Re: RE Module Performance
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 08:46:58 -0700, wxjmfauth wrote: BTW, I'm pleased to read sequence of bits and not bytes. Again, utf transformers are producing sequence of bits, call Unicode Transformation Units, with lengths of 8/16/32 *bits*, from there the names utf8/16/32. UCS transformers are (were) producing bytes, from there the names ucs-2/4. Not only does your distinction between bits and bytes make no practical difference on nearly all hardware in common use today[1], but the Unicode Consortium disagrees with you, and defines UTC in terms of bytes: A Unicode transformation format (UTF) is an algorithmic mapping from every Unicode code point (except surrogate code points) to a unique byte sequence. http://www.unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.html#gen2 [1] There may still be some old supercomputers where a byte is more than 8 bits in use, but they're unlikely to support Unicode. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Contact information for Jim Hugunin?
On 2013-07-24, Albert Hopkins mar...@letterboxes.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2013, at 05:33 PM, Larry Hastings wrote: Does anybody have an email address (or anything, really) for Jim Hugunin? He left Google in May and appears to have dropped off the face of the internet. Please email me privately. I swear I will use the information only for good and never for evil, Is that your definition of good and evil or mine? After all, Google has its own definition! -- maus . . ... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
Linux systems with the proper software can use the notify-send command. Is there a cross-platform Python3 equivalent? Mahalo, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Linux systems with the proper software can use the notify-send command. Is there a cross-platform Python3 equivalent? Mahalo, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list You already asked this on Thursday. And the answer is probably “no”. Creating Under X11-based systems, you would have to call the dbus notification APIs and pray that the user has something to handle it running (KDE, GNOME Shell, XFCE4’s notification daemon). Under Mac OS X 10.7 and further, you need to work with some system APIs, and that may not be easy, but possible (eg. https://github.com/alloy/terminal-notifier for Ruby). But Windows? GOOD LUCK! The following options exist, none of which is easy to implement, and one of which is not usable with most clients: a) Toast Notifications in Windows 8/Server 2012, which is not a popular platform and may require quite a lot of magic in terms of coding and else (VS2012); b) Create a tray icon and do a balloon (2000 and up?, definitely in XP); c) Create your very own Windows toast notifications framework. -- Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick http://kwpolska.tk PGP: 5EAAEA16 stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
Whoops! On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick kwpol...@gmail.com wrote: You already asked this on Thursday. And the answer is probably “no”. Creating …a solution for this is not the easiest thing one can do. -- Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick http://kwpolska.tk PGP: 5EAAEA16 stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Best Python book(s) for a pre-teen?
Hi, Start Here: Python 3x Programming Made Fun and Easier is a very easy to understand beginners book. It also covers a basic introduction to software design, version systems, game logic and design, and packaging your first programs. I wrote this book originally for my two sons when I was home schooling them. You can download the first chapters, free version to try before you buy it at www.toonzcat.com/book.html Jody -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Which is the best book to learn python
On Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:09:31 AM UTC+8, sant wrote: Hi All, i am beginner to python please tell me which is the best available reference for beginner to start from novice A great up to date beginner's book/course is Start Here: Python 3x Programming, Made Fun and Easier. It introduces software design and makes everything very simple to understand. http://www.quantumsight.mobi Jody -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Q: Best book for teaching
On Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:34:55 AM UTC+8, John Yeung wrote: On Apr 6, 10:37 am, grkunt...@gmail.com wrote: I am considering teaching an introduction to programming course for continuing education adults at a local community college. These would people with no programming experience, but I will require a reasonable facility with computers. What would be a good book to use as the text for the course? For an extremely gentle introduction, perhaps take a look at _Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner_ by Michael Dawson: http://www.amazon.com/Python-Programming-Absolute-Beginner-Michael/dp/1592000738 A coworker of mine recently bought this book, which is how I found out about it. Besides assuming no programming experience, it tries to stay interesting through the use of simple games for its examples (eventually building up to the use of the popular pygame library). The writing style is definitely more fun than academic. John An up to date book that is great for a short 21 lesson course is; Start Here: Python 3x Programming Made Fun and Easier by Jody S. Ginther. This is a good beginning programming course that introduces the entire process of software design including; version systems, planning, logic, and packaging. It takes a newbie from ground zero to making arcade style games complete with sound, music, graphics, and an creating an installation package in only 21 easy to follow lessons. You can find it at http://www.quantum-sight.com Jody -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
On 07/27/2013 07:30 AM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote: On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Linux systems with the proper software can use the notify-send command. Is there a cross-platform Python3 equivalent? Mahalo, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list You already asked this on Thursday. And the answer is probably “no”. Creating Under X11-based systems, you would have to call the dbus notification APIs and pray that the user has something to handle it running (KDE, GNOME Shell, XFCE4’s notification daemon). Under Mac OS X 10.7 and further, you need to work with some system APIs, and that may not be easy, but possible (eg. https://github.com/alloy/terminal-notifier for Ruby). But Windows? GOOD LUCK! The following options exist, none of which is easy to implement, and one of which is not usable with most clients: a) Toast Notifications in Windows 8/Server 2012, which is not a popular platform and may require quite a lot of magic in terms of coding and else (VS2012); b) Create a tray icon and do a balloon (2000 and up?, definitely in XP); c) Create your very own Windows toast notifications framework. That really sucks. I was hoping Python had some way of doing that. All that it needs to do is display a little box at one of the corners of the screen. I thought someone would have implemented something by now. Thank you anyway. Mahalo, DCJ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: My son wants me to teach him Python
Hi, I am an IT and Learning Research professor. I wrote a set of lessons that became a beginning programming book for my two sons. They loved it because is it was simple, hands on, and funny. It covers the basics of programming, introducing; software design, planning a game, making/getting free assets, version systems, and packaging. This course takes the beginner from ground zero to making arcade style games complete with sound, music, graphics, and an installation package in 21 lessons. It also includes vast resources in the index. It is called; Start Here: Python 3x Programming Made Fun and Easier, and can be found at http://www.quantumsight.mobi or http://www.toonzcat.com/book.html This site also introduces graphics for web sites, animation, and games. J.S.G, PhD -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: programming course
Hi, A good step by step easy book on Python is: Start Here: Python 3x Programming Made Fun and Easier, at http://www.quantum-sight.com Aliencat -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote: That really sucks. I was hoping Python had some way of doing that. All that it needs to do is display a little box at one of the corners of the screen. I thought someone would have implemented something by now. Thank you anyway. Despite the best efforts of a pretty talented core dev team, Python is not yet capable of magic :) If you browse the python-dev archives, you'll see how much of a nightmare cross-platform compatibility can be (eg the recent discussion on cloexec and passing file descriptors to subprocesses); often, what you might think (from a user's point of view) is fairly trivial will turn out to be quite tricky. That said, though, a lot of GUI toolkits will have a means for you to highlight a window. In GTK, it's called present (as in, Lord User, may I present Sir Window and Mrs Window?). There may be window managers that don't support the feature (and there are certainly those that let the user disable it, which you should respect), but AFAIK all of them should at least accept the command. http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/class-gtkwindow.html#method-gtkwindow--present So your best bet may be to simply create yourself a small window, then present it. On Windows XP, I think that'll flash the window in the task bar, which is usually enough highlight. On my Debian Wheezy with Xfce, it brings the window to the top of the Z-order, and optionally moves it to the current workspace (user's option, NOT program's). ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On 07/26/2013 10:48 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
As requested, some constructive criticism of your module.
On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:24:30 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote:
#!/usr/bin/python3
#Made by Devyn Collier Johnson, NCLA, Linux+, LPIC-1, DCTS
What's NCLA, Linux+, LPIC-1, DCTS? Do these mean anything? Are we
supposed to know what they mean?
Made by has no legal significance. You probably want:
Copyright © 2013 Devyn Collier Johnson.
#Made using the Geany IDE
Nobody gives a monkey's toss what editor you used to type up the module.
You might as well mention the brand of monitor you used, or whether the
keyboard is Dvorak or Qwerty.
#LGPLv3
You can't just drop in a mention of LGPLv3 and expect it to mean
anything. You actually have to obey the licence yourself, and that
includes *actually including the licence in your work*. (You're
technically in violation of the licence at the moment, however since the
only person whose copyright you are infringing is yourself, it doesn't
matter. However anyone else using your code is at risk.)
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
In the case of the LGPL, you have to include the text of *both* the GPL
and the LGPL, not just one.
import re, sys, subprocess, platform
def grep(regex,textf):
#Sample Command: grep.grep(^x,dir()) #Syntax:
boash.grep(regexp_string,list_of_strings_to_search)
Comments using # are only of use to people reading the source code. If
you want comments to be available at the interactive prompt, you should
write them as doc strings:
def grep(regex, textf):
This string is a docstring.
Sample command: ...
Blah blah blah
Then, at the interactive prompt, the user can say:
help(boash.grep)
to read the docstring.
version = '0.2a'
That's quite useless, since it is a local variable invisible outside of
the function.
Also, why would you bother giving every individual function a version
number? That's rather pointless. The user cannot pick and choose function
A with version number 0.6 and function B with version number 0.7 if the
module provides versions 0.7 of both.
expr = re.compile(regex)
match = re.findall(expr, textf)
if match != None:
print(match)
When comparing with None, it is preferred to use is and is not rather
than equality tests.
def ls():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput('ls'))
def dir():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput('dir'))
A blank line or two between functions does wonders for readability. There
is no prize for conserving newlines.
You might like to read PEP 8, the Python style guide. It is optional, but
still makes a very good guide.
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
def bash(*arg):
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput(arg))
def shell(*arg):
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput(arg))
bash is not a synonym for shell. The shell might be sh, csh, bash, or
any one of many other shells, all of which are slightly (or not so
slightly) different.
def clear_bash_history():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput('history -c'))
[...]
Do you really need ten aliases for 'history -c'?
If you want to define aliases for a function, don't recreate the entire
function ten times. Start with defining the function once, then:
clear_bash_hist = clear_hist = clear_history = clear_bash_history
etc. But really, having ten names for the one function just confuses
people, who then wonder what subtle difference there is between
delete_history and clear_history.
def firefox():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.Popen('(firefox )'))
Is Firefox really so important that it needs a dedicated command?
What about Debian users? Doesn't Iceweasel get a command?
def xterm():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.Popen('(xterm )'))
Surely the user already has an xterm open, if they are running this
interactively? Why not just use your xterm's new window or new tab
command?
[...delete more trivial calls to subprocess...]
def repeat_cmd():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.Popen('!!'))
[... delete two exact copies of this function...]
def ejcd():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.Popen('eject cdrom1'))
[... delete FOURTEEN exact copies of this function...]
Really? Is anyone going to type eject_disc_tray instead of eject?
I think that will do.
This doesn't really do anything except define a large number of trivial
wrappers to commands already available in the shell. Emphasis on the
*trivial* -- with the exception of the grep wrapper, which is all of four
lines (ignoring the useless internal version number), every single one of
these wrapper functions is a one-liner.[1] In other words, you're not
adding any value to the shell commands by wrapping them in Python. There
are plenty of big, complex shell commands that take a plethora of options
and could do with
Re: Understanding other people's code
In article b023f6e6-a11d-4d05-a126-e3cc49cb3...@googlegroups.com, Azureaus lo0...@my.bristol.ac.uk wrote: On Friday, 12 July 2013 15:22:59 UTC+1, Azureaus wrote: SNIP To be fair to who programmed it, most functions are commented and I can't complain about the messiness of the code, It's actually very tidy. (I suppose Python forcing it's formatting is another reason it's an easily readable language!) Luckily not blanked import * were used otherwise I really would be up the creek without a paddle. If the code is really tidy, it is possible to understand a function using only the *documentation* (not the code itself) of any function or data it uses. In oo you also need a context about what an object is supposed to do. The next step is to proof for yourself that the function exactly does what is promised in its own documentation. And you get nowhere without domain knowledge. If you're in railways and don't know the difference between a normal and an English whathaveyou, then you're lost, plain and simple. Don't treat the original comment as sacred. Any time it is unclear rewrite it. You may get it wrong, but that's wat source control systems are for. If at all possible, if you add a statement about a function, try to add a test that proves that statement. Anytime you come across something that is unsufficiently documented, you document it tentatively yourself, keeping in mind that what you write down may be wrong. This does no harm! Because you must keep in mind that everything written by the original programmer may be wrong, there is actually no difference! Now study the places where it is called and check whether it makes sense. This an infinite process. After one round of improvements you have to go through everything again. I've got pretty bad stuff under control this way. You'll find bugs this way. They may or may not let you fix them. There is however not much point in working in by reading through the code. Time is probably better spent by running and studying, maybe creating test cases. Trying to understand any substantial code body in detail is a waste of time. For example: I once had to change the call code of the gcc compiler to be able to use a 68000 assembler library (regarding which register contain what data passed to the function). There is absolutely no point in studying the gcc compiler. You must have an overview then zoom in on the relevant part. In the end maybe only a couple of lines need change. A couple of days, and a pretty hairy problem was solved. (The assembler library was totally undocumented. Nobody even tried to study it. ). There is an indication that the original programmer made it all very easy and maybe you go about it not quite the right way. If you have a tower of abstractions, then you must *not* go down all the way to find out eactly what happens. You must pick a level in the middle and understand it in terms of usage, then understand what is on top of that in terms of that usage. That is how good programmers build there programs. Once there is a certain level they don't think about what's underneath, but concentrate on how to use it. If it is done really well, each source module can be understood on its own. All this is of course general, not just for Python. Thanks! -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spearc.xs4all.nl =n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On 07/26/2013 10:48 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
As requested, some constructive criticism of your module.
On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:24:30 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote:
#!/usr/bin/python3
#Made by Devyn Collier Johnson, NCLA, Linux+, LPIC-1, DCTS
What's NCLA, Linux+, LPIC-1, DCTS? Do these mean anything? Are we
supposed to know what they mean?
Made by has no legal significance. You probably want:
Copyright © 2013 Devyn Collier Johnson.
#Made using the Geany IDE
Nobody gives a monkey's toss what editor you used to type up the module.
You might as well mention the brand of monitor you used, or whether the
keyboard is Dvorak or Qwerty.
#LGPLv3
You can't just drop in a mention of LGPLv3 and expect it to mean
anything. You actually have to obey the licence yourself, and that
includes *actually including the licence in your work*. (You're
technically in violation of the licence at the moment, however since the
only person whose copyright you are infringing is yourself, it doesn't
matter. However anyone else using your code is at risk.)
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
In the case of the LGPL, you have to include the text of *both* the GPL
and the LGPL, not just one.
import re, sys, subprocess, platform
def grep(regex,textf):
#Sample Command: grep.grep(^x,dir()) #Syntax:
boash.grep(regexp_string,list_of_strings_to_search)
Comments using # are only of use to people reading the source code. If
you want comments to be available at the interactive prompt, you should
write them as doc strings:
def grep(regex, textf):
This string is a docstring.
Sample command: ...
Blah blah blah
Then, at the interactive prompt, the user can say:
help(boash.grep)
to read the docstring.
version = '0.2a'
That's quite useless, since it is a local variable invisible outside of
the function.
Also, why would you bother giving every individual function a version
number? That's rather pointless. The user cannot pick and choose function
A with version number 0.6 and function B with version number 0.7 if the
module provides versions 0.7 of both.
expr = re.compile(regex)
match = re.findall(expr, textf)
if match != None:
print(match)
When comparing with None, it is preferred to use is and is not rather
than equality tests.
def ls():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput('ls'))
def dir():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput('dir'))
A blank line or two between functions does wonders for readability. There
is no prize for conserving newlines.
You might like to read PEP 8, the Python style guide. It is optional, but
still makes a very good guide.
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
def bash(*arg):
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput(arg))
def shell(*arg):
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput(arg))
bash is not a synonym for shell. The shell might be sh, csh, bash, or
any one of many other shells, all of which are slightly (or not so
slightly) different.
def clear_bash_history():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.getoutput('history -c'))
[...]
Do you really need ten aliases for 'history -c'?
If you want to define aliases for a function, don't recreate the entire
function ten times. Start with defining the function once, then:
clear_bash_hist = clear_hist = clear_history = clear_bash_history
etc. But really, having ten names for the one function just confuses
people, who then wonder what subtle difference there is between
delete_history and clear_history.
def firefox():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.Popen('(firefox )'))
Is Firefox really so important that it needs a dedicated command?
What about Debian users? Doesn't Iceweasel get a command?
def xterm():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.Popen('(xterm )'))
Surely the user already has an xterm open, if they are running this
interactively? Why not just use your xterm's new window or new tab
command?
[...delete more trivial calls to subprocess...]
def repeat_cmd():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.Popen('!!'))
[... delete two exact copies of this function...]
def ejcd():
version = '0.3'
print(subprocess.Popen('eject cdrom1'))
[... delete FOURTEEN exact copies of this function...]
Really? Is anyone going to type eject_disc_tray instead of eject?
I think that will do.
This doesn't really do anything except define a large number of trivial
wrappers to commands already available in the shell. Emphasis on the
*trivial* -- with the exception of the grep wrapper, which is all of four
lines (ignoring the useless internal version number), every single one of
these wrapper functions is a one-liner.[1] In other words, you're not
adding any value to the shell commands by wrapping them in Python. There
are plenty of big, complex shell commands that take a plethora of options
and could do with
Re: Critic my module
On 07/27/2013 09:19 AM, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: SNIP About the aliases, I have tried setting pwd() as an alias for os.getcwd(), but I cannot type pwd() and get the desired output. Instead, I must type pwd. I tested this in Guake running Python3.3. os.getcwd() '/home/collier' pwd = os.getcwd() pwd() Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in module TypeError: 'str' object is not callable pwd '/home/collier' pwd() = os.getcwd() File stdin, line 1 SyntaxError: can't assign to function call How could I make pwd() work? Don't call getcwd() when making the alias. You want it to be called when USING the alias. pwd = os.getcwd#creates the alias pwd() #runs the alias -- DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Devyn Collier Johnson
devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote:
About the aliases, I have tried setting pwd() as an alias for os.getcwd(),
but I cannot type pwd() and get the desired output. Instead, I must type
pwd. I tested this in Guake running Python3.3.
os.getcwd()
'/home/collier'
pwd = os.getcwd()
pwd()
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in module
TypeError: 'str' object is not callable
pwd
'/home/collier'
pwd() = os.getcwd()
File stdin, line 1
SyntaxError: can't assign to function call
How could I make pwd() work?
Mahalo,
DCJ
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
import os
pwd = os.getcwd
pwd()
'/home/kwpolska'
os.chdir('/')
pwd()
'/'
--
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick http://kwpolska.tk
PGP: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Understanding other people's code
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Albert van der Horst alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote: If the code is really tidy, it is possible to understand a function using only the *documentation* (not the code itself) of any function or data it uses. I'd broaden that slightly to the function's signature, which consists of the declaration line and any associated comments (which in Python should be in the docstring). The docstring kinda violates this concept, but what I generally try to explain is that you should be able to understand a function without reading any of the indented content. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On 07/27/2013 09:35 AM, Dave Angel wrote: On 07/27/2013 09:19 AM, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: SNIP About the aliases, I have tried setting pwd() as an alias for os.getcwd(), but I cannot type pwd() and get the desired output. Instead, I must type pwd. I tested this in Guake running Python3.3. os.getcwd() '/home/collier' pwd = os.getcwd() pwd() Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in module TypeError: 'str' object is not callable pwd '/home/collier' pwd() = os.getcwd() File stdin, line 1 SyntaxError: can't assign to function call How could I make pwd() work? Don't call getcwd() when making the alias. You want it to be called when USING the alias. pwd = os.getcwd#creates the alias pwd() #runs the alias Thanks! It works! pwd = os.getcwd pwd() '/home/collier' Mahalo, Dave! DCJ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote: About the aliases, I have tried setting pwd() as an alias for os.getcwd(), but I cannot type pwd() and get the desired output. Instead, I must type pwd. I tested this in Guake running Python3.3. os.getcwd() '/home/collier' pwd = os.getcwd() pwd() Try: pwd = os.getcwd Otherwise you're calling it immediately. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On 07/27/2013 08:56 AM, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote:
SNIP
Somehow during this thread, you have changed your purpose for this
library. It used to be a library that Python programmers could import
and use. And now, it's a shell replacement? The user runs the Python
interpreter, and types the line import boash to get started.
Yeah, I have a VERY BAD habit of treating bash and the Linux shell (or
any/all shells) as the same thing. I know they are all very different,
but for some reason I still keep calling all shells in general BASH.
I seem to recall that BASH is an acronym, for Bourne Again SHell.
I will be sure to create aliases. I make alias commands so that it is
easier to guess or remember a command. For instance, a Python user my
want to clear the shell's history, but can only remember one form of the
command or must guess. On my Ubuntu system, I have set up numerous shell
aliases. I am addicted to aliases.
Nothing wrong with aliases. But how does your user create his own
aliases? That's much more important than having yours available.
Remember that any new globals he defines are lost when he exits the
interpreter (or crashes).
I still need to add the other browsers. Do very many people use Iceweasel?
I did not notice that I have print(subprocess.Popen('(xterm )'))
instead of subprocess.Popen('(xterm )'). The worst computer errors
are ID-10-T errors.
True, the user my have Xterm open, but what if they use Guake (like me)
or Pterm, EvilVTE, Valaterm, Gnome-Terminal, Konsole, etc.?
Exactly. If they're using a terminal with tabs, they might want to
create a new tab, not a new instance of the terminal. Or if they're
running screen or the equivalent, they want the new terminal to show up
on their (remote) console.
How could I add security and convenience? Okay, I will try to add wget.
Are there any other shell commands that anyone feels I should add?
How about tab? The command-completion and filename-completion and
parameter-completion logic of a good shell is extremely complex, and
very useful.
The point of this module is to allow Linux shell users to use Python3 as
a regular shell. Instead of using CSH, Bash, Tcsh, FISH, etc., users
could use Python3 and import this module. Python is more powerful than
any shell, so I want to make it easier for anyone to use Python as the
default shell. For instance, instead of typing print(os.getcwd()) to
get the current working directory, users could type boash.ls(). I hope
that is easier to remember than print(os.getcwd()).
It's easier, but doesn't begin to do the same thing.
As for using this INSTEAD of csh, bash, etc., that might be likely once
it gets beyond 10% of the usefulness. Right now, it's at about 0.01%
And any habits a user gets within this environment have to be unlearned
when he returns to a standard shell.
Back in the early days of MSDOS, the FORMAT command didn't require you
to specify a drive letter. So people could intend to format their
floppy, and actually trash their hard disk. So I had colleagues who put
a FORMAT.BAt command on their path which hard-wired the A: parameter.
Now what happens to one of those folks when he goes to another machine
which doesn't have that batch file? Ouch! Instead I wrote a batch file
that checked to make sure you had the A: parameter. Rapidly, my fingers
learned that FORMAT A: was the valid syntax, and pretty soon the batch
file was unnecessary (for me).
If I were going to define a dozen aliases for other people to use, I'd
make them something like:
def clear_hist():
print The function you want is probably clear_history()
As for the print()
command, I do not like how os.getcwd() has single quotes around the
output.
Those quotes come from the Python interpreter, not from getcwd().
Plus, Linux shell do not print output with quotes.
I want to make this a very useful and popular module, so I will use the
suggestions and add more useful wrappers. Would it help if I made a
Youtube video showing how this module can be used?
I will post the next version on this mailing list for another review.
Thanks everyone, and thanks a lot Steven D'Aprano!
Have you figured out how you're going to do things like cd (os.chdir),
which have to remember state? And how to pass the new current directory
to the shell that launched Python?
Have you looked at ipython (ipython.org) ? At least from there, you can
get command completion with tab, one-third of the bash functionality.
So if you type boash.cle then tab it'll fill in the rest.
--
DaveA
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On 07/27/2013 10:33 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
On 07/27/2013 08:56 AM, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote:
SNIP
Somehow during this thread, you have changed your purpose for this
library. It used to be a library that Python programmers could import
and use. And now, it's a shell replacement? The user runs the Python
interpreter, and types the line import boash to get started.
Yeah, I have a VERY BAD habit of treating bash and the Linux shell (or
any/all shells) as the same thing. I know they are all very different,
but for some reason I still keep calling all shells in general BASH.
I seem to recall that BASH is an acronym, for Bourne Again SHell.
I will be sure to create aliases. I make alias commands so that it is
easier to guess or remember a command. For instance, a Python user my
want to clear the shell's history, but can only remember one form of the
command or must guess. On my Ubuntu system, I have set up numerous shell
aliases. I am addicted to aliases.
Nothing wrong with aliases. But how does your user create his own
aliases? That's much more important than having yours available.
Remember that any new globals he defines are lost when he exits the
interpreter (or crashes).
I still need to add the other browsers. Do very many people use
Iceweasel?
I did not notice that I have print(subprocess.Popen('(xterm )'))
instead of subprocess.Popen('(xterm )'). The worst computer errors
are ID-10-T errors.
True, the user my have Xterm open, but what if they use Guake (like me)
or Pterm, EvilVTE, Valaterm, Gnome-Terminal, Konsole, etc.?
Exactly. If they're using a terminal with tabs, they might want to
create a new tab, not a new instance of the terminal. Or if they're
running screen or the equivalent, they want the new terminal to show
up on their (remote) console.
How could I add security and convenience? Okay, I will try to add wget.
Are there any other shell commands that anyone feels I should add?
How about tab? The command-completion and filename-completion and
parameter-completion logic of a good shell is extremely complex, and
very useful.
The point of this module is to allow Linux shell users to use Python3 as
a regular shell. Instead of using CSH, Bash, Tcsh, FISH, etc., users
could use Python3 and import this module. Python is more powerful than
any shell, so I want to make it easier for anyone to use Python as the
default shell. For instance, instead of typing print(os.getcwd()) to
get the current working directory, users could type boash.ls(). I hope
that is easier to remember than print(os.getcwd()).
It's easier, but doesn't begin to do the same thing.
As for using this INSTEAD of csh, bash, etc., that might be likely
once it gets beyond 10% of the usefulness. Right now, it's at about
0.01% And any habits a user gets within this environment have to be
unlearned when he returns to a standard shell.
Back in the early days of MSDOS, the FORMAT command didn't require you
to specify a drive letter. So people could intend to format their
floppy, and actually trash their hard disk. So I had colleagues who
put a FORMAT.BAt command on their path which hard-wired the A:
parameter. Now what happens to one of those folks when he goes to
another machine which doesn't have that batch file? Ouch! Instead I
wrote a batch file that checked to make sure you had the A:
parameter. Rapidly, my fingers learned that FORMAT A: was the valid
syntax, and pretty soon the batch file was unnecessary (for me).
If I were going to define a dozen aliases for other people to use, I'd
make them something like:
def clear_hist():
print The function you want is probably clear_history()
As for the print()
command, I do not like how os.getcwd() has single quotes around the
output.
Those quotes come from the Python interpreter, not from getcwd().
Plus, Linux shell do not print output with quotes.
I want to make this a very useful and popular module, so I will use the
suggestions and add more useful wrappers. Would it help if I made a
Youtube video showing how this module can be used?
I will post the next version on this mailing list for another review.
Thanks everyone, and thanks a lot Steven D'Aprano!
Have you figured out how you're going to do things like cd (os.chdir),
which have to remember state? And how to pass the new current
directory to the shell that launched Python?
Have you looked at ipython (ipython.org) ? At least from there, you
can get command completion with tab, one-third of the bash
functionality. So if you type boash.cle then tab it'll fill in
the rest.
Thanks! I will look into IPython. I am familiar with it already. Yes, I
have two purposes for the module, but after reading these suggestions I
have modified my goal and purpose to achieve the goal of making a useful
and popular Python3 module. The whole point of my boash project is to
make a useful module. How can I make this module useful? I
Re: Critic my module
You've gotten plenty of good advice from people discussing the coding and
coding style itself, I'll provide some feedback from the vantage point of a
perspective user.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Devyn Collier Johnson
devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote:
Aloha Python Users!
I made a Python3 module that allows users to use certain Linux shell
commands from Python3 more easily than using os.system(),
subprocess.Popen(), or subprocess.getoutput(). This module (once placed
with the other modules) can be used like this
import boash; boash.ls()
I actually wrote a program recently in which I wanted access to unix ls
command, and I wanted it to behave as close to the real, UNIX ls as
possible.
This would seem like a perfect use-case for your module, but the problem is
that the 'ls' command in your module does not behave much like the real
'ls' command. You never let any of the 'system' commands in your module
access any arguments. More often than not, I use ls with several
command-line arguments, like:
ls --color=auto -lthr dir_basename*/
Even if you're just spawning 'ls' directly, this is actually non-trivial to
implement. You need globbing on all non-option arguments, you may want to
pass up the return code somehow, depending on what the user wants to do:
[bash ]$ ls nodir
ls: nodir: No such file or directory
[bash ]$ echo $?
1
Also, 'ls' in the terminal behaves like ls -C when called from your
module. In the framework of my program, my 'ls' command looks like this:
class ls(Action):
Lists directory contents. Like UNIX 'ls'
needs_parm = False
def init(self, arg_list):
from glob import glob
self.args = []
# Process the argument list to mimic the real ls as much as possible
while True:
try:
arg = arg_list.get_next_string()
if not arg.startswith('-'):
# Glob this argument
globarg = glob(arg)
if len(globarg) 0:
self.args.extend(globarg)
else:
self.args.append(arg)
else:
self.args.append(arg)
except NoArgument:
break
def __str__(self):
from subprocess import Popen, PIPE
process = Popen(['/bin/ls', '-C'] + self.args, stdout=PIPE,
stderr=PIPE)
out, err = process.communicate('')
process.wait()
return out + err
[I have omitted the Action base class, which processes the user
command-line arguments and passes it to the init() method in arg_list --
this listing was just to give you a basic idea of the complexity of getting
a true-er 'ls' command].
Your 'uname' command is likewise limited (and the printout looks strange:
print(platform.uname())
('Linux', 'Batman', '3.3.8-gentoo', '#1 SMP Fri Oct 5 14:14:57 EDT 2012',
'x86_64', 'AMD FX(tm)-6100 Six-Core Processor')
Whereas:
[bash $] uname -a
Linux Batman 3.3.8-gentoo #1 SMP Fri Oct 5 14:14:57 EDT 2012 x86_64 AMD
FX(tm)-6100 Six-Core Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
You may want to change that to:
def uname():
print(' '.join(platform.uname()))
Although again, oftentimes people want only something specific from uname
(like -m or -n).
HTH,
Jason
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Would a Python3 game module be more useful? I plan to make a function that rolls a die and prints the output (You got a 5) and other similar random games. Taking someone else's module and learning to use it has a cost. Plus there's licensing and other issues (if you release your library GPL3, you force anyone who uses it to do the same - though I'm not 100% sure how that goes with Python modules, since they're not 'linked' the way others are), not to mention the time spent finding out that your module even exists. For a module to be useful, all those costs combined have to be lower than the cost of just writing the code yourself when you need it. On the other hand, it's VERY common for a programmer to have his own *personal* utilities module. Stuff stuff in there whenever you think it'll be useful, import it into your applications, et voila. The bar is way lower for that. Your dice-roller is perhaps useful to yourself, without being worth the effort for someone else to learn. Plus, you get to decide exactly how much flexibility you need. Do you only ever need to roll a single six-sider at a time? Then don't bother implementing stuff like I did for Minstrel Hall, where we play Dungeons and Dragons: [ROLL] Rosuav (Gaston crit dmg) rolls 4d8: 7, 3, 6, 1, totalling 17. [ROLL] Rosuav (Gaston crit dmg) rolls d6: 1 (elec) [ROLL] Rosuav (Gaston crit dmg) rolls d10: 6 (burst) [ROLL] Rosuav (Gaston crit dmg) rolls d8: 8 (thunder) [ROLL] For 4d8+12 STR+10 ench+4 specialization+d6 elec+d10 burst+d8 thunder+20 PA, Rosuav (Gaston crit dmg) totals: 78 Okay, that's a somewhat extreme example, but it's common to roll damage as, say, 2d6+13, which means two six-sided dice plus a constant 13. (This will result in damage between 15 and 25, with 20 being significantly more likely than either of the extremes.) And even that is probably a lot more complicated than you'll need for your purposes... yet for a DD system, a dice roller that can only do a single d6 at a time is utterly useless. There's actually a dice roller module on PyPI already [1]; and it's probably of no use to you, because it's as complicated as I described above. I personally wouldn't use it, though, because I can't see a license - which comes back to the issues I listed above. Again, not an issue for your own code; if it's your copyright, you can do with it as you wish. [1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/diceroll ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:22:00 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: On 07/27/2013 07:30 AM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote: On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Linux systems with the proper software can use the notify-send command. Is there a cross-platform Python3 equivalent? [snip answer no] That really sucks. I was hoping Python had some way of doing that. All that it needs to do is display a little box at one of the corners of the screen. I thought someone would have implemented something by now. Thank you anyway. If it's that simple, how about you do it? Won't take you more than, oh, ten minutes, right? *wink* Don't underestimate the difficulty of trivial code when it has to work on two dozens different platforms with different capabilities: Windows XP, 2000, Vista, 7, 8 ... Mac OS-X FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Linux, running KDE (3 or 4?), Gnome (2 or 3?), Trinity, RatPoison, XFCE, something else... or no window manager at all -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:22:00 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: That really sucks. I was hoping Python had some way of doing that. All that it needs to do is display a little box at one of the corners of the screen. I thought someone would have implemented something by now. Thank you anyway. If it's that simple, how about you do it? Won't take you more than, oh, ten minutes, right? *wink* Don't underestimate the difficulty of trivial code when it has to work on two dozens different platforms with different capabilities That doesn't mean the question shouldn't be asked, of course. Steven isn't (at least, I don't think he is!) scorning you for asking. Sometimes the response is quite the opposite - that it's so utterly trivial that there's no NEED for a library function! Never hurts to throw the question out there... ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:56:10 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: Good point about the Made by/Copyright suggestion. Although, I have not copyrighted the file, can I still say Copyrighted by -- There is no special process to Copyright anything. the simple act of writing it automatically gives you the copyright on your own work. Proving that it was you that created the work when may be a little trickier if you do not find a reliable means of recording the event though. (posting to this news group actually gives a reasonable time stamp provided the article has not expired by the time it is needed) Stenderup's Law: The sooner you fall behind, the more time you will have to catch up. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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Laura Burt 0400 954 448 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On 07/27/2013 12:32 PM, Alister wrote: On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:56:10 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: Good point about the Made by/Copyright suggestion. Although, I have not copyrighted the file, can I still say Copyrighted by -- There is no special process to Copyright anything. the simple act of writing it automatically gives you the copyright on your own work. Proving that it was you that created the work when may be a little trickier if you do not find a reliable means of recording the event though. (posting to this news group actually gives a reasonable time stamp provided the article has not expired by the time it is needed) The copyright law varies by country, and it's wise to look up your own country's rules, as well as investigate international law. The following is based only on my limited recollection of US law. I include references below, but have not re-studied them. Nor am I a lawyer. Generally, a copyright does belong to the author, as soon as he provably commits the text to medium. However, if you ever expect to defend a copyright, it can be useful to register it. Registration is limited by law to certain time limits. I don't recall exactly, but I believe that once something is published, it has to be registered within 3 months or so. Registration is easy, but not free. You can copyright a number of works simultaneously, but I think they have to be of the same type. And if it is registered, you can sue for larger amounts, and you'll have a much easier time getting a lawyer to take the case for you. See: http://www.copyright.gov/ and especially: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ01.pdf -- DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
On 07/27/2013 12:06 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:22:00 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: That really sucks. I was hoping Python had some way of doing that. All that it needs to do is display a little box at one of the corners of the screen. I thought someone would have implemented something by now. Thank you anyway. If it's that simple, how about you do it? Won't take you more than, oh, ten minutes, right? *wink* Don't underestimate the difficulty of trivial code when it has to work on two dozens different platforms with different capabilities That doesn't mean the question shouldn't be asked, of course. Steven isn't (at least, I don't think he is!) scorning you for asking. Sometimes the response is quite the opposite - that it's so utterly trivial that there's no NEED for a library function! Never hurts to throw the question out there... ChrisA I wanted to make a module (boash) that would be useful, but clearly it is not. Here, is a feature that is useful that no one has. This may be the module I decide to make. So, there is no cross-platform for such a command any where? Would this be a useful module? I know Steven is not scorning me. He is making me think and I have an idea. Mahalo, DCJ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Division and multiplication have a different behavior in the overflow case
In Python 3, when we hava a division and both the result and at least one operand are too large to convert to float, we get an exception: 2**1028 / 2**-2 Traceback (most recent call last): File input, line 1, in module OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float When the result is inside the limits, we get the right value: 2 ** 1025 / 2**10 3.59404027961e+305 Why the behavior is different in the case of the multiplication? 2 ** 1025 * 2**-10 Traceback (most recent call last): File input, line 1, in module OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float I think the multiplication should have the same behavior than the division: * `inf` or `-inf` when the operands are inside the limits, but the result is not * `OverflowError` when the result, and at least one operand, are out of range. -- Marco Buttu -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
On 07/27/2013 11:14 AM, Jason Swails wrote:
You've gotten plenty of good advice from people discussing the coding
and coding style itself, I'll provide some feedback from the vantage
point of a perspective user.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Devyn Collier Johnson
devyncjohn...@gmail.com mailto:devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote:
Aloha Python Users!
I made a Python3 module that allows users to use certain Linux
shell commands from Python3 more easily than using os.system(),
subprocess.Popen(), or subprocess.getoutput(). This module (once
placed with the other modules) can be used like this
import boash; boash.ls http://boash.ls()
I actually wrote a program recently in which I wanted access to unix
ls command, and I wanted it to behave as close to the real, UNIX
ls as possible.
This would seem like a perfect use-case for your module, but the
problem is that the 'ls' command in your module does not behave much
like the real 'ls' command. You never let any of the 'system'
commands in your module access any arguments. More often than not, I
use ls with several command-line arguments, like:
ls --color=auto -lthr dir_basename*/
Even if you're just spawning 'ls' directly, this is actually
non-trivial to implement. You need globbing on all non-option
arguments, you may want to pass up the return code somehow, depending
on what the user wants to do:
[bash ]$ ls nodir
ls: nodir: No such file or directory
[bash ]$ echo $?
1
Also, 'ls' in the terminal behaves like ls -C when called from your
module. In the framework of my program, my 'ls' command looks like this:
class ls(Action):
Lists directory contents. Like UNIX 'ls'
needs_parm = False
def init(self, arg_list):
from glob import glob
self.args = []
# Process the argument list to mimic the real ls as much as possible
while True:
try:
arg = arg_list.get_next_string()
if not arg.startswith('-'):
# Glob this argument
globarg = glob(arg)
if len(globarg) 0:
self.args.extend(globarg)
else:
self.args.append(arg)
else:
self.args.append(arg)
except NoArgument:
break
def __str__(self):
from subprocess import Popen, PIPE
process = Popen(['/bin/ls', '-C'] + self.args, stdout=PIPE,
stderr=PIPE)
out, err = process.communicate('')
process.wait()
return out + err
[I have omitted the Action base class, which processes the user
command-line arguments and passes it to the init() method in arg_list
-- this listing was just to give you a basic idea of the complexity of
getting a true-er 'ls' command].
Your 'uname' command is likewise limited (and the printout looks strange:
print(platform.uname())
('Linux', 'Batman', '3.3.8-gentoo', '#1 SMP Fri Oct 5 14:14:57 EDT
2012', 'x86_64', 'AMD FX(tm)-6100 Six-Core Processor')
Whereas:
[bash $] uname -a
Linux Batman 3.3.8-gentoo #1 SMP Fri Oct 5 14:14:57 EDT 2012 x86_64
AMD FX(tm)-6100 Six-Core Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
You may want to change that to:
def uname():
print(' '.join(platform.uname()))
Although again, oftentimes people want only something specific from
uname (like -m or -n).
HTH,
Jason
For now, I will decide if it would be worth my time to make such a
module seeing that many feel that it may not be useful. Thank you all
for your feedback.
Mahalo,
DCJ
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
On 07/27/2013 11:59 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:22:00 -0400, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: On 07/27/2013 07:30 AM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote: On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Linux systems with the proper software can use the notify-send command. Is there a cross-platform Python3 equivalent? [snip answer no] That really sucks. I was hoping Python had some way of doing that. All that it needs to do is display a little box at one of the corners of the screen. I thought someone would have implemented something by now. Thank you anyway. If it's that simple, how about you do it? Won't take you more than, oh, ten minutes, right? *wink* Don't underestimate the difficulty of trivial code when it has to work on two dozens different platforms with different capabilities: Windows XP, 2000, Vista, 7, 8 ... Mac OS-X FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Linux, running KDE (3 or 4?), Gnome (2 or 3?), Trinity, RatPoison, XFCE, something else... or no window manager at all Yeah, good point Steven. It seems like it would be easy, but I know it is not. DCJ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RE Module Performance
Le samedi 27 juillet 2013 04:05:03 UTC+2, Michael Torrie a écrit :
On 07/26/2013 07:21 AM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
sys.getsizeof('––') - sys.getsizeof('–')
I have already explained / commented this.
Maybe it got lost in translation, but I don't understand your point with
that.
Hint: To understand Unicode (and every coding scheme), you should
understand utf. The how and the *why*.
Hmm, so if python used utf-8 internally to represent unicode strings
would not that punish *all* users (not just non-ascii users) since
searching a string for a certain character position requires an O(n)
operation? UTF-32 I could see (and indeed that's essentially what FSR
uses when necessary does it not?), but not utf-8 or utf-16.
--
Did you read my previous link? Unicode Character Encoding Model.
Did you understand it?
Unicode only - No FSR (I skip some points and I still attempt to
be still correct.)
Unicode is a four-steps process.
[ {unique set of characters} -- {unique set of code points, the
labels} -- {unique set of encoded code points} ] -- implementation
(bytes)
First point to notice. pure unicode, [...], is different from
the implementation. *This is a deliberate choice*.
The critical step is the path {unique set of characters} ---
{unique set of encoded code points} in such a way so that
the implementation can work comfortably with this *unique* set
of encoded code points. Conceptualy, the implementation works
with an unique set of already prepared encoded code points.
This is a very critical step. To explain it in a dirty way:
in the above chain, this problem is already eliminated and
solved. Like a byte/char coding schemes where this step is
a no-op.
Now, and if you wish this is a seperated/different problem.
To create this unique set of encoded code points, Unicode
uses these utf(s). I repeat again, a confusing name, for the
process and the result of the process. (I neglect ucs).
What are these? Chunks of bits, group of 8/16/32 bits, words.
It is up to the implementation to convert these sequences
of bits into bytes, ***if you wish to convert these in bytes!***.
Suprise! Why not putting two of the 32-bits words in a 64-bits
machine? (see golang / rune / int32).
Back to utf. utfs are not only elements of a unique set of encoded
code points. They have an interesting feature. Each utf chunk
holds intrisically the character (in fact the code point) it is
supposed to represent. In utf-32, the obvious case, it is just
the code point. In utf-8, that's the first chunk which helps and
utf-16 is a mixed case (utf-8 / utf-32). In other words, in an
implementation using bytes, for any pointer position it is always
possible to find the corresponding encoded code point and from this
the corresponding character without any programmed information. See
my editor example, how to find the char under the caret? In fact,
a silly example, how can the caret can be positioned or moved, if
the underlying corresponding encoded code point can not be
dicerned!
Next step and one another separated problem.
Why all these utf versions? It is always the
same story. Some prefer the universality (utf-32) and
some prefer, well, some kind of conservatism. utf-8 is
more complicated, it demands more work and logically,
in an expected way, some performance regression.
utf-8 is more suited to produce bytes, utf16/32 for
internal processing. utf-8 had no choice to lose the
indexing. And so on.
Fact: all these coding schemes are working with a unique
set of encoded code points (suprise again, it's like byte
string!). The loss of performance of utf-8 is very minimal
compared to the loss of performance one can get compare to
a multiple coding scheme. This kind of work has been done,
and if my informations are correct, even by the creators
of utf-8. (There are sometimes good scientists).
There are plenty of advantages in using utf instead of
something else and advantages in other fields than just
the pure coding.
utf-16/32 schemes have the advantages to ditch ascii
for ever. The ascii concept is no more existing.
One should also understand that all this stuff has
not been created from scratch. It was a balance between
existing technologies. MS sticked with the idea, no more
ascii, let's use ucs-2 and the *x world breaks the unicode
adoption as possible. utf-8 is one of the compromise for
the adoption of Unicode. Retrospectivly, a not so good
compromise.
Computer scientists are funny scientists. They do love
to solve the problems they created themselves.
-
Quickly. sys.getsizeof() at the light of what I explained.
1) As this FSR works with multiple encoding, it has to keep
track of the encoding. it puts is in the overhead of str
class (overhead = real overhead + encoding). In such
a absurd way, that a
sys.getsizeof('€')
40
needs 14 bytes more than a
sys.getsizeof('z')
26
You may vary the length of the str. The problem is
still here. Not bad for a coding scheme.
2) Take
Re: Cross-Platform Python3 Equivalent to notify-send
On 7/27/13 6:58 AM, Devyn Collier Johnson wrote: Linux systems with the proper software can use the notify-send command. Is there a cross-platform Python3 equivalent? Mahalo, Devyn Collier Johnson devyncjohn...@gmail.com http://pythonhosted.org/gntp/ ? -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Division and multiplication have a different behavior in the overflow case
On 7/27/2013 1:48 PM, Marco wrote: In Python 3, when we hava a division and both the result and at least one operand are too large to convert to float, we get an exception: 2**1028 / 2**-2 int/float gets converted to float/float and the int to float conversion is not possible. The result is irrelevant since it never gets calculated. Traceback (most recent call last): File input, line 1, in module OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float When the result is inside the limits, we get the right value: 2 ** 1025 / 2**10 3.59404027961e+305 This must be doing integer division and then converting the result to float, which it can. Why the behavior is different in the case of the multiplication? 2 ** 1025 * 2**-10 Mathematically this is the same thing, but computationally, it is not and you cannot expect to get the same answer. Like the first example, 2**-10 is a float, so 2**1025 must be converted to float to do float multiplication. But that is not possible. Traceback (most recent call last): File input, line 1, in module OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float I think the multiplication should have the same behavior than the division: * `inf` or `-inf` when the operands are inside the limits, but the result is not * `OverflowError` when the result, and at least one operand, are out of range. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it that easy to install Python ?
On 25-7-2013 17:11, santiago.d...@caoba.fr wrote: Hi there, I never write any Python program but as a system administrator, I'm often asked to install python on Debian servers. I just finished downloading, configuring, making and installing. As a side note to all who have replied already; as a 'regular' linux user you can also just download, untar, configure and make. You can't do 'make install', but that's not required to run the executables (in this case 'python') built in the previous steps. just nitpicking .. :-) cheers, Ozz -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
python import module question
I am trying to do a import shogun in my python script. I can invoke shogun with a command line with no problem. But I cannot with a python import statement. invoking python from a command line... Syedk@syedk-ThinkPad-T410:~/shogun-2.0.0/src/interfaces/cmdline_static$ shogun | more libshogun (i686/v2.0.0_9c8012f_2012-09-04_09:08_164102447) Copyright (C) 1999-2009 Fraunhofer Institute FIRST Copyright (C) 1999-2011 Max Planck Society Copyright (C) 2009-2011 Berlin Institute of Technology Copyright (C) 2012 Soeren Sonnenburg, Sergey Lisitsyn, Heiko Strathmann Written (W) 1999-2012 Soeren Sonnenburg, Gunnar Raetsch et al. ( configure options: configure options --interfaces=python_static compile flag s: -fPIC -g -Wall -Wno-unused-parameter -Wformat -Wformat-security -Wparenthese s -Wshadow -Wno-deprecated -O9 -fexpensive-optimizations -frerun-cse-after-loop -fcse-follow-jumps -finline-functions -fschedule-insns2 -fthread-jumps -fforce-a ddr -fstrength-reduce -funroll-loops -march=native -mtune=native -pthread link flags: -Xlinker --no-undefined ) ( seeding random number generator with 3656470784 (seed size 256)) determined range for x in log(1+exp(-x)) is:37 ) Trying to call python from a script in the same directory where I invoked the shogun from a command linesyedk@syedk-ThinkPad-T410:~/shogun-2.0.0/src/interfaces/cmdline_static$ python Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 10 2013, 05:46:21) [GCC 4.6.3] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. import shogun Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in module ImportError: No module named shogun Regards -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python import module question
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:15 AM, syed khalid sy...@pacificloud.com wrote: Syedk@syedk-ThinkPad-T410:~/shogun-2.0.0/src/interfaces/cmdline_static$ shogun | more This implies that you have something called 'shogun', without an extension, in your $PATH. Where is the actual script? You may need to install it by a quite different method, to make it available in Python. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
PyQt5 and virtualenv problem
I tried to install SIP and PyQt5 using the pip install command but it didnt work on both cases (i was getting errors), so i finally installed them using the windows installers provided in riverbankcomputing website. My problem though here is that whenever i try to create a new virtualenv enviroment, those packages are not included and i cant import them. How can i add PyQt5 to my new virt enviroment? What is the logic behind this problem so i understand whats going on here? Thx in advance -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Thread is somehow interfering with a while loop called after the thread is started
I have a simple scapy + nfqueue dns spoofing script that I want to turn into a thread within a larger program: http://www.bpaste.net/show/HrlfvmUBDA3rjPQdLmdp/ Below is my attempt to thread the program above. Somehow, the only way the while loop actually prints running is if the callback function is called consistently. If the callback function isn't started, the script will never print running. How can that be if the while loop is AFTER the thread was started? Shouldn't the while loop and the thread operate independantly? http://bpaste.net/show/0aCxSsSW7yHcQ7EBLctI/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Critic my module
I made a Python3 module that allows users to use certain Linux shell commands from Python3 more easily than using os.system(), subprocess.Popen(), or subprocess.getoutput(). This module (once placed with the other modules) can be used like this Looks similar to https://pypi.python.org/pypi/sh. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RE Module Performance
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:21 PM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
Back to utf. utfs are not only elements of a unique set of encoded
code points. They have an interesting feature. Each utf chunk
holds intrisically the character (in fact the code point) it is
supposed to represent. In utf-32, the obvious case, it is just
the code point. In utf-8, that's the first chunk which helps and
utf-16 is a mixed case (utf-8 / utf-32). In other words, in an
implementation using bytes, for any pointer position it is always
possible to find the corresponding encoded code point and from this
the corresponding character without any programmed information. See
my editor example, how to find the char under the caret? In fact,
a silly example, how can the caret can be positioned or moved, if
the underlying corresponding encoded code point can not be
dicerned!
Yes, given a pointer location into a utf-8 or utf-16 string, it is
easy to determine the identity of the code point at that location.
But this is not often a useful operation, save for resynchronization
in the case that the string data is corrupted. The caret of an editor
does not conceptually correspond to a pointer location, but to a
character index. Given a particular character index (e.g. 127504), an
editor must be able to determine the identity and/or the memory
location of the character at that index, and for UTF-8 and UTF-16
without an auxiliary data structure that is a O(n) operation.
2) Take a look at this. Get rid of the overhead.
sys.getsizeof('b'*100 + 'c')
126
sys.getsizeof('b'*100 + '€')
240
What does it mean? It means that Python has to
reencode a str every time it is necessary because
it works with multiple codings.
Large strings in practical usage do not need to be resized like this
often. Python 3.3 has been in production use for months now, and you
still have yet to produce any real-world application code that
demonstrates a performance regression. If there is no real-world
regression, then there is no problem.
3) Unicode compliance. We know retrospectively, latin-1,
is was a bad choice. Unusable for 17 European languages.
Believe of not. 20 years of Unicode of incubation is not
long enough to learn it. When discussing once with a French
Python core dev, one with commit access, he did not know one
can not use latin-1 for the French language!
Probably because for many French strings, one can. As far as I am
aware, the only characters that are missing from Latin-1 are the Euro
sign (an unfortunate victim of history), the ligature œ (I have no
doubt that many users just type oe anyway), and the rare capital Ÿ
(the miniscule version is present in Latin-1). All French strings
that are fortunate enough to be absent these characters can be
represented in Latin-1 and so will have a 1-byte width in the FSR.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
[issue18565] Test for closing delegating generator with cleared frame (Issue17669)
Benjamin Peterson added the comment: Thanks! It looks good except I think you could use the support.disable_gc() context manager. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18565 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18568] Support \e escape code in strings
New submission from Steven D'Aprano: I'm adding this so there is a record in the bug tracker for posterity. No action is needed except to close it as a Won't Fix. As per this discussion here: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2013-June/021318.html using \e as an escape code for ASCII ESC character might be nice to have, but it fails backwards compatibility and therefore must be ruled out. (But perhaps could be re-visited in Python 4000?) -- components: Interpreter Core messages: 193776 nosy: stevenjd priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: Support \e escape code in strings ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18568 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18568] Support \e escape code in strings
Changes by Steven D'Aprano steve+pyt...@pearwood.info: -- resolution: - rejected status: open - closed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18568 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18537] bool.toggle()
Raymond Hettinger added the comment: FYI, the itertools module has ifilterfalse() for inverse filtering. -- nosy: +rhettinger resolution: invalid - rejected ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18537 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Nick Coghlan added the comment: Latest version is a more general cleanup patch for PEP 8 (hence the change in the issue title). Enumerating all the changes/additions: 1. Added an intro paragraph that makes it clear this is a living document, not set and forget. 2. Added a couple more explicit reasons to the foolish consistency section, and tweaked the header for that list to help make it clearer that there may be other good reasons, these are just especially good ones. 3. Updated the tabs and spaces section for Python 3 4. Changed the rationale for the line length limit. These days, it is about side-by-side editor windows, diff tools, and online text editing widgets, not ancient terminals with limited column widths. 5. Cleaned up the encoding cookie guidelines for Python 3 6. Changed the absolute vs explicit relative import discussion to state that while absolute imports are recommended, there are valid reasons to use explicit relative imports. Added an explicit admonition that the standard library should always absolute imports, and that *nobody* should use implicit relative imports. 7. Added a guideline to avoid wildcard imports 8. The new section on public vs internal interfaces 9. Clarified that it's not just Jython that omits the += hack, and that it is fairly easy to break it in CPython, too. 10. Added a guideline about using def rather than assigning a lambda to a name. 11. Rewrote the class based exception guideline to account for the requirement that all exceptions inherit from BaseException, as well as the exception hierarchy design lessons we have learned that led to the creation of PEP 3151 (which explicitly *rejects* the per-module generic exception approach previously recommended by PEP 8) 12. Clarified what a non-error exception might be used for. 13. Added a guideline about exception chaining 14. For the exception raising guideline, moved Python 3 compatibility up as the main motivating factor 15. Added a guideline about using the as clause to bind a caught exception to a name 16. Added a guideline explicitly favouring PEP 3151 based exception handling over errno introspection 17. Added a note about the Python 3 text model changes to the isinstance guideline 18. Added a recommendation that third party experiments with function annotations combine them with a decorator that indicates how they're to be interpreted -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31050/issue18472_pep_8_update4.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Changes by Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com: Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file30938/issue18472_pep_8_update3.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Changes by Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com: Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file30937/issue18472_pep_8_update2.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18533] Avoid error from repr() of recursive dictview
Raymond Hettinger added the comment: +1 for backporting the fix. -- nosy: +rhettinger ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18533 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Changes by Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com: Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file30936/issue18472_pep_8_update.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Nick Coghlan added the comment: Guido, if you have time to review these proposed PEP 8 changes, that would be great. Most should be unobjectionable, but I seem to recall you disliking the recommendation for third party function annotation experiments to use an explicit decorator, so I'm happy to drop that one if you don't like it. I'm also willing to send it back to python-dev at large for further feedback, but I'm not sure that's necessary (the two big changes are the ones about public APIs and the import recommendations, and those have had discussion threads already) -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Changes by Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com: -- nosy: +gvanrossum ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18569] Set PATHEXT in the Windows installer
New submission from Paul Moore: Make the Windows Python installer set PATHEXT when Register Python extensions is set. This allows users to run a scripy by typing the name of the .py file at the command line without the .py extension. The patch needs review - I have not been able to build the MSI installer and so this patch is untested :-( -- assignee: loewis components: Installation, Windows files: pathext.patch keywords: needs review, patch messages: 193781 nosy: loewis, pmoore priority: normal severity: normal stage: patch review status: open title: Set PATHEXT in the Windows installer type: enhancement versions: Python 3.4 Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31051/pathext.patch ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18569 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Marc-Andre Lemburg added the comment: 1. Added an intro paragraph that makes it clear this is a living document, not set and forget. If we want to make this a living document, I think the PEP will have to receive its own internal version number and a history section at the end explaining the changes (basically what you just summarized for the patch). Doing so is important, since companies and tools often reference PEP 8 in internal coding guidelines and any changes need to be easily identifiable for readers of those guidelines. -- nosy: +lemburg ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18570] OverflowError during division: wrong message
New submission from Marco Buttu: When the integer division result is too large to converto to float, and the operands are inside the limits, the result is `inf` or `-inf`:: 2**1023 / 2**-3 inf 2**1022 / 2**-4 inf 2**1023 / 2**-1074 inf When both the result and an operand are too large to converto to float, we raise an OverflowError:: 2**1028 / 2**-2 Traceback (most recent call last): File input, line 1, in module OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float The message says: long int too large to convert to float. I think in Python 3 it should be int too large to convert In any case, the most important thing is that in the same situation we get a different message [1]_:: 2**1032 / 2**2 Traceback (most recent call last): File input, line 1, in module OverflowError: integer division result too large for a float and I think is it muddleheaded, because it should be long int too large to convert to float, as we got in the case `2**1028 / 2**-2`. I think we should never show integer division result too large for a float, but just: * `inf` or `-inf` when the operands are inside the limits, but the result does not * `OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float` when the result, and at least one operand, are out of range. .. [1] In this situation, we get the message OverflowError: integer division result too large for a float only when the denominator exponent is positive. -- messages: 193783 nosy: marco.buttu priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: OverflowError during division: wrong message type: behavior versions: Python 3.1, Python 3.2, Python 3.3, Python 3.4 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18570 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18570] OverflowError during division: wrong message
Changes by Christian Heimes li...@cheimes.de: -- nosy: +christian.heimes, mark.dickinson versions: -Python 3.1, Python 3.2 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18570 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue8425] a -= b should be fast if a is a small set and b is a large set
Michele Orrù added the comment: ping. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue8425 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Guido van Rossum added the comment: This is mostly fine. FWIW I disagree with MAL's assertion that we need to start adding internal versioning; people who lawyer about which version of the PEP should apply are focused on the wrong thing entirely. IIUC the occasional Python-3-specific rule is already flagged as such. Also for real nitpickers there's the Hg revision. :-) My nits on the diff: - You're missing a comma after Barry's name (i.e. before your own). - Also a period at the end of point 3 starting near line 55. - I think we should recommend against tabs outright. They are getting more and more misunderstood. - Regarding line length, I think it is reasonable to mention that many organizations are settling on 100 as a compromise. On newer laptops you can still fit two terminal windows (with a reasonable font size) side by side. (Also many people checking code into the stdlib ignore the 80 char limit. :-( ) - The section about Latin-1 author names sounds a little confused (why recommend Latin-1 over UTF-8 at all?). I believe what is left unsaid is that you don't need a coding cookie when using Latin-1 in comments in Python 2? But in strings the cookie would still be required IIRC. But this will cause problems when the file is converted Python 3 because the UTF-8 default will complain about non-ASCII Latin-1 bytes. - In performance sensitive parts of the library -- are we suddenly clinging to the fiction that PEP 8 only applies to the stdlib? I'd change parts of the library to code. Also, it's performance-sensitive. - Eliminate this: +- Use class-based exceptions (recent versions of Python require that all + exceptions inherit from BaseException). Instead, I'd add an admonition to derive exceptions from Exception rather than BaseException unless you really know what you're doing. - Which reminds me. Do we have a recommendation yet to write except Exception: instead of except: If not, we should. - I wouldn't mind seeing at least a mild recommendation against using exceptions for non-local control flow. The lessons of StopIteration suggest that such designs are often fraught with subtle problems. - About third party experiments: can you strike highly? I don't want mypy to feel out of line (http://www.mypy-lang.org/). -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue17036] Implementation of the PEP 433: Easier suppression of file descriptor inheritance
Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com: Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31052/ecc10f0afb76.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue17036 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue17036] Implementation of the PEP 433: Easier suppression of file descriptor inheritance
Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com: Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file31052/ecc10f0afb76.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue17036 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18571] Implementation of the PEP 446: non-inheriable file descriptors
Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com: -- nosy: haypo priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: Implementation of the PEP 446: non-inheriable file descriptors type: enhancement versions: Python 3.4 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18571 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18571] Implementation of the PEP 446: non-inheriable file descriptors
Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com: -- hgrepos: +205 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18571 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18571] Implementation of the PEP 446: non-inheriable file descriptors
New submission from STINNER Victor: Implementation of the PEP 446. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18571 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18572] Remove redundant note about surrogates in string escape doc
New submission from Steven D'Aprano: The documentation for string escapes suggests that \u escapes can be used to generate characters in the Supplementary Multilingual Planes by using surrogate pairs: Individual code units which form parts of a surrogate pair can be encoded using this escape sequence. http://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-and-bytes-literals E.g. in Python 3.2: py '\uD80C\uDC80' == '\U00013080' True but that is no longer the case in Python 3.3. I suggest the documentation should just remove that note. -- assignee: docs@python components: Documentation messages: 193787 nosy: docs@python, stevenjd priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: Remove redundant note about surrogates in string escape doc versions: Python 3.3 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18572 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18571] Implementation of the PEP 446: non-inheriable file descriptors
Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com: -- keywords: +patch Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31053/327133193321.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18571 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18573] In unittest.TestCase.assertWarns doc there is some text about assertRaises()
New submission from py.user: http://docs.python.org/3/library/unittest.html#unittest.TestCase.assertWarns When used as a context manager, assertRaises() accepts ... is to perform additional checks on the exception raised -- assignee: docs@python components: Documentation files: issue.diff keywords: patch messages: 193788 nosy: docs@python, py.user priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: In unittest.TestCase.assertWarns doc there is some text about assertRaises() type: enhancement versions: Python 3.4 Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31054/issue.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18573 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18572] Remove redundant note about surrogates in string escape doc
Changes by Terry J. Reedy tjre...@udel.edu: -- stage: - needs patch type: - behavior versions: +Python 3.4 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18572 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18573] In unittest.TestCase.assertWarns doc there is some text about assertRaises()
Changes by Terry J. Reedy tjre...@udel.edu: -- stage: - needs patch versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.3 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18573 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18539] Idle 2.7: Calltip wrong if def contains float default value
ariel brunner added the comment: Superb, and thanks for doing the actual work on fixing it. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18539 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18570] OverflowError in division: wrong message
Changes by Marco Buttu marco.bu...@gmail.com: -- title: OverflowError during division: wrong message - OverflowError in division: wrong message ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18570 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18572] Remove redundant note about surrogates in string escape doc
Terry J. Reedy added the comment: 3.3.2: '\uD80C\uDC80' == '\U00013080' False The statement that surrogate code units can be encoded this way is still true. Indeed, it is now the only way to get such code units into a string. The suggestion that a pair will make an astral char is now false. The sentence could be changed to Individual surrogate code units can be encoded using this escape sequence. On the other hand, the same is true of *any* BMP char, including all the *other* non-graphic chars that can only be entered this way. So I think the sentence, if not deleted, should be replaced by what seems to me a more useful (complete) statement. Any Basic Multilingual Plane (BMP) codepoint can be encoded using this escape sequence. -- nosy: +terry.reedy ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18572 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18573] In unittest.TestCase.assertWarns doc there is some text about assertRaises()
Changes by Terry J. Reedy tjre...@udel.edu: -- assignee: docs@python - terry.reedy nosy: +terry.reedy ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18573 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18573] In unittest.TestCase.assertWarns doc there is some text about assertRaises()
Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 55dcf9e065be by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '3.3': Issue #18573: Complete copy-paste from assertRaises entry to assertWarns entry. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/55dcf9e065be -- nosy: +python-dev ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18573 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18573] In unittest.TestCase.assertWarns doc there is some text about assertRaises()
Terry J. Reedy added the comment: assertWarns is new in 3.2 and not in 2.7. The sentence was copied from the assertRaises section but not changed. Thanks for reporting. -- resolution: - fixed stage: needs patch - committed/rejected status: open - closed type: enhancement - behavior versions: -Python 2.7 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18573 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18570] OverflowError in division: wrong message
Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Yes, 'long int' should just be 'int' in 3.x. However, int/int (integer division) is *not* the same thing as int/float. In the latter case, the int is converted to float first and if that conversion fails, there is no result. Now that int/int is always converted to float, it seems sensible that out of float range results be +-inf. But there may be an issue with back compatibility. I know there has been discussion on overflow vs. inf in various contexts. -- nosy: +terry.reedy ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18570 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18565] Test for closing delegating generator with cleared frame (Issue17669)
Phil Connell added the comment: Good suggestion, updated patch attached. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31055/gen_close_with_cleared_frame.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18565 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18564] Integer overflow in socketmodule
Antoine Pitrou added the comment: Instead of writing try / except / self.fail, you could simply use the context manager form of assertRaises. -- nosy: +neologix, pitrou ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18564 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18112] PEP 442 implementation
Changes by Christian Heimes li...@cheimes.de: -- nosy: +christian.heimes ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18112 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18566] In unittest.TestCase docs for setUp() and tearDown() don't mention AssertionError
Terry J. Reedy added the comment: I re-ran with setUp 'raise' changed to 'pass' to see the effect of raise AssertionError or unittest.SkipTest in tearDown and indeed the test fails or skips even then. I suggest adding ', other than AssertionError or SkipTest,' just after 'method'. The same is true of test_xxx methods. A slight anomaly is that AssertionError in test_nothing and SkipTest in tearDown results in FAILED (failures=1, skipped=1), which is not really a skip. For setUpClass and setUpModule, AssertionErrors *are* errors, not failures, while SkipTest works everywhere. -- nosy: +terry.reedy versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.3 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18566 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue17669] Segfault caused by weird combination of imports and yield from
Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 516303f32bad by Benjamin Peterson in branch '3.3': add a test for issue #17669 (closes #18565) http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/516303f32bad -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue17669 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18565] Test for closing delegating generator with cleared frame (Issue17669)
Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 516303f32bad by Benjamin Peterson in branch '3.3': add a test for issue #17669 (closes #18565) http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/516303f32bad New changeset f90e7540dcba by Benjamin Peterson in branch 'default': merge 3.3 (#18565) http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/f90e7540dcba -- nosy: +python-dev resolution: - fixed stage: - committed/rejected status: open - closed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18565 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18564] Integer overflow in socketmodule
Changes by Michele Orrù maker...@gmail.com: Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31056/issue18564.1.patch ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18564 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18441] Idle: Make test.support.requires('gui') skip when it should.
Roundup Robot added the comment:
New changeset dd9941f5fcda by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7':
Issue #18441: Make test.support.requires('gui') skip when it should.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/dd9941f5fcda
New changeset d9a53ab464ea by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7':
Issue #18441: Correct previous patch, which hg committed before I wanted it to.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/d9a53ab464ea
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[issue18564] Integer overflow in socketmodule
Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com: -- nosy: +haypo ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18564 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18112] PEP 442 implementation
Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com: -- nosy: +haypo ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18112 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18574] BaseHTTPRequestHandler.handle_expect_100() sends invalid response
New submission from Nikolaus Rath: The handle_expect_100() implementation in BaseHTTPRequestHandler currently calls send_response_only(100) followed by flush_headers(). However, even a 1xx response is always followed by a (potentially empty) set of response headers (cf. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-9.9). Therefore, clients will block waiting for an additional '\r\n' before sending the buffer. The attached patch fixes the problem. -- components: Library (Lib) files: handle_expect.diff keywords: patch messages: 193800 nosy: Nikratio priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: BaseHTTPRequestHandler.handle_expect_100() sends invalid response versions: Python 3.3, Python 3.4, Python 3.5 Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31057/handle_expect.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18574 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18574] BaseHTTPRequestHandler.handle_expect_100() sends invalid response
Nikolaus Rath added the comment: The correct link is http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-10.1: 10.1 Informational 1xx This class of status code indicates a provisional response, consisting only of the Status-Line and optional headers, and is terminated by an empty line. [...] Currently handle_expect_100() does not send this empty line. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18574 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18571] Implementation of the PEP 446: non-inheriable file descriptors
Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com: Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31058/c066794c85cd.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18571 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18571] Implementation of the PEP 446: non-inheriable file descriptors
Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com: Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file31053/327133193321.diff ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18571 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18441] Idle: Make test.support.requires('gui') skip when it should.
Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 9a4c62c1a4c0 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7': Issue #18441: add Mac (darwin) gui check. This is not needed today, but has been http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/9a4c62c1a4c0 New changeset ba5c264d67ea by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7': Issue #18441: Comment out code that will not compile because the standard http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/ba5c264d67ea New changeset 6420dcd377f9 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7': Issue #18441: whitespace http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/6420dcd377f9 -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18441 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue1521051] Allow passing DocTestRunner and DocTestCase in doctest
Jason Myers added the comment: The attached file contains a simple test for this code to make sure the test runner is being applied. I've never submitted anything before, so it might be totally naive. -- nosy: +jasonamyers Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31059/test.patch ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue1521051 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue12129] Document Object Model API - validation
John Cassidy added the comment: I added the line print(str(doc)) after the call to getDomImplementation and verified that the errors that I'm seeing are coming from the xml.dom.minidom implemenation of xml.dom. Checking minidom.py I did not see any validation on the tagName that gets passed to createElement. http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#NT-NameStartChar lists the format of allowed names. Attached is a file containing the functions I was working on. My thinking is that if the tagName is not valid a ValueError should be thrown. -- nosy: +jocassid Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file31060/xmlNameVerification.py ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue12129 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18441] Idle: Make test.support.requires('gui') skip when it should.
Terry J. Reedy added the comment: I tried to run the currently unnecessary Mac 'darwin' check in 2.7 with if sys.platform == 'darwin': from lib-tk.test.runtktests import check_tk_availability # tkinter.test.suppport in 3.x try: check_tk_availability() except unittest.SkipTest: raise tk.TclError This fails because 'lib-tk' is not a legal module name. There are workarounds in test/test_tk.py and test_ttk_guionly, but I decided not to bother with them now because I would rather work on moving the function to test.support (and perhaps the package could be given a legal name). If, before that is done, someone adds a Mac buildbot that will not run gui tests but requests that they be run anyway, the above could be added with the different changes needed for 2.7 and 3.x. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18441 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18441] Idle: Make test.support.requires('gui') skip when it should.
Roundup Robot added the comment:
New changeset c3936a52f215 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '3.3':
Issue #18441: Make test.support.requires('gui') skip when it should.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/c3936a52f215
New changeset 858a72d91162 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7':
Issue #18441: Move commented out code to issue message.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/858a72d91162
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[issue8425] a -= b should be fast if a is a small set and b is a large set
Raymond Hettinger added the comment: There's no rush on this. I have other work I want to do on set objects before applying further optimizations, so I want to hold off on it for a bit. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue8425 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Raymond Hettinger added the comment: - I think we should recommend against tabs outright. They are getting more and more misunderstood. +1 Perhaps also mention that Python 3 now raises TabError for inconsistent tabs and spaces. - Regarding line length, I think it is reasonable to mention that many organizations are settling on 100 as a compromise. On newer laptops you can still fit two terminal windows (with a reasonable font size) side by side +1 I've seen too many atrocities committed by people trying to scrunch code into 80 columns (weird line splits, over-abbreviated variable names, etc). - The section about Latin-1 author names sounds a little confused (why recommend Latin-1 over UTF-8 at all?). I believe what is left unsaid is that you don't need a coding cookie when using Latin-1 in comments in Python 2? But in strings the cookie would still be required IIRC. But this will cause problems when the file is converted Python 3 because the UTF-8 default will complain about non-ASCII Latin-1 bytes. +1 for UTF-8 as the default preference for everything in the Python world. - Eliminate this: +- Use class-based exceptions (recent versions of Python require that all + exceptions inherit from BaseException). Instead, I'd add an admonition to derive exceptions from Exception rather than BaseException unless you really know what you're doing. +1 - I wouldn't mind seeing at least a mild recommendation against using exceptions for non-local control flow. The lessons of StopIteration suggest that such designs are often fraught with subtle problems. I'm afraid even a mild admonition would lead of over zealous rejection of legitimate use cases for exceptions. For uses cases that actually need non-local control flow, there are worse things you can do than use exceptions (i.e. returning an error token up a chain of function calls requiring if-error logic at every step along the way). In particular, exceptions for control-flow are a good solution to some challenges that arise in larger programs (i.e. problems encountered in low level logic can only be handled by high level user interface logic, and the intermediate level business logic serves only as a pass through). It seems to me that the issues with StopIteration were mostly caused by having multiple control conditions all sharing the same exception (i.e. a function inside a for-loop can't use StopIteration to control an outer loop; the latter would need its own distinction exception). P.S. For those who are interested, the book The Little MLer does a great job showing how exceptions for control-flow can be used simplify recursive functions. -- nosy: +rhettinger ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue18472] Update PEP 8 to encourage modern conventions
Nick Coghlan added the comment: The exception one is near-and-dear to my heart at the moment, as we're in the process of refactoring a large app that currently does various checks in the UI layer so it can present nice errors, when it should really be leaving those checks to the business logic layer and then throwing app specific exceptions that the UI layer understands and can present to the users. As Raymond noted, I think we need to be very cautious when it comes to exception handling, especially with Go advocates propagating all sorts of foolishness about the evils of exceptions and the notion that return codes are somehow now a superior approach :P However, I'm not sure we have a guideline about using deterministic resource management to better cope with unexpected exceptions - I'll look into that. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue18472 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
