Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
Bloody hell! This is the most persistent troll I've seen to date. He expected to get a raging army of pythoners after him, but people are just laughing at him. This is a mailing list, not a novel, so colloquialisms are welcome. The language on a mailing list should be informal and not necessarily grammatically correct. Sigmund -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: These specific phrases i have pointed out (used to and supposed to) are a result of a mind choosing the easy way out instead of putting in the wee bit more effort required to express one's self in an articulate manner. Also these two phrases are quite prolifically used within his community (among others), from the BDFL on down. All the way down indeed. Can you pick who said these? There are noobs watching and we to provide code that can be used to teach! And just what *point* an i supposed to be getting Stephen? An end user should NEVER EVER have to write glue code so their abstraction of choice can be used to to script an API. (For bonus points: can you also spot who is bored at work today?) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Aug 16, 2:07 am, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote: All the way down indeed. Can you pick who said these? Obviously your grep skills are superb however you need to brush up on those reading and comprehension skills a bit. There are noobs watching and we to provide code that can be used to teach! Yes i said this, however the use of used to is proper here. -1 And just what *point* an i supposed to be getting Stephen? Yes i said this, and it may seem that you have me on this one however i believe that Stephen had said something like you are supposed to blah, blah and i retorted with oh, and just what *point* am i supposed to blah blah blah... although i DID forget to quote supposed to, still it's a -1. An end user should NEVER EVER have to write glue code so their abstraction of choice can be used to to script an API. Yes i said this, however AGAIN the use of used to is proper here. -1. sorry alex, better luck next time :(. Follows is some homework i have prepared for you so that you can understand the proper and improper usage of used to. Incorrect past tense usage of used to: I used to wear wooden shoes Incorrect description using used to: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes Correct usage of used to: Wooden shoes can be used to torture someone For our next assignment we'll be learning about the exploits of Jack and Jill. (For bonus points: can you also spot who is bored at work today?) Trolling doesn't count as work unless you're being paid for it, however some people might consider you a pro by now! PS: Does anyone notice how Stephen has fallen off the face the earth? Where is Stephen i wonder? He was such a vocal nuisance and then he just disappeared. It seemed like he appeared as strangely as he disappeared. Well, he's probably where most sock puppets go when they have no further usage. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
Incorrect past tense usage of used to: I used to wear wooden shoes Incorrect description using used to: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes Correct usage of used to: Wooden shoes can be used to torture someone Double you tee eff? Maybe this is a cultural language difference, but I believe all of the above are correct. Well, I am not sure about the middle one but the other two are valid. http://www.englishgrammarsecrets.com/usedto/menu.php http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/usedto.html http://www.5minuteenglish.com/mar20.htm http://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/usedtotext.htm http://www.thefreedictionary.com/used+to http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-m_used-to-do.htm Ramit P.S. Please CC me on any reply. Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology 712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002 work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423 -Original Message- From: python-list-bounces+ramit.prasad=jpmorgan@python.org [mailto:python-list-bounces+ramit.prasad=jpmorgan@python.org] On Behalf Of rantingrick Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 10:06 AM To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member. On Aug 16, 2:07 am, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote: All the way down indeed. Can you pick who said these? Obviously your grep skills are superb however you need to brush up on those reading and comprehension skills a bit. There are noobs watching and we to provide code that can be used to teach! Yes i said this, however the use of used to is proper here. -1 And just what *point* an i supposed to be getting Stephen? Yes i said this, and it may seem that you have me on this one however i believe that Stephen had said something like you are supposed to blah, blah and i retorted with oh, and just what *point* am i supposed to blah blah blah... although i DID forget to quote supposed to, still it's a -1. An end user should NEVER EVER have to write glue code so their abstraction of choice can be used to to script an API. Yes i said this, however AGAIN the use of used to is proper here. -1. sorry alex, better luck next time :(. Follows is some homework i have prepared for you so that you can understand the proper and improper usage of used to. For our next assignment we'll be learning about the exploits of Jack and Jill. (For bonus points: can you also spot who is bored at work today?) Trolling doesn't count as work unless you're being paid for it, however some people might consider you a pro by now! PS: Does anyone notice how Stephen has fallen off the face the earth? Where is Stephen i wonder? He was such a vocal nuisance and then he just disappeared. It seemed like he appeared as strangely as he disappeared. Well, he's probably where most sock puppets go when they have no further usage. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 16/08/2011 18:51, Prasad, Ramit wrote: Incorrect past tense usage of used to: I used to wear wooden shoes Incorrect description using used to: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes Correct usage of used to: Wooden shoes can be used to torture someone Double you tee eff? Maybe this is a cultural language difference, but I believe all of the above are correct. Well, I am not sure about the middle one but the other two are valid. Well admittedly English isn't my native language, But indeed all sentences seem correct to me. With the first sentence meaning: in the past I wore wooden shoes, but presently I do not. With the second sentence meaning: in the past I was not used to (i.e. uncomfortable, hey bonus points!) wearing wooden shoes, but presently I am used to it (although not necessarily comfortable, but at least not uncomfortable). I actually can't figure out a way of saying those two sentences more concise or correct then it has been given. But then again I do recognize that these are quite 'Germanic'* ways of constructing sentences, as in freely mixing past, present and future to indicate that a certain description is restricted to a specific time frame. * For the lack of a better description, I am not a linguist, but I was born in Germany and I am often guilty of mixing times. Also RR, congratualation to another troll post that turned out quite interesting :-) -- mph -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Martin P. Hellwig martin.hell...@butterfly.uk.com wrote: With the second sentence meaning: in the past I was not used to (i.e. uncomfortable, hey bonus points!) wearing wooden shoes, but presently I am used to it (although not necessarily comfortable, but at least not uncomfortable). This usage can also be seen in a more archaic form, such as this example from WS Gilbert's The Yeomen of the Guard (which, as it happens, I'm presently in rehearsal of): Lieutenant: I see. I think that manner of thing would be somewhat irritating. Jack: At first, sir, perhaps; but use is everything, and you would come in time to like it. We would be more inclined to say You'd get used to it. I don't see that this usage (heh) should be considered in any way wrong. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 16/08/2011 19:37, Martin P. Hellwig wrote: On 16/08/2011 18:51, Prasad, Ramit wrote: Incorrect past tense usage of used to: I used to wear wooden shoes Incorrect description using used to: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes Correct usage of used to: Wooden shoes can be used to torture someone Double you tee eff? Maybe this is a cultural language difference, but I believe all of the above are correct. Well, I am not sure about the middle one but the other two are valid. Well admittedly English isn't my native language, But indeed all sentences seem correct to me. English _is_ my native language, and I agree with you. With the first sentence meaning: in the past I wore wooden shoes, but presently I do not. Correct. With the second sentence meaning: in the past I was not used to (i.e. uncomfortable, hey bonus points!) wearing wooden shoes, but presently I am used to it (although not necessarily comfortable, but at least not uncomfortable). Correct. I actually can't figure out a way of saying those two sentences more concise or correct then it has been given. But then again I do recognize that these are quite 'Germanic'* ways of constructing sentences, as in freely mixing past, present and future to indicate that a certain description is restricted to a specific time frame. * For the lack of a better description, I am not a linguist, but I was born in Germany and I am often guilty of mixing times. Also RR, congratualation to another troll post that turned out quite interesting :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Aug 16, 1:37 pm, Martin P. Hellwig martin.hell...@gmail.com wrote: Well admittedly English isn't my native language, But indeed all sentences seem correct to me. With the first sentence meaning: in the past I wore wooden shoes, but presently I do not. With the second sentence meaning: in the past I was not used to (i.e. uncomfortable, hey bonus points!) wearing wooden shoes, but presently I am used to it (although not necessarily comfortable, but at least not uncomfortable). I actually can't figure out a way of saying those two sentences more concise or correct then it has been given. If conciseness is all you seek then perhaps you prefer the following? ORIGINAL: I used to wear wooden shoes CONCISE: I wore wooden shoes I wore wood shoes Iwood shoes ORIGINAL: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes CONCISE: I like wearing wooden shoes I like wooden shoes I like wood shoes wood shoes: +1 However as you can see much of the rich information is missing. Good communication requires that we use clear and articulate words (and phrases) that will re-create a similar thought (if not perfect clone of!) in the mind of your listener[s]. Of course we should never seek to be overly elaborate and ornate in our speech unless that is the point (As in poetry, philosophy, and music which are elaborate and ornate for good reason!). Likewise we should never seek to be overtly simplistic and dull with our speech. (As in txt speak which is too simplistic and dull for intelligent conversation but it has a niche appeal among the children and idiots) Think of speaking with articulation as an extension of your body image GO==GI[1]: You put in too much effort and you become a disgustingly self gratifying gorilla strutting on the stage of bombast-ity flexing and posing whist your skin glistens from the oils of your own mental masturbation. Likewise, if you put in too little effort you become a disgustingly self gratifying couch potato consumed by lethargy and atherosclerosis completely covered with the crumbs of your own mental refuse. It would be wise (my friend) to find a happy medium. [1] Garbage Out equals Garbage In(ternally) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT), rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: If conciseness is all you seek then perhaps you prefer the following? ORIGINAL: I used to wear wooden shoes CONCISE: I wore wooden shoes ORIGINAL: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes CONCISE: I like wearing wooden shoes However as you can see much of the rich information is missing. Indeed. Neither of your two concise examples has the same meaning of the originals. Good communication requires that we use clear and articulate words (and phrases) that will re-create a similar thought (if not perfect clone of!) in the mind of your listener[s]. Different phrasings of all but the most basic sentences often have subtle differences of meaning which native speakers intend and understand. 1984 has been and gone. Shame on you! DaveM -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Aug 16, 4:55 pm, David Monaghan monaghand.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT), rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: If conciseness is all you seek then perhaps you prefer the following? ORIGINAL: I used to wear wooden shoes CONCISE: I wore wooden shoes ORIGINAL: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes CONCISE: I like wearing wooden shoes However as you can see much of the rich information is missing. Indeed. Neither of your two concise examples has the same meaning of the originals. Really? Are you sure? ORIGINAL1: I used to wear wooden shoes CONCISE_1a: I wore wooden shoes the word wore is past tense and can be replaced with the past tense phrase of used to wear without changing any meaning whatsoever -- albeit the latter is childish! CONCISE_1b: I wore wood shoes Wooden = object made of wood = flesh of a tree Wood = the flesh of a tree Completely interchangeable! CONCISE_1c: Iwood shoes Considering that I is an object that has overloaded the left shift operator with an instance method to append a single argument (in this case wood shoes) to instance I's feet. Obviously if an object didn't like wooden shoes it would not have a method that accepts them... yeah it's a bit of a stretch, but not so much that it's impossible to comprehend! ORIGINAL_2: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes CONCISE_2a: I like wearing wooden shoes the word like is a positive present tense inflection of emotion as it regards to wooden shoes; as is the phrase become used to -- albeit the latter is childish. CONCISE_2b: I like wooden shoes If you like wooden shoes it's only natural to assume that you would wear them. CONCISE_2c: I like wood shoes Wood, Wooden, we've been here before. CONCISE_2d: wood shoes: +1 Since the fact about wearing them can go without being said, you get the picture... although this too is a stretch, but not impossible! Different phrasings of all but the most basic sentences often have subtle differences of meaning which native speakers intend and understand. 1984 has been and gone. Shame on you! Guido himself admitted that hidden descriptors are real. The inception has begun! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
In d577aa97-84f1-48ac-91fd-4355059ca...@f7g2000vba.googlegroups.com rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com writes: ORIGINAL1: I used to wear wooden shoes CONCISE_1a: I wore wooden shoes wore does not convey the same meaning as used to wear. wore means you have worn them in the past. used to wear means you have worn them in the past AND don't intend to do so again. -- John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs gor...@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears -- Edward Gorey, The Gashlycrumb Tinies -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 16:12:53 -0700 (PDT), rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 16, 4:55 pm, David Monaghan monaghand.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT), rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: If conciseness is all you seek then perhaps you prefer the following? ORIGINAL: I used to wear wooden shoes CONCISE: I wore wooden shoes ORIGINAL: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes CONCISE: I like wearing wooden shoes However as you can see much of the rich information is missing. Indeed. Neither of your two concise examples has the same meaning of the originals. Really? Are you sure? Yes. ORIGINAL1: I used to wear wooden shoes There's an implicit corollary to this sentence: ...but I don't any more, which is missing from your concise sentence: CONCISE_1a: I wore wooden shoes ORIGINAL_2: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes This carries the meaning, I wasn't always comfortable/accustomed to wearing wooden shoes, but I am now. This is a totally different meaning from: CONCISE_2a: I like wearing wooden shoes which refers only to the present and is much more positive. In fact, now I consider it, these examples are so clearly different that you can't be a native English speaker. Either that, or I've just fed a troll. Damn. DaveM -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Aug 16, 6:25 pm, John Gordon gor...@panix.com wrote: In d577aa97-84f1-48ac-91fd-4355059ca...@f7g2000vba.googlegroups.com rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com writes: ORIGINAL1: I used to wear wooden shoes CONCISE_1a: I wore wooden shoes wore does not convey the same meaning as used to wear. wore means you have worn them in the past. used to wear means you have worn them in the past AND don't intend to do so again. Actually that assertion is wrong. Take (in the extreme example) that you were (in the past) forced to wear a tutu. You did not like wearing the tutu but someone put a gun to your head, so you did it. Now. If later someone asks you Have you ever been forced to wear anything you did not like? and you replied Yes, i wore a tutu [once], there is no way anyone could extrapolate from that statement whether or not you would NEVER wear a tutu again. So the moral is: Just because something happened in the past does not mean it will happen in the future. The fact remains that wore and used to wear both compile down to the same past tense event HOWEVER neither have the capacity to predict future events. No one can predict the future. Not even YOU can predict whether or not you will wear a tutu again. You may say you would never wear a tutu again however you can NEVER be sure about that statement without a time machine, and lots of free time. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
In ef0722a3-59ff-4fc3-87a9-e637ce9e2...@en1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com writes: wore means you have worn them in the past. used to wear means you have worn them in the past AND don't intend to do so again. Actually that assertion is wrong. No one can predict the future. Not even YOU can predict whether or not Of course -- that's why the word intend was part of my answer. Did you overlook that crucial word? I stand by my assertion that the phrase I used to do X carries the meaning that you have done X in the past but DO NOT INTEND to do so in the future. -- John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs gor...@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears -- Edward Gorey, The Gashlycrumb Tinies -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 08/16/2011 07:33 PM, John Gordon wrote: I stand by my assertion that the phrase I used to do X carries the meaning that you have done X in the past but DO NOT INTEND to do so in the future. I'd tweak the meaning to be something like I did X regularly in the past and I no longer do it regularly. E.g. I used to drink a lot of cranberry juice[*] connotes that I drank it regularly, but no longer drink it regularly, even though I might still drink it occasionally. But on the whole, I side with John far more than I side with RR on the issue. -tkc [*] seriously, in college I managed to put away over a gal/day. Ah, to be young again and have an unlimited cafeteria food-plan. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com wrote: On 08/16/2011 07:33 PM, John Gordon wrote: I stand by my assertion that the phrase I used to do X carries the meaning that you have done X in the past but DO NOT INTEND to do so in the future. I'd tweak the meaning to be something like I did X regularly in the past and I no longer do it regularly. E.g. I used to drink a lot of cranberry juice[*] connotes that I drank it regularly, but no longer drink it regularly, even though I might still drink it occasionally. But on the whole, I side with John far more than I side with RR on the issue. There is a difference between I used to drink cranberry juice and I used to drink a lot of cranberry juice. The first says that you no longer drink it at all, while the latter has quantified the statement to say you may still drink it occasionally, but less than you used to. The key is that a lot quantifies drink in the second statement. -tkc [*] seriously, in college I managed to put away over a gal/day. Ah, to be young again and have an unlimited cafeteria food-plan. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
David Monaghan wrote: On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT), rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: If conciseness is all you seek then perhaps you prefer the following? ORIGINAL: I used to wear wooden shoes CONCISE: I wore wooden shoes ORIGINAL: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes CONCISE: I like wearing wooden shoes However as you can see much of the rich information is missing. Indeed. Neither of your two concise examples has the same meaning of the originals. The second one is considerably different. Consider: I have become used to getting up at 3am to be flogged for an hour by my boss. Between the sleep deprivation and the scar tissue on my back, I hardly feel a thing any more. versus I like getting up at 3am to be flogged for an hour by my boss. I get all tingly in my man-bits, if you know what I mean. The first case is more subtle. The implication of I used to wear... is that you did back in the past, but no longer do, while I wore... has no such implication. It merely says that in the past you did this, whether you still do or don't is irrelevant. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Aug 16, 7:33 pm, John Gordon gor...@panix.com wrote: In ef0722a3-59ff-4fc3-87a9-e637ce9e2...@en1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com writes: wore means you have worn them in the past. used to wear means you have worn them in the past AND don't intend to do so again. Actually that assertion is wrong. No one can predict the future. Not even YOU can predict whether or not Of course -- that's why the word intend was part of my answer. Did you overlook that crucial word? I stand by my assertion that the phrase I used to do X carries the meaning that you have done X in the past but DO NOT INTEND to do so in the future. Okay and i'm with you as long as you'll also agree that i wore wooden shoes carries the meaning that i've worn shoes in the past but gives no indication that i will wear shoes again. And if you agree with that (which is a fact BTW) then you must also agree that i used to wear wear wooden shoes also gives no guarantee that i won't wear them again. This point i have been trying to make all along is: Speaking with this verbiage leaves to much to be desired. To much meaning is specific *only* to the sender and prone to cause subtle errors upon receiving due to errors of the lost-in-translation kind. We must remove these ambiguities from our speech and from our code if we ever expect to evolve into a species capable of taking the next logical step in our evolution. That step will require massive amounts of coherent and articulate collaboration across many cultures. How do solve that problem you ask? By removing all cultures and joining the culture of Mankind. We know that knowledge is being spread far and wide and to every corner of this planet. No one will ever be robbed of an education because all the knowledge is being cataloged in the world wide library (WWW). A person living in a mud hut in Africa has the same access to the knowledge base as a professor working at a prestigious college. No more will the class structure be relevant because knowledge IS power. The playing fields are beginning to be leveled and the world is on course for a huge shake up soon. How soon this event will culminate into reality is yet to be known however i can assure you people that at our current rate, sadly it is going to be a very long time! The transition is not evolving as fast as it should be because we refuse to eradicate the enormous amounts of multiplicity that plague our knowledge bases. Language is one of the top offenders, which manifest itself over and over like a stupidity virus; and the worst part is that it shows no readily perceivable symptoms to the zombie masses! These masses of hosts continue on day after day infecting new people with this disease of multi-language-ism and as such entropy grows. Leaps are made but then setbacks are certain due to entropy. On and on we continue to be slung back and forth due to this elastic rubber band of stupidity. Some folks get emotional when i speak of these things. They confuse multiplicity with freedom. They fear the loss of their freedom to be lazy, slothful, and stupid. Yes you have a right to be these things if you want, but don't be expecting that your gene-pool will be part of the future because you will be bred out of existence! The future belongs to the intelligent agents capable of eradicating multiplicity and harnessing what mother nature could never harness with billions and billions of years built on innumerable random guesses... the future belongs to those with an IMAGINATION! An imagination is the most power tool we posses. With imagination we can drive evolution. Without imagination nothing you see or know would exist. We would be caught forever in the infinite loop of ape-ian stupidity and left to wither as just a blip on the evolutionary radar. With our imagination we can not only harness our world but also our universe (which is far more expansive than we have yet to realize). We can even harness evolution itself! We can transcend the flesh, and then, THEN... we shall take our rightful place as the gods! Maybe there is even an evolution of the gods of which replacements are created every trillion or so years. We are next in line to replace the aging gods that now control the known universe. To continue to deny that we are natures greatest creation would be tantamount to bitch slapping our very own mothers. Instead we should make her proud by being all that we can be and using our intelligence to utterly destroy her and IN EFFECT become something greater in the process than we ever where before. Progress progresses by the prodigy standing on the shoulders of the creators to reach that next higher cookie jar. The future is not saving the whales or the dolphins, or the endangered three toed alligator. Neither is the future save the earth. The future is transcendence from the flesh into a new state of being. No form of matter how well we maintain this earth, one day the sun will consume
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: David Monaghan wrote: On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT), rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: If conciseness is all you seek then perhaps you prefer the following? ORIGINAL: I used to wear wooden shoes CONCISE: I wore wooden shoes ORIGINAL: I have become used to wearing wooden shoes CONCISE: I like wearing wooden shoes However as you can see much of the rich information is missing. Indeed. Neither of your two concise examples has the same meaning of the originals. The second one is considerably different. Consider: I have become used to getting up at 3am to be flogged for an hour by my boss. Between the sleep deprivation and the scar tissue on my back, I hardly feel a thing any more. versus I like getting up at 3am to be flogged for an hour by my boss. I get all tingly in my man-bits, if you know what I mean. The first case is more subtle. The implication of I used to wear... is that you did back in the past, but no longer do, while I wore... has no such implication. It merely says that in the past you did this, whether you still do or don't is irrelevant. Meh. We can come up with examples all over the place to support any of our assertions. The context is what matters. In a newspaper article, you'd often prefer to use The president wore shoes to The president used to wear shoes because the extra words and space make a difference, and you want to be concise while letting people know what happened. In a public forum catering to native and non-native English speakers alike, common phrases like used to and supposed to are well known and understood. As such, I argue they are supposed to be used (to) often. In such circumstances as these, I say keep your language concise and simple, and your words will reach the most people (and the fewest killfiles, perhaps). As the wise man says, It's not only quiet people that don't say much. (And here RR joins his silent majority). Peace, Jason -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 2011-08-14, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Irmen de Jong irmen.nos...@xs4all.nl wrote: On 14-8-2011 7:57, rantingrick wrote: 8. Use e.g. as many times as you can! (e.g. e.g.) If you use e.g. more than ten times in a single post, you will get an invite to Guido's next birthday party; where you'll be forced to do shots whist walking the balcony railing wearing wooden shoes! I lolled about this one, e.g. I laughed out loud. But where are the tulips and windmills for extra credit? Greetings from a Dutchman! No credit. E.g., i.e., exampla gratis, means, for example. -- Neil Cerutti -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Neil Cerutti ne...@norwich.edu wrote:
On 2011-08-14, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Irmen de Jong irmen.nos...@xs4all.nl
wrote:
On 14-8-2011 7:57, rantingrick wrote:
8. Use e.g. as many times as you can! (e.g. e.g.) If you use e.g.
more than ten times in a single post, you will get an invite to
Guido's next birthday party; where you'll be forced to do shots whist
walking the balcony railing wearing wooden shoes!
I lolled about this one, e.g. I laughed out loud. But where
are the tulips and windmills for extra credit?
Greetings from a Dutchman!
No credit. E.g., i.e., exampla gratis, means, for example.
The correct spelling is 'exempli gratia'. It's Latin.
i.e., on the other hand, comes from 'id est' ('that is'). Latin too.
Regards,
Lucio
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 15/08/2011 17:18, Lucio Santi wrote:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Neil Cerutti ne...@norwich.edu
mailto:ne...@norwich.edu wrote:
On 2011-08-14, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com
mailto:ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Irmen de Jong
irmen.nos...@xs4all.nl mailto:irmen.nos...@xs4all.nl wrote:
On 14-8-2011 7:57, rantingrick wrote:
8. Use e.g. as many times as you can! (e.g. e.g.) If you use
e.g.
more than ten times in a single post, you will get an invite to
Guido's next birthday party; where you'll be forced to do shots
whist
walking the balcony railing wearing wooden shoes!
I lolled about this one, e.g. I laughed out loud. But where
are the tulips and windmills for extra credit?
Greetings from a Dutchman!
No credit. E.g., i.e., exampla gratis, means, for example.
The correct spelling is 'exempli gratia'. It's Latin.
i.e., on the other hand, comes from 'id est' ('that is'). Latin too.
I remember reading a book about polymorphism in programming. The author
said
it came from Latin. Nope.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 2011-08-15, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote:
On 15/08/2011 17:18, Lucio Santi wrote:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Neil Cerutti ne...@norwich.edu
mailto:ne...@norwich.edu wrote:
On 2011-08-14, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com
mailto:ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Irmen de Jong
irmen.nos...@xs4all.nl mailto:irmen.nos...@xs4all.nl wrote:
On 14-8-2011 7:57, rantingrick wrote:
8. Use e.g. as many times as you can! (e.g. e.g.) If you use
e.g.
more than ten times in a single post, you will get an invite to
Guido's next birthday party; where you'll be forced to do shots
whist
walking the balcony railing wearing wooden shoes!
I lolled about this one, e.g. I laughed out loud. But where
are the tulips and windmills for extra credit?
Greetings from a Dutchman!
No credit. E.g., i.e., exampla gratis, means, for example.
The correct spelling is 'exempli gratia'. It's Latin.
Thanks for the correction.
i.e., on the other hand, comes from 'id est' ('that is').
Latin too.
I remember reading a book about polymorphism in programming.
The author said it came from Latin. Nope.
Sounds more like Greek.
--
Neil Cerutti
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
rantingrick wrote: Used to and supposed to is the verbiage of children and idiots. So when we reach a certain age we're meant to abandon short, concise and idomatic ways of speaking, and substitute long words and phrases to make ourselves sound adult and educated? -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
I don't mind people using e.g. and i.e. as long as they use them *correctly*. Many times people use i.e. when they really mean e.g. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
In article 9att2bf71...@mid.individual.net, Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: rantingrick wrote: Used to and supposed to is the verbiage of children and idiots. So when we reach a certain age we're meant to abandon short, concise and idomatic ways of speaking, and substitute long words and phrases to make ourselves sound adult and educated? Yup. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:48 am Gregory Ewing wrote: rantingrick wrote: Used to and supposed to is the verbiage of children and idiots. So when we reach a certain age we're meant to abandon short, concise and idomatic ways of speaking, and substitute long words and phrases to make ourselves sound adult and educated? Say what? Used to isn't idiom. It is grammatical English. Avoidance of used to is a hyper-correction done by people who don't know as much about English as they think, like the grammar policeman let Johnny and I off with a warning, perhaps the most widespread hyper-correction in English. (If you take Johnny out of the picture, the policeman let I off with a warning... which is obviously wrong. Whether Johnny was there or not, the policeman let *me* off with a warning.) Used to is unexceptional English: http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/usedto.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/youmeus/quiznet/newquiz114.shtml http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-m_used-to-do.htm http://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/usedtotext2.htm Any-grammatical-errors-are-deliberate-ly y'rs, -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 16/08/2011 01:52, Gregory Ewing wrote: I don't mind people using e.g. and i.e. as long as they use them *correctly*. Many times people use i.e. when they really mean e.g. Can you give me an example? :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
In article 9att9mf71...@mid.individual.net, Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: I don't mind people using e.g. and i.e. as long as they use them *correctly*. The only correct way to use i.e. is to use it to download a better browser. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 2011-08-16, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote: In article 9att9mf71...@mid.individual.net, Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: I don't mind people using e.g. and i.e. as long as they use them *correctly*. The only correct way to use i.e. is to use it to download a better browser. Similarly: Boy, is there, e.g., on my face now! -s -- Copyright 2011, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nos...@seebs.net http://www.seebs.net/log/ -- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) -- get educated! I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Aug 15, 7:48 pm, Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: rantingrick wrote: Used to and supposed to is the verbiage of children and idiots. So when we reach a certain age we're meant to abandon short, concise and idomatic ways of speaking, and substitute long words and phrases to make ourselves sound adult and educated? Well that is the idea anyway. Not that we should be overly pedantic about it of course, however some words need to be cast off before we leave the primary school playground in the name of articulate communication. These specific phrases i have pointed out (used to and supposed to) are a result of a mind choosing the easy way out instead of putting in the wee bit more effort required to express one's self in an articulate manner. Also these two phrases are quite prolifically used within his community (among others), from the BDFL on down. It's a slippery slope my friend. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 2011.08.14 12:57 AM, rantingrick wrote: Follow these simply rules to become an accepted member of the Python community. Sounds good. You should consider submitting this as a PEP. -- CPython 3.2.1 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17592 | Thunderbird 5.0 PGP/GPG Public Key ID: 0xF88E034060A78FCB -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 2011-08-14, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: Follow these simply rules to become an accepted member of the Python community. 1. Bash rantingrick and Xah Lee every chance you get. ... If I'd known you were in the same category as him, I wouldn't have needed to wait until now to know to plonk you. -s -- Copyright 2011, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nos...@seebs.net http://www.seebs.net/log/ -- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) -- get educated! I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 02:54:44 -0500, Andrew Berg wrote: On 2011.08.14 12:57 AM, rantingrick wrote: Follow these simply rules to become an accepted member of the Python community. Sounds good. You should consider submitting this as a PEP. That would mark the first constructive action from rantingnick ever Surely that would mark the end of the sentient universe? -- The deafening silence taught me not to ask a bunch of geeks for advice from their girlfriends -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Alister Ware alister.w...@ntlworld.com wrote: That would mark the first constructive action from rantingnick ever Surely that would mark the end of the sentient universe? Only if he actually did it. Many's the time people have called for him to write a PEP, or (better still) to write some actual code. Unless, as seems likely, Ranting Rick is not his real name, I do not know that he has ever done so. (What sort of mother names her son Ranting Rick, anyway?) ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 14-8-2011 7:57, rantingrick wrote: 8. Use e.g. as many times as you can! (e.g. e.g.) If you use e.g. more than ten times in a single post, you will get an invite to Guido's next birthday party; where you'll be forced to do shots whist walking the balcony railing wearing wooden shoes! I lolled about this one, e.g. I laughed out loud. But where are the tulips and windmills for extra credit? Greetings from a Dutchman! Irmen -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Irmen de Jong irmen.nos...@xs4all.nl wrote: On 14-8-2011 7:57, rantingrick wrote: 8. Use e.g. as many times as you can! (e.g. e.g.) If you use e.g. more than ten times in a single post, you will get an invite to Guido's next birthday party; where you'll be forced to do shots whist walking the balcony railing wearing wooden shoes! I lolled about this one, e.g. I laughed out loud. But where are the tulips and windmills for extra credit? Greetings from a Dutchman! Is partial credit available for part-Dutch people, e.g. those with at least two grandparents from Holland? (Couldn't resist sticking an e.g. in there, even though I know it's just feeding the troll...) Irmen, you definitely get bonus points for a .nl domain. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
I'd like to post a detailed response, e.g. a point-by-point engagement with Rantingrick's list, but as I lack time, this will have to suffice: http://xkcd.com/386/ There! Can I get my community pin now? :-) -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Aug 14, 12:57 am, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: 9. Never use the word previously or the phrase in the past; just dumb it down with used to. I had forgot to mention one other usage of used to: WRONG: I used to not like indention but know i am very used to it RIGHT: Previously i lamented forced indentation but i have since grown quite accustomed to it Also the usage of supposed to is rather foolish. WRONG: We are supposed to write clean code but i am not used to that RIGHT: We are required to write clean code however i am not accustom to that way of thinking. Gawd, sometimes i feel like i'm watching an episode of squidbillies when i read the this list. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 6:21 PM, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: WRONG: We are supposed to write clean code but i am not used to that RIGHT: We are required to write clean code however i am not accustom to that way of thinking. Since when are we required to write clean code? If I write unclean code (that's code with an undivided hoof, if you're Jewish), or if I don't write code at all, will I be kicked from the group? I think you need to start a blog, Rick. You'd be easier to ignore. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 08/14/2011 12:38 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 6:21 PM, rantingrickrantingr...@gmail.com wrote: WRONG: We are supposed to write clean code but i am not used to that RIGHT: We are required to write clean code however i am not accustom to that way of thinking. Since when are we required to write clean code? If I write unclean code (that's code with an undivided hoof, if you're Jewish), or if I don't write code at all, will I be kicked from the group? Any time your code sends Spam or is a resource hog, it would be unclean by both Jewish and Muslim anti-porcine standards :) I think you need to start a blog, Rick. You'd be easier to ignore. +1 QOTW -tkc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
Chris Angelico wrote: I lolled about this one, e.g. I laughed out loud. But where are the tulips and windmills for extra credit? Greetings from a Dutchman! Is partial credit available for part-Dutch people, e.g. those with at least two grandparents from Holland? ... do we get extra credit for having our own shoes... my pair are official (e.g. hand-carved in Holland, with little windmills wood-burned on the bow... ) ... mine also have lambs wool lining... don't know it that adds anything official, but they sure feel great! kind r'gards, -- m harris FSF ...free as in freedom/ http://webpages.charter.net/harrismh777/gnulinux/gnulinux.htm -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, rantingrick wrote: On Aug 14, 12:57 am, rantingrickrantingr...@gmail.com wrote: 9. Never use the word previously or the phrase in the past; just dumb it down with used to. I had forgot to mention one other usage of used to: WRONG: I used to not like indention but know i am very used to it RIGHT: Previously i lamented forced indentation but i have since grown quite accustomed to it Also the usage of supposed to is rather foolish. WRONG: We are supposed to write clean code but i am not used to that RIGHT: We are required to write clean code however i am not accustom to that way of thinking. Gawd, sometimes i feel like i'm watching an episode of squidbillies when i read the this list. Interesting that when you complain about other's grammatical typos, you're so careless with your own. know - now i - I accustom - accustomed the this - this I'm inclined to ignore typos in emails except in the case where the intent is to abuse others. DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Dave Angel da...@ieee.org wrote: I'm inclined to ignore typos in emails except in the case where the intent is to abuse others. +1 QOTW. It is, however, a well-known tradition that spelling/grammar flames should contain one spelling/grammer error. Oh, I just did it myself, didn't I. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
Chris Angelico wrote: I think you need to start a blog, Rick. You'd be easier to ignore. And yet, here you are, engaging him in conversation and feeding him the attention he craves :( -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Aug 14, 5:01 pm, Dave Angel da...@ieee.org wrote: Interesting that when you complain about other's grammatical typos, you're so careless with your own. know - now i - I accustom - accustomed the this - this I'm inclined to ignore typos in emails except in the case where the intent is to abuse others. My intent is NOT to abuse, but to enlighten. And you need to look up the definition of typo because i am not complaining about typos. Typos are accidents. Even the best of us suffer from accidents. What i AM complaining about is the adoption of a collectively foolish consistency. Used to and supposed to is the verbiage of children and idiots. I am trying to break these people out of such foolish loops. You should be thanking me instead of trolling my posts. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On Aug 14, 7:56 pm, Steven D'Aprano steve +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: Chris Angelico wrote: I think you need to start a blog, Rick. You'd be easier to ignore. And yet, here you are, engaging him in conversation and feeding him the attention he craves :( Yes, Steven loves rule # 2. Second only to the strawmen armies he has built. Kurtz: What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
I can't tell which comments are sarcastic On Aug 14, 2011, at 18:35, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 14, 5:01 pm, Dave Angel da...@ieee.org wrote: Interesting that when you complain about other's grammatical typos, you're so careless with your own. know - now i - I accustom - accustomed the this - this I'm inclined to ignore typos in emails except in the case where the intent is to abuse others. My intent is NOT to abuse, but to enlighten. And you need to look up the definition of typo because i am not complaining about typos. Typos are accidents. Even the best of us suffer from accidents. What i AM complaining about is the adoption of a collectively foolish consistency. Used to and supposed to is the verbiage of children and idiots. I am trying to break these people out of such foolish loops. You should be thanking me instead of trolling my posts. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ten rules to becoming a Python community member.
On 2011-08-15, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: And yet, here you are, engaging him in conversation and feeding him the attention he craves :( Many cultures have a tradition of almsgiving. -s -- Copyright 2011, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nos...@seebs.net http://www.seebs.net/log/ -- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) -- get educated! I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
