pythons in the cpython repository? There are not. The cpython repository http://hg.python.org/cpython/ only contains cpython. As I write, the last revision is 84110. Windows says that my cpython clone has about 1400 folders, 15000 files, and 500 million bytes -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 11:07:12 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: On 16/6/2013 9:32 πμ, Denis McMahon wrote: On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:18:53 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: In both situations we still have 2 memory units holding values, so hows that different? Consider that each named variable is a pointer to a memory location that holds a value. This is one of the ways in that a typed compiled language and an untyped scripted language may differ in their treatment of data items (or variables). Consider the following C and Python code: C: int a, b; b = 6; a = b; In C, this places the numeric value 6 into the memory location identified by the variable b, then copies the value from the location pointed to by b into the location pointed to by a. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to another memory location also containing the value 6 Python: b = 6 a = b In Python, this first puts the value 6 in in a memory location and points b at that memory location, then makes a point to the same memory location as b points to. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to the same memory location Do you understand the difference? Yes and thank you for explaining in detail to me. So Python economies(saves) system's memory. Good job Python! No. Don't read that into it. For example, in Python a = 6 b = a c = 6 a and b point to one memory location that contains the value 6 c points to a different memory location that contains the value 6 Python doesn't point all the variables that have the same value at the same location. A pointer = a variable that has as a value a memory address a variable = a memory address that has as a value the actual value we want to store. These are really C terms, not Python terms. Stop thinking that C is behaving like Python. Is this how the thing works? No. Python is an interpreted language. C is a compiled language. They present very different feature sets to the user. You need to understand this, and at the moment you're not doing so. -- Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Version Control Software
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 6/16/2013 1:29 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano keep in mind that it includes the equivalent of four independent implementations: - CPython 2.x - CPython 3.x - Stackless - Jython Hrm. Why are there other Pythons in the cpython repository? There are not. The cpython repository http://hg.python.org/cpython/ only contains cpython. As I write, the last revision is 84110. Windows says that my cpython clone has about 1400 folders, 15000 files, and 500 million bytes Ah, well it's this one that I have. So it should have only CPython in it. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: My son wants me to teach him Python
On 14Jun2013 20:12, Dennis Lee Bieber wlfr...@ix.netcom.com wrote: | [...] PowerShell has been | available as a download on WinXP and standard on Win7 [PS 3 is a | download for Win7, stock on real Win8]. | While I'm not fluent in it, there are some commands I've gotten | rather engrained... | | get-childitem -recurse -filter *.ad* | select-string -pattern with | | finds all the Ada (GNAT convention .ads/.adb) files containing with | statements. And pattern probably is a regex so I could fine tune it to | just the package withs by using a start of line marker... Hmm. find . -name '*.ad*' | xargs grep with on almost any UNIX system. There's any number of variations on that depending on exactly what you want. I'm not going to get sucked into a UNIX/Windows bickerfest here, but your PowerShell example isn't winning me over. Sound like they reinvented the wheel. Again, years later:-( Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. - Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology, he...@zoo.toronto.edu -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On 16/6/2013 12:22 μμ, Denis McMahon wrote: On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 11:07:12 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: On 16/6/2013 9:32 πμ, Denis McMahon wrote: On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:18:53 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: In both situations we still have 2 memory units holding values, so hows that different? Consider that each named variable is a pointer to a memory location that holds a value. This is one of the ways in that a typed compiled language and an untyped scripted language may differ in their treatment of data items (or variables). Consider the following C and Python code: C: int a, b; b = 6; a = b; In C, this places the numeric value 6 into the memory location identified by the variable b, then copies the value from the location pointed to by b into the location pointed to by a. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to another memory location also containing the value 6 Python: b = 6 a = b In Python, this first puts the value 6 in in a memory location and points b at that memory location, then makes a point to the same memory location as b points to. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to the same memory location Do you understand the difference? Yes and thank you for explaining in detail to me. So Python economies(saves) system's memory. Good job Python! No. Don't read that into it. For example, in Python a = 6 b = a c = 6 a and b point to one memory location that contains the value 6 c points to a different memory location that contains the value 6 I believe you are mistaken. a here is not a pointer but variable, which is a memory location that stores value 6. b here is a pointer. It's value is the memory location of variable a which stores value 6. c here is just te same as a , a variable. A pointer = a variable that has as a value a memory address a variable = a memory address that has as a value the actual value we want to store. These are really C terms, not Python terms. Stop thinking that C is behaving like Python. I think it behaves the same way, but lets here from someone else too. Is this how the thing works? No. Python is an interpreted language. C is a compiled language. They present very different feature sets to the user. You need to understand this, and at the moment you're not doing so. Whats the difference of interpreting to compiling ? I have also asked other things too which you didn't quote, please do. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Greek mailing list [was Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?]
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 11:28:00 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: On 16/6/2013 8:06 πμ, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Nikos, Have you considered subscribing to this? http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-greece [...] I prefer staying here but i can also subscribe there as well if you teel me what the groups name. Nikos, this is exactly the sort of thing that makes it painful to try to help you. I've given you the URL. The name of the list is in the URL, and even if it isn't, you can just click on it and see for yourself. Let me repeat the URL in case you cannot see it above: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-greece I will not answer any more questions about the python-greece list, because I do not know any more about it than what you can see by following that list. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Nick the Gr33k supp...@superhost.gr wrote: On 16/6/2013 12:22 μμ, Denis McMahon wrote: For example, in Python a = 6 b = a c = 6 a and b point to one memory location that contains the value 6 c points to a different memory location that contains the value 6 I believe you are mistaken. a here is not a pointer but variable, which is a memory location that stores value 6. b here is a pointer. It's value is the memory location of variable a which stores value 6. c here is just te same as a , a variable. Actually, y'all both might be. This is a bit CPython specific and not mandated by the language specification. To Nikos: please don't extrapolate from the examples below. They are a CPython (the most common implementation of the Python language) specific detail. ## CODE SNIPPET## a = 6; b = a; c = 6 id(a) id(b) id(c) ## END CODE## These are all the same, indicating that they all point to the same 6 in memory. That's a CPython specific optimization (caching small integers) which is not guaranteed by the language and changes between pythons and between compiles. For example, ## CODE SNIPPET## a = 552315251254 b = a c = 552315251254 a is b # True _on my machine_ a is c # False _on my machine_ id(a) id(b) id(c) ## END CODE## Note that to compare if two names point to the same object, you can use the is operator. a is b c is a etc. A pointer = a variable that has as a value a memory address a variable = a memory address that has as a value the actual value we want to store. These are really C terms, not Python terms. Stop thinking that C is behaving like Python. I think it behaves the same way, but lets here from someone else too. I understand the Greeks invented democracy and all that, but facts aren't subject to it. Whats the difference of interpreting to compiling ? If only it could be googled Alas, no one has ever written anything about technology on the internet. Ironic that... Michael -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On 16/06/2013 11:42, R. Michael Weylandt wrote: Whats the difference of interpreting to compiling ? If only it could be googled Alas, no one has ever written anything about technology on the internet. Ironic that... Michael I'm very sorry but I don't understand the words googled and internet. Could you please explain them? -- Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green. Snooker commentator 'Whispering' Ted Lowe. Mark Lawrence -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:59:00 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: Whats the difference of interpreting to compiling ? OK, I give up! -- Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Greek mailing list [was Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?]
On 16/6/2013 1:33 μμ, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 11:28:00 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: On 16/6/2013 8:06 πμ, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Nikos, Have you considered subscribing to this? http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-greece [...] I prefer staying here but i can also subscribe there as well if you teel me what the groups name. Nikos, this is exactly the sort of thing that makes it painful to try to help you. I've given you the URL. The name of the list is in the URL, and even if it isn't, you can just click on it and see for yourself. Let me repeat the URL in case you cannot see it above: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-greece I will not answer any more questions about the python-greece list, because I do not know any more about it than what you can see by following that list. i did Steven that why i asked in the 1st place To post a message to all the list members, send email to python-gre...@python.org. this is not a valid nrewgroup name/ -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Greek mailing list [was Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?]
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 11:28:00 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: On 16/6/2013 8:06 πμ, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Nikos, Have you considered subscribing to this? http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-greece [...] I prefer staying here but i can also subscribe there as well if you teel me what the groups name. Nikos, this is exactly the sort of thing that makes it painful to try to help you. I've given you the URL. The name of the list is in the URL, and even if it isn't, you can just click on it and see for yourself. Let me repeat the URL in case you cannot see it above: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-greece Nikos wants Usenet: Thank you Steven i don't want to enter there as mail but wish to find it as a newsgroups, which i tried to subscribe but TB couldn't find it. -- Kwpolska http://kwpolska.tk | GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16 stop html mail| always bottom-post http://asciiribbon.org| http://caliburn.nl/topposting.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Greek mailing list [was Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?]
On 16/06/2013 11:57, Ferrous Cranus wrote: i did Steven that why i asked in the 1st place To post a message to all the list members, send email to python-gre...@python.org. this is not a valid nrewgroup name/ Not valid in the same way that supp...@superhost.gr is not valid? -- Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green. Snooker commentator 'Whispering' Ted Lowe. Mark Lawrence -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On 16/6/2013 1:42 μμ, R. Michael Weylandt wrote: I believe you are mistaken. a here is not a pointer but variable, which is a memory location that stores value 6. b here is a pointer. It's value is the memory location of variable a which stores value 6. c here is just te same as a , a variable. Actually, y'all both might be. This is a bit CPython specific and not mandated by the language specification. To Nikos: please don't extrapolate from the examples below. They are a CPython (the most common implementation of the Python language) specific detail. ## CODE SNIPPET## a = 6; b = a; c = 6 id(a) id(b) id(c) ## END CODE## These are all the same, indicating that they all point to the same 6 in memory. That's a CPython specific optimization (caching small integers) which is not guaranteed by the language and changes between pythons and between compiles. For example, ## CODE SNIPPET## a = 552315251254 b = a c = 552315251254 a is b # True _on my machine_ I accept this if in the premise that, b boils down to actually point to a's value, but it has to go through a first to find it, not directly. a is c # False _on my machine_ Why false? These are 2 different memory locations storing the same number. This should have been True. Looks very weird. a = memory location storing a value b = memory location storing a's memory location c = memory location storing a value, the same value as a id(a) id(b) id(c) ## END CODE## Note that to compare if two names point to the same object, you can use the is operator. a is b c is a etc. what id() does, never heard of that function before. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Greek mailing list [was Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?]
On 16/6/2013 2:09 μμ, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 16/06/2013 11:57, Ferrous Cranus wrote: i did Steven that why i asked in the 1st place To post a message to all the list members, send email to python-gre...@python.org. this is not a valid nrewgroup name/ Not valid in the same way that supp...@superhost.gr is not valid? There is not newsgroup called 'python-greece'. i searched. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
OT: C vs Python terminology (was: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed)
On 16.06.2013 08:32, Denis McMahon wrote: C: int a, b; b = 6; a = b; In C, this places the numeric value 6 into the memory location identified by the variable b, so far so good. then copies the value from the location pointed to by b into the location pointed to by a. Wrong. Neither a nor b are pointers, thus they don't point to a memory location. This part should be written as then copies the value at the location identified by b to the location identified by a. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to another memory location also containing the value 6 Again, neither a nor b are pointers. b is the name of a memory location containing the integer value 6. a is the name of another memory location containing the integer value 6. Python: b = 6 a = b In Python, this first puts the value 6 in in a memory location and points b at that memory location, then makes a point to the same memory location as b points to. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to the same memory location I wouldn't use the term pointer in context with Python. Using the terms from the language reference I would write that as In Python, this first creates an integer object with value 6 and then binds the name b to it. Then it binds the name a to the same object. Thus both a and b reference the same object, i.e. they are different names for the same object. Bye, Andreas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
Nick the Gr33k writes: On 16/6/2013 12:22 μμ, Denis McMahon wrote: For example, in Python a = 6 b = a c = 6 a and b point to one memory location that contains the value 6 c points to a different memory location that contains the value 6 I believe you are mistaken. a here is not a pointer but variable, which is a memory location that stores value 6. b here is a pointer. It's value is the memory location of variable a which stores value 6. c here is just te same as a , a variable. b is also just like a. All the talk about pointers and memory locations is intended to explain how things do or do not change. (Or, sometimes, how the behaviour is implemented.) If, instead of the above, you have a = 6 b = a b = 5 you will find that b == 5 and a == 6. So b is not the same as a. Else one would have changed when the other changed. I would say that a and b are different variables. They had the same value, briefly. What does same mean? Think of mutable objects. A dictionary, for example: a = dict(x = 3) b = a b.update(x = 31) You will find that the value of a changed when the value of b changed. It's the same value. Values do not get copied in Python when you pass them around. This is implemented with pointers and memory locations, but in Python these implementation details are normally hidden behind the scenes. Python is far from unique in this regard. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On 16/06/2013 12:06, Ferrous Cranus wrote: what id() does, never heard of that function before. what google does, never heard of that function before. -- Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green. Snooker commentator 'Whispering' Ted Lowe. Mark Lawrence -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python Greek mailing list [was Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?]
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On 16/06/2013 11:57, Ferrous Cranus wrote: i did Steven that why i asked in the 1st place To post a message to all the list members, send email to python-gre...@python.org. this is not a valid nrewgroup name/ Not valid in the same way that supp...@superhost.gr is not valid? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#Organization -- Kwpolska http://kwpolska.tk | GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16 stop html mail| always bottom-post http://asciiribbon.org| http://caliburn.nl/topposting.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Ferrous Cranus supp...@superhost.gr wrote: I appreciate you've returned to your Ferrous Cranus persona for this interchange. It reminds me not to get hung up on concerns of futility... On 16/6/2013 1:42 μμ, R. Michael Weylandt wrote: ## CODE SNIPPET## a = 552315251254 b = a c = 552315251254 a is b # True _on my machine_ I accept this if in the premise that, b boils down to actually point to a's value, but it has to go through a first to find it, not directly. You don't get to accept it on a premise or not. It's simply a matter of fact. In fact, b does not go through a. The memory address referenced exists even if the a binding is removed using del a or some other mechanism. Imagine this scenario: [a] \ 6 / [b] Using the name a or b simply tells Python where to look for a value, but the value itself is not associated with a or b and will only be removed if both a and b are del'd. If we remove a while keeping b alive, we still have a means of getting to 6 so Python's GC / RefCounter won't remove it. This implies that the memory can't be solely owned by a. [a] # Binding gone now or perhaps referring to something else 6 / [b] And this pattern continues for any sort of Python object. a is c # False _on my machine_ Why false? These are 2 different memory locations storing the same number. This should have been True. Again, you have the idea that you can use words like should here. It either is or isn't. There's simply no normative claim involved. what id() does, never heard of that function before. It seems you've also never heard of Python's help function? Try help(id) at your interactive prompt and see what happens. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! Depth of stubbornness? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
Le 16.06.2013 13:06, Ferrous Cranus a écrit : what id() does, never heard of that function before. just type help(id) at Python prompt and stop flooding the group with superfluous demands. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Compiling vs interpreting [was Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.]
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 10:51:31 +, Denis McMahon wrote: On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:59:00 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: Whats the difference of interpreting to compiling ? OK, I give up! Actually, that's a more subtle question than most people think. Python, for example, is a compiled language. (What did you think the c in .pyc files stood for? and the compile() function?) It is compiled to byte-code, which runs on a virtual machine, rather than machine-code, which runs on a physical machine. Except PyPy, which *is* compiled to machine-code. Except that it doesn't do so at compile time, but on the fly at run-time. And these days, for many types of hardware, even machine-code is often interpreted by a virtual machine on a chip. And even languages which compile to machine-code often use an intermediate platform-independent form rather than targeting pure machine-code. The line between compilers and interpreters is quite fuzzy. Probably the best definition I've seen for the difference between a modern compiler and interpreter is this one: ...the distinguishing feature of interpreted languages is not that they are not compiled, but that the compiler is part of the language runtime and that, therefore, it is possible (and easy) to execute code generated on the fly. -- Roberto Ierusalimschy, Programming In Lua, 2nd Edition, p. 63 -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 09:22:20 +, Denis McMahon wrote: Python: b = 6 a = b In Python, this first puts the value 6 in in a memory location and points b at that memory location, then makes a point to the same memory location as b points to. That may be true in some sense for CPython, the reference implementation, but it is not a promise of the language. For example, in PyPy objects are free to move around in memory, so you cannot meaningfully speak of putting 6 in a memory location or having a variable point to the same memory location. The language promise is that the two names, a and b, both refer to the same object. In the same way that, depending on who you ask, Barack Obama, Mr President, and Dad are three names referring to the same person. Anything more than that depends on the implementation. [...] For example, in Python a = 6 b = a c = 6 a and b point to one memory location that contains the value 6 c points to a different memory location that contains the value 6 Well, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. This is one area where the language does not specify the underlying behaviour. Because ints are unchangeable, immutable objects, the implementation is free to cache and reuse them if it wants. CPython caches small integers, but not floats. Other implementations may cache fewer, or more, immutable objects. One thing which no Python implementation can do though is re-use *mutable* objects. [...] These are really C terms, not Python terms. Stop thinking that C is behaving like Python. This is certainly true! -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: C vs Python terminology
On 06/16/2013 07:22 AM, Andreas Perstinger wrote: On 16.06.2013 08:32, Denis McMahon wrote: C: int a, b; b = 6; a = b; In C, this places the numeric value 6 into the memory location identified by the variable b, so far so good. then copies the value from the location pointed to by b into the location pointed to by a. Wrong. Neither a nor b are pointers, thus they don't point to a memory location. This part should be written as then copies the value at the location identified by b to the location identified by a. But it doesn't. It binds b to the same object to which a is currently bound. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to another memory location also containing the value 6 Again, neither a nor b are pointers. b is the name of a memory location containing the integer value 6. a is the name of another memory location containing the integer value 6. Not even close. If you don't like the terms bound or points, the perhaps you'd be happy with b is the name that currently knows how to find an int object containing 6. That object has no name, and never will. And it can exist for a long time with no names directly bound to it. Python: b = 6 a = b In Python, this first puts the value 6 in in a memory location and points b at that memory location, then makes a point to the same memory location as b points to. b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to the same memory location I wouldn't use the term pointer in context with Python. Using the terms from the language reference I would write that as In Python, this first creates an integer object with value 6 and then binds the name b to it. Then it binds the name a to the same object. Thus both a and b reference the same object, i.e. they are different names for the same object. Bye, Andreas Doing all of this discussion with immutable objects masks the real behavior, as someone can use a false model and seem to justify that model. I don't think you're doing that, but others in the thread are. -- DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Timsort in Cpython
Answer: The lost context. Question: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted? alphons...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I've read it. Very interesting read. There are other resources too online that make it very clear, for instance the wikipedia articles is pretty good. Though, if anyone would be interested in helping me out further -- though by all means, I'm not lazy, I can figure it myself. But, I wanted to pass in variables into listsort and watch timsort work line by line in gdb. listsort(PyListObject *self, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwds) I've never worked with Cpython source before, but it looks like PyObject is just some type of general strut.. I think anyway. How does python represent a list of ints in source? and what are the two second arguments for, assuming the first is the list strut. On Saturday, June 15, 2013 12:44:01 PM UTC-7, alpho...@gmail.com wrote: I'm currently trying to make sense of Python's Timsort function. From the wikipedia page I was told the algorithm is located somewhere here: http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Objects/listobject.c So of all the functions in there, could somebody point to me which one is timsort? Thanks, if anyone can help. Alphonse23 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Version Control Software
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 1:14 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm. ~/cpython/.hg is 200MB+, but ~/pike/.git is only 86MB. Does Mercurial compress its content? A tar.gz of each comes down, but only to ~170MB and ~75MB respectively, so I'm guessing the bulk of it is already compressed. But 200MB for cpython seems like a lot. Next time, do a more fair comparison. I created an empty git and hg repository, and created a file promptly named “file” with DIGIT ONE (0x31; UTF-8/ASCII–encoded) and commited it with “c1” as the message, then I turned it into “12” and commited as “c2” and did this one more time, making the file “123” at commit named “c3”. [kwpolska@kwpolska-lin .hg@default]% cat * */* */*/* 2/dev/null | wc -c 1481 [kwpolska@kwpolska-lin .git@master]% cat * */* */*/* */*/*/* 2/dev/null | wc -c 16860 ← WRONG! There is just one problem with this: an empty git repository starts at 15216 bytes, due to some sample hooks. Let’s remove them and try again: [kwpolska@kwpolska-lin .git@master]% rm hooks/* [kwpolska@kwpolska-lin .git@master]% cat * */* */*/* */*/*/* */*/*/* 2/dev/null | wc -c 2499 which is a much more sane number. This includes a config file (in the ini/configparser format) and such. According to my maths skils (or rather zsh’s skills), new commits are responsible for 1644 bytes in the git repo and 1391 bytes in the hg repo. (I’m using wc -c to count the bytes in all files there are. du is unaccurate with files smaller than 4096 bytes.) -- Kwpolska http://kwpolska.tk | GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16 stop html mail| always bottom-post http://asciiribbon.org| http://caliburn.nl/topposting.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On 16/6/2013 3:04 μμ, R. Michael Weylandt wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Ferrous Cranus supp...@superhost.gr wrote: I appreciate you've returned to your Ferrous Cranus persona for this interchange. It reminds me not to get hung up on concerns of futility... On 16/6/2013 1:42 μμ, R. Michael Weylandt wrote: ## CODE SNIPPET## a = 552315251254 b = a c = 552315251254 a is b # True _on my machine_ And this pattern continues for any sort of Python object. a is c # False _on my machine_ And in mine is also True. id(a) 140160465571760 id(b) 140160465571760 id(c) 140160465571696 Since all object result to point to actual number 6 why don't all of them (a,b,c) bound to the same memory address. a and b seem both objects of the same identity, which means they are both bound to the same memory address(140160465571760) how come c's memory address is different than a's and b's ? After all, this is the 3rd object pointing to number 6. And why not d and e and f and g are all objects of the same memory address? In fact, b does not go through a. The memory address referenced exists even if the a binding is removed using del a or some other mechanism. Imagine this scenario: [a] \ 6 / [b] Using the name a or b simply tells Python where to look for a value, but the value itself is not associated with a or b. If i understood you correctly, you say: unbounded memory address = value of 6 a = pointer to memory address that holds 6 b = pointer to memory address that holds 6 So, a and b, are two objects(two variable names if you want) that are bounded to the same memory address. And their value is the address of unbounded memory address. Correct? what id() does, never heard of that function before. It seems you've also never heard of Python's help function? Try help(id) at your interactive prompt and see what happens. No i had no idea thagt was a bult-in help() function. So id() is actually the memory address of an object which uniquely identifies it. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A few questiosn about encoding
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Benjamin Schollnick
benja...@schollnick.net wrote:
Nick,
The only thing that i didn't understood is this line.
First please tell me what is a byte value
\x1b is a sequence you find inside strings (and byte strings, the
b'...' format).
\x1b is a character(ESC) represented in hex format
b'\x1b' is a byte object that represents what?
chr(27).encode('utf-8')
b'\x1b'
b'\x1b'.decode('utf-8')
'\x1b'
After decoding it gives the char ESC in hex format
Shouldn't it result in value 27 which is the ordinal of ESC ?
I'm sorry are you not listening?
1b is a HEXADECIMAL Number. As a so-called programmer, did you seriously
not consider that?
Try this:
1) Open a Web browser
2) Go to Google.com
3) Type in Hex 1B
4) Click on the first link
5) In the Hexadecimal column find 1B.
Or open your favorite calculator, and convert Hexadecimal 1B to Decimal
(Base 10).
- Benjamin
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Better: a programmer should know how to convert hexadecimal to decimal.
0x1B = (0x1 * 16^1) + (0xB * 16^0) = (1 * 16) + (11 * 1) = 16 + 11 = 27
It’s that easy, and a programmer should be able to do that in their
brain, at least with small numbers. Or at least know that:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=0x1B+in+decimal
Or at least `hex(27)`; or '`{:X}'.format(27)`; or `'%X' % 27`. (I
despise hex numbers with lowercase letters, but that’s my personal
opinion.)
--
Kwpolska http://kwpolska.tk | GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail| always bottom-post
http://asciiribbon.org| http://caliburn.nl/topposting.html
--
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Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On 16/6/2013 2:13 μμ, Jussi Piitulainen wrote: If, instead of the above, you have a = 6 b = a b = 5 you will find that b == 5 and a == 6. So b is not the same as a. Else one would have changed when the other changed. I would say that a and b are different variables. They had the same value, briefly. If they were different variables then they would have different memory addresses and they would act like two different objects. But... both a and b are for a fact mappings for the same memory address as seen form the following command. id(a) == id(b) True They are like the same object with 2 different names. Like i'am a human being and me Greek friends call me Νίκος while you guys call me Nick. That the way i understand it so far. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Version Control Software
In article mailman.3442.1371389433.3114.python-l...@python.org,
Chris ï¾Kwpolskaï¾ Warrick kwpol...@gmail.com wrote:
(Iâm using wc -c to count the bytes in all files there are. du is
unaccurate with files smaller than 4096 bytes.)
It's not that du is not accurate, it's that it's measuring something
different. It's measuring how much disk space the file is using. For
most files, that's the number of characters in the file rounded up to a
full block. For large files, I believe it also includes the overhead of
indirect blocks or extent trees. And, finally, for sparse files, it
takes into account that some logical blocks in the file may not be
mapped to any physical storage.
So, whether you want to use du or wc -c depends on what you're
trying to measure. If you want to know how much disk space you're
using, du is the right tool. If you want to know how much data will be
transmitted if the file is serialized (i.e. packed in a tarball or sent
via a {hg,git} clone operation), then wc-c is what you want.
All that being said, for the vast majority of cases (and I would be
astonished if this was not true for any real-life vcs repo), the
difference between what wc and du tell you is not worth worrying about.
And du is going to be a heck of a lot faster.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?
On 16/6/2013 4:07 πμ, Nick the Gr33k wrote:
On 16/6/2013 1:51 πμ, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Benjamin Schollnick
benja...@schollnick.net wrote:
cur.execute('''SELECT ID FROM counters WHERE url = %s''', page )
cur.execute('''INSERT INTO counters (url) VALUES (%s)''', page )
Sure, whoever wrote that code is a fool.
http://xkcd.com/327/
They didn't sanitize your database inputs.
I assume you're talking about the above two lines of code? They're not
SQL injection targets.
Then how those page entries found in the database Chris?
The clue is that the %s isn't in quotes.
What happens if i write it like this?
cur.execute('''SELECT ID FROM counters WHERE url = %s''', page )
How quoting of %s helps here?
This is an out-of-band argument passing method (actually, since he's
using
MySQL (IIRC), it's probably just going to escape it and pass it on
through, but it comes to the same thing), so it's safe.
Yes iam using a comma and not a substitute operator, so input is mysql
validates.
Please explain what is an out-of-band argument passing method
What your idea of those entries made it to the counters database table?
Chris? Care to explain please?
--
What is now proved was at first only imagined!
--
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Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?
On 16/6/2013 11:35 πμ, Nick the Gr33k wrote: On 16/6/2013 10:23 πμ, Denis McMahon wrote: On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 22:38:38 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: PLEASE take a look, its not a huge code First, you need to start writing your code to less than 80 columns if you're going to keep posting it to usenet. I'm sure I'm not the only person who can't be bothered to unwrap it. TB behaves for me the same way. Any line 80 chars gets a newline. Why this is happening? Why not post up to 256 chars in a single line? Secondly, the code you posted only tells part of the story - it's obviously missing either relevant imports or defined functions or possibly both. Third, it would help to see examples of (a) what you expect it to generate, and (b) what it actually generates. You obviously have a web server available to you - you could put both code (just append .txt to the filename) and screenshots from your browser there with no difficulty at all and just include links. Actually i twas a short story since i have asked this already in 2 previous threads of mine, but here it is the whole thing pasted in pastebin. Its not so biug and with your talent you could understand it in aprox. 5 mins. http://pastebin.com/XgWKuXUC Someone saw something that will help explain why the utf-8 converted filenames refuse to appear? -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
on git gc --aggressive [was Re: Version Control Software]
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:55 PM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 16, 4:14 am, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: The advantage of DVCS is that everybody has a full copy of the repo. The disadvantage of the DVCS is that every MUST have a full copy of the repo. When a repo gets big, you may not want to pull all of that data just to get the subtree you need. Yeah, and depending on size, that can be a major problem. While git _will_ let you make a shallow clone, it won't let you push from that, so it's good only for read-only repositories (we use git to manage software deployments at work - shallow clones are perfect) or for working with patch files. Hmm. ~/cpython/.hg is 200MB+, but ~/pike/.git is only 86MB. Does Mercurial compress its content? A tar.gz of each comes down, but only to ~170MB and ~75MB respectively, so I'm guessing the bulk of it is already compressed. But 200MB for cpython seems like a lot. [I am assuming that you have run git gc --aggressive before giving those figures] Off-topic, but this is a bad idea in most cases. This is a post including an email from Torvalds proclaiming how and why git gc --aggressive is dumb in 99% of cases and should rarely be used: http://metalinguist.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/the-woes-of-git-gc-aggressive-and-how-git-deltas-work/ All the best, Jason -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Imports (in Py3), please help a novice
Is there an import / distutils tutorial out there? I'm looking for it, but perhaps one of you already knows where to find it. Thanks! Did you have a look at http://docs.python.org/3.3/distutils/examples.html? Another thing to do is to look at what other packages on PyPi are doing. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: C vs Python terminology
On 16.06.2013 14:55, Dave Angel wrote: On 06/16/2013 07:22 AM, Andreas Perstinger wrote: On 16.06.2013 08:32, Denis McMahon wrote: C: ^ int a, b; b = 6; a = b; In C, this places the numeric value 6 into the memory location identified ^ by the variable b, so far so good. then copies the value from the location pointed to by b into the location pointed to by a. Wrong. Neither a nor b are pointers, thus they don't point to a memory location. This part should be written as then copies the value at the location identified by b to the location identified by a. But it doesn't. It binds b to the same object to which a is currently bound. Are you aware that Denis was talking about the behaviour of C in the above quote? b is a pointer to a memory location containing the value 6 a is a pointer to another memory location also containing the value 6 Again, neither a nor b are pointers. b is the name of a memory location containing the integer value 6. a is the name of another memory location containing the integer value 6. Not even close. If you don't like the terms bound or points, the perhaps you'd be happy with b is the name that currently knows how to find an int object containing 6. That object has no name, and never will. And it can exist for a long time with no names directly bound to it. Again, Denis was talking about C. Bye, Andreas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Version Control Software
Roy Smith r...@panix.com writes: In article mailman.3442.1371389433.3114.python-l...@python.org, Chris Kwpolska Warrick kwpol...@gmail.com wrote: (Im using wc -c to count the bytes in all files there are. du is unaccurate with files smaller than 4096 bytes.) It's not that du is not accurate, it's that it's measuring something different. It's measuring how much disk space the file is using. For most files, that's the number of characters in the file rounded up to a full block. I think âdu -câ emits a number very close to âwc -câ. ciao, lele. -- nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivrò di quello che ho pensato ieri real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia. l...@metapensiero.it | -- Fortunato Depero, 1929. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Timsort in Cpython
sorry about that. I'm new to google groups. I'm trying to make sense of python's implementation of timsort through cpython: http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Objects/listobject.c I was replying to Terry Jan Reedy http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Objects/listsort.txt is pretty clear (to me) for most of the basics. Though, if anyone would be interested in helping me out further -- though by all means, I'm not lazy, I can figure it myself. But, I wanted to pass in variables into listsort and watch timsort work line by line in gdb. listsort(PyListObject *self, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwds) I've never worked with Cpython source before, but it looks like PyObject is just some type of general strut.. I think anyway. How does python represent a list of ints in source? and what are the two second arguments for, assuming the first is the list strut. On Sunday, June 16, 2013 6:08:50 AM UTC-7, mm0fmf wrote: Answer: The lost context. Question: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted? alphons...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I've read it. Very interesting read. There are other resources too online that make it very clear, for instance the wikipedia articles is pretty good. Though, if anyone would be interested in helping me out further -- though by all means, I'm not lazy, I can figure it myself. But, I wanted to pass in variables into listsort and watch timsort work line by line in gdb. listsort(PyListObject *self, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwds) I've never worked with Cpython source before, but it looks like PyObject is just some type of general strut.. I think anyway. How does python represent a list of ints in source? and what are the two second arguments for, assuming the first is the list strut. On Saturday, June 15, 2013 12:44:01 PM UTC-7, alpho...@gmail.com wrote: I'm currently trying to make sense of Python's Timsort function. From the wikipedia page I was told the algorithm is located somewhere here: http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Objects/listobject.c So of all the functions in there, could somebody point to me which one is timsort? Thanks, if anyone can help. Alphonse23 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Version Control Software
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick kwpol...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 1:14 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm. ~/cpython/.hg is 200MB+, but ~/pike/.git is only 86MB. Does Mercurial compress its content? A tar.gz of each comes down, but only to ~170MB and ~75MB respectively, so I'm guessing the bulk of it is already compressed. But 200MB for cpython seems like a lot. Next time, do a more fair comparison. I created an empty git and hg repository, and created a file promptly named “file” with DIGIT ONE (0x31; UTF-8/ASCII–encoded) and commited it with “c1” as the message, then I turned it into “12” and commited as “c2” and did this one more time, making the file “123” at commit named “c3”. [kwpolska@kwpolska-lin .hg@default]% cat * */* */*/* 2/dev/null | wc -c 1481 [kwpolska@kwpolska-lin .git@master]% cat * */* */*/* */*/*/* 2/dev/null | wc -c 16860 ← WRONG! There is just one problem with this: an empty git repository starts at 15216 bytes, due to some sample hooks. Let’s remove them and try again: [kwpolska@kwpolska-lin .git@master]% rm hooks/* [kwpolska@kwpolska-lin .git@master]% cat * */* */*/* */*/*/* */*/*/* 2/dev/null | wc -c 2499 which is a much more sane number. This includes a config file (in the ini/configparser format) and such. According to my maths skils (or rather zsh’s skills), new commits are responsible for 1644 bytes in the git repo and 1391 bytes in the hg repo. This is not a fair comparison, either. If we want to do a fair comparison pertinent to this discussion, let's convert the cpython mercurial repository into a git repository and allow the git repo to repack the diffs the way it deems fit. I'm using the git-remote-hg.py script [ https://github.com/felipec/git/blob/fc/master/contrib/remote-helpers/git-remote-hg.py] to clone a mercurial repo into a native git repo. Then, in one of the rare cases, using git gc --aggressive. [1] The result: Git: cpython_git/.git $ du -h --max-depth=1 40K ./hooks 145M ./objects 20K ./logs 24K ./refs 24K ./info 146M . Mercurial: cpython/.hg $ du -h --max-depth=1 209M ./store 20K ./cache 209M . And to help illustrate the equivalence of the two repositories: Git: cpython_git $ git log | head; git log | tail commit 78f82bde04f8b3832f3cb6725c4bd9c8d705d13b Author: Brett Cannon br...@python.org Date: Sat Jun 15 23:24:11 2013 -0400 Make test_builtin work when executed directly commit a7b16f8188a16905bbc1d49fe6fd940078dd1f3d Merge: 346494a af14b7c Author: Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org Date: Sat Jun 15 18:14:56 2013 -0700 Author: Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org Date: Mon Sep 10 11:15:23 1990 + Warning about incompleteness. commit b5e5004ae8f54d7d5ddfa0688fc8385cafde0e63 Author: Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org Date: Thu Aug 9 14:25:15 1990 + Initial revision Mercurial: cpython $ hg log | head; hg log | tail changeset: 84163:5b90da280515 bookmark:master tag: tip user:Brett Cannon br...@python.org date:Sat Jun 15 23:24:11 2013 -0400 summary: Make test_builtin work when executed directly changeset: 84162:7dee56b6ff34 parent: 84159:5e8b377942f7 parent: 84161:7e06a99bb821 user:Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org date:Mon Sep 10 11:15:23 1990 + summary: Warning about incompleteness. changeset: 0:3cd033e6b530 branch: legacy-trunk user:Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org date:Thu Aug 09 14:25:15 1990 + summary: Initial revision They both appear to have the same history. In this particular case, it seems that git does a better job in terms of space management, probably due to the fact that it doesn't store duplicate copies of identical source code that appears in different files (it tracks content, not files). That being said, from what I've read both git and mercurial have their advantages, both in the performance arena and the features/usability arena (I only know how to really use git). I'd certainly take a DVCS over a centralized model any day. All the best, Jason [1] I know I just posted in this thread about --aggressive being bad, but the packing from the translation was horrible -- the translated git repo was ~2 GB in size. An `aggressive' repacking was necessary to allow git to decide how to pack the diffs. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: on git gc --aggressive [was Re: Version Control Software]
On Jun 16, 7:09 pm, Jason Swails jason.swa...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:55 PM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 16, 4:14 am, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: The advantage of DVCS is that everybody has a full copy of the repo. The disadvantage of the DVCS is that every MUST have a full copy of the repo. When a repo gets big, you may not want to pull all of that data just to get the subtree you need. Yeah, and depending on size, that can be a major problem. While git _will_ let you make a shallow clone, it won't let you push from that, so it's good only for read-only repositories (we use git to manage software deployments at work - shallow clones are perfect) or for working with patch files. Hmm. ~/cpython/.hg is 200MB+, but ~/pike/.git is only 86MB. Does Mercurial compress its content? A tar.gz of each comes down, but only to ~170MB and ~75MB respectively, so I'm guessing the bulk of it is already compressed. But 200MB for cpython seems like a lot. [I am assuming that you have run git gc --aggressive before giving those figures] Off-topic, but this is a bad idea in most cases. This is a post including an email from Torvalds proclaiming how and why git gc --aggressive is dumb in 99% of cases and should rarely be used: http://metalinguist.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/the-woes-of-git-gc-aggre... Yeah... Thanks for that link. I knew there's something about gc and something about pack. Too much of a git noob to know which is which! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Version Control Software
On 6/16/2013 11:48 AM, Lele Gaifax wrote: Roy Smith r...@panix.com writes: In article mailman.3442.1371389433.3114.python-l...@python.org, Chris Kwpolska Warrick kwpol...@gmail.com wrote: (I��m using wc -c to count the bytes in all files there are. du is unaccurate with files smaller than 4096 bytes.) It's not that du is not accurate, it's that it's measuring something different. It's measuring how much disk space the file is using. For most files, that's the number of characters in the file rounded up to a full block. I think “du -c” emits a number very close to “wc -c”. In Windows Explorer, the Properties box displays both the Size and 'Size on disk', in both (KB or MB) and bytes. The block size for the disk I am looking at is 4KB, so the Size on disk in KB is a multiple of that. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Don't feed the troll...
Op 15-06-13 21:29, Steven D'Aprano schreef: On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 11:18:03 -0700, rusi wrote: At least two people -- Alex and Antoon -- have told you that by supporting Nikos, when everyone else wants him off list, you are part of the problem. And others have publicly thanked me for giving useful answers to Nikos, because they have learned from them. That doesn't contradict that you may be part of the problem. There is something like the law of diminishing returns. So the kind of respons that is helpful at the beginnig can become part of the problem when it becomes part of a seemingly endless cycle. You replied to Antoon, and agreed with his position that we should shun Nikos, then *immediately* contradicted yourself by stating that Robert Kern's helpful answers were the ideal. And then, just to further demonstrate that your actions are at best inconsistent and at worst hypocritical, you have since gone on to fire barbs at Nikos instead of ignoring him. So please tend to the beam in your own eye before pointing at the mote in mine. So what. We all are somewhat inconsistent and hypocritical. That doesn't make your responses unproblematic. If in the future you want to respond like Robert Kern that seems fine enough. But if you continue like you are now, I'll consider you an enabler. Others -- Fabio -- have indicated their wish to leave the list due to everything becoming Nikos-tainted. That would be disappointing, but there's nothing I can do about it. Yes you can. You can stop enabling his behaviour. Now you may think this is an unacceptable option for and that is something you will have to decide for yourself but you do have a choice. Everyone is exasperated and talking of kill-filing him. Then why don't they? Don't feed the troll includes trying to beat him into submission with insults and half-witty remarks. Not feeding the troll doesn't help. If people are transgressing the social norms in a community, they need to get a response that makes it clear they crossed the line. If they don't you are implicetly broadcasting the message there is no out of bound behaviour. This is not about Nikos. It's about those who are also doing their bit to make this community an ugly, hostile place. I won't mention names -- you know who you are. Those who take it upon themselves to bait and prod and poke Nikos with insults and inflammatory replies. Appointing themselves Internet Police and making ridiculous claims that Nikos ought to be reported to the police. Sending bogus complaints to the domain registrar. There is a word for this sort of behaviour: bullying. I don't care how morally justified you think you are, you are now just as big a part of the problem as Nikos. You are trying to get it both ways. On the one hand you try to argue that there are no boundaries to what is acceptable by calling people who do try to enforce such boundaries the Internet Police. On the other hand you do suggest that playing Internet Police is out of bound behaviour. You have to make a choice. Either you don't want to recognize there can be something like out of bound behaviour and then people making this community an ugly hostile place is acceptable. Or you think there is behaviour that is out of bounds and then you must consider the possiblity that Nikos behaviour is an example of that and that what you consider ugly responses are people trying to address that out of bound behaviour and that you responding to Nikos as you do for the moment is perpetuating Nokos's unacceptable behaviour. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Imports (in Py3), please help a novice
Thanks for your reply, Miki. On Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:50:53 AM UTC-7, Miki Tebeka wrote: Is there an import / distutils tutorial out there? I'm looking for it, but perhaps one of you already knows where to find it. Thanks! Did you have a look at http://docs.python.org/3.3/distutils/examples.html? I wrote: I've just spent the past few hours trying to read the distutils documentation... but I didn't quite get as far as Section 7, the Examples. I was trying to RTFM linearly, beginning (naturally) at the beginning: http://docs.python.org/3.3/distutils/introduction.html I see some new things in the Examples section that I might try. Another thing to do is to look at what other packages on PyPi are doing. That's what I was trying to do by looking at numpy, matplotlib, and wx on my own system -- but they are all too complex. I'll have a look at PyPI, and with luck I will find some simpler examples. Thanks! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Ferrous Cranus supp...@superhost.gr wrote: On 16/6/2013 3:04 μμ, R. Michael Weylandt wrote: ## CODE SNIPPET## a = 552315251254 b = a c = 552315251254 a is b # True _on my machine_ And this pattern continues for any sort of Python object. a is c # False _on my machine_ And in mine is also True. What do you mean also true here? You can't be also true in the presence of a false. This makes little sense to me... id(a) 140160465571760 id(b) 140160465571760 id(c) 140160465571696 Since all object result to point to actual number 6 why don't all of them (a,b,c) bound to the same memory address. Look at the code they follow. (At least in this email) -- none of them point to an object with value 6. They all point to a much larger value. a and b seem both objects of the same identity, which means they are both bound to the same memory address(140160465571760) Yes how come c's memory address is different than a's and b's ? After all, this is the 3rd object pointing to number 6. Again, no it's not. And why not d and e and f and g are all objects of the same memory address? What are these variables? They are referenced nowhere in any mail between you and me. a and b are the same object, with two different names. (No if I want about it -- the distinction is important) No idea what you mean by unbounded memory address here. (Yes I'm aware I deleted a fairly meaningless line about it from the context) No i had no idea thagt was a bult-in help() function. So id() is actually the memory address of an object which uniquely identifies it. Yes. I think part of your confusion is coming from the dual interpretation of the = operator in an expression like: LHS = RHS If RHS is some sort of literal, a conforming Python behaves as if (modulo optimizations described below) a new object is created according to that literal, put in memory and the name LHS is used to point to it. If RHS is a name (as in code such as a = b), the Python will find the object to which b refers and add a new reference (a) to it. Some information on the CPython specific implementation details: As part of the startup process, CPython creates some number of small integers and adds them to the object cache. Why? Because creating an object (even as simple as an int) is relatively expensive and small integers are ubiquitous in programming. This sacrifices some memory for a good deal of speed. But the payoff becomes less as you go higher: almost all programs will use a 0 or a 2, fewer will use 247. At some point, the pre-creation stops. I believe this is a compile time option. Now, to make effective use of this caching, CPython will use a few tricks to try to identify when one of the small ints appears in the code. If it can identify it, I will replace the object creation with a reference to the in-cache object. The exact times when this can happen are not -- to my knowledge -- documented anywhere. Now you might ask why Python doesn't realize that, in code like my code snippet above, it could simply reuse the same int object for a, b, and c. Conceivably it could, but it would require enormous energies to check all currently existing objects for one that happens to be equal to what you need (and is not mutable if that's relevant) and it's simply faster to create the new int. Michael -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Ferrous Cranus supp...@superhost.gr wrote: On 16/6/2013 2:13 μμ, Jussi Piitulainen wrote: If, instead of the above, you have a = 6 b = a b = 5 you will find that b == 5 and a == 6. So b is not the same as a. Else one would have changed when the other changed. I would say that a and b are different variables. They had the same value, briefly. If they were different variables then they would have different memory addresses and they would act like two different objects. But... both a and b are for a fact mappings for the same memory address as seen form the following command. id(a) == id(b) True They are like the same object with 2 different names. This will depend on when the test is run: a = 6 b = a a is b # True b = 5 a is b # False The latter is false because the binding of b to the int 6 was broken in order to bind b to the int 5. I might also suggest you restrain from trying to correct respondents on these matters until you yourself understand them. It's only polite. Michael -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: My son wants me to teach him Python
On Thursday, June 13, 2013 11:05:00 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
Chris, a GUI interface can be created for *ANY* command line
functionality. By utilizing the GUI you can be more
productive because a point and a click are always faster
than peck-peck-peck * INFINITY.
For instance, if i want to start a certain program (or func)
on the commandline, first i will need to know what commands
are available. To see these commands i must *FIRST* type a
command. On the windows box that command would be help.
Now hopefully the command list will fit within the console's
buffer capacity, or else i need to enter a page buffer mode
(SOMEBODY KILL ME NOW!!!).
This is where the GUI shines!
When i choose to open my system tools gui (instead of the
antiquated text only console), a list of commands will be
displayed in a nice list box with scroll-bars that have near
unlimited capacity to scroll. All i need to do is point
and click and this magical piece of software runs
another GUI program for that specific task or tool.
Also - Show me an efficient way, with a GUI, to invoke any
file with any program with any parameters, without
cheating and using something like Alt-F2 to enter a
command line. Your solution must be utterly generic. I
need to be able to tail -F and tail -f a file.
Just because you lack the graphical tools on your machine,
or the skill to create those graphical tools on your
machine, does not mean the rest of us are as incapable.
Note: The following solution requires you to have a windows
OS, if you are using anything else, then you should be geeky
enough to roll your own solution!
## BEGIN SCRIPT ##
# Python Version 3.0 only!
import sys, os
import Tkinter as tk
import tkSimpleDialog, tkMessageBox
msg1 = 'Greetings master, by what method shall i execute {0}?'
msg2 = \
And the master sayeth:
{0}
So it is written, so shall it be done
ivalue = some/path/to/nowhere.txt -opt1=foo -opt2=bar
def prompt_master():
argv = sys.argv
path = argv[1]
fname = os.path.basename(path)
msg = msg1.format(fname)
argstr = tkSimpleDialog.askstring('',
msg,
initialvalue=ivalue,
parent=root
)
if argstr:
tkMessageBox.showinfo('', msg2.format(argstr),parent=root)
os.system('{0} {1}'.format(path, argstr))
root.destroy()
if __name__ == '__main__':
root = tk.Tk()
root.withdraw()
prompt_master()
root.mainloop()
## END SCRIPT ##
Save that code in a file named PepsiChallenge.py, then
throw that script in your Send To folder and it
magically becomes accessible from the SendTo command of
the windows context menu. If you don't know where to find
your windows send to folder then ask my good friend
Google.
To use, simply open your windows file browser, navigate to a
file icon, right click the file, and send it to the
PepsiChallenge script.
By doing this we've harnessed the power of an existing GUI
without actually writing all the GUI code. But more
importantly we've won the challenge :-P
*school-bell*
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Using Python to automatically boot my computer at a specific time and play a podcast
Hi, I'm planning to buy a Macbook Air and I want to use it as a sort of alarm. I'd like to write a program that boots my computer at a specific time, loads iTunes, and starts playing a podcast. Is this sort of thing possible in Python? Thanks in advance. CND -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python to automatically boot my computer at a specific time and play a podcast
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:06:08 -0700, C. N. Desrosiers wrote: Hi, I'm planning to buy a Macbook Air and I want to use it as a sort of alarm. I'd like to write a program that boots my computer at a specific time, If your computer is turned off, how is the program supposed to run? -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python to automatically boot my computer at a specific time and play a podcast
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:06 PM, C. N. Desrosiers cndesrosi...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I'm planning to buy a Macbook Air and I want to use it as a sort of alarm. I'd like to write a program that boots my computer at a specific time, loads iTunes, and starts playing a podcast. Is this sort of thing possible in Python? Thanks in advance. Since Macs run a version of Unix underneath you can write a cron job to get things started at a specific time. I'm not sure about the iTunes interface. Have you researched to see if it has and API? If it does, likely python could handle that. CND -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Joel Goldstick http://joelgoldstick.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Compiling vs interpreting [was Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.]
Whats the difference of interpreting to compiling ? OK, I give up! Actually, that's a more subtle question than most people think. Python, for example, is a compiled language. (What did you think the c in .pyc files stood for? and the compile() function?) Careful there. This terminology is not agreed upon universally (that is, within the realm of academia where the notion of mastery exists), and unless you are citing an actual reference or publishing one yourself, then you may be adding more confusion than illumination. For example, I would say that it is an *interpreted language* that gets compiled at run-time. Some (*valid*) definitions of compiler mean a strict mapping from the language syntax and lexical definition to a sequence of bytes that can be fed to a (hardware not virtual) machine architecture to do perform what is requested. The face that an extension ends in the letter c is not sufficient evidence, since file extensions have no strict standard. And these days, for many types of hardware, even machine-code is often interpreted by a virtual machine on a chip. And even languages which compile to machine-code often use an intermediate platform-independent form rather than targeting pure machine-code. Do you have a reference for this? What language? The line between compilers and interpreters is quite fuzzy. It shouldn't be. What is fuzzy is the definition of interpreter, however. The definition of compiler has only become fuzzy with the advent of the personal computer. Probably the best definition I've seen for the difference between a modern compiler and interpreter is this one: ...the distinguishing feature of interpreted languages is not that they are not compiled, but that the compiler is part of the language runtime and that, therefore, it is possible (and easy) to execute code generated on the fly. That's reasonable. -- MarkJ Tacoma, Washington -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python to automatically boot my computer at a specific time and play a podcast
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:06:08 -0700, C. N. Desrosiers wrote: Hi, I'm planning to buy a Macbook Air and I want to use it as a sort of alarm. I'd like to write a program that boots my computer at a specific time, If your computer is turned off, how is the program supposed to run? I was thinking maybe it could in some sleep mode that still ran cron jobs. but I am totally guessing that. If its OFF off then you might need another computer attached to a robot arm that could push the on button first! -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Joel Goldstick http://joelgoldstick.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python to automatically boot my computer at a specific time and play a podcast
On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:06 PM, C. N. Desrosiers cndesrosi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm planning to buy a Macbook Air and I want to use it as a sort of alarm. I'd like to write a program that boots my computer at a specific time, loads iTunes, and starts playing a podcast. Under preferences, take a look at Energy Saver - Power Adapter - Schedule - Start up or wake. Alternatively, the command line utility pmset allows one to access the same functionalities. Is this sort of thing possible in Python? Sure. But why bother? All at one's finger tip already... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python to automatically boot my computer at a specific time and play a podcast
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:06 PM, C. N. Desrosiers cndesrosi...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I'm planning to buy a Macbook Air and I want to use it as a sort of alarm. I'd like to write a program that boots my computer at a specific time, loads iTunes, and starts playing a podcast. Is this sort of thing possible in Python? Python cannot do this by itself, as has already been mentioned. If you're using a Mac, you can schedule your computer to turn on (and/or off) using System Preferences-Energy Saver-Schedule... Then run a Python script in a cron job. In fact, you could do this in bash ;) HTH, Jason -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Compiling vs interpreting [was Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.]
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:31:59 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote: Whats the difference of interpreting to compiling ? OK, I give up! Actually, that's a more subtle question than most people think. Python, for example, is a compiled language. (What did you think the c in .pyc files stood for? and the compile() function?) Careful there. This terminology is not agreed upon universally Which is why I said it was a more subtle question than most people think. Most people think that there is One True Definition of compiling/ interpreting, usually based on an over-simplified model of program execution that was obsolete in the 1970s. (that is, within the realm of academia where the notion of mastery exists), The notion of mastery exists in many places, not just academia. and unless you are citing an actual reference or publishing one yourself, then you may be adding more confusion than illumination. For example, I would say that it is an *interpreted language* that gets compiled at run-time. Apart from the contradiction there -- if it is compiled, why do you insist on calling it interpreted? -- you would be wrong. Languages are neither interpreted nor compiled. Languages are abstract entities that describe what syntax is permitted, and what functionality is provided. It is only concrete implementations which are interpreted or compiled. In the case of Python, we have: CPython: compiled to byte-code for it's own virtual machine; Jython: compiled to byte-code for the JRE; IronPython: compiled to byte-code for the .Net runtime; PyPy: JIT compiler that generates machine code; Nuitka: static compiler that generates machine code; etc. So, the answer to the question Is Python compiled or interpreted? is, Yes. [...] And these days, for many types of hardware, even machine-code is often interpreted by a virtual machine on a chip. And even languages which compile to machine-code often use an intermediate platform-independent form rather than targeting pure machine-code. Do you have a reference for this? What language? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode The line between compilers and interpreters is quite fuzzy. It shouldn't be. Of course it should be, because that reflects reality. What is fuzzy is the definition of interpreter, however. The definition of compiler has only become fuzzy with the advent of the personal computer. Incorrect. Lisp predates the PC, and it is a good example of a language with implementations which combine features of compile-to-machine-code and execute-high-level-code-at-run-time (i.e. both compiler and interpreter behaviour, at the same time). Lisp is nearly as old as Fortran. Forth is another such language. It's not quite so old as Lisp, but it is especially interesting because Forth includes commands to switch from compile mode to interpret mode on the fly. So is it a compiler or an interpreter? Yes. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Don't feed the troll...
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:16:34 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote: You are trying to get it both ways. On the one hand you try to argue that there are no boundaries I have never, ever argued that there are no boundaries. I have repeatedly made it clear to Nikos when I thought he was behaving improperly. And I've done the same to others when they've acted improperly. to what is acceptable by calling people who do try to enforce such boundaries the Internet Police. On the other hand you do suggest that playing Internet Police is out of bound behaviour. Yes. Trying to start flame wars with Nikos is unacceptable behaviour. It is unproductive, it makes this a hostile, unpleasant place to be, it ruins the environment for the rest of the community, it's off topic, and it simply doesn't work to discourage trolls. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Timsort in Cpython
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:05 PM, alphons...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I've read it. Very interesting read. There are other resources too online that make it very clear, for instance the wikipedia articles is pretty good. Though, if anyone would be interested in helping me out further -- though by all means, I'm not lazy, I can figure it myself. But, I wanted to pass in variables into listsort and watch timsort work line by line in gdb. listsort(PyListObject *self, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwds) I've never worked with Cpython source before, but it looks like PyObject is just some type of general strut.. I think anyway. How does python represent a list of ints in source? and what are the two second arguments for, assuming the first is the list strut. A PyObject* generally references any Python object. The subtype PyListObject* more specifically references a Python list. The above signature corresponds to this Python function signature: def listsort(self, *args, **kwds): The first argument self is the list object to be operated on. The second argument args is a Python tuple containing any other positional arguments that were passed into the method. The third argument kwds is a Python dict containing any keyword arguments that were passed into the method. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python to automatically boot my computer at a specific time and play a podcast
Thank you! On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Jason Swails jason.swa...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 3:06 PM, C. N. Desrosiers cndesrosi...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I'm planning to buy a Macbook Air and I want to use it as a sort of alarm. I'd like to write a program that boots my computer at a specific time, loads iTunes, and starts playing a podcast. Is this sort of thing possible in Python? Python cannot do this by itself, as has already been mentioned. If you're using a Mac, you can schedule your computer to turn on (and/or off) using System Preferences-Energy Saver-Schedule... Then run a Python script in a cron job. In fact, you could do this in bash ;) HTH, Jason -- Christian Nicolás Desrosiers Master of City Planning candidate School of Architecture + Planning Massachusetts Institute of Technology t. 717 860 6252 e. c...@mit.edu www.twitter.com/cndesrosiers -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: My son wants me to teach him Python
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:04 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Chris, a GUI interface can be created for *ANY* command line functionality. By utilizing the GUI you can be more productive because a point and a click are always faster than peck-peck-peck * INFINITY. Okay... I'm trying to get my head around what you've done here. Isn't it simply that you've made a way to, with what looks like a point-and-click interface, let the user type in a command line? Or even worse, force them to edit a file to change the command used? That already exists - as I mentioned, several desktop environments have Alt-F2 to let you type in any program and run it. That's no more using a GUI than bringing up a terminal is. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python to automatically boot my computer at a specific time and play a podcast
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:06 AM, C. N. Desrosiers cndesrosi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'm planning to buy a Macbook Air and I want to use it as a sort of alarm. I'd like to write a program that boots my computer at a specific time, loads iTunes, and starts playing a podcast. Is this sort of thing possible in Python? Python *on the system itself* cannot do this. However, if the BIOS features aren't enough (eg if you want more flexibility), there's one option to explore. See if your Macbook has Wake-On-LAN support; with that, you could have a Python script *on a different machine* send a magic packet that wakes your target. However, this isn't a Python question, it's a systems administration one. (The very specific question How can I trigger wake-on-LAN from a Python program would be a Python question (obviously!), but that's only a tiny part of your problem.) ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Compiling vs interpreting [was Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.]
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:31:59 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote: The line between compilers and interpreters is quite fuzzy. It shouldn't be. Of course it should be, because that reflects reality. It's fuzzy AND it seldom even matters. Compare these three text strings: '' 'a'*64 \37\213\b\b*8\276Q\0\3test\0KL\244\f\0\0Ue\264\211@\0\0\0 \x78\xda\x4b\x4c\xa4\x0c\0\0\x14\x8d\x18\x41 Which of these is an interpreted program? I would say: All of them. And they all produce the same output, a series of 64 copies of the letter a. The third one is interpreted by gzip(1) and will create a file called 'test', the fourth is a raw gzip/zlib stream and so is interpreted by (eg) the Python zlib.decompress() function. They're all languages, of a sort. Are they interpreted/compiled versions of that message? Kinda. If you prepend a sfx header to them, do they become compiled and not interpreted? Doubtful. I don't think you could say that this ceases to be interpreted: import zlib print(zlib.decompress( \x78\xda\x4b\x4c\xa4\x0c\0\0\x14\x8d\x18\x41 )) Even if you manually imported the code for zlib.decompress, in a way that makes it impossible for your cut-down program to actually compress data (which then breaks the principle quoted from Programming in Lua), it's still fairly clearly being interpreted/parsed the exact same way. So it really doesn't matter (so it really doesn't matter (so it really doesn't matter)). [1] ChrisA [1] http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/ruddigore/web_opera/rudd24.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: My son wants me to teach him Python
On Sunday, June 16, 2013 4:52:16 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote: Okay... I'm trying to get my head around what you've done here. Isn't it simply that you've made a way to, with what looks like a point-and-click interface, let the user type in a command line? [...] That's no more using a GUI than bringing up a terminal is. Yes, a Graphical Interface will need the occasional peck-peck input from the user, the only difference from a text based interface is the INFINITY multiplier. The Graphical Interface prefers the point and click, but NOT exclusively! The Graphical Interface allows you apply the most efficient method by which to solve a problem -- again, that might be peck-peck or point-click, OR, a combination of both. Depends on the situation really. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?
On Jun 16, 10:10 am, Steven D'Aprano steve +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: Congratulation. You have just entered an extremely exclusive club. See you in a month. *plonk* So yours are the only pissy one-liner responses that shouldn't be taken off-list? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why 'files.py' does not print the filenames into a table format?
On 17/06/2013 01:04, alex23 wrote: On Jun 16, 10:10 am, Steven D'Aprano steve +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: Congratulation. You have just entered an extremely exclusive club. See you in a month. *plonk* So yours are the only pissy one-liner responses that shouldn't be taken off-list? I suggest caution, Big Brother is watching *YOU* :) -- Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green. Snooker commentator 'Whispering' Ted Lowe. Mark Lawrence -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Imports (in Py3), please help a novice
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 4:46 AM, John Ladasky john_lada...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I was trying to RTFM linearly, beginning (naturally) at the beginning Alas, the King of Hearts's good advice [1] doesn't work so well with large documentation. :) It seems distutils is rather more complicated than could be desired; but wasn't there a project a while ago to simplify all that mess? Or was distutils the result of that, and it used to be worse? ChrisA [1] To the White Rabbit - http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Alice%27s_Adventures_in_Wonderland/Chapter_12#182 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: C vs Python terminology
On 06/16/2013 11:02 AM, Andreas Perstinger wrote: On 16.06.2013 14:55, Dave Angel wrote: On 06/16/2013 07:22 AM, Andreas Perstinger wrote: SNIP But it doesn't. It binds b to the same object to which a is currently bound. Are you aware that Denis was talking about the behaviour of C in the above quote? Nope, missed that. Sorry for the noise. -- DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Don't feed the troll...
On 06/16/2013 02:04 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:16:34 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote: You are trying to get it both ways. On the one hand you try to argue that there are no boundaries I have never, ever argued that there are no boundaries. I have repeatedly made it clear to Nikos when I thought he was behaving improperly. And I've done the same to others when they've acted improperly. to what is acceptable by calling people who do try to enforce such boundaries the Internet Police. On the other hand you do suggest that playing Internet Police is out of bound behaviour. Yes. Trying to start flame wars with Nikos is unacceptable behaviour. It is unproductive, it makes this a hostile, unpleasant place to be, it ruins the environment for the rest of the community, it's off topic, and it simply doesn't work to discourage trolls. The difficulty with trying to suppress such responses is that the flamers get just as much pleasure from having a target to unrestrainedly spew their pent up anger and vile at, as the troll gets from simulating that reaction. The result is a positive feedback loop. I could be wrong but I don't think Nikos is a pure troll -- someone motivated purely by provoking reaction and discord. He has a real website and his problems with Python seem like genuine problems many beginners have. He seems to have little knowledge, not much concern for anyone else but a lot of determination to get things working. I have certainly known people like that in the real world. I speculate that half of his bad behavior is simple I want now and don't care about your conventions. The rest is a reaction to we're the alphas, your a beta attitude expressed by many here and later, overt hostility directed at him. He has changed some things -- his posting method, he's made an effort to understand his encoding issues, etc. So I think Steven's approach of responding to his questions, at least those that are coherent and don't require reading a dozen posts over several threads to piece together, with an actual attempt to help (not a bunch of obscure hints, links to wikipedia, and you're an idiot replies) is right. If Nikos fails to respond with better questions, then those that do answer will get tired of trying to help and stop answering. In the meantime everyone else can just killfile or otherwise ignore him rather than egging him on by intentionally provoking him (unless of course you enjoy the results.) So positive reinforcement for less bad behavior, negative reinforcement (which for trolling is NO response, not negative responses) for more bad. Standard behavioral conditioning. And if it doesn't work it will still be a much nicer and quieter here with only Nikos' trolling than with 10x as much garbage from the local vigilantes who are more obnoxious than he. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Don't feed the troll...
On 17/6/2013 6:46 πμ, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: I could be wrong but I don't think Nikos is a pure troll -- someone motivated purely by provoking reaction and discord. He has a real website and his problems with Python seem like genuine problems many beginners have. He seems to have little knowledge, not much concern for anyone else but a lot of determination to get things working. I have certainly known people like that in the real world. This is the best definition of me. It is very nice to see that someone has understood my character and intentions. The only thing i'm feeling guilty is that instead of reading help files and PEP's which seem too technical for me, i prefer the live help of an actual expert human being. An yes, i'm not trolling this fine newsgroup. If it wasn't for the help of some of the nicest fellows here my site would be up and working neither with Python 3.3.2 nor with 2.6. Many difficulties that occurred to me when trying to write some code were addresses here making my website actually happen. I could have made it to Joomla(that's web design) instead of Python(web development_ but i really like Python and the reason i ask in detail is because i don't want only provided code that will help address an issue i have, but i want to know how things work. Thanks for understanding me ruspy. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A certainl part of an if() structure never gets executed.
On 16/6/2013 9:53 μμ, R. Michael Weylandt wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Ferrous Cranus supp...@superhost.gr wrote: On 16/6/2013 2:13 μμ, Jussi Piitulainen wrote: If, instead of the above, you have a = 6 b = a b = 5 you will find that b == 5 and a == 6. So b is not the same as a. Else one would have changed when the other changed. I would say that a and b are different variables. They had the same value, briefly. If they were different variables then they would have different memory addresses and they would act like two different objects. But... both a and b are for a fact mappings for the same memory address as seen form the following command. id(a) == id(b) True They are like the same object with 2 different names. This will depend on when the test is run: a = 6 b = a a is b # True b = 5 a is b # False The latter is false because the binding of b to the int 6 was broken in order to bind b to the int 5. Very surprising. a and b was *references* to the same memory address, it was like a memory address having 2 names to be addresses as. b = a name we use to address some memory location, do we agree on that? So, b = 6, must have changed the stored value of its mapped memory location, but given you example it seems its changing the mapping of b to some other memory address. I don't follow its act of course. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Don't feed the troll...
On Jun 16, 12:54 am, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: ... killfile him and shut the fuck up. Ok. Advice taken. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
[issue18219] csv.DictWriter is slow when writing files with large number of columns
Mikhail Traskin added the comment: Any way is fine with me. If you prefer to avoid having public filedset property, please use the attached patch. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30605/csvdictwriter.v2.patch ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18219 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18227] Use Python memory allocators in external libraries like zlib or OpenSSL
Changes by Aaron Iles aaron.i...@gmail.com: -- nosy: +aliles ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18227 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18203] Replace direct calls to malloc() with PyMem_Malloc() or PyMem_RawMalloc()
Changes by Aaron Iles aaron.i...@gmail.com: -- nosy: +aliles ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18203 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18229] attribute headers of http.server.BaseHTTPRequestHandler sometimes does not exists
New submission from Jordan Szubert:
it seems that problem is someone connecting to port 8080 with non-http client,
could not find warning in documentation
---fragment of `less access.log`
81.172.30.254 - - [16/Jun/2013 11:36:58] ^SBitTorrent protocol^@^@^@^@^@^X^@^Ej
81.172.30.254 - - [16/Jun/2013 11:38:11] ^NU+008E^@f¸ãÄòQ;³xU+0092b^C^HÄA7
81.172.30.254 - - [16/Jun/2013 11:39:22] ^SBitTorrent protocol^@^@^@^@^@^X^@^Ej
81.172.30.254 - - [16/Jun/2013 11:40:35] ÃU+008D¬0æzU+0093zr^DU+009B2]WQ
Exception happened during processing of request from ('81.172.30.254', 63650)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File c:\Python33\lib\socketserver.py, line 306, in _handle_request_noblock
self.process_request(request, client_address)
File c:\Python33\lib\socketserver.py, line 332, in process_request
self.finish_request(request, client_address)
File c:\Python33\lib\socketserver.py, line 345, in finish_request
self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
File c:\Python33\lib\socketserver.py, line 666, in __init__
self.handle()
File c:\Python33\lib\http\server.py, line 400, in handle
self.handle_one_request()
File c:\Python33\lib\http\server.py, line 380, in handle_one_request
if not self.parse_request():
File c:\Python33\lib\http\server.py, line 283, in parse_request
self.send_error(400, Bad request version (%r) % version)
File c:\Python33\lib\http\server.py, line 428, in send_error
self.send_response(code, message)
File c:\Python33\lib\http\server.py, line 443, in send_response
self.log_request(code)
File c:\Users\joru\Dropbox\programowanie\demoniszcze\server\_lowerHTTP.py,
line 30, in log_request
xff=req.headers.get('X-Forwarded-For')
AttributeError: '_HNDL_3' object has no attribute 'headers'
# _HNLD_3 derives from http.server.BaseHTTPRequestHandler
--
assignee: docs@python
components: Documentation
messages: 191264
nosy: docs@python, joru
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: attribute headers of http.server.BaseHTTPRequestHandler sometimes does
not exists
type: behavior
versions: Python 3.3
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http://bugs.python.org/issue18229
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[issue18197] insufficient error checking causes crash on windows
Nick Coghlan added the comment: Closing this on the assumption the bug is in the extension. Feel free to reopen if further investigation shows a problem in the interpreter core. -- nosy: +ncoghlan resolution: - invalid stage: - committed/rejected status: open - closed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18197 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18081] test_logging failure in WarningsTest on buildbots
Brett Cannon added the comment: Seems to be fairly consistent on Windows but more random on Linux. I have also triggered it on my OS X machine randomly. Can't tell if it's a timing issue or some other test doing something bad. I'm worried solving it is going to require taking one of the failing instance's list of tests and then slowly pruning it down to find the trigger (if it's not a timing thing). -- nosy: +brett.cannon ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18081 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18081] test_logging failure in WarningsTest on buildbots
Brett Cannon added the comment: Found the test cases to cause this:: ./python.exe -m test test_idle test_logging Adding Roger and Terry to see if they happen to remember any of the IDLE tests using logging or warnings in a way that could cause this. P.S.: I thought we had a script somewhere which helped do a binary search for what tests cause a failure but I can't find it. Am I imagining things? -- nosy: +kbk, roger.serwy, terry.reedy ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18081 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18113] Memory leak in curses.panel
Serhiy Storchaka added the comment: There is a problem with this patch. Py_XDECREF can execute arbitrary Python code and this code can call set_panel_userptr. Here is a reproducer (it causes segfault). -- resolution: fixed - stage: committed/rejected - commit review status: closed - open Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30606/userptr-segfault.py ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18113 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18113] Memory leak in curses.panel
Serhiy Storchaka added the comment: And here is a patch which fixes a segfault. But I can't write a test for it. -- keywords: +patch Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30607/userptr_segfault.patch ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18113 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue13886] readline-related test_builtin failure
Brett Cannon added the comment: Issue #18230 is another test_builtin failure related to tty tests. -- nosy: +brett.cannon ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue13886 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18230] test_builtin fails/hangs when run after test_getopt
New submission from Brett Cannon: If you run test_builtin after test_getopt it will hang. If you run test_getopt test_socket test_builtin it will fail in all tty-related tests for input(). Not sure if this is related to issue #17734 or #13886. -- components: Library (Lib) messages: 191270 nosy: brett.cannon priority: normal severity: normal stage: needs patch status: open title: test_builtin fails/hangs when run after test_getopt type: behavior versions: Python 3.3, Python 3.4 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18230 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue17734] Failure when running test_builtin after test_genexps
Brett Cannon added the comment: Issue #18230 is another test_builtin failure related to tty tests. -- nosy: +brett.cannon ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue17734 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue17734] Failure when running test_builtin after test_genexps
Changes by Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com: -- nosy: +Arfrever ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue17734 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18230] test_builtin fails/hangs when run after test_getopt
Changes by Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis arfrever@gmail.com: -- nosy: +Arfrever ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18230 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue14015] surrogateescape largely missing from documentation
Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 55f611f55952 by Andrew Kuchling in branch '3.3': Describe 'surrogateescape' in the documentation. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/55f611f55952 -- nosy: +python-dev resolution: - fixed stage: - committed/rejected status: open - closed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue14015 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue17177] Deprecate imp
Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 1b8f08c4efd5 by Brett Cannon in branch 'default': Issue #17177: The imp module is pending deprecation. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/1b8f08c4efd5 -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue17177 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue17177] Deprecate imp
Changes by Brett Cannon br...@python.org: -- resolution: - fixed status: open - closed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue17177 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18176] Builtins documentation refers to old version of UCD.
Changes by Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com: Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30608/bd092995907c.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18176 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18176] Builtins documentation refers to old version of UCD.
Alexander Belopolsky added the comment: Here is what grep revealed: $ find Doc -name \*.rst | xargs grep -n '6\.2\.0' Doc/library/stdtypes.rst:357: See http://www.unicode.org/Public/6.2.0/ucd/extracted/DerivedNumericType.txt Doc/library/unicodedata.rst:18:this database is compiled from the `UCD version 6.2.0 Doc/library/unicodedata.rst:19:http://www.unicode.org/Public/6.2.0/ucd`_. Doc/library/unicodedata.rst:169:.. [#] http://www.unicode.org/Public/6.2.0/ucd/NameAliases.txt Doc/library/unicodedata.rst:171:.. [#] http://www.unicode.org/Public/6.2.0/ucd/NamedSequences.txt I added a note next to UNIDATA_VERSION = 6.2.0 in makeunicodedata.py script. The makeunicodedata.py would be a place to put code that would update the docs automatically, but with only two affected files I don't think this is worth the effort. Chances are at least unicodedata.rst will benefit from a manual review to reflect any substantive changes in the UCD. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18176 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18223] Refactor test_tarfile
Serhiy Storchaka added the comment: Oh, sorry, I missed issue17689. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18223 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18081] test_logging failure in WarningsTest on buildbots
Terry J. Reedy added the comment: test_idle, which runs the tests in idlelib/idle_test, currently comprises 9 test methods and perhaps 100 lines that do not, as far as I know, use warnings or logging. However, perhaps this has an effect: F:\Python\dev\cpython\PCbuildpython_d -m test test_idle [1/1] test_idle Warning -- os.environ was modified by test_idle Warning -- locale was modified by test_idle 1 test altered the execution environment: test_idle Of course, the idle test code itself does no such modification. So I have no idea what the warning is about or how to stop it. F:\Python\dev\cpython\PCbuildpython_d -m test.test_idle which runs under unittest, does not produce the warning. The other test files that use tcl/tk/tkinter, test_tcl, test_tk, test_ttk_guionly, and test_ttk_textonly, produce the os.environ warning but not the locale warning. I duplicated the failure with the command you gave. Substituting _tcl or _tk for _idle removes the error. So perhaps the locale alteration, however it happens, is the problem. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18081 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18231] What's new in Python should explain what's new in UCD
New submission from Alexander Belopolsky: At the minimum, we should refer to unicode.org: http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.1.0/#Database_Changes (for Python 3.3), http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.2.0/#Database_Changes (for Python 3.4). We may also want to highlight changes that directly affect python programs. For example addition of new characters accepted as decimal digits in UCD 6.1.0. -- assignee: docs@python messages: 191278 nosy: belopolsky, docs@python priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: What's new in Python should explain what's new in UCD versions: Python 3.3, Python 3.4 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18231 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18231] What's new in Python should explain what's new in UCD
Changes by Ezio Melotti ezio.melo...@gmail.com: -- components: +Documentation keywords: +easy nosy: +ezio.melotti stage: - needs patch type: - enhancement ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18231 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18231] What's new in Python should explain what's new in UCD
Alexander Belopolsky added the comment:
Here is another change that I think deserves an explicit mention in What's
New:
Python 3.3.2
exec('a\u17B4 = 5')
eval('a\u17B4')
5
Python 3.2.5
exec('a\u17B4 = 5')
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in module
File string, line 1
a឴ = 5
^
SyntaxError: invalid character in identifier
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