Re: Revision Control

[Roy Smith]

In article <499d5f0e$0$444$bf494...@news.tele2.nl>,
 Dikkie Dik  wrote:

> Funny how everybody is speaking about the ease of merging. It is the
> very least feature I have ever needed from source code control. 

It depends on what you're doing.  In a big commercial project, sometimes 
you don't have the luxury of just continuing to work on the latest.  You 
have to maintain multiple branches.  When big customers refuse to upgrade, 
you're stuck with maintaining old stuff, and then good merge tools become 
essential.
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Re: Revision Control

[Tim Chase]

FWIW, Bazaar and Mercurial both have about half a dozen C modules. (Most
of Bazaar's are Pyrex, though, not straight C.)


Thanks for the update -- it's been about 6 months since I played 
much with Bazaar.  Hopefully these C module help with some of the 
speed issues that plagued bzr in my past experimentations.



The next release of Mercurial will add support for running without them.
 (Bazaar already supports that, of course.)


Wonderful to hear...I'd love to be able to install mercurial on 
my web-host's machine, but it's currently not readily possible. 
A pure-python implementation (or at least fallback) will give me 
this option.


Thanks!

-tkc



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Re: Revision Control

[Scott David Daniels]

Dikkie Dik wrote:

Funny how everybody is speaking about the ease of merging. It is the
very least feature I have ever needed from source code control


Ah yes, but with a distributed VCS, merging becomes _much_ more common.
The model is developers pull, develop (checking in frequently), and
merge back.  Most checkins to the central repository _are_ merges.
That is why everyone talks about merge speed.

--Scott David Daniels
scott.dani...@acm.org

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Re: Revision Control

[Dikkie Dik]

Funny how everybody is speaking about the ease of merging. It is the
very least feature I have ever needed from source code control. Most
version control system are really brilliant in creating a version mess
of intertwined branches, but off course I use version control to
*PREVENT* such a mess. So I really would like better linking
possibilities to other projects or standard libraries. That said:

- MS-Source-Safe did a great job here. But I stopped using it after
version 6.0. The linking feature of VSS was great, but the stability of
VSS was awful.

- CVS is a hell. Only administrators seem to be able to create a link.

- Linking is subversion is not exactly user-friendly, but it "kinda"
works. See
http://www.howtoforge.org/set-up-a-modular-svn-repository-for-php-websites
for how I managed to do so with PHP. I don't have a real Python library
yet, but I would use it the same way. Also, the latest subversion should
support relative links.

- I have no experience with mercurial.

- I searched through the documentation of git and bzr, and could not
find much.

If anyone has more info on linking with Mercurial, bzr or git, please
share it!
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Re: Revision Control

[Matt Nordhoff]

Tim Chase wrote:



>> -Mercurial (this is a big up and coming RCS)
> 
> This is currently my favorite:  good branching/merging, fast, written
> mostly in Python (one C extension module, IIRC), and a simple interface
> 
>> -Bazaar (written in Python. Also pretty new. I don't know about Windows
>> support)
> 
> I like Bazaar (bzr), but the last several times I've tried it, it's been
> a little slow.  This has been steadily improving, and I like their
> emphasis on correctness foremost.  It's a lot like mercurial, but is
> pure python (no C extension module) which makes it nice to deploy into
> environments such as my shared web-hosting service where I can't build
> extension C modules or install packages such as hg/git/svn from the
> repository.

FWIW, Bazaar and Mercurial both have about half a dozen C modules. (Most
of Bazaar's are Pyrex, though, not straight C.)

The next release of Mercurial will add support for running without them.
 (Bazaar already supports that, of course.)


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Re: Revision Control

[Tim Wintle]

On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 09:08 -0800, Sam Clark wrote:
> Any suggestions for a beginer on what to use for version control?
> It's just me, the lone person programming.  I've already nailed one
> "version" of my code accidentaly.  MS VSS is too expensive for the
> stuff I'm doing, plus I really don't like MS much...  Any free open
> source stuff out there?

I use svn (subversion) at work and it works fine, but I'm using bazaar
 on my own code, and even alongside svn to help
with merging branches, porting code up-stream etc.

bazaar is really great in my experience, although relatively new so you
might prefer to stick to svn. I haven't tried using bazaar on windows.


If you do go with svn, try the latest version, since merging support is
much better in this.


Tim


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Re: Revision Control

[Tim Chase]

-CVS (One of the first RCS, I think most projects are moving away from this
one.)


I wouldn't suggest starting a new project with CVS.  Subversion 
(svn) resolves several of the main issues with it, so using SVN 
instead wins over CVS in just about every possible way.



- Subversion-(pretty popular right now, but it is a client/server model.)


A good solid & popular choice, but the merging capabilities are a 
bit weak (the latest version just added some better capabilities 
for branching/merging, but it's a bit of a hack).  It's also not 
the most efficient storage -- git and mercurial (hg) both have 
very efficient repository structures compared to SVN.  The family 
DVCS tools (git, mercurial, bzr, darcs) are stronger in this 
area.  My employer uses SVN for their primary repository. 
Documentation is outstandingly good (documentation for the others 
is also good, but SVN's is exceptional).



-Git (originally created for Linux and now used by several very large
projects)


I've tried several times to like git -- some folks swear by it. 
The Win32 support has been a bit wanting, but growing.  I find it 
a bit more complex but it's certainly not lacking for power. 
I'll continue to try it occasionally to see if it meets my needs 
better than Mercurial



-Mercurial (this is a big up and coming RCS)


This is currently my favorite:  good branching/merging, fast, 
written mostly in Python (one C extension module, IIRC), and a 
simple interface



-Bazaar (written in Python. Also pretty new. I don't know about Windows
support)


I like Bazaar (bzr), but the last several times I've tried it, 
it's been a little slow.  This has been steadily improving, and I 
like their emphasis on correctness foremost.  It's a lot like 
mercurial, but is pure python (no C extension module) which makes 
it nice to deploy into environments such as my shared web-hosting 
service where I can't build extension C modules or install 
packages such as hg/git/svn from the repository.


All of them have GUI interfaces if you need, but I tend to just 
use them from the command-line.  For most of them, you can get by 
with a handful of commands without needing to learn every last 
corner.


For what you (the OP) describe, I'd suggest SVN, Mercurial, or 
Bazaar as they're a little easier to wrap your head around -- SVN 
wins for documentation, Mercurial wins for speed and merging, and 
Bazaar wins for portability and merging.  Git would win for sheer 
power, but if you're just beginning, I'd skip it for now.


-tkc








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Re: Revision Control

[skip]

>> Any suggestions for a beginer on what to use for version control?

Chris> I like Mercurial (hg) personally...

Me too.  It's perfect for little one-person things.  (It's probably good for
other stuff as well, but I certainly like how easy it is to use for
standalone stuff.)

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Re: Revision Control

[Benjamin Kaplan]

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Sam Clark  wrote:

>  Any suggestions for a beginer on what to use for version control?   It's
> just me, the lone person programming.  I've already nailed one "version" of
> my code accidentaly.  MS VSS is too expensive for the stuff I'm doing, plus
> I really don't like MS much...  Any free open source stuff out there?
>

There's actually a lot of them. These are just the ones I can think of off
the top of my head.
-CVS (One of the first RCS, I think most projects are moving away from this
one.)
- Subversion-(pretty popular right now, but it is a client/server model.)
-Git (originally created for Linux and now used by several very large
projects)
-Mercurial (this is a big up and coming RCS)
-Bazaar (written in Python. Also pretty new. I don't know about Windows
support)

I have some experience with both Subversion and Mercurial and like them
both. Since you're working alone, you'll probably want a distributed rcs,
such as Mercurial, Git, and Bazaar, which allow you to do more stuff locally
rather than on a central server. Like Chris, I'd suggest Mercurial
especially if you're using Windows.


Thank you,
>
> Sam Clark
> s...@2000soft.com
>
>
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>
>
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Re: Revision Control

[Chris Rebert]

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Sam Clark  wrote:
> Any suggestions for a beginer on what to use for version control?   It's
> just me, the lone person programming.  I've already nailed one "version" of
> my code accidentaly.  MS VSS is too expensive for the stuff I'm doing, plus
> I really don't like MS much...  Any free open source stuff out there?

I like Mercurial (hg) personally: http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/
It's written in Python, works well on Windows, is a modern distributed
VCS, and is simpler than Git.

Cheers,
Chris

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