Re: What YAML engine do you use?
rm wrote: Doug Holton wrote: rm wrote: this implementation of their idea. But I'd love to see a generic, pythonic data format. That's a good idea. But really Python is already close to that. A lot of times it is easier to just write out a python dictionary than using a DB or XML or whatever. Python is already close to YAML in some ways. true, it's easy enough to separate the data from the functionality in python by putting the data in a dictionary/list/tuple, but it stays source code. Check out JSON, an alternative to XML for data interchange. It is basically just python dictionaries and lists: http://www.crockford.com/JSON/example.html I think I would like this better than YAML or XML, and it looks like it already parses as valid Python code, except for the /* */ multiline comments (which boo supports). It was mentioned in a story about JSON-RPC-Java: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/24/125236 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What YAML engine do you use?
Fredrik Lundh wrote: A.M. Kuchling wrote: IMHO that's a bit extreme. Specifications are written to be detailed, so consequently they're torture to read. Seen the ReStructured Text spec lately? I've read many specs; YAML (both the spec and the format) is easily among the worst ten-or-so specs I've ever seen. What do you expect? YAML is designed for humans to use, XML is not. YAML also hasn't had the backing and huge community behind it like XML. XML sucks for people to have to write in, but is straightforward to parse. The consequence is hordes of invalid XML files, leading to necessary hacks like the mark pilgrim's universal rss parser. YAML flips the problem around, making it harder perhaps to implement a universal parser, but better for the end-user who has to actually use it. More people need to work on improving the YAML spec and implementing better YAML parsers. We've got too many XML parsers as it is. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What YAML engine do you use?
Fredrik Lundh wrote: and trust me, when things are hard to get right for developers, users will suffer too. That is exactly why YAML can be improved. But XML proves that getting it right for developers has little to do with getting it right for users (or for saving bandwidth). What's right for developers is what requires the least amount of work. The problem is, that's what is right for end-users, too. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What YAML engine do you use?
rm wrote: this implementation of their idea. But I'd love to see a generic, pythonic data format. That's a good idea. But really Python is already close to that. A lot of times it is easier to just write out a python dictionary than using a DB or XML or whatever. Python is already close to YAML in some ways. Maybe even better than YAML, especially if Fredrik's claims of YAML's inherent unreliability are to be believed. Of course he develops a competing XML product, so who knows. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT] XML design intent [was Re: What YAML engine do you use?]
Peter Hansen wrote: Good question. The point is that an XML document is sometimes a file, sometimes a record in a relational database, sometimes an object delivered by an Object Request Broker, and sometimes a stream of bytes arriving at a network socket. These can all be described as data objects. I would ask what part of that, or of the simple phrase data object, or even of the basic concept of a markup language, doesn't cry out data interchange metalanguage to you? Actually I don't see any explicit mention that XML was meant to be limited to data interchange only. data object has to do with more than data interchange. There is data entry as well. And people are having to hand enter XML files all the time for things like Ant, XHTML, etc. I guess all those people who learned how to write web pages by hand were violating some spec and so they have no cause to complain about any difficulties doing so. Tim Berners-Lee never intended people to have to type in URLs, either, but here we are. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What YAML engine do you use?
Steve Holden wrote: Yet again I will interject that XML was only ever intended to be wriiten by programs. Hence its moronic stupidity and excellent uniformity. Neither was HTML, neither were URLs, neither were many things used the way they were intended. YAML, however, is specifically designed to be easier for people to write and to read, as is Python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What YAML engine do you use?
You might like programming in XML then: http://www.meta-language.net/ Actually, the samples are hard to find, they are here: http://www.meta-language.net/sample.html Programming in XML makes Perl and PHP look like the cleanest languages ever invented. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Game programming in Python
Baza wrote: I'm looking for any books or on-line resources on game programming using Python. Does anyone have any advice? See http://pygame.org/ There is also a book called Game Programming with Python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Windows GUIs from Python
Bob Swerdlow wrote: Anyone have opinions about whether we will be better off using PythonNet or wxPython for the GUI layer of our application on Windows? Our code is all Python and is now running on Mac OS X with PyObjC and Cocoa, which works very well. Our goal is not necessarily to move to a cross-platform solution, but rather to create a solid Windows version that looks and feels like a native application. All the code that interacts with the user is factored out of our business logic, so it is a matter of find a good view/controller library and writing a thin glue layer. And, of course, we want to build it as efficiently and robustly as we can. I would also recommend wxPython. It runs on Macs, too, so you can at least see how it compares to your PyObjC interface and keep primarily developing on your Mac. You might also be interested in PyGUI although it doesn't have a native Windows implementation yet: http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Embedding a restricted python interpreter
Rolf Magnus wrote: Hi, I would like to embed a python interpreter within a program, but since that program would be able to automatically download scripts from the internet, I'd like to run those in a restricted environment, which basically means that I want to allow only a specific set of modules to be used by the scripts, so that it wouldn't be possible for them to remove files from the hard drive, kill processes or do other nasty stuff. Is there any way to do that with the standard python interpreter? Hi, there is a page on this topic here: http://www.python.org/moin/SandboxedPython The short answer is that it is not possible to do this with the CPython, but you can run sandboxed code on other virtual machines, such as Java's JVM with Jython, or .NET/Mono's CLR with Boo or IronPython. In the future it may also be possible to do this with PyPy or Parrot. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How do I make Windows Application with Python ?
BOOGIEMAN wrote: Thanks all for very detailed answers. BTW I tried this one but it seems that it doesn't use VS'es visual designer. Also it doesn't have build option so it is basicly only usefull to higlight Python syntax. Active Sate Komodo looks like much better choice I don't know of any python IDE with a visual designer and a build to exe option. But since you are familiar with Visual Studio and you are developing on Windows, you might check out the free SharpDevelop IDE: http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/ Then unzip this boo add-in into the SharpDevelop folder under Program Files: http://coedit.net/boo/BooBinding.zip Then you can start up SharpDevelop, create a new boo project, press the green play button, and your exe will be built and executed (the one below is only 4kb in size). We are working on adding support for SharpDevelop's visual form designer soon. To show a Windows message box instead of printing to the console like you were asking earlier, you can use code like this: import System.Windows.Forms MessageBox.Show(your message) Or for a more complete windows app: import System.Drawing import System.Windows.Forms class MainForm(Form): def constructor(): self.Text = My Window b = Button(Text: Click Me) b.Location = Point(100,75) b.Click += def(): MessageBox.Show(Button clicked) #or: #b.Click += OnButtonClick self.Controls.Add(b) def OnButtonClick(): MessageBox.Show(Button clicked) f = MainForm() Application.Run(f) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python evolution: Unease
Istvan Albert wrote: But if python were to become overly complicated I'll find something else. Three years ago I have not not used python at all, now I'm using it for everything. You're in luck, python 2.4 won't be significantly changing anytime soon. PS. why can't decorators solve this optional type checking problem? I clearly remember this as being one of the selling points for having decorators in the first place... Because they are quite obviously an ugly and overly complicated solution. Even Guido understood this: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048518.html A warning: some people have shown examples of extreme uses of decorators. I've seen decorators proposed for argument and return type annotations, and even one that used a decorator to create an object that did a regular expression substitution. Those uses are cute, but I recommend being conservative when deciding between using a decorator or some other approach, especially in code that will see a large audience (like 3rd party library packages). Using decorators for type annotations in particular looks tedious, and this particular application is so important that I expect Python 3000 will have optional type declarations integrated into the argument list. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python evolution: Unease
Istvan Albert wrote: Doug Holton wrote: application is so important that I expect Python 3000 will have optional type declarations integrated into the argument list. I think that *optional* part of the optional type declaration is a myth. It may be optional in the sense that the language will accept missing declarations but as soon as the feature is available it will become mandatory to use it (peer pressure, workplace practices). I didn't write that, Guido did. I agree with you, and others who have made the same point you made. I would have to think Guido is already aware of this issue (keep python simple). I'm not sure what his motivations are for wanting to add static typing to python, not that I'm against it. It doesn't matter a whole lot either way since Python 3000 is still years away and you can already do static typing now with Pyrex or boo, as well as many other things that people have requested for python from little things like ++i to bigger features like multi-line anonymous methods/closures. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What can I do with Python ??
BOOGIEMAN wrote: Thanks everybody, I downloaded latest windows version and Python-Docs-2.4 archive. Is that enough for absolute beginner. Is there any e-book, step by step guide ... etc for download, or anything else important what I have to know before I start learning Python ? The main thing I would do is subscribe to the python-tutor list. It is the best place by far to ask any questions when you are learning to use python: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor Second, here are some of the best tutorials specifically designed for people with little or no previous programming experience: http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/ http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ http://www.dickbaldwin.com/tocpyth.htm http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/pyBiblio/ And lastly, really a great way to learn is to look at what's already out there in python. Try out some of the many 3rd party libraries and programs for python: For games: http://pygame.org/ For GUI applications: http://www.wxpython.org/ and others: http://www.python.org/pypi -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Securing a future for anonymous functions in Python
Steven Bethard wrote:
Simo Melenius wrote:
map (def x:
if foo (x):
return baz_1 (x)
elif bar (x):
return baz_2 (x)
else:
global hab
hab.append (x)
return baz_3 (hab),
[1,2,3,4,5,6])
I think this would probably have to be written as:
Right the comma plus other things make this difficult for a parser to
handle correctly. Other people have already come up with working solutions.
We have a special way to pass a multiline closure as a parameter to a
function. Put it outside the parameter list.
First, the single-line way using curly braces:
newlist = map({x as int | return x*x*x}, [1,2,3,4,5,6])
Then the multi-line way. I had to add an overload of map to support
reversing the order of parameters (list first, then the closure):
newlist = map([1,2,3,4,5,6]) def (x as int):
return x*x*x
for item in newlist:
print item
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: argument type
It's me wrote: The argument I wish to pass is either one string, or a list of strings, or a tuple of strings. For instance, I have: def abc(arg1, arg2, arg3) Let say that I expect arg1 and arg3 to be a number, and arg2 can be either one string, or a bunch of strings and I need to do something on each of the strings passed down. def seq(x): if hasattr(x,__iter__): return x else: return (x,) def abc (arg1, arg2, arg3): for item in seq(arg2): print item abc(1,test1,2) abc(1,[test1,test2],2) abc(1,2,3) abc(1,[2,3,4],5) abc(1,(2,3,4),5) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Other notes
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for i in 1..12: pass for c in a..z: pass @infix def interval(x, y): return range(x, y+1) # 2 parameters needed assert 5 interval 9 == interval(5,9) 10) There can be something in the middle between the def statement and the lambda. These will likely not appear in CPython standard, but Livelogix runs on top of the CPython VM and supports .. sequences and custom infix operators: http://logix.livelogix.com/tutorial/5-Standard-Logix.html 11) This is just a wild idea for an alternative syntax to specify a global variable inside a function. From: def foo(x): global y y = y + 2 (the last two lines are indented) To: def foo(x): global.y = global.y + 2 Beside the global.y, maybe it can exist a syntax like upper.y or caller.y that means the name y in the upper context. upper.upper.y etc. This will also likely never appear in Python. I like your idea though. I implemented the same exact thing a couple months ago. One difference though, you only need to type out the full global.y if you want to differentiate it from a local variable with the same name. 15) NetLogo is a kind of logo derived from StarLogo, implemented in Java. Show that this language is only partially a toy, and it can be useful to understand and learn nonlinear dynamics of many systems. If you want to do something like Netlogo but using Python instead of Logo, see: http://repast.sourceforge.net/ You can script repast in jython or you can script repast.net. Also, you might request the NetLogo and StarLogo developers to support Jython (in addition to Logo) scripting in their next version (which is already in development and supports 3D). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Optional Static Typing
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding Optional Static Typing to Python looks like a quite complex thing, but useful too: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=85551 Thanks for pointing out that article by Guido van Rossum. Looks like it just came out today. It is something that may be added to Python 3.0: http://www.python.org/moin/Python3.0 Sometimes it can be useful to mix parts with static typing and parts without it in the same module (because dynamic typing is very useful sometimes), but some other times you want to be sure to have a full typed and checked module. The closest option right now in CPython is to use Pyrex. http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/ Boo (http://boo.codehaus.org/) is a different language, but I like its as instead of : and -, to have: def min(a as iterable(T)) as T: Instead of: def min(a: iterable(T)) - T: Right, you're first example is how Boo does it, and the 2nd is how Guido proposed to do it in Python 3.0. Boo flips the problem around. Instead of optional static typing, everything is statically typed by default (but with type inference so you do not always need to explicitly declare the type), and it has optional runtime typing that works like python's (duck typing). http://svn.boo.codehaus.org/trunk/tests/testcases/integration/duck-2.boo?view=auto http://svn.boo.codehaus.org/trunk/examples/duck-typing/XmlObject.boo?view=auto http://svn.boo.codehaus.org/trunk/tests/testcases/integration/duck-5.boo?view=auto http://boo.codehaus.org/Duck+Typing And there are some disadvantages to doing it this way. It means Python is more flexible to use than Boo, as I stated a couple months back: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/messages/c57cf0e48827f3de,a750c109b8ee57c3,cf89205a5e93051e,cfb1c7453e1f3c07,58a2dedd1059783e,8a1ee82cc328d023,7a51cdc9ffecbc72,38304f35cb42bb63,fc5e4ae1cbae0248,2de118caa7010b30?thread_id=5a7018d37b7bf4b8mode=threadnoheader=1q=boo+python-like#doc_7a51cdc9ffecbc72 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: regular expression: perl == python
Fredrik Lundh wrote: JZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: import re line = The food is under the bar in the barn. if re.search(r'foo(.*)bar',line): print 'got %s\n' % _.group(1) Traceback (most recent call last): File jz.py, line 4, in ? print 'got %s\n' % _.group(1) NameError: name '_' is not defined He was using the python interactive prompt, which I suspect you already knew. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: newbie question
Stephen Waterbury wrote: Luis M. Gonzalez wrote: Amyway, I wouldn't want to use this list to talk about Boo, because I think that the best place to do it is comp.lang.boo. However, since I think it is definetely python related (I know you disagree, but others don't) I see no harm in mentioning it here occasionally. Luis, that is *exactly* Peter's position: Peter Hansen wrote: ... If Doug wants to come in from time to time and mention Boo, however, he's welcome to do so. ... ... so there is no need for you to say you see no harm in it, making it sound as though Peter *does* see harm in it. You can defend Peter all you want, but you can't take back the other things he has said which you did not cite. Quote: I think doing this by defending Doug's postings, however, might weaken the strength of your position just a little. (Okay, I mean a lot.) A flame. Quote: About the only time the word boo _does_ come up, it comes up in one of Doug's posts, often in an apparent attempt to help a Python newbie by pointing him in a misleading manner A misrepresentation of my intentions. If someone asks if python has interfaces, and I say first, pyprotocols has something similar, but boo does have support for real interfaces, then that is help and that is not misleading in the slightest. Quote: As a result of all the activity in the Boo who? thread, however, He failed to mention that he is the one who started and propagated this very thread, which devolved into nothing more than a flame-fest, which was his intention all along. Quote: I went and searched a bit to find out who this Doug character is. Another flame, and we are still in the same note by Peter Hansen, folks. Quote: It turns out that he's been mentioning Boo in postings *to newbies* repeatedly over the last few months. *to newbies* - oh my god, dare I mention the word boo to a newbie. Another mischaracterization of what I did. Quote: These are people trying to use Python, having a question or difficulty about it, and he launches into a sales job about some other language. I am not selling anything. This is a subtle flame related to calling me an evangelist. Does Peter Hansen make money using python? Does he have something to sell at engcorp that uses CPython? Quote: Would you defend someone who came into this group and responded (admittedly helpfully, sometimes, in other ways) to newbie questions by constantly saying you can do this much more easily in Perl of course, see www.perl.codehaus.org? Another complete mischaracterization of what I did. When someone asks for something that they cannot do in python, then I noted alternative solutions, such as jython or boo or whatever tool is best for the job. Quote: Then downright offensive. Another flame. Quote: What Doug has been doing is like standing at the door of a mission run by a church a... Yet again, another flame. Quote: he turns on them and accuses them of religious persecution, and being unfriendly to boot. Another mischaracterization. In fact, a complete lie. I'm only halfway through his message. It would take me all day to point out all his flames. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Re: newbie question]
Steve Holden wrote: 'Scuse me? This group has a long history of off-topic posting, and anyway who decided that CPython should be the exclusive focus? Even on-topic we can talk about Jython and PyPy as well as CPython. Off-topic we can talk about what we damned well please. Even boo :-) Thankyou, that's the most intelligent thing you've said all week. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Re: newbie question]
Ed Leafe wrote: You've missed the obvious: it's 'criticism' or 'observation' when it comes from Doug, but it's a 'flame' when it is directed at Doug. Unless there is something more substantial then whining, howzabout we all just ignore it and let it die a quick death? It's amazing how many of you guys try this - spew some filth and then beg people to stop the thread right now. Speaking of Ed Leafe: You might want to check out Dabo, an application framework of which I am one of the authors. What are you selling? We offer one-on-one live phone, chat, or on-site support at an hourly rate, with a minimum charge of one hour plus phone charges or travel costs. Contact the authors (Ed Leafe and Paul McNett) for more information. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
What is on-topic for the python list [was Re: BASIC vs Python]
Steve Holden wrote: 'Scuse me? This group has a long history of off-topic posting, and anyway who decided that CPython should be the exclusive focus? Even on-topic we can talk about Jython and PyPy as well as CPython. I agree with your point, although Hans Nowak and others may not. Anything related to python or from the perspective of a current or potential python user is on-topic for this list. We can talk about logo, jython, java or other topics whenever and whereever we want. If you can't accept free speech and different perspectives, you're going to be disappointed. But please do not react by trying to intimidate and troll others here. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is on-topic for the python list [was Re: BASIC vs Python]
Nick Vargish wrote: Doug Holton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you can't accept free speech and different perspectives, you're going to be disappointed. But please do not react by trying to intimidate and troll others here. Weren't you the one telling the rest of us what's appropriate for this group? Maybe you should try to lead by example, not decree. I never did any such thing. Logo was my example. I was making a point in the logo example, which Steve Holden articulated. Hans Nowak and others were the ones unsuccessfully trying to control what people could talk about here. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: newbie question
Fredrik Lundh wrote: have you harrassed a Pythoneer today? /F Yes, you have. I'll ask again that you stop. Just because you make a living in part off of a CPython module, doesn't mean we cannot discuss python-related things on this list, or discuss things from the perspective of a python user, or suggest alternative solutions when someone asks for a feature that Python does not have. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is on-topic for the python list [was Re: BASIC vs Python]
Hans Nowak wrote: Now you're trying to make it seem like I am against free speech on this list, and against people's rights to discuss whatever they want. I never said that, and I in fact enjoy the fact that c.l.py posters are an eclectic bunch who have knowledge of, and like to talk about, a great number of topics. You said that boo should not be mentioned on this newsgroup. That is a fact. You cannot and should not try to dictate any standard for what can and cannot be said in this forum, other than what I already suggested in the quote below: Anything related to python or from the perspective of a current or potential python user is on-topic for this list. We can talk about logo, jython, java or other topics whenever and whereever we want. If you can't accept free speech and different perspectives, you're going to be disappointed. Sorry to disappoint. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is on-topic for the python list [was Re: BASIC vs Python]
Hans Nowak wrote: You said that boo should not be mentioned on this newsgroup. Please point me to the post where I said that. Since everything is stored in Google Groups, it should be easy for you to come up with an URL... if such a post existed. Quote: this is comp.lang.python, not comp.lang.boo. This is not comp.lang.logo, either, but discussing it from the point of view of a python user is perfectly acceptable. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is on-topic for the python list [was Re: BASIC vs Python]
Hans Nowak wrote: Quote: this is comp.lang.python, not comp.lang.boo. Which is obviously not the same as Boo should not be mentioned on this newsgroup. I used the exact same phrase in another note except using the term logo instead of boo, and that is the exact interpretation I immediately received from others - they felt I was censuring the discussion here, as I felt you were. The discussion with Logo and other languages in it was off-topic too, but it wasn't offensive to anyone. I'm not going to dignify that or the rest of your note with a response. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is on-topic for the python list [was Re: BASIC vs Python]
Hans Nowak wrote: The discussion with Logo and other languages in it was off-topic too, but it wasn't offensive to anyone. I'm not going to dignify that or the rest of your note with a response. No, by all means, let's ignore any pieces of a post that might lead to constructive discussion. Well, it's been fun, but I really don't have time for this. If we cannot end this thread with some kind of mutual understanding, then I will end it unilaterally. You have the dubious honor of being the first person in my killfile since 1997. You've yet again confirmed that your only point in this whole thread was to be disrepectful and complain about what offends you. And you end it with yet more parting insults. If you had better articulated what you really meant at the beginning, I never would have responded to you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is on-topic for the python list [was Re: BASIC vs Python]
Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote: Non sequitur. The phrase's interpretation depends on the posting(s) it refers to. Exactly. He was saying boo (and/or I) am offensive, but logo is not. And then he apologized for misleading me to believe he was censuring me instead of flaming me. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: Python Multimedia Computing book and software
This book is due to be published any day now: Introduction to computing and programming with Python: A Multimedia Approach by Mark Guzdial, a CS professor at Georgia Tech. It uses the Jython Environment for Students (JES). You can use this to for example work with and manipulate images or sounds. A similar book is available in preview form: Introduction to Media Computation: A Multimedia Cookbook in Python. See this page for info on the books, the software, course notes, research papers, and more info: http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/mediaComp-plan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
Re: Boo who? (was Re: newbie question)
Peter Hansen wrote: Doug Holton wrote: Peter Hansen wrote: Virtually identical indeed. :-) As noted on the website that I've pointed out to you multiple times now, the syntax of boo is indeed virtually identical to python. The functionality however, is more like C#. Sadly your second post hasn't reached my news server, which is quite flaky. Fortunately (checking Google Groups), I see it added nothing of substance, as it merely points to the site again, without addressing my comments about how syntactical similarity or even identity doesn't justify the term virtually identical, which implies that in all respects one thing is essentially identical to another. I gave such a short answer because the way you framed your questions and the context of your post made it clear you are a troll. Your reply here was yet another troll. You are one of the reasons why so-called newbies and others are being intimidated away from this list. -Doug -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web forum (made by python)
Fredrik Lundh wrote: ask yourself if that thing you read really was a vicious attack by bunch of nasty trolls, or if, perhaps, you missed the point. You still do not even acknowledge your behavior then? If it is your wish that I never mention boo again, then I will not, even though you and not I are the one with a financial conflict of interest in the matter. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Boo who? (was Re: newbie question)
Istvan Albert wrote: Doug Holton wrote: the syntax of boo is indeed virtually identical to python. All that boo does is borrows a few syntactical constructs from python. Calling it virtually identical is *very* misleading. The syntax is indeed virtually identical to python. You are yet another person who has trolled before. See your obvious trolling reply here, for example: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/messages/c57cf0e48827f3de,a750c109b8ee57c3,cf89205a5e93051e,cfb1c7453e1f3c07,58a2dedd1059783e,8a1ee82cc328d023,7a51cdc9ffecbc72,38304f35cb42bb63,fc5e4ae1cbae0248,2de118caa7010b30?thread_id=5a7018d37b7bf4b8mode=threadnoheader=1q=boo#doc_a750c109b8ee57c3 Do you have financial conflict of interest too like Fredrik? Or is it just a psychological issue? I have no stake in python or any other language changing or not changing. You guys need to accept change rather than fear it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: newbie question
David Wurmfeld wrote: I am new to python; any insight on the following would be appreciated, even if it is the admonition to RTFM (as long as you can direct me to a relevant FM) Is there a standard approach to enumerated types? I could create a dictionary with a linear set of keys, but isn't this overkill? There is afterall a True and False enumeration for Boolean. To actually answer your question, no, there is no standard for enums in python. There are custom hacks for it that you can search for. This is a good sugestion for Python 3.0, a.k.a. Python 3000: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/Python3.0 In the future you may be able to to this: enum Color: Red Green Blue However, Python 3.0 is likely years away. If you want to know how to run this code today, consult Fredrik Lundh. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How about pure virtual methods?
Doug Holton wrote: Noam Raphael wrote: even in the best solution that I know of, there's now way to check if a subclass has implemented all the required methods without running it and testing if it works. I think there are some solutions like PyProtocols, see section 2.2 on this page: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/MetaClasses Let me rephrase the rest of my answer. This is something we could use in Python. You should add a feature request to have this in Python 3.0, a.k.a. Python 3000: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/Python3.0 You might have simple code such as: inteface ICallable: def Call(args) However, Python 3.0 is likely years away. If you want to know how to run code like this and have real interfaces, abstract classes and virtual methods today, consult Fredrik Lundh. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: atmosphere on c.l.py (WAS: How about pure virtual methods?)
Doug Holton wrote: Steven Bethard wrote: I don't really have a good solution; despite the unnecessarily vicious comments, I don't feel like I can set my newsreader to ignore messages from, for example, Fredrik, because his answers, when not attacks, are often very insightful. If you find a good solution to this problem, please let me know. Thankyou for bringing it up. It looks like it may have a positive effect. Unfortunately, I may have jumped the gun on that one. He does not even acknowledge his behavior outside of the three instances he referred to. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Boo who? (was Re: newbie question)
Hans Nowak wrote: Regardless of the merits of Boo, this is comp.lang.python, not comp.lang.boo. The language may *look* like Python, but its inner workings are nothing like Python, as several people have correctly pointed out now. (Just like Java's syntax may look like C or C++ in some areas, but the languages are nowhere near alike.) Pointing out the difference is not trolling. Let me say it again then, although I do not know why it threatens people so much: the syntax of boo is indeed virtually identical to python's. That is what I said and what is clear from the website. I already stated that I will not mention boo again, to comply with Fredrik's wishes and yours. I will refer to CPython, and CPython only. But I will not be intimidated by the likes of Fredrik Lundh. Trollers will be held accountable. If it continues at this pace, then I suggest a weekly troll alert, to educate and prepare the so-called newbies for the behavior that occurs on this list. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy here documents ??
Jim Hill wrote:
Is there a way to produce a very long multiline string of output with
variables' values inserted without having to resort to this wacky
v = %s%(variable)
No, it is currently not possible in Python without the hacks you have
seen already. Python is long overdue for simpler string interpolation
as seen in many other scripting languages.
You should add a feature request to have this in Python 3.0, a.k.a.
Python 3000: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/Python3.0
Then you could simple do something like:
variable1 = 1
variable2 = 2
s =
v = ${variable1}
v2's value is: ${variable2}
However, Python 3.0 is likely years away. If you want to know how to
run code like this today, consult Fredrik Lundh.
--
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Re: Easy here documents ??
Bengt Richter wrote:
variable1 = 1
variable2 = 2
s =
v = ${variable1}
v2's value is: ${variable2}
However, Python 3.0 is likely years away. If you want to know how to
run code like this today, consult Fredrik Lundh.
Or replace ${...} with equally simple %(...)s in the above and be happy ;-)
I'm afraid you are incorrect. Simply replacing the $ with % in my
example will not work in Python.
If you would like to use % instead of $, I recommend requesting that
feature for Python 3.0: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/Python3.0
--
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Re: How about pure virtual methods?
Fredrik Lundh trolled: (I think you could create some kind of drinking game based on the number of ...times the nasty trolls pounce on this list? No, I think the idea is to actually address the content of someone's question, politely and in the *holiday spirit*, not spirits. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: input record seperator (equivalent of $| of perl)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I know that i can do readline() from a file object. However, how can I read till a specific seperator? for exmple, if my files are name profession id # name2 profession3 id2 I would like to read this file as a record. I can do this in perl by defining a record seperator; is there an equivalent in python? thanks To actually answer your question, there is no equivalent to $| in python. You need to hand code your own record parser, or else read in the whole contents of the file and use the string split method to chop it up into fields. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy here documents ??
Jim Hill wrote:
Is there a way to produce a very long multiline string of output with
variables' values inserted without having to resort to this wacky
v = %s%(variable)
No, not without the god-awful hacks you've already seen.
But it is possible in boo: : http://boo.codehaus.org/
See http://boo.codehaus.org/String+Interpolation
variable1 = 1
variable2 = 2
s =
v = ${variable1}
v2's value is: ${variable2}
print s
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Re: Web forum (made by python)
Gezer Punta wrote: hi all I am looking for a forum which was produced by python If you want Zope-based, try Plone. But probably you don't. I am not aware of any standard python CGI-based forum software, but I am sure you could find one if you search sourceforge or google. I am surprised no one else already answered this for you. I guess your question was too simple to challenge the large egos here. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web forum (made by python)
Jp Calderone wrote: Part of fostering a friendly environment on python-list is not making comments like these. Another part is actually answering the content of a person's question like I did, instead of trolling and flaming, like Fredrik and others here are want to do. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Boo who? (was Re: newbie question)
Peter Hansen wrote: Why? If it's virtually identical, why would anyone bother even visiting that site? ;-) But I suspect you mean that the syntax of the language is virtually identical, while probably there are some significant differences. Maybe in the richness of its standard library? Or the size of its community? Or something else That's why I wrote: See http://boo.codehaus.org/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Boo who? (was Re: newbie question)
Peter Hansen wrote: Virtually identical indeed. :-) As noted on the website that I've pointed out to you multiple times now, the syntax of boo is indeed virtually identical to python. The functionality however, is more like C#. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web forum (made by python)
Peter Hansen wrote: None of which in any way invalidates Jp's point... Neither does it invalidate mine. What is up with the trollers today? They are out in force now that the holidays are here. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: Python Multimedia Computing book and software
This book is due to be published any day now: Introduction to computing and programming with Python: A Multimedia Approach by Mark Guzdial, a CS professor at Georgia Tech. It uses the Jython Environment for Students (JES). It is completely free and open source. You can use it for example to work with and manipulate images or sounds. A similar book is available in preview form: Introduction to Media Computation: A Multimedia Cookbook in Python. See this page for info on the books, the software, course notes, research papers, and more info: http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/mediaComp-plan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: atmosphere on c.l.py (WAS: How about pure virtual methods?)
Steven Bethard wrote: Doug Holton wrote: Fredrik Lundh wrote: well, since I'm not in the ego-stroking business, what if I promise never to reply to posts by you, robert, and alex? That's not fair to the rest of us though :) That's not even fair to the non-rest of us. =) As I noted, his answers ... are often very insightful -- it would be a pity to lose them. He was only acknowledging the problem to those 3 people who complained about it. I was making the point that others do not like being trolled either. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: better lambda support in the future?
Jason Zheng wrote:
I'm wondering why python still has limited lambda support. What's
stopping the developers of python to support more lisp-like lambda
function?
See boo and its support for closures: http://boo.codehaus.org/
http://boo.codehaus.org/Closures
It works with def or do, or single-line closures use {}.
x = def:
print hello
A closure with parameters:
c = def(x1 as int, x2 as string):
print x1, x2
Single line closures use {}
c = {print(hello)}
Single line with parameters
c = {item as string | print(item)}
#Passing closures to a method as a parameter:
def mymethod(c as callable):
c()
x = mymethod( {print(hello)} )
#passing a multi-line closure as a parameter:
x = mymethod() do():
print hello
#Adding a closure to an event handler:
button.Click += def ():
print(${button} was clicked!)
--
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Re: BASIC vs Python
abisofile wrote: hi I'm new to programming.I've try a little BASIC so I want ask since Python is also interpreted lang if it's similar to BASIC. Which BASIC did you try? Realbasic? Visual Basic? You should check out some of these beginner's python tutorials: http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut.pdf http://www.dickbaldwin.com/tocpyth.htm http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ and then if you have any questions at all about anything, people on the python-tutor list would be glad to help: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor If you want to make applications with a graphical user interface (GUI), check out wxpython, although they haven't yet released a version that works with the new python 2.4 however: http://wxpython.org/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python good for graphics?
Esmail Bonakdarian wrote: First of all, I *really* like Python ;-) I need some help with the graphical side of things. I would like to do some basic graphics with Python, but I am not sure what the best/most effective way for me to do what I want. Basically, I would like to be able to create some basic animations where I can help visualize various sorting algorithms (for instance http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~morris/Year2/PLDS210/sorting.html#insert_anim) or graph searches (coloring nodes as each gets visited). (Something like this: http://cs.smith.edu/~thiebaut/java/graph/Welcome.html) Or to create and manipulate programmatically a simple 2-D block puzzle (like this: http://www.johnrausch.com/SlidingBlockPuzzles/quzzle.htm). Note, the ability to do this via the web would be nice, but definitely is *not* required at the moment. I'll tell you know it's not going to be so easy. There isn't something in python like flash. But here are some options: See pyxel for python: http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/r/prochak/pyxel.html and pygame: http://pygame.org/ Gato, the graph animation toolkit, is implemented in python and tkinter: http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~gato/ You know you can use java with python, too. It's called jython. You could use jython to interface the open source physics toolkit, for example: http://www.opensourcephysics.org/ See also the Jython Environment for Students (JES). A book about it is supposed to be published tomorrow actually. And you can use a python-like language for .NET called boo with the Piccolo.NET structured graphics toolkit: http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/jazz/ or these graph drawing toolkits: http://netron.sourceforge.net/ewiki/ http://www.codeproject.com/cs/miscctrl/quickgraph.asp -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Suggestion for syntax error: ++i, --i
Petr Prikryl wrote: Hi, Summary: In my opinion, the C-like prefix increment and decrement operators (++i and --i) should be marked as syntax error. We have a patch for increment and decrement operators in boo ( http://boo.codehaus.org/ ), along with an operator overloading syntax like below. See http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/BOO-223 def +: pass -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python 3.0
Chris wrote: Okay, color me stupid, but what is everyone referencing when they mention Python 3.0? I didn't see any mention of it on the Python site. http://www.python.org/moin/Python3.0 has more information than the PEP 3000, plus you can contribute to the page. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how can I import a module without using pythonpath?
Phd wrote: Hi, I'm using python 2.2, I want to import a module by referring to its relative location. The reason for this is that there is another module with the same name that's already in pythonpath( not my decision, but I got to work around it, bummer). So is there any easy way to do it? import sys, os sys.path.insert(0,os.path.abspath(relative path)) import module sys.path.remove(os.path.abspath(relative path)) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Seeking Python + Subversion hosting.
Tom Locke wrote: Hi, Anyone know of a good hosting company that offers both server-side Python and a subversion repository? With user-mode linux hosting you can have your own virtual root system with which you can run whatever python stuff you want as well as subversion or other server processes for about the price of standard shared (php+mysql) hosting. I picked this option so that for example I could run mod_python. The catch is that disk access is a little slower and RAM is more constricted, unless you pay for higher RAM. See: http://developers.coedit.net/UserModeLinux -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Time for : comp.lang.python.newbies ??
gmduncan wrote: Maybe a time for a new discussion group along that suggested by the Subject line ? http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor Or is their increasing presence here a price we must pay for their belated recognition of this wonderful language ? Don't forget the price we pay for not having a comp.lang.python.cynicaloldfarts -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
