Re: request for guidance
On Saturday, December 14, 2013 10:41:09 AM UTC+5:30, David Hutto wrote:
> Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean reinventing the wheel is a bad
> thing, just that once you get the hang of things, you need to
> display some creativity in your work to set yourself apart from the
> rest.
> Nowadays, everyone's a programmer.
> If it weren't for reinventing the wheel, then we wouldn't have
> abs(antilock breaking systems), or new materials, or different
> treading for water displacement or hydroplaning.
> The point was just to try something in python, and to 'boldly go
> where no 'man' has gone before'. Just to remind her that it's not
> just about python, but what you can accomplish with it, and
> distinguish yourself from others.
To complement what David is saying, programmers need to know
programming but a lot else besides in order to become even minimally
productive. eg
Primary Development tools/aids
1. Help
2. Interpreter-CLI
3. Interpreter-Introspection
4. Editor
5. Completion ('intellisense')
6. Tags (navigation)
7. Refactoring
8. Integration with 'non-programming' below
Other Development Tools
1. Debugger
2. Profiler
3. Heap Profiler
4. Coverage
Non-Programming
Area | Tool(s)
--+--
packaging| distutils, setuptools
| pip
| Native tools (eg apt)
versioning | hg, git, bzr
multiple pythons | virtualenv
automation | tox
testing | unittest, nose, pytest
build| scons, make...
deployment | fabric
Yeah I know this can sound a bit intimidating :-)
In actual practice most active developers need to know about 30% of the above
But you need to know which is your 30% ;-)
PS. Yeah you can say Im just a teacher trying to justify my job!! On
the other side, for years I argued with the authorities that a 3 year
CS degree could be reduced to 6 months.
But I dont think it could be reduced to 6 days... or even 6 weeks
--
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Re: Eliminate "extra" variable
Tim,
On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2013-12-08 12:58, Igor Korot wrote:
>> Also, the data comes from either SQLite or mySQL and so to eliminate
>> the difference between those engines dates are processed as strings
>> and converted to dates for the calculation purposes only.
>> Maybe I will need to refactor SQLite processing to get the dates as
>> dates and not a string, but that's probably for the future. so that
>> dates will be kept as the datetime type until the end of the
>> function. As I wrote the dates will be used as the text for the
>> plotting window axis labels and as the labels they should come out
>> as strings, hence the conversion.
>
> Sqlite can do this automatically if you tell it to upon connecting:
>
import sqlite3
conn = sqlite3.connect('x.sqlite',
> ...detect_types=sqlite3.PARSE_DECLTYPES|sqlite3.PARSE_COLNAMES)
cur.execute("create table foo (s date);")
>
import datetime
today = datetime.date.today()
cur.execute("insert into foo(s) values (?)", (today,))
>
cur.execute("select * from foo")
>
r = cur.fetchone()
print r
> (datetime.date(2013, 12, 8),)
Interesting.
I'm using datetime rather than the date type for CREATE TABLE() command.
And when running SELECT I still see the b'1998-08-05 23:12:12' string
representation when running my program under debugger.
And it is confirmed by running this:
>>> cur.execute("CREATE TABLE foo(bar datetime);")
>>> import datetime
>>> today = datetime.date.today()
>>> cur.execute("insert into foo(bar) values (?)", (today,))
>>> cur.execute("select * from foo")
>>> res = cur.fetchall()
>>> print res
[(u'2013-12-14',)]
>>>
So, I guess this is a bug in the sqlite3 python module as datetime is
legal data type on the DB engine.
Thank you.
>
>
> Note that it returns a datetime.date, the same as it was defined.
>
> -tkc
>
>
>
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On Sunday, December 15, 2013 10:30:12 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Mark had done most of the > work. I hadn't realised that others had contributed most of the practical > advice. To be fair, I added the stuff to the wiki on Mark's prompting. Earlier was under the impression that not anyone could edit the wiki. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python, Help to get script working?
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Mark wrote: > I have successfully installed python 3.3 for windows, pip and livestreamer > that is needed for it to work. What I'm seeing in that script suggests that it actually needs Python 2.7, not 3.3. The best approach would be to make it work with Python 3, but if you can't do that, try installing Python 2. But more generally, when you get errors, it helps *hugely* to copy and paste the error - don't just say "on line 19", and leave us to guess what error you're getting :) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 3:42 PM, rusi wrote: > To me all this GG complaining sounds like some elderly mom-pop-uncle > who weeps/coaxes/moans/pleads/grumbles/ about a fused light bulb, > rather than climbing on a stool and changing the bloody thing. No, it's like moaning about Foo Brand light bulbs that die after two weeks, when there are perfectly good light bulbs that last for years if you'll just use a different brand. And there are people who say "But Foo Brand light bulbs are easy, you just go up on a ladder every time you want to turn it on and make sure there's a good bulb in it!". ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On 12/14/2013 9:39 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:43:41 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote: This was reported by Victor Stinner as part of http://bugs.python.org/issue19914 to explain how cp65001 causes behavior like this with Python's interactive help() function (which more for paging on Windows). >>> help(str) Not enough memory. Terry, I see you have closed the bug report. I think you were a little hasty. I might have been premature, but I was not hasty. I read the SO reports and though about it for an hour or so while looking at other issues. I did not see any use to leaving it open as I did not see any realistic propect of a useful and acceptible patch to Python. The OP himself said that i/o did not work with 65001 and that not using it fixed his issue. The ultimate cause of the bug may be the failure of Window's "more" command when the code-page is set to CP-65001, but that doesn't necessarily imply that Python shouldn't, or can't, do something about it. I believe running Python on Windows with cp=65001 falls in the category of "Don't do that". This is based on my experiences and the reported experience of other developers who have tried and failed to make it work, reinforced by the SO thread and a couple of other web pages. The interactive help system already supports different pagers, depending on the environment. I think that it could fall back on a more primitive pager if the preferred one fails. Do you know if 'more' actually signals failure? Do you know if there are any other situations in which a pager fails? The relevant code is the pager() and getpager() functions in the pydoc module. The patch won't be trivial, but I think it can be done, and I think it should be done. Although possibly for Python 3.5 rather than a bug-fix version. Your thoughts? My thought is that if the only situation in which a pager fails is one that one should not use, because other things will also fail, then a patch would not be worth the bother. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New to Python, Help to get script working?
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 20:51:59 -0800, Mark wrote: > Hey guys, I found this website that has a script in order to increase > numbers to a live viewing stream. Being new to python, I keep running > into problems trying to get it to work. > > The original site is here, as he talks about how it works. It is the top > article. > > http://www.ericzhang.me/ > > I have successfully installed python 3.3 for windows, Great! But what version of Python is that script written for? [...] > I get errors on line 19 and cant get it to work at all. Errors plural? Multiple errors on one line? That's unusual. Please copy and paste (don't summarise or re-type from memory) the entire traceback showing the full error you get. That is, copy and paste *everything* from the first line Traceback (most recent call last) all the way to the end of the error message. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 20:42:40 -0800, rusi wrote: > On Sunday, December 15, 2013 4:21:08 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> Apart from annoying the bystanders, your repeated angry and abusive >> screeds aimed at JMF in particular but others as well over minor >> formatting issues is more disruptive than the issues you are >> complaining about. I am grateful to you for taking the time and effort >> to write up a wiki page on fixing this issues, but gratitude for that >> will only go so far in forgiving disruptive behaviour. > > I guess you are talking about > https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython > > As you will see > https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython?action=info > > most of the edits there are by rurpy and the recent ones (sorry I missed > putting comments) which are for a more automatic solution are by me. I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Mark had done most of the work. I hadn't realised that others had contributed most of the practical advice. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
New to Python, Help to get script working?
Hey guys, I found this website that has a script in order to increase numbers to a live viewing stream. Being new to python, I keep running into problems trying to get it to work. The original site is here, as he talks about how it works. It is the top article. http://www.ericzhang.me/ I have successfully installed python 3.3 for windows, pip and livestreamer that is needed for it to work. They are in my scripts folder. I either do not understand the script or it no longer works. It is more than likely my error. I get errors on line 19 and cant get it to work at all. The included code is located here https://gist.github.com/Xeroday/6468146/raw/1b7fb468551a4ba5b73ea3c0b7bc47591c3a8c51/Twitch.py If anybody could provide some incite on how to get it to work, how the variables work, and such, I would be so grateful! Mark -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On Sunday, December 15, 2013 4:21:08 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Apart from annoying the bystanders, your repeated angry and abusive > screeds aimed at JMF in particular but others as well over minor > formatting issues is more disruptive than the issues you are complaining > about. I am grateful to you for taking the time and effort to write up a > wiki page on fixing this issues, but gratitude for that will only go so > far in forgiving disruptive behaviour. I guess you are talking about https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython As you will see https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython?action=info most of the edits there are by rurpy and the recent ones (sorry I missed putting comments) which are for a more automatic solution are by me. [No I am not asking for 'gratitude'... just sayin' and giving some context] There was this ridiculous guy Jonas https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-October/658671.html who responded to calls to correct the typical GG mess with more and more exceptional rudeness https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-October/658816.html So I thought to myself: Well this is too much! And yet while the rudeness is indefensible the technical grumble: "I'm not going to go deleting newlines" is not. Hell! Rather than making a socio-eco-politco-anthropo-marxist-feminist mess, why dont we fix a technical problem technically?? To me all this GG complaining sounds like some elderly mom-pop-uncle who weeps/coaxes/moans/pleads/grumbles/ about a fused light bulb, rather than climbing on a stool and changing the bloody thing. So, given that I am a programmer I came up (with some tips from Kushal Kumaran?) with a technical solution. If I were an ace programmer (can learn JS in a day and make useful contributions) it would have been a 0-click solution. [And if I were a super-ace, it would have been a beneficient virus, that would comb the net, discover all GG users and self-install without anyone's knowing] Since I am not ace or super-ace but only a humble programmer (like Dijkstra!) its a 2-click solution that needs installation :-; Still, GIVEN THE CONTEXT -- addressing not anyone but an already-GG user who is clueless about the nuisance he's causing -- I think this solution is easiest to all. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: min max from tuples in list
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > >> >>Well "performant" is performant enough for the purposes of communicating >>on the python list I think :D > > Most probably could figure it out as being stylistically similar to >"conformant", which I believe IS used in English > >conformant => something that conforms >performant => something that performs Yes, I suspect it comes from people expecting too much consistency. If something that has "conformance" is "conformant", then something that has good "performance" must be "performant". -- Tim Roberts, t...@probo.com Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: a Python Static Analyzer
On 15/12/2013 02:36, Chris Rebert wrote: On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Dan Stromberg wrote: Where does PySonar2 sit in the spectrum from pylint (thorough/pedantic) to pyflakes (relaxed/few-false-positives)? I use pylint and pyflakes a lot, and I've heard that PyChecker sits in between them on this axis. My impression is that PyChecker has been abandoned. The last commit in its SourceForge CVS repo is from 2008, and `pip install PyChecker` fails. Cheers, Chris I've no idea as to the real status of Pyflakes so hopefully this https://mail.python.org/pipermail/code-quality/2013-December/000189.html is just a temporary hickup. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: a Python Static Analyzer
On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Dan Stromberg wrote: > Where does PySonar2 sit in the spectrum from pylint > (thorough/pedantic) to pyflakes (relaxed/few-false-positives)? > > I use pylint and pyflakes a lot, and I've heard that PyChecker sits in > between them on this axis. My impression is that PyChecker has been abandoned. The last commit in its SourceForge CVS repo is from 2008, and `pip install PyChecker` fails. Cheers, Chris -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:43:41 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote: > This was reported by Victor Stinner as part of > http://bugs.python.org/issue19914 > to explain how cp65001 causes behavior like this with Python's > interactive help() function (which more for paging on Windows). > > >>> help(str) > Not enough memory. Terry, I see you have closed the bug report. I think you were a little hasty. The ultimate cause of the bug may be the failure of Window's "more" command when the code-page is set to CP-65001, but that doesn't necessarily imply that Python shouldn't, or can't, do something about it. The interactive help system already supports different pagers, depending on the environment. I think that it could fall back on a more primitive pager if the preferred one fails. The relevant code is the pager() and getpager() functions in the pydoc module. The patch won't be trivial, but I think it can be done, and I think it should be done. Although possibly for Python 3.5 rather than a bug-fix version. Your thoughts? -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: a Python Static Analyzer
On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 4:35 PM, wrote: > Hi, > > I thought it would be worth contributing some awareness of Yin Wang's > PySonar2 Python static analyzer being open sourced, it's here > https://github.com/yinwang0/pysonar2. I recently converted it from being > implemented in Java to being implemented in Python - here > https://github.com/ariejdl/pysonarsq. All the critical tests pass, it may > interest pythonistas to be able to hack on something like this actually in > Python. This is interesting. Where does PySonar2 sit in the spectrum from pylint (thorough/pedantic) to pyflakes (relaxed/few-false-positives)? I use pylint and pyflakes a lot, and I've heard that PyChecker sits in between them on this axis. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [newbie] trying socket as a replacement for nc
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2013-12-12, Dan Stromberg wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 6:16 AM, Grant Edwards >> wrote: >> Sockets reserve the right to split one socket.send() into multiple socket.recv()'s on the other end of the communication, or to aggregate multiple socket.send()'s into a single socket.recv() - pretty much any way the relevant IP stacks and communications equipment feel like for the sake of performance or reliability. >>> >>> Just to be pedantic: _TCP_ sockets reserver that right. UDP sockets >>> do not, and do in fact guarantee that each message is discrete. [It >>> appears that the OP is undoubtedly using TCP sockets.] >> >> I haven't done a lot of UDP, but are you pretty sure UDP can't at >> least fragment large packets? What's a router or switch to do if the >> Path MTU isn't large enough for an original packet? >> >> http://www.gamedev.net/topic/343577-fragmented-udp-packets/ > > You're conflating IP datagrams and Ethernet packets. The IP stack can > fragment an IP datagram into multiple Ethernet packets which are then > reassembled by the receiving IP stack into a single datagram before > being passed up to the next layer (in this case, UDP). As long as you're saying this of UDP, I have no problem with it. I've seen TCP fragment and not be reassembled though, which suggests to me that the reassembly's happening in UDP rather than IP. If it's done by IP the same way for UDP and TCP, I'd not trust it in UDP either. > Did you read the thread you pointed to? Your question was answerd by > posting #4 in the thread you cited: > >1) Yes, packets will be fragmented at the network layer (IP), but this > is something you do not have to worry about since the network > layer will reassemble the fragments before passing them back up > to the transport layer (UDP). UDP garentees preserved message > boundaries, so you never have to worry about only receiving a > packet fragment :~). Actually, I believe the link I sent (which I skimmed) had people coming down on both sides of the matter. Some said that UDP would be fine for small datagrams, while others said it would be fine, irrespective of size. > > A few other references: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc791 > > 1.1. Motivation > > [...] The internet protocol provides for transmitting blocks of data > called datagrams from sources to destinations, [...] The internet > protocol also provides for fragmentation and reassembly of long > datagrams, if necessary, for transmission through "small packet" > networks. I've personally seen this fail to occur in TCP - EG, it can cause a stream of bytes to be written to tape with inconsistent block sizes if transferred over rsh or ssh. Usually the block sizes are consistent, but not always. Both SunOS 4.1.x and Ultrix had this issue; Ultrix did it less often than SunOS, but Ultrix did do it. I don't know for certain if later *ix have the same issue, because I've been diligently working around it ever since, but I suspect they do. I've seen old time socket programmers explain that it cannot be relied upon in TCP; send() and recv() and (read() and write()) are system calls that return a length so that you can loop on them until all relevant data has been transferred. They don't return that length just so you can ignore it. >From the Socket HOWTO (http://docs.python.org/2/howto/sockets.html#socket-howto) : Now we come to the major stumbling block of sockets - send and recv operate on the network buffers. They do not necessarily handle all the bytes you hand them (or expect from them), because their major focus is handling the network buffers. In general, they return when the associated network buffers have been filled (send) or emptied (recv). They then tell you how many bytes they handled. It is your responsibility to call them again until your message has been completely dealt with. HTH -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [newbie] trying socket as a replacement for nc
On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 5:33 AM, Jean Dubois wrote:
> Op vrijdag 13 december 2013 16:35:31 UTC+1 schreef Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>> - Original Message -
>> > I have an ethernet-rs232 adapter which allows me to connect to a
>> > measurement instrument by means of netcat on a linux system.
>> > e.g. entering nc 10.128.59.63 7000
>> > allows me to enter e.g.
>> > *IDN?
>> > after which I get an identification string of the measurement
>> > instrument back.
>> > I thought I could accomplish the same using the python module
>> > "socket"
>> > and tried out the sample program below which doesn't work however:
>> > #!/usr/bin/env python
>> >
>> > """
>> > A simple echo client
>> > """
>> > import socket
>> > host = '10.128.59.63'
>> > port = 7000
>> > size = 10
>> > s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>> > s.connect((host,port))
>> > s.send('*IDN?')
>> > data = s.recv(size)
>> > s.close()
>> > print 'Received:', data
>> >
>> > Can anyone here tell me how to do it properly?
>> > thanks in advance
>> > jean
>> Such equipment often implements a telnet protocol. Have use try using the
>> telnetlib module ?
>> http://docs.python.org/2/library/telnetlib.html
>> t = Telnet(host, port)
>> t.write('*IDN?')
>> print t.read_until('Whateverprompt')
>> # you can use read_very_eager also
>> JM
> Thanks for the suggestion, I'll first wait for a response from Dan Stromberg
> concerning how to install his module, if he doesn't answer or if I'm still
> unsuccessfull then I'll try out your suggestion
>
> kind regards,
> jean
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
You can "svn checkout ". You might try Sliksvn if you're on
Windows, or if you're on Linux it's in synaptic or yum or whatever.
You can "wget ".
You can bring up the URL in a web browser and cut and paste.
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a Python Static Analyzer
Hi, I thought it would be worth contributing some awareness of Yin Wang's PySonar2 Python static analyzer being open sourced, it's here https://github.com/yinwang0/pysonar2. I recently converted it from being implemented in Java to being implemented in Python - here https://github.com/ariejdl/pysonarsq. All the critical tests pass, it may interest pythonistas to be able to hack on something like this actually in Python. Thanks, Arie -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On 14/12/2013 22:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 21:05:05 +, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 14/12/2013 20:48, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: print((os.linesep).join([unicodedata.name(c) for c in u])) ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE SEE LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE EURO SIGN CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-3456 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER GJE COUNTERBORE ASTERISK - cp65001, font: Consolas D:\jm\jmgo>echo "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" As I explained some chars are rendered with the .notdef glyph: the chars 1, 4 and 7. I build an exe with the golang. Same result. Just for curiosity: XeTeX -> pdf: same result. LucidaConsole CID TrueType, Consolas CID TrueType understand: "OpenType" jmf Where is the Python related issue here? Read the whole thread before charging in like a bull at a gate accusing people of being off-topic. This is on-topic, and if you don't see the connection, you need to read the whole thread. I have. Going back over this thread the words from Terry Reedy make things perfectly clear that this is a *WINDOWS* problem, not a *PYTHON* one. Chris Angelico also weighed in, but again he was simply ignored. Instead some completely irrelevant cobblers turned up from "Joseph McCarthy". Why do you keep posting double spaced crap, despite repeated requests not to do so? Or do you blame this on the allegedly failed PEP 393 FSR implementation? I see no double-spacing in the text you quoted. There is no double spacing because for the umpteenth time I've snipped the whole damn lot. Do you have nothing better to do than continually hassle people over minor formatting issues? This is *NOT* a minor formatting issue, it's a big PITA that should be stopped at source. It would be easier for this to happen if and only if people would stop defending the bug ridden crap tools that are being used to send the double spaced crap. Oh Lord, won't you buy me Mozilla Thunderbird ? My friends all use GG, I think that's absurd. Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from the nerds, So Lord, won't you buy me Mozilla Thunderbird ? Formatting issues are harmful to the degree they get in the way of efficient communication. Since by your own admission you have never treated JMF as being credible, there's nothing he can write or say that you will believe, so why do you care what he writes? You are not the target of his communication unless you choose to be. While he continues to talk crap here I will respond, as I will also complain about double spaced google crap until it stops. I will further state again that I find his disgusting, unwarrented attacks on the PEP 393 FSR indefensible, and are also an attack on the core developers who've taken the time to deliver a faster, (relatively) bug free and lower memory useage implementation of unicode for Python 3.3+. Apart from annoying the bystanders, your repeated angry and abusive screeds aimed at JMF in particular but others as well over minor formatting issues is more disruptive than the issues you are complaining about. I am grateful to you for taking the time and effort to write up a wiki page on fixing this issues, but gratitude for that will only go so far in forgiving disruptive behaviour. Your opinion, obviously I disagree, these IMO are *NOT* minor issues, and they're also completely avoidable. Stop the problems at source and there are no issues to complain about. I've written no such thing, I simply point it out half a dozen times a day as the latest pile of crap turns up here. Stop the problems at source and there are no issues to complain about. Yes, that's there twice so nobody can miss it. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:01:58 -0700, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 12/14/2013 10:05 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: >> Tkinter is a bit "special" to use since it's not just a library, but >> uses some kind of RPC. It seems that "look and feel" have been greatly >> improved lately. > > I know Tkinter originated with the Tcl/Tk language. With Tkinter in > Python is it still using Tcl/Tk under the hood? IE embeds the Tcl > language interpreter into Python's interpreter? If so I've always found > it a bit strange that the de facto GUI library that's shipped with > Python ships an entirely different language with it under the hood. That's just the "Interpreter" design pattern, except the Domain Specific Language is already written for you :-) (I'm half-serious here.) But more seriously, 100% seriously in fact, I think that you'll find that *every* GUI framework for Python ships with an entirely different language under the hood, usually C. Even if the top level of the framework is written in Python, the underlying graphics routines used for drawing controls and windows will surely not be. Given that the actual maintenance of the GUI itself is unlikely to be a bottleneck in any real application, I don't think it is a significant problem efficiency-wise that Python tkinter relies on an intermediate framework written in Tcl. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 21:05:05 +, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 14/12/2013 20:48, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: >> > print((os.linesep).join([unicodedata.name(c) for c in u])) >> ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE SEE >> LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE >> EURO SIGN >> CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-3456 >> CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER GJE >> COUNTERBORE >> ASTERISK >> >> - >> >> cp65001, font: Consolas >> >> D:\jm\jmgo>echo "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" >> "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" >> >> As I explained some chars are rendered with the .notdef glyph: the >> chars 1, 4 and 7. >> >> I build an exe with the golang. Same result. >> >> Just for curiosity: >> XeTeX -> pdf: same result. >> LucidaConsole CID TrueType, >> Consolas CID TrueType >> understand: "OpenType" >> >> jmf >> >> > Where is the Python related issue here? Read the whole thread before charging in like a bull at a gate accusing people of being off-topic. This is on-topic, and if you don't see the connection, you need to read the whole thread. > Why do you keep posting double spaced crap, despite repeated requests > not to do so? Or do you blame this on the allegedly failed PEP 393 > FSR implementation? I see no double-spacing in the text you quoted. Do you have nothing better to do than continually hassle people over minor formatting issues? Formatting issues are harmful to the degree they get in the way of efficient communication. Since by your own admission you have never treated JMF as being credible, there's nothing he can write or say that you will believe, so why do you care what he writes? You are not the target of his communication unless you choose to be. Apart from annoying the bystanders, your repeated angry and abusive screeds aimed at JMF in particular but others as well over minor formatting issues is more disruptive than the issues you are complaining about. I am grateful to you for taking the time and effort to write up a wiki page on fixing this issues, but gratitude for that will only go so far in forgiving disruptive behaviour. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On 14/12/2013 20:48, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: print((os.linesep).join([unicodedata.name(c) for c in u])) ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE SEE LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE EURO SIGN CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-3456 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER GJE COUNTERBORE ASTERISK - cp65001, font: Consolas D:\jm\jmgo>echo "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" As I explained some chars are rendered with the .notdef glyph: the chars 1, 4 and 7. I build an exe with the golang. Same result. Just for curiosity: XeTeX -> pdf: same result. LucidaConsole CID TrueType, Consolas CID TrueType understand: "OpenType" jmf Where is the Python related issue here? Why do you keep posting double spaced crap, despite repeated requests not to do so? Or do you blame this on the allegedly failed PEP 393 FSR implementation? -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
On 12/14/2013 3:01 PM, Michael Torrie wrote: On 12/14/2013 10:05 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: Tkinter is a bit "special" to use since it's not just a library, but uses some kind of RPC. It seems that "look and feel" have been greatly improved lately. I know Tkinter originated with the Tcl/Tk language. Tcl is the language. Its standard interpreter is written in C, as with Python. (I do not know if there are other Tcl implementations.) Tk is the gui framework written, I believe, in a mixture of Tcl and C. Tkinter (Tk interface) is entirely a Python to Tcl/Tk and back interface. With Tkinter in Python is it still using Tcl/Tk under the hood? Yes. _tkinter.c defines Python-callable functions that call Tcl/Tk C api functions. tkinter.py defines Python classes and methods. The methods call _tkinter functions. Most of the classes correspond to Tk widgets such as Button and Text. IE embeds the Tcl language interpreter into Python's interpreter? Both interpreters run in one process. > If so I've always found it a bit strange that the de facto GUI library that's shipped with Python ships an entirely different language with it under the hood. Tcl/Tk is only shipped with the Windows Python installer. On other systems, it is a separate install if not already present. There once (over 10 years ago) was a project to re-write Tk entirely in C. What I read it that people decided that Tk made too much use of Tcl functions to make that worthwhile. There have been starts on projects to write a gui framework based on Python and wrapped C libraries. PyGui is one, last updated July 2011. http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/ -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
Le samedi 14 décembre 2013 19:43:41 UTC+1, Terry Reedy a écrit : > On 12/14/2013 9:03 AM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > D:\>chcp 65001 > > > Page de codes active : 65001 > > > D:\>echo "*" > > > "*" > > > > Try pasting *your* original echo command: echo "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" > > > > To repeat, here is what I see: > > ''' > > C:\Users\Terry>echo "?‚*" > > "?‚*" > > > > C:\Users\Terry>chcp 65001 > > Active code page: 65001 > > > > C:\Users\Terry>echo "*" > > The system cannot write to the specified device. > > ''' > > To repeat, the second time I paste: echo "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" > > but Command Prompt only displays: echo "*". Typing in the latter, > > ascii-only, command is meaningless. > > > > A similar test: > > ''' > > C:\Users\Terry>more > > ^Z > > > > C:\Users\Terry>chcp 65001 > > Active code page: 65001 > > > > C:\Users\Terry>more > > Not enough memory. > > ''' > > This was reported by Victor Stinner as part of > > http://bugs.python.org/issue19914 > > to explain how cp65001 causes behavior like this with Python's > > interactive help() function (which more for paging on Windows). > > > > >>> help(str) > > Not enough memory. > > > > See > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3401802/codepage-850-works-65001-fails-there-is-no-response-to-call-foo-cmd-interna > > for other reports that cp65001 fails. It is not just me. > > > >>> print((os.linesep).join([unicodedata.name(c) for c in u])) ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE SEE LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE EURO SIGN CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-3456 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER GJE COUNTERBORE ASTERISK - cp65001, font: Consolas D:\jm\jmgo>echo "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" As I explained some chars are rendered with the .notdef glyph: the chars 1, 4 and 7. I build an exe with the golang. Same result. Just for curiosity: XeTeX -> pdf: same result. LucidaConsole CID TrueType, Consolas CID TrueType understand: "OpenType" jmf -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
In article <52acb936.3020...@gmail.com>, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 12/14/2013 10:05 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > > Tkinter is a bit "special" to use since it's not just a library, but > > uses some kind of RPC. It seems that "look and feel" have been greatly > > improved lately. > I know Tkinter originated with the Tcl/Tk language. With Tkinter in > Python is it still using Tcl/Tk under the hood? IE embeds the Tcl > language interpreter into Python's interpreter? Yes, it does. > If so I've always found > it a bit strange that the de facto GUI library that's shipped with > Python ships an entirely different language with it under the hood. It is a bit strange but, back in the day, there wasn't a better multi-platform GUI option and, even today, Tk (and Tcl) remain attractive because it is supported on the many important platforms and does not have the license issues that some other GUI toolkits have had. And because of inertia. Also, Python is not alone in this: Perl and Ruby also have Tk bindings that work the same way, AFAIK. -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
On 12/14/2013 10:42 AM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: > The other big, widely-used GUI toolkit is PyQt. It runs on > both Python2 and Python3. There is another version of it > called PySide which is API compatible with PyQt but has > different licensing terms. PyQt comes with a very good > drag-and-drop form designer. Just to be clear, PyQt does not provide the drag and drop form designer. That comes from QtDesigner or QtCreator, which is part of Qt itself and you can use it to design GUIs for use in any language that Qt has bindings for, not just Python. PyQt probably does come with a code generator to convert the xml GUI definitions into Python, but these days such use is discouraged in favor of using Qt itself to load the XML file at runtime and build the objects on the fly for you. It's way more flexible and there's no code generation needed. (Apple has done this for years with Cocoa with their nib files in the bundle.) > I have played a little with both wxPython an PyQt and found > learning to use them from the web difficult because of their > size and complexity. But both of them have pretty good books > about them available: Yes there are concepts you'll have to wrap your brain around such as how to do proper widget layout. Things aren't placed in a fixed way usually. They are allowed to grow and shrink with the window size. And you will have to grasp how events work. Of all the APIs I've used, I think GTK in Python is the cleanest (PyGTK or PyObject). But if I was targeting Windows or Mac I'd stick with PySides/PyQt. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
On 12/14/2013 10:05 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > PyQt looks native everywhere, but it might be a bit overweight, > depending on what you want to do and where your applications need to > run. > > And then there's the licensing issue, since PyQt, unlike Qt itself, is > not available under LGPL afaik. For closed-source commercial > applications, there seems to be a way to use a commercially licensed > PyQt (much less expensive than Qt itself) together with LGPL-Qt > however. Pyside would be a LGPL alternative to PyQt, but it doesn't > seem to be as up-to-date as PyQt. I think PyQt is slowly being pushed aside in favor of PySide, which is more license-friendly for use in closed or open projects. I would recommend using PySide unless PyQt is a requirement for your project. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
On 12/14/2013 10:05 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > Tkinter is a bit "special" to use since it's not just a library, but > uses some kind of RPC. It seems that "look and feel" have been greatly > improved lately. I know Tkinter originated with the Tcl/Tk language. With Tkinter in Python is it still using Tcl/Tk under the hood? IE embeds the Tcl language interpreter into Python's interpreter? If so I've always found it a bit strange that the de facto GUI library that's shipped with Python ships an entirely different language with it under the hood. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: collections Counter most_common method
Mark Lawrence wrote:
> This method returns a list, the example from The Fine Docs being:-
>
> >>> Counter('abracadabra').most_common(3)
> [('a', 5), ('r', 2), ('b', 2)]
>
> With the trend in Python being more and more towards methods returning
> iterators, is there ever likely to be an imost_common method, or has
> this been suggested and rejected, or what? I'm really just curious, but
> if enough people were to express an interest and it hasn't already been
> done, I'd happily raise an enhancement request on the bug tracker.
As Counter is currently a dict you have to look at all items to find the
most common. With that underlying data structure I don't see how it could
make sense to yield the most common items incrementally. So
(1) When would you prefer it over the the eager variant?
(2) How would you implement it?
By the way, if you can come up with a plausible answer for the second
question you should aim higher, for lazy heapq.nlargest() and sorted()
functions...
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: collections Counter most_common method
In article ,
Mark Lawrence wrote:
> This method returns a list, the example from The Fine Docs being:-
>
> >>> Counter('abracadabra').most_common(3)
> [('a', 5), ('r', 2), ('b', 2)]
>
> With the trend in Python being more and more towards methods returning
> iterators, is there ever likely to be an imost_common method, or has
> this been suggested and rejected, or what? I'm really just curious, but
> if enough people were to express an interest and it hasn't already been
> done, I'd happily raise an enhancement request on the bug tracker.
The reason to return iterators instead of lists is that it's more
efficient if the list is very long. I would imagine the most common use
cases for most_common() are to pass it a number like 3. You typically
want to find the most common, or the three most common, or maybe the 10
most common. It's rare that people want the 5000 most common.
So, while I suppose returning an iterator might be more efficient in
some cases, those cases seem pretty rare.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
collections Counter most_common method
This method returns a list, the example from The Fine Docs being:-
>>> Counter('abracadabra').most_common(3)
[('a', 5), ('r', 2), ('b', 2)]
With the trend in Python being more and more towards methods returning
iterators, is there ever likely to be an imost_common method, or has
this been suggested and rejected, or what? I'm really just curious, but
if enough people were to express an interest and it hasn't already been
done, I'd happily raise an enhancement request on the bug tracker.
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
CP65001 fails (was re: ...)
On 12/14/2013 9:03 AM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: D:\>chcp 65001 Page de codes active : 65001 D:\>echo "*" "*" Try pasting *your* original echo command: echo "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" To repeat, here is what I see: ''' C:\Users\Terry>echo "?‚*" "?‚*" C:\Users\Terry>chcp 65001 Active code page: 65001 C:\Users\Terry>echo "*" The system cannot write to the specified device. ''' To repeat, the second time I paste: echo "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*" but Command Prompt only displays: echo "*". Typing in the latter, ascii-only, command is meaningless. A similar test: ''' C:\Users\Terry>more ^Z C:\Users\Terry>chcp 65001 Active code page: 65001 C:\Users\Terry>more Not enough memory. ''' This was reported by Victor Stinner as part of http://bugs.python.org/issue19914 to explain how cp65001 causes behavior like this with Python's interactive help() function (which more for paging on Windows). >>> help(str) Not enough memory. See http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3401802/codepage-850-works-65001-fails-there-is-no-response-to-call-foo-cmd-interna for other reports that cp65001 fails. It is not just me. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
On 14/12/2013 17:42, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: On 12/14/2013 05:25 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: wxPython currently runs only with Python2, not Python3. There is a drag-and-drop form designer available for it but it is a commercial product that costs money. It also comes with a useable (once you get used to it) form builder tool that works by graphically manipulating a text tree of widgets. Development versions which support Python 3 are available here http://wxpython.org/Phoenix/snapshot-builds/ Unfortunately they've not been updated since 3rd December. I've asked why and been told that Robin Dunn is simply too busy. There's Open Source for you :) As a side point, though: You're using Google Groups to post, which means your posts look messy, because GG doesn't follow internet standards. Short of getting into Google and fixing Groups, the best solution is to avoid using it; you can either use some other newsreader (several here swear by Mozilla Thunderbird), or subscribe to the email list, which carries all the same content: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Either way will spare you and us the hassles of malformed posts. Chris and some other people here dislike Google Groups and try to imply that everyone here feels the same way. Not true. I and many other people here use Google Groups and have been doing so for years so if Google Groups works for you, please feel free to continue using it. If you want to reduce the noise level from people like Chris you might want to take a look at: https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython Of course I dislike Google Groups, users keep sending double spaced crap which I don't want to see. There is no "noise level" from people like Chris, which obviously includes me. There is a constant stream of polite requests not to send double spaced crap which we do not wish to see. There are at least two solutions to this, follow the instructions in the link repeated above for the umpteenth time or use a different tool. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
On 14/12/2013 17:05, Wolfgang Keller wrote: wxWidgets (wxPython) recently (since 2.9/3.0) got support for Cocoa, it's native on the Mac. It's quite slim, but seems to be a "moving target" API-wise, since the developers are not shy from breaking compatibility. Is it compatible with Python 3 yet? This is one of the goals of the so called Phoenix project http://wiki.wxpython.org/ProjectPhoenix -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
On 12/14/2013 05:25 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:12 PM, Jai wrote: >> GUI:-want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed. >> >> There are lots of book here so I am confuse which book i should refer so >> that i don't waste time . please answer > > There are many ways to build a GUI with Python. Some of the more > popular toolkits are Tk (tkinter), wxWidgets (wxpython), and GTK. > Explore those and see which one you like; I personally quite like GTK, > and the others have their fans too. There are GUI builders for each of > the above (I think; definitely wx and GTK do), or you can build > everything directly in code (my preferred style). Play around with it > and see what you like! For learning, tkinter is probably the easiest because it comes with Python and you don't need to install anything else. The best way to get started with it is to search for tutorials and examples on web. Searching for "python tkinter" on Amazon shows a few books but I don't know anything about them. wxPython currently runs only with Python2, not Python3. There is a drag-and-drop form designer available for it but it is a commercial product that costs money. It also comes with a useable (once you get used to it) form builder tool that works by graphically manipulating a text tree of widgets. The other big, widely-used GUI toolkit is PyQt. It runs on both Python2 and Python3. There is another version of it called PySide which is API compatible with PyQt but has different licensing terms. PyQt comes with a very good drag-and-drop form designer. I have played a little with both wxPython an PyQt and found learning to use them from the web difficult because of their size and complexity. But both of them have pretty good books about them available: Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt (Summerfield) http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Python-Prentice-Software-Development/dp/0132354187 WxPython in Action (Dunn and Rapin) http://www.amazon.com/Wxpython-Action-Noel-Rappin/dp/1932394621/ > As a side point, though: You're using Google Groups to post, which > means your posts look messy, because GG doesn't follow internet > standards. Short of getting into Google and fixing Groups, the best > solution is to avoid using it; you can either use some other > newsreader (several here swear by Mozilla Thunderbird), or subscribe > to the email list, which carries all the same content: > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > Either way will spare you and us the hassles of malformed posts. Chris and some other people here dislike Google Groups and try to imply that everyone here feels the same way. Not true. I and many other people here use Google Groups and have been doing so for years so if Google Groups works for you, please feel free to continue using it. If you want to reduce the noise level from people like Chris you might want to take a look at: https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
> GUI:-want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed. > > There are lots of book here so I am confuse which book i should > refer so that i don't waste time . It depends on what you want to do with the GUI, since there are many different GUI frameworks for Python. E.g. If you absolutely need to run your applications on MacOS X, then PyGTK is probably not the best choice. WingIDE, a popular IDE, has been recently ported to PyQt, apparently for this reason. Besides, PyGTK itself seems to be "shelved", PyGObject now (since GTK 3) seems to be the "canonical" way to implement GTK GUIs in Python. Tkinter is a bit "special" to use since it's not just a library, but uses some kind of RPC. It seems that "look and feel" have been greatly improved lately. wxWidgets (wxPython) recently (since 2.9/3.0) got support for Cocoa, it's native on the Mac. It's quite slim, but seems to be a "moving target" API-wise, since the developers are not shy from breaking compatibility. Is it compatible with Python 3 yet? PyQt looks native everywhere, but it might be a bit overweight, depending on what you want to do and where your applications need to run. And then there's the licensing issue, since PyQt, unlike Qt itself, is not available under LGPL afaik. For closed-source commercial applications, there seems to be a way to use a commercially licensed PyQt (much less expensive than Qt itself) together with LGPL-Qt however. Pyside would be a LGPL alternative to PyQt, but it doesn't seem to be as up-to-date as PyQt. And then, there are even more frameworks, such as Pygame, PyGUI, etc And each of these frameworks has dedicated mailinglists. Personally I found it difficult to use any of the "wrapped" C++ frameworks without being able to understand the documentation made for C++. :-( Sincerely, Wolfgang -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it more CPU-efficient to read/write config file or read/write sqlite database?
On 2013-12-14 07:29, JL wrote: > I have a number of python processes which communicate with each > other through writing/reading config text files. The python > ConfigParser is used. I am wondering if it is more CPU-efficient to > switch to using sqlite database instead of using configuration > files. If the software does plenty of reading/writing, is it more > efficient to use config text files or sqlite database? I'm pretty sure that the CPU aspect doesn't really play into things. A few thoughts: + You'll be I/O bound most of the time. Even if you used a ramdisk to reduce disk access delays, accessing multiple .txt files requires the OS to do permission-checking each time, while a single sqlite file gets checked once upon opening the DB initially. + text-files are fragile unless you take extra pains to keep things atomic + sqlite guarantee* atomicity, so you either see all-or-nothing + sqlite is also very efficient for querying + sticking with plain-text config files is just asking for some sort of race-condition or partial-file issue to come up + sqlite may give you less CPU load is just an added benefit -tkc * well, except on NFS shares and other places where file-locking is unreliable -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using pythons smtp server
On 14-12-2013 1:46, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > About then, I discovered the first two significant books on Python at > Computer Literacy, and that an Amiga binary was available (Python 1.4, I > think -- thanks, Irmin). You're welcome, but my name is spelled Irmen, with an 'e' ;-) Cheers Irmen -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it more CPU-efficient to read/write config file or read/write sqlite database?
On 14-12-2013 16:29, JL wrote: > I have a number of python processes which communicate with each other through > writing/reading config text files. The python ConfigParser is used. I am > wondering if > it is more CPU-efficient to switch to using sqlite database instead of using > configuration files. If the software does plenty of reading/writing, is it > more > efficient to use config text files or sqlite database? > > Thank you. > I think you're asking the wrong question... Both options will very likely be constrained by I/O instead of CPU (in other words: do you know for certain that you have a CPU-bottleneck right now?) But both of them aren't well suited for inter process communication. Especially the "reading/writing config files" sounds particularly sketchy. Take a look at the myriad of options for *proper* inter-process communication (if that is what you're after). It also helps to describe your situation in more detail so we can give better answers. Cheers, Irmen -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Is it more CPU-efficient to read/write config file or read/write sqlite database?
I have a number of python processes which communicate with each other through writing/reading config text files. The python ConfigParser is used. I am wondering if it is more CPU-efficient to switch to using sqlite database instead of using configuration files. If the software does plenty of reading/writing, is it more efficient to use config text files or sqlite database? Thank you. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language
On 14/12/2013 14:15, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 1:03 AM, wrote:
D:\>chcp 65001
Page de codes active : 65001
D:\>echo "*"
"*"
D:\>
locale.getdefaultlocale()
('fr_CH', 'cp1252')
--
In my understanding and experience, in the MS world
(desktop, intel), today:
Unicode == utf-16-le
You still haven't explained how Win7 is different from every other
Windows going back as far as NT. Back in the NT days, Windows had
"Unicode" (really UCS-2 - it predated Unicode 2.0, so that was correct
for a few years) while OS/2 had DBCS. Hindsight shows that OS/2 did
kinda get left behind there :) Though maybe it would be easier to
force migration from DBCS to true Unicode than from UTF-16 or UCS-2
where it looks fine till you hit an astral character. Now how is Win7
different from NT? And where does the current "oldstable" Windows (if
I may borrow a term from Debian), XP, fit into that?
If you think, utf-16, because of surrogate pairs, is
not a proper solution, the single choice is utf-32.
You may not be aware, you are already using utf-32
probably much more than you think, (in a correct way).
Yeah. I use UTF-32 a lot, often stored in ways that elide unnecessary
00 bytes. It's a pretty good system, actually, giving high
performance, compact memory usage, and correct behaviour. Still don't
know what this has to do with Win7.
ChrisA
Reread "The Emperor's New Clothes" and you'll get it :)
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 1:03 AM, wrote:
> D:\>chcp 65001
> Page de codes active : 65001
> D:\>echo "*"
> "*"
> D:\>
>
>
locale.getdefaultlocale()
> ('fr_CH', 'cp1252')
>
> --
>
> In my understanding and experience, in the MS world
> (desktop, intel), today:
> Unicode == utf-16-le
You still haven't explained how Win7 is different from every other
Windows going back as far as NT. Back in the NT days, Windows had
"Unicode" (really UCS-2 - it predated Unicode 2.0, so that was correct
for a few years) while OS/2 had DBCS. Hindsight shows that OS/2 did
kinda get left behind there :) Though maybe it would be easier to
force migration from DBCS to true Unicode than from UTF-16 or UCS-2
where it looks fine till you hit an astral character. Now how is Win7
different from NT? And where does the current "oldstable" Windows (if
I may borrow a term from Debian), XP, fit into that?
> If you think, utf-16, because of surrogate pairs, is
> not a proper solution, the single choice is utf-32.
>
> You may not be aware, you are already using utf-32
> probably much more than you think, (in a correct way).
Yeah. I use UTF-32 a lot, often stored in ways that elide unnecessary
00 bytes. It's a pretty good system, actually, giving high
performance, compact memory usage, and correct behaviour. Still don't
know what this has to do with Win7.
ChrisA
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Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language
Le samedi 14 décembre 2013 00:30:38 UTC+1, Terry Reedy a écrit :
>
>
>
>
>
> What is not clear to me is whether Windows internally uses UCS-2, which
>
> only codes BMP chars, and which would *not* be excellent, or UTF-16,
>
> which covers all chars by using surrogates. I will guess the latter.
>
> More to the point, even if MS uses a complete coding scheme internally
>
> (UFT-16), it does not, as far as I know, make it fully available and
>
> usable to *me*, as I showed in my response about code page 65001.
>
>
-
D:\>chcp 65001
Page de codes active : 65001
D:\>echo "*"
"*"
D:\>
>>> locale.getdefaultlocale()
('fr_CH', 'cp1252')
--
In my understanding and experience, in the MS world
(desktop, intel), today:
Unicode == utf-16-le
--
If you think, utf-16, because of surrogate pairs, is
not a proper solution, the single choice is utf-32.
You may not be aware, you are already using utf-32
probably much more than you think, (in a correct way).
jmf
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Re: [newbie] trying socket as a replacement for nc
Op vrijdag 13 december 2013 16:35:31 UTC+1 schreef Jean-Michel Pichavant:
> - Original Message -
> > I have an ethernet-rs232 adapter which allows me to connect to a
> > measurement instrument by means of netcat on a linux system.
> > e.g. entering nc 10.128.59.63 7000
> > allows me to enter e.g.
> > *IDN?
> > after which I get an identification string of the measurement
> > instrument back.
> > I thought I could accomplish the same using the python module
> > "socket"
> > and tried out the sample program below which doesn't work however:
> > #!/usr/bin/env python
> >
> > """
> > A simple echo client
> > """
> > import socket
> > host = '10.128.59.63'
> > port = 7000
> > size = 10
> > s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> > s.connect((host,port))
> > s.send('*IDN?')
> > data = s.recv(size)
> > s.close()
> > print 'Received:', data
> >
> > Can anyone here tell me how to do it properly?
> > thanks in advance
> > jean
> Such equipment often implements a telnet protocol. Have use try using the
> telnetlib module ?
> http://docs.python.org/2/library/telnetlib.html
> t = Telnet(host, port)
> t.write('*IDN?')
> print t.read_until('Whateverprompt')
> # you can use read_very_eager also
> JM
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll first wait for a response from Dan Stromberg
concerning how to install his module, if he doesn't answer or if I'm still
unsuccessfull then I'll try out your suggestion
kind regards,
jean
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Re: [newbie] trying socket as a replacement for nc
On 14/12/2013 13:14, Jean Dubois wrote: Op vrijdag 13 december 2013 09:35:18 UTC+1 schreef Mark Lawrence: On 13/12/2013 03:23, Jean Dubois wrote: kind regards, jean p.s. I'm using Linux/Kubuntu 11.04 Would you please read and action this https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython to prevent us seeing the double line spacing that accompanied the above, thanks. I think I got it right this time. Thanks for helping me through it. kind regards, jean Yep, I've seen a couple of your posts that are just fine. Thanks for taking these steps, I greatly appreciate your efforts. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language
On 14/12/2013 10:00, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:58:14 +, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 13/12/2013 23:17, Ethan Furman wrote: On 12/13/2013 03:10 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: Seems like we're now in the later stages of the 15, three minute rounds. The trainer won't throw in the towel, the referee won't stop the fight and the boxer himself won't quit. Is jmf actually trying to get himself killed? His credibility with me has been long dead. :( -- ~Ethan~ With me it never lived, we've simply had to put up with his FUD for 16 months. Mark, do you really mean to say that you were prejudiced against JMF before he even write a word here? Strange thing to say, since he did actually identify a real performance regression, even if he has since become obsessed with demonstrating that a micro-performance slowdown means that Python is mathematically and logically broken. IIRC he first started spreading his rubbish sometime in August 2012, I make that around 16 months, what does your maths skills make it? He also identified a problem in an edge case that stood out like a sore thumb when compared to real world cases. Big deal. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [newbie] trying socket as a replacement for nc
Op vrijdag 13 december 2013 09:35:18 UTC+1 schreef Mark Lawrence: > On 13/12/2013 03:23, Jean Dubois wrote: > > > > kind regards, > > jean > > p.s. I'm using Linux/Kubuntu 11.04 > > > Would you please read and action this > https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython to prevent us seeing the > double line spacing that accompanied the above, thanks. I think I got it right this time. Thanks for helping me through it. kind regards, jean -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [newbie] trying socket as a replacement for nc
Op vrijdag 13 december 2013 18:09:50 UTC+1 schreef rusi: > On Friday, December 13, 2013 5:50:03 PM UTC+5:30, Jean Dubois wrote: > > to make the script check itself whether pyhon2 or python3 should be used? > As far as I know both (2 and 3) worked > Do you have some reason to suspect one works and other not? The reason I suggested this is that the script has #!/usr/bin/env python3 as the first line. When you have python2 installed and not python3 a newbie will probably not understand why it doesn't work. kind regards, jean -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
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Re: GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:12 PM, Jai wrote: > GUI:-want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed. > > There are lots of book here so I am confuse which book i should refer so > that i don't waste time . please answer There are many ways to build a GUI with Python. Some of the more popular toolkits are Tk (tkinter), wxWidgets (wxpython), and GTK. Explore those and see which one you like; I personally quite like GTK, and the others have their fans too. There are GUI builders for each of the above (I think; definitely wx and GTK do), or you can build everything directly in code (my preferred style). Play around with it and see what you like! As a side point, though: You're using Google Groups to post, which means your posts look messy, because GG doesn't follow internet standards. Short of getting into Google and fixing Groups, the best solution is to avoid using it; you can either use some other newsreader (several here swear by Mozilla Thunderbird), or subscribe to the email list, which carries all the same content: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Either way will spare you and us the hassles of malformed posts. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
GUI:-please answer want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed.
GUI:-want to learn GUI programming in python , how should i proceed. There are lots of book here so I am confuse which book i should refer so that i don't waste time . please answer -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: accessing a page which request an openID authentication
On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:42:37 +, Denis McMahon wrote: > On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 02:32:49 -0800, uni.mail.2014 wrote: > >> I have a page that request an openID authentication > > And your Python question is? I thought the question was fairly obvious. How would you access a page using OpenID in Python? The "in Python" should be implied by the fact that it was posted to a Python forum rather than a Ruby/Forth/C/Go/Scheme/whatever forum. Presumably the poster is an expert Python coder who just needs a pointer to some library that handles OpenID, probably because Google is blocked in whatever part of the world he is posting from. As are Bing, DuckDuckGo, and Yahoo. (It must suck to be a programmer in North Korea.) To uni.mail.2014, if that is your real name, you'll improve the quality of the answers to your questions if you improve the quality of your questions. What gave you tried? What result did you get? What result did you expect? What version of Python are you using? What level of hand- holding do you require, e.g. are you a Python expert or beginner? -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language
On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:58:14 +, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 13/12/2013 23:17, Ethan Furman wrote: >> On 12/13/2013 03:10 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: >>> >>> Seems like we're now in the later stages of the 15, three minute >>> rounds. The trainer won't throw in the towel, the referee won't stop >>> the fight and the boxer himself won't quit. Is jmf actually trying to >>> get himself killed? >> >> His credibility with me has been long dead. :( >> >> -- >> ~Ethan~ > > With me it never lived, we've simply had to put up with his FUD for 16 > months. Mark, do you really mean to say that you were prejudiced against JMF before he even write a word here? Strange thing to say, since he did actually identify a real performance regression, even if he has since become obsessed with demonstrating that a micro-performance slowdown means that Python is mathematically and logically broken. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language
On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:49:32 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 12/13/2013 11:15 AM, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote: >> Le jeudi 12 décembre 2013 18:55:15 UTC+1, Terry Reedy a écrit : > >>> If you mean cp65xxx (I forget exact numbers), MS Command Prompt fails, >>> not Python. One should not use any other code page, but only other >>> code pages work. > >> Please, do not exaggerate too much. > > I try not to, so in case I mis-remembered, I tried your experiment. Terry, thanks for actually doing some useful Unicode experiments instead of just jumping on the "Let's all make fun of JMF bandwagon." -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Knapsack Problem Without Value
On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 01:38:47 -0800, geezle86 wrote: > On Friday, December 13, 2013 9:08:56 AM UTC+7, geez...@gmail.com wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I wanna ask about Knapsack. I do understand what Knapsack is about. But >> this one i faced is a different problem. There is no value. I mean, >> it's like this, for example. >> >> I have 4 beams [X0, X1, X2, X3]. Each 1, 2, 2, 3 cm long. I want to >> make a new 6 cm long connected-beam from these 4 beams. I can make it >> from some of these. The output will print: >> >> 1, 2, 3 #(X0, X1, X3) >> >> You understand what my problem is? Can you help me? > > No, this isnt homework. There is a website called Jollybee (Its > available only in Bahasa) Here is the link if you dont believe me > http://jollybee.binus.ac.id/oj/site/problemset/problem/code/HS10F/ > > Im just got bored and trying to have fun. > > Not values like that, i mean, everywhere, I found the pseudocode only > teach me with 2 variable. Mostly weight and its values ($). For short, > this problem I faced is only the weight, no values($). With only one value, I think it counts as a variation of the Change- Making Problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Change-making_problem -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
