Announce: WHIFF 1.1 Release
WHIFF 1.1 RELEASED WHIFF [WSGI HTTP Integrated Filesystem Frames] is a collection of support services for Python/WSGI Web applications which allows applications to be composed by dropping dynamic pages into container directories. This mode of development will be familiar to developers who have created PHP applications, vanilla CGI scripts, Apache/modpy Publisher applications, JSP pages, or static web content. WHIFF 1.1 improves support for Google App Engine applications and fixes a number of bugs/misfeatures regarding string quoting and encoding. PROJECT PAGE: http://whiff.sourceforge.net/ DOCUMENTATION: http://whiffdoc.appspot.com DOWNLOAD: https://sourceforge.net/projects/whiff/ REPOSITORY: http://code.google.com/p/whiff/source/checkout Please read about the features, tutorials, and demos: Test drive http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_0500.TestDrive Mako template support http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1075.MakoGrading Drop down menus middlewares http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1300.menus AJAX callback support http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1400.calc Jquery helpers http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1450.jQueryUI Integration support for repoze.who authentication http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1500.who Open Flash Charts http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1600.openFlashCharts Internationalization support http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1700.international Tree views with AJAX callbacks http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_2200.TreeView Google App Engine compatibility http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_2300.GAEDeploy And much more. Please try it out and let me know what you think. Also, thanks to all for suggestions and other feedback. -- Aaron Watters === This one goes to eleven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pdf download using mechanize
On Jul 6, 10:00 am, srinivasan srinivas sri_anna...@yahoo.co.in wrote: HI, I am using mechanize module for web scraping projects. One of y tasks is to download pdf file from a page and store it. Is there a way to download pdf file using mechanize how we do it in Perl's WWW::Mechanize? Thanks, Srini Mechanize seems to have a mailing list ;c) https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wwwsearch-general Also, it would be helpful to know what specific problems you are having. Have you tried following the excellent documentation? http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/mechanize/doc.html It looks like downloading any sort of file and saving it should be straightforward to me, but I haven't tried it. Aaron Watters http://whiffdoc.appspot.com === % man less less is more. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I wander which is better? JSP or Python? And is there a place for JSP?
On Jun 28, 12:49 am, Roger rogerda...@gmail.com wrote: As I plan to study JSP, I find it extremly complicated and a part of J2EE. I did not attend to get the whole of J2EE. I hope anybody can describe the future of JSP. Is there a place for JSP? I work on a big java project to make money and I like JSP's -- in fact I prefer working with JSPs over working with complicated web infrastructures such as java based RSF/Spring or Python based Zope and Django. You drop a file into a JSP directory and a page that looks similar appears on your web server -- no messing with config files and regular expressions and such. It's very easy to understand, develop, debug. This is why I wrote WHIFF to use a similar but generalized drop in paradigm. http://whiffdoc.appspot.com -- Aaron Watters === % man less less is more. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I strongly dislike Python 3
On Jun 26, 9:06 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: I didn't notice this level of angst when Python made equally significant changes going from 1.5 to 2.0... admittedly Python 1.5 code would work unchanged in 2.0, but the 2.x series introduced MUCH bigger additions to Python than anything 3.0 and 3.1 have added, and anyone taking advantage of those changes is implicitly writing code which is not backwards As a historical note, Python was a lot less pervasive then. Nevertheless there were some subtle but significant breakages in 1--2 which caused a lot of people to throw up their hands and give up. The abandonment of regex comes to mind, and there were others. I personally earned income a couple years ago as a contractor supporting Python 1.x applications which were put into cryogenic preservation when the developers decided to abandon Python in favor of a less chaotic platform, like Java or C# or even (got help us) Perl. I apologize if I pontificate. -- Aaron Watters -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
conceptual model diagram builder
Hi folks. I design a lot of conceptual models and I usually do it on paper or on a white board. I sometimes need to send an image of a conceptual model (not a photo) and I really don't know of a good tool which works the way I'd like to make images of conceptual models. Particularly I'd like the layout to be automatic. So I built a conceptual diagram model builder in Python using WHIFF and released it as a WHIFF demo. It does auto-layout and also allows you to snapshot the model as a JSON structure. Here it is: http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/tests/schema/diagram# I will certainly continue to fiddle with it but I'm pretty pleased with how it works now, so I wanted to share it. More info: * Implemented in WHIFF: whiff.sourceforge.net. * Drawn using HTML 5 2D canvas feature http://dev.w3.org/html5/2dcontext/. * Interactive elements courtesy of jQueryUI http://jqueryui.com/. * Dynamic server/page interactions use AJAX technology. * Data encoding uses JSON http://www.json.org/. * Data modeling conventions adapted from Analysis Patterns: Reusable Object Models by Martin Fowler. * Distributed in the whiff test directory. Browse the source at this link. http://code.google.com/p/whiff/source/browse/#hg/trunk/test/root/schema Let me know what you think. If you want to get the source you will have to clone the google code mercurial archive (it isn't part of the whiff release yet). -- Aaron Watters === This one goes to 11. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: mysql query results to web page
On Jun 22, 4:50 pm, Greg gfi...@gmail.com wrote:
I'd like to query my local MySQL db and send the results to a locally
served web page. I've poked around and found complex examples using
web2py and pylons What's best for beginners? Can somebody lay out
the basic steps for me?
thanks,
Greg
You need to use some sort of web server and some sort
of interface to a web server. Most web servers support
the CGI interface. Here is an example query using a
web server CGI interface and the WSGI/CGI translator.
This is one of many options, but it has the advantage
that you can move to a higher performance approach
later if you need to without changing code.
=== cut, beginning of file
#!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin/python
import sys
import wsgiref.handlers
import MySQLdb
def application(env, start_response):
connection = MySQLdb.connect(host=localhost, user=me,
passwd=xyz, db=mydatabase)
cursor = connection.cursor()
cursor.execute(select * from MY_TABLE)
start_response(200 OK, [('Content-Type', 'text/html')])
for x in cursor.fetchall():
yield str(x)
yield br\n
# serve a CGI request using the application
wsgiref.handlers.CGIHandler().run(application)
=== end of file
Here is a link to the running example I just tested:
http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/mysql.cgi
The first thing you should try is getting the hello world
CGI script running before adding the MySQL query.
I had to make the CGI script executable and have it point
to my Python installation in the first line. Please see
http://docs.python.org/library/cgi.html
for a discussion of CGI scripting. I also had to mess
with some directory permissions because my MySQLdb on my
Mac in inside a Python Egg... to get around these sorts
of problems you may have to look at your server error log.
Also please see the WHIFF quickstart for a discussion
of setting up a WSGI/WHIFF based CGI script.
Good luck!
-- Aaron Watters
===
% man less
less is more.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Announcing: WHIFF 1.0
WHIFF 1.0 RELEASED WHIFF 1.0 is the first stable release of WHIFF intended to be production ready. PROJECT PAGE: http://whiff.sourceforge.net/ DOCUMENTATION: http://whiffdoc.appspot.com DOWNLOAD: https://sourceforge.net/projects/whiff/ REPOSITORY: http://code.google.com/p/whiff/source/checkout WHIFF [WSGI HTTP Integrated Filesystem Frames] is a collection of support services for Python/WSGI Web applications which allows applications to be composed by dropping dynamic pages into container directories. This mode of development will be familiar to developers who have created PHP applications, vanilla CGI scripts, Apache/modpy Publisher applications, JSP pages, or static web content. WHIFF 1.0 adds support for Guarded Resources to implement information access control in web applications. http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_2400.AuthorizedResources In addition to a number of bugfixes and minor enhancements the release also includes from previous releases: Test drive http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_0500.TestDrive Mako template support http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1075.MakoGrading Drop down menus middlewares http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1300.menus AJAX callback support http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1400.calc Jquery helpers http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1450.jQueryUI Integration support for repoze.who authentication http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1500.who Open Flash Charts http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1600.openFlashCharts Internationalization support http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1700.international Tree views with AJAX callbacks http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_2200.TreeView Google App Engine compatibility http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_2300.GAEDeploy And much more. Please try it out and let me know what you think -- Aaron Watters === This one goes to eleven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: CGI templating with python
On Apr 1, 11:19 am, KB ke...@nekotaku.com wrote: Django will probably get you where you want to go the fastest: http://www.djangoproject.com/ In particular, its admin interface will probably automatically generate a usable UI for you without your having to write many templates at all. Robert, Thank you very very much. I had a brief peruse of django last night and it does indeed look like what I am after! Will take me some time :) to delve into it deeper but I wanted to thank you! You could also look at WHIFF and try out the test drive. http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W.intro -- Aaron Watters === This one goes to 11. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
regex object limitations/behavior for large regexes?
I'm thinking of a design which automatically generates regex objects which are essentially disjunctions of simple pattern alternatives. The number of alternatives might conceivably run into the thousands or more. This raises the question: do regex objects behave nicely when the regex gets very large? Do they remain as fast? Do they display reasonable (linear or n log n) memory growth? Do they just stop working at some point? Please reply if you have any experience with very large regexes or other insights. Thanks in advance. -- Aaron Watters === less is more -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: regex object limitations/behavior for large regexes?
Sorry, I should have looked harder. I found this: http://bugs.python.org/issue1160 It looks exactly like my use case. drat. -- Aaron Watters http://whiffdoc.appspot.com === less is more. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Moving from PHP to Python. Is it Possible
Sancar wants to move from PHP to Python.
The following a shameless plug for WHIFF: http://whiff.sourceforge.net
-- I wrote it partially because I wanted PHP-like features using
Python, but better ;).
On Dec 11, 5:26 am, Sancar Saran sancar.sa...@evodot.com wrote:
Greetings.
After 3 days of crawling google, diving in python and cursing, now I can
show
something on my linux/apache/mod_wsgi setup.
It's too bad you didn't find the WHIFF quickstart first :).
http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W0500.quickstart
And i'm struck on something
My design depends on a Global Array. A huge array which store everything about
requested Web page for a final rendering.
In PHP accessing globals is easy. You may do direct access or use class
something like ZEND Registry
1-) Can I create Global (read/write access anywhere from my code) Multi
dimensional, associative array (or hash) and store any kind of variable type.
There are a number of ways to do things like this in WHIFF
-- one way is to use the WSGI environment to store your
globals as illustrated in the Mako tutorial:
http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1075.MakoGrading
2-) Is there any error trigger for mod_wsgi. When something go bad I god
Internal Server error. Looking for error log was't nice. Is there any way to
shows errors in the web page ?
Configure your application to display tracebacks on errors.
I need to explicitly add this to the documentation, but here
is an example used by the WHIFF documentation app config:
59 whiffDocumentation = resolver.moduleRootApplication(/, docroot,
60 #exception_middleware=None,
61 environment=environment,
62 exception_middleware=displayTraceback.__middleware__,
63 on_not_found=None, # show traceback (could comment)
64 auto_reload=False,
65 )
lines 62 and 63 from
http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/whiffRepo.cgi/file/4b2cea3d92fc/doc/servedocs.py
3-) Any documents books sites about helping moving from php to python
http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/ (doesn't explicitly mention PHP).
4-) In php we had something like
ob_start(); // start Output buffering
require('hede.php'); // include phtml similar to psp. mixed language and html
(to avoiding string replacement (or marker based) html templates)
$var = ob_get_clean(); // get rendered output and use anywhere
can find a similar abilities in Python ?
Of course:
See the quoteHtml implementation, for example
http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/whiffRepo.cgi/file/4b2cea3d92fc/whiff/middleware/quoteHtml.py
5-) is there any Python documentation based on examples. When I give up about
to finding php's $_REQUEST or $_SERVER equivalents in python some demo code
in
Twisted docs are much helpful than any other words. Me and my kind already
have problem with English language. Example code much more helpful than full
academic description.
http://whiffdoc.appspot.com (again) there are lots and lots of
examples.
I hope you like it and have a happy new year! -- Aaron Watters
===
my resolution last year
was not to make any resolutions this year.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
wave robot notes
I implemented a Google Wave Robot which annotates BNF syntax rules using railroad diagram images. I put notes about the implementation process here for the benefit of posterity. http://listtree.appspot.com/firstWaveRobot The robot Id is whiff-gae-tutor...@appspot.com -- if you are using wave, please add it to a wave and try it out. It should respond to a BNF rule you type in like this one: program ::= begin (statement ;)+ end $$ Happy Holidays everyone... I'm off to the slopes :). -- Aaron Watters === an apple every 8 hours will keep 3 doctors away --kliban -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: WHIFF.0.7 += GAE + jQueryUI + internationalization + testdrive = (last beta?)
That was a joke in the tree view. You clicked on the science link in the tree hierarchy. I will fix it due to your complaint. Fixed. Now clicking on the same link goes to Scientific American. http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/ Is that humourless enough for you? :) You are now immortalized in the WHIFF repository http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/whiffRepo.cgi/rev/6d8c650102dd Please let me know if anything else offends your sensibilities. Thanks again, -- Aaron Watters === an apple every 8 hours will keep 3 doctors away. -- kliban -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: WHIFF.0.7 += GAE + jQueryUI + internationalization + testdrive = (last beta?)
ANNOUNCING WHIFF [WSGI HTTP Integrated Filesystem Frames] release 0.7 WHIFF INDEX PAGE: http://whiff.sourceforge.net The new release adds many new features, including - Google app engine support with tutorial: http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_2300.GAEDeploy - jQueryUI interactive widget support with tutorial: http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1450.jQueryUI - Internationalization tutorial: http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_1700.international - no install test drive: http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/docs/W1100_0500.TestDrive Also the WHIFF documentation is now hosted on Google App Engine at the http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/ domain. What is WHIFF? WHIFF is a collection of support services for WSGI/Python web applications which allows applications to be composed by dropping dynamic pages into container directories. This mode of development will be familiar to developers who have created PHP applications, vanilla CGI scripts, Apache/modpy Publisher applications, JSP pages, or static web content. The WHIFF implementation significantly generalizes the drop in paradigm to support WSGI middleware components and application fragments as well as stand-alone pages. WHIFF provides other services in addition to supporting drop in components, such as managed application resources. WHIFF requires Python 2.5 or better to run out-of-the-box. Unless significant problems appear in the next month or so I think this release will be the last beta release and the next release will add a couple more features to become WHIFF 1.0. For more fun please have a look at my community list/tree maker at http://listtree.appspot.com which is inspired by Guido van Rossum's excellent faqwiz. ListTree is implemented on Google App Engine using WHIFF. I hope you like. -- Aaron Watters === Talk low. Talk slow. And don't say a lot. -- John Wayne's advice to Clint Eastwood -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: WHIFF.0.7 += GAE + jQueryUI + internationalization + testdrive = (last beta?)
On Dec 9, 1:48 pm, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: Aaron Watters wrote: Also the WHIFF documentation is now hosted on Google App Engine at thehttp://whiffdoc.appspot.com/domain. When I went there and clicked on the scatter chart is generated by a straightforward invocation of the standard WHIFF OpenFlashChart middleware: , Firefox *immediately* opened the 'Official' page of a well-known ugly cultwww.sci-logy.orgin a new tab. Something is very, very wrong. I really hope this was not intentional on your part. When I load the doc page again and click the chart box again, the chart is reloaded from the local cache instead of your site and no tab is opened. tjr That was a joke in the tree view. You clicked on the science link in the tree hierarchy. I will fix it due to your complaint. Nothing is very very wrong :), it was just a misguided joke (the bio link also goes off to someone fisherman's biography...) Sorry about that. Thanks for the feedback. -- Aaron Watters === want a friend? get a dog. -- Truman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: a huge shared read-only data in parallel accesses -- How? multithreading? multiprocessing?
On Dec 9, 9:58 am, Valery khame...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Q: how to organize parallel accesses to a huge common read-only Python data structure? Use a BTree on disk in a file. A good file system will keep most of the pages you need in RAM whenever the data is warm. This works for Python or any other programming language. Generally you can always get to any piece of data in about 4 seeks at most anyway, so if your disk is fast your app will be fast too. The file can be accessed concurrently without problems by any number of processes or threads. -- Aaron Watters http://listtree.appspot.com http://whiffdoc.appspot.com === less is more -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: High-performance Python websites
The key to scaling a web site is to make sure you can load-balance to as many front ends as needed and then use a common database backend that is fast enough or possibly a common file system that is fast enough. I can't speak to Django specifically but you can certainly get essentially unlimited scalability on the front-end side of the equation using a Python based web app. The google app engine will set such a configuration up for you automatically, but they are still working some bugs out with regard to performance, I think, based on my experience here http://whiffdoc.appspot.com/ and here http://listtree.appspot.com/ I hope that helps. -- Aaron Watters === an apple every 8 hours will keep 3 doctors away. -kliban -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python simply not scaleable enough for google?
Because `language is slow' is meaningless. Yes. Everyone knows java is faster than Python right? But look here: http://gaejava.appspot.com/ (you might want to run it a couple times to see what it does when it is 'warm'). I don't think this is a biased test -- I think the author expected to see Java faster. In my runs Python is usually a bit faster on a majority of these metrics consistently. Why? My guess is the reason is that Python is less bloated than Java so more of it can stay resident on a shared machine whereas big hunks of Java have to be swapped in for every access -- but it's just a guess. By the way: I see this all the time -- for web use Python always seems to be faster than Java in my experience. (With programs that I write: I tend to avoid some of the larger Python web tools available out there and code close to the protocol.) Comparing language platforms using small numeric benchmarks often completely misses the point. -- Aaron Watters http://whiffdoc.appspot.com http://listtree.appspot.com === an apple every 8 hours will keep 3 doctors away. - kliban -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python simply not scaleable enough for google?
I don't think Python and Go address the same set of programmer desires. For example, Go has a static type system. Some programmers find static type systems to be useless or undesirable. Others find them extremely helpful and want to use them them. If you're a programmer who wants a static type system, you'll probably prefer Go to Python, and vice versa. That has nothing to do with implementation speed or development expenditures. If Google spent a million dollars adding static types to Python, it wouldn't be Python any more. ... and I still have an issue with the whole Python is slow meme. The reason NASA doesn't build a faster Python is because Python *when augmented with FORTRAN libraries that have been tested and optimized for decades and are worth billions of dollars and don't need to be rewritten* is very fast. The reason they don't replace the Python drivers with Java is because that would be very difficult and just stupid and I'd be willing to bet that when they were done the result would actually be *slower* especially when you consider things like process start-up time. And when someone implements a Mercurial replacement in GO (or C# or Java) which is faster and more useful than Mercurial, I'll be very impressed. Let me know when it happens (but I'm not holding my breath). By the way if it hasn't happened and if he isn't afraid of public speaking someone should invite Matt Mackall to give a Python conference keynote. Or how about Bram Cohen for that matter... -- Aaron Watters http://listtree.appspot.com/ === if you want a friend, get a dog. -Truman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python simply not scaleable enough for google?
On Nov 11, 3:15 pm, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: Robert P. J. Day wrote: I can imagine a day when code compiled from Python is routinely time-competitive with hand-written C. That time is now, in many cases. I still stand by my strategy published in Unix World ages ago: get it working in Python, profile it, optimize it, if you need to do it faster code the inner loops in C. Of course on google app engine, the last step is not possible, but I don't think it is needed for 90% of applications or more. My own favorite app on google app engine/appspot is http://listtree.appspot.com/ implemented using whiff http://whiff.sourceforge.net as described in this tutorial http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_2300.GAEDeploy not as fast as I would like sporadically. But that's certainly not Python's problem because the same application running on my laptop is *much* faster. By the way: the GO language smells like Rob Pike, and I certainly hope it is more successful than Limbo was. Of course, if Google decides to really push it then it's gonna be successful regardless of all other considerations, just like Sun did to Java... -- Aaron Watters === Limbo: how low can you go? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: wsgi with separate css file
RE: serving static CSS files using WSGI ...However, this method is fragile and very inefficient. If you want to eventually deploy this application somewhere, I would suggest starting with a different method. The WHIFF WSGI tools are meant to make this kind of thing easy. In fact the quick start tells you how to do this http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W0500.quickstart And if you want to deploy to the Google App Engine there's a tutorial for that too: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_2300.GAEDeploy For example the http://listtree.appspot.com/ service is implemented using WHIFF under the Google App Engine environment. -- Aaron Watters === TO INFINITY... AND BEYOND! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python library support propaganda lists?
Let me vent my annoyance. In the last couple months on a few occasions I've tried various Python libraries (and I'm not going to name names) and run into some problem. Following the documented procedure I eventually post the problem to the support list trying to politely explain everything, including the admission that it may all be my stupidity causing the problem. Then I'm told automatically that my post will be moderated. Then nothing happens. The post just disappears. No offline reply. Nothing. I don't know why this happens, but if people are using their support forums as propaganda lists for only happy news I consider this a serious violation of the spirit of open source. There is nothing wrong with filtering spam, of course, but silently filtering non-spam, even inane non-spam, is not acceptable. At least there should be an offline RTFM reply to the poster. There, I feel better now. -- Aaron Watters http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_1600.openFlashCharts === If you think you are smart enough to write multi-threaded programs, then you're not.-- Jim Ahlstrom -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python library support propaganda lists?
[note: if this shows up twice, it's because my internet connection flaked out] On Oct 30, 12:23 pm, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote: You almost certainly ran into technical misconfiguration or lazy moderators. It's suspicious, however, when other posts which seem to be from new posters get through in a timely fashion. On Oct 30, 8:53 am, Frank Millman fr...@chagford.com wrote: Question - do you 'subscribe' to the lists first? Yes I do, or at least I try. Sometimes the request to join gets silently moderated into the bit bucket also. Ulrich: I'm not talking about the python.org lists where I've *never* had problems. I'm talking about other lists. I know this may be due to simple laziness and negligence, but in that case they should turn moderation off. I don't want to say where I've had this problem, because I don't want to offend anyone in particular -- I'm just making a general observation. Maybe as Robert suggests I will try comp.lang.python as a fall back after a few days of nonresponsiveness in the future... -- Aaron Watters http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_2200.TreeView === I'm practicing monogamy (but I'm not very good at it yet). -- Steven Tyler -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python library support propaganda lists?
On Oct 30, 12:51 pm, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote: On 2009-10-30 11:31 AM, Aaron Watters wrote: I know this may be due to simple laziness and negligence, but in that case they should turn moderation off. That's the funny thing about mailing list problems. If a misconfiguration means people can't post to your, you don't hear from the people having problems. Try emailing one of the project leaders directly (and politely!) to ask them to check their moderation queue for your post. And check Spamhaus to see if your mail host is on their list! I don't want to say where I've had this problem, because I don't want to offend anyone in particular -- I'm just making a general observation. No, you're not. You're making unsupported accusations of malfeasance. I don't mean to accuse anyone of anything. I just want to note that any manipulation of list content, *if* it ever occurs, is not acceptable (aside from spam filtering). Of course I can never prove anything along these lines and any naming will only result in creating life long enemies, and no benefit to me of any kind. You are right that misconfigurations and incompetence could be confused with mailing list content manipulation. I have tried directly contact the owner too in at least one case that I can think of and received no response -- maybe the fellow was too busy, or sick or dead or something (but still active on the same mailing list, somehow). -- Aaron Watters === He's a humble man, with good reason. - Churchill, on a colleague -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: WHIFF += Mako treeview url rewrites
On Oct 27, 7:04 am, Paul Boddie p...@boddie.org.uk wrote: On 27 Okt, 03:49, Aaron Watters aaron.watt...@gmail.com wrote: WHIFF now includes components for implementing tree views for web navigation panes or other purposes, either using AJAX or frame reloads. Try the GenBank demo at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/GenBankTree/index This looks interesting, but when I have JavaScript switched off, I get a big traceback page which indicates that the application doesn't understand the normal link on each of the nodes of the tree. I imagine that the ideas is to have the application functional with and without JavaScript, which is a worthy objective forgotten by many Web developers these days. Paul That exact application http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/GenBankTree/index cannot be implemented with javascript turned off. You can implement something kinda similar... h These days I would guess you are pretty limited without javascript, no? For example I don't think the instructional support web sites at Rutgers will work properly without js. By the way tracebacks are on for debugging purposes, they can be turned off, of course. -- Aaron Watters === -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: WHIFF += Mako treeview url rewrites
Paul Boddie wrote: On 27 Okt, 03:49, Aaron Watters aaron.watt...@gmail.com wrote: ... http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/GenBankTree/index This looks interesting, but when I have JavaScript switched off, I get a big traceback ... I just tried it. How do you get a traceback? For me none of the javascript links work: they just do nothing. -- Aaron Watters === if you want a friend, get a dog. --Truman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: WHIFF += Mako treeview url rewrites
On Oct 27, 8:02 am, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote: If you need a full traceback, let me know. Well, yes, the bottom of the traceback would be more useful :). -- Aaron Watters -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: WHIFF += Mako treeview url rewrites
On Oct 27, 8:16 am, Aaron Watters aaron.watt...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 27, 8:02 am, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote: If you need a full traceback, let me know. Well, yes, the bottom of the traceback would be more useful :). -- Aaron Watters Alex sent me the traceback (thanks!) and after consulting the logs and the pages I figured out that the version of Firefox in question was not ignoring my javascript links like it should. Instead FF was interpreting them as HTTP links to pages that didn't exist -- which is perfectly idiotic -- so WHIFF was complaining that it couldn't find the page (which is correct). Anyway, you shouldn't see this buglet any more -- if you don't have javascript you will get a nice polite message saying that the page doesn't work unless javascript is enabled. http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/GenBankTree/index I hope you like it again. Thanks for the help! -- Aaron Watters === nobody ever got fired for buying IBM^H^H^HMicrosoft. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web development with Python 3.1
On Oct 27, 10:26 am, Diez B. Roggisch de...@nospam.web.de wrote: ... Yes, in the end of the day, it's all python. For me, in the end of the day, it's all java or PHP. But I'm working on that. For my purposes the frameworks don't really help much. That's why I built WHIFF :). http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_2200.TreeView -- Aaron Watters === If all you got is lemons, make lemonade. -- anon. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: WHIFF += Mako treeview url rewrites
WHIFF 0.6 RELEASED WHIFF += Mako treeview url rewrites WHIFF is a collection of support services for Python/WSGI Web applications which allows applications to be composed by dropping dynamic pages into container directories. This mode of development will be familiar to developers who have created PHP applications, vanilla CGI scripts, Apache/modpy Publisher applications, JSP pages, or static web content. The new WHIFF 0.6 release now includes ** Treeview widgets WHIFF now includes components for implementing tree views for web navigation panes or other purposes, either using AJAX or frame reloads. Try the GenBank demo at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/GenBankTree/index Read more in the tree view tutorial: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_2200.TreeView ** Mako template support New standard middleware provides built in support for using the fast, powerful, elegant, and popular Mako template engine in WHIFF applications. Read more in the Mako tutorial: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_1075.MakoGrading ** Url rewrites The URL rewrite tutorial explains how to implement WHIFF applications using URLs that are shorter and easier to understand. Read it here: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_2050.UrlMapping WHIFF HOME PAGE: http://whiff.sourceforge.net I hope you like it! -- Aaron Watters === less is more. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web development with Python 3.1
On Oct 25, 7:52 pm, Alan Harris-Reid a...@baselinedata.co.uk wrote: I am very much new to Python, and one of my first projects is a simple data-based website. I am starting with Python 3.1 (I can hear many of you shouting don't - start with 2.6), but as far as I can see, none of the popular python-to-web frameworks (Django, CherryPy, web.py, etc.) are Python3 compatible yet. So, what can I use to start my web programming experience using 3.1? Any help would be appreciated. Alan Don't. use python 2.6 with WHIFF :) http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/GenBankTree/index http://whiff.sourceforge.net -- Aaron Watters === It gotta be rock-roll music if you wanna dance with me if you wanna dance with me -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Object Relational Mappers are evil (a meditation)
On Oct 16, 10:35 am, mario ruggier mario.rugg...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 5, 4:25 pm, Aaron Watters aaron.watt...@gmail.com wrote: Occasionally I fantasize about making a non-trivial change to one of these programs, but I strongly resist going further than that because the ORM meatgrinder makes it somewhere between extremely unpleasant and impossible to make any non-trivial changes to a non-trivial program, especially after it has been populated with data. Object-relational mappers are like putting lipstick on a pig:http://gizmoweblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/putting-lipstick-on-pig.html m ;-) Cute, but wrong. Using ORMs is better than using Object databases. In my case I use Python to un data created by java/hibernate. If I was using a java based object database I would be simply stuck. At least if you use an ORM you have a way to access the information without writing a program in the programming language that the ORM was defined in. Anyway, thanks for all the great comments on this thread from all you Sarcopterygii and Haplorrhini out there. -- Aaron Watters http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/GenBankTree/index === SQL is the worst possible data interface language except for all the others. -- Churchill (paraphrased) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Object Relational Mappers are evil (a meditation)
This is a bit off topic except that many Python programmers seem to be allergic to typing SQL. RESOLVED: Using ORMs leads lazy programmers to make bad database designs. It's better to carefully design your database with no invisible means of support and there is no reason to not use SQL directly for this purpose. FOR EXAMPLE: Consider blogging. The most successful blog software is WORDPRESS. Here is the WordPress data model: http://blog.kapish.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/wp_2.7.png Beautiful, isn't it? It was designed by people who thought about what they were doing and did it carefully. Now let's look at the Sakai Blogger tool data model (as reverse engineered by someone who had to fix a bug -- there actually was no data design created by the implementers): confluence.sakaiproject.org/download/attachments/17072138/ entitymodel.pdf How did the above happen? I suspect someone opened up Eclipse and started typing, relying on the Hibernate ORM to handle all the database stuff automagically. The result is a massive headache for people like me. Another one. I routinely open up the mysql prompt and start typing show tables, describe table blah, select * from blah limit 10... trying to figure out WTF Hibernate did with my data. Occasionally I fantasize about making a non-trivial change to one of these programs, but I strongly resist going further than that because the ORM meatgrinder makes it somewhere between extremely unpleasant and impossible to make any non-trivial changes to a non-trivial program, especially after it has been populated with data. Ok I feel a little better now. Maybe I should get back to work... -- Aaron Watters http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_1200.wwiki === It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried. Sir Winston Churchill http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/364.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: is this whiff/wsgi claim true?
regarding http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1000.concepts On Sep 27, 11:12 pm, Дамјан Георгиевски gdam...@gmail.com wrote: mod_wsgi (the apache module) can be configured to automatically run any .wsgi file dropped in a folder just like CGI ... see here http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/ConfigurationDirectives#WSGIScr... Thanks. I think this observation makes a liar of me :(. I'll have to reword the claim. I could split hairs to assert that this is not the same thing, but it's close enough -- Aaron Watters === Speak roughly to your little boy and beat him when he sneezes. He only does it to annoy because he knows it teases. I speak severely to my boy and beat him when he sneezes For he can thoroughly enjoy the pepper when he pleases! -- Lewis Carroll -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
is this whiff/wsgi claim true?
Hi folks. I just modified the WHIFF concepts index page http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1000.concepts To include the following paragraph with a startling and arrogant claim in the final sentence :) Developers build WHIFF applications much like they build static web content, PHP applications, JSP pages, or ASP pages among others -- the developer drops files into a directory, and the files are automatically used to respond to URLs related to the filename. **This intuitive and ubiquitous approach to organizing web components is not automatically supported by other WSGI infrastructures.** [I go on to illustrate the concept with examples...] Is the final sentence true? Are there other WSGI approach which make deploying a dynamic page as easy as putting an HTML file in a static directory? If I'm lying I'd like to correct the statement and my knowledge of what else is out there is faulty and incomplete, so please correct me. Thanks, -- Aaron Watters === less is more -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: is this whiff/wsgi claim true?
regarding http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1000.concepts Michele Simionato writes: To me, it looks like the approach Quixote used long before the coming of WSGI (see http://www.quixote.ca/learn/1 How Quixote Works). This a fair comparison and you could also note similarities with to modpy/publisher and even CGI but none of these are WSGI components or infrastructures whereas WHIFF is both a WSGI component and an infrastructure. So this is not the counterexample I was looking for. -- Aaron Watters === - She turned me into a newt! - A newt? - ...I got better. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a pure Python chart drawing module
On Sep 15, 1:25 pm, John Nagle na...@animats.com wrote: I'm looking for something that can draw simple bar and pie charts in Python. I'm trying to find a Python package, not a wrapper for some C library, as this has to run on both Windows and Linux and version clashes are a problem. http://skimpygimpy.sourceforge.net includes charts and canvases that generate PNG using pure Python. Honestly, they aren't very pretty though :(. Also, if you are looking for web display also take a look at WHIFF Flash charts (using either open flash charts or amcharts) -- these are very pretty. http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_1600.openFlashCharts -- Aaron Watters === Tee front: 80 minutes / 16 positions / no protection back: Rutgers Rugby -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
WHIFF += Open Flash Charts
WHIFF (WSGI HTTP Integrated Filesystem Frames) 0.5 released. [ WHIFF += Open Flash Charts ] The new WHIFF 0.5 release linked from http://whiff.sourceforge.net includes built in support for Open Flash Charts -- see documentation at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_1600.openFlashCharts Its pretty cool, if I do say so myself :). It also includes number of enhancements and bugfixes including a fairly important performance bugfix. What is Open Flash Charts? Open Flash Charts (http://teethgrinder.co.uk/open-flash-chart-2/ ) is an LPGL Flash implementation for a large number of attractive and dynamic graphical charts. These charts may be used to present numeric data on web pages in an attractive, accessible and forceful manner. Available chart types include line, bar, scatter, candle stick, and radar charts. What is WHIFF? WHIFF is a collection of support services for Python WSGI applications which allows applications to be composed by dropping dynamic pages into container directories. This mode of development will be familiar to developers who have created PHP applications, vanilla CGI scripts, Apache/modpy Publisher applications, JSP pages, or static web content. It is distributed under a BSD style open source license. The WHIFF implementation significantly generalizes the drop in paradigm to support WSGI middleware components and application fragments as well as stand-alone pages. WHIFF provides other services in addition to supporting drop in components, such as managed application resources. I created WHIFF to address complexity issues I encounter when creating and fixing sophisticated Web applications which include complex database interactions and dynamic features such as AJAX (Asynchronous Javascript And XML). Project home page: http://whiff.sourceforge.net . Documentation index: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W.intro . I hope you like it! -- Aaron Watters === an apple every 8 hours will keep 3 doctors away -- kliban -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Data visualization in Python
On Aug 17, 3:10 pm, kj no.em...@please.post wrote: I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing scientific/statistical data. (FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is Mac OS X). Please take a look at the amcharts embedding in WHIFF http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/amcharts/doc WHIFF is a collection of support services for WSGI applications which allows applications to be composed by dropping dynamic pages into container directories. http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W.intro thanks, -- Aaron Watters === Sisyphus got ripped. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
off topic: google groups sucks?
Just a note. It seems that google groups is increasing the sucks coefficient. I search for things using group search for comp.lang.python and I get no results even though I know there are results from a few months or weeks ago. What is the best alternative for this kind of trawling? gmane? With all the smart people working at google how can they up like this? Inquiring minds want to know. -- Aaron Watters === Sisyphus got ripped. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: off topic: google groups sucks?
On Aug 17, 10:05 am, Aaron Watters aaron.watt...@gmail.com wrote: Just a note. It seems that google groups is increasing the sucks coefficient. I'm having better luck now using the advanced search option with queries like gadfly group:comp.lang.python which become http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=gadfly+group:comp.lang.python The search this group feature still needs fixing, however. -- Aaron Watters === if you lined up all economists end to end they'd still point in different directions. -- stolen from somewhere -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: off topic: google groups sucks?
On Aug 17, 1:44 pm, John Yeung gallium.arsen...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Aaron, for confirming that it's not just me! yea, unfortunately this kind of thing happens in monopolies that have no viable competition anymore... Sometimes I begin to suspect that I'm seeing the results that I should want rather than the results I want. (Lucene has this property too -- you get the results bthe algorithm/b wants you to get, rather than the results you want to get.) -- Aaron Watters === In communism the future is certain, but the past is ever changing. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
WHIFF 0.4 += repoze.who authentication + menus + calculator + docs.
WHIFF (WSGI HTTP Integrated Filesystem Frames) 0.4 released. The new WHIFF 0.4 release linked from http://whiff.sourceforge.net includes the following enhancements: Built in support for repoze.who based authentication (from http://static.repoze.org/whodocs/ ) + tutorial see: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_1500.who . AJAX calculator demo and tutorial: see: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_1400.calc . Built in drop-down menu support and tutorial: see: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100_1300.menus . Some subtle but important bug fixes, including a thread race condition bug fix. Auto-reload support. Also documentation improvements: particularly for standard middleware see: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1200_1400.stdMiddleware What is WHIFF? WHIFF is a collection of support services for Python WSGI applications which allows applications to be composed by dropping dynamic pages into container directories. This mode of development will be familiar to developers who have created PHP applications, vanilla CGI scripts, Apache/modpy Publisher applications, JSP pages, or static web content. The WHIFF implementation significantly generalizes the drop in paradigm to support WSGI middleware components and application fragments as well as stand-alone pages. WHIFF provides other services in addition to supporting drop in components, such as managed application resources. I created WHIFF to address complexity issues I encounter when creating and fixing sophisticated Web applications which include complex database interactions and dynamic features such as AJAX (Asynchronous Javascript And XML). Project home page: http://whiff.sourceforge.net . Documentation index: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W.intro . I hope you like it! -- Aaron Watters === % ping elvis elvis is alive -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Good books in computer science?
On Jun 14, 4:47 pm, dads wayne.dads.b...@gmail.com wrote: I'm wanting to purchase some of the titles that have been raised in this thread. When I look they are very expensive books which is understandable. Do you think getting earlier editions that are cheaper is a daft thing or should I fork out the extra £10-£30 to get the latest edition? This is the best book ever written on computer science and the first edition is free. http://www.math.upenn.edu/~wilf/AlgComp3.html -- Aaron Watters http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/amcharts/doc === less is more. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: WHIFF += Flash chart widget support (Aaron Watters)
Regarding: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/amcharts/doc On Jun 12, 3:07 am, oyster lepto.pyt...@gmail.com wrote: nice the only pity is that amcharts is not a money-free product It is if you don't mind the little link in the corner. (which I think is only fair). I found a totally free one that looked pretty good too, which I may add sometime. http://teethgrinder.co.uk/open-flash-chart/ -- Aaron Watters === an apple every 8 hours will keep 3 doctors away. -- kliban -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: WHIFF += Flash chart widget support
WHIFF.0.3 adds amChart Flash based Charts. The amChart chart widgets [ http://www.amcharts.com ] provide a sophisticated methodology for creating beautiful and interactive statistical charts using Adobe Flash plug-in technology. The WHIFF.0.3 release adds extensive support for embedding amCharts charts in web pages under the ./demo/amcharts demo directory area. Please look at chart examples explained in the documentation at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/amcharts/doc Also please try out the disk usage analysis pie chart drill down demo at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/amcharts/diskUsage Below is more information about WHIFF: === WHIFF -- WSGI/HTTP INTEGRATED FILESYSTEM FRAMES WHIFF is an infrastructure for easily building complex Python/WSGI Web applications by combining smaller and simpler WSGI components organized within file system trees. To DOWNLOAD WHIFF go to the WHIFF project information page at http://sourceforge.net/projects/whiff and follow the download instructions. To GET THE LATEST WHIFF clone the WHIFF Mercurial repository located at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/whiffRepo.cgi. To READ ABOUT WHIFF view the WHIFF documentation at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W.intro. To PLAY WITH WHIFF try the demos listed in the demos page at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1300.testAndDemo. Why WHIFF? == WHIFF (WSGI HTTP Integrated Filesystem Frames) is intended to make it easier to create, deploy, and maintain large and complex Python based WSGI Web applications. I created WHIFF to address complexity issues I encounter when creating and fixing sophisticated Web applications which include complex database interactions and dynamic features such as AJAX (Asynchronous JavaScript and XML). The primary tools which reduce complexity are an infrastructure for managing web application name spaces, a configuration template language for wiring named components into an application, and an applications programmer interface for accessing named components from Python and javascript modules. All supporting conventions and tools offered by WHIFF are optional. WHIFF is designed to work well with other modules conformant to the WSGI (Web Service Gateway Interface) standard. Developers and designers are free to use those WHIFF tools that work for them and ignore or replace the others. WHIFF does not provide a packaged cake mix for baking a web application. Instead WHIFF is designed to provide a set of ingredients which can be easily combined to make web applications (with no need to refine your own sugar or mill your own wheat). I hope you like it. -- Aaron Watters === less is more -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: free chart lib for Python?
On May 7, 10:27 pm, oyster lepto.pyt...@gmail.com wrote: I mean chart, not plot. If you don't know the difference, you can checkwww.advsofteng.com, which is a commercial program is there such a thing with many kinds ofchart, i.e. pie-chart, line-chart, ..? A long time ago, I programmed a rmchart interface, however rmchart is windows only, andwww.rmchart.comdisappeared now See you I'm about to announce WHIFF/amChart after some more testing. WHIFF/amCharts generates highly sophisticated interactive charts using Adobe/Flash plug-in applets. Documentation here: http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/amcharts/doc You can get it from the WHIFF mercurial repository for now. http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/whiffRepo.cgi I will upload a tarball to http://whiff.sourceforge.net soonish. Thanks in advance for any comments. -- Aaron Watters === I want to achieve immortality by not dieing. -- Woody Allen -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Ann: Nucular full text search 0.5 +boolean queries +unicode fixes
Announcing Nucular 0.5 This release adds streamlined interfaces for boolean queries. Search for dogs or cats but not smelly like this: dicts = session.dictionaries((dogs|cats) ~smelly) Also included are some other features and bug fixes, including some unicode handling bugfixes. HOME: http://nucular.sourceforge.net/ BOOLEAN QUERIES: http://nucular.sourceforge.net/Boolean.html About Nucular: Nucular is a system for creating full text indices for fielded data. It can be accessed via a Python API or via a suite of command line interfaces. Nucular archives fielded documents and retrieves them based on field value, field prefix, field word prefix, or full text word prefix, word proximity or combinations of these. Nucular also includes features for determining values related to a query often called query facets. Features Nucular is very light weight. Updates and accesses do not require any server process or other system support such as shared memory locking. Nucular supports concurrency. Arbitrary concurrent updates and accesses by multiple processes or threads are supported, with no possible locking issues. Nucular is pure Python. Nucular indexes and retrieves data quickly. Nucular has a funny name. More information about Nucular including links to documentation, and releases is available at http://nucular.sourceforge.net Thanks: Rene Maurer and Matt Chaput and others for comments, suggestions, patches. -- Aaron Watters === an apple every 8 hours will keep 3 doctors away. -- kliban -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: a metacomment on feedback comments
Regarding feedback about WHIFF -- WSGI/HTTP Integrated Filesystems Frames On Apr 23, 3:43 pm, Aaron Watters aaron.watt...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 23, 11:54 am, Johannes Bauer dfnsonfsdu...@gmx.de wrote: To sum it up, I think it's a neat idea, but it's not really intuitive. After being quite startled at first it got better after I read the why it's cool page. Thanks for taking the time to check it out and comment, Johannes. I think you bring up a very good point -- some of directive names are confusing. In retrospect the names were more than confusing. They were simply awful. Thanks to Johannes, Drew and others I decided to rename the directives: use-url becomes include, use-section becomes use, bind-section becomes reuse, bind-url becomes use-include, section becomes using, parameter becomes require These names are much less stupid (except for use-include, but I couldn't come up with anything better...). Thanks Johannes and Drew! There is a new release with the new directive names linked from http://whiff.sourceforge.net (What was I thinking?) -- Aaron Watters === KIDS MAKE NUTRITIOUS SNACKS (A real life newspaper headline) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
OT: a metacomment on feedback comments
I just noticed this on my documentation page. http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W.intro This is quite possible the most confusing web framework ever. It really deserves some kind of award in a special category. This was posted just after someone on the same computer (somewhere in Texas) tried and failed to inject some javascript into the page using a comment. I don't see how this comment is helpful to me or anyone reading the page. How the framework confusing? Why should other readers dismiss the project? Can the documentation or implementation be improved, or is the whole thing beyond repair and if so how or why? Why do people bother to write comments like this one? Is there a link somewhere I can point to to help people write useful or constructive comments? BTW: I just added support for several Mootools javascript widgets and the FCK wisiwig editor, checked in to the repository and demoed in the documentation, but not tarred up in a release yet. At least I'm having fun with it! -- Aaron Watters http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1500.whyIsWhiffCool === ban dhmo! http://www.dhmo.org/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: a metacomment on feedback comments
On Apr 23, 11:54 am, Johannes Bauer dfnsonfsdu...@gmx.de wrote: To sum it up, I think it's a neat idea, but it's not really intuitive. After being quite startled at first it got better after I read the why it's cool page. Thanks for taking the time to check it out and comment, Johannes. I think you bring up a very good point -- some of directive names are confusing. I will think on renaming them and I'd love suggestions. For those who may be interested please see the comments at the bottom of http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1200_1200.config_template for my initial thoughts inspired by J.B's comments. [BTW: I had to back out a handful of mootools coolnesses because they broke in horrible ways under IE8 -- I apologize if you saw a blank page or any other weirdness.] Thanks again! -- Aaron Watters http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1500.whyIsWhiffCool === How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice! Practice! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Too early implementation
On Apr 18, 7:48 am, Filip Gruszczyński grusz...@gmail.com wrote: So, do you know some good methods to prevent myself from just starting coding (which I like very much) and do some thinking about the problem (which I like a little less ;-))? There are a lot of ideas, some you've seen earlier in this thread. Below is a sketch of the approach I prefer. 1) Know exactly what problem you are trying to solve. Describe the problem to the client and make sure the client agrees with your definition. 2) Code up the solution in the simplist possible way. (Document the strategy with an architectural outline, maybe). 3) Write tests to exercise/debug the code and make sure you solved the problem. Also demo the prototype to the client and make sure the client agrees you solved the problem. Usually at this point the first time through you realize that you didn't solve the problem, or didn't solve the right problem, so you should start over at (1) ideally making use of the bad implementation you have for reference only (except for parts which can be included without modification). [Thank yourself you didn't try to optimize your wrong solution and that you implemented it in the simplist possible way.] If you did solve the right problem then... (4) Okay, now you solved the problem. Do you need to optimize anything? If so, optimize, using the test cases to make sure your optimizations don't break anything. If not, you are done: don't optimize anything. (5) Now document your APIs, and other interfaces. (Ahem). For example WHIFF http://whiff.sourceforge.net is a descendant of a lot of libraries and tools I've written to help me and people I've worked with build web sites over the years. It's been some months but I think I started/restarted 3 times before I was happy with the basic approach and could move forward past step (3). -- Aaron Watters http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1500.whyIsWhiffCool === Software time estimation rule: How long could it possibly take? Double that. Switch to the next higher time units (days..weeks etc) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: WHIFF - was: Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
On Apr 15, 4:35 pm, Gerhard Häring g...@ghaering.de wrote: WTF?! This is weird stuff! Why the hell would I use this instead of a Python web framework like Django/Pylons/etc. Ok folks. I've added a page: Whiff is cool because: How do you make a page like this using another package? http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1500.whyIsWhiffCool This doesn't compare WHIFF to Django/Pylons/etc except to make the unsubstantiated claim that you can't do the stuff demonstrated on the page as easily using any other package. The claim may be wrong, but not to my knowledge. I'm looking forward to learning otherwise. Please don't be too harsh. -- Thanks, Aaron Watters === If all the economists in the world were placed end to end they'd still point in different directions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
On Apr 15, 3:49 am, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote: There are plenty of python web frameworks, some have quite different approaches, what suits you will depend very much on your own bias, interest. I've had a lot of luck with WHIFF ( http://whiff.sourceforge.net ) Of course I wrote it and just released it publicly recently. I'm a bit disappointed because I know a lot of people have looked at the docs and demos and there have been a number of downloads, but I haven't gotten one comment yet :( zilch nada. (There is one comment attached to one of the docs, but that was me testing the comments feature :) ). Back in the old days you could at least count on someone yelling at you about how your design was such a bad idea -- Aaron Watters === HELP! HELP! I'M BEING REPRESSED! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: WHIFF - was: Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
You should perhaps contrast WHIFF with the other offerings for creating web applications. -- Gerhard You're right. Thanks for visiting! I'll have to think. Basically I don't want something which takes over the controls. I'll have to think about a better way to explain what I mean. -- Aaron Watters ( http://whiff.sourceforge.net ) === Sisyphus got ripped. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: HTML Conversion in python
On Apr 13, 1:47 am, venutaurus...@gmail.com
venutaurus...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello All,
Is there any library defined in Python which can convert a
given text file into a html page. Basically, I require functions for
creating tables or filling background colours for the html pages etc
instead of writing each and every tag in my script..
Thank you,
Venu Madhav.
At the risk of being annoying, I just announced
a suite of tools that includes a methodology for
building complex pages by combining simple page fragments.
Please have a look at the tutorial
http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1100.tutorial
This is the configuration source for the tutorial page
{{use-url comments}}
{{section title}} Tutorial {{/section}}
{{section summary}}
Walking through some examples will help you learn
the organization and capabilities of the whiff
package.
{{/section}}
{{section body}}
These tutorials hope to introduce WHIFF by discussing a number
of use cases, beginning with simple ones and progressing to
examples
with greater complexity.
p
(UNDER CONSTRUCTION)
{{/section}}
{{/use-url}}
The page generated from this source is much
more complex than that (take a look). The
comments URL points to another WHIFF template
which defines the scaffolding for all WHIFF
documentation pages. The comments page in turn
uses other fragments and scaffoldings...
There are many other
HTML generation approaches as indicated by the
Wiki link previously. As far as I
know the WHIFF approach is the most compositional.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks, -- Aaron Watters
===
'To join the Guild I had to kill somebody,
cruelly, with no mercy, and without reason
-- so I killed the dwarf, because she was
really annoying anyway.'
-- World of Warfare talk, overheard.
--
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Ann: WHIFF -- WSGI/HTTP INTEGRATED FILESYSTEM FRAMES
announcing: WHIFF -- WSGI/HTTP INTEGRATED FILESYSTEM FRAMES WHIFF is an infrastructure for easily building complex Python/WSGI Web applications by combining smaller and simpler WSGI components organized within file system trees. To read about WHIFF view the WHIFF documentation at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W.intro. To PLAY WITH WHIFF try the demos listed in the demos page at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1300.testAndDemo. To DOWNLOAD WHIFF go to the WHIFF project information page at http://sourceforge.net/projects/whiff and follow the download instructions. To get the latest clone the WHIFF Mercurial repository located at http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/whiffRepo.cgi. Why WHIFF? == WHIFF (WSGI HTTP Integrated Filesystem Frames) is intended to make it easier to create, deploy, and maintain large and complex Python based WSGI Web applications. I created WHIFF to address complexity issues I encounter when creating and fixing sophisticated Web applications which include complex database interactions and dynamic features such as AJAX (Asynchronous JavaScript and XML). The primary tools which reduce complexity are an infrastructure for managing web application name spaces, a configuration template language for wiring named components into an application, and an applications programmer interface for accessing named components from Python and javascript modules. All supporting conventions and tools offered by WHIFF are optional. WHIFF is designed to work well with other modules conformant to the WSGI (Web Service Gateway Interface) standard. Developers and designers are free to use those WHIFF tools that work for them and ignore or replace the others. WHIFF does not provide a packaged cake mix for baking a web application. Instead WHIFF is designed to provide a set of ingredients which can be easily combined to make web applications (with no need to refine your own sugar or mill your own wheat). I hope you like it. -- Aaron Watters === Why is a giraffe's neck so long? Because its head is so far from its body! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Data Model:
On Apr 12, 10:14 pm, Anthony alantho...@gmail.com wrote: I'm struggling on whether or not to implement GroupItem (below) with two separate models, or with one model that has a distinguishing key: Given: class ParentGroup: a group of values represented by class GroupItem class ChildGroup: a group of values represented by class GroupItem foreign-key to ParentGroup (many Children sum to one Parent) Option A: class GroupItem: foreign-key to ParentGroup foreign-key to ChildGroup GroupItemType in (ParentItem, ChildItem) value value-type Option B: class ParentGroupItem foreign-key to ParentGroup value value-type class ChildGroupItem foreign-key to ChildGroup value value-type What are my considerations when making this decision? Thanks! It looks to me that the two designs might be useful for different purposes. What are you trying to do? -- Aaron Watters whiff.sourceforge.net http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/root/misc/erdTest -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: Nucular full text indexing 0.4
ANNOUNCING NUCULAR 0.4 == This release adds a simple table space wrapper which makes Nucular easier to use for some purposes. It also fixes a number of bugs. WHERE IS IT? Find documentation and downloads at http://nucular.sourceforge.net/ WHAT IS IT? Nucular is a system for creating full text indices for fielded data. It can be accessed via a Python API or via a suite of command line interfaces. Nucular archives fielded documents and retrieves them based on field value, field prefix, field word prefix, or full text word prefix, word proximity or combinations of these. Nucular also includes features for determining values related to a query often called query facets. FEATURES * Nucular is very light weight. Updates and accesses do not require any server process or other system support such as shared memory locking. * Nucular supports concurrency. Arbitrary concurrent updates and accesses by multiple processes or threads are supported, with no possible locking issues. * Nucular indexes and retrieves data quickly. * Nucular has a funny name. NOTES The file storage format for this release is not compatible with older formats (the change was needed to fix a bug). On Windows XP I had to delete the old package manually from the Python library before the install for the new package would work properly. I hope you like it. -- Aaron Watters === Fear has several advantages over gratitude. Gratitude is intrinsically limited, if only by the finite creative capacity of the scientific community. Moreover, as pointed out by a colleague at MIT, appealing to people’s gratitude and trust is usually less effective than pulling a gun. -- Richard Lindzen -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: search speed
On Jan 30, 3:49 am, Diez B. Roggisch de...@nospam.web.de wrote: alex23 gave you a set of tools that you can use for full-text-search. However, that's not necessarily the best thing to do if things have a record-like structure. In Nucular (and others I think) you can do searches for terms anywhere (full text) searches for terms within fields, searches for prefixes in fields, searches based on field inequality, or searches for field exact value. I would argue this subsumes the standard fielded approach. -- Aaron Watters === Oh, I'm a lumberjack and I'm O.K... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Project structure - Best practices
On Nov 30, 11:55 am, Filip Gruszczyński [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://jcalderone.livejournal.com/39794.html That's exactly what I have read before posting here ;-) -- Filip Gruszczyński I too would like to see a meatier discussion of best practices for python packagizing. I particularly object to jcalderone's suggestion that all tests should be within the package. Often my test cases are 100 times the size of the code, if you include sample data -- it doesn't make sense to install it, I think. Lately I tend to have something like root/ setup.py README.txt packagename/ main source modules submodules... test/ test code and submodules doc/ scripts/ testdata/ demos/ etcetera... I have no real idea if this is a good way to do it, but it works for me in isolation. I'm completely confused about any implications related to integrated system testing or easyinstall... Wise, pragmatic advice would be appreciated. (But if we could avoid the buzzillion directories approach prevalent in the java alternative universe, that would be nice.) -- Aaron Watters === Now we see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: marshal.dumps quadratic growth and marshal.dump not allowing file-like objects
Anywaymarshalshould not be used by user code to serialize objects. It's only meant for Python byte code. Please use the pickle/cPickle module instead. Christian Just for yucks let me point out that marshal has no real security concerns of interest to the non-paranoid, whereas pickle is a security disaster waiting to happen unless you are extremely cautious... yet again. Sorry, I know a even a monkey learns after 3 times... -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=disaster -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: STL multimap
I'm having trouble following your discussion and I suspect you might be a friend of Mark V Cheney. But I will focus on this one point. On May 5, 11:14 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If recursive generators are really useless (erect wall might not be), I would like to have recursive generators -- for example to be able to traverse a tree and yield the value at every node. Right now to do this you need to build a chain of generators from each leaf to the root of the tree (or avoid recursion by managing your own stack of nodes). Every yield must bubble up the tree. With stackless Python you create the equivalent of a recursive generator by using channels -- and you can do a lot of other cool stuff with channels too. The yield (which doesn't even require a special keyword ;) ) goes directly to the other endpoint of the channel, with no bubbling. It's too bad the Python that comes installed on Macs doesn't support channels :(. I know I didn't address your question or comments... -- Aaron Watters http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=ifdef+stackless -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: STL multimap
Hi there. Maybe a little more context would
help us figure out what you want here...
On May 5, 1:28 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is multimap just a syntax-checked dictionary of mutable sequences?
I think the equivalent of a multimap can be
implemented several different ways, depending on
what you need:
for
1 maps to 2,3
5 maps to 7
- dictionary mapping to lists
{ 1:[2,3], 5:[7] } # supports unhashable values
- dictionary mapping to dictionary
{ 1:{2:None,3:None}, 4:{7:None} } # faster for certain lookups
and dense data
- dictionary with tuple/pairs as keys
{ (1,2):None, (1,3):None, (4,7):None } # streamlined for
existence testing
If you search usenet (google groups) for multimap
you will find some nice discussions by Alex Martelli and others.
Is def( a ): a[:]= [x] a trick or part of the language? It looks
pretty sharp in variable-width.
You lost me here.
python 2.6:
def (a): a[:]=[x]
File stdin, line 1
def (a): a[:]=[x]
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
All the best. -- Aaron Watters
===
http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=gaping+security+hole
--
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Re: Cookie Confusion - How to Set a Cookie
On May 1, 9:02 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 29, 3:35 pm, Aaron Watters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the code, Aaron. I will give it a try. I've been reading some more about cookielib and am not sure whether I should use Cookie or cookielib. This is what I want to do: a user is going to login. Upon a successful login, I want to write their name and date/time of visit to a cookie file. Which is the correct python module to use? Cookie does parsing and generation of cookie strings for server-side applications like your CGI script. The cookielib module is designed for either implementing a client like a web browser or emulating a client/browser (for web scraping, for example). I think you want to use Cookie. The distinction could be made clearer in the docs, imho. Also, when you say write the cookie file I think you mean store the cookie to the client browser. This should happen automatically when you send the cookie header to the client correctly (if the client is configured to cooperate). -- Aaron Watters ===http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=default+does+n... Sorry for the slow replies. I've been in out with a sick child. I'm used to my javascript cookies. They are automatically written to a cookie.txt file in a .mozilla dir under my user. When I say to 'write the cookie file' this is what I was referring to. I was expecting my python cookie to automatically get written to the same file. I have't seen this happen yet. Hmmm. I don't know how cookies are stored on the client. I recommend using the standard cgi debug environment dump after setting a cookie to see if the cookie is coming back to the server. If it is not something is wrong -- you are setting it incorrectly, or the server or client is blocking the cookie. Note if you are testing on one machine: some browsers and servers have by default special security restrictions on localhost loopbacks -- it may be that this is causing either the server or the client to ignore the cookie. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=cooked -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why is None = 0
On Apr 25, 8:17 pm, Jon Ribbens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2008-04-25, Martin v. Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: None is smaller than anything. According to Tim Peters, this is not true. See http://bugs.python.org/issue1673405 This is unfortunate. I would advocate something like ordering incomparable objects by the name of their type or something similar. When building indexing structures it can be very nice to be able to construct a list of heterogeneous tuples and sort them without getting an exception. Implementing this using L.sort(cmp) where cmp is implemented in Python can result in a significant speed penalty. What's up with Tim Peters anyway? I haven't seen much from him for a while. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=quote+tim+peters -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: best way to host a membership site
We're about to start a couple somewhat similar projects here, and while our chief engineer is a definitive Ruby/Rails addict, we finally settled on Django. While it's not my own personal favorite Python MVC framework, it's still a very good one, and probably the more mature and stable so far. wrt/ the add more apps in the future concern, you may want to read this:http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2007/nov/29/django-blog/ Interesting link. Django does seem to be a well designed modular approach -- and I think if it had existed back in '97 the history of web development would have been much different. I can't help feeling that it would be nice to have a collection of tools that was even more orthogonal and flexible, and WSGI seems to possibly offer a nice base platform for constructing tools like these. Also I think it remains devilishly difficult to implement ajaxy functionalities like smart data pickers, in-form validation, partial form saving, chatty interfaces etc. What are some good paradigms or methodologies or ideas out there that the Python community should steal? :) warning: It's very possible that my understanding of Django is not deep enough and that the answer is Django. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=you+may+cheat -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: best way to host a membership site
On Apr 30, 10:43 am, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven [EMAIL PROTECTED] nomine.org wrote: Werkzeug -http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/ Wow. An initial glance looks great! I need help with pronunciation, though :(. (also, I'm a little disappointed because I made some notes that looked a little like this...) -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=slip+nibble -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tremendous slowdown due to garbage collection
I do not argue that Python's default GC parameters must change -- only that applications with lots of objects may want to consider a reconfiguration. I would argue that changing the GC to some sort of adaptive strategy should at least be investigated. Having an app which doesn't need gc spending most of its time doing gc is annoying, to say the least. Of course any such change should be tested and analysed thoroughly before it goes into Python 2.6.1 or whatever and it would be great if there were several alternatives considered and compared. Hmmm. I think this would make an excellent computer science Master's Thesis topic. Anybody looking for a topic? -- Aaron Watters http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=use+while+fresh -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: simple chemistry in python
On Apr 29, 8:41 am, baoilleach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This file is part of the Blue Obelisk Data Repository, an effort by several chemistry software developers to share common information This ref is incredibly cool. Is there a guide or meta-index for similar open scientific data repositories (not web search forms: downloadable complete data)? -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=valence -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cookie Confusion - How to Set a Cookie
Thanks for the code, Aaron. I will give it a try. I've been reading some more about cookielib and am not sure whether I should use Cookie or cookielib. This is what I want to do: a user is going to login. Upon a successful login, I want to write their name and date/time of visit to a cookie file. Which is the correct python module to use? Cookie does parsing and generation of cookie strings for server-side applications like your CGI script. The cookielib module is designed for either implementing a client like a web browser or emulating a client/browser (for web scraping, for example). I think you want to use Cookie. The distinction could be made clearer in the docs, imho. Also, when you say write the cookie file I think you mean store the cookie to the client browser. This should happen automatically when you send the cookie header to the client correctly (if the client is configured to cooperate). -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=default+does+nothing -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cookie Confusion - How to Set a Cookie
On Apr 28, 9:42 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I see the cookie in my HTTP header
but do not get anything in the cookie text file. I'm working on
linux.
print Content-type: text/html
cookie = Cookie.SimpleCookie()
cookie['Test'] = 'abc'
print cookie
print
Are there rules about where in the header the set cookie line should
be?
Hi Christian. I think the cookie can go anywhere in
the header, but I usually put it before the content-type.
If you want to store the cookie to a file,
or even better, to a database of some sort, you have to
do it yourself, the Cookie module doesn't do it for you,
I hope.
# store cookie to /tmp/cookie.txt
file(/tmp/cookie.txt,w).write(str(cookie))
For parsing cookies, I stole and modified this from
the Django source (for use in a cgi script):
===
from Cookie import SimpleCookie
import os
# stolen and modified from Django
def parse_cookie(cookie=None, environ=None):
if cookie is None:
if environ is None:
environ = os.environ
cookie = environ.get('HTTP_COOKIE', '')
if cookie == '':
return {}
c = SimpleCookie()
c.load(cookie)
cookiedict = {}
for key in c.keys():
cookiedict[key] = c.get(key).value
return cookiedict
===
All the best. -- Aaron Watters
===
http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=monster
--
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Re: py3k concerns. An example
shame 1 a. a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety 2 a condition of humiliating disgrace or disrepute Sigh. This is stupid (in the usual usage), but I must reply because I can't control myself. I meant usage 5: something regrettable, unfortunate, or outrageous: it's a shame that he wasn't told. -- http://www.yourdictionary.com/shame I think outrageous is appropriate here because I think it's outrageous to change the basic usage for things like dictionary.keys() when it would be so easy to leave the old definition and add a new method like dictionary.keySet(). This would save me personally a great deal of painful tedium, I suspect (especially considering that I've implemented a lot of dictionary-like objects -- so I'll have to change the way their keys method works -- or something -- I haven't figured it out yet...). I know that the designers of Python are motivated by a desire to attain a Platonic ideal of aesthetic perfection primarily with a weaker desire to make lives easy for people writing libraries and tools somewhere further down the list, but from my perspective it's a shame^H^H^H^H^H regretable and unfortunate that the aesthetics so often trumps other considerations. In C# and java, for example, this sort of issue has never been a problem in my experience: stuff I wrote many versions ago still works just fine with no changes (but please note that I don't write gui stuff, which is less stable -- I'm speaking of algorithmic and system libraries). -- Aaron Watters === btw: usage (5) for shame in the python source: http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FocusId=463FREETEXT=shame -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k concerns. An example
On Apr 27, 9:18 pm, Martin v. Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An existing application of an existing dict-like object will continue to work just fine in Python 3, right? Unless I mix my psuedodicts with standard dicts in the same list, for example, or pass them to functions intended to accept any dict-like object, including the especially important case of standard dicts. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong about this being a much of problem. 20+ years experience warns me strongly to be very afraid, however. It would be great if I didn't have to think about it. Can anyone recommend a good book on Ruby :)? -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=unnecessary+breakage -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k concerns. An example
On Apr 24, 10:10 am, Paul McGuire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote end point applications (I consider maintaining 2 branches to be in the not working category), but it does NOT WORK for people who maintain modules for other people to use, because those people may be on a range of Python versions that extend beyond 2.6-3.0. So if I upgrade my module to 2.6, those running on earlier versions can no longer use it. At some point in the future, I'll probably be able to say no more support for pre-2.6, but it is a bit early to start saying that now. In my view using a conversion tool on an ongoing basis is not an option. It just adds a dependancy. What happens when the conversion tool is upgraded in a non-backwards-compatible way? Or do we have assurance that it won't be ;)? Will changes to the converter mean that the users of my converted libraries have to start using my tools in a different way? Even if it breaks some users in a very subtle way it's not acceptible. I have no interest in adding additional dependancies, with an additional degree of freedom to break. This is all made worse because it's binary -- with upgrades to C or C# you usually had the option of cross linking between old style components and new style components (and at least with C these could usually be made to work) and you could port the older stuff with care. With py 3.0 and python 2.6 *everything* either works with the interpreter or none of it does. (Don't ask my users to install two interpreters: they'll just give up and use something else.) So if I want to support both I have to do everything twice in the expected case and in the best case test everything twice, at the same time, if I want to support both versions and keep features in sync. This is of course assuming that all the supporting libraries do the same thing. If they don't and one of the libraries doesn't support 2.* and another doesn't support 3.*... I guess I'm just screwed. I still think it's a shame, and I think it's different in kind from python 1.x-2.x. 2.x broke very little as I recall. Most 1.x code just worked in 2.x and most of the rest required very minor change. I think this is not the case for 2.x-3.x. -- Aaron (Scummy) Watters, hoping to shut up now. ps: I didn't notice that % was vanishing later (3.3). that's a bit better (whew ;) ). pps: I have to note that it would be nice if the ad-hominem (sp?) invective would drop out of these threads -- it doesn't add a lot, I think. === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=garbage+left+over -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
On Apr 17, 12:27 pm, Michael Torrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the big deal? The big deal is that I would love to see Django become the standard platform for web development, for example. That will be much less likely if 60% of the contributed tools for Django don't work for Python 3000 and 20% don't work for Python 2.6. Expecting volunteer contributors to support both is not realistic. It's hard enough to support one adequately. Even if you could hope to support both with the same code, just testing in both environments would be onerous. It would be another matter entirely if py3k offered major new functionality like full stackless microthreads but it doesn't (afaik -- correct me please). From my perspective it's just a pain in the @$$. By the way, full stackless microthreads don't seem to require breaking most (or any) existing code. I really like developing in Python -- but it's hard to keep doing it when the growth curve is so slow and a so many people have deep reservations about it, inspired in part, justifiably, by nonsense like this. In fact, I basically stopped. Then I came back. Now I'm wondering if it was such a good idea... -- Aaron Watters http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=stupid+bug -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Database vs Data Structure?
My very humble opinion - based on several years of working experience with both the Zodb and many RDBMS - is quite clear : use a RDBMS and use it properly. Yes, somewhere down the line you will want to get a report of all the customers in Ohio, ordered by county and zip code, who have a rabbit cage project -- and if you just pickle everything you will end up traversing the entire database, possibly multiple times to find it. A little old fashioned database design up front can save you a lot of pain. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=ouch -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
py3k concerns. An example
Why is the migration to py3k a concern? For example I have libraries which use string%dictionary substitution where the dictionary is actually an object which emulates a dictionary. The __getitem__ for the object can be very expensive and is only called when needed by the string substitution. In py3k string%dictionary is going away. Why? I have no idea. The replacement is a string.format(...) method which supports dictionary calling. string.format(**dictionary) But dictionary calling doesn't support dictionary emulation. So in the example below the substitution works but the call fails. === code class fdict(dict): def __getitem__(self, item): return got(+item+) def fn(**d): print d[boogie] if __name__==__main__: fd = fdict() print attempting string substitution with fake dictionary print print hello there %(boogie)s % fd # -- works print print now attempting function call with fake dictionary print fn(**fd) # -- fails === output % python2.6 dtest.py attempting string substitution with fake dictionary hello there got(boogie) now attempting function call with fake dictionary Traceback (most recent call last): File dtest.py, line 17, in module fn(**fd) File dtest.py, line 7, in fn print d[boogie] KeyError: 'boogie' end of output Consequently there is no simple way to translate my code, I think. I suspect you will find this kind of subtle issue in many places. Or worse, you won't find it until after your program has been installed in production. It's a damn shame because if string%dict was just left in it wouldn't be an issue. Also, if making f(**d) support dict emulation has any negative performance implications then I don't want it please. sigh. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=crack+open -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k concerns. An example
Try coming up with a real standard for evaluation. How much of a performance hit will actually cause you trouble? 1% extra on string interpolation? 10%? 50%? 200%? You misread my comment. I don't want function calls to support dictionary emulation if there is a speed penalty because this is such a special case and function calls are so important. I don't really know, but I think fixing the above issue for string.format(...) might involve changing the representation of every python stack frame... not worth it in this case if there is any penalty (afaik there isn't). An alternative is to provide an alternate interface to string.format so that you could pass in an object which might emulate a dictionary, like string.formatDict(D) -- or you could even adopt a shortcut notation like string % D -- hey there's an idea! -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=ignore+warnings -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
On Apr 16, 3:33 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, I'd venture that the division changes with ints are the only thing I'm really concerned about... Oh I forgot about this one. Yes, I think it's a mistake to adopt a different convention for division than C/C++/java/C#/Fortran/ Basic... Just another reason to throw your hands up in frustration, in my book... The implications of the string conversion is entirely unclear to me. I'm betting the libraries will also get improved during porting, either intentionally or accidentally which means I'll have to carefully rewrite and retest any code which uses the new and improved libraries ... and the deprecated/removed libs won't work anymore, so I can't just put them into my package... sigh. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=sigh -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
On Apr 15, 12:30 am, Sverker Nilsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No one forces me, but sooner or later they will want a Python 3.0 and then a 3.1 whatever. I don't want that fuzz. As about the C versions, I am not that worried. What's your point? I just like want to write a program that will stay working. Maybe I'll see the wisdom of py 3k eventually, if I don't die first, but I have to agree with Sverker's general comments. Just yesterday I had a conversation with someone who thinks maybe Ruby is better than Python -- the one really good argument Python has against nearly all contenders is all the stuff out there you can get so easily -- all the stuff that py3k will break -- most of which won't get ported -- and if it does can we be sure it will be tested properly? No, probably you will end up beta testing someone's quick port of what used to be rock solid code... This was quite rightly pointed out to me, and I had to agree that it was a pretty good point. In my opinion python's adherence to backwards compatibility has been a bit mythological anyway -- many new python versions have broken my old code for no good reason. This is an irritant when you have thousands of users out there who suddenly drop your code, blame you and python, and move on to use something else. Honestly, how hard would it have been to provide standard backwards support for the old regex module as a standard module which simply translated one regex string format to another, for example? I don't get it. It ain't broke. Don't fix it. At long last Python has a full head of steam and py3k is just confusing everyone. But I've been wrong before (twice). I also once thought generators were a mistake :) (but I still think full stackless would be much better, which python seems to be very slowly moving towards.) -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=nonsense -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
On Apr 16, 9:16 am, Marco Mariani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mean Ruby's track in providing backward compatibility is better than Python's? Googling for that a bit, I would reckon otherwise. I can't comment on that. Ruby is a lot younger -- I'd expect it to still be stabilizing a bit. What I'm saying is that, for example, there are a lot of cool tools out there for using Python to manipulate postscript and latex and such. Most of those tools require no maintenance, and the authors are not paying any attention to them, and they aren't interested in messing with them anymore. My guess is that there are few such tools for Ruby. However, I wouldn't be too surprised if porting them to Ruby and testing them properly is not much more difficult than porting them to py3k and testing them properly... Especially since the basic treatment of strings is totally different in py3k, it seems. Maybe there is a secret desire in the Python community to remain a fringe minority underdog forever? -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=reap+dead+child -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
On Apr 16, 11:15 am, Gabriel Genellina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16 abr, 09:56, Aaron Watters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my opinion python's adherence to backwards compatibility has been a bit mythological anyway -- many new python versions have broken my old code for no good reason. This is an irritant when you have thousands of users out there who suddenly drop your code, blame you and python, and move on to use something else. Honestly, how hard would it have been to provide standard backwards support for the old regex module as a standard module which simply translated one regex string format to another, for example? Do you mean this? py import reconvert py help(reconvert)... Yes I mean it. Actually I was unaware of/forgot reconvert, but it doesn't matter because it doesn't solve the problem of code I wrote that has long ago escaped into the wild no longer working. There are other examples too, having to do with things as simple as a name change in a standard module that broke old code of mine for what I regard as silly cosmetic reasons. I hope you are right about py3k conversions being pain free and routine. I'm suspicious about it however. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=cause+pain -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
On Apr 16, 12:27 pm, Rhamphoryncus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 16, 6:56 am, Aaron Watters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't get it. It ain't broke. Don't fix it. So how would you have done the old-style class to new-style class transition? I'd ignore it. I never understood it and never had any need for it anyway. New-style classes and metaclasses were a complicated solution to an unimportant problem in my opinion. And also a fiendish way to make code inscrutible -- which I thought was more of a Perl thing than a Python thing, or should be. I must be missing some of the deeper issues here. Please educate me. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=killer%20joke -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
Since you don't care about any of the changes or features, and you don't care if your users care, I'm not sure why you aren't just using python 2.1. It's not like it's being erased via time machine. Just keep using the old thing is a perfectly valid and extremely common futureproofing scenario. Well for one thing newer versions of python are faster and they come installed on other peoples linux and mac boxes. If I were only interested in the box sitting in front of me it sure would be a lot simpler. In reality even in a simple environment I have to support 2.3 running on a 32 bit platform and 2.4 running on a 64 bit platform with the same code. This is more of a pain than it should be. Don't get me wrong. I like things like generators that actually are useful (and amazingly fast also, I must say). I'd also love to be able to use stackless which would be even cooler but I can't because no-one else uses it to a first order approximation and I don't want to be responsible for installing it all over the place... I'm interested in developing software for/getting software from the python environment, ecosystem and community. In the short term I foresee everything bifurcating into two separate code bases, and I think that's a shame, and I don't really see the need. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=nightmare -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Profiling very small/quick functions, help!?
On Apr 16, 12:35 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if __name__==__main__: try: from cProfile import run except: from profile import run for x in range(1, 1): run(power(10,10)) def test1(): for x in xrange(1,1): test = power(10,10) if __name__==__main__: try: from cProfile import run except: from profile import run for x in range(1, 1): run(test1()) all the best! -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=jar -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
On Apr 16, 1:42 pm, Rhamphoryncus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only reason to not make the changes is that old, crufty, unmaintained libraries applications might depend on them somehow. If that's more important to you, what you really want is a language who's specs are frozen - much like C effectively is. I hope python doesn't become that for a long time yet, as there's too much it could do better. I'm feeling a bit old, crufty, and unmaintained myself, but I'll try not to take offense. There is a difference between something that works fine until the rug gets pulled out and something that needs fixing. It's a shame to junk stuff that works. Also in the case of C/java etc changing the infrastructure is less scary because you usually find out about problems when the compile or link fails. For Python you may not find out about it until the program has been run many times. Perhaps this will inspire improved linters and better coding practices I suppose if the py3k migration inspires tons of insomniac young programmers to seek fame and admiration by cleaning up ancient libraries, it would be a good thing. It seems to have happened in the Perl4-5 migration some years ago. Could happen again. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=repeatedly+hammer -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
On Apr 16, 2:33 pm, Rhamphoryncus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The point is, you can't have it both ways. Either you evolve the language and break things, or you keep it static and nothing breaks. I disagree. You can add lots of cool stuff without breaking the existing code base, mostly. For example the minor changes to the way ints will work will effect almost no programs. I don't see the urgency to clean up what are essentially cosmetic issues and throw out or require rewrites for just about all existing Python code. Python 2.6 isn't fundamentally awful like Perl 4 was. The cost paid for these minor improvements is too high in my book. But I suppose if it is going to happen do it sooner rather than later. Just *please* *please* don't systematically break the pre-existing code base again for a very long time, preferable ever. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=whack -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py3k s***s
Also in the case of C/java etc changing the infrastructure is less scary because you usually find out about problems when the compile or link fails. For Python you may not find out about it until the program has been run many times. Perhaps this will inspire improved linters and better coding practices Better coding practices such as extensive unit tests? Greetings from Earth. What planet are you from? :) There is always the possibility that frustrated programmers will decide that using something other than python is a better coding practice. I've seen it happen. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=alien -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tremendous slowdown due to garbage collection
On Apr 14, 11:18 pm, Carl Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, that is for the OP to decide. The reason I don't like the sort of question I posed is it's presumptuous--maybe the OP already considered and rejected this, and has taken steps to ensure the in memory data structure won't be swapped--but a database solution should at least be considered here. Yes, you are right, especially if the index structure will be needed many times over a long period of time. Even here though, these days, you can go pretty far by loading everything into core (streaming from disk) and dumping everything out when you are done, if needed (ahem, using the preferred way to do this from python for speed and safety: marshal ;) ). Even with Btree's if you jump around in the tree the performance can be awful. This is why Nucular, for example, is designed to stream results sequentially from disk whenever possible. The one place where it doesn't do this very well (proximity searches) shows the most problems with performance (under bad circumstances like searching for two common words in proximity). -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=joys -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tremendous slowdown due to garbage collection
A question often asked--and I am not a big a fan of these sorts of questions, but it is worth thinking about--of people who are creating very large data structures in Python is Why are you doing that? That is, you should consider whether some kind of database solution would be better. You mention lots of dicts--it sounds like some balanced B-trees with disk loading on demand could be a good choice. Well, probably because you can get better than 100x improved performance if you don't involve the disk and use clever in memory indexing. BTW, I think the default behaviour of the gc is pretty silly. I tend to disable automatic gc and explicitly put in collections when I know I'm done with some big operation these days. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=dumb+slow -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Profiling programs/scripts?
On Apr 11, 2:49 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how do i profile a program? i found out that there are some profilers included in the standard library but couldnt really figure out how to access/use them I put this at the bottom of my main module: === cut if __name__==__main__: try: from cProfile import run except: from profile import run run(tests()) === cut Here tests() is the function I want to profile. The cProfile module, when available is better than the older profile module, but it's only available in very recent Python installations. The profile run function will run the tests function and print a report on the timings and counts it found. More info here: http://docs.python.org/lib/profile.html -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=emulate+perl -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
april fools email backfires
Grapevine says that an architect/bigot at a java/spring shop sent out an April Fools email saying they had decided to port everything to Django ASAP. Of course the email was taken seriously and he got a lot of positive feedback from line developers and savvy users/managers that they thought it would be a great idea; it's about time; gotta do something about this mess... -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=other+surprises -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: object-relational mappers
Try Rails' ActiveRecord. Your problems should reduce to (lg lg 2)^(1/12). python (log(log(2)))**(1.0/12.0) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power So you are saying the problems will get really complex? :) Seriously, you'll forget there's a relational database below. (there are even intefaces for relational lists, trees, etc.) My experience with this sort of thing is that it is a bit like morphine. It can feel really good, and in emergencies it can save you a lot of pain. But if you use it too often and too seriously you end up with really big problems. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=mysterious+objects -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: april fools email backfires
On Apr 2, 11:07 am, Paul McGuire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you post a link? -- Paul Sorry. It came from private email. And I don't want to get anyone in trouble... -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=secret+feature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
object-relational mappers
I've been poking around the world of object-relational mappers and it inspired me to coin a corellary to the the famous quote on regular expressions: You have objects and a database: that's 2 problems. So: get an object-relational mapper: now you have 2**3 problems. That is to say I feel that they all make me learn so much about the internals and features of the O-R mapper itself that I would be better off rolling my own queries on an as-needed basis without wasting so many brain cells. comments? -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=mild+exponential+growth -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: csv Parser Question - Handling of Double Quotes
On Mar 27, 6:00 pm, John Machin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...The Python csv module emulates Excel in delivering garbage silently in cases when the expected serialisation protocol has (detectably) not been followed Fine, but I'd say the heuristic adopted produces bizarre and surprising results in the illustrated case. It's a matter of taste of course... -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=mondo+bizarre -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: csv Parser Question - Handling of Double Quotes
this;is;a;test
Resulting in an output of:
['this', 'is', 'a', 'test']
However, if I modify the csv to:
this;is;a;test
The output changes to:
['this', 'is', 'a', 'test']
I'd be tempted to say that this is a bug,
except that I think the definition of csv is
informal, so the bug/feature distinction
cannot be exactly defined, unless I'm mistaken.
What I would do is write roll my own
parser using very simple python and check
that it works for the examples of interest.
If, for example, you can assume that the
delimiter will never occur inside the
payload and the payload contains no
quoted characters you could do something like:
cut
def trimQuotes(txt):
txt = txt.strip()
if txt:
start = txt[0]
end = txt[-1]
if start==end and start in ('', '):
return txt[1:-1]
return txt
def simpleCsv(lines, delimiter):
for line in lines:
fields = line.split(delimiter)
fields = map(trimQuotes, fields)
yield fields
def test():
lines = ['this;is;a;test']
for fields in simpleCsv(lines, ';'):
print fields
if __name__==__main__:
test()
=== cut
If you want fame and admiration you could fix
the arguably bug in the csv module and send
the patch to the python bugs mailing list.
However, I just had a perusal of csv.py
good luck :).
-- Aaron Watters
===
http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=too+general
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pycon disappointment
On Mar 18, 12:55 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen on the diamond keynotes and lightning talks. The lightning talks were a great disappointment. Sponsor talks (or any such talks pitched at selling or recruiting) should go in their own, clearly labeled group so those of us who don't care about them can avoid them... Seconded. I haven't been at a Python Conf for a long time but as a former attendee and (not very good) organizer I have a couple suggestions based on my past experience and mistakes: - The conference is too long and it shouldn't be on the weekend. - Almost all talks should be 10 minutes at most with prepared slides and extended abstract with references. - With much shorter talks you should be able to accept just about any properly prepared talk (with abstract and slides) and this should reduce the politics and increase the attendance (with speakers and some colleagues and maybe broader interest). I don't know about this conference, but in past conferences I've been frustrated by people who give out a train of conscience meander including popping in and out of various console prompts, editors, web pages, guis... without conveying any useful information (to me) in 30 minutes. If you tell them they have 10 minutes and make them get organized in advanced they are much more likely to get to the point and everyone can see something else before they run out of attention span. -- Aaron Watters === bye bye petroleum! good riddance. http://biofuels.usu.edu/htm/initiative http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=pretty+boring -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
off topic: 2 videos on source control and open source development
I just wanted to send out links to 2 informative videos regarding open source and change control systems. The first is Linus Torvalds on git and how it contrasts with subversion and other approaches (where he says some nice things about Mercurial, btw). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8 This one is about managing the community dynamics in the subversion project. http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 It only made me a little uncomfortable at certain moments :). Good viewing. -- Aaron Watters === http://www.xfeedme.com/nucular/pydistro.py/go?FREETEXT=mileage -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
