Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Alex foo@email.invalid wrote: Ramchandra Apte wrote: On Saturday, 25 August 2012 04:03:52 UTC+5:30, Alex wrote: I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment with code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation width, sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. From what I've been able to find on Google, this is due to a shortcoming in Tk. While it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, I think it looks like poop, and I'd like to change IDLE to use 4-space indentation instead of tabs for all indentation levels. Is there any way for me to achieve what I want in IDLE, or do I have to start up my full-blown IDE if I want consistent 4-space indentation? Alex I think an IDE is better than IDLE. Try NINJA IDE. http://ninja-ide.org Agreed. I like PyDev in Eclipse, but sometimes I just want to try out something quick in the interpreter, to ensure I understand it or do a quick experiment. Since indentation is syntactically significant in Python, I think fixing the interpreter to produce good, readable, cut-and-pasteable, and Pythonic code is more important than a cosmetic feature, but less important than true bugs. -- Actually, if you're in PyDev/Eclipse already, you can just use the interactive shell that PyDev provides: http://pydev.org/manual_adv_interactive_console.html Cheers, Fabio -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
Fabio Zadrozny wrote: On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Alex foo@email.invalid wrote: Ramchandra Apte wrote: On Saturday, 25 August 2012 04:03:52 UTC+5:30, Alex wrote: I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment with code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation width, sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. From what I've been able to find on Google, this is due to a shortcoming in Tk. While it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, I think it looks like poop, and I'd like to change IDLE to use 4-space indentation instead of tabs for all indentation levels. Is there any way for me to achieve what I want in IDLE, or do I have to start up my full-blown IDE if I want consistent 4-space indentation? Alex I think an IDE is better than IDLE. Try NINJA IDE. http://ninja-ide.org Agreed. I like PyDev in Eclipse, but sometimes I just want to try out something quick in the interpreter, to ensure I understand it or do a quick experiment. Since indentation is syntactically significant in Python, I think fixing the interpreter to produce good, readable, cut-and-pasteable, and Pythonic code is more important than a cosmetic feature, but less important than true bugs. -- Actually, if you're in PyDev/Eclipse already, you can just use the interactive shell that PyDev provides: http://pydev.org/manual_adv_interactive_console.html Cheers, Fabio Awesome. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
Ramchandra Apte wrote: On Saturday, 25 August 2012 04:03:52 UTC+5:30, Alex wrote: I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment with code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation width, sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. From what I've been able to find on Google, this is due to a shortcoming in Tk. While it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, I think it looks like poop, and I'd like to change IDLE to use 4-space indentation instead of tabs for all indentation levels. Is there any way for me to achieve what I want in IDLE, or do I have to start up my full-blown IDE if I want consistent 4-space indentation? Alex I think an IDE is better than IDLE. Try NINJA IDE. http://ninja-ide.org Agreed. I like PyDev in Eclipse, but sometimes I just want to try out something quick in the interpreter, to ensure I understand it or do a quick experiment. Since indentation is syntactically significant in Python, I think fixing the interpreter to produce good, readable, cut-and-pasteable, and Pythonic code is more important than a cosmetic feature, but less important than true bugs. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
On Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:13:23 UTC+5:30, Alex wrote: Ramchandra Apte wrote: On Saturday, 25 August 2012 04:03:52 UTC+5:30, Alex wrote: I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment with code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation width, sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. From what I've been able to find on Google, this is due to a shortcoming in Tk. While it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, I think it looks like poop, and I'd like to change IDLE to use 4-space indentation instead of tabs for all indentation levels. Is there any way for me to achieve what I want in IDLE, or do I have to start up my full-blown IDE if I want consistent 4-space indentation? Alex I think an IDE is better than IDLE. Try NINJA IDE. http://ninja-ide.org Agreed. I like PyDev in Eclipse, but sometimes I just want to try out something quick in the interpreter, to ensure I understand it or do a quick experiment. Since indentation is syntactically significant in Python, I think fixing the interpreter to produce good, readable, cut-and-pasteable, and Pythonic code is more important than a cosmetic feature, but less important than true bugs. Agree. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
On 9/6/2012 9:43 AM, Alex wrote: On Saturday, 25 August 2012 04:03:52 UTC+5:30, Alex wrote: I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment with code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation width, sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. [snip] Agreed. I like PyDev in Eclipse, but sometimes I just want to try out something quick in the interpreter, to ensure I understand it or do a quick experiment. You have two choices that come with the distribution: the console and IDLE. I prefer IDLE. IPython and other shells and IDEs are other choices. Since indentation is syntactically significant in Python, I think fixing the interpreter to produce good, readable, cut-and-pasteable, and Pythonic code is more important than a cosmetic feature, but less important than true bugs. IDLE is not the interpreter. As I said before, the IDLE editor *already* does what you want. The IDLE Shell is intended mainly for single-line inputs. For compound statements, it does automatic indenting, unlike the console (at least not on Windows). It uses a tab to guarantee that the code is visually indented. It does not use secondary prompts because a) they would not line up anyway with proportional fonts and b) they would appear in cut and paste copies. This probably count be improved, and has been discussed, but someone has to volunteer to write a patch that shows that it can be improved without introducing negative consequences. I would test one if one appears. For more than a three-line compound statement, I use the editor with a scratchpad file where editing is *much* easier. If the compound statement is a class or function definition, you need more statements anyway to actually exercise the definition. Hitting F5 to run is as easy as putting the cursor at the end of the statement and hitting Enter. And it runs multiple statements at once, not just one. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
Terry Reedy wrote: [snip] IDLE is not the interpreter. Fine, I meant shell. Thanks for fixing that for me. The IDLE Shell is intended mainly for single-line inputs. Maybe it should be limited to that, then. That way stoopid noobs like me don't use it wrong and then use the wrong nomenclature to complain about it. For more than a three-line compound statement, I use the editor with a scratchpad file where editing is much easier. Great tip, thanks. That's how I'll do it from now on. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
On Saturday, 25 August 2012 04:03:52 UTC+5:30, Alex wrote: I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment with code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation width, sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. From what I've been able to find on Google, this is due to a shortcoming in Tk. While it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, I think it looks like poop, and I'd like to change IDLE to use 4-space indentation instead of tabs for all indentation levels. Is there any way for me to achieve what I want in IDLE, or do I have to start up my full-blown IDE if I want consistent 4-space indentation? Alex I think an IDE is better than IDLE. Try NINJA IDE. http://ninja-ide.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
On 8/24/2012 6:33 PM, Alex wrote: I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment with code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation That applies to the editor and works in the editor for me and others. A tab becomes 4 space characters, and a backspace in the appropriate place deletes 4 space characters. width, sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. Only for the simulated interpreter. There is a tracker issue about changing that but no consensus. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/24/2012 6:33 PM, Alex wrote: Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation ... sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. [The 4-space indentation setting] applies to the editor and works in the editor for me and others. [The width-8 tabs are inserted] Only for the simulated interpreter. There is a tracker issue about changing that but no consensus. Yes, it works in the editor. I was referring to the simulated interpreter. I guess I didn't make that clear. In my search for a solution, I did see some of the traffic regarding the tracker issue, but the posts were all several years old and I was hoping maybe there was a fix by now. I guess not. Maybe in Python 4, eh? Thanks. Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
On 25/08/2012 13:50, Alex wrote: Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/24/2012 6:33 PM, Alex wrote: Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation ... sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. [The 4-space indentation setting] applies to the editor and works in the editor for me and others. [The width-8 tabs are inserted] Only for the simulated interpreter. There is a tracker issue about changing that but no consensus. Yes, it works in the editor. I was referring to the simulated interpreter. I guess I didn't make that clear. In my search for a solution, I did see some of the traffic regarding the tracker issue, but the posts were all several years old and I was hoping maybe there was a fix by now. I guess not. Maybe in Python 4, eh? Thanks. Alex For the record issue 7676, yes? -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
Mark Lawrence wrote: On 25/08/2012 13:50, Alex wrote: Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/24/2012 6:33 PM, Alex wrote: Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation ... sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. [The 4-space indentation setting] applies to the editor and works in the editor for me and others. [The width-8 tabs are inserted] Only for the simulated interpreter. There is a tracker issue about changing that but no consensus. Yes, it works in the editor. I was referring to the simulated interpreter. I guess I didn't make that clear. In my search for a solution, I did see some of the traffic regarding the tracker issue, but the posts were all several years old and I was hoping maybe there was a fix by now. I guess not. Maybe in Python 4, eh? Thanks. Alex For the record issue 7676, yes? Yes, that appears to be the issue I was talking about and is, in fact, one of the threads I had looked at before posting here. Of course, I didn't pay enough attention to the dates. I see the most recent posting on the issue appears to have been made in January of this year, so I should have realized it's an ongoing issue. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
On 8/25/2012 10:17 AM, Alex wrote: Yes, that appears to be the issue I was talking about and is, in fact, one of the threads I had looked at before posting here. Of course, I didn't pay enough attention to the dates. I see the most recent posting on the issue appears to have been made in January of this year, so I should have realized it's an ongoing issue. There have also been a few posts this year on the idle-sig mail list. There are only a few people working on IDLE and we have concentrated this calendar year on fixing crashers, not semi-aesthetic issues. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs for indenting?
I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment with code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space indentation width, sometimes IDLE's smart indentation insists upon using width-8 tabs. From what I've been able to find on Google, this is due to a shortcoming in Tk. While it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, I think it looks like poop, and I'd like to change IDLE to use 4-space indentation instead of tabs for all indentation levels. Is there any way for me to achieve what I want in IDLE, or do I have to start up my full-blown IDE if I want consistent 4-space indentation? Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
